Has the PDI released a contest schedule for 2007? Do they not plan on ever having a webpage?
I'll go you one better....introducing the FIVE newest members!!
I'll go you one better....introducing the FIVE newest members!!
AGAIN GOOD BOY ROLL OVER GET A BELLY RUB....LOL! I never understood why IFBB boys really care as to why people are going to the PDI. Bodybuilding is a job too. In the real world, you go where you feel the money and work is best for you. In professional sports, trades happen all the time. Only in BBDG do people act like sucks. If a person wants to join the PDI, then its that person's business and knowone elses. Its about professionalism.
AGAIN GOOD BOY ROLL OVER GET A BELLY RUB....
LOL! I never understood why IFBB boys really care as to why people are going to the PDI. Bodybuilding is a job too. In the real world, you go where you feel the money and work is best for you. In professional sports, trades happen all the time. Only in BBDG do people act like sucks. If a person wants to join the PDI, then its that person's business and knowone elses. Its about professionalism.
PB
AGAIN GOOD BOY ROLL OVER GET A BELLY RUB....
None of those. They're all IFBB guys. I'm thinking someone not happy with his placings... Ronnie Rockel would kick butt over there.
Didn't the village people perform at a Mr.Olympia contest about 10 years ago?
Ronnie Rockel would make more contest money with the PDI than with IFBB, plus it would be extremely easy for him to compete in both federations as European Economic law would laughing the IFBB's "You can only compete with us" rules out the window. It would be change your rules or no shows in Europe.
lmao...it never fails!
the ifbb slammin' the PDI whenever they get the chance....gotta love it tho! haha
i just hope for your sake they don't survive long enough to make you eat your words! ;)
"European economic law"??
The IFBB is INTERNATIONAL...thus the title I.NTERNATIONAL F.ederation of B.ody B.uilders
You dont know what you're talking about.
Funny thing is...no one instructs me to do or say anything. I've talked to Manion a handful of times over the past 2 months, never once brought it up. Whats hard for you guys to understand is that no one from the IFBB really gives a shit about the PDI...they showed this past year that they are no real threat, no mass exodus of talent, no sponsors to speak of, no audience...
It's just slinging some shit around...no different than any of you do on a regular basis about the IFBB...
You can "dumb it down" all you want.
Ronny Rockel and any other IFBB pro signs the dotted line and agree to abide by the rules set forth. Those rules specifically state that you cannot compete for, or make appearances for any other rival federation, etc.....
Please list all the court ordered judgements for an athlete against the IFBB to be allowed to do either/or while maintaining membership in the IFBB...
I'll be waiting for your list.
Oh, they care, and you know it.....All you do is talk about PDI....Steve Weinberger(that is his name right?) was at the show, to see about it. Hell, he tried to pick fights with several of us. You know as well as I do, that manion, you and the rest care about the PDI........No audience? How about a sold out show? No talent???? Please, you need to come to a show.
Now go ahead and Bash me Chick, and say how I suck as a bodybuilder, and make yourself look like an idiot.....
And another thing, Guy.....Where is my rebuttal????? Thought you were gonna give me a chance to rebut your statements about how Chick said I never won the North America?
You guys say you don't care, and yet, here you are posting away on a PDI thread........
One last thought, grundy, who is freinds with chick, gives me a crappy writeup in musclemag, then you turn several pages, and another writer, who is not alligned with the ifbb writes great things about me.......Same mag?
Interesting.
I'm sorry lee...did I hurt your feelings?
Don't sell yourself short, Rhino...your a tremendous slouch.
And don't kid yourself...no one cares, except to throw the occasional jab, or poke fun of.
BTW...what "sold out show"?? There's a difference between "sold out" and "gave away 90% of the seats"...thats the fact, Jack. They gave away far less in Europe which resulted in a whopping 200 seats filled.
Don't get too upset, brother...as I've said...every sport needs a minor league.
You can "dumb it down" all you want.
Ronny Rockel and any other IFBB pro signs the dotted line and agree to abide by the rules set forth. Those rules specifically state that you cannot compete for, or make appearances for any other rival federation, etc.....
Please list all the court ordered judgements for an athlete against the IFBB to be allowed to do either/or while maintaining membership in the IFBB...
I'll be waiting for your list.
ITS OK I AM ALRIGHT BUT YOU LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT...BUT HEY WHY CHANGE
Don't sell yourself short, Rhino...your a tremendous slouch.
And don't kid yourself...no one cares, except to throw the occasional jab, or poke fun of.
BTW...what "sold out show"?? There's a difference between "sold out" and "gave away 90% of the seats"...thats the fact, Jack. They gave away far less in Europe which resulted in a whopping 200 seats filled.
Don't get too upset, brother...as I've said...every sport needs a minor league.
Funny thing is...no one instructs me to do or say anything. I've talked to Manion a handful of times over the past 2 months, never once brought it up. Whats hard for you guys to understand is that no one from the IFBB really gives a shit about the PDI...they showed this past year that they are no real threat, no mass exodus of talent, no sponsors to speak of, no audience...
It's just slinging some shit around...no different than any of you do on a regular basis about the IFBB...
You can "dumb it down" all you want.
Ronny Rockel and any other IFBB pro signs the dotted line and agree to abide by the rules set forth. Those rules specifically state that you cannot compete for, or make appearances for any other rival federation, etc.....
Please list all the court ordered judgements for an athlete against the IFBB to be allowed to do either/or while maintaining membership in the IFBB...
I'll be waiting for your list.
Yeah you're right...I dont want to look like an idiot.
Yeah you're right...I dont want to look like an idiot.
Well I see even though I dumbed it down you still didn't understand what I was saying. The IFBB is using what would be considered monopolistic practises and as such anyone who bought these practises in a case against the IFBB would win. Ronny, Lee or you can sign whatever you want, wouldn't make any difference as the IFBB is using monopolistic practises to control the market. You think the any case is going to base on whether someone is keeping the contract they signed or not? Is the IFBB's defence going to be "but he signed a contract"...No it will be a case based on the IFBB anti-competitive practises and the restrictions it places on independent contractors.
