Author Topic: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting  (Read 216663 times)

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63906
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1025 on: July 02, 2013, 01:18:57 PM »
And you know its solely because of all the media attention.

Yep.  Social pressure too.  Remember this resolution from Florida Congresswoman Frederica Wilson?

“We all know the tragic circumstances surrounding his murder: Trayvon was racially profiled, chased, made to fight for his life, and ultimately murdered. Yet we as a nation have yet to take substantive action to stop such a heartbreaking incident from happening again. Enough is enough: We as a nation have buried too many young black boys. Let’s set Congress on course to address the underlying causes behind the crisis that Trayvon’s death symbolizes. Let’s take action to stop racial profiling and give our people a chance to succeed.”

http://thegrio.com/2013/02/05/florida-congresswoman-introduces-resolution-honoring-trayvon-martin/

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22731
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1026 on: July 02, 2013, 01:23:11 PM »
Yep.  Social pressure too.  Remember this resolution from Florida Congresswoman Frederica Wilson?

“We all know the tragic circumstances surrounding his murder: Trayvon was racially profiled, chased, made to fight for his life, and ultimately murdered. Yet we as a nation have yet to take substantive action to stop such a heartbreaking incident from happening again. Enough is enough: We as a nation have buried too many young black boys. Let’s set Congress on course to address the underlying causes behind the crisis that Trayvon’s death symbolizes. Let’s take action to stop racial profiling and give our people a chance to succeed.”

http://thegrio.com/2013/02/05/florida-congresswoman-introduces-resolution-honoring-trayvon-martin/

Like a bunch of hungry zombies..

I remember listening to a radio show last year talking about how this story wasn't taken seriously; it was just being viewed as another typical murder.  It wasn't until some extreme redio stations were playing the 911 call over the air frequently did it start getting a bunch of attention.  Now these Zombie politicians are whoring themselves out on it.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63906
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1027 on: July 02, 2013, 01:37:14 PM »
Like a bunch of hungry zombies..

I remember listening to a radio show last year talking about how this story wasn't taken seriously; it was just being viewed as another typical murder.  It wasn't until some extreme redio stations were playing the 911 call over the air frequently did it start getting a bunch of attention.  Now these Zombie politicians are whoring themselves out on it.

Yep.  I also think we're going to see a reaction after the verdict similar to the OJ aftermath that is broken down largely along racial lines.  It's unfortunate, because this case shouldn't be about race.  And the only person who injected race into this situation was Martin.   

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39735
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1028 on: July 02, 2013, 01:38:12 PM »
Yep.  I also think we're going to see a reaction after the verdict similar to the OJ aftermath that is broken down largely along racial lines.  It's unfortunate, because this case shouldn't be about race.  And the only person who injected race into this situation was Martin.   

And Obama


Archer77

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14174
  • Team Shizzo
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1029 on: July 02, 2013, 01:41:34 PM »
Yep.  I also think we're going to see a reaction after the verdict similar to the OJ aftermath that is broken down largely along racial lines.  It's unfortunate, because this case shouldn't be about race.  And the only person who injected race into this situation was Martin.   

And the Al Sharptons of the world
A

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63906
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1030 on: July 02, 2013, 01:44:12 PM »
True.  The race hustlers have been all over this, but was referring to the person who injected race into the situation on the night of the shooting. 

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1031 on: July 02, 2013, 02:16:06 PM »
True.  The race hustlers have been all over this, but was referring to the person who injected race into the situation on the night of the shooting. 

Isn't it the defense making an issue of race by asking about the cracker comment

creepy ass cracker to be exact

who gives a shit either way

Race is a total non-issue in this case

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39735
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1032 on: July 02, 2013, 02:16:51 PM »
Isn't it the defense making an issue of race by asking about the cracker comment

creepy ass cracker to be exact

who gives a shit either way

Race is a total non-issue in this case

Not according to O-TWINK

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1033 on: July 02, 2013, 02:26:44 PM »
Not according to O-TWINK

who is O-Twink?

your new boyfriend?

Is this case pillow talk for you two

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22731
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1034 on: July 02, 2013, 02:29:57 PM »
Isn't it the defense making an issue of race by asking about the cracker comment

creepy ass cracker to be exact

who gives a shit either way

Race is a total non-issue in this case

Are you saying its not being made into a race issue by some in the media and politics?

