Author Topic: Civil religious discussion  (Read 60698 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2019, 12:19:38 PM »
Thanks for your reply

I approach the subject of a god or gods within open rational mind - as there are so many different
Religions. No one including yourself has posted anything remotely resembling a Clear Answer
Or Proof of A god/s - Nothing that doesn’t involve suspending the reality we use & live in
Everyday - Why is that ?
There’s Zero Fact or Proof a god/s exists.
If as You Profess We Are All The Sons / Daughters of god Why Doesn’t He Come To Us ?
Not Much of A Father Figure is He.

I Still say there is NO god/s & it’s all fairy tales & a old fashioned means to control people
With fear & rhetoric - Many Many Fear Death and Need Something To Believe/ Cling onto
That there is Something else Beyond Life..  ::)

There isn’t and everyone Knows IT.

I believe in God.  I'm not afraid.  I don't live in fear.  Religion doesn't control me.  I make my own independent decisions.  There are many other people like me. 

Can I prove God exists?  No.  You cannot prove a faith-based belief.  Don't confuse a faith-based belief with science. 

And as I've said many times on the board, everyone has faith-based beliefs, whether they want to admit it or not. 

Skeletor

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2019, 12:59:47 PM »
So many approach God through a scientific lens which is ironic considering the overwhelming volume of evidence for God that is rarely followed to a conclusion and typically dismissed out of hand....doesn't comport with scientific methods so often espoused.

The simple realization that finally struck me is that people don't need irrefutable proof from other believers because God's truth is already written on their hearts.  Everyone knows that God is real.  

What I see is the act of suppression of that truth and need for them to break their self deception.  That's why I actually don't believe in theists or atheists.....there's really only lovers of God and haters of God because all know God exists.

You're right that no other religion has ever offered definite proof of what they believe.  Only one exception in Christianity.  We have Jesus Christ and his resurrection.  Further believers have within them the Holy Spirit of God.

I note all this to simply say that if you want to know God personally then you have to come to him faithfully (given everyone knows he is real), repent of your sins and believe in Christ's work on the cross.  Put another way, read the bible and do what it says.

But why don't most follow this simple path to righteousness?  It's much easier to live without accountability and do whatever you want in this life.  And because God grants this freedom to engage in sin or engage in righteousness we see rampant, deplorable acts of men in every era of humankind......and then the majority blames God for the evil of men.....zero accountability....it's always someone else's fault and God is a wonderful scapegoat for people.

So you are saying that every single person on Earth "knows" that your specific god is real?

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2019, 01:13:43 PM »
I believe in God.  I'm not afraid.  I don't live in fear.  Religion doesn't control me.  I make my own independent decisions.  There are many other people like me.  

Can I prove God exists?  No.  You cannot prove a faith-based belief.  Don't confuse a faith-based belief with science.  

And as I've said many times on the board, everyone has faith-based beliefs, whether they want to admit it or not.  

That’s all well and good & I'm pleased for you.

Thank you - You’ve at least Admitted it’s not provable a god/s exists
And it is “Faith & Beliefs” Not Factual.
Like I said it works for you - Great.

Only as you well know many many people do live in Fear / are afraid / and are controlled by Religion
The World over.

Man of Steel

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2019, 07:31:13 AM »
So you are saying that every single person on Earth "knows" that your specific god is real?

Yes.  Everyone knows that God is real.  His law is imprinted on each of us and we see his creation and recognize his hand at work.

Now, tribal folks in a distant jungle may not know the name of Jesus, but they know that God exists and they instinctively understand right and wrong, life and death, good and evil, light and dark, etc....

Man of Steel

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2019, 07:32:26 AM »
Thanks for your reply

I approach the subject of a god or gods within open rational mind - as there are so many different
Religions. No one including yourself has posted anything remotely resembling a Clear Answer
Or Proof of A god/s - Nothing that doesn’t involve suspending the reality we use & live in
Everyday - Why is that ?
There’s Zero Fact or Proof a god/s exists.
If as You Profess We Are All The Sons / Daughters of god Why Doesn’t He Come To Us ?
Not Much of A Father Figure is He.

