Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Wolfox on April 14, 2014, 10:40:14 PM
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Coach knows a lot of professional bodybuilders and their cycles.
After he made comments about the stack posted by BFG being unnecessary I asked that he share with the forum what a real PRO takes.
Coach, the thread is all yours.
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Wolfox ready to make an ass of himself. You're calling me out and no one else why? lol Go for it.
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Hello??
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Wolfox ready to make an ass of himself. You're calling me out and no one else why? lol Go for it.
I seriously respect you Coach. I simply want you to share with the forum your knowledge.
People here could benefit health wise.
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Hello??
Hi!!
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I seriously respect you Coach. I simply want you to share with the forum your knowledge.
People here could benefit health wise.
First, the stack that posted. Who's was it? We will start there.
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Lets just assume its a top 3 guy at that show. 230lbs or so 5'6-5'7.
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Lets just assume its a top 3 guy at that show. 230lbs or so 5'6-5'7.
When I work with someone I NEVER deal in assumptions. Who exactly was it.
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When I work with someone I NEVER deal in assumptions. Who exactly was it.
It wouldn't be smart to name names.
Just give an example of a stack you know of that a pro used to get ready for competition. Pull from your knowledge.
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(http://oi61.tinypic.com/20hptt5.jpg)
wolfox looking like a real g in that pic
all creatine and Ugandan sperm
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Its amazing how supposedly two different people can be as equally pathetic.
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You've got to pay Coach to get an answer. He doesn't work for free.
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You've got to pay Coach to get an answer. He doesn't work for free.
he doesn't want an answer
he wants the attention
its all he cares about
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he doesn't want an answer
he wants the attention
its all he cares about
I think he may be my least favourite poster.
His Pms to me last night were cringeworthy.
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I think he may be my least favourite poster.
His Pms to me last night were cringeworthy.
was he trying to get my personal info by any chance
that's what he has been sending everyone else
normally im flattered when im so deep in someones head they stalk me on here
with him its just embarrassing
he used to beg me to be his friend via pm :-\
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was he trying to get my personal info by any chance
that's what he has been sending everyone else
normally im flattered when im so deep in someones head they stalk me on here
with him its just embarrassing
he used to beg me to be his friend via pm :-\
Now now peace offering, back in your box you go.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=268609.0;attach=307898;image)
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was he trying to get my personal info by any chance
that's what he has been sending everyone else
normally im flattered when im so deep in someones head they stalk me on here
with him its just embarrassing
he used to beg me to be his friend via pm :-\
No, he just begged me to leave him alone on the forum and that there were people behind the avatars who might get upset.
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Lol.
coach is a legit dude.
well respected, top notch clients.
I cant understand why he wouldn't spill the beans on AAS use and cycles to wolfox?
It would be of great benefit to Joe to talk thoroughly about illegal narcotic use, considering he isnt hiding behind anonymity.
Is this really wolfox, or is it just for the lulz?
(http://oi61.tinypic.com/20hptt5.jpg)
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Lol.
coach is a legit dude.
well respected, top notch clients.
I cant understand why he wouldn't spill the beans on AAS use and cycles to wolfox?
It would be of great benefit to Joe to talk thoroughly about illegal narcotic use, considering he isnt hiding behind anonymity.
Is this really wolfox, or is it just for the lulz?
(http://oi61.tinypic.com/20hptt5.jpg)
::)
Asked Fatmc to post the source of that photo but he still hasn't.
Just some random tongan dude pulled from google images search.
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::)
Asked Fatmc to post the source of that photo but he still hasn't.
Just some random tongan dude pulled from google images search.
and it just happens to have your handle on it?
that is not the product of photoshop trickery.
it looks legit
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Coach has been open about his drug usage. I'm not asking for his cycle tho... i'm asking for one of his many pro friends' cycle.
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and it just happens to have your handle on it?
that is not the product of photoshop trickery.
it looks legit
:P
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and it just happens to have your handle on it?
that is not the product of photoshop trickery.
it looks legit
yeah its him
to be fair he is a genuine gangster
his mommy lets him pretend they are on drive byes
when she takes him on play dates
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coach does know a few things about strength and conditioning I have to give him that, but he does not know shit about competitive bodybuilding drug cycles.
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Coach has been open about his drug usage. I'm not asking for his cycle tho... i'm asking for one of his many pro friends' cycle.
I have no problem giving my drug cycle, are you ready?
1/2cc Prop once a week.
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Don`t waste your time Joe.
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coach does know a few things about strength and conditioning I have to give him that, but he does not know shit about competitive bodybuilding drug cycles.
I wouldn't say I don't know shit about it, I will say I know more about training than drugs and I'm ok with that. I also know you don't need all that was listed in that ridiculous cycle that was posted.
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Don`t waste your time Joe.
You're right. I've wasted too much time on this thread that has already backfired on wolfox.
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I also know you don't need all that was listed in that ridiculous cycle that was posted.
Okay, I have to say something here. What do you mean by need? Need for WHAT?
Take a look at Justin Compton at the Orlando. Do you disagree that you need a shitlod of drugs to look like this guy? Look at the animalistic beef, look at his fucked up face. Look how much he has grown in the last few years.
It's one thing to say you don't need all those drugs BFG listed to look good, but to look like this guy, to win pro shows is something else. Yes he may look like shit to you but that is beside the point.
Compare him to you your "below 1 gram, insulin and gh free" physique. I think it was a damn shame you did such a balonie cycle for that show you did because you could have won the whole damn show otherwise... would have been a fine way to exit the sport.
Please tell us how many drugs a Justin Compton type needs to look like this. Please tell us this is possible without any insulin, gh and with just a few hundred mg's of roids. ::)
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Much rather look like Joe.
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I have no problem giving my drug cycle, are you ready?
1/2cc Prop once a week.
did you stop taking Deca?
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did you stop taking Deca?
yes...for now.
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I have no problem giving my drug cycle, are you ready?
1/2cc Prop once a week.
Would you not be better off with Enanthate?
Prop is in and out with a spike.
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Okay, I have to say something here. What do you mean by need? Need for WHAT?
Take a look at Justin Compton at the Orlando. Do you disagree that you need a shitlod of drugs to look like this guy? Look at the animalistic beef, look at his fucked up face. Look how much he has grown in the last few years.
It's one thing to say you don't need all those drugs BFG listed to look good, but to look like this guy, to win pro shows is something else. Yes he may look like shit to you but that is beside the point.
Compare him to you your "below 1 gram, insulin and gh free" physique. I think it was a damn shame you did such a balonie cycle for that show you did because you could have won the whole damn show otherwise... would have been a fine way to exit the sport.
Please tell us how many drugs a Justin Compton type needs to look like this. Please tell us this is possible without any insulin, gh and with just a few hundred mg's of roids. ::)
Please..tell me more about GH/insulin?
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If you cut the cycle BFG posted in half it wouldn't make a noticeable difference come show day.
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Tell me more about the need for GH/Insulin....
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Tell me more about the need for GH/Insulin....
serge looks phenomenal
what do you reckon he was on
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serge looks phenomenal
what do you reckon he was on
Would have to assume no where near 5000mg of anything. lol
The difference was bodybuilders actually trained back then. It meant something.
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Would have to assume no where near 5000mg of anything. lol
The difference was bodybuilders actually trained back then. It meant something.
he looked great well into his fifties too
probably wasn't on more than a gram hard to say
I agree with you that gh and insulin abuse have fucked the sport up
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Why anyone would want to fuck with insulin is beyond me. Talk about fucking up your metabolic pathways!!
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Please..tell me more about GH/insulin?
The argument isn't whether Beckles or Nubret looked good, they obviously fucking did. You said
today's bodybuilders are doing more than they need... or that the stack BFG posted isn't needed. You said it. So I take it you mean these guys like Compton could put on that 50-60lbs of lbm they have over Nubret by doing way less than what was posted by BFG. But we both know the extra size is completely drug dependent so your comments on that stack were completely USELESS and false.
So what exactly was the point you were arguing over, since you obviously disagreed with BFG (yet know better)?! Tell us. How much would you guess Compton takes... how "little" could he take and still look like that? That BFG tack isn't needed so tell us how much he "needs".
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The difference was bodybuilders actually trained back then. It meant something.
Bullshit. You know I started reading bb mags in the 80s. I particularly remember an article about some Swedish amateur bodybuilders going over to Venice to find the "secrets" of the pros. Know what all the pros told them? They all said it's all about diet and supplements, you could train in whatever way you wished, it didn't matter much.
Plenty of guys train hard today, plenty of guys push hard year round, eating on the clock, training and drugging heavy year round. Many of those fantastic looking old-school bodybuilders took time off, smoked weed, rec drugged and chased bitches between shows. I doubt it was any more hardcore back then (even in the gym).
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he looked great well into his fifties too
probably wasn't on more than a gram hard to say
I agree with you that gh and insulin abuse have fucked the sport up
Here he is at 70
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Okay, I have to say something here. What do you mean by need? Need for WHAT?
Take a look at Justin Compton at the Orlando. Do you disagree that you need a shitlod of drugs to look like this guy? Look at the animalistic beef, look at his fucked up face. Look how much he has grown in the last few years.
It's one thing to say you don't need all those drugs BFG listed to look good, but to look like this guy, to win pro shows is something else. Yes he may look like shit to you but that is beside the point.
Compare him to you your "below 1 gram, insulin and gh free" physique. I think it was a damn shame you did such a balonie cycle for that show you did because you could have won the whole damn show otherwise... would have been a fine way to exit the sport.
Please tell us how many drugs a Justin Compton type needs to look like this. Please tell us this is possible without any insulin, gh and with just a few hundred mg's of roids. ::)
Best poster on getbig. Finally someone who gets it.
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Why anyone would want to fuck with insulin is beyond me. Talk about fucking up your metabolic pathways!!
Yet you praise that Berardi guy who believes in jacking up insulin around certain times. Whether exogenous or endogenous, it's still insulin. Lots of insulin may lead to a less than desirable look but insulin isn't inherently evil, that's ridiculous.
Tell us how taking some insulin before workouts, like your nemesis Milos recommends, fucks up your metabolic pathways. Milos basically recommended a low- or zero carb diet except around workouts... so you jack up your insulin for 2 hours a day if you train once. Will that fuck up your pathways?
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Here he is at 70
Ironically he was probably on gh and insulin at 70 years old. Didn't he go into a hypoglycemic coma before he died?
If you cut the cycle BFG posted in half it wouldn't make a noticeable difference come show day.
So half would still be needed? That's your take on it? Half is still a lot, several grams, especially the orals would still be plenty high. Would 3iu of Humatrope be just as good as the 6iu he wrote out? GH peaks at 3iu? I don't think so.
I agree that the effect of steroids taper off dramatically after a certain point, but more is still more and could still account for a few pounds come show day and the guys try to get every edge they can.
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The argument isn't whether Beckles or Nubret looked good, they obviously fucking did. You said
today's bodybuilders are doing more than they need... or that the stack BFG posted isn't needed. You said it. So I take it you mean these guys like Compton could put on that 50-60lbs of lbm they have over Nubret by doing way less than what was posted by BFG. But we both know the extra size is completely drug dependent so your comments on that stack were completely USELESS and false.
So what exactly was the point you were arguing over, since you obviously disagreed with BFG (yet know better)?! Tell us. How much would you guess Compton takes... how "little" could he take and still look like that? That BFG tack isn't needed so tell us how much he "needs".
Its like everyone else is illiterate but me and Van.
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Basically, I'd like for Coach to tell us in approximate terms how much gear an average pro "needs" today to win shows. He came arguing in several threads saying BFG's cycle was ridiculous and not needed, and now he says insulin and GH isn't needed. He really needs to elaborate here.
Hey Coach, look what your hero Berardi says about insulin. You praised this guy many times here.
[ Q ] You've written a lot about post-workout nutrition. How important is it to take advantage of insulin post workout?
It depends on your goals. For starters, just so that everyone is up to speed, insulin plays important roles in both carbohydrate and amino acid uptake across the muscle cell membranes as well as acts as a key signaling molecule to stimulate protein synthesis.
The insulin signaling pathway is an elegant one because once the insulin molecule binds to the cell membrane, it sets in motion two different chemical messenger systems that accomplish three goals:
This system increases transcription (RNA formation)
Increases glucose uptake into the cell
Increases the translation of the cellular RNA into protein. Although there are other pathways that stimulate translation of RNA into protein, the insulin pathway is one of the most important nutritional ones.
I hope it's clear, therefore, that insulin plays a critical role in post-workout recovery of protein balance. Now, whether or not we need a HUGE insulin burst depends on our goals. If someone is interested in maximum growth and recovery, lots of carbohydrate, protein and insulin should flood the body immediately after a workout.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maki12.htm
Oh no, the guy you look up to is fucking up bodybuilders' metabolic pathways. ::)
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Ironically he was probably on gh and insulin at 70 years old. Didn't he go into a hypoglycemic coma before he died?
So half would still be needed? That's your take on it? Half is still a lot, several grams, especially the orals would still be plenty high. Would 3iu of Humatrope be just as good as the 6iu he wrote out? GH peaks at 3iu? I don't think so.
I agree that the effect of steroids taper off dramatically after a certain point, but more is still more and could still account for a few pounds come show day and the guys try to get every edge they can.
Not sure, I once tripled my dosage 5 weeks out from a show and upped my calories by a third, net gain = 2lb weight gain and slight increase in hardness, that could have been the additional cals.
I think once you are on severely reduced cals the amount of gear doesnt really make much of a difference.
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this fucking tool wolfox needs to be banned- not 'timed out'. like gonzo forever. brings nothing to the board. as useless here as he is in real life.
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We bust his balls on here but Joe is a pretty solid guy. I trust what he says.
Joe, looking forward to an awkward Socal meetup at your gym.
Damn I'm glad to be back in Socal 8)
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We bust his balls on here but Joe is a pretty solid guy. I trust what he says.
Joe, looking forward to an awkward Socal meetup at your gym.
Damn I'm glad to be back in Socal 8)
translation: can we hang out?! be my friend! can i be cool too?!
hahahaha what a gimp.
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this fucking tool wolfox needs to be banned- not 'timed out'. like gonzo forever. brings nothing to the board. as useless here as he is in real life.
You havent recieved his grovelling PMs yet?
Guy is a total loser, he begged me to not attack him in threads.
Hes got his wish though, I just dont respond to him at all now.
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This is true. I read an interview w/ Scott Wilson who was a top 70s and early to mid 80s pro, where he said he and others would only train three or four months a year and still win shows. That would never happen today.
Levrone was known to do just that , only a few months maybe even less to get ready for the O and still place top 5 and a handful of 2nd place finishes
Phil seems to be doing that as well, off season looks nothing impressive prob barely trains "hard" at all and contest time Boom!!
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The argument isn't whether Beckles or Nubret looked good, they obviously fucking did. You said
today's bodybuilders are doing more than they need... or that the stack BFG posted isn't needed. You said it. So I take it you mean these guys like Compton could put on that 50-60lbs of lbm they have over Nubret by doing way less than what was posted by BFG. But we both know the extra size is completely drug dependent so your comments on that stack were completely USELESS and false.
So what exactly was the point you were arguing over, since you obviously disagreed with BFG (yet know better)?! Tell us. How much would you guess Compton takes... how "little" could he take and still look like that? That BFG tack isn't needed so tell us how much he "needs".
Haha good post 8)
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I guess Coach doesn't want to elaborate. He knows damn well you need heavy use to do anything in the pros today. You need GH and insulin to reach those bodyweights, there is no way around it. His personal aesthetic preference for the smaller, less lean guys of yesteryear has nothing to do with this argument.
Not sure, I once tripled my dosage 5 weeks out from a show and upped my calories by a third, net gain = 2lb weight gain and slight increase in hardness, that could have been the additional cals.
I think once you are on severely reduced cals the amount of gear doesnt really make much of a difference.
Did you used to use thyroid hormones? What about GH?
Thyroid is catabolic and the cycle BFG posted had very high T3 doses (though I suspect the T4/T3 doses were switched by mistake by BFG). Thyroid hormones, GH and size of the competitor affect how much is useful. I personally think the heavy use is most beneficial pre-contest. Not just due to the catabolism but also the jacked, veiny look it gives. Very heavy tren and anadrol definitely gives you a different look in the last few weeks even if there is no new protein synthesis going on.
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I guess Coach doesn't want to elaborate. He knows damn well you need heavy use to do anything in the pros today. You need GH and insulin to reach those bodyweights, there is no way around it. His personal aesthetic preference for the smaller, less lean guys of yesteryear has nothing to do with this argument.
Did you used to use thyroid hormones? What about GH?
Thyroid is catabolic and the cycle BFG posted had very high T3 doses (though I suspect the T4/T3 doses were switched by mistake by BFG). Thyroid hormones, GH and size of the competitor affect how much is useful. I personally think the heavy use is most beneficial pre-contest. Not just due to the catabolism but also the jacked, veiny look it gives. Very heavy tren and anadrol definitely gives you a different look in the last few weeks even if there is no new protein synthesis going on.
No, I never use thyroid hormones, its cheating. ;D
No GH either.
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Its amazing how supposedly two different people can be as equally pathetic.
How is it possible?
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LOL @ Coach ducking the original question. :D
What do pics of old school BB's have to do with what was originally asked? ???
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I guess Coach doesn't want to elaborate. He knows damn well you need heavy use to do anything in the pros today. You need GH and insulin to reach those bodyweights, there is no way around it. His personal aesthetic preference for the smaller, less lean guys of yesteryear has nothing to do with this argument.
Did you used to use thyroid hormones? What about GH?
Thyroid is catabolic and the cycle BFG posted had very high T3 doses (though I suspect the T4/T3 doses were switched by mistake by BFG). Thyroid hormones, GH and size of the competitor affect how much is useful. I personally think the heavy use is most beneficial pre-contest. Not just due to the catabolism but also the jacked, veiny look it gives. Very heavy tren and anadrol definitely gives you a different look in the last few weeks even if there is no new protein synthesis going on.
if i dont remember wrong he went from like 500mg and tripled it to 1500mcg for 5 weeks (correct me if im wrong simon). he never trieda couple of grams for a longer period. for me it def was a big deal going from my ordinary 750mg to 2500 and i did it for 15 weeks to. big difference
,
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LOL @ Coach ducking the original question. :D
What do pics of old school BB's have to do with what was originally asked? ???
he always does that.
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Any trainer who specifies one of his client's "stacks" is taking a big risk and is violating his client's privacy.
