OTH'S 60 day diet, pics in

[Disgusted]

Thank you very much for your response. I too have noticed the exact same thing. Eating straight carbs doesn't work very well to reload the muscles. In my experience, not just some fat but a very large amount of fat works best. In fact, eating outright junk food is best to get a good pump n the gym the day after IMO (as Gal and others have also mentioned).
When coaching people, what exactly do you have them eat if maximum muscle replenishment is the goal?
If you look at the amount of fat stored in muscles, it is not much and therefore not a whole lot of fat should be needed on that basis. However, in theory, doing the rice and chicken breast thing and adding some olive oil plus almonds to the meal never works as well as eating fries, burgers and finishing off with a huge milkshake. Even gettign the exact same carbs/protein/fat from almonds, olive oil, coconuts, rice and chicken breast doesn't work the same way IME....

Please share theories on why this may be so, if this fits with your experiences as well and, most importantly, what kind of reload meal is in your view best to replenish muscle reserves.

Thanks a ton...

You are right about the type of foods. I have my guys eat smaller structured cheat meals over the course of one day. I like to see them eat carbs fat and protein really doesn't matter much as far as counting grams as you are getting plenty anyway with the types of foods that you are eating. I remember Duchaine recommending straight carbs and a lot in liquid form. He recommended doing the load I believe for up to 96 hours but I might be wrong on this, I would have to go back and read his work. This type of carb up, the one I do can only be done for one day though.

I like the fats in there because it slows down the digestion and seems to help the body retain the nutrients better. The sodium helps too as someone mentioned, but I have done the straight carb up years ago with sodium and it doesn't work as well as when you add fats and protein. There obviously is a lot of insulin floating around at this time for obvious reasons and I shouldn't say this, but this would possibly be a time that I would recommend some Humalog with each meal.  

[Big Chiro Flex]

No offence, but I don't believe in that big an increase from getting a pump. How many times have you measured them like this?

I'm not saying it it to brag or boast. But this is easily doable. Especially since I keep carbs moderate, I'm never walking around completely full all the time. So when I pump up, I get an easy 1.5". I don't see how this is impressive? Guys with bigger arms would pump up even more I'm sure. I know mine pump up more now the more muscle I have compared to a few years ago when they were smaller. The difference between pumped and flat is night and day for me.

Also to add my tris and bi's have a continual problem of terrible stretch marks that keep growing, every workout. . I mean they're getting out of hand now on the short head of my bis and long head of my tris. To the point its starting to look gross. And I rate my genetics as "good" but not "freakish"....there's certainly other guys who have crazier response to pumps than me.

[Big Chiro Flex]

noone has the levrone traps, galeniko has the levrone tris

 

[Psychopath]

No offence, but I don't believe in that big an increase from getting a pump. How many times have you measured them like this?

Uhmmmmmmmmmmm, have you ever gotten a real good pump before? Especially on AAS?

lol

[flinstones1]

I'm not saying it it to brag or boast. But this is easily doable. Especially since I keep carbs moderate, I'm never walking around completely full all the time. So when I pump up, I get an easy 1.5". I don't see how this is impressive? Guys with bigger arms would pump up even more I'm sure. I know mine pump up more now the more muscle I have compared to a few years ago when they were smaller. The difference between pumped and flat is night and day for me.

Also to add my tris and bi's have a continual problem of terrible stretch marks that keep growing, every workout. . I mean they're getting out of hand now on the short head of my bis and long head of my tris. To the point its starting to look gross. And I rate my genetics as "good" but not "freakish"....there's certainly other guys who have crazier response to pumps than me.

i think your genetics for adding size are above average but your structure is average.... no reason you cant be an evan centiaponti. Dont let anyone tell you for a minute that these pros are gifted, most of them are failed HS and college athletes who took up weightlifting cause they couldn't make the hs varsity squad. only true white genetic freak around today is dennis wolfe... ..

[Big Chiro Flex]

er.

yeah my arms unpumped look like nothing,esp when flat and holding bit water.

dont know about the tape, but the difference is remarkable.

will measure sometime soon

Uhmmmmmmmmmmm, have you ever gotten a real good pump before? Especially on AAS?

lol

Yeah this is what I'm saying fellas. I'm slightly offended that Van Bilderass, one of the best and most intelligent posters here thinks I'm lying   I'm not one to brag about my physique, I certainly wouldn't lie about it, or getting a 1.5" arm pump which is NOTHING special IMO.

Maybe it's fair to add that when I was natty I might add only 1 inch from a good pump. On test/deca, easy 1.5". Throw in my secret ingredient (Snickers ice cream bars pre workout) and this is where the magic really happens  

[Big Chiro Flex]

i think your genetics for adding size are above average but your structure is average.... no reason you cant be an evan centiaponti. Dont let anyone tell you for a minute that these pros are gifted, most of them are failed HS and college athletes who took up weightlifting cause they couldn't make the hs varsity squad. only true white genetic freak around today is dennis wolfe... ..