If the IFBB was so confident it is the premier bodybuilding federation, as you always state, open up the market and let it compete on a fair playing field ...oh know it won't because it keeps these rules in place even though it isn't scared of competition ::)
I DON'T GET IT....CAUSE YOU DO JUST BEING YOU ON STAGE.. DOES IT.....YOU WOULDNT PLACE IN A PDI SHOW SO I UNDERSTAND YOUR ANGER...BUT ITS COOL....
Man...I look good on that poster.....
Oh Lee.....Always tells it like it is....(LOL).
Get ready Lee, this is where chick begins to say how I suck and am built like a refreigerator.....
First off no one believes you about Manion. Second when someone doesn't care about something they usually never mention it or think about it. YOU on the other hand ALWAYS bring up the PDI. SO it is obvious to everyone that the PDI worries you and that you are constantly thinking about it. And by the way, the PDI has more shows in Europe than the IFBB and is giving out more money than 80% of all the IFBB shows. Nice organization you work for. 40+ years in the industry and they can't afford to pay their members a decent prize money. And any slinging of shit about the IFBB is deserved, even you know that.
BUT A FRIDGE IS USEFUL...BOB ISN'T SO YOU SEE WHERE THE ANGER IS.....
I DON'T GET IT....CAUSE YOU DO JUST BEING YOU ON STAGE.. DOES IT.....YOU WOULDNT PLACE IN A PDI SHOW SO I UNDERSTAND YOUR ANGER...BUT ITS COOL....
Well yes...I can see your logic...(LOL)you see rhino, sometimes you get the elevator, sometimes you get the shaft. According to Bobby the PDI along with Lee will always get the shaft.
Well I see even though I dumbed it down you still didn't understand what I was saying. The IFBB is using what would be considered monopolistic practises and as such anyone who bought these practises in a case against the IFBB would win. Ronny, Lee or you can sign whatever you want, wouldn't make any difference as the IFBB is using monopolistic practises to control the market. You think the any case is going to base on whether someone is keeping the contract they signed or not? Is the IFBB's defence going to be "but he signed a contract"...No it will be a case based on the IFBB anti-competitive practises and the restrictions it places on independent contractors.
If the IFBB was so confident it is the premier bodybuilding federation, as you always state, open up the market and let it compete on a fair playing field ...oh know it won't because it keeps these rules in place even though it isn't scared of competition ::)
Actually, you're wrong. Rarely if ever have I brought up the PDI...I may responnd to something, but don't care enough to bring it up...just good fodder for discussion.
Actually, you're wrong. Rarely if ever have I brought up the PDI...I may responnd to something, but don't care enough to bring it up...just good fodder for discussion.
Man...I look good on that poster.....
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay Chic.....let me just bring you back to a little place i like to call planet earth........
You spent months and continue to spend time discrediting the PDI....To no avail.
Now you say we gave away 90% of the seats....Another line of bullshit, you say is a fact......The fact is, you love the PDI, and you love ME......Come on Chick, just get over it, I won't ever be with you, no matter how bad your mancrush is on me.....
But we can be freinds........youre allright with me, I just don't swing that way.
Still waiting for that list....
BTW...The IFBB isn't a monopoly...Lee himself has proved that you don't have to be in the IFBB to make money from BB...he has competed and won prize money, signed contracts, and has mentioned he has more than enough guest appearances.
Got that list togethe, yet...?
Jack,
Are you aware of the many, MANY stories from back in the day about Chick's kinky bisexual antics? Rumor has it that gay for pay was involved...
CHic can you put together a list of GOOD things the IFBB does. Please get that list together so we can see exactly why you support it so much.They take their time paying the competitors. Thats a good thing to do. ::)
CHic can you put together a list of GOOD things the IFBB does. Please get that list together so we can see exactly why you support it so much.
You look so good...they used a picture with you wearing a shirt. Kind of says it all...
The IFBB has given many BBers the platform to make a good living fron being a professional BB....the same cant be said for any other organization. Ask Arnold, or Dorian, Haney, Ronnie, Jay, Shawn, Lee or any of the many others including myself...how being a part of the IFBB has led to making some damn good money doing what we love.ALL THOSE GUYS ARE ON A LEASH WITH THE IFBB HOLDING IT!! OF COURSE THEY ARE TO ASK! THEY WILL ONLY SAY GOOD THINGS!
Name me the good any other federation has done for their athletes?
The IFBB has given many BBers the platform to make a good living fron being a professional BB....the same cant be said for any other organization. Ask Arnold, or Dorian, Haney, Ronnie, Jay, Shawn, Lee or any of the many others including myself...how being a part of the IFBB has led to making some damn good money doing what we love.
Name me the good any other federation has done for their athletes?
The IFBB has given many BBers the platform to make a good living fron being a professional BB....the same cant be said for any other organization. Ask Arnold, or Dorian, Haney, Ronnie, Jay, Shawn, Lee or any of the many others including myself...how being a part of the IFBB has led to making some damn good money doing what we love.
Name me the good any other federation has done for their athletes?
LET THE IFBB BE FAIR AND LET ATHLETES GO WHERE THEY WANT THEN WE WILL SEE WHAT OTHER FEDERATIONS CAN DO.....UNTIL THEN OF COURSE THE IFBB IS THE ONLY ONE DOING SHIT CAUSE THEY THREATEN IF YOU LEAVE...
Sponsors make that happen....Not a federation. Weider brought Arnold to America.......He was in the Nabba first.
Seriously Chick.....come on..(LOL)...
And you? You don't make any money.
LET THE IFBB BE FAIR AND LET ATHLETES GO WHERE THEY WANT THEN WE WILL SEE WHAT OTHER FEDERATIONS CAN DO.....UNTIL THEN OF COURSE THE IFBB IS THE ONLY ONE DOING SHIT CAUSE THEY THREATEN IF YOU LEAVE...
It's a free market, Lee...let some other federation start to offer any real money to compete, and I'll guaruntee they get some talent...the BBers will go where the money is.
It's a free market, Lee...let some other federation start to offer any real money to compete, and I'll guaruntee they get some talent...the BBers will go where the money is.
THE PDI IS...NOW TELL THE IFBB TO LET THEM GO AND COMPETE WITH NO RETALIATION....THERE IS ROOM FOR 2 ORGANIZATIONS AND YOU AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT..
There have been 2+ organizations for YEARS, Lee...the key was "REAL MONEY"...like McMahon offered.The IFBB is "REAL MONEY" ?? lets see you spend 50,000 plus for a year to get ready and compete and if you don't crack the top 10 you walk away with what....a whopping 4 grand??
