What if God and Satan reconciled?

[Dr Loomis]

Is that possible? What would happen if it occurred?

If not, why isn't it?

[Migs]

all hell would break loose

[Dr Loomis]

all hell would break loose

But Satan was god's favorite. If life is to be lived, why can't there be reconciliation in the heavens?

[Oldschool Flip]

Lol, they are probably having a blast fucking with people's minds.

[Mr. Magoo]

Lol, they are probably having a blast fucking with people's minds.

lol that made me laugh

How can Satan run loose? Does he run loose? If not then why doesnt God control him more? Does he control him? Wouldn't that mean God is in charge of sin then? If he is, why doesnt he eliminate it? Can he eliminate it? If not then how is he all powerful? How can Satan deny God in the first place? Doesn't God create angels? How can an angel be against God? Did God create Satan to be against him? If so, why? Arn't angels perfect?

 

[Butterbean]

But Satan was god's favorite. If life is to be lived, why can't there be reconciliation in the heavens?

According to the bible, reconciliation between God and Satan will not occur.  At least up to the point we can read through Revelation.


(my beliefs/feelings in red)

How can Satan run loose? God "gave" him the world before Satan fell....He has not yet taken away that power.

Does he run loose? If not then why doesnt God control him more? Does he control him?Satan runs pretty loose I think.  Maybe God does control him a lot though.  Maybe things would be much, much worse.  Yes, God does control him but he still allows him to do certain things.

 Wouldn't that mean God is in charge of sin then? Yes, ultimately.If he is, why doesnt he eliminate it? He will.  But as for now he is still allowing it. Can he eliminate it? YesIf not then how is he all powerful? How can Satan deny God in the first place? PrideDoesn't God create angels? YesHow can an angel be against God? Pride.Did God create Satan to be against him? I don't think so.If so, why? Arn't angels perfect? No.

 

[Dr Loomis]

According to the bible, reconciliation between God and Satan will not occur.  At least up to the point we can read through Revelation.

That's correct, but why do you feel you're in control of your life and make your own decisions if everything is already written?

[big L dawg]

for the same reason cobra commander will never reconcile with G.I. joe,without each other there out of a job.

[Butterbean]

That's correct, but why do you feel you're in control of your life and make your own decisions if everything is already written?

I wouldn't say I am in ultimate control of my life but I do believe I have free will.

My whole life specifically is not written in the bible so I wouldn't say that everything about it is already written.

[Parker]

lol that made me laugh

How can Satan run loose? Does he run loose? If not then why doesnt God control him more? Does he control him? Wouldn't that mean God is in charge of sin then? If he is, why doesnt he eliminate it? Can he eliminate it? If not then how is he all powerful? How can Satan deny God in the first place? Doesn't God create angels? How can an angel be against God? Did God create Satan to be against him? If so, why? Arn't angels perfect?

 

Satan is needed. Without an Example of Evil, there is no reason to be good. Without an example of Good, all would be evil.  Can you picture life without Evil? Everybody sing that Lala song like Smurfette. Ugh!! Life would be boring. And can you imagine life With nO Good? Civilization would not have gotten that far, in fact there might not be a human race.

So in fact, there is a Collusion between the two entities, each one needs the other...The Ultimate Ying-Yang.

[big L dawg]

[Joel_A]

Stephen Lynch is one funny dude!! 

[Government_Controlled]

lol that made me laugh

How can Satan run loose? Does he run loose? If not then why doesnt God control him more? Does he control him? Wouldn't that mean God is in charge of sin then? If he is, why doesnt he eliminate it? Can he eliminate it? If not then how is he all powerful? How can Satan deny God in the first place? Doesn't God create angels? How can an angel be against God? Did God create Satan to be against him? If so, why? Arn't angels perfect?

 

I would think because of free will?...Seems like if God created intellegent beings that can make choices, then they would have to have free will to do so...Otherwise, they would be robots...just throwing this out there...


GC

[liberalismo]

The whole story of God vs Satan makes no sense.

1.If God were indeed all powerful, then he could destroy Satan forever or at least make him impotent and powerless. This way Satan would have no influence on people, less would go to hell, and thus less suffering. People could still do what they wanted, but would simply be influenced less by Satan and thus less prone to doing what Satan wants them to do.


