Author Topic: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting  (Read 216717 times)

George Whorewell

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1125 on: July 03, 2013, 08:04:42 PM »
The biased slant of the American media magnifies the leap of faith required to take the Prosecutions case seriously.

The qualifier "may" is sprinkled in all key areas of the press release. Bottom line is that it doesn't mean jack shit. The eye witness testimony fits the version of events given by Zimmerman. Whether some DNA or no DNA or tons of DNA were found on the jacket, in the bushes, on the gun or in the grass, it doesn't prove or disprove anything. Is anyone going to seriously argue that the beating Zimmerman took was self inflicted and that the only eyewitness lied about what he saw?

DNA doesn't have any bearing on the outcome of this case IMO. He either shot the kid on purpose, or he shot the kid in self defense. There is no grey area in that regard and the DNA evidence doesn't trump everything else which corroborates Zimmermans story. At worst, it takes Zimmerman's outcome from a slam dunk acquittal to the jury deliberating for an extra 40 minutes.   

avxo

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1126 on: July 03, 2013, 08:18:42 PM »
The biased slant of the American media magnifies the leap of faith required to take the Prosecutions case seriously.

The qualifier "may" is sprinkled in all key areas of the press release. Bottom line is that it doesn't mean jack shit. The eye witness testimony fits the version of events given by Zimmerman. Whether some DNA or no DNA or tons of DNA were found on the jacket, in the bushes, on the gun or in the grass, it doesn't prove or disprove anything. Is anyone going to seriously argue that the beating Zimmerman took was self inflicted and that the only eyewitness lied about what he saw?

DNA doesn't have any bearing on the outcome of this case IMO. He either shot the kid on purpose, or he shot the kid in self defense. There is no grey area in that regard and the DNA evidence doesn't trump everything else which corroborates Zimmermans story. At worst, it takes Zimmerman's outcome from a slam dunk acquittal to the jury deliberating for an extra 40 minutes.   

It proves or disproves a lot, actually. If they were in a fight, you'd expect to find evidence of one's DNA on the other. This isn't a conjecture. It's an observable, repeatable and testable effect. The absence of DNA isn't proof that no altercation happened of course. But it does bring into question Zimmerman's account that they were in a fight.

It's silly to suggest that the DNA evidence presented is meaningless and that the stories provided by witnesses trump it. Witnesses are, generally, unreliable and fallible and their memory isn't photographic. Indeed, their memory is almost often incorrect. This has been demonstrated again and again. Add to that their interpretation of events isn't necessarily indicative of what transpired.

So I'm puzzled that you would suggest that witnesses trump everything else and discount the DNA.

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1127 on: July 03, 2013, 08:46:10 PM »
i think zimm DEFINITELY shot trayvon in self defense.

But I also think he exaggeratd like crazy about the number of hits, the smothering, the "you're gonna die tonight MFer".

So he hurts his case for self-defense by creating a narrative of the attack that is far worse from the actual attack.  Tough to believe him on not being the aggressor (which is probably true), when he will lie about other things.

if he is found guilty, its' because the jury punishes him for being dishonest with the details, perhaps.  It sounds like he was justified in shooting, even without stretching the truth there.   but once you lie about 5 things, it's tough to believe you on the other 5 things, ya know? 

George Whorewell

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1128 on: July 03, 2013, 10:29:22 PM »
It proves or disproves a lot, actually. If they were in a fight, you'd expect to find evidence of one's DNA on the other. This isn't a conjecture. It's an observable, repeatable and testable effect. The absence of DNA isn't proof that no altercation happened of course. But it does bring into question Zimmerman's account that they were in a fight.

It's silly to suggest that the DNA evidence presented is meaningless and that the stories provided by witnesses trump it. Witnesses are, generally, unreliable and fallible and their memory isn't photographic. Indeed, their memory is almost often incorrect. This has been demonstrated again and again. Add to that their interpretation of events isn't necessarily indicative of what transpired.

So I'm puzzled that you would suggest that witnesses trump everything else and discount the DNA.


Are you  seriously making the argument that Zimmerman and Martin weren't in a fight due to inconclusive DNA results? lol  ::)

So, according to you, the DNA test, which admittedly cannot prove or disprove causation, nullifies the first hand testimony of an eye witness (for the prosecution no less), the testimony of the lead detective on the case (again, also for the prosecution) and Zimmerman's actual injuries? 

Come back to earth please.

avxo

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1129 on: July 03, 2013, 11:41:08 PM »
Are you  seriously making the argument that Zimmerman and Martin weren't in a fight due to inconclusive DNA results? lol  ::)

That's not the argument I'm making, but then again, it's easier to twist what someone says than it is to address what they actually said, isn't it?

