Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: illuminati on June 11, 2019, 12:15:51 PM
-
Man of Steel
Wiggs
Grinch
All Profess to know the Right Path & Worship a God
Do you all follow / know the same path ?
Is there more than one path to god & heaven ?
All 3 of you come across as Believing in what they say
It would be good if you all had a civil discussion & see if
There is any similarities or middle ground.
-
Your goodself
Wiggs
Grinch
All Profess to know the Right Path & Worship a God
Do you all follow / know the same path ?
Is there more than one path to god & heaven ?
All 3 of you come across as Believing in what they say
It would be good if you all had a civil discussion & see if
There is any similarities or middle ground.
I hear you and I have already replied to several of Wiggs comments and questions in an exhaustive manner in the past and his reply in all instances was the same.....silence. So I haven't pursued further.
Wiggs has stated that he would happily take on any religious leader of today in a debate and handle them easily. :) I don't mean this as boasting, but thus far he hasn't even handled me on a random bb board and I'm a freakin nobody ;D.
BHIs typically do not prefer the one-on-one debate style as it prevents street tactics such as over-talking of your opponent and it prevents usage of a gang mentality for intimidation.
Theologians like James White have held debates within his youtube channel with significant leaders of various BHI factions and literally ragdolled them with logic and theology. This is a point of contention for them because they typically target non-theologian, non-scholars on the streets and easily confuse and frustrate them with twisted scripture via eisegesis. When confronted with someone knowledgeable and prepared I've seen their tactics and argumentation crumble over and over time and time again.
I don't recall any conversation with Grinch (I could be wrong on that).
-
I hear you and I have already replied to several of Wiggs comments and questions in an exhaustive manner in the past and his reply in all instances was the same.....silence. So I haven't pursued further.
Wiggs has stated that he would happily take on any religious leader of today in a debate and handle them easily. :) I don't mean this as boasting, but thus far he hasn't even handled me on a random bb board and I'm a freakin nobody ;D.
BHIs typically do not prefer the one-on-one debate style as it prevents street tactics such as over-talking of your opponent and it prevents usage of a gang mentality for intimidation.
Theologians like James White have held debates within his youtube channel with significant leaders of various BHI factions and literally ragdolled them with logic and theology. This is a point of contention for them because they typically target non-theologian, non-scholars on the streets and easily confuse and frustrate them with twisted scripture via eisegesis. When confronted with someone knowledgeable and prepared I've seen their tactics and argumentation crumble over and over time and time again.
I don't recall any conversation with Grinch (I could be wrong on that).
The Wonders of Getbig 1 Minute I’ve posted a reply
And the Next It’s Changed into A new thread.!!
Thanks for your reply - I hope Wiggs & Grinch will come along
And post their beliefs & views - Should make for some interesting
Debate.
Me I’m not religious & I don’t believe in any kind of God.
That doesn’t prevent me from having an interest & trying to understand
Those that Do - Well all except Islam & jews as they are Very Similar & Not Good.
-
The Wonders of Getbig 1 Minute I’ve posted a reply
And the Next It’s Changed into A new thread.!!
Thanks for your reply - I hope Wiggs & Grinch will come along
And post their beliefs & views - Should make for some interesting
Debate.
Me I’m not religious & I don’t believe in any kind of God.
That doesn’t prevent me from having an interest & trying to understand
Those that Do - Well all except Islam & jews as they are Very Similar & Not Good.
I purposefully keep that thread free of discussion and debate as I note within it.
-
My sky wizard can beat up your sky wizard.
-
I purposefully keep that thread free of discussion and debate as I note within it.
Fine - No Worries 👍🏻
-
My sky wizard can beat up your sky wizard.
😱 ahhh but be careful as someone else’s Sky Wizard might just Blow your Sky wizard up.
Then which Sky Wizard would go to Heaven or Hell - Unless They repented 1st !!
Confused you will be if the different religious experts Start Talking.
I hope they do.
-
I've pondered this myself and don't see much hope in real and lasting civility.
If someone really believes GOD ordained it as TRUTH, you won't waiver.
Well they’re not posting their beliefs in this thread yet.
Shame - I’m non religious but would like to hear what they have to say in detail
And see who & why they have differing versions of an Ultimate God
As if there is A God there can only be one & one set of rules & teachings you would think.
-
Well they’re not posting their beliefs in this thread yet.
Shame - I’m non religious but would like to hear what they have to say in detail
And see who & why they have differing versions of an Ultimate God
As if there is A God there can only be one & one set of rules & teachings you would think.
While they gather their thoughts, you and I can ponder a bit on why there are so many different beliefs out there. From a general view, and of course there are always exceptions to the rule, people fashion/form their personal belief in the afterlife starting young. Children are taught by their parents and taken to their parents places of worship. This early introduction is hard to overcome later. The Rev Phelps hatemongering could be seen with his young grandchildren spouting the same anti gay rhetoric and hellfire and brimstone they heard from their parents and were subjected to early on. Looking at a religious map of the world it is easy to see the weight where you are born and to whom has a huge impact on which religion you will follow. To me this is a huge give away and really takes the supernatural out of the equation.
Part of growing, exploring and learning comes from reading and exposing yourself to other viewpoints and information. What many religions do is prohibit this by labeling anything that contradicts the teachings as satanic. Any exploration of other possible answers are discouraged. There are many examples of family members shunning other family members for not believing anymore the same as the others do. Religions are designed to isolate it's members from outside data, because it is dangerous, but not in the sense they believe it to be.
So its likely those you asked to chime in on why they believe as they do, will ultimately come down to indoctrination as a child, peer pressure as an adult etc. Where they were born, to whom, what state even, influences most religious people.
-
While they gather their thoughts, you and I can ponder a bit on why there are so many different beliefs out there. From a general view, and of course there are always exceptions to the rule, people fashion/form their personal belief in the afterlife starting young. Children are taught by their parents and taken to their parents places of worship. This early introduction is hard to overcome later. The Rev Phelps hatemongering could be seen with his young grandchildren spouting the same anti gay rhetoric and hellfire and brimstone they heard from their parents and were subjected to early on. Looking at a religious map of the world it is easy to see the weight where you are born and to whom has a huge impact on which religion you will follow. To me this is a huge give away and really takes the supernatural out of the equation.
Part of growing, exploring and learning comes from reading and exposing yourself to other viewpoints and information. What many religions do is prohibit this by labeling anything that contradicts the teachings as satanic. Any exploration of other possible answers are discouraged. There are many examples of family members shunning other family members for not believing anymore the same as the others do. Religions are designed to isolate it's members from outside data, because it is dangerous, but not in the sense they believe it to be.
So its likely those you asked to chime in on why they believe as they do, will ultimately come down to indoctrination as a child, peer pressure as an adult etc. Where they were born, to whom, what state even, influences most religious people.
Agree with pretty much all you said.
I’d like to see them discussing which is the only & Correct god out of so many
Also if they believe this is the only space rock to have life forms on it
Or in fact their views on space / stars / planets etc
I’d like to go further and see what they have to say about Quantum Mechanics
Just a few topics to get them started - And I’m being genuine in regards to listening
To what they have to say.
It doesn’t look like it’s going to happen though.
-
Agree with pretty much all you said.
I’d like to see them discussing which is the only & Correct god out of so many
Also if they believe this is the only space rock to have life forms on it
Or in fact their views on space / stars / planets etc
I’d like to go further and see what they have to say about Quantum Mechanics
Just a few topics to get them started - And I’m being genuine in regards to listening
To what they have to say.
It doesn’t look like it’s going to happen though.
Reminds me of a saying I once read when I was researching the bible. A Christian pointed out that the Atheist was being deceived by the devil into not believing the bible is real. The response was something along the lines of .. If a person is deceived do they know they are being deceived? If not, how do you know YOU aren't being deceived?
The common stance among differing religions is that the other has been deceived. Every other belief but the one I hold is false.
-
Agree with pretty much all you said.
I’d like to see them discussing which is the only & Correct god out of so many
Also if they believe this is the only space rock to have life forms on it
Or in fact their views on space / stars / planets etc
I’d like to go further and see what they have to say about Quantum Mechanics
Just a few topics to get them started - And I’m being genuine in regards to listening
To what they have to say.
It doesn’t look like it’s going to happen though.
What about those dinosaurs a couple thousand years ago that people rode around on?
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/128/414998399_4b1b06b1b8_b.jpg)
-
What about those dinosaurs a couple thousand years ago that people rode around on?
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/128/414998399_4b1b06b1b8_b.jpg)
Jesus was bad ass!
-
Jesus was bad ass!
You can't argue with the facts.
-
My sky wizard can beat up your sky wizard.
There's only one sky wizard and that's Jesus Christ! He's full of magic and impossible, supernatural, miraculous feats of wonder and he has his own special magic book (or grimoire as avxo likes to put it). It's full of stories of burning bushes, walking sticks turned into serpents, rivers of blood, seas parted down the middle, plagues of locusts and frogs, world altering global floods, talking donkeys, giants, monsters, armies of pagans, horrific acts of men, incest, sodomy, murder, sacrifices, adultery, fornication, slavery, warfare, debauchery, drunkeness, parties, evil, good, darkness, light, the beginning of time, the end of time, virgin births, groups of young men destroyed by bears, a man that draws super strength from his hair, angels, demons, etc....
And if that isn't enough to peak your interest you should also know it's 100% real and correct!!
-
Reminds me of a saying I once read when I was researching the bible. A Christian pointed out that the Atheist was being deceived by the devil into not believing the bible is real. The response was something along the lines of .. If a person is deceived do they know they are being deceived? If not, how do you know YOU aren't being deceived?
The common stance among differing religions is that the other has been deceived. Every other belief but the one I hold is false.
Very Good - And on point
That’s a hard one for anyone to argue against.
Perhaps then we are All Being Deceived by The Devil.
Maybe the Devil worshippers Have it Right Then,
Or are they Being Deceived by “The God” as a Test of Faith ?
-
There's only one sky wizard and that's Jesus Christ! He's full of magic and impossible, supernatural, miraculous feats of wonder and he has his own special magic book (or grimoire as avxo likes to put it). It's full of stories of burning bushes, walking sticks turned into serpents, rivers of blood, seas parted down the middle, plagues of locusts and frogs, world altering global floods, talking donkeys, giants, monsters, armies of pagans, horrific acts of men, incest, sodomy, murder, sacrifices, adultery, fornication, slavery, warfare, debauchery, drunkeness, parties, evil, good, darkness, light, the beginning of time, the end of time, virgin births, groups of young men destroyed by bears, a man that draws super strength from his hair, angels, demons, etc....
And if that isn't enough to peak your interest you should also know it's 100% real and correct!!
Wow - Most of That sounds like what it’s like working an inner city area / pub / club on a Saturday night
Sunday Morning - I’ve witnessed & had to deal with most of that. That’s also 100% Real & Correct.
On a more serious note to your reply - Yes it does sound very interesting & like something I might
Read. Only how do I know it’s all real events in there & not made up by The Writer or Writers.
That leads on to the next question who wrote it and when & did they witness these events.
I thought “God” was the Sky Wizard not his Son Jesus ?
-
Very Good - And on point
That’s a hard one for anyone to argue against.
Perhaps then we are All Being Deceived by The Devil.
Maybe the Devil worshippers Have it Right Then,
Or are they Being Deceived by “The God” as a Test of Faith ?
Satanist in the technical sense probably have it closer to right. Humanist even closer in my opinion.