If you pay them, they will come...
There have been 2+ organizations for YEARS, Lee...the key was "REAL MONEY"...like McMahon offered.
If you pay them, they will come...
The IFBB has given many BBers the platform to make a good living fron being a professional BB....the same cant be said for any other organization. Ask Arnold, or Dorian, Haney, Ronnie, Jay, Shawn, Lee or any of the many others including myself...how being a part of the IFBB has led to making some damn good money doing what we love.
Name me the good any other federation has done for their athletes?
There have been 2+ organizations for YEARS, Lee...the key was "REAL MONEY"...like McMahon offered.
If you pay them, they will come...
Thats your list. I swear to god I am eating cereal and milk came out of my nose. You are one funny guy. 40+ years and this is the list you come up with of good things the IFBB has done. And how about the organizations in Europe. The IFBB provides a platform to make a good living? Again, the IFBB does not pay their members a thing. IN fact they don't do anything in case their members don't get paid. Now you will say they guarantee prize money. Well that is a misleading statement since they will simply have a contest cancelled if they don't have the prize money. Then the promoter eats shit. Face it Chic you are fighting a losing battle and you are embarassing yourself with every post.Don't the members have to PAY the IFBB to be in it??
There have been 2+ organizations for YEARS, Lee...the key was "REAL MONEY"...like McMahon offered.
If you pay them, they will come...
Don't the members have to PAY the IFBB to be in it??
Yes, plus give up allot of rights to make money. They do not offer a platform they issue handcuffsYou can work for us but its going to cost you!
OK WHATS THE IFBB PAY????? OH THEY DON'T THEY JUST GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO WIN MONEY..OH I SEE...SO THE SAME GUYS NEARLY ALL THE TIME TAKE THE MONEY....SO WHATS THE IFBB GIVE THE OTHER GUYS???? OH A CHANCE TO COMPETE WOW......
Please list all the court ordered judgements for an athlete against the IFBB to be allowed to do either/or while maintaining membership in the IFBB...
I'll be waiting for your list.
Still waiting for that list....
BTW...The IFBB isn't a monopoly...Lee himself has proved that you don't have to be in the IFBB to make money from BB...he has competed and won prize money, signed contracts, and has mentioned he has more than enough guest appearances.
Got that list togethe, yet...?
OK WHATS THE IFBB PAY????? OH THEY DON'T THEY JUST GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO WIN MONEY..OH I SEE...SO THE SAME GUYS NEARLY ALL THE TIME TAKE THE MONEY....SO WHATS THE IFBB GIVE THE OTHER GUYS???? OH A CHANCE TO COMPETE WOW......
As opposed to YOUR PDI which does what? Same shit...when the PDI, or any other federation starts paying their members reguardless of competing...let me know.
Chick - Which federation do you believe Vince G CSN, MFT will choose to dominate in when he turns pro?
Don't laugh...Vince could have very well been a PDI pro had he entered the qualifier.
Don't laugh...Vince could have very well been a PDI pro had he entered the qualifier.
Do you agree he would have placed higher than you
As opposed to YOUR PDI which does what? Same shit...when the PDI, or any other federation starts paying their members reguardless of competing...let me know.
SO WHY NOT LET THE GUYS COMPETE IN BOTH TO MAKE MONEY....
WHO DOES IT HURT TELL ME THAT?--------------NO BODY
JUST SAY PDI HAD SHOW BEFORE ARNOLD OR ANY IFBB SHOW OR AFTER WHY WOULD GUYS DO IT IF THEY COULD MNAKE EXTRA MONEY...THEY ARE IN SHAPE SO WHY NOT.....IF THEY NEW THE IFBB SAID IT WAS OK THERE WOULD BE PLENTY DOING BOTH.
SO WHY NOT LET THE GUYS COMPETE IN BOTH TO MAKE MONEY....exactly! that makes perfect sense! but IFBB will suspend your ass if you do that! oh shit they did already!
WHO DOES IT HURT TELL ME THAT?--------------NO BODY
JUST SAY PDI HAD SHOW BEFORE ARNOLD OR ANY IFBB SHOW OR AFTER WHY WOULD GUYS DO IT IF THEY COULD MNAKE EXTRA MONEY...THEY ARE IN SHAPE SO WHY NOT.....IF THEY NEW THE IFBB SAID IT WAS OK THERE WOULD BE PLENTY DOING BOTH.
exactly! that makes perfect sense! but IFBB will suspend your ass if you do that! oh shit they did already!
THEY DID WHEN ...SHIT I AM ALWAYS IN THE DARK..... f**kyeah Lee, they wouldn't let you do the Mr. O, they let you in the expo cuz if they didn't no one would go! Then they talked shit about you at the conference! apparently you got spanked!?! I know your busy making money in the PDI now so i hope this helps ;D it must have been nice to get wire transfered the next morning!
SO WHY NOT LET THE GUYS COMPETE IN BOTH TO MAKE MONEY....
WHO DOES IT HURT TELL ME THAT?--------------NO BODY
JUST SAY PDI HAD SHOW BEFORE ARNOLD OR ANY IFBB SHOW OR AFTER WHY WOULD GUYS DO IT IF THEY COULD MNAKE EXTRA MONEY...THEY ARE IN SHAPE SO WHY NOT.....IF THEY NEW THE IFBB SAID IT WAS OK THERE WOULD BE PLENTY DOING BOTH.
You're not looking at the big picture...I don't personally believe that there are enough quality pro's or sponsors to sustain 2 federations.
Who may it hurt, you ask? Possible BOTH federations and the athletes in the long term. Two waterd down federations...more shows with less quality at them, less sponsorship money means less probability of MORE athletes making anything.
There aren't enough good pro's out there to make the IFBB successful in all their shows, let alone another federation. The smaller shows already take enough flak for having a "weak" line-up...
There would also be a problem with the PDI guys being able to compete in the IFBB shows, as the majoity of them aren't qualified by IFBB standards...If they can't get through the NPC, they certainly cant step on a IFBB stage...
If there was enough talent and money to have another successful federation, it would have been done many years go with NABBA, WABBA, the WBBG, or the WBF.
You're not looking at the big picture...I don't personally believe that there are enough quality pro's or sponsors to sustain 2 federations.
