Chiropractic Dangers

[Moosejay]

Thank you for the response doc and sorry about the tiff we had before. 

No problemo, big guy. All good in the hood.

[Moosejay]

Going over my posts, I think i may have been a bit too harsh on your profession. I think conservative therapy is quite effective for ACUTE problems. However, chronic manipulations is plain "quackery." I would also like to admit that yes MDs make may mistakes. However, it is just stupidity to state that MDs make much more mistakes than chiropracters. You can look at the NFL, NBA, NHL, and all competitive NCAA programs. All of their sport medicine doctors are real doctors (usuallly orthopods), not one chiropracter. Although chiropracters work with these teams, they work UNDER the guidance of MDs. The problem with chiropracters is that you guys manipulate and mislead the general public. Your profession is not based on science, as defined by evidence based medicine. There is nothing wrong with SOME techniques of your profession, but the MAJORITY of your profession is just plain BULLSHIT. You know it and I know it. You can peddle your bullshit as much as you want, but at the end of the day you have to ask yourself if making money of other people's misery is worth the money. Money will come and go but your legacy of bullshit will smell forever. The only purpose of this thread to make aware to the general public that may be mislead by your crap. Clearly your defensive posts by you and your colleagues reiterates your insecurity and guilt of your profession. To others, do you really want to place your Central Nervous System on an individual that believes scientific research is "jazz."


cheers,

bodybuildermdpitt

I have no insecurity. I am at the end of my career, at peace at how many I have helped and money I have made.

In CT, as a chiropractor, I have point of access to patients, can order all blood tests, urine, EMG, CT, MRI with without contrast...all tests and diagnostic studies. The state license says I am a "Physician".

But I don't get caught up in this shit. You do. And because of that, your patients(if you have any) will smell your 'Ivory Tower' attitude, and you will Fail.

Young man, understand this:

MANY , MANY of all types of doctors DO NOT MAKE IT.

I have. And I am about done.

What about you?

Think of all those loans you must pay back.

The years of incredible overhead you will pay.

Fucking your office manager, your second wife divorcing you.

Are you ready for the public dole?

I hope your country has a Government cheese program.

Dr. Moosejay Approved

[CoolDuck]

Well, you are mediocre and must expect failuer in your life if you cannot believe success.

HTH

All clinicians who see a lot of patients experience adverse effects in some patients during or after treatment. This has nothing to do with mediocracy but with the imprecise nature of diagnoses and treatments as well as unforseable interaction between treatment and some parameter in the patient. This makes it hard to believe that you never have seen adverse effects.

CD

[Brutal_1]

What's the difference between a doctor and God?




God doesn't think he's a doctor    BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

[Moosejay]

Even you have to admit there are way more bad doctors and doctors who are in it just to make money than there are bad chiropractors.  My uncle just two weeks ago spent 9 days in the hospital with pain in his middle area.  Doctors said it was a kidney stone.  So they gave him medicine and said it would pass.  Then they said it was a ruptured L2.  Well after 9 days of not getting out of bed he called another guy who did acupuncture massage therapy.  In 90 minutes my uncle get up out of bed and told everyone to fuck off and left the hospital.  Now he feels better than he has in months.  Doctors are in it for the money and really don't care much about the patient  My personal experiences suck with doctors.  Very incompetent and money hungry.  I waited for one in his office for almost 4 hours.  Once I got into his office I spent literally 37 seconds and he said he couldn't do anything (lymphodema(?) lower right leg)  I later got a bill for $304.  I called him and told his nurse to tell him to fuck off and if he wanted to come after me for the money then sue me.  I would love to expose him.  I never heard back from him.  I truly think doctors are jealous of chiropractors cause they do take business away from them.  But doctors are crooks so they will just charge someone else.

Much of it stems from this

[Moosejay]

All clinicians who see a lot of patients experience adverse effects in some patients during or after treatment. This has nothing to do with mediocracy but with the imprecise nature of diagnoses and treatments as well as unforseable interaction between treatment and some parameter in the patient. This makes it hard to believe that you never have seen adverse effects.

CD

Of course there are adverse effects. I even tell them there will be increased soreness. I have NEVER heard of a colleague's pt stroking out, or had any of mine stroke out.