-
There's only one sky wizard and that's Jesus Christ! He's full of magic and impossible, supernatural, miraculous feats of wonder and he has his own special magic book (or grimoire as avxo likes to put it). It's full of stories of burning bushes, walking sticks turned into serpents, rivers of blood, seas parted down the middle, plagues of locusts and frogs, world altering global floods, talking donkeys, giants, monsters, armies of pagans, horrific acts of men, incest, sodomy, murder, sacrifices, adultery, fornication, slavery, warfare, debauchery, drunkeness, parties, evil, good, darkness, light, the beginning of time, the end of time, virgin births, groups of young men destroyed by bears, a man that draws super strength from his hair, angels, demons, etc....
And if that isn't enough to peak your interest you should also know it's 100% real and correct!!
It's truly amazing you can write that, and then still believe it. Kudos!
-
Wow - Most of That sounds like what it’s like working an inner city area / pub / club on a Saturday night
Sunday Morning - I’ve witnessed & had to deal with most of that. That’s also 100% Real & Correct.
On a more serious note to your reply - Yes it does sound very interesting & like something I might
Read. Only how do I know it’s all real events in there & not made up by The Writer or Writers.
That leads on to the next question who wrote it and when & did they witness these events.
I thought “God” was the Sky Wizard not his Son Jesus ?
Well now it gets a tad complicated here. Jesus is the son of God, but he is also God. God sent himself down here as his son, to save us. Cool right?
-
Well now it gets a tad complicated here. Jesus is the son of God, but he is also God. God sent himself down here as his son, to save us. Cool right?
It does get complicated
Jesus is God & his son Jesus at the same time ?
Ahh I see said the blind man who couldn’t really see at All.
And what did God / Jesus save us From.
This duality Principle is getting into Quantum Mechanics Type Theories.
-
It does get complicated
Jesus is God & his son Jesus at the same time ?
Ahh I see said the blind man who couldn’t really see at All.
And what did God / Jesus save us From.
This duality Principle is getting into Quantum Mechanics Type Theories.
He saved us from eternity in hell due to our sinful nature. Because a God as you know if you studied QM is bound by rules and instead of snapping his fingers and saying "You are all cleansed of sin" he had to go through this process involving a pure sacrifice because thats how Gods rolled back then.
-
He saved us from eternity in hell due to our sinful nature. Because a God as you know if you studied QM is bound by rules and instead of snapping his fingers and saying "You are all cleansed of sin" he had to go through this process involving a pure sacrifice because thats how Gods rolled back then.
Ahh - Though if God / Jesus created us in his image
Why would he create us with a Sinful Nature - He could of just as easily
Created us without that & All would be Good & Peace / Love / Friendliness
On Earth .
So He created flawed humans so he could then come & save us from ourselves
By him being crucified - Seems like a lot of faffing about for something he could
Of just not given us in the 1st place.
-
He saved us from eternity in hell due to our sinful nature. Because a God as you know if you studied QM is bound by rules and instead of snapping his fingers and saying "You are all cleansed of sin" he had to go through this process involving a pure sacrifice because thats how Gods rolled back then.
Makes perfect sense to send your son (who is also you) to be brutally tortured by humans you created so that the same humans can be saved from endless torture in a hell that you created.
Sign me up.
-
Ahh - Though if God / Jesus created us in his image
Why would he create us with a Sinful Nature - He could of just as easily
Created us without that & All would be Good & Peace / Love / Friendliness
On Earth .
So He created flawed humans so he could then come & save us from ourselves
By him being crucified - Seems like a lot of faffing about for something he could
Of just not given us in the 1st place.
As the mythology goes, he did create us with a sinless nature (I think), but while Adam and Eve were chilling in the Garden of Eden, he gave them but one rule that he knew beforehand they would break. Do not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Apparently having knowledge back then was a bad thing. A talking serpent convinced Eve who convinced Adam to eat the fruit and now we all have to burn in hell for an eternity unless we buy into the religion and ask Jesus to save us from the hell he created for us. And Adults believe this stuff... it's truly amazing, you can't make this stuff up!...well, maybe you can... :)
-
As the mythology goes, he did create us with a sinless nature (I think), but while Adam and Eve were chilling in the Garden of Eden, he gave them but one rule that he knew beforehand they would break. Do not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Apparently having knowledge back then was a bad thing. A talking serpent convinced Eve who convinced Adam to eat the fruit and now we all have to burn in hell for an eternity unless we buy into the religion and ask Jesus to save us from the hell he created for us. And Adults believe this stuff... it's truly amazing, you can't make this stuff up!...well, maybe you can... :)
You can't argue with the facts.
-
You can't argue with the facts.
nope.. sure cant..
-
As the mythology goes, he did create us with a sinless nature (I think), but while Adam and Eve were chilling in the Garden of Eden, he gave them but one rule that he knew beforehand they would break. Do not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Apparently having knowledge back then was a bad thing. A talking serpent convinced Eve who convinced Adam to eat the fruit and now we all have to burn in hell for an eternity unless we buy into the religion and ask Jesus to save us from the hell he created for us. And Adults believe this stuff... it's truly amazing, you can't make this stuff up!...well, maybe you can... :)
🤣😂🤣
Ha Ha Ha - It Really is Totally Amazing That otherwise fairly intelligent Adults would
Believe Such utter Fairytales - I suppose it goes to Show the Gullibility / Vulnerability
Of Humans.
As When it’s Broken Down into Simple Logical Thought & understanding it’s Totally Ridiculous.
-
nope.. sure cant..
Well - Some Clearly Do & Believe we are Wrong & Damned To Hell for Eternity
-
Well - Some Clearly Do & Believe we are Wrong & Damned To Hell for Eternity
And they certainly have a right to that belief. But when you actually lay out the stories in the bible, it's amazing to me that adults can actually believe they happened. It seems logic is suspended for this. The same people who believe the Old and New Testament will poo poo the Mormon story as ridiculous and obviously fake with a sincere straight face.
-
And they certainly have a right to that belief. But when you actually lay out the stories in the bible, it's amazing to me that adults can actually believe they happened. It seems logic is suspended for this. The same people who believe the Old and New Testament will poo poo the Mormon story as ridiculous and obviously fake with a sincere straight face.
It’s as if it’s some sort of Mind warping / Brainwashing
Because if the stories / tales we’re related to anything else
Those same people would Laugh at them & think they were stupid
And not Believe any of that Nonsense
-
Thomas Aquinas believed it and he was considered very intelligent.
I have Indian physicians who live near me who believe in the thousands of gods of Hinduism.
-
It's truly amazing you can write that, and then still believe it. Kudos!
Well everyone knows God is real. Most just suppress that truth so they can live however they want and convince themselves they aren't accountable to God's laws.
The difference are those that read his word, do what it says, seek his righteousness through salvation in Christ and repent of sin. These folks know the Holy Spirit of God in powerful, tangible ways and have no more reservations.
Unless of course they again choose to live sinfully and dismiss God again. It's all about the Holy Spirit and without that most self deceive themselves into believing they understand the word of God.
-
He saved us from eternity in hell due to our sinful nature. Because a God as you know if you studied QM is bound by rules and instead of snapping his fingers and saying "You are all cleansed of sin" he had to go through this process involving a pure sacrifice because thats how Gods rolled back then.
Makes perfect sense to send your son (who is also you) to be brutally tortured by humans you created so that the same humans can be saved from endless torture in a hell that you created.
Sign me up.
I have years and years of available posts that address all of these comments. You can also Google much more scholarly, exhaustive commentaries and apologetic works. All there for you to seek out. Public library has tons of material as well.
Of course you are very welcome.
-
I have years and years of available posts that address all of these comments. You can also Google much more scholarly, exhaustive commentaries and apologetic works. All there for you to seek out. Public library has tons of material as well.
Of course you are very welcome.
Ive read your comments for years and years. None of them actually address the issues, they are regurgitated apologist spins. But then you probably know that deep down.
-
Ive read your comments for years and years. None of them actually address the issues, they are regurgitated apologist spins. But then you probably know that deep down.
Says the garden variety Bible-quoting atheist. lol
-
I have years and years of available posts that address all of these comments. You can also Google much more scholarly, exhaustive commentaries and apologetic works. All there for you to seek out. Public library has tons of material as well.
Of course you are very welcome.
Please explain / Answer some of the questions already asked in this thread
And Explain the Anomalies Agnostic has pointed out.
-
Says the garden variety Bible-quoting atheist. lol
love the lol at the end... I can hear it in a kind of nervous chuckle
-
God exists. Just look around you.
How could all this exist if there was no God?
The birds, the bees, the moon, the sea, Hitler, serial killers, pedos, cancer, birth defects, etc.
It's so obvious there is a God.
And He loves you!
-
love the lol at the end... I can hear it in a kind of nervous chuckle
Nervous about what?? lol
You should think more like belly laugh. :)
-
God exists. Just look around you.
How could all this exist if there was no God?
The birds, the bees, the moon, the sea, Hitler, serial killers, pedos, cancer, birth defects, etc.
It's so obvious there is a God.
And He loves you!
Solid presentation Ironnat. Impressive
-
God exists. Just look around you.
How could all this exist if there was no God?
The birds, the bees, the moon, the sea, Hitler, serial killers, pedos, cancer, birth defects, etc.
It's so obvious there is a God.
And He loves you!
Ahhh yes God created All the Nice Pleasant Bits
All the Nasty Horrible Things is Down to us Humans
And our Bad Choices..... ::)
Of course
🤣😂🤣
-
Ive read your comments for years and years. None of them actually address the issues, they are regurgitated apologist spins. But then you probably know that deep down.
Yep I've learned things from others....I believe we refer to such people as students.
-
Ahhh yes God created All the Nice Pleasant Bits
All the Nasty Horrible Things is Down to us Humans
And our Bad Choices..... ::)
Of course
🤣😂🤣
It's much easier to live without accountability isn't it?
-
It's much easier to live without accountability isn't it?
Yes it is Think we can all agree on that.
As I’ve stated many times before I’m looking for hard irrefutable Proof
A God Exists as There’s a Multitude of purported Gods
No one has Proven or shown conclusive proof - It’s all you have to Believe
/ Have Faith / God works in mysterious ways / Scriptures by unknown writers /
Hand me down tales / Etc Etc
Not one Shred of Hard Factual provable Evidence out of All The Religions,
I’m waiting.........
I respect your mind set so respect Mine - You want to believe Good for you I wish you well
Then do the same to others that don’t believe/ are not convinced.
If court rooms / trials & Medical Drugs Companies Etc operated on the Same Principles
As Religions What Kind of Mess would we all be in.
( Hmmm probably a bigger mess than we’re in Now )
Look forward to you’re reply - At least you are partaking in this thread ( thanks)
Where are the others to offer Facts & Proof ?
-
Yes it is Think we can all agree on that.
As I’ve stated many times before I’m looking for hard irrefutable Proof
A God Exists as There’s a Multitude of purported Gods
No one has Proven or shown conclusive proof - It’s all you have to Believe
/ Have Faith / God works in mysterious ways / Scriptures by unknown writers /
Hand me down tales / Etc Etc
Not one Shred of Hard Factual provable Evidence out of All The Religions,
I’m waiting.........
I respect your mind set so respect Mine - You want to believe Good for you I wish you well
Then do the same to others that don’t believe/ are not convinced.