Coach has been in the industry for a long time. Why do people here feel some sort of entitlement to knowing what we/he knows about competitors drug usage.
Why do people care? Why don't you ask: What bodybuilders in your gym are abusing pain killers and snorting Coke (a ~ Cola) daily?
We know why. Because they figure if they do the exact same thing that Shawn Rhoden is doing, they will look like him... unless, of course, they are Caucasian.
Stupid questions, all the time, every day... gotta stay consistent I guess.
Until steroids and other bodybuilding Pharma become legal, the answers to these questions are never going to be accurately addressed.
So.....
Stop asking?
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Any trainer who specifies one of his client's "stacks" is taking a big risk and is violating his client's privacy.
Coach has been in the industry for a long time. Why do people here feel some sort of entitlement to knowing what we/he knows about competitors drug usage.
Why do people care? Why don't you ask: What bodybuilders in your gym are abusing pain killers and snorting Coke (a ~ Cola) daily?
We know why. Because they figure if they do the exact same thing that Shawn Rhoden is doing, they will look like him... unless, of course, they are Caucasian.
Stupid questions, all the time, every day... gotta stay consistent I guess.
Until steroids and other bodybuilding Pharma become legal, the answers to these questions are never going to be accurately addressed.
So.....
Stop asking?
reminds me of when i started with roids we all tought that the pros had some secret roid/stuff that made them so big, we never heard of better genetic response to roids and average joe. It was so more mystified (ia that a word?) Theb it is now with the boards und dat der net
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Any trainer who specifies one of his client's "stacks" is taking a big risk and is violating his client's privacy.
Coach has been in the industry for a long time. Why do people here feel some sort of entitlement to knowing what we/he knows about competitors drug usage.
Why do people care? Why don't you ask: What bodybuilders in your gym are abusing pain killers and snorting Coke (a ~ Cola) daily?
We know why. Because they figure if they do the exact same thing that Shawn Rhoden is doing, they will look like him... unless, of course, they are Caucasian.
Stupid questions, all the time, every day... gotta stay consistent I guess.
Until steroids and other bodybuilding Pharma become legal, the answers to these questions are never going to be accurately addressed.
So.....
Stop asking?
What is this bullshit? He can answer in general terms. No one is asking for any specifics.
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I guess Coach doesn't want to elaborate. He knows damn well you need heavy use to do anything in the pros today. You need GH and insulin to reach those bodyweights, there is no way around it. His personal aesthetic preference for the smaller, less lean guys of yesteryear has nothing to do with this argument.
Did you used to use thyroid hormones? What about GH?
Thyroid is catabolic and the cycle BFG posted had very high T3 doses (though I suspect the T4/T3 doses were switched by mistake by BFG). Thyroid hormones, GH and size of the competitor affect how much is useful. I personally think the heavy use is most beneficial pre-contest. Not just due to the catabolism but also the jacked, veiny look it gives. Very heavy tren and anadrol definitely gives you a different look in the last few weeks even if there is no new protein synthesis going on.
imo heaviest use would be most beneficial post contest.
you dont need a lot of drugs to create the look, and your not going to put on a lot of weight during your prep by pounding your body like that unless the tissue is existing and your growing in.
post contest your body is dying to grow, the reuptake of nutrients and fluids prime the environment for growth. couple that with the increases in poundages the water and glycogen bring, running heavier courses immediately after rather then during just makes better use of your mg's for the reasons i stated above.
whats the heaviest you have gone mg wise and what compounds did you do, and what weight were you at at that time, and bf level?
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he always does that.
I'm going to answer this first by saying bullshit, if I don't answer or come back to a thread it's because either I forgot about it or it wasn't worth the time. I have over 21000 posts from this account only, you think I'm really going to take time to respond to all of that? That being said, this was worth coming back to.
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LOL @ Coach ducking the original question. :D
What do pics of old school BB's have to do with what was originally asked? ???
I have my kid and over 100 other kids that I coach on spring break right now. I didn't duck shit. I have a life.
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I have known several pros over the years and have seen exactly what each one of them uses for a cycle. I can tell you two things that you won't believe. The person that used the least (that I know personally) was Paul Baker. And he weighed over 300lbs with abs off season. Unfortunately he always seemed to weigh 298 on the day of the show and could never come in with great conditioning and really ripped. The person that used the most (out of everyone I know) was that fucking Kenny Jones. Many that dude was a damn chemical wasteland and never made it to the top 10 in any contest I don't think. Never weighed over 190 I bet.
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Okay, I have to say something here. What do you mean by need? Need for WHAT?
Take a look at Justin Compton at the Orlando. Do you disagree that you need a shitlod of drugs to look like this guy? Look at the animalistic beef, look at his fucked up face. Look how much he has grown in the last few years.
I know very little of this Compton dude. Is he taking a shit load, probably. I don't even know if he's a pro or not. I don't keep up with bodybuilding that much. What's his weight? Show a front shot or even the mandatories.
It's one thing to say you don't need all those drugs BFG listed to look good, but to look like this guy, to win pro shows is something else. Yes he may look like shit to you but that is beside the point.
Compare him to you your "below 1 gram, insulin and gh free" physique. I think it was a damn shame you did such a balonie cycle for that show you did because you could have won the whole damn show otherwise... would have been a fine way to exit the sport.
The first of my ass was from the night show. I probably gained a good 8lbs from the time I came off stage from the pre-judging until the night show. I placed 6th which means I wasn't called out for the night show comparisons. Much better in the morning. I'm not making excuses because whats done is done, I have no regrets and haven't competed in 18 years prior to that show. It's sad when you have to make comparisons on conditioning based on my ass (or anyone else's) One of the first bodybuilders to show striations in his ass was my old training partner Renel Janvier..again, no insulin, no GH.
Please tell us how many drugs a Justin Compton type needs to look like this. Please tell us this is possible without any insulin, gh and with just a few hundred mg's of roids. ::)
Who the hell knows except him, his trainer and maybe a few close friends.
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I have known several pros over the years and have seen exactly what each one of them uses for a cycle. I can tell you two things that you won't believe. The person that used the least (that I know personally) was Paul Baker. And he weighed over 300lbs with abs off season. Unfortunately he always seemed to weigh 298 on the day of the show and could never come in with great conditioning and really ripped. The person that used the most (out of everyone I know) was that fucking Kenny Jones. Many that dude was a damn chemical wasteland and never made it to the top 10 in any contest I don't think. Never weighed over 190 I bet.
(http://gallery.rxmuscle.com/newgallery/DSC_7966_UWDJWPJUZN.jpg)
(http://www.ifbbpro.com/wp-content/uploads/image/2008/results/ironman_paulbaker.jpg)
Faces to the names.
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my old training partner Renel Janvier.
now that guy could get in condition.
(http://www.vucutcu.com/anasite/Renel_Janvier.jpg)
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The argument isn't whether Beckles or Nubret looked good, they obviously fucking did. You said
today's bodybuilders are doing more than they need... or that the stack BFG posted isn't needed. You said it. So I take it you mean these guys like Compton could put on that 50-60lbs of lbm they have over Nubret by doing way less than what was posted by BFG. But we both know the extra size is completely drug dependent so your comments on that stack were completely USELESS and false.
So what exactly was the point you were arguing over, since you obviously disagreed with BFG (yet know better)?! Tell us. How much would you guess Compton takes... how "little" could he take and still look like that? That BFG tack isn't needed so tell us how much he "needs".
If that cycle was any indication of what everyone is doing then I will conclude that no, you don't need that much. How much do you need? I don't know and it will vary from person to person on they're wanting to achieve. As far as the extra size being completely drug dependent, I'll answer that in the post where you said it was bullshit that they don't train hard.
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Bullshit. You know I started reading bb mags in the 80s. I particularly remember an article about some Swedish amateur bodybuilders going over to Venice to find the "secrets" of the pros. Know what all the pros told them? They all said it's all about diet and supplements, you could train in whatever way you wished, it didn't matter much.
Ok, here's where we separate reading muscle magazines from reality. You forget what era I grew in (again, started training at 12) who I trained with and who my mentors were (in bodybuilding). I'm not going to say that EVERYONE trained hard but the majority did. Training came first, not the drugs. I do see the bodybuilders that train hard now, the ones who barely break a sweat and the ones, now in the days of social media, train for the cameras. I remember the last time I went to Golds in Venice in 07', I saw Robbie training hard and the most of the other pros barely breaking a sweat, taking time between sets, on their phones, etc. I dunno, maybe Robbie was having a good day and the rest just wanted to fuck around. When I see Cutler train in person and in some video clips, it's no different. No intensity, no real weight, in the gym (like most) for maybe :45 inefficient minutes. On the other hand, one of my pro friends trains his ass off. Hard and with intensity...the way it should be. Just because someone is on a ton of gear doesn't mean they back off of training.
Plenty of guys train hard today, plenty of guys push hard year round, eating on the clock, training and drugging heavy year round. Many of those fantastic looking old-school bodybuilders took time off, smoked weed, rec drugged and chased bitches between shows. I doubt it was any more hardcore back then (even in the gym).
Actually it was, we trained and that's what we came to the gym for. 6 days a week.
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Compare Anth Bailes training with Leroy (Dorians old training partner) to Jays back workout.
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I`ve got a PM right here on getbig from my old friend Chris Aceto who says to me in the PM......paraphrasing here a bit:
"Damn Tim,these guys today don`t train hard at all,they would have never lasted with us back in the day".
And as we all know,Aceto was a good bodybuilder himself,anfd trained tons of top name guys including Cutler.
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Compare Anth Bailes training with Leroy (Dorians old training partner) to Jays back workout.
how do you explain this?
cutler can get such a physique with pussy training ???
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I'm going to conclude with this.
I personally blame the judging system 100% of the standards of massive use of drugs in bodybuilding and not taking any interest in the well being of the actual competitive person and I'll give an example. It wasn't that many years ago that you were seeing big ass gh/insulin guts on a stage but now, IMO, because of the public out cry in the bodybuilding community (I would have to assume because of the day and age of gossip and opinion boards) the judging has changed somewhat and now you're seeing a little smaller and more aesthetic looking competitors. Unfortunately, it wasn't due to protecting the health of the competitor but rather keep the cash flow going.
Do I still think bodybuilding was better back in the 70's,80's and early 90's, yes because bodybuilding was literally about "sculpting", in other words, keeping your waist in check, separation and being flat out shredded. This Compton kid seems like a good bodybuilder, but what's missing? IMO, it's crisp separation. Straitions in glutes but none in upper back and shoulders?
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how do you explain this?
cutler can get such a physique with pussy training ???
Response to steroids, pure and simple.
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I`ve got a PM right here on getbig from my old friend Chris Aceto who says to me in the PM......paraphrasing here a bit:
"Damn Tim,these guys today don`t train hard at all,they would have never lasted with us back in the day".
And as we all know,Aceto was a good bodybuilder himself,anfd trained tons of top name guys including Cutler.
I've been saying this for years. When you see clips of say Platz training, that was no bullshit. He trained like that with or without the cameras. I can't tell you how many times Rory pushed me to point of puking and coming back to finish.
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I've been saying this for years. When you see clips of say Platz training, that was no bullshit. He trained like that with or without the cameras. I can't tell you how many times Rory pushed me to point of puking and coming back to finish.
Yup,we always trained balls out,each and every day.
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Yup,we always trained balls out,each and every day.
george farrah says that training too hard can damage the nervous system
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Yup,we always trained balls out,each and every day.
Basile approved.
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I'm going to conclude with this.
I personally blame the judging system 100% of the standards of massive use of drugs in bodybuilding and not taking any interest in the well being of the actual competitive person and I'll give an example. It wasn't that many years ago that you were seeing big ass gh/insulin guts on a stage but now, IMO, because of the public out cry in the bodybuilding community (I would have to assume because of the day and age of gossip and opinion boards) the judging has changed somewhat and now you're seeing a little smaller and more aesthetic looking competitors.
Do I still think bodybuilding was better back in the 70's,80's and early 90's, yes because bodybuilding was literally about "sculpting", in other words, keeping your waist in check, separation and being flat out shredded. This Compton kid seems like a good bodybuilder, but what's missing? IMO, it's crisp separation. Straitions in glutes but none in upper back and shoulders?
The lack of striated muscle today is astounding.
Even seperation is blurred on some guys.
How can a guys ass be striated,but he has no back density,cross striated triceps or quads,and smooth arms all on the same physique?
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george farrah says that training too hard can damage the nervous system
That's complete bullshit.
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george farrah says that training too hard can damage the nervous system
Pffffftttt
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The lack of striated muscle today is astounding.
Even seperation is blurred on some guys.
How can a guys ass be striated,but he has no back density,cross striated triceps or quads,and smooth arms all on the same physique?
GH/insulin.
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Basile approved.
:-X
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That's complete bullshit.
george farrah is a retired olympic bodybuilder and now trains the top olympians such as kai greene, dayana cadeau and more
who are you ???
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george farrah is a retired olympic bodybuilder and now trains the top olympians such as kai greene, dayana cadeau and more
who are you ???
What the fuck is an "olympic" bodybuilder?
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GH/insulin.
BINGO
I think insulin is more the culprit.
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What the fuck is an "olympic" bodybuilder?
one that does battle in thongs at mount olympia
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one that does battle in thongs at mount olympia
lol
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Van tore Coach a new one.
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Did someone just fart?
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Yet you praise that Berardi guy who believes in jacking up insulin around certain times. Whether exogenous or endogenous, it's still insulin. Lots of insulin may lead to a less than desirable look but insulin isn't inherently evil, that's ridiculous.
Jesus Van, I think we can all agree on that but not 20+ IU's above and beyond normal fucking production.
Tell us how taking some insulin before workouts, like your nemesis Milos recommends, fucks up your metabolic pathways. Milos basically recommended a low- or zero carb diet except around workouts... so you jack up your insulin for 2 hours a day if you train once. Will that fuck up your pathways?
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Did someone just fart?
it smells like a yeasty queef in this thread again.
i wonder what it is?
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Van tore Coach a new one.
I've concluded you don't belong in this conversation because of sheer stupidity.
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I've concluded you don't belong in this conversation because of lack of sheer stupidity.
Just being honest. Anyone who's read what you said can gather you lost again. I called you out and Van followed through and tore you a new one. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and even showed you respect but youre one of those dudes who doesn't think before they post and spouts off at the mouth.
You were a no show in this thread.
Stick to telling us more about pause squats in powerlifting comps, "coach".
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I've concluded you don't belong in this conversation because of sheer stupidity.
Agreed coach, this halfwit doesnt have a fucking clue what hes talking about.
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Okay, I have to say something here. What do you mean by need? Need for WHAT?
Take a look at Justin Compton at the Orlando. Do you disagree that you need a shitlod of drugs to look like this guy? Look at the animalistic beef, look at his fucked up face. Look how much he has grown in the last few years.
It's one thing to say you don't need all those drugs BFG listed to look good, but to look like this guy, to win pro shows is something else. Yes he may look like shit to you but that is beside the point.
Compare him to you your "below 1 gram, insulin and gh free" physique. I think it was a damn shame you did such a balonie cycle for that show you did because you could have won the whole damn show otherwise... would have been a fine way to exit the sport.
Please tell us how many drugs a Justin Compton type needs to look like this. Please tell us this is possible without any insulin, gh and with just a few hundred mg's of roids. ::)
Flawless victory for Van.
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imo heaviest use would be most beneficial post contest.
you dont need a lot of drugs to create the look, and your not going to put on a lot of weight during your prep by pounding your body like that unless the tissue is existing and your growing in.
post contest your body is dying to grow, the reuptake of nutrients and fluids prime the environment for growth. couple that with the increases in poundages the water and glycogen bring, running heavier courses immediately after rather then during just makes better use of your mg's for the reasons i stated above.
whats the heaviest you have gone mg wise and what compounds did you do, and what weight were you at at that time, and bf level?
Well, I think there is a difference between say 400mg tren and 100mg Anavar the last few weeks and a gram of tren and 200mg of Anadrol. There is a reason Anadrol loading is popular and oral use in general is often heavy in the end. It obviously differs between individuals but this is what I believe.
As for my use, it's sporadic and not well thought out. If I could compete and/or showcased my body in the clubs like you guys love to do I might take the bodybuilding aspect more serious. I have shitty genetics and disfiguring injuries so competition is out, but if I could compete I would even with crappy genetics and guaranteed poor placing since the pressure of competition will help you advance imo.
I take drugs for the strength aspect mostly. I haven't done a lot of heavy stuff but experimented with heavy test for example last summer when ESfitness talked about his injection schedules. For example I shot 12 amps of test in one go for the hell of it but could only handle a couple of weeks of that. Orals I have done heavy for a few weeks at a time, up to about 200 Anadrol and 100 Dbol for a few days before trying to break pr's for example. I usually weigh between 210 and 250, "fat" (haven't measured bf) at 5'10'' or 5'11''. Right now I do 500mg test and 1cc of tren every 10 days, with a dbol or Anadrol 3 times a week pre-workout.
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I`ve got a PM right here on getbig from my old friend Chris Aceto who says to me in the PM......paraphrasing here a bit:
"Damn Tim,these guys today don`t train hard at all,they would have never lasted with us back in the day".
And as we all know,Aceto was a good bodybuilder himself,anfd trained tons of top name guys including Cutler.
Ask him if Cutler trains hard... I GUARANTEE he will say, well Cutler is the exception, he trains very hard. :D
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Ask him if Cutler trains hard... I GUARANTEE he will say, well Cutler is the exception, he trains very hard. :D
It`s been a long time since he sent me that PM Van,I think he was just slumming. ;D
I really have no clue if he still posts on Palumbos board or not. ???
EDIT:
Actually,I PM`ed him first just to say hello.
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I know very little of this Compton dude. Is he taking a shit load, probably. I don't even know if he's a pro or not. I don't keep up with bodybuilding that much. What's his weight? Show a front shot or even the mandatories.
Who the hell knows except him, his trainer and maybe a few close friends.
Compton is 25 I believe? I couldn't find his weight with a quick search. Look at how he's grown last few years. I don't pretend to know exactly what he's doing but it's safe to say it's more than moderate. Look at his face.
2011
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JB5_8666wtmk_EQYDVYGNNC.JPG)
2014
(http://www.musculardevelopment.com/contests/1789-ifbb-europa-show-of-champions/2014/15023-justin-compton/15023-justin-compton-497_final.jpg)
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Dead by 40.
