Author Topic: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?  (Read 3749 times)

Hugo Chavez

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what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« on: November 08, 2010, 04:52:17 PM »
I've been told that all my negative conceptions are wrong... Is it actually a good religion that is misunderstood?  what about their leader, louis; is he actually a wise and peaceful person who has been falsely smeared by haters?

24KT

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2010, 05:40:29 PM »
I've been told that all my negative conceptions are wrong... Is it actually a good religion that is misunderstood?  what about their leader, louis; is he actually a wise and peaceful person who has been falsely smeared by haters?

I think such a question would be extremely difficult to answer by those who are not familiar with him.
Most people only know what has been reported about him, but few have ever really listened to him.

For those looking to get a glimpse inside the man, the following videos may be of some assistance.
They might shine a bit of light on the enigma that is Farrakhan.

From the May 9th, 2010 Interview shown on TV One


part 1


part 2:


part 3:


part 4:


part 5:


part 6:


part 7:


part 8:


part 9:


part 10:


part 11:


w

Migs

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2010, 05:56:22 PM »
7.62

Butterbean

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 06:48:43 AM »
I've been told that all my negative conceptions are wrong... Is it actually a good religion that is misunderstood?  what about their leader, louis; is he actually a wise and peaceful person who has been falsely smeared by haters?

I don't know much of anything about the Nation of Islam and Louis Farrakhan but I quickly searched tenets of Nation of Islam and looked at a few of the results.  One site I looked at from www.beliefnet.com stated the following:

What is the Nation of Islam?
Founder: Wallace D. Fard (c. 1877-1934) was a traveling salesman who gathered followers during the Depression among the poverty-stricken African-Americans of Detroit. He mysteriously disappeared in June 1934 and was consequently identified as an incarnation of Allah. Under Elijah Muhammad (1897-1975), Fard's Minister of Islam, and Muhammad's lieutenant Malcolm X (1925-1965), the movement gained international prominence.

Main Tenets: The Nation of Islam's declared aim is the raising of the moral, social, and economic standing of non-whites. This has included the vilification of the dominant group, white Caucasians, even to the point of calling whites the personification of evil and maintaining that the white race is an aberration, the human race having originally been black. Therefore, according to this theory, blacks must pursue separate development. By turning racist ideas around to oppose whites, the movement has attracted many adherents and has had particularly good success in converting prisoners, criminals, and drug users. Black Muslims have financed the construction of mosques, schools, apartment complexes, stores, and farms.

History: Elijah Muhammad taught that American blacks, a group that includes all people of color, were descended from the ancient tribe of Shabazz that had originally settled the holy city of Mecca, and that blacks and whites can share no real community. Malcolm X was his closest collaborator until a quarrel between the two men in 1964. Malcolm X then went on a pilgrimage to Mecca, where he saw people of every race worshiping side by side, and he became convinced of the hopelessness of racism. He returned to the United States and founded the Organization of Afro-American Unity, which preached black nationalism but not black separatism. He was shot and killed while speaking to a large gathering in New York City in 1965. After Elijah Muhammad's death in 1975, his son Warith Deen Muhammad radically transformed the Black Muslim movement, opening it to whites and renaming it the American Muslim Mission. In 1979, Louis Farrakhan broke away from the Mission, establishing the more radical Nation of Islam, which restricts membership to blacks and advocates a separate black social structure.




I'm not sure if that website would be considered fair and balanced so I also looked here:

http://www.islamfortoday.com/nationofislam.htm


And was surprised to see that Islam and the Nation of Islam are somewhat at odds w/each otherr.


What's in a name? - The Problem with the "Nation of Islam"
A court ruling overturning a fifteen year British ban on its leader, Louis Farrakhan, has propelled the so-called Nation of Islam into the headlines.  Michael Young examines the Islamic credentials of these self-styled "Muslims."

The Fundamentals of Islamic Belief
One could be forgiven for assuming that any group with the word Islam in its title would be Muslim.  But when it comes to the group calling itself the "Nation of Islam", one must be very wary indeed.  To be Muslim means to hold certain fundamental theological beliefs.  The Muslim profession of faith is:

"I bear witness that there is no god but God, and I bear witness that Mohammed is a prophet of God."