If court rooms / trials & Medical Drugs Companies Etc operated on the Same Principles
As Religions What Kind of Mess would we all be in.
( Hmmm probably a bigger mess than we’re in Now )
Look forward to you’re reply - At least you are partaking in this thread ( thanks)
Where are the others to offer Facts & Proof ?
So many approach God through a scientific lens which is ironic considering the overwhelming volume of evidence for God that is rarely followed to a conclusion and typically dismissed out of hand....doesn't comport with scientific methods so often espoused.
The simple realization that finally struck me is that people don't need irrefutable proof from other believers because God's truth is already written on their hearts. Everyone knows that God is real.
What I see is the act of suppression of that truth and need for them to break their self deception. That's why I actually don't believe in theists or atheists.....there's really only lovers of God and haters of God because all know God exists.
You're right that no other religion has ever offered definite proof of what they believe. Only one exception in Christianity. We have Jesus Christ and his resurrection. Further believers have within them the Holy Spirit of God.
I note all this to simply say that if you want to know God personally then you have to come to him faithfully (given everyone knows he is real), repent of your sins and believe in Christ's work on the cross. Put another way, read the bible and do what it says.
But why don't most follow this simple path to righteousness? It's much easier to live without accountability and do whatever you want in this life. And because God grants this freedom to engage in sin or engage in righteousness we see rampant, deplorable acts of men in every era of humankind......and then the majority blames God for the evil of men.....zero accountability....it's always someone else's fault and God is a wonderful scapegoat for people.
-
So many approach God through a scientific lens which is ironic considering the overwhelming volume of evidence for God that is rarely followed to a conclusion and typically dismissed out of hand....doesn't comport with scientific methods so often espoused.
The simple realization that finally struck me is that people don't need irrefutable proof from other believers because God's truth is already written on their hearts. Everyone knows that God is real.
What I see is the act of suppression of that truth and need for them to break their self deception. That's why I actually don't believe in theists or atheists.....there's really only lovers of God and haters of God because all know God exists.
You're right that no other religion has ever offered definite proof of what they believe. Only one exception in Christianity. We have Jesus Christ and his resurrection. Further believers have within them the Holy Spirit of God.
I note all this to simply say that if you want to know God personally then you have to come to him faithfully (given everyone knows he is real), repent of your sins and believe in Christ's work on the cross. Put another way, read the bible and do what it says.
But why don't most follow this simple path to righteousness? It's much easier to live without accountability and do whatever you want in this life. And because God grants this freedom to engage in sin or engage in righteousness we see rampant, deplorable acts of men in every era of humankind......and then the majority blames God for the evil of men.....zero accountability....it's always someone else's fault and God is a wonderful scapegoat for people.
Definitely someone who is beyond reason when it comes to discussing the god belief.
-
It's much easier to live without accountability isn't it?
Like Christians live with accountability?... If you read your bible you would know Christians aren't held accountable for their sins, they are covered in Jesus' blood and god sees them as sinless. Don't you remember the mantra your folks spew? "Christians aren't perfect they're just forgiven" So take that accountability argument elsewhere. The entire Christian theology these days is comprised of Christians NOT being held accountable.
-
Like Christians live with accountability?... If you read your bible you would know Christians aren't held accountable for their sins, they are covered in Jesus' blood and god sees them as sinless. Don't you remember the mantra your folks spew? "Christians aren't perfect they're just forgiven" So take that accountability argument elsewhere. The entire Christian theology these days is comprised of Christians NOT being held accountable.
Oh the accountability argument is fully in tact depsite your "mic drop" post LOL.
This is a perfect example of a perverted thought process that does not want to acknowledge accountability for sin...you know it's wrong yet still you switch evil for good and good for evil.
You fully grasp God's message of salvation, but simply spin it into something immoral....it's transparent and wrong. Salvation does not equate to a license to sin. All HAVE sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but only through Jesus Christ are we made whole again....that we are forgiven.
Now, it's good that you bring attention to God's gracious, redemptive, loving work on the cross that's a gift to all that seek his righteousness for their own. Yes believers in Christ are forgiven of their sins yet told to go forward and sin no more....that is the command....to sin no more.
Although, remember it says in Hebrews that if a person continues on in willful sin despite having the knowledge of God's redemptive work that there no longer remains an advocate before the Father and that judgement will come upon those people for their sins.
I no longer walk in willful sin, but I do sin from time to time and my soul is grieved when I do and I cry out in prayer for forgiveness and repent of that sin and ask for deliverance from that which troubles me.
Sanctification is a life long process of transformation and learning through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We are told to perservere to the end as good and faithful servants in Christ.
Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
-
So many approach God through a scientific lens which is ironic considering the overwhelming volume of evidence for God that is rarely followed to a conclusion and typically dismissed out of hand....doesn't comport with scientific methods so often espoused.
The simple realization that finally struck me is that people don't need irrefutable proof from other believers because God's truth is already written on their hearts. Everyone knows that God is real.
What I see is the act of suppression of that truth and need for them to break their self deception. That's why I actually don't believe in theists or atheists.....there's really only lovers of God and haters of God because all know God exists.
You're right that no other religion has ever offered definite proof of what they believe. Only one exception in Christianity. We have Jesus Christ and his resurrection. Further believers have within them the Holy Spirit of God.
I note all this to simply say that if you want to know God personally then you have to come to him faithfully (given everyone knows he is real), repent of your sins and believe in Christ's work on the cross. Put another way, read the bible and do what it says.
But why don't most follow this simple path to righteousness? It's much easier to live without accountability and do whatever you want in this life. And because God grants this freedom to engage in sin or engage in righteousness we see rampant, deplorable acts of men in every era of humankind......and then the majority blames God for the evil of men.....zero accountability....it's always someone else's fault and God is a wonderful scapegoat for people.
Thanks for your reply
I approach the subject of a god or gods within open rational mind - as there are so many different
Religions. No one including yourself has posted anything remotely resembling a Clear Answer
Or Proof of A god/s - Nothing that doesn’t involve suspending the reality we use & live in
Everyday - Why is that ?
There’s Zero Fact or Proof a god/s exists.
If as You Profess We Are All The Sons / Daughters of god Why Doesn’t He Come To Us ?
Not Much of A Father Figure is He.
I Still say there is NO god/s & it’s all fairy tales & a old fashioned means to control people
With fear & rhetoric - Many Many Fear Death and Need Something To Believe/ Cling onto
That there is Something else Beyond Life.. ::)
There isn’t and everyone Knows IT.
-
Thanks for your reply
I approach the subject of a god or gods within open rational mind - as there are so many different
Religions. No one including yourself has posted anything remotely resembling a Clear Answer
Or Proof of A god/s - Nothing that doesn’t involve suspending the reality we use & live in
Everyday - Why is that ?
There’s Zero Fact or Proof a god/s exists.
If as You Profess We Are All The Sons / Daughters of god Why Doesn’t He Come To Us ?
Not Much of A Father Figure is He.
I Still say there is NO god/s & it’s all fairy tales & a old fashioned means to control people
With fear & rhetoric - Many Many Fear Death and Need Something To Believe/ Cling onto
That there is Something else Beyond Life.. ::)
There isn’t and everyone Knows IT.
I believe in God. I'm not afraid. I don't live in fear. Religion doesn't control me. I make my own independent decisions. There are many other people like me.
Can I prove God exists? No. You cannot prove a faith-based belief. Don't confuse a faith-based belief with science.
And as I've said many times on the board, everyone has faith-based beliefs, whether they want to admit it or not.
-
So many approach God through a scientific lens which is ironic considering the overwhelming volume of evidence for God that is rarely followed to a conclusion and typically dismissed out of hand....doesn't comport with scientific methods so often espoused.
The simple realization that finally struck me is that people don't need irrefutable proof from other believers because God's truth is already written on their hearts. Everyone knows that God is real.
What I see is the act of suppression of that truth and need for them to break their self deception. That's why I actually don't believe in theists or atheists.....there's really only lovers of God and haters of God because all know God exists.
You're right that no other religion has ever offered definite proof of what they believe. Only one exception in Christianity. We have Jesus Christ and his resurrection. Further believers have within them the Holy Spirit of God.
I note all this to simply say that if you want to know God personally then you have to come to him faithfully (given everyone knows he is real), repent of your sins and believe in Christ's work on the cross. Put another way, read the bible and do what it says.
But why don't most follow this simple path to righteousness? It's much easier to live without accountability and do whatever you want in this life. And because God grants this freedom to engage in sin or engage in righteousness we see rampant, deplorable acts of men in every era of humankind......and then the majority blames God for the evil of men.....zero accountability....it's always someone else's fault and God is a wonderful scapegoat for people.
So you are saying that every single person on Earth "knows" that your specific god is real?
-
I believe in God. I'm not afraid. I don't live in fear. Religion doesn't control me. I make my own independent decisions. There are many other people like me.
Can I prove God exists? No. You cannot prove a faith-based belief. Don't confuse a faith-based belief with science.
And as I've said many times on the board, everyone has faith-based beliefs, whether they want to admit it or not.
That’s all well and good & I'm pleased for you.
Thank you - You’ve at least Admitted it’s not provable a god/s exists
And it is “Faith & Beliefs” Not Factual.
Like I said it works for you - Great.
Only as you well know many many people do live in Fear / are afraid / and are controlled by Religion
The World over.
-
So you are saying that every single person on Earth "knows" that your specific god is real?
Yes. Everyone knows that God is real. His law is imprinted on each of us and we see his creation and recognize his hand at work.
Now, tribal folks in a distant jungle may not know the name of Jesus, but they know that God exists and they instinctively understand right and wrong, life and death, good and evil, light and dark, etc....
-
Thanks for your reply
I approach the subject of a god or gods within open rational mind - as there are so many different
Religions. No one including yourself has posted anything remotely resembling a Clear Answer
Or Proof of A god/s - Nothing that doesn’t involve suspending the reality we use & live in
Everyday - Why is that ?
There’s Zero Fact or Proof a god/s exists.
If as You Profess We Are All The Sons / Daughters of god Why Doesn’t He Come To Us ?
Not Much of A Father Figure is He.
I Still say there is NO god/s & it’s all fairy tales & a old fashioned means to control people
With fear & rhetoric - Many Many Fear Death and Need Something To Believe/ Cling onto
That there is Something else Beyond Life.. ::)
There isn’t and everyone Knows IT.
I do appreciate your willingness to speak openly and rationally. Certainly we disagree on some things, but you're willing to discuss calmly and reasonably which again I appreciate.
-
I believe in God. I'm not afraid. I don't live in fear. Religion doesn't control me. I make my own independent decisions. There are many other people like me.
Can I prove God exists? No. You cannot prove a faith-based belief. Don't confuse a faith-based belief with science.
And as I've said many times on the board, everyone has faith-based beliefs, whether they want to admit it or not.
Exactly, the demand for scientific evidence or proof for a non-scientific, transcendent, divine God is not how it works.
In short, we must read the bible and do what it says. I don't have questions about the reality of God....I know God is real because he's proven it to me time and time again.
My faith is also grounded on those promises of Christ yet to be fulfilled given what has already been fulfilled in my life and the lives of others.
All we can do is lead by example and share with others the gospel message and reason for the hope within us. Providing definite proofs is not what we as believers must focus on and the reason we need not focus on that is because everyone knows that God exists.
So we can cut to the chase and confront issues of sin and the need for repentance and faith in Christ's work.
-
That’s all well and good & I'm pleased for you.