I shouldn't even bother responding to a post that so obviously misrepresents my positions but I have five minutes to spare, so what the hell...

First let me point out that the DNA test wasn't inconclusive or, for that matter, conclusive as to whether a fight occurred or not. The expert in question testified it's unlikely that no DNA would have been transferred from Martin to the clothing of Zimmerman and vice versa, and that no evidence of Martin's DNA was found on the gun itself or the pistol grip, and yet that is what his examination concluded. If you're going to misrepresent what I said and what was said in Court then at least try to make your misrepresentation plausible.

I assert that if the expert witness in question provided accurate testimony (and I have no reason to doubt that he did) then there is a discrepancy between what the witnesses say they saw or heard and what some physical evidence suggests. This doesn't mean that they didn't fight. After all, it's entirely possible for the discrepancy to have a logical explanation. But whether you like it or not, there appears to be a discrepancy between the results of this DNA test and eye-witness testimony and other physical evidence.

Now, it's a well known fact that eye-witnesses aren't necessarily reliable and that their recollection of events can be far detached from what actually happened for a number of reasons. So what I suggest isn't that a fight never occurred, but that there is a discrepancy and that it raises questions about what happened and the severity of the altercation.

If you're going to reply to this then please try to understand my position. You wouldn't want me to think that your misrepresentation was intentional and a result of your, shall we be polite and say less-than-truthful nature?


So, according to you, the DNA test, which admittedly cannot prove or disprove causation, nullifies the first hand testimony of an eye witness (for the prosecution no less), the testimony of the lead detective on the case (again, also for the prosecution) and Zimmerman's actual injuries?

You know... I'm not responsible or liable because you misinterpreted what I wrote. I never said that the DNA disproved any of the testimony provided in this case. But now it's starting to sound as if you're misrepresenting things on purpose. You should probably stop doing that.


Come back to earth please.

Jeez, I was about to type the same thing to you. What are the chances?

tonymctones

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1130 on: July 04, 2013, 04:50:01 AM »
doesn't mean he started the fight

he just asked the creepy weird dude why he was following him

from that point no one knows what happened

If Zimmerman had not been following him then Martin would not have asked him why are you following me (or whatever it is he said)

BTW - Zimmerman is being exposed more and more each day as a pathological liar and having no remorse and believing that what happened was "gods plan" is down right creepy
agreed, there is no evidence that zimmerman started the physical altercation is there?

would zimmerman have followed trayvon if he had not run away?

hahah as soon as this guy mentioned God your atheist alarm went off hard core didnt it? your so biased its not even funny

Skip8282

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1131 on: July 04, 2013, 05:55:38 AM »

   but once you lie about 5 things, it's tough to believe you on the other 5 things, ya know? 




Yeah, you suffer that problem here, ya know.

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1132 on: July 04, 2013, 07:26:49 AM »
agreed, there is no evidence that zimmerman started the physical altercation is there?

would zimmerman have followed trayvon if he had not run away?

I doubt zimm would have had to follow him, had he not run away.  He could have just stayed in his truck :)

Now, there is plenty of evidence that at some point zimm was the aggressor and trayvon was running away like a scared bitch. 

And your line of "zimm lost visual of the man he was pursuing momentarily" doesn't hold up, dude.  Because police lose visual of suspects all the time in chases, they keep running in the same direction, and they usually find the person again.  And we all know zimm was very good with police procedure.  He just didn't have common sense to let the real police do their job.

tonymctones

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1133 on: July 04, 2013, 07:34:23 AM »
I doubt zimm would have had to follow him, had he not run away.  He could have just stayed in his truck :)

Now, there is plenty of evidence that at some point zimm was the aggressor and trayvon was running away like a scared bitch. 

And your line of "zimm lost visual of the man he was pursuing momentarily" doesn't hold up, dude.  Because police lose visual of suspects all the time in chases, they keep running in the same direction, and they usually find the person again.  And we all know zimm was very good with police procedure.  He just didn't have common sense to let the real police do their job.
theres evidence that zimmerman followed trayvon yes, but again no evidence that zimmerman started the physical altercation.

again no evidence, we do know trayvon started the confrontation though...why would he stop there and not start the physical altercation as well?

see we can all play the ASSumption game, but it doesnt matter as there are no facts to back them up

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1134 on: July 04, 2013, 08:10:05 AM »
theres evidence that zimmerman followed trayvon yes, but again no evidence that zimmerman started the physical altercation.

again no evidence, we do know trayvon started the confrontation though...why would he stop there and not start the physical altercation as well?

see we can all play the ASSumption game, but it doesnt matter as there are no facts to back them up

How do we know this, tony?  what is the evidence?  specifically, please.

tonymctones

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1135 on: July 04, 2013, 08:12:24 AM »
How do we know this, tony?  what is the evidence?  specifically, please.
testimony from jabba

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1136 on: July 04, 2013, 08:42:59 AM »
testimony from jabba

please post the line from the piggy that showed trayvon started the confrontation.  I listened to her fat ass speak... i missed that line.  Exact quote please?

