Abortion doctor shot to death in church.

[Straw Man]

now here is guy who seems totally sane and his extreme religious beliefs certainly don't make him appear to be crazy at all.   

[tonymctones]

AGAIN - I never said Christianity advocates killing of this doctor.  I'm saying that it's likely that his Christian beliefs drove him to this insane decision.    Sometimes extreme religious belief makes people crazy.    

LOL iono what you think youre saying here, but what it translates into is that the religion drove him to this...this is IMPOSSIBLE as the religion doesnt say to do this, do you understand? you cant blame religion or try and make religion copable to his heinous actions when the religion itself is against them...

[Straw Man]

LOL iono what you think youre saying here, but what it translates into is that the religion drove him to this...this is IMPOSSIBLE as the religion doesnt say to do this, do you understand? you cant blame religion or try and make religion copable to his heinous actions when the religion itself is against them...

the word you're looking for is culpable. 

Do you think Randall Terry's religious beliefs have anything to do with his views on abortion and on Dr. Tiller in particular.

I gotta finish some work before 6pm and then get home.  I'll chat with you later.

btw - were  you able to make it through that entire video?

[tu_holmes]

LOL iono what you think youre saying here, but what it translates into is that the religion drove him to this...this is IMPOSSIBLE as the religion doesnt say to do this, do you understand? you cant blame religion or try and make religion copable to his heinous actions when the religion itself is against them...

I see what you're saying... But wouldn't you say that religion feeds the reasoning of some of these types of people... No... It's not religion that says "kill him", but isn't it often religion how people reason that it's "ok" to kill him?

They see themselves as doing "God's work" so to speak?

[tonymctones]

I see what you're saying... But wouldn't you say that religion feeds the reasoning of some of these types of people... No... It's not religion that says "kill him", but isn't it often religion how people reason that it's "ok" to kill him?

They see themselves as doing "God's work" so to speak?

This point i see but that doesnt make the religion culpable(better straw)again if the religion doesnt advocate those violent actions its not the religion that is to blame its the nutjob to blame...If it wasnt this cause this nutjob would simply have another one...you cant hold religion responsible for something that it doesnt preach.

[Colossus_500]

There will be a plethora of information in the coming days that will reveal how irrational the man who killed Dr. Tiller was, and that he was as ridiculous in his ideology as those who are on the other end of the spectrum. 

Regardless of the fact that I vehemently disagreed with his practice of taking the lives of babies in the most violent manner, the sanctity of Dr. Tiller's life was no less than these children.  My heart goes out to Dr. Tiller's wife who had to endure watching some total nutball take her husband's wife (she was in the choir).   

No one wins in this story.  No one.   

[tonymctones]

There will be a plethora of information in the coming days that will reveal how irrational the man who killed Dr. Tiller was, and that he was as ridiculous in his ideology as those who are on the other end of the spectrum. 

Regardless of the fact that I vehemently disagreed with his practice of taking the lives of babies in the most violent manner, the sanctity of Dr. Tiller's life was no less than these children.  My heart goes out to Dr. Tiller's wife who had to endure watching some total nutball take her husband's wife (she was in the choir).   

No one wins in this story.  No one.   

this is what this thread should be about, not blaming religion or political ideology...

[tonymctones]

the word you're looking for is culpable. 

Do you think Randall Terry's religious beliefs have anything to do with his views on abortion and on Dr. Tiller in particular.

I gotta finish some work before 6pm and then get home.  I'll chat with you later.

btw - were  you able to make it through that entire video?

i havent watched it im in the middle of a few things myself...ill be honest if its more then 2 mins i probably wont be able to finish it unless it has good looking women in it...ill try and watch it though

[tu_holmes]

This point i see but that doesnt make the religion culpable(better straw)again if the religion doesnt advocate those violent actions its not the religion that is to blame its the nutjob to blame...If it wasnt this cause this nutjob would simply have another one...you cant hold religion responsible for something that it doesnt preach.

Maybe, but the lack of tolerance of some religions is definitely a good starting point for the reasoning to commit certain acts.

Kind of like the crazies who fly planes into buildings.

[tonymctones]

Maybe, but the lack of tolerance of some religions is definitely a good starting point for the reasoning to commit certain acts.

Kind of like the crazies who fly planes into buildings.

LOL you mean like the intolerance of much of the left for ppl who dont believe the way they do?

[Straw Man]

LOL you mean like the intolerance of much of the left for ppl who dont believe the way they do?

people on the left are intolerant of people on the right forcing their views on Everyone.

I have a solution that's a perfect compromise and both sides get exactly what they want.

If you're on the right and against abortion then don't get one

If you're on the left and make the choice that an abortion in right for your circumstance then get one and live with your choice

See how easy it is?