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He had a great pond of water on his abs in the first picture from 2011
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Jesus Van, I think we can all agree on that but not 20+ IU's above and beyond normal fucking production.
I don't know about that. 20iu's is nothing for a diabetic eating a moderately heavy meal. It's very well within physiological parameters. Now if you did 100iu in one go then yeah. If a bodybuilder can get away with 20iu only eating 100 grams of carbs, even with some insulin resistance going on, then it's hardly crazy. I've written about this before, eating a snickers bar will elicit a higher insulin level than a 10iu insulin shot (in a study).
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Dead by 40.
Why should he be dead if that only takes very moderate use? :D
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Why should he be dead if that only takes very moderate use? :D
:)
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Compton is 25 I believe? I couldn't find his weight with a quick search. Look at how he's grown last few years. I don't pretend to know exactly what he's doing but it's safe to say it's more than moderate. Look at his face.
2011
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JB5_8666wtmk_EQYDVYGNNC.JPG)
2014
(http://www.musculardevelopment.com/contests/1789-ifbb-europa-show-of-champions/2014/15023-justin-compton/15023-justin-compton-497_final.jpg)
ya. def didn't help him getting better looking that's for sure. why the fuck guys do this to themselves is beyond me. it not for women. so what's it for, to look good for other guys?
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ya. def didn't help him getting better looking that's for sure. why the fuck guys do this to themselves is beyond me. it not for women. so what's it for, to look good for other guys?
It's a sickness. My fkng hair starts falling out and my teeth start gapping?...I'm DONE with the shit. These guys are out of their minds.
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Actually it was, we trained and that's what we came to the gym for. 6 days a week.
Well, if you train very hard going 6 days a week is hard to do in the first place, your body will be in pieces in 2 weeks or worst case you'll be in hospital if you go all out trying to do some twice daily 2 hour sessions. But there's different ways to gauge intensity. Volume is not how I measure it. Some of these guys today do heavy sets of squats with maybe 500-600lbs. In pumping iron Arnold did some sets with 315 or 405. Which is more intense? Volume and short rests until you puke from the cardio aspect or really taxing sets with really heavy weights? I vote the second. Puking is no way to gauge intensity or effectiveness,
You can go hard or you can go long. I believe this is a pretty accurate statement.
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ya. def didn't help him getting better looking that's for sure. why the fuck guys do this to themselves is beyond me. it not for women. so what's it for, to look good for other guys?
You're obviously overlooking shiny, plastic trophies.
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Well, if you train very hard going 6 days a week is hard to do in the first place, your body will be in pieces in 2 weeks or worst case you'll be in hospital if you go all out trying to do some twice daily 2 hour sessions. But there's different ways to gauge intensity. Volume is not how I measure it. Some of these guys today do heavy sets of squats with maybe 500-600lbs. In pumping iron Arnold did some sets with 315 or 405. Which is more intense? Volume and short rests until you puke from the cardio aspect or really taxing sets with really heavy weights? I vote the second. Puking is no way to gauge intensity or effectiveness,
You can go hard or you can go long. I believe this is a pretty accurate statement.
The first, lifting heavy weights is hard for a few seconds then it's like you are fine.
Lifting fairly heavy weight for higher reps is brutal.
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ya. def didn't help him getting better looking that's for sure. why the fuck guys do this to themselves is beyond me. it not for women. so what's it for, to look good for other guys?
Yeah maybe, but the 2011 look gave him like 15th place in the nationals and second look gave him a pro win. For some it's simply the competitive aspect. Why would Hossein Rezazadeh look like a disgusting fat fuck to be the strongest weightlifter in the world? Why would powerlifters look like shit to break PR's? It's the challenge of the thing, the mental aspect.
Do you think the second look takes heavy use? :D
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The first, lifting heavy weights is hard for a few seconds then it's like you are fine.
Lifting fairly heavy weight for higher reps is brutal.
LOL, no you are not fine after extremely heavy sets... LOL no way. It's like this, take a powerlifter setting a world record... it may take MONTHS to recover from the few seconds of exertion. Pumping till you puke is brutal but recovering from low reps is a challenge too. Nervous system takes a beating, mentally you take beating. My training partner set a PR single in the squat last friday, he did nothing else, warming up for 90 minutes, then hit the PR. He has trained for 30 years, competed at an elite level for a long time. He was shaking for a couple of hours after that... felling beat up all weekend. :D Told me he needs to downcycle his training for several months to recover. This ain't no guy afraid of hard work, an absolute animal in the gym.
Platz did "deat sets" in the squat for high reps but he could only do this twice a month. A guy who says he trains to the absolute limit twice weekly is not going all out, I guarantee that.
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LOL, no you are not fine after extremely heavy sets... LOL no way. It's like this, take a powerlifter setting a world record... it may take MONTHS to recover from the few seconds of exertion. Pumping till you puke is brutal but recovering from low reps is a challenge too. Nervous system takes a beating, mentally you take beating. My training partner set a PR single in the squat last friday, he did nothing else, warming up for 90 minutes, then hit the PR. He has trained for 30 years, competed at an elite level for a long time. He was shaking for a couple of hours after that... felling beat up all weekend. :D Told me he needs to downcycle his training for several months to recover. This ain't no guy afraid of hard work, an absolute animal in the gym.
Platz did "deat sets" in the squat for high reps but he could only do this twice a month. A guy who says he trains to the absolute limit twice weekly is not going all out, I guarantee that.
X2
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LOL, no you are not fine after extremely heavy sets..it may take MONTHS to recover from the few seconds of exertion.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! Gayer than wearing a leather cowboy hat.
Brutalis genetics have-not type of reply.
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HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! Gayer than wearing a leather cowboy hat.
Brutalis genetics have-not type of reply.
hahaha ;D
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HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! Gayer than wearing a leather cowboy hat.
Brutalis genetics have-not type of reply.
Lol...
second tier genetics.
I think he should keep trying to educate a very well known and respected strength and conditioning coach (with household name clients).
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Well, I think there is a difference between say 400mg tren and 100mg Anavar the last few weeks and a gram of tren and 200mg of Anadrol. There is a reason Anadrol loading is popular and oral use in general is often heavy in the end. It obviously differs between individuals but this is what I believe.
As for my use, it's sporadic and not well thought out. If I could compete and/or showcased my body in the clubs like you guys love to do I might take the bodybuilding aspect more serious. I have shitty genetics and disfiguring injuries so competition is out, but if I could compete I would even with crappy genetics and guaranteed poor placing since the pressure of competition will help you advance imo.
I take drugs for the strength aspect mostly. I haven't done a lot of heavy stuff but experimented with heavy test for example last summer when ESfitness talked about his injection schedules. For example I shot 12 amps of test in one go for the hell of it but could only handle a couple of weeks of that. Orals I have done heavy for a few weeks at a time, up to about 200 Anadrol and 100 Dbol for a few days before trying to break pr's for example. I usually weigh between 210 and 250, "fat" (haven't measured bf) at 5'10'' or 5'11''. Right now I do 500mg test and 1cc of tren every 10 days, with a dbol or Anadrol 3 times a week pre-workout.
Thats why it was time to put a stop to his bullshit.
Second bolded bit is a little vague, what you weigh now and at what BF%?
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Thats why it was time to put a stop to his bullshit.
Second bolded bit is a little vague, what you weigh now and at what BF%?
smells of permafatso.
to be honest.
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smells of permafatso.
to be honest.
Yep, his next response will be based around how he is more of a powerlifter and loves lifting big weights even though he could be almost as strong and be in shape.
Will we ever see a photo, not in a million years.
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Yep, his next response will be based around how he is more of a powerlifter and loves lifting big weights even though he could be almost as strong and be in shape.
Will we ever see a photo, not in a million years.
nope.
all of his gear, all of his knowledge, means fuck all really.
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nope.
all of his gear, all of his knowledge, means fuck all really.
Not really, he's probably the most knowledgeable person here when it comes to PEDs. Incredibly smart guy.
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Dead by 40.
:D :D!!
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ya. def didn't help him getting better looking that's for sure. why the fuck guys do this to themselves is beyond me. it not for women. so what's it for, to look good for other guys?
to impress black women
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Not really, he's probably the most knowledgeable person here when it comes to PEDs. Incredibly smart guy.
Google is his friend.
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Not really, he's probably the most knowledgeable person here when it comes to PEDs. Incredibly smart guy.
Yep, I think so too.
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Compton is 25 I believe? I couldn't find his weight with a quick search. Look at how he's grown last few years. I don't pretend to know exactly what he's doing but it's safe to say it's more than moderate. Look at his face.
2011
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JB5_8666wtmk_EQYDVYGNNC.JPG)
2014
(http://www.musculardevelopment.com/contests/1789-ifbb-europa-show-of-champions/2014/15023-justin-compton/15023-justin-compton-497_final.jpg)
Grand Parents furniture of Peace! Fake oakflooring! ;D ;D
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Google is his friend.
We don't need Google. ESFitness knows everything
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We don't need Google. ESFitness knows everything
He knows how to withhold his very best photographs.
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He knows how to withhold his very best photographs.
FOREVER!! The only BB who doesn't want the public to see his best shape
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Van b also post on aswedish forum, king grub is his name there
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Yep, his next response will be based around how he is more of a powerlifter and loves lifting big weights even though he could be almost as strong and be in shape.
Will we ever see a photo, not in a million years.
I could NOT look real good no matter what. I look so bad I almost never take pics even for my own use because it only makes me depressed. Last year I took one single pic in a tank top because I thought my delts popped out a little. I have no excuses. The only claim I make is that I love to train, that's it, never said any different. I'm pretty strong for my size in certain lifts but I don't compete because we only have the IPF here, and the powerlifting culture here is very anti-drugs and I make no apologies over the fact that I'm juiced... I'm honest like that, I don't cheat. I could never be a good bb, no matter how many drugs I took.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! Gayer than wearing a leather cowboy hat.
Brutalis genetics have-not type of reply.
Alex, you are complete scum as a human being, everything coming out of your keyboard is a lie. Why don't you come clean about your wonderful natural genetics, "pro level size natural" you preached here for a decade... yeah we will be waiting. You probably used more drugs than most here. Tell us what you achieved with all that drugging and lying over years and years. Other than make you a perma-fatso alcoholic internet warrior.
As far as the comment I made why don't you ask chaos what was wrong about it. Why don't you ask an elite powerlifter if it takes a long time to recover from a meet. You do 9 singles at most in a meet... ask them if they feel fresh the days following. Less than a minute of excertion total, that's nothing right?
LiarScumbagSpeed
PS. it ain't that serious chief.
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Van b also post on aswedish forum, king grub is his name there
I'm not sure if you're joking but I don't post on Swedish forums. I did post on Kolozzeum a decade ago maybe, but you had fags like that Arne Persson moron saying you could win the Swedish champs clean, like his friend (forgot his name). I look at the forum for some pics with a friend every now and then and Arne is still spewing his anti-drug talk... meanwhile being a head judge in drug pageant. What a scumbag. BODY magazine, more scumbags, "we are against drug use" and "we don't feature bodybuilders who failed drug tests". Bitches with no balls.
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nope.
all of his gear, all of his knowledge, means fuck all really.
You referencing VanB? I've come to like your posting, thought you were a cookie cutter gimmick at first. But you are way off if talking about Van. He's forgotten more about gear than 90% of the posters on here will ever know. Some people on here are so full of shit that a pic is required to give them credibility. Van's not one of them and doesn't profess to be a guru. Just gives real life hands on knowledge
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I could NOT look real good no matter what. I look so bad I almost never take pics even for my own use because it only makes me depressed. Last year I took one single pic in a tank top because I thought my delts popped out a little. I have no excuses. The only claim I make is that I love to train, that's it, never said any different. I'm pretty strong for my size in certain lifts but I don't compete because we only have the IPF here, and the powerlifting culture here is very anti-drugs and I make no apologies over the fact that I'm juiced... I'm honest like that, I don't cheat. I could never be a good bb, no matter how many drugs I took.
It now becomes crystal clear why you believe more drugs = better physique.
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You referencing VanB? I'm come to like your posting, thought you were a cookie cutter gimmick at first. But you are way off if talking about Van. He's forgotten more about gear than 90% of the posters on here will ever know. Some people on here are so full of shit that a pic is required to give them credibility. Van's not one of them and doesn't profess to be a guru. Just gives real life hands on knowledge
When his real life accomplishment is looking like shit then why should you take anything he says seriously?
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I'm pretty strong for my size in certain lifts but I don't compete because we only have the IPF here, and the powerlifting culture here is very anti-drugs and I make no apologies over the fact that I'm juiced... I'm honest like that, I don't cheat.
Out of curiosity, do you not compete because you think it’s ethically wrong to compete juiced in a natural federation, or because you think you wouldn’t be able to get round the testing?
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Out of curiosity, do you not compete because you think it’s ethically wrong to compete juiced in a natural federation, or because you think you wouldn’t be able to get round the testing?
Its because hes not strong enough.
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I'm not sure if you're joking but I don't post on Swedish forums. I did post on Kolozzeum a decade ago maybe, but you had fags like that Arne Persson moron saying you could win the Swedish champs clean, like his friend (forgot his name). I look at the forum for some pics with a friend every now and then and Arne is still spewing his anti-drug talk... meanwhile being a head judge in drug pageant. What a scumbag. BODY magazine, more scumbags, "we are against drug use" and "we don't feature bodybuilders who failed drug tests". Bitches with no balls.
i was just joking , tought you knew what a douchebag he and his followers are (16 year kids).
yeah i used to be a active member on kolo but got tired after some years, mostly on king grub and his followers. The owner of kolo is a cool dude tough
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It now becomes crystal clear why you believe more drugs = better physique.
Look, I never made it as simple as that. You can do too many drugs and ruin everything too. But if you're around bodybuilders, see what they use, compare the dosages between these guys, look at the bodyweights and compare to the doses, see the difference GH makes, see what kind of gains the low dosers make who never advance in their drug use (like I said most bodybuilders are not making gains, most haven't gained shit in years and years)... you observe and draw conclusions.
I mean how can Coach say insulin and GH ruined bodybuilding, HE NEVER DID THOSE DRUGS. How can the old-school bodybuilders say todays drug regimens ruined bodybuilding and cause these guys to grow too much... how can they make those claims if they never did it?
I'm sure you do the same as well, or do you say there is no way I would have gained any more size if I added GH, insulin and ramped up the steroid doses... you can't with your logic.
Genetics is first in bodybuilding, but to reach a certain size and look some things are required.
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When his real life accomplishment is looking like shit then why should you take anything he says seriously?
Hany Ramrod, lol whatever his fucking name is, looks like a pile of steaming dog poo but guides many top professionals and amateurs. I just base my opinion, and it's just MY opinion, on reading his posts over the years. I don't need a pic. I absolutely respect your posts on training and gear too as they are backed up with pics and years of your own bb knowledge. You have awesome genetics and structure that few people have
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Look, I never made it as simple as that. You can do too many drugs and ruin everything too. But if you're around bodybuilders, see what they use, compare the dosages between these guys, look at the bodyweights and compare to the doses, see the difference GH makes, see what kind of gains the low dosers make who never advance in their drug use (like I said most bodybuilders are not making gains, most haven't gained shit in years and years)... you observe and draw conclusions.
I mean how can Coach say insulin and GH ruined bodybuilding, HE NEVER DID THOSE DRUGS. How can the old-school bodybuilders say todays drug regimens ruined bodybuilding and cause these guys to grow too much... how can they make those claims if they never did it?
I'm sure you do the same as well, or do you say there is no way I would have gained any more size if I added GH, insulin and ramped up the steroid doses... you can't with your logic.
Genetics is first in bodybuilding, but to reach a certain size and look some things are required.
Maybe thats why he doesn't have a bloated midsection.
The only difference in todays top guys and the old top guys is the GH and insulin.
Any chance he might be right?
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Its because hes not strong enough.
;D
I think he's a strong dude. 340kg deadlift or something like that if I recall. I would consider doing a powerlifting show if I was only allowed to do deadlifts.
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Out of curiosity, do you not compete because you think it’s ethically wrong to compete juiced in a natural federation, or because you think you wouldn’t be able to get round the testing?
I just don't like to lie. Today I think you also have to sign a legally binding statement you will pay like 10K if you fail a doping test. You will also be socially stigmatized, forget about ever going into a PL club to train, they will report you to the police etc. It's too much hassle even if you are good liar with no ethical qualms.
One famous Swedish PL'er failed a doping test like a decade ago, he served his sentence but even to this day the other competitors will not greet him and acknowledge him at a meet (they may have been friends and training partners for a decade before the failed test)... they make no secret of the fact they don't want him there at all. Forever a cheating scumbag in their eyes. He also lost his bouncing job due to the failed test.
Its because hes not strong enough.
Maybe. I'm also not a very competitive person by nature. But whatever the case I couldn't do it with the drug climate being what it is in this fucked up country.
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Maybe thats why he doesn't have a bloated midsection.
The only difference in todays top guys and the old top guys is the GH and insulin.
Any chance he might be right?
Yes of course he can be right. But the point is he has an opinion on something he never did himself. So is personal experience always necessary?
If it is then Coach can only advice on reaching this level. A tiny tit, a good looking tiny tit but a tiny tit nonetheless :D:
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e196/Intenseone/Joe_Marino_28129.jpg)
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10 facts about gear. (excluding gh/slin)
1.gear is NOT magic
2.gear will work on ANY ONE
3.gear will work better on the bodybuilder who train smarter while on it
4.being on gear does NOT mean you can go crazy on the weights
5. gear in general will MOSTLY recover you better, help you get the calories you need for growth by keeping you hungry, and direct those calories to the right "place"; gear will not build your muscle by itself! YOU build your muscles by training them and gear make the process 2times faster due to faster recovery and complete 100% recovery and growth between training sessions of the body part trained.
6. gear must be legit! to work
7.being on gear DOES NOT mean you can train 7 days a week 2 hours each session
8. the most progress on gear will be made by the bodybuilder who sticks to the same routine he does when he was natural,, only try to increase weight poundage by as much as possible as long as FORM IS ON SPOT!