2. What's the point of Hell being about torture? God sent Satan to hell to suffer, yet still allows him to have all sorts of powers of influences over humanity? Makes no sense. Why is hell even about suffering and torture? Why would an omnipotent/all knowing/ all moral God have an aptitude for revenge or retribution or even punishment? Why not simply separate the people who don't want to be with him from the people that do, without subjecting the people who don't want to be with him to eternal torture and suffering in fire and brimstone?? 


3. Why is Satan the bad guy and God the good guy? It seems to me like it should be in reverse. Calculate all of the people that God killed in the Bible and those that Satan Killed.

God killed: Millions and Millions and Millions.
Satan killed: something like 13 or 14 people in Job...But only because God (being his arrogant and prideful self) made a bet with Satan.

So what's the deal here? God made humans because he was prideful and wanted to be worshiped, he reigned with an iron fist and destroyed anyone who disagreed with him or challenged him. Lucifer (Satan) decided that he didn't like God having all of the power and thought he should have some as well, and so he attempted a Coup d'état, but God defeated him and threw him down to hell to suffer. Lucifer simply didn't believe in God having all of the power, yet Lucifer is the bad guy?

[Government_Controlled]

The whole story of God vs Satan makes no sense.

I have to agree because of the misconception or rather flat false teachings of the Bible...However, from my studies, it makes sense if the truth is being relayed from the Bible.

1.If God were indeed all powerful, then he could destroy Satan forever or at least make him impotent and powerless. This way Satan would have no influence on people, less would go to hell, and thus less suffering. People could still do what they wanted, but would simply be influenced less by Satan and thus less prone to doing what Satan wants them to do.

It would be a bliss if the good for nothing devil wouldn't exist at present!...The scriptures do tell of his upcoming death/destruction tho...At Genesis 3:15, God did give the first prophecy regarding the destruction of Satan...Also, Satan was cast out of heaven years ago (Revelation 12:7-9) to earth along with his demons. This restricted them from being able to go to and fro from earth to heaven. So, according to the Bible we have to put up with him and his demons. Explains a lot of the evil that occurs on this planet now, and as to why it has escalated. Right now, satan and the demons have free will just like we do. So, the influence that satan and the demons have is temporary. Important to note that it is influence that they have. They cannot make us choose what they want us to do. The Bible does guarantee his and the demons destruction, you can count on that.

2. What's the point of Hell being about torture? God sent Satan to hell to suffer, yet still allows him to have all sorts of powers of influences over humanity? Makes no sense. Why is hell even about suffering and torture? Why would an omnipotent/all knowing/ all moral God have an aptitude for revenge or retribution or even punishment?

Well from what I can tell, the Bible doesn't teach that God will torture people. He merely will destroy them. I agree, if God were to torture people for eternity, that wouldn't be so loving. God even says He wishes no one to be destroyed.However, He does have high standards that are expected for his creatures to follow. So, thru disobedience death occurs. I would hate to live in a world that didn't have laws or principles to live by. It would be utter chaos.

Why not simply separate the people who don't want to be with him from the people that do, without subjecting the people who don't want to be with him to eternal torture and suffering in fire and brimstone?? 

This is exactly what is going on now. The Bible teaches that a separation of the sheep from the goats would occur in the last days. And no worries as to suffering eternal torture...The bible doesn't teach that...Jesus said that these goats along with the devil and the demons would be destroyed, not tortured forever. Remember what Genesis stated as to what Adam and Eve could do and not do?...Genesis 2:15-17 recorded God's instructions to Adam and Eve there. Notice that Adam and Eve were not told that if they disobeyed they would be punished by eternal torture...It simply states that they would die. It would have been very unloving for God to have led them to believe that only death would occur yet an eternal punishment in a burning fire was the reality. Take one of my children for ex. If I were to give him some rules to abide by and tell him that a certain punishment would be given if he broke those rules, then by all means I should stick to what I vowed as a loving father. It would be utter evil for me to give that child a complete different punishment if he broke that rule. Especially if it involved torturing the child for ever...A loving father would not do that.
 

3. Why is Satan the bad guy and God the good guy? It seems to me like it should be in reverse. Calculate all of the people that God killed in the Bible and those that Satan Killed.

I see where that would be detrimental to God's personality...However, from what I'm reading in the Bible, it is saying that the devil is responsible for way way more deaths than God. Not only that, but those deaths initiated by the devil were innocent people. whereas, deaths by God were just. Here are a few scriptures on this. They refer to who is in power of the world, which is the devil, not God:

2 Cor. 4:4
1 John 5:19
Ephesians 2:2
Rev. 12:9
John 14:30

This is one of the many deceits that the devil has used over the centuries to mislead people into believing that God is responsible for all of these deaths. He's not, it's the devil who is behind it.

