Author Topic: U.S. National Debt Clock  (Read 8021 times)

Tapeworm

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2014, 07:55:24 AM »
fixed

Hard to say which war he was a bigger ass in!

Irongrip400

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2014, 08:17:05 AM »
Hard to say which war he was a bigger ass in!

YEs, the Dardanelles was a complete fiasco.

Viking11

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2014, 08:48:46 AM »
In the late 90s we actually developed a surplus under Clinton. Had we kept going that direction, we might have whittled 10 or 20% off that debt figure by now.

syntaxmachine

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2014, 03:21:55 AM »
Yes.  Actual democracy instead of representation.  Direct vote online.  Transitioning toward that would see today's disinterested consent and party line support give way to political engagement and savvy interpretation.  

You've intuited a line of reasoning that is convincing to some: since, for any given individual, their vote doesn't matter, it isn't rational for that individual to pay attention to political issues that they have literally no control over. Why expend the effort to become knowledgeable when nothing you do matters? Conversely, people would be incentivized to reduce their ignorance in the event of a political system where their votes really did matter. So, installing such a system would reduce ignorance due to changed incentives.

There's some evidence from US states that have mechanisms for direct democracy that the outcome would be a proliferation of inefficacious policies combined with about as much ignorance as before -- California, for example.

Further, is it reasonable to demand of the average citizen that they know the fine-grained details of a wide variety of policy debates? Should the average dude be expected to cast an informed vote on whether the US should deactivate the 5th Fleet -- thus saving the US something like $60 billion a year -- and calculate the probability that Iran won't use its asymmetric naval capabilities to close the Strait of Hormuz and thus stymy the flow of oil there, one of a million substantive issues facing policymakers on a daily basis?

I think that it isn't fair (nor reasonable) to expect such knowledge of the average guy toiling away to put food on his family (as Bushy would say). I think that punting such issues off to the common man would lead to even crazier policies out of the world hegemon than we currently see.

What you?

Mr.1derful

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2014, 03:55:39 AM »
In the late 90s we actually developed a surplus under Clinton. Had we kept going that direction, we might have whittled 10 or 20% off that debt figure by now.

The so called "surplus" under Clinton is a fallacy.

Tapeworm

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2014, 07:47:34 AM »
You've intuited a line of reasoning that is convincing to some: since, for any given individual, their vote doesn't matter, it isn't rational for that individual to pay attention to political issues that they have literally no control over. Why expend the effort to become knowledgeable when nothing you do matters? Conversely, people would be incentivized to reduce their ignorance in the event of a political system where their votes really did matter. So, installing such a system would reduce ignorance due to changed incentives.

There's some evidence from US states that have mechanisms for direct democracy that the outcome would be a proliferation of inefficacious policies combined with about as much ignorance as before -- California, for example.

Further, is it reasonable to demand of the average citizen that they know the fine-grained details of a wide variety of policy debates? Should the average dude be expected to cast an informed vote on whether the US should deactivate the 5th Fleet -- thus saving the US something like $60 billion a year -- and calculate the probability that Iran won't use its asymmetric naval capabilities to close the Strait of Hormuz and thus stymy the flow of oil there, one of a million substantive issues facing policymakers on a daily basis?

I think that it isn't fair (nor reasonable) to expect such knowledge of the average guy toiling away to put food on his family (as Bushy would say). I think that punting such issues off to the common man would lead to even crazier policies out of the world hegemon than we currently see.

What you?

Haven't been to bed for awhile so indulge the retort from the rubber room here.

Key word being 'transition.'  It's expected that today's poorly informed and hilariously undereducated (g'day!) population aren't going to do it right.  What's second most shameful about political stewardship is that it has atrophied the acumen of the Average Joe.  Most shameful is the follow-on conclusion that Joe can't hack it past his surfy (!!) role in the feudal order.

Shit like national defence (nations as an antiquated notion being another topic) is the last thing that Joe gets to have his say on, many moons hence.  Proving grounds like local government is a good proving ground.  Absurdly small, even.  PTA votes.  Then municipal ordinances.  Township, county, state, etc.  Engagement vs apathy is the first battle.