Thank you - You’ve at least Admitted it’s not provable a god/s exists
And it is “Faith & Beliefs” Not Factual.
Like I said it works for you - Great.
Only as you well know many many people do live in Fear / are afraid / and are controlled by Religion
The World over.
What religion are you talking about specifically? I know Christians far and wide who don't fall in the fear/afraid/control category.
-
What religion are you talking about specifically? I know Christians far and wide who don't fall in the fear/afraid/control category.
I’m not talking about any religion specifically.
As you well know there are many many ( probably millions ) around the world
Who are afraid/ fearfull / & controlled by what there Religion demands / Tells them.
I don’t see how you can be religious & not be controlled by your religion to a greater or lesser extent
To conform to what your religion says is being controlled. That maybe a good thing or a bad thing.
-
I do appreciate your willingness to speak openly and rationally. Certainly we disagree on some things, but you're willing to discuss calmly and reasonably which again I appreciate.
Thank you & I'm equally pleased you are taking part / responding in a civil manner
That makes such a change on Getbig.
I’m looking for evidence & Proof of a god / gods and I don’t see any or found any,
I’ve tried previously in times of great pain & distress to speak / seek / feel anything
And Nothing - Even after the loss of very very dear close family members.
When I see & Hear all the Horrible acts done by “Men of God” of all religions
On innocent young children I Just Cannot Accept That If There Is God’s they
Would allow that to Happen - No Almighty / All Powerful Entity Could Possible Allow That
And Do Nothing - Just let it Happen!!
And then those perpetrators can absolve themselves by repenting Etc and all is Forgiven
I don’t think so. That makes no sense either.
-
Yes. Everyone knows that God is real. His law is imprinted on each of us and we see his creation and recognize his hand at work.
Now, tribal folks in a distant jungle may not know the name of Jesus, but they know that God exists and they instinctively understand right and wrong, life and death, good and evil, light and dark, etc....
If they instinctively know right from wrong, would they know slavery is right, or wrong?
-
If they instinctively know right from wrong, would they know slavery is right, or wrong?
I think the same way a 2-yr old child that first makes a mess and immediately tries to disguise it from Mom and Dad knows what they did was wrong even without being told it was.
Still the term "slavery" is loosely thrown around as it relates to scripture and often with zero context. It's typically associated with the antebellum South or ancient Egypt in which men, women and children were worked to death. Awful, immoral act that God does not endorse.
What of the other type of slavery in bondservitude? The system used by God's chosen people to work off their debts with dignity and respect. This system stood in stark contrast to the surrounding pagan nations who engaged in wicked enslavement practices.
Further, what of Christians that are self-professed slaves of Jesus Christ? Those that forgo of their own will and adopt the will of Christ for themselves.
People that behave wickedly suppress God's truth or pervert his truth via their subjectivity in favor of their selfish, wicked desires. They know they are wrong as much as the Israelites knew they were right in Christ.
-
Thank you & I'm equally pleased you are taking part / responding in a civil manner
That makes such a change on Getbig.
I’m looking for evidence & Proof of a god / gods and I don’t see any or found any,
I’ve tried previously in times of great pain & distress to speak / seek / feel anything
And Nothing - Even after the loss of very very dear close family members.
When I see & Hear all the Horrible acts done by “Men of God” of all religions
On innocent young children I Just Cannot Accept That If There Is God’s they
Would allow that to Happen - No Almighty / All Powerful Entity Could Possible Allow That
And Do Nothing - Just let it Happen!!
And then those perpetrators can absolve themselves by repenting Etc and all is Forgiven
I don’t think so. That makes no sense either.
But God has done something. He made you and me as stewards or governors over his creation to help others in need from those that willfully forsake God. We are empowered to do what is right and to bring the justice of God to those that need it most.
The US alone could permanently eradicate world hunger and poverty in a month if they chose to do so with the vast resources at their disposal but don't because we're so embroiled in selfish political maneuvers that we forsake the abundant blessings of God that have been provided for us that could and should be allocated to others globally.
-
But God has done something. He made you and me as stewards or governors over his creation to help others in need from those that willfully forsake God. We are empowered to do what is right and to bring the justice of God to those that need it most.
The US alone could permanently eradicate world hunger and poverty in a month if they chose to do so with the vast resources at their disposal but don't because we're so embroiled in selfish political maneuvers that we forsake the abundant blessings of God that have been provided for us that could and should be allocated to others globally.
Totally Disagree he hasn’t Done anything - My Parents made Me And we’re All a product of Nature
& Beyond That Space & The Universe
MOS you posted my Quote only avoid giving any type of Answers
To my Questions - Why ?
-
Totally Disagree he hasn’t Done anything - My Parents made Me And we’re All a product of Nature
& Beyond That Space & The Universe
MOS you posted my Quote only avoid giving any type of Answers
To my Questions - Why ?
I'm sorry but I don't follow what you're asking? What have I avoided? The only question I saw was what has God done and I answered that. Sorry I don't give many "wall of text" exhaustive responses on GB anymore. I keep answers as brief as possible and copy and paste from my existing responses when possible.
I'm not at all scared of any question and that's not boasting either. If I've missed something you would like me to answer then let me know. From your line of thought the classic "problem of evil" or "if God is all powerful why does he allow...." are all possible questions which I've answered repeatedly on these boards in an exhaustive manner and have only gotten essentially what you responded with in your last post of this thread.
Respectfully, why should I give more? It's clear to me your mind is made up despite being willing to discuss calmly. Although once I know with reasonable certainty that someone's mind is made up on answers to questions before the question is posed I completely disengage now. Unfortunately, I don't believe I can provide you any answer that you'll accept as cogent or valid. I don't mean to be insulting either I've just done this dance for years and years and know the outcome so I just stop.
The questions get repeatedly asked in different forms, but my answers will always be the same and the answer is rejected without any further investigation via the person posing the question.
-
I'm sorry but I don't follow what you're asking? What have I avoided? The only question I saw was what has God done and I answered that. Sorry I don't give many "wall of text" exhaustive responses on GB anymore. I keep answers as brief as possible and copy and paste from my existing responses when possible.
I'm not at all scared of any question and that's not boasting either. If I've missed something you would like me to answer then let me know. From your line of thought the classic "problem of evil" or "if God is all powerful why does he allow...." are all possible questions which I've answered repeatedly on these boards in an exhaustive manner and have only gotten essentially what you responded with in your last post of this thread.
Respectfully, why should I give more? It's clear to me your mind is made up despite being willing to discuss calmly. Although once I know with reasonable certainty that someone's mind is made up on answers to questions before the question is posed I completely disengage now. Unfortunately, I don't believe I can provide you any answer that you'll accept as cogent or valid. I don't mean to be insulting either I've just done this dance for years and years and know the outcome so I just stop.
The questions get repeatedly asked in different forms, but my answers will always be the same and the answer is rejected without any further investigation via the person posing the question.
Fair enough.
I’ll take that as My answers cannot be Answered in a Reasonable/ Factual Manner Then
And That to Answer Them for me in a satisfactory manner I’d Have to Suspend Reality
Etc and Be Left With Fairy Tales & God works in mysterious ways.
The problem I have with that type of Answer is That These Monstrous Acts are being done
By Men / Women of God in His Houses of Worship are Real & Factual And Proven
There is No Need to Suspend reality or for fairy tales - It’s Hard Horrible Fact.
Yet when trying to answer why this is allowed in the Name of God it cannot be done
In a Factual manner.
Sorry to Break it To You - There Is No God/s - Nada / Nothing No Heaven or Hell
We here for a brief while Then We Gone. End OF.
-
I’m not talking about any religion specifically.
As you well know there are many many ( probably millions ) around the world
Who are afraid/ fearfull / & controlled by what there Religion demands / Tells them.
I don’t see how you can be religious & not be controlled by your religion to a greater or lesser extent
To conform to what your religion says is being controlled. That maybe a good thing or a bad thing.
What you are saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Being a Christian is all about choice. You can choose to live a certain lifestyle. You can choose to attend church or not, give an offering or not, etc.
A lot of people are simply grounded, not controlled, by their faith.
-
What you are saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Being a Christian is all about choice. You can choose to live a certain lifestyle. You can choose to attend church or not, give an offering or not, etc.
A lot of people are simply grounded, not controlled, by their faith.
I agree. My perception of the religion of Christianity is there are some whackos, those who attend churches where poisonous snakes are handled, or parents rely on prayer instead of medical attention for their children, but for the majority of U.S. Christians, and this is my observation growing up in the bible belt, they are Christian in name only. They may attend church but usually it's for the social gathering. They lie and cheat at the same frequency as non Christians and spend next to no time actually studying the bible or making a real attempt to follow Jesus' teachings. So yes, there is a small percentage that are controlled by their beliefs, but the majority use Christianity as an insurance policy just in case it's true, or the grew up in the religious culture and are comfortable playing the role.
-
I agree. My perception of the religion of Christianity is there are some whackos, those who attend churches where poisonous snakes are handled, or parents rely on prayer instead of medical attention for their children, but for the majority of U.S. Christians, and this is my observation growing up in the bible belt, they are Christian in name only. They may attend church but usually it's for the social gathering. They lie and cheat at the same frequency as non Christians and spend next to no time actually studying the bible or making a real attempt to follow Jesus' teachings. So yes, there is a small percentage that are controlled by their beliefs, but the majority use Christianity as an insurance policy just in case it's true, or the grew up in the religious culture and are comfortable playing the role.
That's your experience, but then again you have hardly ever been approached by people trying to hand you religious literature, so I suspect your experience is pretty limited.
Someone who "lies and cheats" isn't necessarily a Christian in name only. We are all sinners. No one is perfect. You don't become some paragon of virtue walking around with a halo when you become a Christian.
Your insurance policy comments are pretty funny. For someone who likes to quote the Bible and talk about Christians a lot, you really know very little about both.
-
What you are saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Being a Christian is all about choice. You can choose to live a certain lifestyle. You can choose to attend church or not, give an offering or not, etc.
A lot of people are simply grounded, not controlled, by their faith.
As I stated I wasn’t picking on any one religion it was a general statement regarding all religions.
Well from what you’ve stated about Christianity - unknowingly I must be a Christian
I choose my lifestyle & not to go to church & Not Believe in God’s
I’m very well Grounded .
-
That's your experience, but then again you have hardly ever been approached by people trying to hand you religious literature, so I suspect your experience is pretty limited.
Someone who "lies and cheats" isn't necessarily a Christian in name only. We are all sinners. No one is perfect. You don't become some paragon of virtue walking around with a halo when you become a Christian.
Your insurance policy comments are pretty funny. For someone who likes to quote the Bible and talk about Christians a lot, you really know very little about both.
Ouch.. your stinging comment about my lack of biblical knowledge, hurts... Thats something along the lines of what you were expecting? I can only hope to one day obtain your vast knowledge of the bible. :o
And yes, it is my experience, thats why I used the words "perception" and "observation". Good catch! Now, can you try and remain civil until at least the 4th page?
-
As I stated I wasn’t picking on any one religion it was a general statement regarding all religions.
Well from what you’ve stated about Christianity - unknowingly I must be a Christian
I choose my lifestyle & not to go to church & Not Believe in God’s
I’m very well Grounded .