9.any bodybuilder can grow from any type of gear. you dont have to take test in addition to deca and you dont have to take something else with dianabol for 'growth'. this is common mistake of most local gymnasium rats that they never learn from
10. your main mission is to chose the drug you want,, take it,, and concentrate more on the dose of the drug taken and on the form and training session insted of doing stupid combos of stuff and wait for miricales. the more advanced you will become the more stuff you will combine for a better effect. test is not a MUST! it is good for aggressiveness and sex drive but many MANY GUYS cycle it low and high doses depending on the timings and goals and how lean! they are
** if I could redo it all over again from the getgo i would use trenbolona ace and testosterone propioneta together....I would not start with dianabol testosterone and nandrolona and other nonsense type of combos given to gymnasium rats in gymnasiums,, I would keep it to the 2 short esters that give the most benefit and realy put quality on a physique while sculpting it and keep it within the quality parameter I expect a bodybuilder to remain within while using aas only,, you can start with one hormone too but what I recommend is this combo of 2 hormones for they are short ester and you can adjust on a daily basis and always stay on top of things as an up and comer,,those 2 hormones will also let you as a new bodybuild will give you the ability to be more linient with the diet since trenbolona is indeed a fat burner unlike some retards say.. it is INDEED a fat burner and the best fat burner among ALL aas
** once you get into fda gh ...insulin...and especialy pharmaceutical igf....it is a game changer...this is why you see many bodybuild and you say their form is shit...this is why you sometimes can not relate...it is because the 3 hormones I mentioned is a game changer in bodybuild and sports in general,, it is important to understand this,, it seperates 2 diferent groups...the up and comers group aka beginers...and thie ADVANCE group which is the ones who make money from bodybuild or if nto making money LOOK like they could make money if they wanted from bodybuild and no it doesn't mean only look it means also PERFORMANCE since sports involve performance not only look infact look is only bodybuild related ...most sports involve performance and this is what we use GEAR for both aas and ofcourse the big leage hormones fda gh insulin and our beloved pharmaceutical igf aka increlex which only the lucky and the connected get aka Olympic athletes...and very connected athletes in all fields usualy but not only the top of the fields
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Maybe thats why he doesn't have a bloated midsection.
The only difference in todays top guys and the old top guys is the GH and insulin.
Any chance he might be right?
Current bodybuilders absolutely look like shit. I would say more than anything it's guys with shitty structures trying to overcome it with size. But I would bet the pro's from the 90's, who everyone considers to be the best era ever for bb, all had healthy doses of gh in their regimens. Slim too, albeit just dabbling. Not the diabetes inducing doses seen now. Their exceptional frames and genetics excepted the doses, I doubt they were only using a gram here and there and a couple units of growth
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The internet is to blame for the high dosages used today, so many stories about whos taking what and how much and the fact they are still alive.
Back before the internet it was just word of mouth, it wasnt mentioned in magazines.
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Out of curiosity, do you not compete because you think it’s ethically wrong to compete juiced in a natural federation, or because you think you wouldn’t be able to get round the testing?
you have to know how anti dope the federation in sweden is to understand this. Its extreme. Lots of people told me when i was younger and trained heavy squats etc that i should start to compete but i didnt want to for the same reason as van so i understand him
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The internet is to blame for the high dosages used today, so many stories about whos taking what and how much and the fact they are still alive.
Back before the internet it was just word of mouth, it wasnt mentioned in magazines.
me ad my friends where sure that they had som secret drug that no gymrats could get and it was because of that mystical drug they where beasts lol but the internet learned me alot
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The internet is to blame for the high dosages used today, so many stories about whos taking what and how much and the fact they are still alive.
Back before the internet it was just word of mouth, it wasnt mentioned in magazines.
I almost feel like these retarded cycles are like badges of honor to these clowns. Yo look at all the gear I'm running, look at the bank I'm spending. Where you or me would be embarrassed to admit to running all that, it shows how "hardcore" he is. What a joke, I destroyed this clown natty. What's your guess on what his legs look like? Matchsticks, garauntee it LoL!
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Sweden sounds like a pretty odd country.
Known to be liberal but takes such a hard view on PED's. Must suck ass for you guys to live there despite all the blonde chicks. ;D
Juice is legal to take in the UK but illegal to sell. Only reason I haven't taken gear is purely down to cowardice. :D
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I almost feel like these retarded cycles are like badges of honor to these clowns. Yo look at all the gear I'm running, look at the bank I'm spending. Where you or me would be embarrassed to admit to running all that, it shows how "hardcore" he is. What a joke, I destroyed this clown natty. What's your guess on what his legs look like? Matchsticks, garauntee it LoL!
Yeah, you can tell guys like Bostin Loyd just love talking about their massive gear use to make themselves look hardcore.
They enjoy the notoriety they stir and want people to go "WTF! Dude, you're nuts!". ;D
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Sweden sounds like a pretty odd country.
Known to be liberal but takes such a hard view on PED's. Must suck ass for you guys to live there despite all the blonde chicks. ;D
Juice is legal to take in the UK but illegal to sell. Only reason I haven't taken gear is purely down to cowardice. :D
it sucks ass..if you are walking on the street minding your own buisness and a cops see you and think your traps are to big they can take you in on the spot and force you to take a test and meanwhile you are at the pigstation the pigs raid your home sp the neighbours thinks you are a drugdealer etc. Then they let you go and after a couple pf months you get the test back. But even if you are clean and they didnt find anything at your home the neighbours will still think you are a criminal.
A bitchcop that was of work and partying and a club saw a guy that the umeducated bitch taught that his trapz where to big. She called her cop friends that came to the clib and took the guy in. He was clean but embarassed that everyone in the club tought he was on rec drugs
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The internet is to blame for the high dosages used today, so many stories about whos taking what and how much and the fact they are still alive.
Back before the internet it was just word of mouth, it wasnt mentioned in magazines.
True and people were afraid of taking too much. they really didn't know that much about it yet.
Plus you didn't hear about BBers dying all the time, at age 30 -50!
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guys like ESFitness on The internet are to blame for the high dosages used today, so many stories about whos taking what and how much and the fact they are still alive, talking out their ass about things they know nothing about..
Back before the internet it was just word of mouth, it wasnt mentioned in magazines.
added to for further accuracy.
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it sucks ass..if you are walking on the street minding your own buisness and a cops see you and think your traps are to big they can take you in on the spot and force you to take a test and meanwhile you are at the pigstation the pigs raid your home sp the neighbours thinks you are a drugdealer etc. Then they let you go and after a couple pf months you get the test back. But even if you are clean and they didnt find anything at your home the neighbours will still think you are a criminal.
A bitchcop that was of work and partying and a club saw a guy that the umeducated bitch taught that his trapz where to big. She called her cop friends that came to the clib and took the guy in. He was clean but embarassed that everyone in the club tought he was on rec drugs
What if you were a Muslim 3rd worlder using aas? Would the cops give you a free pass? I assume they would treat it the same as if you took a broken bottle to your baby daughters genitals, it's not the swedes place to judge their new guests cultural practices.
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What if you were a Muslim 3rd worlder using aas? Would the cops give you a free pass? I assume they would treat it the same as if you took a broken bottle to your baby daughters genitals, it's not the swedes place to judge their new guests cultural practices.
lol everyone in sweden is afraid to be called a racist, if someose in the goverment says that sweden is taking in to many foreigners the media goes crazy and more or less calls him a rasict and a bigger part of the population thinks line that but they are afraid to say anything....like this syria war, finland took in 300 refugess, swezen said that everyone from syria is welcome to come i here....
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added to for further accuracy.
hmm.. I've been in this business for a long, long time. talking out of my ass about things I know nothing about? lol. have you ever 'trained' anybody that didn't involve having them copy exactly what you're doing? what works for you? lol.. you have no clue how to design an individual 'program' or give advice other than 'this is what works for me'. when you run into a problem, you're dumbfounded, and most likely reply with 'your genetics suck' and move along to the next sucker who's all ears and naive enough to think you can help them.
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hmm.. I've been in this business for a long, long time. talking out of my ass about things I know nothing about? lol. have you ever 'trained' anybody that didn't involve having them copy exactly what you're doing? what works for you? lol.. you have no clue how to design an individual 'program' or give advice other than 'this is what works for me'. when you run into a problem, you're dumbfounded, and most likely reply with 'your genetics suck' and move along to the next sucker who's all ears and naive enough to think you can help them.
TBH diet wise, the same thing does work for everyone.
Its just that everyone cant stick to it, so they go to personal trainers who blow smoke up their arses and write easy to follow diets that take 6 fucking months for them to shift any weight while they carry on fleecing them every month.
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hmm.. I've been in this business for a long, long time. talking out of my ass about things I know nothing about? lol. have you ever 'trained' anybody that didn't involve having them copy exactly what you're doing? what works for you? lol.. you have no clue how to design an individual 'program' or give advice other than 'this is what works for me'. when you run into a problem, you're dumbfounded, and most likely reply with 'your genetics suck' and move along to the next sucker who's all ears and naive enough to think you can help them.
calm down nancy.
yes, im sure your stable of 60yr old retirees and 50yr old cougars all get a very individualised program. must be quite taxing train such a core group of athletes.
you see, sparky, the advise i give involves this little place called 'reality' where i exist, not the fantasyland that plays out in the vacuous cavern between your ears when you post here. 6gram cycles, 700 grams of carbs, big time steroid dealer, hard as nails inmate etc etc.
you never did tell me why you need 700grams of carbs- can we get back to that?
thanks in advance.
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TBH diet wise, the same thing does work for everyone.
Its just that everyone cant stick to it, so they go to personal trainers who blow smoke up their arses and write easy to follow diets that take 6 fucking months for them to shift any weight while they carry on fleecing them every month.
depends on the client.
are you talking a 70yr old male CEO? a 60yr old retired lady? a 41 yr old soccer mom? a 32yr old crossfit girl? a 28yr old crossfit guy? a 51yr old NPC masters competetior? a 30yr old NPC open heavyweight? a 19yr old novice middleweight? a 28 yr old firefighter? a 27yr old figure competiror ? a 25yr old bikini competitor? a 29yr old MPD competitor?
as a trainer, you deal with everybody.. not just athletes. if you're a one-trick-pony, your career as a trainer will be very very short.
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depends on the client.
are you talking a 70yr old male CEO? a 60yr old retired lady? a 41 yr old soccer mom? a 32yr old crossfit girl? a 28yr old crossfit guy? a 51yr old NPC masters competetior? a 30yr old NPC open heavyweight? a 19yr old novice middleweight? a 28 yr old firefighter? a 27yr old figure competiror ? a 25yr old bikini competitor? a 29yr old MPD competitor?
as a trainer, you deal with everybody.. not just athletes. if you're a one-trick-pony, your career as a trainer will be very very short.
Yes, it depends if the client has any willpower to stick to a diet.
If I write a diet for someone and they come back a month later and they haven't lost anything it's not that it hasn't worked its that they haven't been following it.
People who have no willpower come to you because they want external motivation.
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Maybe thats why he doesn't have a bloated midsection.
The only difference in todays top guys and the old top guys is the GH and insulin.
Any chance he might be right?
Have you seen any pictures of Coach lately? His midsection is probably over 40"...I like the guy, but he could stand to lose 20-30 pounds.
As to your second point, there's a lot of things that have changed since the 70s-80s. Sure, the influx of gh/insulin is one of them, but diet, training styles, and drug protocols are also quite different.
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Yes, it depends if the client has any willpower to stick to a diet.
If I write a diet for someone and they come back a month later and they haven't lost anything it's not that it hasn't worked its that they haven't been following it.
People who have no willpower come to you because they want external motivation.
ppl come to me because they have the motivation, but have no idea what to do either with training or diet, or both. if they weren't motivated, they wouldn't come to me in the first place, as I don't approach them, ever. I don't solicit business... a 'la Vince Basile. on the very rare occasion, i'll see a girl who trains "ok" and i'll ask if she's ever thought about doing a figure show, and 3 months later she'll place top 3, aside from that? I don't do it.
bbers who can train, but are clueless when it comes to diet are pretty common. even npc guys who've done a few shows, the majority still diet like they're cutting weight for a wrestling meet in high school.
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Have you seen any pictures of Coach lately? His midsection is probably over 40"...I like the guy, but he could stand to lose 20-30 pounds.
As to your second point, there's a lot of things that have changed since the 70s-80s. Sure, the influx of gh/insulin is one of them, but diet, training styles, and drug protocols are also quite different.
Not a lot.
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Tony Freeman was arrested in europe for being too big.
(http://goldenmuscles.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Toney-Freeman-arrested1.jpg)
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ppl come to me because they have the motivation, but have no idea what to do either with training or diet, or both. if they weren't motivated, they wouldn't come to me in the first place, as I don't approach them, ever.
Thats the same type of motivation that people get after Christmas when they sign up to a gym in the new year.
Doesn't last.
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Not a lot.
I didn't watch your videos (sorry, on my phone), but I believe the first one is of Shawn Ray, no? I would classify him as a "new era" bodybuilder, being that he probably used gh/slin.
It's the pre-gh guys--ie: 70s-80s bodybuilders-- that seemed to diet on less food, and less carbs. I think general overeating, compounded with a build-up of visceral fat from gh-induced insulin resistance & too many carbs is what's responsible for the guts. But nobody really seems to know for sure
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I didn't watch your videos (sorry, on my phone), but I believe the first one is of Shawn Ray, no? I would classify him as a "new era" bodybuilder, being that he probably used gh/slin.
It's the pre-gh guys--ie: 70s-80s bodybuilders-- that seemed to diet on less food, and less carbs. I think general overeating, compounded with a build-up of visceral fat from gh-induced insulin resistance & too many carbs is what's responsible for the guts. But nobody really seems to know for sure
Yep, Shawn and Phil heath, not a lot of difference
I think your right with regards the excessive food consumption, that goes with the slin.
Its likely a combination of all the things together rather than an individual problem.
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What about all the muscle chicks coming out of Sweden, whats that all about? Do they not get harassed like the men? Or do they get looked over by the feminist powers that be?
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Tony Freeman was arrested in europe for being too big.
(http://goldenmuscles.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Toney-Freeman-arrested1.jpg)
Yes in Sweden
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Thats the same type of motivation that people get after Christmas when they sign up to a gym in the new year.
Doesn't last.
doesn't happen.
ppl put that off until early feb.
the same could be said for ppl training in spring for summer.. doesn't last.
none of them 'last'.
which is why you need to produce results with the clients you have now, to generate biz in the future.
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doesn't happen.
ppl put that off until early feb.
the same could be said for ppl training in spring for summer.. doesn't last.
none of them 'last'.
which is why you need to produce results with the clients you have now, to generate biz in the future.
You dont get results, they do. ;)
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I'm like George Farah.
I can't just quit working out like... forever...
and still look jacked as fuck.
That's a REAL stack... (a stack of shit!)
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What about all the muscle chicks coming out of Sweden, whats that all about? Do they not get harassed like the men? Or do they get looked over by the feminist powers that be?
A chick was detained for urinalysis by the cops for training too often. Someone called the cops because they said this woman was training often and had mood swings. She tested clean and filed a complaint.
One gym banned members who drank protein shakes as that was seen as a slippery slope, you start with protein shakes and end up with a needle up your ass.
One "expert" said a sign of steroid use is drinking a lot of water during workouts. Also, the users lacked any "joy" in their training, they don't look happy working out.
This is no joke, it's Sweden.
Swedish IFBB pro Andreas Cahling has an FB page reporting all these happenings. Only reason he can do it is because he resides in the US, otherwise he would be in custody.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Muscle-profiling-in-Sweden-stop-the-madness/187462231285140
Andreas wonders when bodybuilders decide enough is enough and retaliate against the police. :D
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A chick was detained for urinalysis by the cops for training too often. Someone called the cops because they said this woman was training often and had mood swings. She tested clean and filed a complaint.
One gym banned members who drank protein shakes as that was seen as a slippery slope, you start with protein shakes and end up with a needle up your ass.
One "expert" said a sign of steroid use is drinking a lot of water during workouts. Also, the users lacked any "joy" in their training, they don't look happy working out.
This is no joke, it's Sweden.
That's quite a country of peace you've got there "chief". Any way out?
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Compare Anth Bailes training with Leroy (Dorians old training partner) to Jays back workout.
::)
Both are garbage.
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LOL, no you are not fine after extremely heavy sets... LOL no way. It's like this, take a powerlifter setting a world record... it may take MONTHS to recover from the few seconds of exertion. Pumping till you puke is brutal but recovering from low reps is a challenge too. Nervous system takes a beating, mentally you take beating. My training partner set a PR single in the squat last friday, he did nothing else, warming up for 90 minutes, then hit the PR. He has trained for 30 years, competed at an elite level for a long time. He was shaking for a couple of hours after that... felling beat up all weekend. :D Told me he needs to downcycle his training for several months to recover. This ain't no guy afraid of hard work, an absolute animal in the gym.
Platz did "deat sets" in the squat for high reps but he could only do this twice a month. A guy who says he trains to the absolute limit twice weekly is not going all out, I guarantee that.
honestly, i don't believe any of this
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That's quite a country of peace you've got there "chief". Any way out?
sweet relief of death comes to mind.
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honestly, i don't believe any of this
Do you associate with a lot of powerlifters? Ever talk to them about how they feel the week after a meet where they set a few PR's?
Or do you generally just feel heavy low rep work isn't taxing, rest a few seconds and you're ready to go again?
Ever do a grinding set of deadlifts with maybe 6-7-800lbs?
Ever do a set of squats with maybe 500lbs to failure where the spotter actually has to grab you on the last one? Ready to go again after 2 minutes? More like 10-15 minutes just til the ears stop ringing and heartrate is below 100.
Some call low rep to failure training high density training instead, a more apt term perhaps. It's so taxing you can't do a lot of it. You can train real hard, real dense LOL, or train long. I remember that fool Poliquin saying this about Mentzer type training:
His system requires only a fraction of the time required by most other programs, but it's difficult to do it for more than a few weeks because it requires that the trainee be either mentally disturbed or addicted to amphetamines in order to keep up the degree of effort required.
Anyone doing twice daily workouts for 2 hours at a time is not training hard, it's certainly not intense/dense, and it's not training to failure each set, no matter what they claim. If you can balonie around with your pals between sets or text bitches it's not hard... it's just long.
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The old time reference from the 70's - 80's was to wait about at least 12 - 16 between meets, with most doing 2 - 3 a year, these being full meets. I'd say that's still about average with the major guys, the difference is they may add in an extra bench only meet or something similar now.
I will say that among the fellows that do a high average number of meets you will see dips of a couple of hundred pounds across totals through the year.
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Do you associate with a lot of powerlifters? Ever talk to them about how they feel the week after a meet where they set a few PR's?
Or do you generally just feel heavy low rep work isn't taxing, rest a few seconds and you're ready to go again?
