stimulate, dont annihilate!!! key to training success

[chaos]

Serious question for all these "one set to failure" guys.........what weight/reps do you use? I mean do you use a weight you fail at 10 reps? 15? 25? 3? 4? How do you dictate that? What I'm asking is what says that failure at 3 reps is less stimulating to muscle growth than failure at 30 reps?

[tbombz]

Serious question for all these "one set to failure" guys.........what weight/reps do you use? I mean do you use a weight you fail at 10 reps? 15? 25? 3? 4? How do you dictate that? What I'm asking is what says that failure at 3 reps is less stimulating to muscle growth than failure at 30 reps?

is that really what your asking? isnt the answer obvious? 


..i dont do one set to failure, but i know that it works very well for certain individuals. a buddy of mine is 5'8'' 250 10% year round and thats the way he trains

[Master Blaster]

is that really what your asking? isnt the answer obvious? 


..i dont do one set to failure, but i know that it works very well for certain individuals. a buddy of mine is 5'8'' 250 10% year round and thats the way he trains

is that a legit gh15 approved stat?

[tbombz]

is that a legit gh15 approved stat?

    yea he has won some regional shows, placed well at state shows

[PJim]

Oh, but I totally disagree with how you train and I bet you don't actually train that way either, I bet your "warm up sets" are actual working sets.  

(just like Dorian)

To be honest, you should warm up but I rarely do. I know I should, but I always cycle to the gym which is quite a long way and I feel ready to go by that time.

[Hulkotron]

Will you idiots stop citing steroid users as examples for why your "theory of hypertrophy" works?  You can be on steroids and literally do fuck all and gain some muscle.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8637535

[chaos]

is that really what your asking? isnt the answer obvious? 


..i dont do one set to failure, but i know that it works very well for certain individuals. a buddy of mine is 5'8'' 250 10% year round and thats the way he trains

Exactly what I'm asking.......after all when the muscle fails, it fails, right? So why bother doing more reps if you can hit failure at 3-4 reps?


The whole "one set to failure" is a bunch of bullshit anyways, all those guys do tons of "warm up sets" before their one set.....oh brother.

[PJim]

dr.chimps sent me this link - trailer for the upcoming 'Atlas Shrugged' 3 part movie

http://io9.com/#!5758767/the-atlas-shrugged-trailer-stars-a-bunch-of-people-yelling-about-the-railroad-industry

  I hope it lives up to what it should be.

[PJim]

Exactly what I'm asking.......after all when the muscle fails, it fails, right? So why bother doing more reps if you can hit failure at 3-4 reps?


The whole "one set to failure" is a bunch of bullshit anyways, all those guys do tons of "warm up sets" before their one set.....oh brother.

Here's my two cents Chaos. I alway aim to do at the very least 6 repetitions with a certain weight. Now the reason I don't just do one or two repetitions all out to failure is simple; the closer you get to your 1 rep max, the more likely you are going to injure yourself as the muscle is trying to fire at the limit of its capabilities from the start. Take for example a recent workout; one exercise was machine 3/4 deadlifts. My last effort I used 220kg for 15 brutal repetitions, also focusing on slow, controlled negatives for the last 5 reps with the aid of my training partners. Now, God knows what my 1 rep max would be on that exercise but just from a psychological stand point I would feel defeated by just looking at the amount of plates I was lifting. Doing a few more reps gives you time to neurologically set up (mind/muscle crap), and provide you with the preparation to get your form down for the failure rep. I'm not just saying this either, but I really do just walk in the gym and get to work straight away. The most I'll ever do in the way of a warm up is one set of something ridiculously light just to get a feel for the movement. Relatively speaking, there's no work/intensity put into any warm up.

[chaos]

Here's my two cents Chaos. I alway aim to do at the very least 6 repetitions with a certain weight. Now the reason I don't just do one or two repetitions all out to failure is simple; the closer you get to your 1 rep max, the more likely you are going to injure yourself as the muscle is trying to fire at the limit of its capabilities from the start. Take for example a recent workout; one exercise was machine 3/4 deadlifts. My last effort I used 220kg for 15 brutal repetitions, also focusing on slow, controlled negatives for the last 5 reps with the aid of my training partners. Now, God knows what my 1 rep max would be on that exercise but just from a psychological stand point I would feel defeated by just looking at the amount of plates I was lifting. Doing a few more reps gives you time to neurologically set up (mind/muscle crap), and provide you with the preparation to get your form down for the failure rep. I'm not just saying this either, but I really do just walk in the gym and get to work straight away. The most I'll ever do in the way of a warm up is one set of something ridiculously light just to get a feel for the movement. Relatively speaking, there's no work/intensity put into any warm up.