Thanks I think 

Funny you say that because my training partner/ and "coach" compares my lines to Evan!  (big delts, big arms, piss poor chest that doesn't grow  )

[flinstones1]

crazy how different we can all be. I am the exact opposite. Fat and protein leaves me looking flat, soft, and small. Carbs and protein however I look amazing. That said I am always well below 10%. If I was some fat fuck like cswole carbs may not be such a good idea. lol

alot of times guys  will find with time  as you move up the latter that pharm grade HGH  will make you insulin resistant brother...carbs and GH, without insulin is a recipe for becoming a diabetic. I just think gh works better on a low carb high protein moderate fat diet when your not using insulin...and 4-5iu of hgh without insulin and relying heaviliy on anabolics imo is what builds the best physiques....pretty much what disgusted reccomends. gh15 can shove that carb bullshit up his ass.


egg whites icecream and pineapple juice. cause we just know champions were built on that! lol....

[THE BOUNCER]

hey bouncer, in the last 3 years, granted ,i didnt grow much or at all, but i certainly didnt lose muscle.

comeon, being flat doesnt mean the muscle is gone.

i hear you. more like the overall look the body has when its flat, i hate it. IMO the best look is a full 7-8ish % bf. I can easily maintain that with 300 grams protein, 300 grams carbs, 30 grams fat per day, training and cardio 6 days per week.  this is what works best for me with the look I am going for.

[Big Chiro Flex]

i hear you. more like the overall look the body has when its flat, i hate it. IMO the best look is a full 7-8ish % bf. I can easily maintain that with 300 grams protein, 300 grams carbs, 30 grams fat per day, training and cardio 6 days per week.  this is what works best for me with the look I am going for.

This is very similar to my thoughts as well. I Eat very much the same.

[ukjeff]

This is very similar to my thoughts as well. I Eat very much the same.

I avoid high fats and as such that allows you to eat more food.
Its simple really.

[kyomu]

BF percentage is one of the most absurd things when it comes to BBing competition.
If you are shredded everywhere, the job is done.

Once i measured my bf% with a machine two days before the show, and it was saying that my bf% was 30%.

[ukjeff]

BF percentage is one of the most absurd things when it comes to BBing competition.
If you are shredded everywhere, the job is done.

Once i measured my bf% with a machine two days before the show, and it was saying that my bf% was 30%.

Show us the show photos, the calippers may have been right. 

[Van_Bilderass]

Yeah this is what I'm saying fellas. I'm slightly offended that Van Bilderass, one of the best and most intelligent posters here thinks I'm lying   I'm not one to brag about my physique, I certainly wouldn't lie about it, or getting a 1.5" arm pump which is NOTHING special IMO.

Maybe it's fair to add that when I was natty I might add only 1 inch from a good pump. On test/deca, easy 1.5". Throw in my secret ingredient (Snickers ice cream bars pre workout) and this is where the magic really happens  

It wasn't meant to offend but what you're describing IS special IME. I think there's probably some self trickery going on somehow. Do it again, take the tape measure to the gym, measure before workout in the locker room, pump your arms to the max and then measure again. Make sure the tape is placed exactly in the same spot, not crooked, without any slack due to sweaty arm or whatever. I think a .75 gain is more realistic for an arm that size, from what I've see.

Galeniko, take measurements too, I want to hear what you gain pumped.

1.5 is crazy. Anyone, take a tape measure a measure the arm right now. Then put 1.5 worth of slack on it see how much bigger the arm has to get fill it. It's an enormous gain.

Uhmmmmmmmmmmm, have you ever gotten a real good pump before? Especially on AAS?

lol

I guess you get an "easy" 2 inches by pumping up? You too bro, measure again and don't trick yourself by measuring with the tape on all crooked.

If someone puts a high quality video on here showing pre and post pump arm gains of at least 1.5 I'll freely admit I'm a complete dumbass.

BTW, this topic reminded me of this study. It may have some limitations but may be interesting nonetheless. Not about pumping per se, but about carb loading which makes most "feel fuller".

Effects of carbohydrate loading and weight-lifting on muscle girth.

Balon TW, Horowitz JF, Fitzsimmons KM.

Dept. of Diabetes, City of Hope Medical Center, Duarte, CA 91010.