Welcome to the club. :)
-
Ouch.. your stinging comment about my lack of biblical knowledge, hurts... Thats something along the lines of what you were expecting? I can only hope to one day obtain your vast knowledge of the bible. :o
And yes, it is my experience, thats why I used the words "perception" and "observation". Good catch! Now, can you try and remain civil until at least the 4th page?
You are protesting too much. There was nothing uncivil about my comments. Just stating my observation and correcting your ridiculous characterizations of millions of people.
I've said this before many times, but I find it interesting and amusing that atheists spend so much time reading portions of the Bible and obsessing over something they don't believe exists. You folks spend an inordinate amount of time trying to convert people.
-
You are protesting too much. There was nothing uncivil about my comments. Just stating my observation and correcting your ridiculous characterizations of millions of people.
I've said this before many times, but I find it interesting and amusing that atheists spend so much time reading portions of the Bible and obsessing over something they don't believe exists. You folks spend an inordinate amount of time trying to convert people.
I've probably said this a time or two, I've read the bible, cover to cover. Something most Christians who "believe" that it's the word of their god don't bother to do.. which supports my theory
-
I've probably said this a time or two, I've read the bible, cover to cover. Something most Christians who "believe" that it's the word of their god don't bother to do.. which supports my theory
You have read the Bible cover to cover and still understand very little. Sad.
How do you know what most Christians do?
-
I’ve never read any of the religious fictional story books.
And I don’t intend to either.
All these far off ancient wonders & miraculous things That happened long before
Cameras & videos - One or 2 happening now in this day & age would be very positive
Proof - Ahhh god/s all work in mysterious ways ::) ::)
Yes just like uri gellar does - when put to the test he could do Fuck all
Yet Millions Believed Him. ::)
-
I’ve never read any of the religious fictional story books.
And I don’t intend to either.
All these far off ancient wonders & miraculous things That happened long before
Cameras & videos - One or 2 happening now in this day & age would be very positive
Proof - Ahhh god/s all work in mysterious ways ::) ::)
Yes just like uri gellar does - when put to the test he could do Fuck all
Yet Millions Believed Him. ::)
Now that is consistent with I'd expect from an atheist, and actually makes sense. It's the Bible-quoting atheists who are a little odd.
-
I’ve never read any of the religious fictional story books.
And I don’t intend to either.
All these far off ancient wonders & miraculous things That happened long before
Cameras & videos - One or 2 happening now in this day & age would be very positive
Proof - Ahhh god/s all work in mysterious ways ::) ::)
Yes just like uri gellar does - when put to the test he could do Fuck all
Yet Millions Believed Him. ::)
James Randi exposed him back in 1973, and kept exposing him after that, but still gullible fools believed Geller... Imagine how many swindlers and charlatans like him through the ages.
7:21 "I don't feel strong".
-
James Randi exposed him back in 1973, and kept exposing him after that, but still gullible fools believed Geller... Imagine how many swindlers and charlatans like him through the ages.
7:21 "I don't feel strong".
Exactly- It Hilarious watching that.
He didn’t feel strong & cant just turn it on if not feeling it. !!!
Yet he always felt strong & could perform his tricks in front of
A paying audience he never felt pressured Then ::)
-
Fair enough.
I’ll take that as My answers cannot be Answered in a Reasonable/ Factual Manner Then
And That to Answer Them for me in a satisfactory manner I’d Have to Suspend Reality
Etc and Be Left With Fairy Tales & God works in mysterious ways.
The problem I have with that type of Answer is That These Monstrous Acts are being done
By Men / Women of God in His Houses of Worship are Real & Factual And Proven
There is No Need to Suspend reality or for fairy tales - It’s Hard Horrible Fact.
Yet when trying to answer why this is allowed in the Name of God it cannot be done
In a Factual manner.
Sorry to Break it To You - There Is No God/s - Nada / Nothing No Heaven or Hell
We here for a brief while Then We Gone. End OF.
I do answer questions, my answers just aren't liked :)
Doesn't negate them in anyway though.
You are correct people on earth engage in sin on a daily basis. Nonbelievers, believers, etc.....it's unfortunate, but God allows people to engage in sin or seek his will for righteous living. Why is that God's fault if someone chooses to sin? He doesn't force or approve of that behavior, but allows the potential for someone to engage in it. That simple really. Some people don't want anything to with God and want to live however they want.
Many people love pornography and illegal drugs. God stands completely opposed to pornography and illegal drugs. You want nothing to do with God and I don't know your stance on pornography or illegal drugs, but I suspect you'd like the option to indulge if you so choose to, correct?
God affords you that ability in this life to live however you want. Certainly there may be consequences via human courts for some choices, but God doesn't stop you or make you do anything. When you're provided with every potential choice your decision making to accept or reject God is the most pure, most honest it can be. Take away choice and force people to behave in certain manner or limit the scope of their choosing and you introduce persuasion into the decision making that doesn't favor the one making the choice. God gives you every ability to choose anything for you.
I know you say God isn't real and all that, but I can easily say God is real...solves nothing. I have sought God on his terms according to his word and know completely of his reality because I suspended the perspective of the world and chose to know God and I do. He has revealed himself to me.
Why don't you do the same as a man searching for truth?
-
I’ve never read any of the religious fictional story books.
And I don’t intend to either.
All these far off ancient wonders & miraculous things That happened long before
Cameras & videos - One or 2 happening now in this day & age would be very positive
Proof - Ahhh god/s all work in mysterious ways ::) ::)
Yes just like uri gellar does - when put to the test he could do Fuck all
Yet Millions Believed Him. ::)
So you self admit no study of the bible yet you know with certainty it's false? I can't imagine that's how you live the rest of your life.
You have no personal experience of God and no direct knowledge of his word. You have just a cursory understanding yet that's sufficient for you to dismiss it completely?
You have someone like myself sharing with you God's reality, willing to die for God's will and giving you every tool to know him personally and you reject that testimony and all other evidence without any further investigation.
That's odd to me considering most nonbelievers are professed men and women of science that follow evidence to a conclusion.
-
Quote - Man of Steel
I do answer questions, my answers just aren't liked :)
Doesn't negate them in anyway though.
You are correct people on earth engage in sin on a daily basis. Nonbelievers, believers, etc.....it's unfortunate, but God allows people to engage in sin or seek his will for righteous living. Why is that God's fault if someone chooses to sin? He doesn't force or approve of that behavior, but allows the potential for someone to engage in it. That simple really. Some people don't want anything to with God and want to live however they want.
Reply.
1, I keep hearing god/s are all Powerful & Omnipresent- Yet god/s do nothing to stop the abuse by priests / nuns etc on innocent children - No I don’t want any thing to do With that sort of a god/s - All that power & present everywhere all the time & Watches Yet does FA to Help.
Many people love pornography and illegal drugs. God stands completely opposed to pornography and illegal drugs. You want nothing to do with God and I don't know your stance on pornography or illegal drugs, but I suspect you'd like the option to indulge if you so choose to, correct?
Reply.
2, And Exactly How do you Know what Drugs god/s Against ? Where you get that information from ?
Same For Pornography
God affords you that ability in this life to live however you want. Certainly there may be consequences via human courts for some choices, but God doesn't stop you or make you do anything. When you're provided with every potential choice your decision making to accept or reject God is the most pure, most honest it can be. Take away choice and force people to behave in certain manner or limit the scope of their choosing and you introduce persuasion into the decision making that doesn't favor the one making the choice. God gives you every ability to choose anything for you.
Reply.
3, No god/s doesn’t I’d like to have been a multi billionaire- That’s No Happened.
And He’s given me the choice not to believe in god/s & I don’t as I don’t Believe in Fairy’s at the end of my garden.
I know you say God isn't real and all that, but I can easily say God is real...solves nothing. I have sought God on his terms according to his word and know completely of his reality because I suspended the perspective of the world and chose to know God and I do. He has revealed himself to me.
Reply.
4, Good For You - The Difference is I don’t wish / think you’ll go to A Hell as You Do Me as A Non Believer
Why would you Think / Believe That - I don’t Think or Wish you Heaven or Hell - I just wish you Good Thoughts & Things.
Why don't you do the same as a man searching for truth?
Reply.
5, Like Virtually Everyone else I’ve had some Bad & Hard Times where I’ve searched
For a god/s To Help & guide me & - Nothing / Zero
-
So you self admit no study of the bible yet you know with certainty it's false? I can't imagine that's how you live the rest of your life.
You have no personal experience of God and no direct knowledge of his word. You have just a cursory understanding yet that's sufficient for you to dismiss it completely?
You have someone like myself sharing with you God's reality, willing to die for God's will and giving you every tool to know him personally and you reject that testimony and all other evidence without any further investigation.
That's odd to me considering most nonbelievers are professed men and women of science that follow evidence to a conclusion.
I haven’t studied the Bible / Koran / or any other Religious Books / Word of god/s as There’s
So many of them all with tales of wonderment/ Miracles Etc
If The Bible is Truth and everything in it Facts - The Same kind of Claims are Made for all the other
Religious Books - That’s then Getting into the realms of Stupidity- All these events happened
Only Not One Happens Nowadays So It Can Be Recorded For All To See & Believe.
Only happened Millennia ago. Yeah Right.
No I haven’t studied all the religious books - Have you studied them all ?
I’ve read enough & heard enough & certainly lived enough to make a Decision god/s Don’t exist.
No I have no personal experience with any god - You say you Have ? How ?
Other than a Bible witch one/version as There’s many different ones around
What other tools have you given me.?
-
Just because someone can't prove something exists doesn't mean it doesn't
EX:
Before 1666 nobody knew light was made up of various colors/waves so using that logic before prisms were invented microwaves and ultraviolet light didn't exist?
What if humans simply haven't perfected their ability to see and feel God with 100% certainty yet and we are living in 1665 in terms of our ability to see various forms of energy that we previously thought could not possibly exist?
-
Just because someone can't prove something exists doesn't mean it doesn't
EX:
Before 1666 nobody knew light was made up of various colors/waves so using that logic before prisms were invested microwaves and ultraviolet light didn't exist?
What if humans simply haven't perfected their ability to see and feel God with 100% certainty yet and we are living in 1665 in terms of our ability to see various forms of energy that we previously thought could not possibly exist?
Very good points.
Only some claim to have “seen/ felt / Been in contact” with god/s on a “spiritual”
Or personal level + Some claim god/ Jesus was on earth a couple of thousand years ago.
Maybe we do need some kind of “prism” for the masses to see the or these god/s
-
Just because someone can't prove something exists doesn't mean it doesn't
EX:
Before 1666 nobody knew light was made up of various colors/waves so using that logic before prisms were invented microwaves and ultraviolet light didn't exist?
What if humans simply haven't perfected their ability to see and feel God with 100% certainty yet and we are living in 1665 in terms of our ability to see various forms of energy that we previously thought could not possibly exist?
philosophically this could apply to a supernatural being. However I don't think it would apply to the biblical god
-
Quote - Man of Steel
I do answer questions, my answers just aren't liked :)
Doesn't negate them in anyway though.
You are correct people on earth engage in sin on a daily basis. Nonbelievers, believers, etc.....it's unfortunate, but God allows people to engage in sin or seek his will for righteous living. Why is that God's fault if someone chooses to sin? He doesn't force or approve of that behavior, but allows the potential for someone to engage in it. That simple really. Some people don't want anything to with God and want to live however they want.
Reply.
1, I keep hearing god/s are all Powerful & Omnipresent- Yet god/s do nothing to stop the abuse by priests / nuns etc on innocent children - No I don’t want any thing to do With that sort of a god/s - All that power & present everywhere all the time & Watches Yet does FA to Help.