Who may it hurt, you ask? Possible BOTH federations and the athletes in the long term. Two waterd down federations...more shows with less quality at them, less sponsorship money means less probability of MORE athletes making anything.
There aren't enough good pro's out there to make the IFBB successful in all their shows, let alone another federation. The smaller shows already take enough flak for having a "weak" line-up...
There would also be a problem with the PDI guys being able to compete in the IFBB shows, as the majoity of them aren't qualified by IFBB standards...If they can't get through the NPC, they certainly cant step on a IFBB stage...
If there was enough talent and money to have another successful federation, it would have been done many years go with NABBA, WABBA, the WBBG, or the WBF.
Wow! Keep thinking this way Chic. No wonder why you are so blinded by the IFBB. They defintiely picked the perfect person to be their puppet. I give you credit. You stick to your guns no matter how wrong you are. YOu would think that seeing that NO ONE supports your thoughts you would think twice before saying things, but you don't. Not sure if it means you are dumb or just ignorant to the reality of the IFBB. Either way it has lessened your crediablity. But you know I still love you.
Hey whats up ALL.......... LEE still eating my donuts ;D RHINO still on ur promise ;)
## GREAT news....our PDI just got new champ...just made the come back.. i respect him and admire him the most from the 90s IFBB pro bodybuilders.....
its the great Paul Dellet :o PDI shows gonna be great this year... CANT Wait :)
## i got the news from UK-muscle.com... Paul posted that him self ;)
http://www.uk-muscle.com/ukmuscle/forums/read.aspx?pid=74638
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e143/musclemania2005/dillet04.jpg)
## and here is Musclemag covering up our show in NY ;D
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e143/musclemania2005/PDI01.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e143/musclemania2005/PDI02.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e143/musclemania2005/PDI03.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e143/musclemania2005/PDI04.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e143/musclemania2005/PDI05-1.jpg)
Yes Paul told me this a few months back ..but i kept quiet....It will be great to back on stage with him again.....there is also one more big name coming over so .......WAIT FOR IT...
Lee
Yes Paul told me this a few months back ..but i kept quiet....It will be great to back on stage with him again.....there is also one more big name coming over so .......WAIT FOR IT...
Lee
Yes Paul told me this a few months back ..but i kept quiet....It will be great to back on stage with him again.....there is also one more big name coming over so .......WAIT FOR IT...I know who it is Lee! its gotta be Shawn Ray!!
Lee
Let me guess...someone else who couldn't turn pro in the NPC or make it in the IFBB?
Let me guess...someone else who couldn't turn pro in the NPC or make it in the IFBB?
nahhh...maybe just someone who doesn't want to flounder at the national level for years and years, who'd want to do that?
sorry chick, that was a cheap shot.
That was no cheap shot...I take great pride in having the testicular fortitude to continue with my goals and not give up, despite the odds being against me.
What I never would have done...was accept a "pro card" without earning it. I would have rather had my name along side others who "should" have won a pro card but didn't for any variety of reasons...
what about a buy like Vinny Galanti. He's won numerous national level shows and isn't a pro but someone like...lets say Charles Clairmont never won an IFBB amatuer show and was just "elected" to be a pro-this is how I remember it, so if I'm wrong I'm sorry but I know some guys were just given pro status-Brian Buchanan comes to mind.
i think Paul Dillet went the same route. He was just given a pro-card. Probably came in the mail and he said what the f*ck? how did i qualify for this?
vinny will be a pro after this year,
isnt that right BOB ;)
vinny will be a pro after this year,
isnt that right BOB ;)
hahaha
dillet is a joke, all drugs..... if his career wasnt over then, it is now...
But he will get 2nd place because of his name.
Rhino,
you should quit wasting your time on this dumb shit, you dont have to do this. Your a good guy, let all the other mongrols compete for third place.
Good advice bro...Thanks.
Let me guess...someone else who couldn't turn pro in the NPC or make it in the IFBB?
That was no cheap shot...I take great pride in having the testicular fortitude to continue with my goals and not give up, despite the odds being against me.
What I never would have done...was accept a "pro card" without earning it. I would have rather had my name along side others who "should" have won a pro card but didn't for any variety of reasons...
That was no cheap shot...I take great pride in having the testicular fortitude to continue with my goals and not give up, despite the odds being against me.
What I never would have done...was accept a "pro card" without earning it. I would have rather had my name along side others who "should" have won a pro card but didn't for any variety of reasons...
I didn't "accept" anything...I EARNED my pro card, fair and square. Can you say the same?
What have I done with it? I've managed to make a career and a damn good living from it...I've also managed to parley my skills into maintaining a "pro career" without having o rely on competing to do it...
I didn't "accept" anything...I EARNED my pro card, fair and square. Can you say the same?
What have I done with it? I've managed to make a career and a damn good living from it...I've also managed to parley my skills into maintaining a "pro career" without having o rely on competing to do it...
SO YOUR SAYING...
TO GET AHEAD YOU MUST GIVE IT???????????
UMMM BOB NEWS FLASH YOU AIN'T COMPETING= NO PRO CAREER...YOU HAVE A JOB PLAIN AND SIMPLE NOW GO TO WORK
You tell me...I'm not the one that had to petition for a pro card.
I didn't "accept" anything...I EARNED my pro card, fair and square. Can you say the same?
What have I done with it? I've managed to make a career and a damn good living from it...I've also managed to parley my skills into maintaining a "pro career" without having o rely on competing to do it...
I'm making twice as much as I was 3 years ago...you're making less than half as you were. Looks like someone has the wrong gameplan working. Let me know if you need some advices...
That is what a normal person would do. Chick, you know Mr. Priest is not smart enough to do that. He think he is professional car driver and his bodybuilding career is about to come to an end.
Lee..yo..bro..
ya do know what typing in caps is the equivalent of screaming on the net right?
just a fyi
LETS SEE WON OVER 8 RACES THIS YEAR WON CHAMPIONSHIP....MADE THIS YEAR MORE THEN MOST THE GUYS COMPETING IN BB MADE..I MADE FORM RACING..SO YEAH I COULD SAY I WAS A PRO RACER....