But only because God (being his arrogant and prideful self) made a bet with Satan.

Honestly, I read it the other way around...It was the devil whom approached God as to whether Job would remain faithful under test. (Job 1:6,7)...It was the devils arrogance and pride that brought this account up. God, granted the devil the right to put Job thru a battery of evils. One thing was limited tho, and that was that the devil could not take Job's life. Anyway, Job proved faithful in that story.

So what's the deal here? God made humans because he was prideful and wanted to be worshiped, he reigned with an iron fist and destroyed anyone who disagreed with him or challenged him. Lucifer (Satan) decided that he didn't like God having all of the power and thought he should have some as well, and so he attempted a Coup d'état, but God
defeated him and threw him down to hell to suffer. Lucifer simply didn't believe in God having all of the power, yet

Not quite, I've covered most of this in the above post...Just like to add, that "lucifer" is not found in the Bible as the personal name of the devil. He is merely referred to as devil/satan. Mans original purpose was really simply and a wonderful prospect of peace and harmony with all of God's creation...Genesis 2:28-30
 

[calfzilla]

Say goodbye to ever masterbating again. 

[liberalismo]

It would be a bliss if the good for nothing devil wouldn't exist at present!...The scriptures do tell of his upcoming death/destruction tho...At Genesis 3:15, God did give the first prophecy regarding the destruction of Satan...Also, Satan was cast out of heaven years ago (Revelation 12:7-9) to earth along with his demons. This restricted them from being able to go to and fro from earth to heaven. So, according to the Bible we have to put up with him and his demons. Explains a lot of the evil that occurs on this planet now, and as to why it has escalated. Right now, satan and the demons have free will just like we do. So, the influence that satan and the demons have is temporary. Important to note that it is influence that they have. They cannot make us choose what they want us to do. The Bible does guarantee his and the demons destruction, you can count on that.

Yea, none of this really answers my question.

Well from what I can tell, the Bible doesn't teach that God will torture people. He merely will destroy them. I agree, if God were to torture people for eternity, that wouldn't be so loving. God even says He wishes no one to be destroyed.However, He does have high standards that are expected for his creatures to follow. So, thru disobedience death occurs. I would hate to live in a world that didn't have laws or principles to live by. It would be utter chaos.

The Bible says that sinners will suffer eternal torment in hell doesn't it?

Even "destruction". What kind of moral being destroys people who don't accept him or worship him? This seems...Evil.

This is exactly what is going on now. The Bible teaches that a separation of the sheep from the goats would occur in the last days. And no worries as to suffering eternal torture...The bible doesn't teach that...Jesus said that these goats along with the devil and the demons would be destroyed, not tortured forever. Remember what Genesis stated as to what Adam and Eve could do and not do?...Genesis 2:15-17 recorded God's instructions to Adam and Eve there. Notice that Adam and Eve were not told that if they disobeyed they would be punished by eternal torture...It simply states that they would die. It would have been very unloving for God to have led them to believe that only death would occur yet an eternal punishment in a burning fire was the reality. Take one of my children for ex. If I were to give him some rules to abide by and tell him that a certain punishment would be given if he broke those rules, then by all means I should stick to what I vowed as a loving father. It would be utter evil for me to give that child a complete different punishment if he broke that rule. Especially if it involved torturing the child for ever...A loving father would not do that.

Matthew 13:42: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Revelation 21:8: "But the fearful, and unbelieving ... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."
Revelation 20:13-15: "...hell delivered up the dead which were in them...And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

 

I see where that would be detrimental to God's personality...However, from what I'm reading in the Bible, it is saying that the devil is responsible for way way more deaths than God. Not only that, but those deaths initiated by the devil were innocent people. whereas, deaths by God were just. Here are a few scriptures on this. They refer to who is in power of the world, which is the devil, not God:

2 Cor. 4:4
1 John 5:19
Ephesians 2:2
Rev. 12:9
John 14:30

None of those are examples of Satan killing people. The dozen or so people that Satan did kill were perhaps innocent, but are you SERIOUSLY claiming that all of the babies and children killed during the great flood of Noah were not innocent? Or perhaps the children in Sodom and Gomorrah? Surely there must have also been innocent adults among them as well, not even to mention the innocent animals that suffered and died according to the story (everyone forgets the animals).