[Necrosis]

moosejay you keep misinterpreting the fact that botched medical precedures are a symptom of a poor doctor not of the medical field, as i would suggest chiropractors complaints stem.

however, medicine is evidence based and has built itself on science and has mounds of evidence for its procedures. Chiropractic care has little evidence and a search of pubmed reveals it may be useless.

[dr.chimps]

moosejay you keep misinterpreting the fact that botched medical precedures are a symptom of a poor doctor not of the medical field, as i would suggest chiropractors complaints stem.

however, medicine is evidence based and has built itself on science and has mounds of evidence for its procedures. Chiropractic care has little evidence and a search of pubmed reveals it may be useless.

Ok. I'll play Devil's Advocate and point out that the AMA and it's relationship to medical malpractice is akin to police departments and 'internal investigations' - almost a forgone conclusion as to outcome.      

[bodybuildermdpitt]

I have no insecurity. I am at the end of my career, at peace at how many I have helped and money I have made.

In CT, as a chiropractor, I have point of access to patients, can order all blood tests, urine, EMG, CT, MRI with without contrast...all tests and diagnostic studies. The state license says I am a "Physician".

But I don't get caught up in this shit. You do. And because of that, your patients(if you have any) will smell your 'Ivory Tower' attitude, and you will Fail.

Young man, understand this:

MANY , MANY of all types of doctors DO NOT MAKE IT.

I have. And I am about done.

What about you?

Think of all those loans you must pay back.

The years of incredible overhead you will pay.

Fucking your office manager, your second wife divorcing you.

Are you ready for the public dole?

I hope your country has a Government cheese program.

Dr. Moosejay Approved

First of all please address me by my proper title which is doctor, and I will address you by your proper title which is bullshitter. Mr. Bullshitter, I am not here to argue about my age or my credentials, I am here to argue about science, but talking to you is talking to a wall, since YOU DON'T PRACTICE SCIENCE. The most funny thing is that you can not come up with one scientific paper to support your chronic adjustments. You refer to scientific research as "Jazz." When you get sick, which you will Mr. Bullshitter, and you will come to me for help, I will help you. I have the knowledge and the training that you desperately seek. However, the wait to see me is at least 3 months, because I am that busy. You will take out your checkbook and beg and cry, and offer to give me your entire bank account to help you. However, I am sorry, but I make that much in one day, and quite frankly money doesn't motivate me (like you Mr. Bullshitter), it is the advancement of science and the need to actually help people. I can only physically operate 3 days a week, and I also need to live a life.  As you sit there in pain for 3 months, then you will know and understand the pain and suffering your profession willingly places on other people for your own sick and private benefits. The difference between you and me is that I cure this type of pain, while you CAUSE AND EXPLOIT this pain for the mighty $$$. I hope you enjoy your future and sleep well at night.

[shiftedShapes]

Just as much as alerting people to anyone who was doing harm in any type of profession.

yes.  I'm just pointing out that criticism can be productive, and dismissing it as hating may endear you to urban adolescents but it is not a very convincing counter-argument.

[Disgusted]

I have a clinical question I am thinking of researching with a colleague of mine. It deals with neck readjustments and CVAs (strokes).  Have any of you guys had chronic neck readjustments from chiropractors? If so, what was the reason, and does it help? Also, did the chiropractor read any images for you, and try to diagnose you from his interpretation of the images? I am trying to start a study (obviously it is in its very early inception), as of now I am trying to get some basic brain storming ideas.

cheers,

bodybuildingmdpitt

 

Damn bro, I am surprised that you came on Getbig Gossip board to "ask a clinical question"  Pretty obvious that you had another agenda and want to stir up shit. I am beginning to think that you are a gimmick poster. In fact, I kind of hope that you are, since I know of no Dr's (and I know a few) who would waste their time to come on Getbig when they are soooooo busy as you say you are.

I can bore you with many personal stories that I know of how Dr's have cost or almost cost people their lives with misdiagnoses that should have been VERY easy to catch. You act like it is an epidemic with chiropractors causing strokes. The medical industry is quickly becoming a joke due to over prescribing of deadly pharmaceutical drugs put out by greedy drug companies and they are making the Dr's into nothing more than legal drug pushers.