Many people love pornography and illegal drugs. God stands completely opposed to pornography and illegal drugs. You want nothing to do with God and I don't know your stance on pornography or illegal drugs, but I suspect you'd like the option to indulge if you so choose to, correct?
Reply.
2, And Exactly How do you Know what Drugs god/s Against ? Where you get that information from ?
Same For Pornography
God affords you that ability in this life to live however you want. Certainly there may be consequences via human courts for some choices, but God doesn't stop you or make you do anything. When you're provided with every potential choice your decision making to accept or reject God is the most pure, most honest it can be. Take away choice and force people to behave in certain manner or limit the scope of their choosing and you introduce persuasion into the decision making that doesn't favor the one making the choice. God gives you every ability to choose anything for you.
Reply.
3, No god/s doesn’t I’d like to have been a multi billionaire- That’s No Happened.
And He’s given me the choice not to believe in god/s & I don’t as I don’t Believe in Fairy’s at the end of my garden.
I know you say God isn't real and all that, but I can easily say God is real...solves nothing. I have sought God on his terms according to his word and know completely of his reality because I suspended the perspective of the world and chose to know God and I do. He has revealed himself to me.
Reply.
4, Good For You - The Difference is I don’t wish / think you’ll go to A Hell as You Do Me as A Non Believer
Why would you Think / Believe That - I don’t Think or Wish you Heaven or Hell - I just wish you Good Thoughts & Things.
Why don't you do the same as a man searching for truth?
Reply.
5, Like Virtually Everyone else I’ve had some Bad & Hard Times where I’ve searched
For a god/s To Help & guide me & - Nothing / Zero
1.) First things first, Catholics aren't Christians....they are Roman Catholics and I realize how that may offend some RCs although that isn't my intention. Christians that defied the RC church rose up in protest against what the RC church had evolved into. My answer above about sin applies to all people including nuns and priests. If nuns and priests hurt children/people they aren't believers in Christ....they are nominal believers that in reality stand opposed to him. You're either aligned completely with Christ or you are not. There is no gray area. These folks can become genuine believers, but they have to repent and be made new.
2.) Within the book of Galatians Paul notes the sin of sorcery which is rooted in the koine greek term pharmakeia (english derivation is "pharmacy"). This isn't indicating that medicines in general are bad. The context is about sorcery and witchcraft and avoiding making or partaking in elicit drugs (potions) for purposes of engaging in witchcraft, the occult or abusing drugs in general for non-medical purposes and allowing it consume a person creating addictions that oppose God's will for our lives.
3.) You can still choose to be a billionaire...that choice is 100% in tact. I should add that the prayer of a Christian to God is not like a person rubbing a magic lamp and a genie granting wishes. In fact, scripture states that God doesn't recognize the prayers of the unrepentant sinner. It also says in the book of James that "You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures." I'm not suggesting you wouldn't do good things with a billion bucks, but thought I would note this regardless.
4.) I don't wish hell upon anyone. If I wished for folks to exist eternally in hell I wouldn't ever post on these boards or share my faith. That would be the most unloving thing I could do. Now, hell is the absence of God. Every pleasure we enjoy in this life emanates from the divine nature of God. People don't understand that each breathe they take, each sip of coffee they enjoy, each moment of hope they feel, each lesson they learn, each instance of laughter they share with a friend, each good meal enjoyed is all attributed to the nature and character of God. In this life we merely receive a taste of God's goodness, but sin has contaminated this world in evil and Jesus Christ is the solution...he's the cure for our plague of sin. When people go to their graves in opposition of God he honors that choice in eternity and sends those folks to exist in a place in which all of his attributes are removed....what is left is the realization of wrongdoing, an eternal reminder of choices made despite pleading by believers such as myself not to. Hell is existence without God. As C.S. Lewis so eloquently put in, "There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.' "
5.) I'm sorry you've gone through hard times or that the church experience you've had has been poor. There are a lot of nominal believers in the world that pervert the message of Christ and live a life completely at odds with the righteousness they profess. I can only encourage you not to give up on God or yourself for that matter. You and every member of these boards are precious to God. He desires that you seek his righteousness for your own.
-
I haven’t studied the Bible / Koran / or any other Religious Books / Word of god/s as There’s
So many of them all with tales of wonderment/ Miracles Etc
If The Bible is Truth and everything in it Facts - The Same kind of Claims are Made for all the other
Religious Books - That’s then Getting into the realms of Stupidity- All these events happened
Only Not One Happens Nowadays So It Can Be Recorded For All To See & Believe.
Only happened Millennia ago. Yeah Right.
No I haven’t studied all the religious books - Have you studied them all ?
I’ve read enough & heard enough & certainly lived enough to make a Decision god/s Don’t exist.
No I have no personal experience with any god - You say you Have ? How ?
Other than a Bible witch one/version as There’s many different ones around
What other tools have you given me.?
Yes the same kinds of claims are made for every world religion. Christianity is the only exception because of Jesus Christ, his resurrection, the Holy Spirit and that fact that Christianity is not a works-based faith.
Every other system of belief requires works in order to achieve "god points", yet you won't find folks within those faith systems that have 100% assurance that their eternity is secure....they exist in perpetual doubt performing work after work with no real understanding if what they are doing is enough.
Faith in Jesus Christ is absolute and certain and void of works....you can't earn salvation in Christ.
When it comes to biblical translations we're now stepping into the field of textual criticism which we can discuss if you want.
I think many confuse the terms transmission of information and translation of information. Yes there are many different languages in which the original texts in hebrew and koine greek have been translated and despite some differences in wording the core message of the translation is consistent and in tact....Jesus Christ is our only way to be saved.
I can speak more about this if you'd like, but it's a different topic altogether.
-
It's funny....I start posting a bit more and suddenly ALL board traffic stops.
Oh well guess I'm done with these boards again. ;D
Well.....bye.
-
It's funny....I start posting a bit more and suddenly ALL board traffic stops.
Oh well guess I'm done with these boards again. ;D
Well.....bye.
MOS as much as I may disagree & Question What you have to say
I’m very appreciative that you take the time to reply in a decent
Civil & honest Manner.
I’d like to think you will stay & Post more often
We need all the decent posters to stay.
I’m in a rush so will look through your longer previous post and reply
Sometime over the weekend.
-
Yes the same kinds of claims are made for every world religion. Christianity is the only exception because of Jesus Christ, his resurrection, the Holy Spirit and that fact that Christianity is not a works-based faith.
Every other system of belief requires works in order to achieve "god points", yet you won't find folks within those faith systems that have 100% assurance that their eternity is secure....they exist in perpetual doubt performing work after work with no real understanding if what they are doing is enough. You are simply arguing that your religions system is "better" without providing any evidence of it. I would argue a system that rewards good behavior and deeds beats one that simply hands it to you for saying your believe it
Faith in Jesus Christ is absolute and certain and void of works....you can't earn salvation in Christ. Except that James says faith without works is dead. So you do need good works
When it comes to biblical translations we're now stepping into the field of textual criticism which we can discuss if you want.
I think many confuse the terms transmission of information and translation of information. Yes there are many different languages in which the original texts in hebrew and koine greek have been translated and despite some differences in wording the core message of the translation is consistent and in tact....Jesus Christ is our only way to be saved. Until you point out KJV says God created evil, or condoned slavery, or demanded that rape victims marry their rapists, and then Christians fall over themselves to say the translations are in error
I can speak more about this if you'd like, but it's a different topic altogether.
-
My second sentence of that post is all the proof any person on earth will ever need.
You're confusing being saved by grace through faith with demonstrations of Christ like behavior when believers are sanctified. You interpret James with a cursory understanding.
Book of Amos argument on "God created evil" I've covered a dozen times. In fact:
loco, the KJV of the bible is the atheist's playground. As you indicated, modern translations clarify the dated language used without losing the context and meaning of scripture. Modern translations better define the use of evil as calamity and disaster. References to the creation of evil by God such as in the book of Amos is translated as calamity or destruction (as an example). I've done this same dance with Agnostic before.
You know what? I'm not gonna search out my post history for this nonsense. I've covered your rape, slavery, works and created evil "go to" arguments more times than I have fingers and toes to count.
Dude don't spend eternity gnashing your teeth over the decisions you made in this life. Man I don't want that for you but you heart is so hardened you refuse to accept definite, accurate, honest, loving corrections to your errored understanding of God and his word. You love your arguments more than the truth of their error and you won't budge from that place of pride. I believe you've bought the lie because you've repeated it so many times it's engrained now.
Sadly I can't do anything else for you or others in your predicament. I can't soften hearts or change minds or draw people to Christ in salvation.
-
MOS as much as I may disagree & Question What you have to say
I’m very appreciative that you take the time to reply in a decent
Civil & honest Manner.
I’d like to think you will stay & Post more often
We need all the decent posters to stay.
I’m in a rush so will look through your longer previous post and reply
Sometime over the weekend.
People get busy and I understand that.
Man respond when you free up. Take care of you and yours first.
All good!
-
Test post....yeah Agnostic I'm still able to post.
You weren't viewing as a guest and attempted to post and it prevented you maybe?
I've done that before and then realized I wasn't logged in.
-
Thanks Dos!
-
Thread has been re opened I see
Why or what was the matter with it
I didn’t get a reply from the PM I sent MOS.
-
Thread has been re opened I see
Why or what was the matter with it
I didn’t get a reply from the PM I sent MOS.
Probably just an accident
-
Probably just an accident
Most likely.
-
Thread has been re opened I see
Why or what was the matter with it
I didn’t get a reply from the PM I sent MOS.
Sorry man I missed it. agnostic is correct, just an accident.
Fortunately DE got it figured out.
-
2.) Within the book of Galatians Paul notes the sin of sorcery which is rooted in the koine greek term pharmakeia (english derivation is "pharmacy"). This isn't indicating that medicines in general are bad. The context is about sorcery and witchcraft and avoiding making or partaking in elicit drugs (potions) for purposes of engaging in witchcraft, the occult or abusing drugs in general for non-medical purposes and allowing it consume a person creating addictions that oppose God's will for our lives.
I agree with the last part but disagree with the first. Or perhaps you've missed the numerous references to "manna from heaven" which clearly points to psilocybe mushroom consumption...
------------------------------------Manna From Heaven
by
Steve Kubby
polish transl. http://www.psilosophy.info/bynfnbdzbebxarbbceapbhfh
original report: http://deoxy.org/manna.htm
From Psychedelic Illuminations Volume 1, Issue VII
Illustration by Gustave Doré
There are a great many people who would never consider the use of visionary plants to be a spiritual experience. These people believe that spiritual experiences must come directly from God and that the use of visionary plants goes against the teachings of the Bible. Contrary to this notion, the Bible never explicitly prohibits the use of visionary plants or potions. What you will find however, is many curious references to a spiritual food sent down from heaven by God, called manna.
The Bible never tells us exactly what manna was and where it came from, but there are many Old Testament passages which describe its physical qualities and conditions associated with its appearance. The Bible's first reference to manna is in the Book of Exodus as the children of Israel are fleeing from Egypt and following Moses into the wilderness. After six weeks of wandering, they began complaining to Moses that they are tired and hungry. What happens next is truly extraordinary:
Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law or no (16:4).
And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground (16:14). And when the children of Israel saw if, they said one to another It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat.