This is one of the many deceits that the devil has used over the centuries to mislead people into believing that God is responsible for all of these deaths. He's not, it's the devil who is behind it.

So Lucifer flooded the world, killing millions and millions of people?
Lucifer ordered the Jews to rape and pillage town after town?
Lucifer destroyed cities with fire and brimstone?
Lucifer blackmailed humanity into worshiping him with the threat of hell if they refused?
Lucifer sadistically tested his worshipers with childish games and evil tricks?

No. 

Honestly, I read it the other way around...It was the devil whom approached God as to whether Job would remain faithful under test. (Job 1:6,7)...It was the devils arrogance and pride that brought this account up. God, granted the devil the right to put Job thru a battery of evils. One thing was limited tho, and that was that the devil could not take Job's life. Anyway, Job proved faithful in that story.

Why would an omnipotent, all powerful, all knowing all moral God get into a childish bet with Lucifer? It makes no sense. Why would an almighty creator of the universe need to prove himself to Lucifer in a bet? Why do such a thing? Moreover, God being all powerful, could EASILY have proven Lucifer wrong without resorting to some bet or allowing Lucifer to take lives or cause Job suffering and years of misery. God could have just said "let it be that Lucifer sees that Job will remain faithful" without ever actually going through the trials and torture for Job. So it makes no sense, and only shows how it was in fact totally fabricated by a human with a human perspective.

Not quite, I've covered most of this in the above post...Just like to add, that "lucifer" is not found in the Bible as the personal name of the devil. He is merely referred to as devil/satan. Mans original purpose was really simply and a wonderful prospect of peace and harmony with all of God's creation...Genesis 2:28-30

Lucifer means "morning star" and is the Latin form of the name given to Satan. Lucifer meaning "bringer of light".



Man's original purpose was a prospect of peace and harmony with all God's creation? This sentence doesn't even make sense. Humans are anything BUT harmonious with the rest of nature, and it seems pointless for an omnipotent all knowing all present being to do ANYTHING, let alone make a race of creatures to worship him. Omnipotent/Omniscient/Omnipresent beings don't have desires or emotions or anything like this (logically, if they existed, but they don't). An omnipotent being could see any and all circumstances and possible events, and thus this would negate the need of actually doing anything, since the being would already know the outcome.

[Government_Controlled]

Yea, none of this really answers my question.



The Bible says that sinners will suffer eternal torment in hell doesn't it?

Even "destruction". What kind of moral being destroys people who don't accept him or worship him? This seems...Evil.


Matthew 13:42: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Revelation 21:8: "But the fearful, and unbelieving ... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."
Revelation 20:13-15: "...hell delivered up the dead which were in them...And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

 
None of those are examples of Satan killing people. The dozen or so people that Satan did kill were perhaps innocent, but are you SERIOUSLY claiming that all of the babies and children killed during the great flood of Noah were not innocent? Or perhaps the children in Sodom and Gomorrah? Surely there must have also been innocent adults among them as well, not even to mention the innocent animals that suffered and died according to the story (everyone forgets the animals).


So Lucifer flooded the world, killing millions and millions of people?
Lucifer ordered the Jews to rape and pillage town after town?
Lucifer destroyed cities with fire and brimstone?
Lucifer blackmailed humanity into worshiping him with the threat of hell if they refused?
Lucifer sadistically tested his worshipers with childish games and evil tricks?

No. 


Why would an omnipotent, all powerful, all knowing all moral God get into a childish bet with Lucifer? It makes no sense. Why would an almighty creator of the universe need to prove himself to Lucifer in a bet? Why do such a thing? Moreover, God being all powerful, could EASILY have proven Lucifer wrong without resorting to some bet or allowing Lucifer to take lives or cause Job suffering and years of misery. God could have just said "let it be that Lucifer sees that Job will remain faithful" without ever actually going through the trials and torture for Job. So it makes no sense, and only shows how it was in fact totally fabricated by a human with a human perspective.




Lucifer means "morning star" and is the Latin form of the name given to Satan. Lucifer meaning "bringer of light".



Man's original purpose was a prospect of peace and harmony with all God's creation? This sentence doesn't even make sense. Humans are anything BUT harmonious with the rest of nature, and it seems pointless for an omnipotent all knowing all present being to do ANYTHING, let alone make a race of creatures to worship him. Omnipotent/Omniscient/Omnipresent beings don't have desires or emotions or anything like this (logically, if they existed, but they don't). An omnipotent being could see any and all circumstances and possible events, and thus this would negate the need of actually doing anything, since the being would already know the outcome.