How could it be your last effort if you walk in and go straight to work

[PJim]

How could it be your last effort if you walk in and go straight to work

By last effort, I mean what I achieved last time I trained in relation to previous training days.

[pellius]

Here's my two cents Chaos. I alway aim to do at the very least 6 repetitions with a certain weight. Now the reason I don't just do one or two repetitions all out to failure is simple; the closer you get to your 1 rep max, the more likely you are going to injure yourself as the muscle is trying to fire at the limit of its capabilities from the start. Take for example a recent workout; one exercise was machine 3/4 deadlifts. My last effort I used 220kg for 15 brutal repetitions, also focusing on slow, controlled negatives for the last 5 reps with the aid of my training partners. Now, God knows what my 1 rep max would be on that exercise but just from a psychological stand point I would feel defeated by just looking at the amount of plates I was lifting. Doing a few more reps gives you time to neurologically set up (mind/muscle crap), and provide you with the preparation to get your form down for the failure rep. I'm not just saying this either, but I really do just walk in the gym and get to work straight away. The most I'll ever do in the way of a warm up is one set of something ridiculously light just to get a feel for the movement. Relatively speaking, there's no work/intensity put into any warm up.

incorrect, pjim. jones and mentzer would be disappointed. i'd jump in here but i can only type with one hand because my other hand is greasy while eating fried chicken and fries. i'll give you a hint: inroads, my friend, inroads. same reason why dorian, mentzer, viator (under jones) may have done one set per exercise but not one set per muscle group.

hmmmm...kfc drumsticks and thighs.....extra crispy...

[PJim]

incorrect, pjim. jones and mentzer would be disappointed. i'd jump in here but i can only type with one hand because my other hand is greasy while eating fried chicken and fries. i'll give you a hint: inroads, my friend, inroads. same reason why dorian, mentzer, viator (under jones) may have done one set per exercise but not one set per muscle group.

hmmmm...kfc drumsticks and thighs.....extra crispy...

I'm lost? I understand inroads (HD 2 more than elaborated). I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying?

[Master Blaster]

incorrect, pjim. jones and mentzer would be disappointed. i'd jump in here but i can only type with one hand because my other hand is greasy while eating fried chicken and fries. i'll give you a hint: inroads, my friend, inroads. same reason why dorian, mentzer, viator (under jones) may have done one set per exercise but not one set per muscle group.

hmmmm...kfc drumsticks and thighs.....extra crispy...

Fuck man, I'm so hungry! 

[dj181]

Question to tbombz, Mr N, and PJim. Did any of you fellas take a look at "The Boise Experiment"?

[dj181]

To answer your question chaos, I do 3 to 8 reps per set, and then once I get more than 8 reps I bump up the weight. Mentzer generally recommended 6 to 10 reps for upper body, and 12 to 20 for lower body.

[wes]

Not many successful trainees/bodybuilders use Heavy Duty these days...........if any !!

The main reason Mentzer advocated it is because he wanted fame first of all,and he built the vast majority of his muscle mass using high volume training when he was younger..........add in lots of roids and decreased training time in the gym,and he simply maintained what he had already built earlier in his training life usinf HD.

As stated by others earlier in the thread,most guys who do use HD,usually do plenty of warmup sets,building up to their "one set to failure" which actually amounts to pyramid training.

[JP_RC]

Do a set to failure, get the fuck out of there. You've stimulated growth right there. You've just overcome the body's previous muscular ability and gave it a reason to respond and improve. Sure, that extra set won't COMPLETELY screw you, it just won't help you any more than the previous one already did.

This is not universal for everyone. I can tell you I tried the HIT routines of 1 set to failure and made no progress whatsoever. Now I do about 3 work sets per exercies and it works much better for growth in me.
HIT dogma doesn't always work out well in the real world...there are other things to consider such as time under tension, volume used as overload, e tc.
There definitively isn't "one true way to train" like you try to say, different things work for different people.

[big L dawg]

Do a set to failure, get the fuck out of there. You've stimulated growth right there. You've just overcome the body's previous muscular ability and gave it a reason to respond and improve. Sure, that extra set won't COMPLETELY screw you, it just won't help you any more than the previous one already did.

thats what pumpsters motto was...you ever see the build he created doing that?

[Coach is Back!]

HIIT is bullshit!

[FREAKgeek]

HIIT is bullshit!

HIT or HIIT?

[dj181]

I think he meant to say HIT, since he is known to have his clients practice HIIT, and in fact he even had a halfway decent post about high intensity interval training within a discussion/debate with fatpanda.