When I read this passage, I was struck by the fact that manna easily fits the description of psilocybe mushrooms. For one thing magic mushrooms are small and round, and since they sprout so rapidly they would seem to appear overnight, as if out of the sky. Also, anyone harvesting them would immediately notice that they turn blue where torn and had no roots, giving more reason to believe that the mushrooms were of celestial origin. Note that manna does not just fall from heaven, but instead it is described as coming with the frost and dew, during the wet seasons. These are the precise weather conditions for mushrooms to thrive. And finally, manna is described as a bread.
Although translations have obscured the intent of this passage, it seems to be a description of how to find and identify manna and distinguish it from other non-psychoactive (or possibly lethal) mushrooms. Look for the small round things which are like bread, come with the rain, and seem to have heavenly (bluish) coloring. Psilocybe mushrooms also sprout in tiny pin heads which branch out in all directions and bear a resemblance to hoar frost.
It is also interesting to note that Moses tells the children of Israel that manna comes directly from Heaven to test them on whether or not they will walk in God's law. Here is evidence that manna was endowed with unusual spiritual powers, like those of magic mushrooms. However, manna does not automatically confer spiritual power. Instead, it serves as a test. Magic mushrooms would provide visionary experiences that would certainly test all who ingested them. Moses also said that the manna is literally the "bread of the lord" which is remarkably similar to the literal Aztec name for psilocybe mushrooms, "flesh of the gods."
But how and why did the manna suddenly appear? Again referring to the Bible, it is clear that the children of Israel had journeyed to a land where there was dew in the morning. As a large, nomadic tribe, the Israelites brought a lot of cattle and sheep together in the area. That meant a great deal of manure. The change of climate from the arid lands of Egypt to the dewy climate of the wilderness created ideal conditions for the propagation and spread of psilocybe mushrooms in livestock dung.
In Exodus 12:19-20, we find more references to manna.
Anyone familiar with wild mushrooms knows that they go bad very quickly and shrivel up under the heat of the sun, exactly like manna.
It seems curious that Moses recognized the manna instantly when the children of Israel showed it to him. He knew that the manna would spoil if it was not picked and eaten in the morning. But how did Moses know about manna? Perhaps Moses knew about manna because he had already encountered the mushroom at the time he saw the burning bush. Referring to an earlier period of his life, we find that Moses:
...kept a flock of Jethro, his father in-law the priest of Midiam: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb (3:1). And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed (3:2).
Had Moses eaten the sacred mushroom while camped at the mountain? Here again we can only speculate that manure from his flock and a change in climate had created the proper environment for the mushrooms to fruit. Perhaps Moses ingested the mushrooms purely by accident, or perhaps his father in law, who we know was also a priest, had introduced Moses to the mushroom. Archaeological evidence of psychedelic mushroom use in Biblical times is well documented by Terence McKenna, so it is reasonable to conclude that Moses could have had some experience with visionary mushrooms.1
Later, in Numbers 11:6-9, manna is again described in terms that are remarkably similar to magic mushrooms:
But now our soul is dried away: there is nothing at all, beside this manna, before our eyes. And the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof as the colour of bdelliaum. And the people went about and gathered it, and ground it in mills, or beat it in a mortar and baked it in pans: and made cakes of it: and the taste of it was as the taste of fresh oil. And when the dew fell upon the camp in the night, the manna fell upon it.
Here we find manna described as before our eyes, having a neutral taste like fresh oil, and once again, the Bible mentions that manna appearing in the morning when the dew fell. The Old Testament even tells us what manna looks like, the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof. When psilocybe mushrooms are dried, their range of colors is virtually identical to dried coriander seed. In both cases, with mushrooms and coriander seeds, we see great similarities in the texture, color, tones, contrasts and general visual appearance. The Children of Israel must have given great thought about how to transmit the appearance of manna so as to aid future generations who might encounter it. However, mushrooms were a mystery to the Hebrews and they were unable to predict where manna could be found. Little did they realize that the manure from their cattle was providing a means for the mushroom to find its way into their mountain campsites.
Notice that the manna was ground in mills or beat it in a mortar. That is odd because earlier we are told that manna was quite delicate and, then the sun wax hot, it melted. However, if manna was the psilocybe mushroom, then it was probably dried and then ground in order to be used for baking. In fact, dried magic mushrooms are quite hard. Grinding or crushing the dried mushroom and then baking with the powder would insure that the delicate psychoactive molecules retained their highest potency.
In the next passage, the Bible describes manna as having light tan color and texture like a wafer, certainly an accurate description of the color and texture of a dried psilocybe mushroom. We also learn that the taste of manna is no longer that of fresh oil but rather that of honey. According to McKenna's research, honey has long been used in Mexico as a preserve medium for psilocybin containing mushrooms. Perhaps the children of Israel had begun to mix honey with the manna to preserve its potency. We find that Moses announced that manna must be kept for future generations:
And the house of Israel called the name there of manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey (l6:31). And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commandeth. Fill an omer of it to be kept for your generations: that they may see the bread where with I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt (l6:32).
Again we are told to fill an omer with manna. But how much is a omer? Isaac Asimov, in his book on the Bible, concludes that an omer is about four liters, while the King James version of the Bible estimates an omer to be six pints. Psilocybe mushrooms are 92% water and only 8% remains when they are dried. Also, fresh mushroom take up a lot of space, due to their shape. So four liters of fresh magic mushrooms would yield less than a tenth of a liter, or about 1/4 cup of dried, powdered manna This corresponds closely with the amount of magic mushrooms required for a moderately strong dose when used for baking. This is important because it clearly shows that not only does manna have similar qualities to magic mushrooms, it also shows that it was also used in the same quantity as mushrooms. So manna matches psilocybe mushroom on both a qualitative and quantitative analysis providing a compelling argument that psilocybe mushrooms are in actuality "manna from Heaven."
Of course there are those who will remain eternally skeptical, but keep in mind that the description of manna given in the old testament bears an exact resemblance to mushrooms. Even if psilocybe mushrooms are not manna the similarities have indicated mushrooms as a possible candidate, and they certainly fit the bill for a "spiritual food". Unfortunately, when the Children of Israel finally reach the arid land of Canaan, the mysterious manna no longer appeared.
And the manna ceased on the morrow after they had eaten of the old corn of the land: neither had the children of Israel manna any more (Joshua 5:12).
The children of Israel must have been deeply disappointed when they ran out of their sacred manna. We can see that they went to great lengths to preserve their knowledge about identifying and using manna The Old Testament contains detailed information about the color, texture, appearance, and relationship to dew, and the Old Testament even explains how manna is to be ground and then used in baking cakes. If the Israelites thought that manna was a magical event caused by God would they have bothered to note all the details about the identification of manna? What about the manna that Moses said must be put away for future generations? Turning to Hebrews 9:3-4 we find:
And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all: Which had the golden censer and the Ark of the Covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna.
Here we learn that manna was to be kept in the Holiest of all, the Ark of the Covenant. Clearly, the manna was something of great spiritual power since the Hebrews treated it with such reverence and even went to such great lengths to see that manna be given to future generations. We must also consider the covenant that the Jewish people held with God which was celebrated through the act of circumcision. Why was this covenant with God associated with the removal of foreskin from infant males. Why not a tattoo, scar, article of clothing or jewelry? Perhaps the answer is that the circumcised penis bears a remarkable resemblance to psilocybe mushroom just before the partial veil has broken away from the mushroom caps and they are at their greatest potency. If the Ark of the Covenant was specifically built to store manna it is logical was also tied to manna through the ritual act of circumcision, which gave each Jewish male his own mushroom-like penis.
The discovery that manna was (and is) psilocybe mushrooms is not simply an issue of theological or academic debate. So great was the power conferred by manna, that this small band of wandering slaves were able to defeat all enemies who crossed their path even when confronted by armies that were bigger and better equipped. Jews, Christians and Moslems can all trace their roots to the children of Israel who ate manna for forty years and saw themselves as God's chosen people. Again, we are reminded of McKenna's thesis that those who ate psilocybe mushrooms had a survival advantage due to better visual acuity, heightened senses, better hunting skills, and for the children of Israel, better warrior skills. Manna gave the Hebrews their own covenant with God one that is even recognized today by Christians who believe that the Jews have already earned a special place as the Chosen People. Bible scholar Grant Jeffrey explains:
"The covenant which God made with Abraham and the kingdom promises to David, Solomon and all the prophets will be finally realized in the Millennial Kingdom... the Lord promised a new covenant with Ismel in which He would give them a new heart, forgiveness of sin, and the infilling of the Spirit to the renewed nation. This promised kingdom will provide the fulfillment of all the hopes and dreams of the Chosen People forever."3
What is the new covenant? It is the rediscovery of manna. Across the gulf of thousands of years the Bible transmits and accurate and detailed description of manna waiting for the time when the message can be decoded and manna can again fulfill its role as a celestial messenger. Manna was the basis of the Jewish covenant with God. Indeed, it is this covenant and the use of manna which has set the Jews apart as the Chosen People. The Bible is not the message, it only points the way. Manna is the holy sacrament that provides the means for God to "prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no."
If manna is indeed the psilocybin mushroom, then this means that the Koran, Bible, and Torah were all inspired by psychedelically induced visions. The very foundations upon which these religions rest were derived from the mushroom experience. Moses and the children of Israel used the mushrooms as true sacraments to communicate with a Higher Power, also known as Allah, God and Yahweh. The discovery that manna is real and is available to us today means that like children of Israel we too can use manna to experience the joy, wisdom and spiritual renewal of the Chosen People.
Terence McKenna, Food of the Gods, (New York, Harper Collins) p. 84.
Terence McKenna, Food of the Gods, (New York, Harper Collins), p. 127.
Grant R. Jeffrey, Heaven the last Frontier, (New York; Bantam), p. 132.--------------------------------------------------
Now, i'm not saying this guy is 100% right, but I definitely feel he is probably correct. I mean come on dude, "I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance." <------whoever observed all of that was clearly tripping balls.
Just sayin...
-
I agree with the last part but disagree with the first. Or perhaps you've missed the numerous references to "manna from heaven" which clearly points to psilocybe mushroom consumption...
------------------------------------Manna From Heaven
by
Steve Kubby
polish transl. http://www.psilosophy.info/bynfnbdzbebxarbbceapbhfh
original report: http://deoxy.org/manna.htm
From Psychedelic Illuminations Volume 1, Issue VII
Illustration by Gustave Doré
There are a great many people who would never consider the use of visionary plants to be a spiritual experience. These people believe that spiritual experiences must come directly from God and that the use of visionary plants goes against the teachings of the Bible. Contrary to this notion, the Bible never explicitly prohibits the use of visionary plants or potions. What you will find however, is many curious references to a spiritual food sent down from heaven by God, called manna.
The Bible never tells us exactly what manna was and where it came from, but there are many Old Testament passages which describe its physical qualities and conditions associated with its appearance. The Bible's first reference to manna is in the Book of Exodus as the children of Israel are fleeing from Egypt and following Moses into the wilderness. After six weeks of wandering, they began complaining to Moses that they are tired and hungry. What happens next is truly extraordinary:
Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law or no (16:4).
And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground (16:14). And when the children of Israel saw if, they said one to another It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat.