Liberalismo,

Before I answer these questions and or respond to your admonitions, I wanted to make sure that I'm understanding your position regarding the existence of God and satan.

I'm not sure if you believe in the two. Do you?. Or perhaps you only believe in satan's existence and not God's. What is your take on this?. I really don't want to go any further if you don't believe in their existence. It would only waste my time and yours. Instead, it would be a better conversation and more productive if we were to establish first the Bible's validity and then the existence of God and satan.


GC

[liberalismo]

Liberalismo,

Before I answer these questions and or respond to your admonitions, I wanted to make sure that I'm understanding your position regarding the existence of God and satan.

I'm not sure if you believe in the two. Do you?. Or perhaps you only believe in satan's existence and not God's. What is your take on this?. I really don't want to go any further if you don't believe in their existence. It would only waste my time and yours. Instead, it would be a better conversation and more productive if we were to establish first the Bible's validity and then the existence of God and satan.


GC

It's highly unlikely that God or Satan exist. Almost absolutely they do not.

I think that we do not need to establish the validity of the bible before discussing its contradictions absurdity. We can discuss them in and of themselves, and in and of themselves they dispute the idea that the bible is valid let alone the "word of God".

[Government_Controlled]

It's highly unlikely that God or Satan exist. Almost absolutely they do not.

Well, as least you have doubt. Maybe I can help.

I think that we do not need to establish the validity of the bible before discussing its contradictions absurdity. We can discuss them in and of themselves, and in and of themselves they dispute the idea that the bible is valid let alone the "word of God".

It seems like a reasonable thinking person would except evidence on the contrary. You do sound like a reasonable person. I haven't been able to find these contradictions that people always speak of. Hopefully we will be able to examine this evidence.

GC

[big L dawg]

[liberalismo]

Well, as least you have doubt. Maybe I can help.



It seems like a reasonable thinking person would except evidence on the contrary. You do sound like a reasonable person. I haven't been able to find these contradictions that people always speak of. Hopefully we will be able to examine this evidence.

GC

No, No. I've been through this 1000 times with different people. I point out several, or a dozen or a hundred biblical contradictions. They go through a few and avoid my points or make false claims, I rebut, they respond. This goes on for a few pages until they disappear or keep repeating the same things that I already refuted. It gets tiring.

If you really want to see where the biblical contradictions are (or at least where people claim they are) then google it. If you disagree with them, come up with arguments against them and then google rebuttals to your own arguments against them. And keep doing this. If, at the end, you still believe that there are no contradictions, then we can have a discussion on perhaps 1 big contradiction that I can pick out and that you're totally versed on and educated of.

[laurion]

No, No. I've been through this 1000 times with different people. I point out several, or a dozen or a hundred biblical contradictions. They go through a few and avoid my points or make false claims, I rebut, they respond. This goes on for a few pages until they disappear or keep repeating the same things that I already refuted. It gets tiring.

If you really want to see where the biblical contradictions are (or at least where people claim they are) then google it. If you disagree with them, come up with arguments against them and then google rebuttals to your own arguments against them. And keep doing this. If, at the end, you still believe that there are no contradictions, then we can have a discussion on perhaps 1 big contradiction that I can pick out and that you're totally versed on and educated of.

This seems familiar..... I don't disagree about those obvious contradictions in the bible, however, it's a simple matter of HUMAN error.  God is infallible, we are not and God may or may not have been motivating the writing of the bible but he certainly didn't put pen to paper nor did he later translate it no less than 50 times.

[liberalismo]

This seems familiar..... I don't disagree about those obvious contradictions in the bible, however, it's a simple matter of HUMAN error.  God is infallible, we are not and God may or may not have been motivating the writing of the bible but he certainly didn't put pen to paper nor did he later translate it no less than 50 times.

If God exists (which I believe he does not) the bible has NOTHING to do with him.

[laurion]

If God exists (which I believe he does not) the bible has NOTHING to do with him.

Agreed, but if a person believes that becoming a more spiritually deep person is important than reading the bible is a good road map.  That being said, so is every other spiritually enlightening book re. The Bible, al Qur'an, The Analects, Tao te ching, Upanishads, Veda and finally Arnolds Encyclopedia Of Modern Bodybuilding.