To elaborate on these statements, to be a Muslim means to believe that God is One, unique.  He has no partners, no associates, no Son, nor did He ever become incarnate.  As chapter 112 of the Quran makes clear:

"He is God, the only One,
God the Everlasting.
He did not beget and is not begotten,
And none is His equal."

In Islam the ascribing of partners to God, referred to as shirk, is the greatest of all sins.  The Quran states explicitly in chapter 4, verse 36:

"Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him."

Secondly, Muslims believe Mohammed  to have been the "Seal" or last of the prophets.  To recognize anyone after Mohammed  claiming to be a prophet, negates one's Islam.  As is stated in the Quran:

"O people! Mohammed has no sons among ye men, but verily, he is the Messenger of Allah and the last in the line of Prophets. And Allah is aware of everything." (33:40)

This is reinforced by various sayings of Prophet Mohammed :

"The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me." (Bukhari)

"In My Ummah, there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals), each of whom will claim to be a prophet, But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me."  (Abu Dawood, at-Tirmidhi)

The Errant Theology of the "Nation of Islam"
The "Nation of Islam" does not adhere to these core tenets of Islamic theology.  They believe that God appeared on earth in the person of their founder, a "great man from the East", Master W. Fard Muhammad, a preacher who first came to public attention in the USA on July 4, 1930 then mysteriously "departed the scene" on February 26, 1934.  As the NOI website unambiguously declares:

"WE BELIEVE that Allah (God) appeared in the Person of Master W. Fard Muhammad, July, 1930; the long-awaited "Messiah" of the Christians and the "Mahdi" of the Muslims."

In 1934 following the unexplained departure of the "Master", the organization he founded came to be headed by one Elijah Poole, who became known as the Honorable Elijah Muhammad.  Until very recently, the "Nation of Islam" accorded the status of prophet to Elijah Muhammad.

Therefore it is clear that despite their name and calling themselves Muslims, "Nation of Islam" beliefs about God and prophethood are glaringly incompatible with Islam.

   
Louis Farrakhan, current leader of the Nation of Islam, finally allowed to enter the UK after a court orders the lifting of a 15-year government ban.
 "Honorable" Elijah Muhammad, the "prophet" of the Nation of Islam.
 "Master" W. Fard Muhammad in whose person God appeared in early 1930's America, according to Nation of Islam beliefs.
 

Racist ideology also at odds with universal Islam
A third area of non-compliance with Islam, and the one which receives by far the greatest attention in the secular media, is the issue of race.  The present "Nation of Islam" leader, Louis Farrakhan, is on record as having made objectionable anti-Jewish (as distinct from anti-Zionist) remarks.  Among other unfortunate utterances, he is alleged to have referred to Judaism as a "gutter religion".

Moreover, the NOI is a segregationalist organization exclusively for black people descended from slaves.  Proper Islam is a universal religion open to people of every race.  Muslims are supposed to differentiate between people on the basis not of ethnic origin but of piety and upright behavior.  As the Quran makes clear:

"And mankind is naught but a single nation." Holy Quran 2:213

"O Mankind! Most certainly, it is We (God almighty) who have Created you all from a single (pair) of a male and a female, And it is We who have made you into nations and tribes, that ye may recognize each other.  Verily, the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you." Holy Quran 49:13

And in his final sermon, Prophet Mohammed  made clear that racism has no place in Islam:

"O people! Verily your Lord is one and your father is one. All of you belong to one ancestry of Adam and Adam was created out of clay. There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab and for a non-Arab over an Arab; nor for white over the black nor for the black over the white except in piety. Verily the noblest among you is he who is the most pious."

In contrast, the NOI has a pronounced anti-white bias.  They refer to blacks as God's chosen people and Caucasians as white devils.  They call for a separate homeland for American blacks, for racially segregated education and for a ban on interracial marriage.  To quote again from their website:

We believe we are the people of God's choice.

WE BELIEVE this is the time in history for the separation of the so-called Negroes and the so-called white Americans.

We want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves, to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their own--either on this continent or elsewhere.

We want all black children educated, taught and trained by their own teachers.

We believe that intermarriage or race mixing should be prohibited.