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1137 on: July 04, 2013, 08:44:43 AM »
of course you did....who spoke to who first dimwit?

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1138 on: July 04, 2013, 09:03:57 AM »
of course you did....who spoke to who first dimwit?

i asked you for a quote and you insulted me and asked me a Q back.

You don't have the quote/evidence, do ya?

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1139 on: July 04, 2013, 09:21:53 AM »
i asked you for a quote and you insulted me and asked me a Q back.

You don't have the quote/evidence, do ya?
hahah for someone who forms such opinions about this case you sure dont know much about it

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1140 on: July 04, 2013, 09:23:12 AM »
hahah for someone who forms such opinions about this case you sure dont know much about it

sooooooooo

no quote then?   

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1141 on: July 04, 2013, 09:30:03 AM »
"What are you following me for?"

look it up dip shit and while youre at it get the facts of the case

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1142 on: July 04, 2013, 09:37:29 AM »
"What are you following me for?"

#1) In English, where does "Why are you following me" equal "I will now punch you in the face".   Quite a leap you made there.

#2) Do you find jabba the hut credible now?   I thought she was a lying piece of shit - you believe her, huh?

Tony, if the only proof you have that trayvon did indeed throw the first punch is an illiterate sea cow's word about him asking a quesiton, well, I don't think you have proof lol

tonymctones

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1143 on: July 04, 2013, 09:40:28 AM »
#1) In English, where does "Why are you following me" equal "I will now punch you in the face".   Quite a leap you made there.

#2) Do you find jabba the hut credible now?   I thought she was a lying piece of shit - you believe her, huh?

Tony, if the only proof you have that trayvon did indeed throw the first punch is an illiterate sea cow's word about him asking a quesiton, well, I don't think you have proof lol
where did I say trayvon started the physical altercation?

what I said is that he started the confrontation and he did....

Lol so by that same token you cant use anything zimmerman said against him as he is not credible?


tonymctones

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1144 on: July 04, 2013, 09:41:09 AM »
making you chase your own tail is indeed a good amount of fun dimwit

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1145 on: July 04, 2013, 10:12:11 AM »
where did I say trayvon started the physical altercation?

what I said is that he started the confrontation and he did....

I see... asking another man a question "why are you following me" is the same as starting a confrontation?

So initiating a chase is NOT starting a confrontation, but asking someone a question is.   Weird.

tonymctones

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1146 on: July 04, 2013, 10:14:42 AM »
I see... asking another man a question "why are you following me" is the same as starting a confrontation?

So initiating a chase is NOT starting a confrontation, but asking someone a question is.   Weird.
LOL who started the chase...the runner or the chaser?

hahahah spin now dimwit, spin

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1147 on: July 04, 2013, 10:17:39 AM »
LOL who started the chase...the runner or the chaser?

hahahah spin now dimwit, spin

it's not a chase unless one person is pursuing ;)

it's a skinny twink out for a jog until zimmerman gets out of the truck and says "He's running and i'm following him".

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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1148 on: July 04, 2013, 10:21:40 AM »
it's not a chase unless one person is pursuing ;)

it's a skinny twink out for a jog until zimmerman gets out of the truck and says "He's running and i'm following him".
and you cant chase someone who doesnt run...

not that either are illegal, so why you and the rest of the morons continue to bring it up is beyond logic


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Re: Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting
« Reply #1149 on: July 04, 2013, 10:24:13 AM »
and you cant chase someone who doesnt run...
not that either are illegal, so why you and the rest of the morons continue to bring it up is beyond logic

I can hardly blame a rape victim becuase "if you didn't have that vagina, it wouldn't be a rape".

Skinny twink goes jogging, it's raining, it's not a chase.
Armed man gets out and announces "he's running, I'm following", it suddenly becomes a chase.

The victim of a rape, chase, or murder doesn't earn blame because "you can't rape someone who refuses you sex..."