There's an old saying that you may have heard, but it is worth repeating here. You know what they call a Dr who graduated last in his class?  Doctor. 

[onlyme]

I also think doctors are jealous of chiroprators cause they spend less money becoming a chiropractor than a doctor does.  A doctor is so in debt by the time they actually get to start making money that it is stressful. 

[Necrosis]

I also think doctors are jealous of chiroprators cause they spend less money becoming a chiropractor than a doctor does.  A doctor is so in debt by the time they actually get to start making money that it is stressful. 

is there something wrong with you? most doctors are not in it to make money and my peers rarely complain about money, you're off target my friend. No one is jealous of a profession with no scientific backing nor evidence for its treatments.

[240 is Back]

No problemo, big guy. All good in the hood.

Which Connecticut hood are you from?

[Moosejay]

First of all please address me by my proper title which is doctor, and I will address you by your proper title which is bullshitter. Mr. Bullshitter, I am not here to argue about my age or my credentials, I am here to argue about science, but talking to you is talking to a wall, since YOU DON'T PRACTICE SCIENCE. The most funny thing is that you can not come up with one scientific paper to support your chronic adjustments. You refer to scientific research as "Jazz." When you get sick, which you will Mr. Bullshitter, and you will come to me for help, I will help you. I have the knowledge and the training that you desperately seek. However, the wait to see me is at least 3 months, because I am that busy. You will take out your checkbook and beg and cry, and offer to give me your entire bank account to help you. However, I am sorry, but I make that much in one day, and quite frankly money doesn't motivate me (like you Mr. Bullshitter), it is the advancement of science and the need to actually help people. I can only physically operate 3 days a week, and I also need to live a life.  As you sit there in pain for 3 months, then you will know and understand the pain and suffering your profession willingly places on other people for your own sick and private benefits. The difference between you and me is that I cure this type of pain, while you CAUSE AND EXPLOIT this pain for the mighty $$$. I hope you enjoy your future and sleep well at night.

The Yale MD's who I treat see me without a wait.

Hope this helps!

[Moosejay]

is there something wrong with you? most doctors are not in it to make money and my peers rarely complain about money, you're off target my friend. No one is jealous of a profession with no scientific backing nor evidence for its treatments.

You,sir, have smoked way too much pole!

[Moosejay]

Which Connecticut hood are you from?

New Haven/Hamden

[TacoBell]

Damn bro, I am surprised that you came on Getbig Gossip board to "ask a clinical question"  Pretty obvious that you had another agenda and want to stir up shit. I am beginning to think that you are a gimmick poster. In fact, I kind of hope that you are, since I know of no Dr's (and I know a few) who would waste their time to come on Getbig when they are soooooo busy as you say you are.

I can bore you with many personal stories that I know of how Dr's have cost or almost cost people their lives with misdiagnoses that should have been VERY easy to catch. You act like it is an epidemic with chiropractors causing strokes. The medical industry is quickly becoming a joke due to over prescribing of deadly pharmaceutical drugs put out by greedy drug companies and they are making the Dr's into nothing more than legal drug pushers.

There's an old saying that you may have heard, but it is worth repeating here. You know what they call a Dr who graduated last in his class?  Doctor. 

Good post

[Brutal_1]

is there something wrong with you? most doctors are not in it to make money and my peers rarely complain about money, you're off target my friend. No one is jealous of a profession with no scientific backing nor evidence for its treatments.

LMAO!!!

Sorry, gotta disagree with you here my friend.  Speaking from personal experience, i'd say that 95% of physicians are in it for the prestige, the RESPECT, the title......and oh yeah, the MONEY!!!!  

If this were really true, and if doctors were in it for really helping people, than I doubt most of them would be some of the worst, most selfish, back-stabbing people I've ever met    

You don't have to be a brain surgeon to HELP SOMEONE (which is supposedly why they're all docs, right), when you can start with first having common manners, most of which lack or feel they are above.