I Still say there is NO god/s & it’s all fairy tales & a old fashioned means to control people
With fear & rhetoric - Many Many Fear Death and Need Something To Believe/ Cling onto
That there is Something else Beyond Life..  ::)

There isn’t and everyone Knows IT.

I do appreciate your willingness to speak openly and rationally.  Certainly we disagree on some things, but you're willing to discuss calmly and reasonably which again I appreciate.   

Man of Steel

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2019, 07:35:29 AM »
I believe in God.  I'm not afraid.  I don't live in fear.  Religion doesn't control me.  I make my own independent decisions.  There are many other people like me.  

Can I prove God exists?  No.  You cannot prove a faith-based belief.  Don't confuse a faith-based belief with science.  

And as I've said many times on the board, everyone has faith-based beliefs, whether they want to admit it or not.  

Exactly, the demand for scientific evidence or proof for a non-scientific, transcendent, divine God is not how it works.

In short, we must read the bible and do what it says.  I don't have questions about the reality of God....I know God is real because he's proven it to me time and time again.

My faith is also grounded on those promises of Christ yet to be fulfilled given what has already been fulfilled in my life and the lives of others.

All we can do is lead by example and share with others the gospel message and reason for the hope within us.  Providing definite proofs is not what we as believers must focus on and the reason we need not focus on that is because everyone knows that God exists.

So we can cut to the chase and confront issues of sin and the need for repentance and faith in Christ's work.


Dos Equis

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2019, 01:09:26 PM »
That’s all well and good & I'm pleased for you.

Thank you - You’ve at least Admitted it’s not provable a god/s exists
And it is “Faith & Beliefs” Not Factual.
Like I said it works for you - Great.

Only as you well know many many people do live in Fear / are afraid / and are controlled by Religion
The World over.

What religion are you talking about specifically?  I know Christians far and wide who don't fall in the fear/afraid/control category. 

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2019, 06:35:54 PM »
What religion are you talking about specifically?  I know Christians far and wide who don't fall in the fear/afraid/control category.  

I’m not talking about any religion specifically.
As you well know there are many many ( probably millions ) around the world
Who are afraid/ fearfull / & controlled by what there Religion demands / Tells them.

I don’t see how you can be religious & not be controlled by your religion to a greater or lesser extent
To conform to what your religion says is being controlled. That maybe a good thing or a bad thing.

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2019, 06:48:07 PM »
I do appreciate your willingness to speak openly and rationally.  Certainly we disagree on some things, but you're willing to discuss calmly and reasonably which again I appreciate.   

Thank you & I'm equally pleased you are taking part / responding in a civil manner
That makes such a change on Getbig.

I’m looking for evidence & Proof of a god / gods and I don’t see any or found any,
I’ve tried previously in times of great pain & distress to speak / seek / feel anything
And Nothing - Even after the loss of very very dear close family members.

When I see & Hear all the Horrible acts done by “Men of God” of all religions
On innocent young children I Just Cannot Accept That If There Is God’s they
Would allow that to Happen - No Almighty / All Powerful Entity Could Possible Allow That
And Do Nothing - Just let it Happen!!
And then those perpetrators can absolve themselves by repenting Etc and all is Forgiven
I don’t think so. That makes no sense either.

 


Agnostic007

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2019, 08:02:00 PM »
Yes.  Everyone knows that God is real.  His law is imprinted on each of us and we see his creation and recognize his hand at work.

Now, tribal folks in a distant jungle may not know the name of Jesus, but they know that God exists and they instinctively understand right and wrong, life and death, good and evil, light and dark, etc....

If they instinctively know right from wrong, would they know slavery is right, or wrong?

Man of Steel

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #60 on: June 30, 2019, 09:07:24 AM »
If they instinctively know right from wrong, would they know slavery is right, or wrong?

I think the same way a 2-yr old child that first makes a mess and immediately tries to disguise it from Mom and Dad knows what they did was wrong even without being told it was.