Ever do a grinding set of deadlifts with maybe 6-7-800lbs?
Ever do a set of squats with maybe 500lbs to failure where the spotter actually has to grab you on the last one? Ready to go again after 2 minutes? More like 10-15 minutes just til the ears stop ringing and heartrate is below 100.
no, i've never been nearly that strong (my best squat is 405, deadlift 515). i never felt a single max rep took so much out of me that i couldn't try again and get a similar number 5 minutes later.
i've done insanely hard sets that, yeah, after 4 sets (total workout) i was VERY sore for the next 5 days. those were high rep leg sets though.
i think the variation between what people can handle varies greatly, and peoples' perceptions of a workout's difficulty even moreso. this is probably the source of my confusion, and also why gym stories are so often misinterpreted.
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Have you seen any pictures of Coach lately? His midsection is probably over 40"...I like the guy, but he could stand to lose 20-30 pounds.
As to your second point, there's a lot of things that have changed since the 70s-80s. Sure, the influx of gh/insulin is one of them, but diet, training styles, and drug protocols are also quite different.
So many uninformed people on here. 1. I don't really train for bodybuilding anymore. More powerlifting/strongman but, yes even at 230 and 51 years old I still have clearly visible abs.
No, not even close to 40 but even if it was my chest is still probably close to 52-53 but that's irrelevant.
Being lean is great, staying that way is nearly impossible. You guys that are ultra lean. Enjoy it, it ain't gonna last long. Yes, this includes go 4 it. If it does stay that way, you may have an eating disorder and stay weak.
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Yes of course he can be right. But the point is he has an opinion on something he never did himself. So is personal experience always necessary?
If it is then Coach can only advice on reaching this level. A tiny tit, a good looking tiny tit but a tiny tit nonetheless :D:
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e196/Intenseone/Joe_Marino_28129.jpg)
Thanks Van, I just turned 21 like a week or two before that was taken. Are you saying I already reached my physical potential then??
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LOL, no you are not fine after extremely heavy sets... LOL no way. It's like this, take a powerlifter setting a world record... it may take MONTHS to recover from the few seconds of exertion. Pumping till you puke is brutal but recovering from low reps is a challenge too. Nervous system takes a beating, mentally you take beating. My training partner set a PR single in the squat last friday, he did nothing else, warming up for 90 minutes, then hit the PR. He has trained for 30 years, competed at an elite level for a long time. He was shaking for a couple of hours after that... felling beat up all weekend. :D Told me he needs to downcycle his training for several months to recover. This ain't no guy afraid of hard work, an absolute animal in the gym.
Platz did "deat sets" in the squat for high reps but he could only do this twice a month. A guy who says he trains to the absolute limit twice weekly is not going all out, I guarantee that.
I just saw this. I'm having a hard time with this first paragraph or so. Takes months to recover from a few seconds??? Really? How did you physiologically come up with this?
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I just saw this. I'm having a hard time with this first paragraph or so. Takes months to recover from a few seconds??? Really? How did you physiologically come up with this?
what the fuck do you know about strength sports???????
oh, wait.
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A chick was detained for urinalysis by the cops for training too often. Someone called the cops because they said this woman was training often and had mood swings. She tested clean and filed a complaint.
One gym banned members who drank protein shakes as that was seen as a slippery slope, you start with protein shakes and end up with a needle up your ass.
One "expert" said a sign of steroid use is drinking a lot of water during workouts. Also, the users lacked any "joy" in their training, they don't look happy working out.
This is no joke, it's Sweden.
Swedish IFBB pro Andreas Cahling has an FB page reporting all these happenings. Only reason he can do it is because he resides in the US, otherwise he would be in custody.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Muscle-profiling-in-Sweden-stop-the-madness/187462231285140
Andreas wonders when bodybuilders decide enough is enough and retaliate against the police. :D
and in a competition in sweden they came in backstage so all pf the heavyweights but one run away.
freeman incident: the chief took in freeman when he was signing picd (no they couldnt wait until after) and he called the press himself and was boasting about this that he took in a profesionelö bb for steroids (dont forget you dont get the results until after) . One year after the same store that hired freeman called tge same chief anf said that they will have a 100% natural atleat and asked that they will not come and destroy the happenoing agaim....but they did, amd they called the press but this athlear was cöean.....no excusecafter snd the copchief pig didnt call the media to say he was wrong this guy was clean....the guy himself hade to do it to clean hid name
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and in a competition in sweden they came in backstage so all pf the heavyweights but one run away.
freeman incident: the chief took in freeman when he was signing picd (no they couldnt wait until after) and he called the press himself and was boasting about this that he took in a profesionelö bb for steroids (dont forget you dont get the results until after) . One year after the same store that hired freeman called tge same chief anf said that they will have a 100% natural atleat and asked that they will not come and destroy the happenoing agaim....but they did, amd they called the press but this athlear was cöean.....no excusecafter snd the copchief pig didnt call the media to say he was wrong this guy was clean....the guy himself hade to do it to clean hid name
how the fuck can you live in a country like that
its basically a police state
people need to fight for their rights
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how the fuck can you live in a country like that
its basically a police state
people need to fight for their rights
Honestly, the average getbigger could walk around Sweeedland without a blouse on and be of no real danger of being nabbed.
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how the fuck can you live in a country like that
its basically a police state
people need to fight for their rights
people dont do. Imagine if you where im the gym or just walking and the cops come and take you just because you look to big. I have never been tested but was lucky one tiime, i just tl always train 6 o clock and ine tuesday i was sick so i could not go to the gym, heard the the after that the cops have been there but it was only tinytits there but they tppk them in. I was 220 5.8 and roided so they wouldhsd take me im and if they had raided my house they would have find roids for 10k euro
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Compare Anth Bailes training with Leroy (Dorians old training partner) to Jays back workout.
jay has much better mind muscle connection and makes the weights heavy
the other guy is just throwing shit around, all nervous system training, zero muscle contraction
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I just saw this. I'm having a hard time with this first paragraph or so. Takes months to recover from a few seconds??? Really? How did you physiologically come up with this?
Okay, let me set up a scenario for you. You benched like 530lbs in your youth, so you say. You set a goal for yourself, in one year you're going to bench 545lbs or die trying, nothing else will matter, everything else will take a backseat to this goal. You know you are 50 years old but fuck those who say it can't be done. You set up a one year peaking cycle. You injure yourself a few times in the year but press on upping the painkiller dose. The shoulder is worse than ever but you think there is a chance. On the day of you are full of ephedrine and desperation and somehow manage to hit your goal.
Are you ready to try again next week, I mean you only exerted yourself for a few seconds? :D
My training partner is close to 50. Today he will attempt a 10lb raw lifetime deadlift max. He did a single squat on monday, felt he should probably take an easy deadlift session today and attempt next friday instead but he is afraid he might come down with something and then the whole year is lost. He will then start another training cycle... you can only hold peak form for so long, maybe a couple of weeks.
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sweet relief of death comes to mind.
I can't even imagine living under such an socialist oppressive regime.
It's sooo ironic. "Too white" people are fucking crazy.
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no, i've never been nearly that strong (my best squat is 405, deadlift 515). i never felt a single max rep took so much out of me that i couldn't try again and get a similar number 5 minutes later.
i've done insanely hard sets that, yeah, after 4 sets (total workout) i was VERY sore for the next 5 days. those were high rep leg sets though.
i think the variation between what people can handle varies greatly, and peoples' perceptions of a workout's difficulty even moreso. this is probably the source of my confusion, and also why gym stories are so often misinterpreted.
Yeah it depends on a few factors. I think there is research suggesting that when there is spinal loading it exhausts the nervous system more (something lik that, Lyle McDonald said something about it). So a squat is more taxing than a bench on the system as a whole. Then there is execution, like I said, grinding deadlifts, you can do a circa max but if it comes up fairly smoothly and quickly it will not be nearly as exhausting as if it were a slow grinding 15 second rep.
I never do high reps really on the componds but a couple of months ago I decided to rep deads in the rack with the pin in lowest hole. I think I did about 615 for 14 reps, about 3 reps from failure. My deadlift strength took a dip for 2-3 weeks after that, despite not really getting excessively sore from that set I did. High reps on the squat and deadlift are very taxing.
I always say every lifter, every bodybuilder does some pacing in their workouts. "I always go to failure" is a bunch of BS but most bodybuilders say they always go all out. Yeah right. :D
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Thanks Van, I just turned 21 like a week or two before that was taken. Are you saying I already reached my physical potential then??
Maybe for the dose you were on. But no, I'm sure you had plenty more growing to do with more juice. Here you were in proper shape, at the Excalibur you were about 30lbs from this shape.
But the point is that you can have an opinion on things you didn't do yourself, you can be right or you can be wrong but you can't just discount the opinion out of hand. Otherwise you would have no business mentioning GH and insulin. :D
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One year after the same store that hired freeman called tge same chief anf said that they will have a 100% natural atleat and asked that they will not come and destroy the happenoing agaim....but they did, amd they called the press but this athlear was cöean.....no excusecafter snd the copchief pig didnt call the media to say he was wrong this guy was clean....the guy himself hade to do it to clean hid name
Are you talking about the Roddy Benjaminsson incident? Roddy walked into the police station saying, hey I'd like you to test me, the Gladiators show wants "clean papers" so can you test me? They were like, that's not how it works, you can't just walk in here asking for a test.
Then they place him under arrest and let him pee. Of course this sounds strange, but what Roddy forgot to say is that when he talked to a cop he admitted to juicing in the past when doing bodybuilding shows LOL. What a moron. This guy claims lifetime natural status, but of course he has done tons of drugs.
I have never been tested but was lucky one tiime,
One guy I know has been lucky also a couple of times. Twice at clubs the undercovers came over to talk about steroids, one time the female cop said alright we'll let you go, then the male cop takes him aside and says, you were lucky this time, I would have taken you in. :D
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Van_Bilderass, just hypothetically of course, but if someone found out your location and called the Swedish authority to inform them that a "muscular" "man" is in possession of anabolics, would this land you in an Ikea prison and being fed "meat" "balls"?
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Van_Bilderass, just hypothetically of course, but if someone found out your location and called the Swedish authority to inform them that a "muscular" "man" is in possession of anabolics, would this land you in an Ikea prison and being fed "meat" "balls"?
Yes and I wouldn't put it past you with your history. ::) :D
Luckily for me I'm not very muscular and there are no anabolics at my house. :D
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Yes and I wouldn't put it past you with your history. ::) :D
Luckily for me I'm not very muscular and there are no anabolics at my house. :D
All this is hypothetical of course, so no need to "clean house" 8)
Just wondering really how obsessive the authorities are over there and their motivation.
It really fascinates me how a society can accept morphology profiling being applied by the authorities. I can't find any to rationale to it.
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what the fuck do you know about strength sports???????
oh, wait.
Coach may know how to train athletes but he isn't that clued up on powerlifting. Only a few months back he thought that a squat required a pause at the bottom of the lift in order to get white lighted. :D
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Coach may know how to train athletes but he isn't that clued up on powerlifting. Only a few months back he thought that a squat required a pause at the bottom of the lift in order to get white lighted. :D
Not sure what this means nor care... does one need to be a "power"lifting aficionado to train real athletes? Kinda missing your seems obsessive point here.
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Coach may know how to train athletes but he isn't that clued up on powerlifting. Only a few months back he thought that a squat required a pause at the bottom of the lift in order to get white lighted. :D
When Coach talks about deadlifts he means this:
(http://thestrengthcircle.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/hex-bar-girl.png)
No joke. He was causing earthquakes in the LA area a few weeks ago doing "deadlifts". :D
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Not sure what this means nor care... does one need to be a "power"lifting aficionado to train real athletes? Kinda missing your seems obsessive point here.
Point is simple. Coach isn't that clued up on powerlifting and therefore isn't the best person to listen to regarding the issues of recovery, training methods etc in the sport.
If you want to know those kind of things in powerlifting, you'd be better listening to the likes of Van B, Fortress, Chaos etc.
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Point is simple. Coach isn't that clued up on powerlifting and therefore isn't the best person to speak to regarding the issues of recovery, training methods etc in the sport.
LOLOL ok son... what "sport" are we talking about here?
As far as I know, Joe is a highly successful at bodybuilding, MMA strength training, football strength training and an epic golfer...
So what's your point exactly?
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LOLOL ok son... what "sport" are we talking about here?
As far as I know, Joe is a highly successful at bodybuilding, MMA strength training, football strength training and an epic golfer...
So what's your point exactly?
Powerlifting dude. :D
The last few pages have discussed recovery levels in powerlifting.
I just saw this. I'm having a hard time with this first paragraph or so. Takes months to recover from a few seconds??? Really? How did you physiologically come up with this?
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So many uninformed people on here. 1. I don't really train for bodybuilding anymore. More powerlifting/strongman but, yes even at 230 and 51 years old I still have clearly visible abs.
No, not even close to 40 but even if it was my chest is still probably close to 52-53 but that's irrelevant.
Being lean is great, staying that way is nearly impossible. You guys that are ultra lean. Enjoy it, it ain't gonna last long. Yes, this includes go 4 it. If it does stay that way, you may have an eating disorder and stay weak.
Hey, no offense intended. I'm just going off of recent pictures I've seen, the one where you're doing a side chest in a white t-shirt....I'd dig it up, but meh.
I really respect your accomplishments, experiences, and knowledge...but 230 at 5'6" is huge, even with visible abs. Seems like it wouldn't be a bad idea to lighten up, if only to give your body a break....but hey, I'm just some guy on the internet
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Point is simple. Coach isn't that clued up on powerlifting and therefore isn't the best person to listen to regarding the issues of recovery, training methods etc in the sport.
If you want to know those kind of things in powerlifting, you'd be better listening to the likes of Van B, Fortress, Chaos etc.
Better yet, Mike Wolfe. It's really funny when someone makes a mistake someone is all of the sudden deemed not knowledgeable. I'll be posting on this throughout the day as time permits. But the recovery issue on this is complete bullshit.
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When Coach talks about deadlifts he means this:
(http://thestrengthcircle.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/hex-bar-girl.png)
No joke. He was causing earthquakes in the LA area a few weeks ago doing "deadlifts". :D
We do conventional deadlifts as well. There is a difference.
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Okay, let me set up a scenario for you. You benched like 530lbs in your youth, so you say. You set a goal for yourself, in one year you're going to bench 545lbs or die trying, nothing else will matter, everything else will take a backseat to this goal. You know you are 50 years old but fuck those who say it can't be done. You set up a one year peaking cycle. You injure yourself a few times in the year but press on upping the painkiller dose. The shoulder is worse than ever but you think there is a chance. On the day of you are full of ephedrine and desperation and somehow manage to hit your goal.
Are you ready to try again next week, I mean you only exerted yourself for a few seconds? :D
My training partner is close to 50. Today he will attempt a 10lb raw lifetime deadlift max. He did a single squat on monday, felt he should probably take an easy deadlift session today and attempt next friday instead but he is afraid he might come down with something and then the whole year is lost. He will then start another training cycle... you can only hold peak form for so long, maybe a couple of weeks.
Ok, I want to to read the highlighted carefully. Then understand how painkillers can affect the breakdown of the CNS. I know it's used, but understand it anyway. Athletes exert the CNS everyday but they train for it. This what I'm having a hard time understanding from physiological sense.
We know there is a recovery period from set to set usually 3-5min on a ME day, be it bench, squat or deadlift. Of course here I'm going to use the Westside conjugate protocol. ME Upper, ME lower, DE upper, DE Lower. The goal each week is to break a record each week. I'll get back to this in a bit. But hold that thought.
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Okay, let me set up a scenario for you. You benched like 530lbs in your youth, so you say. You set a goal for yourself, in one year you're going to bench 545lbs or die trying, nothing else will matter, everything else will take a backseat to this goal. You know you are 50 years old but fuck those who say it can't be done. You set up a one year peaking cycle. You injure yourself a few times in the year but press on upping the painkiller dose. The shoulder is worse than ever but you think there is a chance. On the day of you are full of ephedrine and desperation and somehow manage to hit your goal.
Are you ready to try again next week, I mean you only exerted yourself for a few seconds? :D
My training partner is close to 50. Today he will attempt a 10lb raw lifetime deadlift max. He did a single squat on monday, felt he should probably take an easy deadlift session today and attempt next friday instead but he is afraid he might come down with something and then the whole year is lost. He will then start another training cycle... you can only hold peak form for so long, maybe a couple of weeks.
So the few seconds of exertion has fuck all to do with him being able to train the next week, its the training on pain killers for a year.
You are just trolling now van, no ones really as dumb as you are looking with your recent posts.
You fat fuck.
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When I say I go to failure at every workout,I`m not talking about the most weight I have ever used in my life for max reps on an exercise,I`m talking about multiple sets,multiple exercise movements, with muscle failure on each set of said movements.
1 hard workout per month = "over training resting". :D
Poundages do vary on these movements from week to week, but I`m not trying to set strength records,I`m just training as hard as I can on any given day according to how I feel.
I could give 2 flying fucks if I ever deadlift 600 pounds.
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When I say I go to failure at every workout,I`m not talking about the most weight I have ever used in my life for max reps on an exercise,I`m talking about multiple sets,multiple exercise movements, with muscle failure on each set of said movements.
1 hard workout per month = "over training resting". :D
Poundages do vary on these movements from week to week, but I`m not trying to set strength records,I`m just training as hard as I can on any given day according to how I feel.
I could give 2 flying fucks if I ever deadlift 600 pounds.
This.
I trained today , didn't use as much weight as normal because I felt a bit creaky during the exercise, still pushed it to failure though, drop sets , higher reps, partials.
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This.
I trained today , didn't use as much weight as normal because I felt a bit creaky during the exercise, still pushed it to failure though, drop sets , higher reps, partials.
Same here bro,and come Monday,I`ll train to failure again..............or should I wait a few months? ;D
What bodybuilder these days does a max one rep attempt?
No way can a person compare training to failure in bodybuilding to training to failure in powerlifting...........t hey`re just two completely different animals.
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And that doesn't even include his whiny, nasally voice.... he's pathetic
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Ok, I want to to read the highlighted carefully. Then understand how painkillers can affect the breakdown of the CNS. I know it's used, but understand it anyway. Athletes exert the CNS everyday but they train for it. This what I'm having a hard time understanding from physiological sense.