I agree that there will always be realms of information that will be best interpreted by dedicated specialists, and I agree that no one can keep up to date with every issue and continue to make a living, but I can see a bobby slyish New Balance ordained when agenda guards aren't simply installed to oversee issues (like defence 'policy' and spending).  Major issues, about which there is overwhelming popular dissent, have been removed from people's hands.  If an elected rep proves to be full of shit then there should be an in-term means of popularly voting the guy out.  It should need a big %, but it should be possible by popular referendum.

And what's the deal with these Electoral Collegiates?  Stewards to select stewards?  In mule & farm time, maybe.  But this is classic gerrymandering.  Count the votes.  That's it.  Am I misunderstanding?

In ranting conclusion then, my fellow democophalluses, the scales are unbalanced.  I have no idea how to eliminate all the government decision makers, and gun-to-head I agree they should remain (selection process reviewed).  And I don't know when the magic transparancy of information would suddenly materialise, upon which the decision making process, along with the engaged intellect, depends, but I think there's be a new market for it full of voters deciding for themselves what's bullshit and what isn't on a daily basis.

I'm tired now and still find it clear that there's a gulf between the will of the majority and the actions of those who 'act' on their behalf.  I'd like to see it addressed and I think there are ways to do it that wouldn't put the nation at risk while still invigorating the democratic spirit which has been purported to be the life-blood of the place.

pissant

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2014, 02:45:49 PM »
It's shocking how little we learn from history. We are on borrowed time. The crack-up boom will appear. Then in retrospect comments like this will seem like people lived in a dream world. Note that in Weimar Germany the money printing occurred several years prior to any significant inflation. This lead many to insist that the money printing didn't cause inflation and so became reason to keep doing it. Once the "fuel" started burning nothing could be done to stop it short of issuing a new currency back by hard assets. Prepare accordingly.

omg ur not informed at all. germany didnt borrow in its own currency it borrowed in other currencies which it was forced to pay back in those currencies. THERE HAS BEEN NO COUNTRY IN HISTORY THAT HAS BORROWED THIS MUCH MONEY IN ITS OWN GOD DAMN CURRENCY.

Let us say you borrow from your friend in a currency you control the printing and circulation of. WHO HAS THE POWER? The debtor or the creditor? Ill let you decide but its not hard to figure out.

Let me say again THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A HISTORICAL PRECEDENT FOR WHAT IS GOING ON.

T-REX007

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2014, 04:58:26 PM »
Never had a surplus under Clinton - it was the deficit where there was a surplus - that is the yearly debt, like your monthly credit card bill, if you pay $25 extra that month then you have a surplus, but still have a debt or an  OVER ALL  BALANCE that is still  owed -(the national debt), which is different than the deficit which everyone quotes about Clinton

jude2

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2014, 08:16:23 PM »
Who is this group of global elite people?

Roger Bacon

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2014, 08:23:50 PM »
Who is this group of global elite people?

Those who set the agenda that our elected leaders are following.

They're pushing amnesty for illegal immigrants for example, while that's clearly not in our countries best interest and the majority opposes it.

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2014, 08:28:27 PM »
No. It's mathematically impossible. That's just the debt they show you. Count in unfunded liabilities and the debt is anywhere between 70 and 100 TRILLION. Yes, TRILLION. It will never be paid off. Global currency reset is the only answer...or a crash.

LOLOLOLOL.... more deluded than a NeBrew enjoying himself on a CarnivalSlaveShip.

Viking11

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2014, 03:36:10 PM »
Never had a surplus under Clinton - it was the deficit where there was a surplus - that is the yearly debt, like your monthly credit card bill, if you pay $25 extra that month then you have a surplus, but still have a debt or an  OVER ALL  BALANCE that is still  owed -(the national debt), which is different than the deficit which everyone quotes about Clinton


It was a BUDGET surplus.  The deficit cant be a surplus by definition. It started decreasing, but never had a chance to get anywhere near zero.


loco

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Re: U.S. National Debt Clock
« Reply #63 on: September 19, 2014, 06:25:38 AM »
Crash has been predicted since 2008, not happening as yet. Another mystery.

There was a stock market crash in 1987 and in 1989, a recession 1990 and in 1991, a near financial crisis in 1998, a recession in 2000, a financial crisis in 2008, a Flash Crash in 2010.

I can predict with 100% accuracy that one of the above will most certainly repeat in the near future.  There will be crashes, recessions and financial crisis in the future, followed by periods of prosperity.  Mark my words.

El Profeta