YEAH I KNOW .........JUST LIKE IT I AM MAKING SO YOU DONT HAVE TO SQUINT :)
I DIDNT SO I DONT KNOW.......I WON THE OVERALL AUSTRALIAN ONCE AND MY CLASS TWICE AT NATIONALS SO I GOT MINE....SO DON'T HATE.........OH DID I MENTION I WAS 17 AS WELL.....GO IT SUCKS TO BE YOU...
Right ???
IT WAS ALREADY PETIONED FROM AUUSTRALIA AND HAD EARNED THE RIGHT HE SAW ME AND CALLED WAYNE AND PUSHED IT THROUGH QUICKER...AS I WAS GOING TO DO THE NIAGRA AMATURE SHOW AND INSTEAD I DID THE PRO AS MY CARD WAS HANDED TO ME THAT WEEKEND.:'( i love that story.
I didn't "accept" anything...I EARNED my pro card, fair and square. Can you say the same?Oh Bob please it doesn't count when you are on your knees ;) Well keep up the good work Bob. You and Shawn can give seminars on how to keep the bosses happy :P You are right Bob you and Shawn definately earned it :-*
What have I done with it? I've managed to make a career and a damn good living from it...I've also managed to parley my skills into maintaining a "pro career" without having o rely on competing to do it...
You look so good...they used a picture with you wearing a shirt. Kind of says it all...
I have it from a good source that Nasser is considering making a move to the PDI. It might not be a bad move for him.
Are you saying that Manion didn't have to go to bat for you to be allowed to compete in the IFBB...??
I can't beilieve you are even going thaere with Lee. Picking on me is one thing, Chick, seriously.....You could not touch Lee onstage. As far as anybody going to bat????Please, I know for a fact that they could'nt wait to get Lee, I was there when it went down....Oh, and so was Wayne.
Yeah, Lee did not earn his pro card!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's a free market, Lee...let some other federation start to offer any real money to compete, and I'll guaruntee they get some talent...the BBers will go where the money is.
I can't beilieve you are even going thaere with Lee. Picking on me is one thing, Chick, seriously.....You could not touch Lee onstage. As far as anybody going to bat????Please, I know for a fact that they could'nt wait to get Lee, I was there when it went down....Oh, and so was Wayne.
Yeah, Lee did not earn his pro card!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Figured you were at least smart enough to comprehend what you read, jack...
Where does it say anything about beating Lee onstage? Missed the point completely...read it again Rickles.
You look so good...they used a picture with you wearing a shirt. Kind of says it all...
to cherry pick opportunities
DO YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT I AM MAKING....THINK AGAIN...YOU HAVE NO IDEA.....WHAT I AM OR WHAT I HAVE MADE........
LETS SEE 3 YEARS AGO YOU MADE $0....NOW YOU MAKE $3 WOW
So whats your point?i asked a question, you answered it. get it?
thanks, i wanted a response for the record :o
HEY TRUTH HURTS I GUESS....OH WELL....YOU WILL GET OVER BEING A LOSER
Figured you were at least smart enough to comprehend what you read, jack...
Where does it say anything about beating Lee onstage? Missed the point completely...read it again Rickles.
lol chick is too funny.
Rhino's been takin a ego-beating this week!
(http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/256493/2/istockphoto_256493_rhino.jpg)
don't be sad R
this one takes the cake...i'm still laughing from yesterday!
B-B-B- BURN!
If they see some better opportunity to compete...they are free to go at any time during the calender year, even if they've already paid their membership fee.
With this in mind, why was Lee banned for competing in the PDI? I must have missed it.
Because the one thing you CAN'T do...is COMPETE for a rival federation while being a IFBB athlete.WHY?? Whats the big deal with that?!
Because the one thing you CAN'T do...is COMPETE for a rival federation while being a IFBB athlete.
IFBB pro's are free to talk to/ negotiate with any person or organization they wish...this aint the NFL.
They can sign any endorsement deal or represent any company they wish, providing they have no direct conflict with the IFBB.
If they see some better opportunity to compete/ make money...they are free to go at any time during the calender year, even if they've already paid their membership fee.
Yes, IFBB pro's...any other pro's in other organizations are subject to their own rules.
Because the one thing you CAN'T do...is COMPETE for a rival federation while being a IFBB athlete.
Actually there are more than one thing. They cannot guest pose at any event unless its a NPC or IFBB show. They cannot be part of an expo associated with a non NPC or IFBB show. They cannot do seminars for other organizations. We'll see if they can go on the PDI radio. I know Manion, Weider and Chic are all going to be invited. Lets see what happens
Actually there are more than one thing. They cannot guest pose at any event unless its a NPC or IFBB show. They cannot be part of an expo associated with a non NPC or IFBB show. They cannot do seminars for other organizations. We'll see if they can go on the PDI radio. I know Manion, Weider and Chic are all going to be invited. Lets see what happens
You can work expo's...I had that rule changed at the last meeting.
Why would a IFBB athlete go on a PDI radio show?
Because the one thing you CAN'T do...is COMPETE for a rival federation while being a IFBB athlete.
Actually there are more than one thing. They cannot guest pose at any event unless its a NPC or IFBB show. They cannot be part of an expo associated with a non NPC or IFBB show. They cannot do seminars for other organizations. We'll see if they can go on the PDI radio. I know Manion, Weider and Chic are all going to be invited. Lets see what happens
PDI is not a federation.
PDI is a free organisation that run business in bodybuilding.
Your bosses should instruct you better.
PDI is not a federation.
PDI is a free organisation that run business in bodybuilding.
Your bosses should instruct you better.
the internaional strategy of PDI is a sound business plan...no wonder chick's so angry
the internaional strategy of PDI is a sound business plan...no wonder chick's so angry
"Angry" LOL..why would I be angry?
It's just good fodder for the boards, nothing more nothing less.
I don't lose either way...if it takes off and is successful...GREAT....on ly makes my position for the athletes that much stronger.
If it tanks and goes belly up....GREAT...doesn't affect me or the IFBB in any way.
right...no website, 2-3 good bodybuilders, the rest fairly decent or horrible. no website. 1 show a year? and costume-routines that would make homosexuals say...this is sooooo gay!
sounds like a concrete business plan to me
right...no website, 2-3 good bodybuilders, the rest fairly decent or horrible. no website. 1 show a year? and costume-routines that would make homosexuals say...this is sooooo gay!
sounds like a concrete business plan to me
If it becomes successful how does that make your position stronger. You will have allot less people to represent.