We know there is a recovery period from set to set usually 3-5min on a ME day, be it bench, squat or deadlift. Of course here I'm going to use the Westside conjugate protocol. ME Upper, ME lower, DE upper, DE Lower. The goal each week is to break a record each week. I'll get back to this in a bit. But hold that thought.
So Van, all of this being said. If CNS recovery was that long how do you explain WS breaking records on a weekly basis? I also understand that records WON'T be broken every week but the intent is there. We follow a westside template in my gym and it works, a record is broken in some lift main lift each week.
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Are you talking about the Roddy Benjaminsson incident? Roddy walked into the police station saying, hey I'd like you to test me, the Gladiators show wants "clean papers" so can you test me? They were like, that's not how it works, you can't just walk in here asking for a test.
Then they place him under arrest and let him pee. Of course this sounds strange, but what Roddy forgot to say is that when he talked to a cop he admitted to juicing in the past when doing bodybuilding shows LOL. What a moron. This guy claims lifetime natural status, but of course he has done tons of drugs.
One guy I know has been lucky also a couple of times. Twice at clubs the undercovers came over to talk about steroids, one time the female cop said alright we'll let you go, then the male cop takes him aside and says, you were lucky this time, I would have taken you in. :D
no it was abother guy that i never heard of a smaller physiqe guy or what they now call it in sweden
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remember, this is what those annoying online powerlifting assholes actually look like...
(http://dammitgym.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Picture-1-600x355.png)
(http://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQBH6UzgYmyO_eDK&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FV_1jM0q1_F4%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg%3Ffeature%3Dog&jq=100)
;D
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When i starte to train for a local gymcompetition i had nlt done the 3 lifts in 10 months and had 7 week to max out. I had a coach wjo was in the swedish national team in the 80s. 7 weeks is not much so i had to max out every session snd it got harder and harder to train so i woud be at my max in 7 weeks (so much max i had time to). After the comp i was so beaten up so rested the whole week and i dont think i would have the strengt the nxt week to do the same. What van says about months i dont knlw but it took atleast 3-4 weeks for me to recover from the beating my body got in the 7 weeks
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So the few seconds of exertion has fuck all to do with him being able to train the next week, its the training on pain killers for a year.
You are just trolling now van, no ones really as dumb as you are looking with your recent posts.
You fat fuck.
I never troll, it's not my style. I may joke a little here and there but then it's obvious. I leave the trolling to guys like you and Alex etc.
The reason I mentioned the painkillers is to make the point that all powerlifters work through aches and pains, something always hurts. My training partner
has taken diklofenac, an NSAID, every day for 10 years straight. He simply can't function without it. He does use codeine (with APAP), about 60mg which is a small dose, 3 or 4 days per week because his shoulder is so bad the pain would be too much without it.
The painkillers have nothing to do with the inability to recover instantaneously after hitting a PR (after training for 30 years every PR in the main powerlifts is a huge thing, sometimes it has taken a few years of brutal training to even add 10lbs to a lift).
Coach said something about painkillers braking down the CNS. I really want to hear this, never heard of such (quite possible I missed something with my google-fu). Sort of an aside, but I read that the old Russian weightlifting manuals mentioned they added small amounts of opiates as a recovery tool during the most taxing training periods. Coach mentions Westside powerlifters quite often, maybe he should ask around how many of those guys live on painkillers LOL. Some of these guys can't even lift their arm to drink a coffee, have to walk backwards down a flight of stairs, take a hot bath in the morning to even get out of the house LOL
I just came back from the gym, my friend missed his deadlift attempt. In his words, "That squat single on monday took too much out of me, I'm too beat up, I knew I should've taken an easy deadlift recovery session today and attempted next friday instead". This guy ain't no newbie or pussy, he has an IPF World's Gold medal in the deadlift.
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I never troll, it's not my style. I may joke a little here and there but then it's obvious. I leave the trolling to guys like you and Alex etc.
The reason I mentioned the painkillers is to make the point that all powerlifters work through aches and pains, something always hurts. My training partner
has taken diklofenac, an NSAID, every day for 10 years straight. He simply can't function without it. He does use codeine (with APAP), about 60mg which is a small dose, 3 or 4 days per week because his shoulder is so bad the pain would be too much without it.
The painkillers have nothing to do with the inability to recover instantaneously after hitting a PR (after training for 30 years every PR in the main powerlifts is a huge thing, sometimes it has taken a few years of brutal training to even add 10lbs to a lift).
Coach said something about painkillers braking down the CNS. I really want to hear this, never heard of such (quite possible I missed something with my google-fu). Sort of an aside, but I read that the old Russian weightlifting manuals mentioned they added small amounts of opiates as a recovery tool during the most taxing training periods. Coach mentions Westside powerlifters quite often, maybe he should ask around how many of those guys live on painkillers LOL. Some of these guys can't even lift their arm to drink a coffee, have to walk backwards down a flight of stairs, take a hot bath in the morning to even get out of the house LOL
I just came back from the gym, my friend missed his deadlift attempt. In his words, "That squat single on monday took too much out of me, I'm too beat up, I knew I should've taken an easy deadlift recovery session today and attempted next friday instead". This guy ain't no newbie or pussy, he has an IPF World's Gold medal in the deadlift.
What a colossal waste of time.
You guys are a fucking joke, you are weightlifting FFS, you're not going on a journey to the far side of the sun.
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The reason I mentioned the painkillers is to make the point that all powerlifters work through aches and pains, something always hurts. My training partner
has taken diklofenac, an NSAID, every day for 10 years straight. He simply can't function without it. He does use codeine (with APAP), about 60mg which is a small dose, 3 or 4 days per week because his shoulder is so bad the pain would be too much without it.
Has your friend ever considered the deleterious effects that taking an NSAID for such prolonged time can have??
GI track (NSAID's can cause gastric ulcers by way of their ability to reduce the presence of prostaglandins in the epithelial layer of the stomach, which allows for gastric acid to erose the inner lining of the stomach)
Clotting abilities (NSAID's interfere with platelet function)
Overall kidney health (NSAIDs can lead to both acute and chronic kidney injury including hemodynamically-mediated acute kidney injury, electrolyte and acid-base disorders, acute interstitial nephritis, which may be accompanied by the nephrotic syndrome, and papillary necrosis)
Have you spoken to him about this before?
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So Van, all of this being said. If CNS recovery was that long how do you explain WS breaking records on a weekly basis? I also understand that records WON'T be broken every week but the intent is there. We follow a westside template in my gym and it works, a record is broken in some lift main lift each week.
I'm not sure you understand how they do that. About 4 years ago I went a whole year doing good mornings/deadlifts 3 days per week, trying to hit a PR each time! Now how can this be done with what I've said in previous posts? You rotate exercises, variations of those exercises and rep ranges frequently. They can't add weight to say a conventional deadlift or squat each week or they would all be squatting 3000lbs in a year. You stall on a lift variation and move to something else, look at your log book and try to beat your previous bests in that particular variation of a lift. My memory is a bit fuzzy but isn't there a term called circa max? Which, IIRC, is an approximate max and not a do or die lift necessarily. If I'm wrong please correct me here.
I also think you using those Westside methods is a bit ridiculous considering your clientele. The few videos you've put up those guys don't even look too comfortable with basic squatting technique for example. There's a lot more to be said about using the Westside methods for rank beginners, guys not doing suited powerlifting loaded up on a ton of drugs (Louie says naturals are bunch pussies). I think it's too complicated, and "dynamic effort" work is pretty damn ridiculous for your clientele. But that's just me... I'm no trainer, especially not for decades such as yourself.
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What a colossal waste of time.
You guys are a fucking joke, you are weightlifting FFS, you're not going on a journey to the far side of the sun.
If you really consider it, everything in life is utterly useless. We can attempt to create meaning out of different things for ourselves... but we'll all be dead very soon. We all do ridiculous things. My friend finds meaning in what he does, I find meaning in bettering my lifts in the gym... it's just my way. What do you do that is so important to humanity? And if we were going to the far side of the sun... what's the use in that? At least my buddy doesn't post on any forums. Here you are wasting precious time trolling and me trying to be all serious with a bunch of jokers LOL.
I'm a Satanist (joke) but this bible verse comes to mind LOL
The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.
All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.
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Has your friend ever considered the deleterious effects that taking an NSAID for such prolonged time can have??
GI track (NSAID's can cause gastric ulcers by way of their ability to reduce the presence of prostaglandins in the epithelial layer of the stomach, which allows for gastric acid to erose the inner lining of the stomach)
Clotting abilities (NSAID's interfere with platelet function)
Overall kidney health (NSAIDs can lead to both acute and chronic kidney injury including hemodynamically-mediated acute kidney injury, electrolyte and acid-base disorders, acute interstitial nephritis, which may be accompanied by the nephrotic syndrome, and papillary necrosis)
Have you spoken to him about this before?
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Of course. His doc keeps writing a script for him so I guess the doc thinks the dose he's on is fine. I'm sure there's tons of people on long term NSAID therapy. But I have said it can be bad, his response is well then I'll have to stop training and working. It's not an option for him. I'm sure he would hang himself before stopping training.
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Of course. His doc keeps writing a script for him so I guess the doc thinks the dose he's on is fine. I'm sure there's tons of people on long term NSAID therapy. But I have said it can be bad, his response is well then I'll have to stop training and working. It's not an option for him. I'm sure he would hang himself before stopping training.
That's what Tom Prince thought as well.... :'(
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That's what Tom Prince thought as well.... :'(
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Yeah but he took like 30 tabs a day, absolutely massive overdoses. Some substances can be quite safe up to a certain level, until you exhaust the antioxidant capability of the liver with an overdose of acetaminophen for example. But I think a few of those NSAIDs have been taken off the market for causing damage even in prescribed doses.
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When I say I go to failure at every workout,I`m not talking about the most weight I have ever used in my life for max reps on an exercise,I`m talking about multiple sets,multiple exercise movements, with muscle failure on each set of said movements.
1 hard workout per month = "over training resting". :D
Poundages do vary on these movements from week to week, but I`m not trying to set strength records,I`m just training as hard as I can on any given day according to how I feel.
I could give 2 flying fucks if I ever deadlift 600 pounds.
Let me ask you a serious question. I'm not trying to put you down, just trying to make a point. How much lean bodyweight have put on in the past 10-20 years?
(if you did deadlift 600lbs at your age and weight you would be one thick son a of a bitch, belee dat)
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when I used to train as a PLer I was fucked all the time, could only train a couple of work sets, and only 3 training sessions a week...we all needed Ammonia and handfuls of ephedrine to function.
It takes it out of you, especially in single ply (much heavier weights than your CNS is designed to handle). Lowering 600-700 to your chest or some stupid boards every week, pulling 700-800 in briefs or in bands, always doing triples, using chains etc, all destroys you
its absolutely the worst possible way to train for bodybuilding, despite what Dante Strudle and Jason Manboobs say, these days I do moderate weight, lots of sets and can train 5-6 days a week without feeling in the least bit ground down.
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I want to train with Coach Joe but I'm dark.
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Let me ask you a serious question. I'm not trying to put you down, just trying to make a point. How much lean bodyweight have put on in the past 10-20 years?
(if you did deadlift 600lbs at your age and weight you would be one thick son a of a bitch, belee dat)
I definiately see your point,but we were talking about training to failure.
Can`t compare bodybuilding workouts to powerlifting workouts IMO.
I started out competing in powerlifting back in the early to mid 70`s,so I`ve done both.
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Yes of course he can be right. But the point is he has an opinion on something he never did himself. So is personal experience always necessary?
If it is then Coach can only advice on reaching this level. A tiny tit, a good looking tiny tit but a tiny tit nonetheless :D:
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e196/Intenseone/Joe_Marino_28129.jpg)
Certainly you can produce a pic destroying this Tiny tit....with your amazing drug knowlege..Oh wait, i think I've seen a pic of you once...Do you even lift? lol
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Van, here is something I think you should read because coming from me isn't going to mean anything to you. As you know I'm a big westside fan as well as Louie Simmons. You do have guys like Chad Wesley Smith who downplays the Westside method in favor of his Juggernaut system but he's still young and although strong, I don't buy into his system simply because he hasn't been around long enough. But hey, if it works for someone then all the power to them. But I've been using the Westside template for years because it works. Of course I don't use it on everyone but as far as my athletes, I can't think of a better strength system. Circa max IMO, is just Max effort or 5% or so below.
There are three methods of strength training.
1. Maximal effort method: lifting a maximal load against a maximal resistance.
2. Repetition method: lifting a nonmaximal load to failure; during the final repetitions, the muscles develop the maximum force possible in a fatigued state.
3. Dynamic effort: lifting a nonmaximal load with maximal speed.
(See: Science and Practice of Strength Training, V. Zatsiorsky.)
The max effort method is superior to the other common methods. It improves intermuscular and intramuscular coordination, because the body will adapt to only the stimulus placed upon it. The max effort method will produce the greatest strength gains. While it is not uncommon to suffer fatigue, high blood pressure at rest, anxiety, and depression from using this method, it is the most popular among top athletes and lifters. It should not be used for small exercises but for the clean, snatch, squat, bench, and deadlift.
The old Soviet Union used it and Westside Barbell uses it for special exercises such as good mornings, box squats, rack pulls, and many forms of squatting. Because the body muscular system and the CNS adapt quickly, we do a new exercise each week to avoid accommodation. The core exercises must be close in biomechanical parameters to the classical lifts, power or Olympic. Doctor Squat said it best, “If light weights make you strong, why not lift just light weights?” Of course we know he was right, and that’s why the max effort method works best.
Hill determined that the speed of movement is dependent on maximum muscular strength. Did you hear that, football strength coaches? Physics states that maximum force is attained when velocity is small. Consequently, maximum velocity is attained when external resistance is near zero (Theory and Practice of Physical Culture). Why do I bring this up? Do you want to be faster and stronger?
A study in Strength and Power in Sport by P. Komi showed the greatest weightlifters in the world lifted the heaviest weights the slowest. This simply shows it is better to have a high level of strength over speed. I have been using this system at Westside since 1983. I started talking about the books I was learning from by Bud Charniga, who had translated them from Russian. Many have read some of the books, but have not considered the number of lifts, or the percentages that are determined with the Olympic lifts. This will not work with the power lifts.
Olympic lifts have a bar speed of 1.2 to 1.4 meters per second (mps) in the first pull. A second pull of 2.2 mps can be attained. Top powerlifts are 0.5 to 0.7 mps. Olympic lifting is primarily a speed strength sport. The time under tension is brief. The powerlifts are quite a different story. It is a strength speed or slow strength sport. This means the training percentages would be somewhat higher. Even Olympic lifts are seldom less than 70% of a one-rep max.
Statistics that showed the breakdown of Olympic lifts by percents of a one-rep max showed the distributions of loads as follows:
49.5% of the lifts are from 75% to 85%
27.1% of the lifts are above 85%
Remember, this is based on Olympic lifts, which are much faster than powerlifts. While max force production occurs at 4 tenths of a second, you must maintain it until the lift is complete. As mentioned, 85% of a one-rep max is used the most, so we try to wave from 75% to 85% in three-week waves. Only 23.4% of the lifts are performed at 70% or below of a one-rep max. These statistics were based on 780 highly qualified weightlifters. The study was done by A. D. Ermakov and N. S. Atanasov in 1975.
The Westside max effort method is a combination of the Bulgarian system, the former Soviet Union system, and my 43 years of powerlifting with over 85 Elite powerlifters. There are all body types in powerlifting, as you well know. The Soviet Union was very vast geographically, leading to different body types and ethnic groups to choose from. This means they used a lot of exercises to develop their lifters’ shortcomings. Sounds just like Westside.
In the book Strength and Power in Sport by P. Komi, A. Vorobyev states that the Soviet team would do 20,000 lifts, classical and special combined, per year. Of those, 600 were maximal lifts (new records). The lifters were chosen after a three-year preparatory phase of base work was performed to ensure they were suited to handle the work loads, physical and psychologically. This is known as the “rule of three”. The Soviet weightlifters were more diversified than their Bulgarian counterparts.
While the Soviet team was tremendous, the Bulgarian team was amazing, under coach Ivan Abadjiev. The Bulgarian team would choose only model weightlifters, meaning they fit the height and weight index. Bulgaria is about the size of Ohio. Both the junior and senior national teams trained together under a few coaches led tightly by Abadjiev. It was his way or no way. If a lifter could not handle the stress of constantly using max or near-max lifts, they were replaced, whereas the Soviet team did two workouts a day, which were composed of pulls, good mornings, and squats.
Westside also trains two times a day; the difference is the second workout, which is directed toward a specific body part or parts, such as low back, lats, and abs or triceps, traps, and hammer curls. The Bulgarian coach, Abadjiev, chose to limit the training to six lifts: power snatch, snatch, power clean, clean and jerk, and front and back squat. After warming up they would do 6 max singles in the power snatch or snatch. This was done in 45 minutes to keep testosterone levels as high as possible. Then, they took a 30-minute rest and then did power clean and jerks, clean and jerks, or front or back squats. This amounts to 18 near-max lifts that are done every day, one in the morning session, again in the afternoon, and the third one in the evening. This added up to 18 near-max lifts in one day. The pulls and squats were trained this way all the time. Remember, they were very select in choosing the lifters who could handle the stress of training like this 6 days a week plus formally structured training on good mornings and back squats. Their system is what I based our max effort days on.
Max effort days are lifting as heavy as possible depending on the lifter’s capabilities at the present time. This means that even though you may not be going to a contest, you are training like the lifters that are. Let’s look at the two systems. The majority of the Soviet training was centered around 75-85% of a one-rep max for about 50% of all lifts, and 20% are done at 90-100%. The Bulgarians trained mostly at 90-100% max. Circa-max weights are 90-97%. The Bulgarian system produced the highest results in weightlifting. Why? They handled the highest average weights most often. It’s that simple. Yes, they had used a very select group of lifters, but that system was the best.
I had the pleasure of spending a day at Westside with a former Bulgarian weightlifting team doctor. He said many could not perform the tasks asked of the lifters. More times than not, it was the psychological stress and not the physical demands that stopped the lifter’s progress. I have seen the same at Westside. Handling weights above 90% for 3 weeks in the classical lifts can cause a lack of progress from accommodation or not varying the routine. At Westside, we change the max effort lift each week. This avoids the staleness syndrome, by doing exercises that are similar to but not actually the regular squat, bench press, and deadlift.