Fellow Muslims with eyes the bluest of blue and skin the whitest of white...
Former NOI members who recognized anti-white racism as folly and converted to proper Islam include Malcolm X and the world champion heavyweight boxer, Muhammad Ali.  Both spoke out on the subject:

"[The Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca] was an exhilarating experience to see people belonging to different colors, races and nationalities, kings, heads of states and ordinary men from very poor countries all clad in two simple white sheets praying to God without any sense of either pride or inferiority. It was a practical manifestation of the concept of equality in Islam." Muhammed Ali

"During the past eleven days here in the Muslim world, I have eaten from the same plate, drunk from the same glass, and slept in the same bed (or on the same rug) -- while praying to the same God -- with fellow Muslims, whose eyes were the bluest of blue, whose hair was the blondest of blond, and whose skin was the whitest of white. And in the words and in the actions and in the deeds of the 'white' Muslims, I felt the same sincerity that I felt among the black African Muslims of Nigeria, Sudan and Ghana."

"We were truly all the same -- because their belief in the one God had removed the 'white' from their minds, the 'white' from their behavior, and the 'white' from their attitude."

"This religion recognizes all men as brothers. It accepts all human beings as equals before God, and as equal members in the Human Family of Mankind. I totally reject Elijah Muhammad's racist philosophy, which he has labeled 'Islam' only to fool and misuse gullible people as he fooled and misused me. But I blame only myself, and no one else for the fool that I was, and the harm that my evangelical foolishness on his behalf has done to others."  Malcolm X

Any areas of common ground between Islam and the "Nation of Islam"?
Despite the major negatives, there are some elements of NOI beliefs with which Muslims can more or less agree:  For example:

WE BELIEVE In the One God whose proper Name is Allah.

WE BELIEVE in the Holy Qur'an and in the Scriptures of all the Prophets of God.

WE BELIEVE in Allah's Prophets and the Scriptures they brought to the people.

WE BELIEVE our women should be respected and protected as the women of other nationalities are respected and protected.

And there is much on the practical side of the NOI which we can admire.  The NOI prohibits among its members drinking, smoking and gambling.  They are also known for their social work among the black community and their often successful efforts to raise levels of self-discipline and self-confidence in a community which has suffered from historical injustice and its debilitating long-term social and psychological effects often manifested in nihilistic, violent, drug-ridden American inner city and housing project ghettos and characterized by family breakdown including a high illegitimate birth rate.

Whither the "Nation of Islam"?
Laudable as the lifestyle espoused by the NOI may be, one cannot escape the fact that despite some of the trappings of Islam, the theology and ideology they currently espouse are not only non-Islamic but actually anathema to Islam.  There are, however, some signs that things may be changing for the better. 

On the death of Elijah Mohammed in 1976 his son Wallace D. Muhammad (now known as Imam Warrithuddin Mohammed) assumed NOI leadership, renamed the organization the Muslim American Society and steered it toward Islamic orthodoxy.  After three years a disgruntled Louis Farrakhan broke away and re-founded the NOI in line with the teachings of Elijah Mohammed.  But in February this year, Farrakhan, recovering from a serious battle with prostate cancer which may have given him cause to reflect, shared a platform with Wallace and made an important move toward mainstream Islam by declaring:

"Allah sent Mohammed  with the final revelation to the world. ... There is no prophet after the Prophet Mohammed , and no book after the Koran."

Let us hope that similarly orthodox statements on the nature of God and on race will also soon be forthcoming.  Let us look forward to the day when Louis Farrakhan and his NOI follow the example of their former colleague, Malcolm X, who eventually found his way from the so-called "Nation of Islam" to genuine Islam and stated:

"I declare emphatically that I am no longer in Elijah Muhammad's 'strait jacket', and I don't intend to replace his with one woven by someone else. I am a Muslim in the most orthodox sense; my religion is Islam as it is believed in and practiced by the Muslims in the Holy City of Mecca."  Alhamdulillah.

Allahu a`lam. God knows best.

© 2001 IslamForToday.com





Now, I don't know what kind of credentials these sites have but maybe since Jag (and maybe some others here) seem to know about the Nation of Islam they would be willing to do one of those Learning Threads on it that we used to do where people could ask questions and the teacher (Jag and others) could answer?