Not another joker.
it's called business.
hope this helps.
It makes my position stronger because I would have the leverage of another federation at my disposal.
Much like if the WBF was still around today...back in the day, they forced th Weider Co. to start upping the ante in terms of contracts in order to keep the talent on their side...the BBers will go where the money is.
As for having "much less people to represent"...PLEASE...most of the PDI talent aint coming from the IFBB anyways...using your own statistics against you...figure out how many PDI pro's are from the IFBB and the percentage.
Lets say there are 30 PDI pro's...3 have come from the IFBB.
it's called a road to bankruptcy if something big doesn't happen soon.yeah right joker
hope THAT helps.
yeah right joker
Don't flatter yourself...there's only one guy I have a mancrush on....and that's KEITH!! He's twice th man you are.. ;D
man you've got serious problems if you saw the PDI-night of champions (pics or live etc) and said to yourself:PDI is just getting started, and for just getting started they've put together really good shows already.
"hmmm, i'd just love to see the next show they put together!"
PDI is just getting started, and for just getting started they've put together really good shows already.
what makes them 2nd or 3rd tier?? the IFBB does. The IFBB says no these guys don't beat Ronnie or Jay, when maybe the PDI says "wow look at the tapered waist, symmetry, cuts etc , these guys brought the complete package!!"
Seems like many of the 2nd or 3rd tier athletes are heading from IFBB to PDI.
what makes them 2nd or 3rd tier?? the IFBB does. The IFBB says no these guys don't beat Ronnie or Jay, when maybe the PDI says "wow look at the tapered waist, symmetry, cuts etc , these brought the complete package!!"
Excellent post. Some of em really are 2nd or 3rd tier, others are overlooked and not appreciated in the IFBB because their guts aren't huge enough....:) Thats what seems to win shows in the IFBB right now, even though the judging critera says otherwise. It just doesn't make sense to me. To say you better come in this way if you wanna win! but the winner ends up being the oposite. Anyways columbus, i just think the competitors should be aloud to try and make as much money as they can, they don't make much as it is!!
what makes them 2nd or 3rd tier?? the IFBB does. The IFBB says no these guys don't beat Ronnie or Jay, when maybe the PDI says "wow look at the tapered waist, symmetry, cuts etc , these guys brought the complete package!!"
unless you are visually impared you should be able to notice the difference between
someone like george farah, and phil heath.
king kamali and dexter jackson
bill willmore and darrem charlesthere are notable differences between thest types of the physiques just noted. and 9/10 times the guy on the right should come out on top. or better yet 100% of the time, because thats the name of the game.
you come into the game with a certain physique and certain limitations. Sure you can work your way up but after a few years you know where you stand. Thats what classes you in the federation. I dont care about placings but tell me honestly (in comparison of physiques) if in those 3 examples you'd have the guys in red not coming out on top. if you do then that just proves my point.
hope this helps.
What do you make of this pair: King Kamali and Ronny Rockel?
Hope this helps!
Rockel. hands down.
I don't think king ever placed ahead of R-Rockel. (nevertheless competed at same show)
Both you and Jr Yates make good points, but they apply to different guys. You cannot deny that many guys have gone unappreciated in the IFBB and were overtaken by worse bbers.
I am not talking about people like Sean Allen who can't win a show in the NPC, mind you...
WHY WOULD IFBB PROS KEEP COMPETING IN THE IFBB YEAR AFTER YEAR AND HAVE NEVER MADE A DOLLAR? WOULD YOU GO TO WORK FOR 5-6 YEARS AND NEVER GET PAID?...NO...SO WHY KEEP GOING BACK TO IFBB IF YOU AREN'T GETTING A FAIR GO? THERE ARE PLENTY OF GREAT BODIES ON STAGE AT IFBB SHOWS AND NEVER GET LOOKED AT OR A FAIR CALLOUT...YET THEY SPEND MONEY ON....FLIGHTS...HOTELS.. .SUPPS..EVERYTHING AND NEVER GET NOTHING BACK....I JUST DON'T GET IT.IF THE IFBB HAS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT THEN LET IT'S ATHLETES COMPETE WHEREVER...PDI...NABBA.. .WHO DOSE IT HURT? NO BODY IT JUST GIVES THE BODYBUILDERS A CHANCE TO MAKE A LIVING AT WHAT THEY LOVE TO DO.....CAUSE LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE IF THE GUYS STOOD TOGETHER WITHOUT THE ATHLETE AND SPONOSRS THE IFBB IS NOTHING BUT 4 LETTERS.......SO LET THE GUYS COMPETE TO MAKE MONEY FOR GODS SAKE.....AND THE GUYS WHO ARE MAKING THE MONEY ALSO NEED TO TAKE A STAND FOR THIER FELLOW COMPETITIOR WHO ISNT....GOING THROUGH THE RIGHT CHANNELS DON'T ALWAYS WORK BOB..SOMETIMES YOU NEED TO BE DRASTIC...TOP 6 AT THE OLYMPIA SAY HEY UNLESS THE GUYS FROM 10TH DOWN GET 10 THOUSAND (THIS IS THE O AFTER ALL) WE WILL NOT GO ONSTAGE AND ALL THE GUYS STRIKE BEFORE THE O.WHAT WILL THEY DO CANCELL SHOW? HELL NO...THE GUYS SHOULD STICK TOGETHER AND REFUSE TO GO ON...WILL THEY SUSPEND THEM? HELL NO WHAT SHOWS WOULD THEY HAVE NEXT YEAR IF THEY SUSPENDED THE TOP GUYS IN THE O.....SEE YOU GUYS HAVE ALL THE POWER TRY USING IT BE A LEADER AND TAKE A STEP FORWARD FOR ONCE.....YOU WANT CHANGE THEN MAKE IT HAPPEN.....
BOB I WAS SAYING THIS LONG BEFORE YOU CALLED YOUR MEETING...GO BACK AND LOOK AT OLD ISSUES OF MAGAZINES...I THINK MM 94 HAS ME ON THE COVER SAYING SUSPENDED......AND YOU WANT TO DO IT COME TALK ABOUT IT PUT IT IN WRITTING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS ....SCREW THAT GUYS NEED TO JUST DO IT.....THE IFBB PLAN SHOWS THEN CANCELL SO THE GUYS SHOULD DO THE SAME....