When I read this passage, I was struck by the fact that manna easily fits the description of psilocybe mushrooms. For one thing magic mushrooms are small and round, and since they sprout so rapidly they would seem to appear overnight, as if out of the sky. Also, anyone harvesting them would immediately notice that they turn blue where torn and had no roots, giving more reason to believe that the mushrooms were of celestial origin. Note that manna does not just fall from heaven, but instead it is described as coming with the frost and dew, during the wet seasons. These are the precise weather conditions for mushrooms to thrive. And finally, manna is described as a bread.
Although translations have obscured the intent of this passage, it seems to be a description of how to find and identify manna and distinguish it from other non-psychoactive (or possibly lethal) mushrooms. Look for the small round things which are like bread, come with the rain, and seem to have heavenly (bluish) coloring. Psilocybe mushrooms also sprout in tiny pin heads which branch out in all directions and bear a resemblance to hoar frost.
It is also interesting to note that Moses tells the children of Israel that manna comes directly from Heaven to test them on whether or not they will walk in God's law. Here is evidence that manna was endowed with unusual spiritual powers, like those of magic mushrooms. However, manna does not automatically confer spiritual power. Instead, it serves as a test. Magic mushrooms would provide visionary experiences that would certainly test all who ingested them. Moses also said that the manna is literally the "bread of the lord" which is remarkably similar to the literal Aztec name for psilocybe mushrooms, "flesh of the gods."
But how and why did the manna suddenly appear? Again referring to the Bible, it is clear that the children of Israel had journeyed to a land where there was dew in the morning. As a large, nomadic tribe, the Israelites brought a lot of cattle and sheep together in the area. That meant a great deal of manure. The change of climate from the arid lands of Egypt to the dewy climate of the wilderness created ideal conditions for the propagation and spread of psilocybe mushrooms in livestock dung.
In Exodus 12:19-20, we find more references to manna.
Anyone familiar with wild mushrooms knows that they go bad very quickly and shrivel up under the heat of the sun, exactly like manna.
It seems curious that Moses recognized the manna instantly when the children of Israel showed it to him. He knew that the manna would spoil if it was not picked and eaten in the morning. But how did Moses know about manna? Perhaps Moses knew about manna because he had already encountered the mushroom at the time he saw the burning bush. Referring to an earlier period of his life, we find that Moses:
...kept a flock of Jethro, his father in-law the priest of Midiam: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb (3:1). And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed (3:2).
Had Moses eaten the sacred mushroom while camped at the mountain? Here again we can only speculate that manure from his flock and a change in climate had created the proper environment for the mushrooms to fruit. Perhaps Moses ingested the mushrooms purely by accident, or perhaps his father in law, who we know was also a priest, had introduced Moses to the mushroom. Archaeological evidence of psychedelic mushroom use in Biblical times is well documented by Terence McKenna, so it is reasonable to conclude that Moses could have had some experience with visionary mushrooms.1
Later, in Numbers 11:6-9, manna is again described in terms that are remarkably similar to magic mushrooms:
But now our soul is dried away: there is nothing at all, beside this manna, before our eyes. And the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof as the colour of bdelliaum. And the people went about and gathered it, and ground it in mills, or beat it in a mortar and baked it in pans: and made cakes of it: and the taste of it was as the taste of fresh oil. And when the dew fell upon the camp in the night, the manna fell upon it.
Here we find manna described as before our eyes, having a neutral taste like fresh oil, and once again, the Bible mentions that manna appearing in the morning when the dew fell. The Old Testament even tells us what manna looks like, the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof. When psilocybe mushrooms are dried, their range of colors is virtually identical to dried coriander seed. In both cases, with mushrooms and coriander seeds, we see great similarities in the texture, color, tones, contrasts and general visual appearance. The Children of Israel must have given great thought about how to transmit the appearance of manna so as to aid future generations who might encounter it. However, mushrooms were a mystery to the Hebrews and they were unable to predict where manna could be found. Little did they realize that the manure from their cattle was providing a means for the mushroom to find its way into their mountain campsites.
Notice that the manna was ground in mills or beat it in a mortar. That is odd because earlier we are told that manna was quite delicate and, then the sun wax hot, it melted. However, if manna was the psilocybe mushroom, then it was probably dried and then ground in order to be used for baking. In fact, dried magic mushrooms are quite hard. Grinding or crushing the dried mushroom and then baking with the powder would insure that the delicate psychoactive molecules retained their highest potency.
In the next passage, the Bible describes manna as having light tan color and texture like a wafer, certainly an accurate description of the color and texture of a dried psilocybe mushroom. We also learn that the taste of manna is no longer that of fresh oil but rather that of honey. According to McKenna's research, honey has long been used in Mexico as a preserve medium for psilocybin containing mushrooms. Perhaps the children of Israel had begun to mix honey with the manna to preserve its potency. We find that Moses announced that manna must be kept for future generations:
And the house of Israel called the name there of manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey (l6:31). And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commandeth. Fill an omer of it to be kept for your generations: that they may see the bread where with I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt (l6:32).
Again we are told to fill an omer with manna. But how much is a omer? Isaac Asimov, in his book on the Bible, concludes that an omer is about four liters, while the King James version of the Bible estimates an omer to be six pints. Psilocybe mushrooms are 92% water and only 8% remains when they are dried. Also, fresh mushroom take up a lot of space, due to their shape. So four liters of fresh magic mushrooms would yield less than a tenth of a liter, or about 1/4 cup of dried, powdered manna This corresponds closely with the amount of magic mushrooms required for a moderately strong dose when used for baking. This is important because it clearly shows that not only does manna have similar qualities to magic mushrooms, it also shows that it was also used in the same quantity as mushrooms. So manna matches psilocybe mushroom on both a qualitative and quantitative analysis providing a compelling argument that psilocybe mushrooms are in actuality "manna from Heaven."
Of course there are those who will remain eternally skeptical, but keep in mind that the description of manna given in the old testament bears an exact resemblance to mushrooms. Even if psilocybe mushrooms are not manna the similarities have indicated mushrooms as a possible candidate, and they certainly fit the bill for a "spiritual food". Unfortunately, when the Children of Israel finally reach the arid land of Canaan, the mysterious manna no longer appeared.
And the manna ceased on the morrow after they had eaten of the old corn of the land: neither had the children of Israel manna any more (Joshua 5:12).
The children of Israel must have been deeply disappointed when they ran out of their sacred manna. We can see that they went to great lengths to preserve their knowledge about identifying and using manna The Old Testament contains detailed information about the color, texture, appearance, and relationship to dew, and the Old Testament even explains how manna is to be ground and then used in baking cakes. If the Israelites thought that manna was a magical event caused by God would they have bothered to note all the details about the identification of manna? What about the manna that Moses said must be put away for future generations? Turning to Hebrews 9:3-4 we find:
And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all: Which had the golden censer and the Ark of the Covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna.
Here we learn that manna was to be kept in the Holiest of all, the Ark of the Covenant. Clearly, the manna was something of great spiritual power since the Hebrews treated it with such reverence and even went to such great lengths to see that manna be given to future generations. We must also consider the covenant that the Jewish people held with God which was celebrated through the act of circumcision. Why was this covenant with God associated with the removal of foreskin from infant males. Why not a tattoo, scar, article of clothing or jewelry? Perhaps the answer is that the circumcised penis bears a remarkable resemblance to psilocybe mushroom just before the partial veil has broken away from the mushroom caps and they are at their greatest potency. If the Ark of the Covenant was specifically built to store manna it is logical was also tied to manna through the ritual act of circumcision, which gave each Jewish male his own mushroom-like penis.
The discovery that manna was (and is) psilocybe mushrooms is not simply an issue of theological or academic debate. So great was the power conferred by manna, that this small band of wandering slaves were able to defeat all enemies who crossed their path even when confronted by armies that were bigger and better equipped. Jews, Christians and Moslems can all trace their roots to the children of Israel who ate manna for forty years and saw themselves as God's chosen people. Again, we are reminded of McKenna's thesis that those who ate psilocybe mushrooms had a survival advantage due to better visual acuity, heightened senses, better hunting skills, and for the children of Israel, better warrior skills. Manna gave the Hebrews their own covenant with God one that is even recognized today by Christians who believe that the Jews have already earned a special place as the Chosen People. Bible scholar Grant Jeffrey explains:
"The covenant which God made with Abraham and the kingdom promises to David, Solomon and all the prophets will be finally realized in the Millennial Kingdom... the Lord promised a new covenant with Ismel in which He would give them a new heart, forgiveness of sin, and the infilling of the Spirit to the renewed nation. This promised kingdom will provide the fulfillment of all the hopes and dreams of the Chosen People forever."3
What is the new covenant? It is the rediscovery of manna. Across the gulf of thousands of years the Bible transmits and accurate and detailed description of manna waiting for the time when the message can be decoded and manna can again fulfill its role as a celestial messenger. Manna was the basis of the Jewish covenant with God. Indeed, it is this covenant and the use of manna which has set the Jews apart as the Chosen People. The Bible is not the message, it only points the way. Manna is the holy sacrament that provides the means for God to "prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no."
If manna is indeed the psilocybin mushroom, then this means that the Koran, Bible, and Torah were all inspired by psychedelically induced visions. The very foundations upon which these religions rest were derived from the mushroom experience. Moses and the children of Israel used the mushrooms as true sacraments to communicate with a Higher Power, also known as Allah, God and Yahweh. The discovery that manna is real and is available to us today means that like children of Israel we too can use manna to experience the joy, wisdom and spiritual renewal of the Chosen People.
Terence McKenna, Food of the Gods, (New York, Harper Collins) p. 84.
Terence McKenna, Food of the Gods, (New York, Harper Collins), p. 127.
Grant R. Jeffrey, Heaven the last Frontier, (New York; Bantam), p. 132.--------------------------------------------------
Now, i'm not saying this guy is 100% right, but I definitely feel he is probably correct. I mean come on dude, "I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance." <------whoever observed all of that was clearly tripping balls.
Just sayin...
WTF Man
I’m not going to read that wall of text
What are you On & On About In Brief.
-
WTF Man
I’m not going to read that wall of text
What are you On & On About In Brief.
I contend that a good many verses in the Bible point to the use of magic mushrooms (or other psychoactive flora and fauna) which is something many of faith refuse to admit is obviously true.
*Ahem* "I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance."
I suppose you could just assume some normal guy actually experienced that totally sober but I'm definitely going to say WHOEVER WROTE THAT WAS HIGH AS FUCK.
In a nutshell anyway.
-
I contend that a good many verses in the Bible point to the use of magic mushrooms (or other psychoactive flora and fauna) which is something many of faith refuse to admit is obviously true.
*Ahem* "I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance."
I suppose you could just assume some normal guy actually experienced that totally sober but I'm definitely going to say WHOEVER WROTE THAT WAS HIGH AS FUCK.
In a nutshell anyway.
Ahhh - Yes
I’d say he was high as a kite
So they wrote hallucinogenic fairy tales - Great
And people - 1, Believe this Nonsense & 2, Kill each other over this nonsense :o
Damn Civilisation has Progressed Far For Belivers.
-
I contend that a good many verses in the Bible point to the use of magic mushrooms (or other psychoactive flora and fauna) which is something many of faith refuse to admit is obviously true.
*Ahem* "I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance."
I suppose you could just assume some normal guy actually experienced that totally sober but I'm definitely going to say WHOEVER WROTE THAT WAS HIGH AS FUCK.
In a nutshell anyway.
You've definitely exposed a hidden truth in scripture that the entire Christian faith knows fully yet doesn't disclose publically!!