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1035 on: July 02, 2013, 02:32:32 PM »
Are you saying its not being made into a race issue by some in the media and politics?

maybe - I haven't watched much of it but the media loves to talk about race whenever they can but it's a non-issue in the actual case

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22731
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1036 on: July 02, 2013, 02:51:18 PM »
maybe - I haven't watched much of it but the media loves to talk about race whenever they can but it's a non-issue in the actual case

I haven't followed the case's details too much since the trial began, So the Prosecution isn't trying to make it a racially motivated incident?


Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1037 on: July 02, 2013, 02:58:08 PM »
I haven't followed the case's details too much since the trial began, So the Prosecution isn't trying to make it a racially motivated incident?

I'm not aware that they are but I'm not following it much either

the only "race" stuff that I saw was the defense asking the woman who was talking to Martin on the phone about the "cracker" comment


Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39735
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1038 on: July 02, 2013, 03:01:40 PM »
I'm not aware that they are but I'm not following it much either

the only "race" stuff that I saw was the defense asking the woman who was talking to Martin on the phone about the "cracker" comment



And you missed OTWINK's comment I take it? 

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63906
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1039 on: July 02, 2013, 03:03:41 PM »
I haven't followed the case's details too much since the trial began, So the Prosecution isn't trying to make it a racially motivated incident?



Yes.  If you read the comments leading up the charge, it was largely about race.  The affidavit charging Zimmerman accused him of profiling Martin.  That was clearly referring to race, although once the trial started and they had zero evidence of racial profiling, they said Martin was profiled based on his age and clothing, which is a really dumb argument.  

They also got prior 911 calls admitted where Zimmerman called about other black guys.  They're not going to expressly argue he profiled those guys on race.  It will just be the elephant in the room.  

What's interesting is the entire Martin team stepped away from the race angle after the girlfriend confirmed it was Martin who referred to Zimmerman using the N word and called him a "creepy a@@ cracker."  That is testimony that came out on direct from the prosecutors.    

Shockwave

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20807
  • Decepticons! Scramble!
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1040 on: July 02, 2013, 03:05:19 PM »
I'm not aware that they are but I'm not following it much either

the only "race" stuff that I saw was the defense asking the woman who was talking to Martin on the phone about the "cracker" comment


There was an article detailing how the prosecution. was trying push the racial profiling angle, but when that failed they moved to just profiling.

Archer77

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14174
  • Team Shizzo
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1041 on: July 02, 2013, 03:08:51 PM »
I have to admit that if I saw a black guy in my all white neighborhood I'd wonder what he was doing.   My thought would be hes possibly a thug but most likely a jahovas witness, which is worse.
A

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1042 on: July 02, 2013, 03:13:03 PM »
And you missed OTWINK's comment I take it? 

I don't even know your boyfriend so how would I hear his comments

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63906
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1043 on: July 02, 2013, 03:38:55 PM »
Today's summary.  Didn't know there was a latent print on Zimmerman's gun.

No ‘active deception’ from Zimmerman, says cop
Amanda Sloane and Graham Winch
updated 5:28 PM EDT, Tue July 02, 2013
 
Jurors in the George Zimmerman trial got to hear his story again Tuesday, this time from Chris Serino, the lead investigator in the case, and Zimmerman’s best friend, Mark Osterman.
   
On the trial’s seventh day, both of them recounted the story told to them by Zimmerman with minor variations -- but no big inconsistencies.
 
Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch captain, is charged with second-degree murder for killing 17-year-old Travyon Martin in Sanford, Florida, on Feb. 26, 2012. Zimmerman told police he was pursuing the teenager throughout the neighborhood because there had been a series of break-ins in the area. The two fought, and Zimmerman said he was forced to draw his gun and kill Martin in self-defense.
 
Serino said he felt Zimmerman exaggerated the number of times he was hit that night -- but said he didn’t feel any “active deception” on Zimmerman’s part when he said he got out his vehicle while pursuing Martin to see what street he was on.
 
Osterman, who wrote a book about the case, said that when he took Zimmerman home from the police station after the shooting, Zimmerman wasn’t acting like himself. “He had a stunned look on his face. Wide-eyed, just kind of a little bit detached,” Osterman said on the stand Tuesday.
 
In a win for the prosecution, Judge Debra Nelson started off the day by asking jurors to dismiss Serino’s earlier testimony in which he said he believed Zimmerman was being truthful about what happened the night he shot Martin.
 
The court reporter read the exchange between defense attorney Mark O’Mara and Serino, a detective with the Sanford Police Department.
"So if we were to take pathological liar off the table as a possibility, you think he [Zimmerman] was telling the truth?" asked O'Mara.

"Yes," said Serino.

The judge told jurors to dismiss the question and the answer, telling them it was an improper statement made by the witness about Zimmerman’s credibility.
 