AND I KNEW YOUR MEETING BACK THEN WOULD DO NOTHING JUST LIKE ALL YOUR MEETINGS NOW..PLEASE BOB THEY ARE A WAIST OF TIME....TILL THE GUYS TAKE DRASTIC MEASURES THE IFBB WILL JUST KEEP ON SCREWING THEM OVER
Yeah...talking about it did nothing. I actully took the leader role and decided to do something about it. You not showing up only enforced what your saying NOW...you decided to be part of the PROBLEM, not part of the SOLUTION.
Right now, all the other pro's are saying the same thing you did...I know Lee's plan will result in nothing...f**k him, he's on his own...just looking out for themselves as you were.
Talking tough NOW is lame...you showed your true colors when it could have made a difference.
Game over.
Who gives a f**k?
Call it whatever you want...it doesn't change the connotation as to what it is to the IFBB, and how it relates to the athletes and their contractual obligation.
I'm not going to rehash this for the 100th time, Lee...you're calling for all the IFBB pro's to "band together" and "take a stance"....blah, blah.....
When YOU had a chance to do just that...you didn't...in your own words "you were busy looking out for yourself and the show you were competing in..."
NOW, after you exile yourself from the IFBB, you grow some nuts and want everyone else to do what you wouldn't do...take a stand.
They're (the IFBB pro's) are doing the same thing you did...looking out for themselves.
I don't know who gives what but when it comes down to set rules that a group of people is asked to follow you should pay more attention to the word you use.
You continually show a very poor aknowledge of free market rules, international laws and a substantial lack of any base of what in western world is called freedom of enterprise.
You just confirm the stereotype that considers a bodybuilding a musclehead.
What the guys who constantly place lower than 5th should do is just not show up to the shows. Believe me that would change the minds of the top 5 guys in regards to having the lower guys make money. Cause if those lower guys don't show up either do allot of fans and sponsors. How many people are going to support a show with 5 competitor in it and all the placings already known. What a show with 5 people. Won't last long
This, after your little rant about how the PDI isn't trying to compete with the IFBB ::). Now you're promoting sabotage. But tell me Keith, do you think competitors in the PDI should do the same thing if they also consistently place outside the top 5? Is Rhino going on strike?? ;D
This, after your little rant about how the PDI isn't trying to compete with the IFBB ::). Now you're promoting sabotage. But tell me Keith, do you think competitors in the PDI should do the same thing if they also consistently place outside the top 5? Is Rhino going on strike?? ;D
Be nice to the old man......
This, after your little rant about how the PDI isn't trying to compete with the IFBB ::). Now you're promoting sabotage. But tell me Keith, do you think competitors in the PDI should do the same thing if they also consistently place outside the top 5? Is Rhino going on strike?? ;D
Christ....One show. How bout waiting for a second????
Although I am looking for top 10.
My question is this, Lee...
Are you going to set up a union for the PDI pro's...?
Instead of trying to get guys that have no interest in your org., why arent you taking care of the guy's that ARE in it?
Why arent you calling for a strike when you had guys that didn't make a dime in the last 2 shows?
My question is this, Lee...
Are you going to set up a union for the PDI pro's...?
Instead of trying to get guys that have no interest in your org., why arent you taking care of the guy's that ARE in it?
Why arent you calling for a strike when you had guys that didn't make a dime in the last 2 shows?
My question is this, Lee...
Are you going to set up a union for the PDI pro's...?
Instead of trying to get guys that have no interest in your org., why arent you taking care of the guy's that ARE in it?
Why arent you calling for a strike when you had guys that didn't make a dime in the last 2 shows?
Why wait till there is a problem?...that's where the IFBB pro's went wrong..had they started one back in the 70's when they had a handful of pro's, we would be miles ahead of where we are today.
If you start with one, you insure there wont be a problem.
GOOD POINT I WILL LOOK INTO IT....WELL YOU WERE COMPETING IN THE 70 WHY DIDNT YOU DO SOMETHING?
AND ONE WAS ALMOST STARTED TO GOOD OLD JOE STEPPED IN AND SQAUSHED THAT....SEE SAME SHIT STILL GOING ON NOW.....YES I GOT THE WHOLE STORY FROM ARNOLD AND THE GUYS AT WORLD GYM...
what are some possible different markets if the intent is bodybuilding? Silly statment
what are some possible different markets if the intent is bodybuilding? Silly statment
The PDI should be focusing on going after a DIFFERENT market with DIFFERENT atheltes (as it appears they are)...a influx of IFBB pro's wouldn't help either federation, but hurt thm both.
you mean allowing guys that never turned pro bc they werent good enough and allowing them to wear silly cosutmes on stage is good for the PDI and bad for the IFBB?
Chic and the others that make fun or even say anything about Lee and others who wear a costume are you stupid or blind or both. Check out IFBB shows. Check out the 8 time Mr. Olympia. The person who is supposed to represent pro BB. Jeez what a bunch a morons. Chic I am really surprised you even bring it up when the IFBB invented it. Get your shit together you are losing it.
I never liked it to begin with and never supported it.
What I did do is fix it by getting rid of the props and costumes...it's a done deal in the IFBB, as it should be.
Funny thing is...no one instructs me to do or say anything. I've talked to Manion a handful of times over the past 2 months, never once brought it up. Whats hard for you guys to understand is that no one from the IFBB really gives a shit about the PDI...they showed this past year that they are no real threat, no mass exodus of talent, no sponsors to speak of, no audience...
It's just slinging some shit around...no different than any of you do on a regular basis about the IFBB...
Haha, okay sorry Rhino I didn't mean to single you out, was just using you as an example. Good luck for your next show.
Rhino what's up bro how's your lifting? I know its hard to concentrate with all the hate on the PDI but its funny though you gotta agree on that lol
Well good job Chic. Only took them 40+ years to implement that rule. But in all honesty, the costumes at least make it a show and something different for the crowd. Like everyone says, BB is boring to watch. At least letting the competitors be creative and come out and do something different, makes it a little more entertaining.
Depends on who you talk to...from the play by play in Muscle builder at the time...it was Arnold himself that left the rest of them in a funk despite initially throwing his support behind it.
Actually, My first show was in 1979 at the ripe old age of 13....DOH!!