Both sides get exactly what they want

I'm sure the people on the left would be fine with that compromise

How about people on the right?

They are rational, tolerant people who are not trying to impose their beliefs on others correct?

They would be fine with that solution right?

I wonder why no one has ever thought of this before.

It so simple

[tu_holmes]

LOL you mean like the intolerance of much of the left for ppl who dont believe the way they do?

I don't see the humor you do.

The left has intolerance for people who tell them what to do and how to live their lives... It's not the beliefs they are intolerant of... It's the way they are forced upon people.

[tonymctones]

people on the left are intolerant of people on the right forcing their views on Everyone.

I have a solution that's a perfect compromise and both sides get exactly what they want.

If you're on the right and against abortion then don't get one

If you're on the left and make the choice that an abortion in right for your circumstance then get one and live with your choice

See how easy it is?

Both sides get exactly what they want

I'm sure the people on the left would be fine with that compromise

How about people on the right?

They are rational, tolerant people who are not trying to impose their beliefs on others correct?

They would be fine with that solution right?

I wonder why no one has ever thought of this before.

It so simple

well for ppl who believe the fetus to be a living human that really doesnt apply as it is basically murder...would you be ok if i went around killing ppl as long as it didnt effect you? doubt it.

[tonymctones]

I don't see the humor you do.

The left has intolerance for people who tell them what to do and how to live their lives... It's not the beliefs they are intolerant of... It's the way they are forced upon people.

plenty of left ideals are pushed upon ppl dont be ignorant or is politcal correctness something that religion drew up to scare their followers?

[24KT]

I think elective late term abortions are aweful and should be illegal.  If you knew the details, I can't imagine the vast majority of you wouldn't agree.  I am mostly pro-choice though and think we should not prevent 1st term abortions...though its a very tough topic and I understand both sides.

However, this guy is guilty of murder, which requires just punishment.  The guy was obviously a fanatic and unstable.

Jag, MSMBC and Fox news has basically the same programs from opposite point of views.  They both work off the emotions of their followers, thats pretty easy to see unless you are so deeply entrenched on one side or the other.  Fox is much better in the morning and afternoon.  The evening is where both channels pander to their respective audiences.  Olbermann is nearly unwatchable, he & Maddow are appaulingly sarcastic and condescending.  At least as annoying as when O'Reily rants and cuts people off when asking them questions...or when Beck gets all emotional.  I don't like any of their styles.

I don't deny this. What I'm saying is that Olbermann & Maddows' audiences are far more level headed and menatlly stable than O'reilly's or Hannity's audiences. That is the difference. O'Reilly's & Hannity's audiences need to be lobotomized if they haven't been so already. They cater to the most twisted and mentally instable segments of society.

[Straw Man]

well for ppl who believe the fetus to be a living human that really doesnt apply as it is basically murder...would you be ok if i went around killing ppl as long as it didnt effect you? doubt it.

fine - if some people believe that then don't get an abortion

but you don't get to impose your beliefs on others

no one on the left is telling anyone on the right they must get an abortion

do you see the difference (seriously)

[Straw Man]

plenty of left ideals are pushed upon ppl dont be ignorant or is politcal correctness something that religion drew up to scare their followers?

how about giving us an example or two

[tu_holmes]

plenty of left ideals are pushed upon ppl dont be ignorant or is politcal correctness something that religion drew up to scare their followers?

You're saying telling other people to not be mean or derogatory is the same as telling people that if you don't believe in God you're going to hell?

When was the last time you saw an Atheist stand on a street corner with a Bull Horn and tell people that if they don't stop believing in God then bad things will happen to them?

[24KT]

You're saying telling other people to not be mean or derogatory is the same as telling people that if you don't believe in God you're going to hell?

When was the last time you saw an Atheist stand on a street corner with a Bull Horn and tell people that if they don't stop believing in God then bad things will happen to them?

That raving misandryst RavenNicWilliams had a really good video about this very subject,
but unfortunately she went too far and got her account suspended. She really broke it down though.

[Dos Equis]

Palin Condemns Abortion Doc's Murder

Monday, June 1, 2009 8:32 PM

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin released the following statement on her SarahPac Web site Monday condemning the murder of abortion physician George Tiller:

"I feel sorrow for the Tiller family. I respect the sanctity of life and the tragedy that took place today in Kansas clearly violates respect for life. This murder also damages the positive message of life, for the unborn, and for those living. Ask yourself, 'What will those who have not yet decided personally where they stand on this issue take away from today's event in Kansas?'

Regardless of my strong objection to Dr. Tiller's abortion practices, violence is never an answer in advancing the pro-life message."
 