Bodybuilders have used different carbohydrate loading regimens in conjunction with resistance exercise prior to competition in the belief that this would result in increased muscle size. To investigate this possibility, muscle girth measurements were obtained from nine weight-trained males before and after a control (standard isocaloric diet) and an experimental trial (carbohydrate loading). The latter regimen consisted of 3 days of intense weight-lifting while the subjects ingested a diet of 10% carbohydrate (CHO), 57% fat (F), and 33% protein (P), followed by 3 days of light weight-lifting and a day of rest while ingesting a diet of 80% CHO, 5% F, and 15% P. The control trial consisted of an identical weight-lifting regimen while subjects ingested an isocaloric (45 kcal/kg BW/day) diet. Body weight and girths (forearm, upper arm, chest, thigh, waist, and calf) were obtained before and after each trial in a relaxed and flexed state. The results indicate that an exercise/carbohydrate loading regimen had no significant effect on muscle girth as compared to the control trial. It is concluded that CHO loading has no additional advantage to enhancing muscle girth in bodybuilders over weight-lifting alone.

[BigCyp]

Lot's of athletes getting pumped and measuring how many inches are going up in this thread

[THE BOUNCER]

ah fair enough, me, i like the flat look with bit less bodyfat

just weird because I have never seen your abs look leaner then mine.. 

[kyomu]

Show us the show photos, the calippers may have been right. 

[no one]

I avoid high fats and as such that allows you to eat more food.
Its simple really.

and this faulty logic is why you look like shit. it's simple really.

this is the worst 'advise' I've read in here in sometime.

'I avoid fat so I can eat more food'

Jesus Christ.

what makes it more remarkable is that your not trolling (for a change) and are actually being serious- stick to trolling cause clearly you suck at everything else.

[no one]

holy fuck i dont eat fat so i can eat more hahahahaha jesus no wonder he looks like a bloated whale.

[no one]

hey bouncer, in the last 3 years, granted ,i didnt grow much or at all, but i certainly didnt lose muscle.

comeon, being flat doesnt mean the muscle is gone.

i agree somewhere under 5%, the muscle can actualy fade away even on gear.

but what you gonna do, be in the 4% range(unrealistic to hold for long anyway)and fight muscle loss with carbs?that will mess up the condition.
theres a limit to everything.

but muscle loss on gear before 6% isnt even worth thinking about

agreed with all this.

bouncer just needs to unlock his brain and try it.

and you have to be fair to yourself dude. the emboldened part i highlighted, you gotta remember for a majority of that time you've been on hrt type doses.

imo you'd grow like a weed if you upped the dose- actually i think you'll notice it in the weeks to come if you havent already given our correspondence.

i fully believe you can create lean tissue and not just preserve it in a severe deficit, given the way we do it.

[no one]

alot of times guys  will find with time  as you move up the latter that pharm grade HGH  will make you insulin resistant brother...carbs and GH, without insulin is a recipe for becoming a diabetic. I just think gh works better on a low carb high protein moderate fat diet when your not using insulin...and 4-5iu of hgh without insulin and relying heaviliy on anabolics imo is what builds the best physiques....pretty much what disgusted reccomends. gh15 can shove that carb bullshit up his ass.


egg whites icecream and pineapple juice. cause we just know champions were built on that! lol....

agreed 100%.

[THE BOUNCER]

bouncer just needs to unlock his brain and try it.

bro, nobody experiments like me. i have run every variation of high carbs, low carbs, high fat, low fat etc.. for MONTHS at a time to get a real picture of how i react to each.

gotta remember i am not going for the stage look. just the best body on the beach.  

[no one]

noone has the levrone traps, galeniko has the levrone tris ;D

hahaha the mighty galeniko- the only guy i know whos upper arm is bigger than his waist from the side.

[no one]

You are right about the type of foods. I have my guys eat smaller structured cheat meals over the course of one day. I like to see them eat carbs fat and protein really doesn't matter much as far as counting grams as you are getting plenty anyway with the types of foods that you are eating. I remember Duchaine recommending straight carbs and a lot in liquid form. He recommended doing the load I believe for up to 96 hours but I might be wrong on this, I would have to go back and read his work. This type of carb up, the one I do can only be done for one day though.

I like the fats in there because it slows down the digestion and seems to help the body retain the nutrients better. The sodium helps too as someone mentioned, but I have done the straight carb up years ago with sodium and it doesn't work as well as when you add fats and protein. There obviously is a lot of insulin floating around at this time for obvious reasons and I shouldn't say this, but this would possibly be a time that I would recommend some Humalog with each meal.  

agreed with the combo of sat fats/sodium/and simple sugars for filling you out most efficiently.

i find 48 hours is my personal limit. i look my best if i use a 48 hour window. any longer and im dealing with water issues that are not comfortable.

[no one]

bro, nobody experiments like me. i have run every variation of high carbs, low carbs, high fat, low fat etc.. for MONTHS at a time to get a real picture of how i react to each.

gotta remember i am not going for the stage look. just the best body on the beach.  

use whats being outlined and you'll have that physique, in less time and it will be maintainable.

in fact, i can guarantee you wont want to stop.