Westside has developed a system of maxing out on nonclassical lifts. This allows us to eliminate the negative responses of training close to a maximum competition weight. The same negative response can occur with the special lifts Westside uses to max out on if we repeated the same lift each week. But remember we switch lifts every week to avoid this. You must remember the muscles and CNS adapt only to the load placed upon them. Zatsiorsky states that the maximal effort method brings forth the greatest strength increments, and CNS inhibition, if it exists, is reduced with this approach.
Now we know that the max effort method is superior to others. One must train at the highest average of a one-rep max as often as possible. I realized for most lifters this is impossible to do every workout. That’s why we use the dynamic effort method. We use sub-maximal weights with maximal speed. Our squat training is mostly around 75-85% for multiple sets with briefs and a belt. Remember what Doctor Squat said? “If light weights work, why not use light weights?” But they don’t.
When Chuck Vogelpohl trained at Westside, he handled the heaviest average weights when he squatted and deadlifted. He was our best squatter, setting world records in the 220 and 275 weight classes and now at 242 in a different gym. Now Greg Panora handles the heaviest weights if you average the squat, bench press, and deadlift, and he has dominated the 242 world record total. Look at Big Iron and I am sure you will see the same.
Zatsiorsky states “It’s impossible to exert a large amount of force against a small mass.” Dr. Hatfield was right. The men and women who can recruit the most muscle units are the strongest. The maximal effort method does just that. The next best method is the circa-max method, which uses 90-97˝ % of a one-rep max. The circa-max method differs in that it can include multiple sets of 1 or 2 reps per set up to 10 total lifts per workout. It is worth noting that the Bulgarians had great restoration methods, such as whirlpools, saunas, massage, and others at their disposal.
You seldom calculate weights under 70%. The Soviets’ and Westside training is very similar in that the squats and pulls are mostly in the 75% to 85% range on dynamic day and always working up to a current max on max effort day. Remember, some supportive gear is almost always worn. On dynamic bench day, the percent is very low, 40-50%, but no gear is worn and there are always bands or chains on the bar. When the dynamic method is used, the muscles are contracted very fast and forcefully. I would personally experience more soreness on speed day. The dynamic method was developed to replace a max effort day for those who could not handle two max effort workouts a week. This helped me in the early years (1983) to recover from a bad back injury. I could not handle two max effort lower and upper body workouts per week, so we changed over to the dynamic method to make one day a fast day, not a light day, and keep the heavy day, or max effort day, because we knew the heaviest weight lifted in the gym would materialize into meet records if done correctly.
On dynamic day, stay with the percent program. Use a suit with the straps down or briefs only. Train in a 3-week pendulum wave at 50-60% of a contest max. The following are examples:
400 to 480 pounds training weight = 800 squat
450 to 540 = 900 squat
500 to 600 = 1000 squat
Also use chains or bands.
This is very systematic, but as you can see, with this mathematical formula the stronger squatter uses the heaviest weights; it’s that simple. So use the max effort method to set standards,.
In 1974 Prilepin carried out a series of experiments with high-level weightlifters. One group trained at 70% of a one-rep max. The second group used 80% of a one-rep max, and a third group used weights at 90% of a one-rep max based on his recommendations. His research found training at 90% was the most effective, 80% was the next best, and the least effective was the 70% weight. The conclusion was that training at the greater weights produced the most significant gains. Prilepin also found the best results regarding percents came from using an optimal number of lifts: 18 lifts at 70%, 15 lifts at 80%, and 7 lifts at 90%.
While this article is about max effort, the other day is just as important. Prilepin also found that it was less fatiguing to do a higher number of sets and a lower number of reps. The reverse will lead to a distortion of technique. This was taken from the textbook Physical Culture Institutes by A. M. Vorobiev.
I hope these examples have shown you what is truly important about building absolute strength. It is based on both the dynamic and max effort day. As Lelikov proved, muscle strength increases more in execution at moderate tempo, while the fast lifts gave the lowest increase in strength. If you are wondering about only the classical lifts, Medvedyev found the same to be true in special exercises as well when one becomes more proficient in the classical lifts (Weightlifting and Methods of Teaching).
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Van, here is something I think you should read because coming from me isn't going to mean anything to you. As you know I'm a big westside fan as well as Louie Simmons. You do have guys like Chad Wesley Smith who downplays the Westside method in favor of his Juggernaut system but he's still young and although strong, I don't buy into his system simply because he hasn't been around long enough. But hey, if it works for someone then all the power to them. But I've been using the Westside template for years because it works. Of course I don't use it on everyone but as far as my athletes, I can't think of a better strength system. Circa max IMO, is just Max effort or 5% or so below.
There are three methods of strength training.
2. Repetition method: lifting a nonmaximal load to failure; during the final repetitions, the muscles develop the maximum force possible in a fatigued state.
^^THIS^^ is what I`m talking about,and I do this 5 days a week.
My CNS is just fine.
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Just wanted to add that I would much rather look like Joe in either his older pics or the newer ones that the guy Van. B posted.
Not a dig at Van,I`m just a fan of human beings. ;)
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Just wanted to add that I would much rather look like Joe in either his older pics or the newer ones that the guy Van. B posted.
Not a dig at Van,I`m just a fan of human beings. ;)
lol
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I want to train with Coach Joe but I'm dark.
And a sissy.
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And a sissy.
Yes I am :-[
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Certainly you can produce a pic destroying this Tiny tit....with your amazing drug knowlege..Oh wait, i think I've seen a pic of you once...Do you even lift? lol
what does that have to do with anything?
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^^THIS^^ is what I`m talking about,and I do this 5 days a week.
My CNS is just fine.
Of course this is a sort of strength, but c`mon Wes if you have trained powerlifting, you must have had one repetitions lift (max) where you try and try
and the bar moves so slowly that you want to quit, but you don`t, and after many seconds you make it (or fail).
You know that you can not be as strong as that time
one or more weeks after :), as Van said, and that must be agree with him.
The other things about drogs etc ,I don`t have so much knowledge so I can discuss it
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Of course this is a sort of strength, but c`mon Wes if you have trained powerlifting, you must have had one repetitions lift (max) where you try and try
and the bar moves so slowly that you want to quit, but you don`t, and after many seconds you make it (or fail).
You know that you can not be as strong as that time
one or more weeks after :), as Van said, and that must be agree with him.
The other things about drogs etc ,I don`t have so much knowledge so I can discuss it
Yes,I agree,if I did that I wouldn`t go as heavy again on that particular lift for a while..........this would be a form of periodization.
I use periodization in my training today,but for bodybuilding since the loads are not as demanding poundagewise,I can train intensely at every session,and I`m working different bodyparts at every session.
Two different animals.
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I never troll, it's not my style. I may joke a little here and there but then it's obvious. I leave the trolling to guys like you and Alex etc.
The reason I mentioned the painkillers is to make the point that all powerlifters work through aches and pains, something always hurts. My training partner
has taken diklofenac, an NSAID, every day for 10 years straight. He simply can't function without it. He does use codeine (with APAP), about 60mg which is a small dose, 3 or 4 days per week because his shoulder is so bad the pain would be too much without it.
The painkillers have nothing to do with the inability to recover instantaneously after hitting a PR (after training for 30 years every PR in the main powerlifts is a huge thing, sometimes it has taken a few years of brutal training to even add 10lbs to a lift).
Coach said something about painkillers braking down the CNS. I really want to hear this, never heard of such (quite possible I missed something with my google-fu). Sort of an aside, but I read that the old Russian weightlifting manuals mentioned they added small amounts of opiates as a recovery tool during the most taxing training periods. Coach mentions Westside powerlifters quite often, maybe he should ask around how many of those guys live on painkillers LOL. Some of these guys can't even lift their arm to drink a coffee, have to walk backwards down a flight of stairs, take a hot bath in the morning to even get out of the house LOL
I just came back from the gym, my friend missed his deadlift attempt. In his words, "That squat single on monday took too much out of me, I'm too beat up, I knew I should've taken an easy deadlift recovery session today and attempted next friday instead". This guy ain't no newbie or pussy, he has an IPF World's Gold medal in the deadlift.
If you get to the point where you become opiate tolerant you can train very hard pretty much everyday. I wouldn"t recommend it because once you become opiate tolerant it is a bitch to get off the pills. I am sure evrybody knows that. Opiates numb out alot of pain once you become tolerant and can actually train while on them.
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If you get to the point where you become opiate tolerant you can train very hard pretty much everyday. I wouldn"t recommend it because once you become opiate tolerant it is a bitch to get off the pills. I am sure evrybody knows that. Opiates numb out alot of pain once you become tolerant and can actually train while on them.
most of the opiate abusers get to tired after a couple of years abuse to train. First year they dont but then.
and with abusers i meab those who takes 4-5 Times what the doctor describes
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I`ve yet to see a hard training junkie.
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Yes,I agree,if I did that I wouldn`t go as heavy again on that particular lift for a while..........this would be a form of periodization.
I use periodization in my training today,but for bodybuilding since the loads are not as demanding poundagewise,I can train intensely at every session,and I`m working different bodyparts at every session.
Two different animals.
Yes different I agree but both can benefit from each other with smart planning and periodization, right? at least it worked well for me :)
In regards to the powerliftings max lifts if you did that lift with squat or deathlift, you
get pretty fuckt up in almost all the big muscles of your body except maybe the pecs.
I know if you are a bodybuilder after that sort of lift you can continue training after a few days those muscles not so involved in the lift.Me, I overtrain all the time now because my brain need it ;D
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Yes different I agree but both can benefit from each other with smart planning and periodization, right? at least it worked well for me :)
In regards to the powerliftings max lifts if you did that lift with squat or deathlift, you
get pretty fuckt up in almost all the big muscles of your body except maybe the pecs.
I know if you are a bodybuilder after that sort of lift you can continue training after a few days those muscles not so involved in the lift.Me, I overtrain all the time now because my brain need it ;D
I have no brain my friend. :D
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Van, here is something I think you should read because coming from me isn't going to mean anything to you. As you know I'm a big westside fan as well as Louie Simmons. You do have guys like Chad Wesley Smith who downplays the Westside method in favor of his Juggernaut system but he's still young and although strong, I don't buy into his system simply because he hasn't been around long enough. But hey, if it works for someone then all the power to them. But I've been using the Westside template for years because it works. Of course I don't use it on everyone but as far as my athletes, I can't think of a better strength system. Circa max IMO, is just Max effort or 5% or so below.
The max effort method will produce the greatest strength gains. While it is not uncommon to suffer fatigue, high blood pressure at rest, anxiety, and depression from using this method, it is the most popular among top athletes and lifters.
Handling weights above 90% for 3 weeks in the classical lifts can cause a lack of progress from accommodation or not varying the routine. At Westside, we change the max effort lift each week. This avoids the staleness syndrome, by doing exercises that are similar to but not actually the regular squat, bench press, and deadlift.
Westside has developed a system of maxing out on nonclassical lifts. This allows us to eliminate the negative responses of training close to a maximum competition weight. The same negative response can occur with the special lifts Westside uses to max out on if we repeated the same lift each week. But remember we switch lifts every week to avoid this.
Now we know that the max effort method is superior to others. One must train at the highest average of a one-rep max as often as possible. I realized for most lifters this is impossible to do every workout.
Westside training is very similar in that the squats and pulls are mostly in the 75% to 85% range on dynamic day and always working up to a current max on max effort day. Remember, some supportive gear is almost always worn.
(My editors note lol... And we always use anabolic steroids and we never come off)
See what I selected from the article. Not taxing on the CNS? LOL. Being depressed and anxious sure is a sign of a fresh CNS. And these are guys on a LOT of drugs. So I don't see where I'm wrong in anything I said.
Coach, I'm open to considering anything you say. Just make a good case for your point and I might change my mind.
here is a comment on steroids by Louie Simmons.
NM: What is your stance on the use of steroids?
LS: The dangers are way overrated. It's corticoid steroids that they inject football players with every day that will kill you! Personally, I've done anabolic steroids straight for the last 28 years.
NM: Do you cycle?
LS: No, I stay on. I don't believe in periodization in training, either. I use mostly anabolics like Equipoise and Laurabolin until it's time for a competition, and then I do the harder androgens. I do not take Anadrol. I've never had any problems. I know guys who take much more than I do, to the point where you can call it abuse, and they don't seem to have any problems, either. There's no possible way I can train the way I do without taking anabolics, but the same techniques of training apply even if you're natural. I've also used the andro products and find that they give a greater boost in aggression than steroids! At least temporarily. I use them right before training.
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I have no brain my friend. :D
Maybe is that what is happening to me :P
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See what I selected from the article. Not taxing on the CNS? LOL. And these are guys on a LOT of drugs. So I don't see where I'm wrong in anything I said.
powned
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I`ve yet to see a hard training junkie.
There used to be a lot of "diet pills" prescribed by docs back in the day, 70s and 80s and I would be very surprised if bodybuilders didn't use them. I doubt it was just Michalik and Mentzer who did speed pills. Michalik was all fucked up on Ritalin doing his ridiculous 100 sets a bodypart routines.
What do you remember about this from back then?
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See what I selected from the article. Not taxing on the CNS? LOL. And these are guys on a LOT of drugs. So I don't see where I'm wrong in anything I said.
Coach, I'm open to considering anything you say. Just make a good case for your point and I might change my mind.
here is a comment on steroids by Louie Simmons.
No shit it's taxing on the CNS, when did I ever say it wasn't? You're saying it takes MONTHS to recover. Not the point whether it's taxing, it better be. It's no secret about the drug use either. I happen to agree with him. What was your point? There is still max to be had each week.
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There used to be a lot of "diet pills" prescribed by docs back in the day, 70s and 80s and I would be very surprised if bodybuilders didn't use them. I doubt it was just Michalik and Mentzer who did speed pills. Michalik was all fucked up on Ritalin doing his ridiculous 100 sets a bodypart routines.
What do you remember about this from back then?
I`ve known guys who took speed before training,but whitewidow is talking about opiates........big big difference.
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No shit it's taxing on the CNS, when did I ever say it wasn't? You're saying it takes MONTHS to recover. Not the point whether it's taxing, it better be. It's no secret about the drug use either. I happen to agree with him. What was your point? There is still max to be had each week.
I made an extreme example, I said it can take months, not that it always takes months. If you do a huge world record PR, where you hit a number where even you surprised yourself. It can take a long time to recover, that's the point. A long grinding deadlift for example, it can feel like all life was sucked out of you and you'll need to downcycle for a few months before you even approach similar numbers again.
It's like these all time world record deadlifts in the superheavyweight class. There is a reason the record was stagnant for 30 years and that new records aren't falling every other week. Sometimes a lifter may only have one or two of these efforts in him in his whole life.
backday has a world record deadlift. Maybe he can tell us how many times he was within 10lbs of that number in his life.
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backday has a world record deadlift. Maybe he can tell us how many times he was within 10lbs of that number in his life.
I never could come near to that weight again after that, but I Was 40 years old
and that was it. The funny thing is that it was my second attempt and maybe maybe
it was a little more in the tank; but my left wing was hurting after the lift, and colled it
a day.My trainer was furious because he thought i hade 5 kilos more in me, but I think I did the right thing and that it was a good enough day ;D
Ah, and yes I got a very lil fiber damage in the left lat from that day
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I never could come near to that weight again after that, but I Was 40 years old
and that was it. The funny thing is that it was my second attempt and maybe maybe
it was a little more in the tank; but my left wing was hurting after the lift, and colled it
a day.My trainer was furious because he thought i hade 5 kilos more in me, but I think I did the right thing and that it was a good enough day ;D
Ah, and yes I got a very lil fiber damage in the left lat from that day
Yes, I agree, if not you may still not have fully recovered. (copyright Van Bilderbass.)
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Yes, I agree, if not you may still not have fully recovered. (copyright Van Bilderbass.)
]Ummmmm do you think that the small fiber damage would have healed with
another max lift?
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I`ve known guys who took speed before training,but whitewidow is talking about opiates........big big difference.
when I was working out at Golds in Venice a lot of the big guys were in to using Nubain before lifting! It was great for gettn over injury's and little aches.
In the long run it was a real scary addicting drug. The guys were sweating like crazy without doing anything.lol
Thank god I never used it but ive heard some terrible story's. To the point were they couldn't work out at all anymore...The End
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]Ummmmm do you think that the small fiber damage would have healed with
another max lift?
Do you think it was damaged at all?
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Do you think it was damaged at all?
Look closely at my avatar, you can still see the difference between the right and left lat( recent pic) :'(
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Look closely at my avatar, you can still see the difference between the right and left lat( recent pic) :'(
Not really, it isnt at all noticeable.
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Not really, it isnt at all noticeable.
Well that`s good if others can`t see it, because I can .Here, pic a little bigger.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/118hseu.jpg)
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Well that`s good if others can`t see it, because I can .Here, pic a little bigger.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/118hseu.jpg)
Really, you are worrying about nothing, its hardly noticeable.
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Well that`s good if others can`t see it, because I can .Here, pic a little bigger.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/118hseu.jpg)
Damn!! Looking great! solid back right here!!
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BACK DAY HAS THAT COOL MUSCLE FIBREAGE GOING ON IN THE MIDDLE..LOTS OF ROWING THERE..
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Really, you are worrying about nothing, its hardly noticeable.
Good to hear :)
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Damn!! Looking great! solid back right here!!
Thanks mate :)
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BACK DAY HAS THAT COOL MUSCLE FIBREAGE GOING ON IN THE MIDDLE..LOTS OF ROWING THERE..
Yep man, rowing yes, but deadlifting a lot more ;D
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Why anyone would want to fuck with insulin is beyond me. Talk about fucking up your metabolic pathways!!
So they can hold 260 solid pounds at age 23.
Guys are bigger than ever before, and they attain it in 2-3 years now.
they're puffy and they look like crap, but they're BIG. We see off-season guys we've never heard of completely dwarfing Phil Heath at autograph signings.
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So they can hold 260 solid pounds at age 23.
Guys are bigger than ever before, and they attain it in 2-3 years now.
they're puffy and they look like crap, but they're BIG. We see off-season guys we've never heard of completely dwarfing Phil Heath at autograph signings.
YEAH THE QUANITY OR QUALITY THEORY..
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backday`s always in shape!!
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backday`s always in shape!!
Just like you my friend, just like you :)
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Really, you are worrying about nothing, its hardly noticeable.
I think the point is not that backday is concerned about aesthetics, but rather with the fact that he tore his lat. And that had he attempted to lift more weight on a second attempt on that day, that he may have caused further damage to his lat.
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I think the point is not that backday is concerned about aesthetics, but rather with the fact that he tore his lat. And that had he attempted to lift more weight on a second attempt on that day, that he may have caused further damage to his lat.