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/palin_abortion_doc/2009/06/01/220367.html

[tonymctones]

fine - if some people believe that then don't get an abortion

but you don't get to impose your beliefs on others

no one on the left is telling anyone on the right they must get an abortion

do you see the difference (seriously)

i see the difference do you see that certain ppl believe this to be murder? again would you be ok if i killed ppl as long as it didnt effect you? murder is wrong in all cases, so why would they be ok with this instance?

[tonymctones]

how about giving us an example or two

political correctness itself is an example...

You're saying telling other people to not be mean or derogatory is the same as telling people that if you don't believe in God you're going to hell?

When was the last time you saw an Atheist stand on a street corner with a Bull Horn and tell people that if they don't stop believing in God then bad things will happen to them?

LOL again you commit a major fallacy of the left arguing that everybody who is pro life is a religious nut job... argue from logic not from bias...

If you believe abortion to be murder then why would you be ok with it?

ps. political correctness isnt just in words its in actions, suppressing actions, limiting oppurtunities of others...affirmative action ring a bell?...the fire fighters in conn. ring a bell?

[tu_holmes]

political correctness itself is an example...
LOL again you commit a major fallacy of the left arguing that everybody who is pro life is a religious nut job... argue from logic not from bias...

If you believe abortion to be murder then why would you be ok with it?

ps. political correctness isnt just in words its in actions, suppressing actions, limiting oppurtunities of others...affirmative action ring a bell?...the fire fighters in conn. ring a bell?

Tony, you use LOL quite a bit when nothing is actually funny.

I'm not saying that everyone who is pro-life is a religious nut job... I didn't even mention pro-life people... I just said people standing on street corners telling you you're going to hell... I meant in general, for being sinners or whatever.

There was a group on La Brea about a month or so ago just standing out there with a Bull Horn telling people they were going to Hell if they weren't saved. It wasn't about Abortion (it may have been about homosexuality, I dunno, I didn't pay any attention to what they were preaching, just that they WERE preaching), but my point is you NEVER see an Athiest do that.

Never... It just does not happen... At least I've NEVER seen it. Not once.

I however, HAVE seen religious people do what I've stated above.

This goes well beyond Abortion... My point is that you can talk about how this person is a religious nut or whatever, but the fact of the matter is, it's a RELIGIOUS nut... It's not an "athiestic nut"... That just doesn't happen.

Hell, I've never even heard of an Athiest going nuts like that except some power hungry person like Stalin or Hitler, and they just hate religion because it messes with their power base. Not because they really care about religion... They just knew that people will follow their religions over them and that wasn't allowed.

You certainly don't hear about any Athiest terrorist or Athiest extremists anywhere.

[tonymctones]

Tony, you use LOL quite a bit when nothing is actually funny.

I'm not saying that everyone who is pro-life is a religious nut job... I didn't even mention pro-life people... I just said people standing on street corners telling you you're going to hell... I meant in general, for being sinners or whatever.

There was a group on La Brea about a month or so ago just standing out there with a Bull Horn telling people they were going to Hell if they weren't saved. It wasn't about Abortion (it may have been about homosexuality, I dunno, I didn't pay any attention to what they were preaching, just that they WERE preaching), but my point is you NEVER see an Athiest do that.

Never... It just does not happen... At least I've NEVER seen it. Not once.

I however, HAVE seen religious people do what I've stated above.

This goes well beyond Abortion... My point is that you can talk about how this person is a religious nut or whatever, but the fact of the matter is, it's a RELIGIOUS nut... It's not an "athiestic nut"... That just doesn't happen.

Hell, I've never even heard of an Athiest going nuts like that except some power hungry person like Stalin or Hitler, and they just hate religion because it messes with their power base. Not because they really care about religion... They just knew that people will follow their religions over them and that wasn't allowed.

You certainly don't hear about any Athiest terrorist or Athiest extremists anywhere.

LOL  hahah im one of those ppl who can find humor in just about anything bro no offense meant to plz dont take any...

LOL sorry again but the idea that there are no atheist terrorist or atheistic nuts is fuking laughable...there are plenty of terrorist out there who commit crimes that have nothing to do with religion...there are also plenty of atheist activist simply b/c they arent preaching religion doesnt mean they arent preaching...

[tu_holmes]

LOL  hahah im one of those ppl who can find humor in just about anything bro no offense meant to plz dont take any...

LOL sorry again but the idea that there are no atheist terrorist or atheistic nuts is fuking laughable...there are plenty of terrorist out there who commit crimes that have nothing to do with religion...there are also plenty of atheist activist simply b/c they arent preaching religion doesnt mean they arent preaching...

I didn't say that there weren't terrorists who weren't religious... I said there was no Athiest terrorists.