R

loco

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2010, 07:13:27 AM »
I think such a question would be extremely difficult to answer by those who are not familiar with him.
Most people only know what has been reported about him, but few have ever really listened to him.

For those looking to get a glimpse inside the man, the following videos may be of some assistance.
They might shine a bit of light on the enigma that is Farrakhan.


 ::)

loco

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2010, 07:26:36 AM »
I posted this in another board, but 24KT/JaguarScams cried to the mods and for some reason the mods caved and deleted my post.    >:(

Louis Farrakhan (born Louis Eugene Walcott; May 11, 1933) is the National Representative of the Nation of Islam.

Nation of Islam Core Beliefs:

God:  Wallace D. Fard came as God incarnate (God is man)
Muhammad:  Elijah Muhammad is the prophet to tell about incarnation of Fard
Race:  The original black race of man is superior, especially to the white man: a race of "blue-eyed devils" created by the black man
Creation:  Black scientists created the plan which repeats every 25,000 years
Qur'an:  Black scientists created and revealed the Bible and the Qur'an

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nation_of_Islam#Comparison_with_traditional_Islam

Hugo Chavez

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 08:31:10 AM »
great idea, a learning thread about 3 conmen and a con... :-X  Then maybe someone could start threads about rock and wall worship... I've always wondered about that... not....

Butterbean

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2010, 10:23:42 AM »
I posted this in another board, but 24KT/JaguarScams cried to the mods and for some reason the mods caved and deleted my post.    >:(

Louis Farrakhan (born Louis Eugene Walcott; May 11, 1933) is the National Representative of the Nation of Islam.

Nation of Islam Core Beliefs:

God:  Wallace D. Fard came as God incarnate (God is man)
Muhammad:  Elijah Muhammad is the prophet to tell about incarnation of Fard
Race:  The original black race of man is superior, especially to the white man: a race of "blue-eyed devils" created by the black man
Creation:  Black scientists created the plan which repeats every 25,000 years
Qur'an:  Black scientists created and revealed the Bible and the Qur'an

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nation_of_Islam#Comparison_with_traditional_Islam

They do seem very different...Seems like they wouldn't use Islam in their name but I guess other belief systems do the same...for instance Christian Science = not Christian etc.
R

Migs

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 03:14:45 PM »
7.62

exactly why I posted the size of bullett that should be in them.


what? too honest?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 04:51:19 PM »
exactly why I posted the size of bullett that should be in them.


what? too honest?
maybe a little to much ;D  I wouldn't want that.  It might just give a complete nutcase martyr status and give him an even a bigger dingbat following than he already had.

Migs

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 04:59:49 PM »
they can get they rest of the hail storm of hot lead

Hugo Chavez

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2010, 06:39:10 PM »
they can get they rest of the hail storm of hot lead
lol... no comment ;D

CC973

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2010, 12:38:45 PM »
I have always held Minister Farrakhan in very high regards.  His work speaks for itself.  He is much more than just your typical preacher.  If you look at those men and women who are members of the Nation of Islam you will see a group that is very disciplined in the way they carry themselves.  His knowledge, wisdom, and understanding of all scripture, not just the Quran,  is pretty amazing.  The beliefs of the Nation under Minister Farrakhan have also evolved to move closer towards orthodox Islam.  Most of the differences really have to do with some of the language used and the meaning getting twisted.  As far as him being a racist or preaching hate,  that is simply not true.   His words have often been harsh,  which he admits, but it is not coming from a place of hate for any people or religion. He is often just as hard on other blacks than he might be on white people or jews.

I grew up in the church and he teaches Jesus better than most Christian preachers.

CC973

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2010, 12:39:43 PM »
.


loco

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Re: what's your opinion of the Nation of Islam and louis farrakhan?
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2010, 01:39:08 PM »
If you look at those men and women who are members of the Nation of Islam you will see a group that is very disciplined in the way they carry themselves.  

Elijah Muhammad, leader of the Nation of Islam from 1934 until his death in 1975, fathered children out of wedlock and used the organization's funds to support the mothers and their children.

I grew up in the church and he teaches Jesus better than most Christian preachers.

How so exactly?