On his second day on the stand, Serino was asked by prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda if he thought Zimmerman was profiling Martin.
"If I were to believe that somebody was committing a crime, could that not be profiling that person?" asked de la Rionda.

"It could be construed as such, yes," said Serino.

"Was there any evidence that Trayvon Martin was committing a crime that evening, sir?" asked de la Rionda.

"No sir," said Serino.

"Was there any evidence that that young man was armed?" asked de la Rionda.

"No sir," said Serino.

The prosecutor also wanted to know Serino’s thoughts on the language Zimmerman used in his non-emergency call to police when he said, “these [expletive] punks always get away.”

"Is that something you would use in reference to somebody that you're going to invite over to dinner?" asked de la Rionda.

"No sir, I would not," said Serino.

"Does that seem like a friendly comment about somebody else?" asked de la Rionda.

"No sir, it does not," said Serino.

Serino also agreed that calling someone "[expletive] punks" is ill will and spite. To prove second-degree murder, prosecutors have to show Zimmerman acted with a “depraved mind” without regard for human life. 

The prosecutor then started to dig into some of the details of Zimmerman’s statement on the shooting to police, asking Serino about inconsistencies.
 
Serino said there was evidence to suggest that Zimmerman was still following Martin after the non-emergency operator told him not to. And Serino said red flags were raised for him when Zimmerman didn’t know the names of the streets in his neighborhood, because there are only three.
 
However, Serino also said that he didn’t feel there was “active deception” on Zimmerman’s part when he said he didn’t know where he was and had to get out of his vehicle to look at a street sign.
 
In regards to the fight that allegedly ensued between Zimmerman and Martin, Serino also said Zimmerman’s nose may have been bleeding back into his mouth, which could explain why Martin didn’t have blood on his hands. And he agreed with O’Mara that the purported smothering of Zimmerman by Martin could have happened only momentarily, perhaps not long enough to be heard on the 911 call made by a neighbor.
 
When questioned again by the prosecution, Serino admitted that he was speculating on the details of how the fight played out.
The last witness to take the stand before court recessed for lunch was Mark Osterman, who called Zimmerman “the best friend I’ve ever had.”

Osterman has worked in law enforcement for more than 20 years and said he’s the one who helped Zimmerman purchase his gun. "He asked whether he should or shouldn't -- to start with -- and I recommended that he should. Anybody who's a non-convicted felon should carry a firearm. The police aren't always there," said Osterman.

Osterman also recounted the story of the shooting that Zimmerman told him. He said that as the two scuffled, Zimmerman’s jacket came up, potentially exposing his gun to Martin. Osterman said Zimmerman was mostly focused on Martin’s hands, which he said were keeping him from breathing.

"It was critical. He was losing oxygen. He felt he was not able to breathe. That's why he was desperate to clear an airway," said Osterman.

Osterman said Zimmerman felt Martin grab either his gun or the holster.

"That’s when he had to -- he freed one of his hands and got the gun. He either broke contact or knocked Trayvon’s hand away, and then he drew it," said Osterman.

Osterman said Zimmerman shot Martin, crawled out from under him, holstered his weapon, got on Martin’s back and held his arms out, pinning them down.

But a photograph snapped by a neighbor shows Martin’s hands under his body. Osterman said he wasn’t aware of this fact.

Martin died of a single gunshot wound to the chest.
 
Wednesday afternoon, prosecutors called Dr. Valerie Rao, chief medical examiner for Duval County, Florida, to the stand to discuss the injuries Zimmerman allegedly sustained the night of the shooting.
 
Rao said the injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head were not consistent with being repeatedly slammed onto concrete. She said his head may have hit concrete one or maybe two times.
 
The doctor also said Zimmerman's facial injuries could have been created with one blow to the face, an assessment that seemingly contradicts what Zimmerman said in an interview with Fox's Sean Hannity that aired on July 18, 2012. The interview was played for the jury before Rao took the stand. Zimmerman told Hannity that Martin may have hit him the face a dozen times.
 
Rao said Zimmerman's injuries were "small" and "insignificant." He did not require any sutures, and he only seemed to need Band-Aids, according to Rao.
After Rao finished her testimony, prosecutors called Sanford police latent print analyst Kristen Bentsen to the stand. Bentsen said no useable fingerprint or palm print was recovered from Zimmerman's firearm. This evidence could contradict Zimmerman's claim that Martin grabbed his gun.

O'Mara asked Bentsen if environmental factors like rain can damage latent prints, and she replied “Yes.” It was raining periodically the night of the shooting, and the rain may have impacted what fingerprints were left on the gun.