No, It's been a rule for some time...Ironically, it was your buddy Wayne that started the whole thing back when he first promoted the NOC.
Slowly but surly, a little slack has been cut here and there until something had o be done...
I disagee with making it more entertaining...I think it makes it look foolish. I don't see whee it enhances anything about bodybuilding, and just makes the guys work all that much LESS on their posing when they can just put a cape on and walk on stage.
OR A MOSES BEARD...OR A PREDATOR HELMET..OR A DARTH VADER MASK.OR N INFLATED WORLD ON THIER SHOULDERS..OR FACE PAINT..SHALL I GO ON?... OH THEY ARE IFBB ATHLETES I MENTIONED ..WHY YOU NEVER MENTION THEM BOB.haha you have a good point Lee.
OR A MOSES BEARD...OR A PREDATOR HELMET..OR A DARTH VADER MASK.OR N INFLATED WORLD ON THIER SHOULDERS..OR FACE PAINT..SHALL I GO ON?... OH THEY ARE IFBB ATHLETES I MENTIONED ..WHY YOU NEVER MENTION THEM BOB.
Lee...you forgot :
phantom of the opera mask with chains wrapped around the body.
cowboy hats and fake pistols. :)
Yeah you're right...I dont want to look like an idiot.
how long ago did he get a pro card
Bob, you are lucky you got your pro card. You got it after years of trying at an old age for a pro bodybuilder. You are just so happy that you accomplished your life long dream, becoming a pro, that you will do anything for the organization that made it come true. Even if it goes against what you truly believe (e.g. low pay for athletes, bad judging). So don't let them fool you or even try to school you, haha.
how long ago did he get a pro cardI think you mean when it was given to him :-X Only 16 years later in the sport. Not bad ;)
I think you mean when it was given to him :-X Only 16 years later in the sport. Not bad ;)so he was 29 when he was given the procard. when was he givien his first win?
IFBB must be happy to have Rodney St. Cloud aboard.
http://www.rodneystcloud.com/preview.htm
:-X :-[
what do you have to say about this Bob??
The IFBB's stance is bad...for who? Other federations? That's business...
The IFBB gains nothing by letting it's members compete in other federations. If they did lift the rule..virtually nothing would change other than having more watered down shows, and the same guys not making money would STILL not be making money...
Umm he is with the PDI now. They have to handle it now. It is something he does away from BB to make cash. Can't really blame him for it even if it is quite a bit against the grain. If the IFBB shows paid any kind of money then these guys probably wouldn't have had to go this route to make extra money. You don't see baseball, football, basketball, hockey, golfers or others doing this to make ends meets. Says something about the way BB is.damn that fucked up. good thing ifbb got rid of him then.
OR A MOSES BEARD...OR A PREDATOR HELMET..OR A DARTH VADER MASK.OR N INFLATED WORLD ON THIER SHOULDERS..OR FACE PAINT..SHALL I GO ON?... OH THEY ARE IFBB ATHLETES I MENTIONED ..WHY YOU NEVER MENTION THEM BOB.
Mention them all you want...I'm not disputing they wore costumes...they looked just as gay as you did.it didn't look GAY Chick, whats wrong with brining something new to the routine?? Did you even look into the fans opinion when you did that? probably not. The callouts and posedown and everything else is done without the costumes so there is nothing wrong with wearing one in your routine. Whats next? rules on the music you choose? no dancing aloud? just strictly pose and thats all.....good job Bobby Boy, IFBB along with Bodybuilding are going in a great direction....give yourself a pat on the back after your done shining the bosses shoes.
When the opportunity presented itself, I took action and had the rules updated and enforced....bye, bye costumes.
Mention them all you want...I'm not disputing they wore costumes...they looked just as gay as you did.
When the opportunity presented itself, I took action and had the rules updated and enforced....bye, bye costumes.
I'll go you one better....introducing the FIVE newest members!!
Mention them all you want...I'm not disputing they wore costumes...they looked just as gay as you did.
When the opportunity presented itself, I took action and had the rules updated and enforced....bye, bye costumes.
Mention them all you want...I'm not disputing they wore costumes...they looked just as gay as you did.
When the opportunity presented itself, I took action and had the rules updated and enforced....bye, bye costumes.
Did the athletes vote on this? Or did some of them ask to have this rule changed or enforced? Were they consulted about it first? Or did you decide you didn't like the costumes and make it your business to make the change? Just interested on how the IFBB athletes rep works.
Yes, the athletes voted on it at the last meeting...I presented it to the IFBB, and it passed unanimously.
The AR position works very simply...I represent the athletes.
Yes, the athletes voted on it at the last meeting...I presented it to the IFBB, and it passed unanimously.
The AR position works very simply...I represent the athletes.
Is there a chance we can see a scan copy of that ballot. Shouldn't be a problem. And exactly who voted andhow many voted. I have a feeling that less than 10 voted. Especially since your IFBB member meetings have had a total of 3 people show up in 4 years.
Mention them all you want...I'm not disputing they wore costumes...they looked just as gay as you did.
When the opportunity presented itself, I took action and had the rules updated and enforced....bye, bye costumes.
So far, I've received ZERO complaints.
Don't forget you receive no support either.
Hey Onlyme.....seriously, why do you have a gigantic hardon for Bob?
I don't know him from Adam, but from what I see and read he seems like a fairly normal person. Does he have a healthy ego? shit yes but he is a pro bber cultivating a career in showbiz and post-competition, what do you expect, a shrinking violet? I say give the guy props for carving himself out a niche in the biz. It ain't easy
Who is this "Adam" guy that no one seems to not know from anyone else??I think he goes by the name "True Adonis" or some nobody name like that.
Who is this "Adam" guy that no one seems to not know from anyone else??
WELL THERE ARE SO MANY IFBB CLOWNS I CANT REMEBER THEM ALL...AND THEY CALL PDI VILLAGE PEOPLE...
Whats hard for you guys to understand is that no one from the IFBB really gives a shit about the PDI...So much so that Jay Cutler went tot he trouble of mentioning them in his victory speech.
You tell me...I'm not the one that had to petition for a pro card.yeah, that shows what? lee (and many who «accepted» the pro card) would kick your ass anytime, so what's your point?
Whoever showed up...voted. It's that simple.And those were?...
You tell me...I'm not the one that had to petition for a pro card.