Well I am a lil concerned about aesthetics :).But you are right the lat could eaisly get more damaged with another attempt.To much gambling when I already
had the record.
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Well I am a lil concerned about aesthetics :).But you are right the lat could eaisly get more damaged with another attempt.To much gambling when I already
had the record.
Excuse me.....not AS concerned with aesthetics ;D
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I think the point is not that backday is concerned about aesthetics, but rather with the fact that he tore his lat. And that had he attempted to lift more weight on a second attempt on that day, that he may have caused further damage to his lat.
Always a good idea to call it a day lifting when the muscle is tearing off the tendon, it's the bodies way of saying "its too heavy"
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Excuse me.....not AS concerned with aesthetics ;D
OK then ;D
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Always a good idea to call it a day lifting when the muscle is tearing off the tendon, it's the bodies way of saying "its too heavy"
Can't argue with that :D
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I had been away from deads for a year a while ago and first workout had a small tear on the left side. Next week, same thing on the right side. Forgot to relax my shoulders and not pull with my upper back. :'(
(http://i58.tinypic.com/zy6cxt.jpg)
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I had been away from deads for a year a while ago and first workout had a small tear on the left side. Next week, same thing on the right side. Forgot to relax my shoulders and not pull with my upper back. :'(
(http://i58.tinypic.com/zy6cxt.jpg)
yes.
We should all take your advice. Based on appearance and training prowess.
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yes.
We should all take your advice. Based on appearance and training prowess.
Fucking hell, this guy is all Google and no gumption.
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yes.
We should all take your advice. Based on appearance and training prowess.
You don't have to take anything from anyone "bro". Do what the fuck you want. :D
In that pic I hadn't been in a gym in many months, just started back. For some reason I'm very very injury prone, they call me the porcelain man. I don't "hoist" weight either, very very careful training style these days, the others call me a pussy for being afraid of heavy weights.
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Fucking hell, this guy is all Google and no gumption.
By gumption, do you mean common sense? Or boldness and aggression?
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Just like you my friend, just like you :)
Thanks buddy!! :)
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I had been away from deads for a year a while ago and first workout had a small tear on the left side. Next week, same thing on the right side. Forgot to relax my shoulders and not pull with my upper back. :'(
(http://i58.tinypic.com/zy6cxt.jpg)
Wow,that looks painful Van.
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honest question for Van, how different would Coach have been with this as opposed to the less than one gram he did? how much leaner and heavier would he have been in your expert opinion?
edit....... on getbig this could come across as me being an idiot and clashing with you. not at all. I do respect you as an expert and am truly curious how dramatic a difference 'taking it to the next/highest level' would make.
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By gumption, do you mean common sense? Or boldness and aggression?
No common sense.
As for 'bold and aggressive', I would go with 'foolhardy.'
You clearly dont know your limits.
You look like shit and you are a dumbass in the gym.
Seriously, your are all knowledge and no practice.
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This is definiately the best thread Wolfox ever made! :D
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You don't have to take anything from anyone "bro". Do what the fuck you want. :D
In that pic I hadn't been in a gym in many months, just started back. For some reason I'm very very injury prone, they call me the porcelain man. I don't "hoist" weight either, very very careful training style these days, the others call me a pussy for being afraid of heavy weights.
Im not even trying to harsh on you man.
Its just that common sense dictates that only advice giving from someone who walks the walk is safe advice.
I could read off step by step instructions to installing a turbocharger on a mustang, based on internet findings, but I wouldnt have a fucking clue what I was talking about.
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This is definiately the best thread Wolfox ever made! :D
Yes because he has been out of it a long while :D
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No common sense.
As for 'bold and aggressive', I would go with 'foolhardy.'
You clearly dont know your limits.
You look like shit and you are a dumbass in the gym.
Seriously, your are all knowledge and no practice.
Maybe, maybe not. We haven't trained together so I think it's kind of hard for you to determine that. But I've been training regularly for about 22 years... read bodybuilding magazines for 7 years before that so I had seen routines and read articles, often stupid of course, so I already had a little textbook knowledge from the start. But sure, I could still be a dumbass.
honest question for Van, how different would Coach have been with this as opposed to the less than one gram he did? how much leaner and heavier would he have been in your expert opinion?
edit....... on getbig this could come across as me being an idiot and clashing with you. not at all. I do respect you as an expert and am truly curious how dramatic a difference 'taking it to the next/highest level' would make.
I never called myself an expert. Any fool can write anything here and I'm just one among all the others. But I think conditioning is something that can be controlled and since Coach has a very good structure and has good size he could have won his class without any extra mass just by being the hardest in the class. I don't know what he did exactly for the show with the drugs but my hunch is that he could have been considerably bigger and theoretically had the potential to win the overall. How much bigger exactly he could've been is impossible to say, you have to try it and see.
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Maybe, maybe not. We haven't trained together so I think it's kind of hard for you to determine that. But I've been training regularly for about 22 years... read bodybuilding magazines for 7 years before that so I had seen routines and read articles, often stupid of course, so I already had a little textbook knowledge from the start. But sure, I could still be a dumbass.
I never called myself an expert. Any fool can write anything here and I'm just one among all the others. But I think conditioning is something that can be controlled and since Coach has a very good structure and has good size he could have won his class without any extra mass just by being the hardest in the class. I don't know what he did exactly for the show with the drugs but my hunch is that he could have been considerably bigger and theoretically had the potential to win the overall. How much bigger exactly he could've been is impossible to say, you have to try it and see.
are you ESFitness gimmick account, or vice versa?
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Its just that common sense dictates that only advice giving from someone who walks the walk is safe advice.
Trust me, safety first is my advice always. I may take risks but can't recommend others to do the same. Like my buddy who finished 3rd at the last Euro champs, I tell him to be careful with benches... he still wants to do them, but stops a couple of inches over his chest (a "pussy pad" for squats on the bar). I watch him deadlift and watch so he doesn't bend the supinated arm at all. Things like that.
are you ESFitness gimmick account, or vice versa?
Where are the similarities? There are none. Again, I'm no gimmicker. Though I'm anonymous I never told a single lie here. It's important to me, even if no one would ever know if I lied my ass off.
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Im not even trying to harsh on you man.
Its just that common sense dictates that only advice giving from someone who walks the walk is safe advice.
I could read off step by step instructions to installing a turbocharger on a mustang, based on internet findings, but I wouldnt have a fucking clue what I was talking about.
Good thing many exercised common sense and never listened to Béla Károlyi, Sean Foley, or Greg Jackson
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Good thing many exercised common sense and never listened to Béla Károlyi, Sean Foley, or Greg Jackson
I see what youre getting at. I havent a clue who Bela Karolyi is... but this argument is sort of invalid.
Sean Foley and Greg Jackson DO walk the walk. Sean Foley WILL out golf you and Greg Jackson WILL fuck you up in a fight.
Failure to compete in ones skill isn't indicative of "not walking the walk". Maybe limited by physical short comings, or just a downright lack of god given talent; but they do "walk the walk" so to speak.
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Karolyi from Wiki :D
Several of Károlyi's athletes from the six-pack era were critical of his training methods. Some of his former athletes, including Kristie Phillips, Dominique Moceanu, and Erica Stokes, have stated publicly that Károlyi was verbally and psychologically abusive during workouts. Károlyi's constant critical remarks about weight and body type were said to drive some gymnasts to develop eating disorders and low self-esteem.[17] Some gymnasts, such as Phillips, Moceanu, and 1988 Olympian Chelle Stack, have noted that they were also compelled to continue training and competing even when coping with serious injuries such as broken bones.[17] In one interview, Moceanu, who was one of Károlyi's final protégés, noted: "I'm sure Bela saw injuries, but if you were injured, Bela didn't want to see it...You had to deal with it. I was intimidated. He looked down on me. He was 6-feet something, and I was 4-foot nothing."[18]
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/B%C3%A9la_K%C3%A1rolyi.JPG/338px-B%C3%A9la_K%C3%A1rolyi.JPG)
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Karolyi from Wiki :D
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/B%C3%A9la_K%C3%A1rolyi.JPG/338px-B%C3%A9la_K%C3%A1rolyi.JPG)
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45561000/jpg/_45561755_fritzlafp226282.jpg)
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looks like a fucking chester
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I see what youre getting at. I havent a clue who Bela Karolyi is... but this argument is sort of invalid.
Sean Foley and Greg Jackson DO walk the walk. Sean Foley WILL out golf you and Greg Jackson WILL fuck you up in a fight.
Failure to compete in ones skill isn't indicative of "not walking the walk". Maybe limited by physical short comings, or just a downright lack of god given talent; but they do "walk the walk" so to speak.
Yes, Foley and Jackson will. No doubt. But have either been under the pressure of a "pro" event? No. Neither have had to prep for such events. In the case of Foley, he only competed on the varsity team of a college yet he has a number of high level PGA tour guys coming to him. So, if you are cutting Van down because he doesn't have an Olympia caliber body and thus his advice is bad shouldn't you apply that same logic to both Jackson and Foley?
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Yes, Foley and Jackson will. No doubt. But have either been under the pressure of a "pro" event? No. Neither have had to prep for such events. In the case of Foley, he only competed on the varsity team of a college yet he has a number of high level PGA tour guys coming to him. So, if you are cutting Van down because he doesn't have an Olympia caliber body and thus his advice is bad shouldn't you apply that same logic to both Jackson and Foley?
Im not trying to cut the guy down, I have nothing against him at all. Im sure hes a real good dude etc.
but
College varsity/Amateur is a step below being a Pro. Its still a high level, way better than Joe Blow weekend golfer.
I dont think Van's skillset is even close to being considered high level. Van=/= Foley, jackson etc.
Once again, just observing, not knocking him, but he has no size from the look of that picture, has torn both his lats deadlifting... something is missing. He even stated it was due to him making a mistake.
I find myself talking more shit on Van than I want to, I mean him no disrespect. Just stating facts.
I see your argument, I just dont see a real life correlation between the instructors/coaches you mentioned and van
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Im not trying to cut the guy down, I have nothing against him at all. Im sure hes a real good dude etc.
but
College varsity/Amateur is a step below being a Pro. Its still a high level, way better than Joe Blow weekend golfer.
I dont think Van's skillset is even close to being considered high level. Van=/= Foley, jackson etc.
Once again, just observing, not knocking him, but he has no size from the look of that picture, has torn both his lats deadlifting... something is missing. He even stated it was due to him making a mistake.
I find myself talking more shit on Van than I want to, I mean him no disrespect. Just stating facts.
I see your argument, I just dont see a real life correlation between the instructors/coaches you mentioned and van
You're right, I'm a nobody, never said any different. I'm not a coach and not an expert. Sure I have opinions and this forum is open for opinions from anybody.
What are your credentials? Shows won etc?
As far as injuries, anyone can have them, doesn't matter what you know. All the powerlifting greats are a mess. Most bodybuilders have torn something.
There's a dude called Dave Tate who knows a lot about powerlifting, was an elite powerlifter etc. He's a coach and highly respected. Here's his injury list from powerlifting.
"Unfortunately, my injury total has also been accumulating. Here's a brief summary of all my major injuries, starting with my first one in 1986. I'll begin with the calves and move up. Also keep in mind that these are just the major ones that left me immobile for more than a week:
• Calves: I've torn both of them, leaving a huge indentation in each.
• Right Knee: Back in the late 80's I strained my ACL and that left me on crutches for two weeks. I've had three other similar strains since that time.
• Right Hamstring: I tore this hamstring so badly that I nearly needed surgery to fix it.
• Left Knee: I've partially torn my patellar tendon. This wasn't bad, pain-wise, but it did mess up my squatting for four months.
• Quad: I pulled my right quad in the early 90's. It was so bad that it turned my entire leg black.
• Groin: I've injured my groin on both the right and left sides. This was a year of hell where there was nothing I could do to get it fixed. So I just wrapped it up and dealt with it. After a year it got better.
• Lower Abdominal: I tore my lower abdominal muscles seven years ago. I did this while squatting and it was perhaps the most painful injury I've ever had.
• Spine: The following discs are herniated: L4, L5, C4, C5. C4 and C5 left my hand numb for a few months. L4 and L5 occurred over 14 years ago and required me to take two months off training
• Intercostals: I've strained two on each side over the past ten years.
• Left pec: I tore this muscle at the tendon and needed surgery to repair it.
• Right pec: I tore this muscle in half but decided to not have surgery since the tendon was still attached.
• Both pecs: I've torn each at least 20 times and each time caused the entire pec to turn black and blue. All of these happened before the above pec injuries.
• Right shoulder: I've had a torn supraspinatus, bone spurs, and now have arthritis. I had this shoulder cleaned up with the AC shaved down to allow more movement, but am now experiencing almost all the same ailments in the same shoulder. Doctors are talking replacement.
• Left shoulder: This one also has arthritis, but isn't as bad as the other."
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You're right, I'm a nobody, never said any different. I'm not a coach and not an expert. Sure I have opinions and this forum is open for opinions from anybody.
What are your credentials? Shows won etc?
As far as injuries, anyone can have them, doesn't matter what you know. All the powerlifting greats are a mess. Most bodybuilders have torn something.
I have no credentials at all. Im 510 215ish with around 12% bodyfat. I would be peeled on stage at 185 pounds top. Ive never taken anything other test and never in greater dosages than a few hundred mg, never even up 500mg.
Im a weekend warrior hardly even juiced up, good size, kinda soft, etc.
but here is the kicker; I keep my dumb fucking mouth shut about things I have no business talking about, or haven't personally done myself.
search through my history, you wont find one post of me giving any advice about topics foreign to me. I dont talk about powerlifting because I dont know a lot about it, nor do I care to, tbh.
I know a little about low dose gear, and having bigger arms than joe blow standing next to me at any given place, tis about it.
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I have no credentials at all. Im 510 215ish with around 12% bodyfat. I would be peeled on stage at 185 pounds top. Ive never taken anything other test and never in greater dosages than a few hundred mg, never even up 500mg.
Im a weekend warrior hardly even juiced up, good size, kinda soft, etc.
but here is the kicker; I keep my dumb fucking mouth shut about things I have no business talking about, or haven't personally done myself.
search through my history, you wont find one post of me giving any advice about topics foreign to me. I dont talk about powerlifting because I dont know a lot about it, nor do I care to, tbh.
I know a little about low dose gear, and having bigger arms than joe blow standing next to me at any given place, tis about it.
and yet you seem more than a little interested in discrediting van, who gives advice about "topics foreign" to you...
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but here is the kicker; I keep my dumb fucking mouth shut about things I have no business talking about, or haven't personally done myself.
search through my history, you wont find one post of me giving any advice about topics foreign to me.
There's different ways to see this. I saw the seminar where George Farrah dissed Hany Rambod because he hasn't applied his theories on himself. But still pros search his advice for whatever reason. Same with Chad Nicholls. I happen to think Farrah seems like a real retard, "eggwhites aren't absorbed by the body". If I wanted to fuck up my arms with Synthol I might ask Farrah for advice. :D
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and yet you seem more than a little interested in discrediting van, who gives advice about "topics foreign" to you...
Provide examples please.
There's different ways to see this. I saw the seminar where George Farrah dissed Hany Rambod because he hasn't applied his theories on himself. But still pros search his advice for whatever reason. Same with Chad Nicholls. I happen to think Farrah seems like a real retard, "eggwhites aren't absorbed by the body". If I wanted to fuck up my arms with Synthol I might ask Farrah for advice. :D
I get that point actually.
Both Farrah and Hany have brought competitors in top shape. Even though Hany hasnt ever competed, or even lift ??? he HAS proven himself to be a good coach.
Thanks for not taking anything personal btw. Shit kicker above is attempting instigate, but its unnecessary, this an adult discussion, there is no name calling etc.
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Provide examples please.
I get that point actually.
Both Farrah and Hany have brought competitors in top shape. Even though Hany hasnt ever competed, or even lift ??? he HAS proven himself to be a good coach.
Thanks for not taking anything personal btw. Shit kicker above is attempting instigate, but its unnecessary, this an adult discussion, there is no name calling etc.
lol, you and jeff have been on his case all thread. for example, just one page ago:
yes.
We should all take your advice. Based on appearance and training prowess.
now you realize you can't win, so you're settling for peace with van and shifting your attention to an "easier target" (me)...
more transparent a cutler-esque "muscle tear"
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lol, you and jeff have been on his case all thread. for example, just one page ago:
now you realize you can't win, so you're settling for peace with van and shifting your attention to an "easier target" (me)...
more transparent a cutler-esque "muscle tear"
Nah. Although you are indeed an "easier target"- thats not what I was doing. Van was hit up, he kept his cool, which is indicative of someone who isnt BSing. You tried to instigate. Youre a shit talker, its all good.
Ill admit, I was a bit of a smart ass, who cares. Is he full of shit? Maybe, who knows, Im a skeptic of most. I personally wouldnt ask for his advice, but that is me.
Does my opinion matter? I really hope not.
Simmer down "cpshieis"
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These lists of injuries are a good reality check as to just how fucking retarded Powerlifting is.
Destroy every joint in your body, look like shit, take years off your life walking around with borderline type 2 and holding 40lbs of water in the sausage-rolls on the back of your neck
But but but DENSITY ::)
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These lists of injuries are a good reality check as to just how fucking retarded Powerlifting is.
Destroy every joint in your body, look like shit, take years off your life walking around with borderline type 2 and holding 40lbs of water in the sausage-rolls on the back of your neck
But but but DENSITY ::)
It's not like every powerlifter has an injury list that long.
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These lists of injuries are a good reality check as to just how fucking retarded Powerlifting is.
Destroy every joint in your body, look like shit, take years off your life walking around with borderline type 2 and holding 40lbs of water in the sausage-rolls on the back of your neck
But but but DENSITY ::)
Nah you can`t generalize as if every powerlifter gets so many injurys and
look like that or die by 50-60.
I hate ;D to put me as an exempel but here we go.
63 years old, lifting heavy,not major injuries and not so bad shape:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/21c9x6s.jpg)
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Nah you can`t generalize as if every powerlifter gets so many injurys and
look like that or die by 50-60.
I hate ;D to put me as an exempel but here we go.
63 years old, lifting heavy,not major injuries and not so bad shape:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/21c9x6s.jpg)
Do you field a lot of compliments in regards to your tummy pubes?
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Do you field a lot of compliments in regards to your tummy pubes?
Yes, yes, yes :-* :-*