Still the term "slavery" is loosely thrown around as it relates to scripture and often with zero context.  It's typically associated with the antebellum South or ancient Egypt in which men, women and children were worked to death.  Awful, immoral act that God does not endorse.  

What of the other type of slavery in bondservitude?  The system used by God's chosen people to work off their debts with dignity and respect. This system stood in stark contrast to the surrounding pagan nations who engaged in wicked enslavement practices.

Further, what of Christians that are self-professed slaves of Jesus Christ?  Those that forgo of their own will and adopt the will of Christ for themselves.

People that behave wickedly suppress God's truth or pervert his truth via their subjectivity in favor of their selfish, wicked desires.  They know they are wrong as much as the Israelites knew they were right in Christ.

Man of Steel

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #61 on: June 30, 2019, 09:22:21 AM »
Thank you & I'm equally pleased you are taking part / responding in a civil manner
That makes such a change on Getbig.

I’m looking for evidence & Proof of a god / gods and I don’t see any or found any,
I’ve tried previously in times of great pain & distress to speak / seek / feel anything
And Nothing - Even after the loss of very very dear close family members.

When I see & Hear all the Horrible acts done by “Men of God” of all religions
On innocent young children I Just Cannot Accept That If There Is God’s they
Would allow that to Happen - No Almighty / All Powerful Entity Could Possible Allow That
And Do Nothing - Just let it Happen!!
And then those perpetrators can absolve themselves by repenting Etc and all is Forgiven
I don’t think so. That makes no sense either.

 



But God has done something.  He made you and me as stewards or governors over his creation to help others in need from those that willfully forsake God.  We are empowered to do what is right and to bring the justice of God to those that need it most.

The US alone could permanently eradicate world hunger and poverty in a month if they chose to do so with the vast resources at their disposal but don't because we're so embroiled in selfish political maneuvers that we forsake the abundant blessings of God that have been provided for us that could and should be allocated to others globally.

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #62 on: June 30, 2019, 11:41:37 AM »
But God has done something.  He made you and me as stewards or governors over his creation to help others in need from those that willfully forsake God.  We are empowered to do what is right and to bring the justice of God to those that need it most.

The US alone could permanently eradicate world hunger and poverty in a month if they chose to do so with the vast resources at their disposal but don't because we're so embroiled in selfish political maneuvers that we forsake the abundant blessings of God that have been provided for us that could and should be allocated to others globally.

Totally Disagree he hasn’t Done anything - My Parents made Me And we’re All a product of Nature
& Beyond That Space & The Universe

MOS you posted my Quote only avoid giving any type of Answers
To my Questions - Why ?

Man of Steel

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #63 on: June 30, 2019, 02:11:14 PM »
Totally Disagree he hasn’t Done anything - My Parents made Me And we’re All a product of Nature
& Beyond That Space & The Universe

MOS you posted my Quote only avoid giving any type of Answers
To my Questions - Why ?

I'm sorry but I don't follow what you're asking?  What have I avoided?   The only question I saw was what has God done and I answered that.  Sorry I don't give many "wall of text" exhaustive responses on GB anymore.   I keep answers as brief as possible and copy and paste from my existing responses when possible.

I'm not at all scared of any question and that's not boasting either.   If I've missed something you would like me to answer then let me know.   From your line of thought the classic "problem of evil" or "if God is all powerful why does he allow...." are all possible questions which I've answered repeatedly on these boards in an exhaustive manner and have only gotten essentially what you responded with in your last post of this thread.  

Respectfully, why should I give more?  It's clear to me your mind is made up despite being willing to discuss calmly.  Although once I know with reasonable certainty that someone's mind is made up on answers to questions before the question is posed I completely disengage now.   Unfortunately, I don't believe I can provide you any answer that you'll accept as cogent or valid.   I don't mean to be insulting either I've just done this dance for years and years and know the outcome so I just stop.  

The questions get repeatedly asked in different forms, but my answers will always be the same and the answer is rejected without any further investigation via the person posing the question.