Court ended early Tuesday to give attorneys time to prepare their arguments for a hearing regarding the admissibility of evidence of Zimmerman's interest in the criminal justice field, including his course work pursuing a criminal justice degree, his rejected application to become a police officer and his request to do a ride along with police.

Prosecutor Rich Mantei argued the evidence is relevant, because it proves Zimmerman wanted to catch bad guys, and it may show that Zimmerman knew what to say to law enforcement when they arrived at the scene.

Attorneys will present their arguments outside the presence of the jury when court resumes Wednesday morning at 8:30 a.m. ET.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/02/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-day-7?hpt=hp_t2

avxo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5605
  • Iron Pumping University Math Professor
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1044 on: July 02, 2013, 03:41:53 PM »
I agree w criminal negligence on this case since once the 911 operator told him to let it go and he took it on himself, he acted in a fashion not reasonable under the circumstances. 

I've heard that claim before - that the 911 operator told him to let it go and/or not follow. That's not true. When Zimmerman replied he was following him, the 911 operator said "we don't need you to do that." This, to me anyways, isn't the same as saying "don't follow him."

If I call my girlfriend and say: "I am getting a pizza on my way back" then "I don't need you to do that" is very different from "I don't want you to do that" or "don't do that." The "I don't need you to do that" takes no position on whether I should or shouldn't get pizza. The other answers do.

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22731
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1045 on: July 02, 2013, 03:44:07 PM »
I'm not aware that they are but I'm not following it much either

the only "race" stuff that I saw was the defense asking the woman who was talking to Martin on the phone about the "cracker" comment



If you are not following it much how do you know race isn't being used an an issue in this case?

Its sounds like its being attempted or suggested:

Yes.  If you read the comments leading up the charge, it was largely about race.  The affidavit charging Zimmerman accused him of profiling Martin.  That was clearly referring to race, although once the trial started and they had zero evidence of racial profiling, they said Martin was profiled based on his age and clothing, which is a really dumb argument.  

They also got prior 911 calls admitted where Zimmerman called about other black guys.  They're not going to expressly argue he profiled those guys on race.  It will just be the elephant in the room.  

What's interesting is the entire Martin team stepped away from the race angle after the girlfriend confirmed it was Martin who referred to Zimmerman using the N word and called him a "creepy a@@ cracker."  That is testimony that came out on direct from the prosecutors.    

That being said, the prosecutors are NOT suggesting race as a motivation but instead profiling?  

So if it was a white guy in a hoody Zimmerman would have followed him too?

Archer77

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14174
  • Team Shizzo
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1046 on: July 02, 2013, 03:46:15 PM »
They really have no evidence for murder 2.  You can tell that by the prosecutions entire case revolving around arguing that Zimmerman is a pathological liar with malicious intent.  It's kind of insane that the judge would tell the jury to disregard the detectives statement that he believed Zimmerman was telling the truth.
A

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1047 on: July 02, 2013, 03:48:38 PM »
If you are not following it much how do you know race isn't being used an an issue in this case?

Its sounds like its being attempted or suggested:

That being said, the prosecutors are NOT suggesting race as a motivation but instead profiling?  

So if it was a white guy in a hoody Zimmerman would have followed him too?

I said race is not an issue i.e. it has nothing to do with this case (in my opinion)

Zimmerman did appear to be profiling and had something like 40+ calls to the cops but I think only about 5 of those calls are being submitted (I could be completely wrong about that)

Archer77

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14174
  • Team Shizzo
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1048 on: July 02, 2013, 03:50:51 PM »
I said race is not an issue i.e. it has nothing to do with this case (in my opinion)

Zimmerman did appear to be profiling and had something like 40+ calls to the cops but I think only about 5 of those calls are being submitted (I could be completely wrong about that)

Do you think Zimmerman would have been prosecuted if everything about the victim was the same but he was white? Think about it.
A

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63906
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1049 on: July 02, 2013, 03:53:20 PM »
I've heard that claim before - that the 911 operator told him to let it go and/or not follow. That's not true. When Zimmerman replied he was following him, the 911 operator said "we don't need you to do that." This, to me anyways, isn't the same as saying "don't follow him."

If I call my girlfriend and say: "I am getting a pizza on my way back" then "I don't need you to do that" is very different from "I don't want you to do that" or "don't do that." The "I don't need you to do that" takes no position on whether I should or shouldn't get pizza. The other answers do.

In addition to that, they essentially told him to maintain visual contact, which is impossible if the guy walks or runs away.