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2019, 12:19:09 AM »
I'm sorry but I don't follow what you're asking?  What have I avoided?   The only question I saw was what has God done and I answered that.  Sorry I don't give many "wall of text" exhaustive responses on GB anymore.   I keep answers as brief as possible and copy and paste from my existing responses when possible.

I'm not at all scared of any question and that's not boasting either.   If I've missed something you would like me to answer then let me know.   From your line of thought the classic "problem of evil" or "if God is all powerful why does he allow...." are all possible questions which I've answered repeatedly on these boards in an exhaustive manner and have only gotten essentially what you responded with in your last post of this thread.  

Respectfully, why should I give more?  It's clear to me your mind is made up despite being willing to discuss calmly.  Although once I know with reasonable certainty that someone's mind is made up on answers to questions before the question is posed I completely disengage now.   Unfortunately, I don't believe I can provide you any answer that you'll accept as cogent or valid.   I don't mean to be insulting either I've just done this dance for years and years and know the outcome so I just stop.  

The questions get repeatedly asked in different forms, but my answers will always be the same and the answer is rejected without any further investigation via the person posing the question.

Fair enough.
I’ll take that as My answers cannot be Answered in a Reasonable/ Factual Manner Then
And That to Answer Them for me in a satisfactory manner I’d Have to Suspend Reality
Etc and Be Left With Fairy Tales & God works in mysterious ways.

The problem I have with that type of Answer is That These Monstrous Acts are being done
By Men / Women of God in His Houses of Worship are Real & Factual And Proven
There is No Need to Suspend reality or for fairy tales - It’s Hard Horrible Fact.

Yet when trying to answer why this is allowed in the Name of God it cannot be done
In a Factual manner.

Sorry to Break it To You - There Is No God/s - Nada / Nothing No Heaven or Hell
We here for a brief while Then We Gone. End OF.

Dos Equis

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2019, 04:46:31 PM »
I’m not talking about any religion specifically.
As you well know there are many many ( probably millions ) around the world
Who are afraid/ fearfull / & controlled by what there Religion demands / Tells them.

I don’t see how you can be religious & not be controlled by your religion to a greater or lesser extent
To conform to what your religion says is being controlled. That maybe a good thing or a bad thing.

What you are saying isn't consistent with Christianity.  Being a Christian is all about choice.  You can choose to live a certain lifestyle.  You can choose to attend church or not, give an offering or not, etc. 

A lot of people are simply grounded, not controlled, by their faith. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2019, 05:02:23 PM »
What you are saying isn't consistent with Christianity.  Being a Christian is all about choice.  You can choose to live a certain lifestyle.  You can choose to attend church or not, give an offering or not, etc. 

A lot of people are simply grounded, not controlled, by their faith. 

I agree. My perception of the religion of Christianity is there are some whackos, those who attend churches where poisonous snakes are handled, or parents rely on prayer instead of medical attention for their children, but for the majority of U.S. Christians, and this is my observation growing up in the bible belt, they are Christian in name only. They may attend church but usually it's for the social gathering. They lie and cheat at the same frequency as non Christians and  spend next to no time actually studying the bible or making a real attempt to follow Jesus' teachings. So yes, there is a small percentage that are controlled by their beliefs, but the majority use Christianity as an insurance policy just in case it's true, or the grew up in the religious culture and are comfortable playing the role.

Dos Equis

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #67 on: July 01, 2019, 06:20:17 PM »
I agree. My perception of the religion of Christianity is there are some whackos, those who attend churches where poisonous snakes are handled, or parents rely on prayer instead of medical attention for their children, but for the majority of U.S. Christians, and this is my observation growing up in the bible belt, they are Christian in name only. They may attend church but usually it's for the social gathering. They lie and cheat at the same frequency as non Christians and  spend next to no time actually studying the bible or making a real attempt to follow Jesus' teachings. So yes, there is a small percentage that are controlled by their beliefs, but the majority use Christianity as an insurance policy just in case it's true, or the grew up in the religious culture and are comfortable playing the role.

That's your experience, but then again you have hardly ever been approached by people trying to hand you religious literature, so I suspect your experience is pretty limited. 

Someone who "lies and cheats" isn't necessarily a Christian in name only.  We are all sinners.  No one is perfect.  You don't become some paragon of virtue walking around with a halo when you become a Christian. 

Your insurance policy comments are pretty funny.  For someone who likes to quote the Bible and talk about Christians a lot, you really know very little about both. 

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #68 on: July 01, 2019, 07:46:24 PM »
What you are saying isn't consistent with Christianity.  Being a Christian is all about choice.  You can choose to live a certain lifestyle.  You can choose to attend church or not, give an offering or not, etc. 

A lot of people are simply grounded, not controlled, by their faith. 

As I stated I wasn’t picking on any one religion it was a general statement regarding all religions.

Well from what you’ve stated about Christianity - unknowingly I must be a Christian
I choose my lifestyle & not to go to church & Not Believe in God’s
I’m very well Grounded .

Agnostic007

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #69 on: July 01, 2019, 10:29:29 PM »
That's your experience, but then again you have hardly ever been approached by people trying to hand you religious literature, so I suspect your experience is pretty limited.  

Someone who "lies and cheats" isn't necessarily a Christian in name only.  We are all sinners.  No one is perfect.  You don't become some paragon of virtue walking around with a halo when you become a Christian.  

Your insurance policy comments are pretty funny.  For someone who likes to quote the Bible and talk about Christians a lot, you really know very little about both.  

Ouch.. your stinging comment about my lack of biblical knowledge, hurts... Thats something along the lines of what you were expecting?  I can only hope to one day obtain your vast knowledge of the bible.  :o

And yes, it is my experience, thats why I used the words "perception" and "observation". Good catch!  Now, can you try and remain civil until at least the 4th page?

Dos Equis

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2019, 12:56:39 PM »
As I stated I wasn’t picking on any one religion it was a general statement regarding all religions.

Well from what you’ve stated about Christianity - unknowingly I must be a Christian
I choose my lifestyle & not to go to church & Not Believe in God’s
I’m very well Grounded .

Welcome to the club.   :)

Dos Equis

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2019, 01:00:02 PM »
Ouch.. your stinging comment about my lack of biblical knowledge, hurts... Thats something along the lines of what you were expecting?  I can only hope to one day obtain your vast knowledge of the bible.  :o

And yes, it is my experience, thats why I used the words "perception" and "observation". Good catch!  Now, can you try and remain civil until at least the 4th page?

You are protesting too much.  There was nothing uncivil about my comments.  Just stating my observation and correcting your ridiculous characterizations of millions of people. 

I've said this before many times, but I find it interesting and amusing that atheists spend so much time reading portions of the Bible and obsessing over something they don't believe exists.  You folks spend an inordinate amount of time trying to convert people.   

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #72 on: July 02, 2019, 01:11:53 PM »
You are protesting too much.  There was nothing uncivil about my comments.  Just stating my observation and correcting your ridiculous characterizations of millions of people. 

I've said this before many times, but I find it interesting and amusing that atheists spend so much time reading portions of the Bible and obsessing over something they don't believe exists.  You folks spend an inordinate amount of time trying to convert people.   

I've probably said this a time or two, I've read the bible, cover to cover. Something most Christians who "believe" that it's the word of their god don't bother to do.. which supports my theory

Dos Equis

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #73 on: July 02, 2019, 01:30:45 PM »
I've probably said this a time or two, I've read the bible, cover to cover. Something most Christians who "believe" that it's the word of their god don't bother to do.. which supports my theory

You have read the Bible cover to cover and still understand very little.  Sad. 

How do you know what most Christians do? 

illuminati

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Re: Civil religious discussion
« Reply #74 on: July 02, 2019, 01:43:51 PM »
I’ve never read any of the religious fictional story books.
And I don’t intend to either.

All these far off ancient wonders & miraculous things That happened long before
Cameras & videos - One or 2 happening now in this day & age would be very positive
Proof - Ahhh god/s all work in mysterious ways  ::) ::)
Yes just like uri gellar does - when put to the test he could do Fuck all
Yet Millions Believed Him.  ::)