[The ChemistV2]

To me at least, it seems that many Chiropractors seem to be aware of the relationship between nutrition, lifestyle and pathology. Most, not all, MDs never seem to address these issues. Many people have disorders that came about from years of poor eating, stress, lack of exercise, nutritional deficiencies. Instead of addressing these problems, the MD will precribe a DRUG or offer surgery as the solution. When fat kids drinking tons of soda and eating buckets of sugar a day suddenly get diabetes, they're put on Insulin for life. No one ever thinks about maybe changing the kids diet so eventually his pancreas starts functioning properly again. Whatever problem some one has, a drug is prescribed.  Eventually more disorders arise from the side effects of the drug. At least some Chiropractors have the common sense to try to see if the persons dietary or lifestyle habits have contributed to the person's illness. That's not so foolish if you ask me. Also if someone's vertebrae is out of whack, what's so bad about having it adjusted? 

[Brutal_1]

To me at least, it seems that many Chiropractors seem to be aware of the relationship between nutrition, lifestyle and pathology. Most, not all, MDs never seem to address these issues. Many people have disorders that came about from years of poor eating, stress, lack of exercise, nutritional deficiencies. Instead of addressing these problems, the MD will precribe a DRUG or offer surgery as the solution. When fat kids drinking tons of soda and eating buckets of sugar a day suddenly get diabetes, they're put on Insulin for life. No one ever thinks about maybe changing the kids diet so eventually his pancreas starts functioning properly again. Whatever problem some one has, a drug is prescribed.  Eventually more disorders arise from the side effects of the drug. At least some Chiropractors have the common sense to try to see if the persons dietary or lifestyle habits have contributed to the person's illness. That's not so foolish if you ask me. Also if someone's vertebrae is out of whack, what's so bad about having it adjusted? 

That's a good point!  Of course it's up to the individual, but on average, MD's don't know crap about nutrition!  Which is really a huge surprise for me considering more than half of the top ten killers in the US being related to nutrition/lifestyle.

Med school is 4 years, and of that four years, about two days worth of lectures are on nutrition...that's it 

[Moosejay]

To me at least, it seems that many Chiropractors seem to be aware of the relationship between nutrition, lifestyle and pathology. Most, not all, MDs never seem to address these issues. Many people have disorders that came about from years of poor eating, stress, lack of exercise, nutritional deficiencies. Instead of addressing these problems, the MD will precribe a DRUG or offer surgery as the solution. When fat kids drinking tons of soda and eating buckets of sugar a day suddenly get diabetes, they're put on Insulin for life. No one ever thinks about maybe changing the kids diet so eventually his pancreas starts functioning properly again. Whatever problem some one has, a drug is prescribed.  Eventually more disorders arise from the side effects of the drug. At least some Chiropractors have the common sense to try to see if the persons dietary or lifestyle habits have contributed to the person's illness. That's not so foolish if you ask me. Also if someone's vertebrae is out of whack, what's so bad about having it adjusted? 

As always, Chem, your words ring true

[Epic_Monster]

You,sir, have smoked way too much pole!

HAHA good one Moose.

[onlyme]

is there something wrong with you? most doctors are not in it to make money and my peers rarely complain about money, you're off target my friend. No one is jealous of a profession with no scientific backing nor evidence for its treatments.

You are wrong.  Just take it when a doctor won't see a patient without insurance (or hospital).  Or how they gouge the insurance companies.  How they make you go into the office for literally 3 minutes and charge you $140+ just to get a presrciption.  Very few and I mean very few doctors do anything unless there is money involved.  Until from 1976 till 1998 (when I got bit) I had been to a doctor 3 times (once in 1983 when I ruptured my L4 and L5, once in 1993 when I ruptured my achilles tendon and again around 1997 or so when I got a BB taken out of my finger I had in there since 1978 or so).  I hate doctors.  But since my bie I have had to go quite a few times. 

[Dragon]

To me at least, it seems that many Chiropractors seem to be aware of the relationship between nutrition, lifestyle and pathology. Most, not all, MDs never seem to address these issues. Many people have disorders that came about from years of poor eating, stress, lack of exercise, nutritional deficiencies. Instead of addressing these problems, the MD will precribe a DRUG or offer surgery as the solution. When fat kids drinking tons of soda and eating buckets of sugar a day suddenly get diabetes, they're put on Insulin for life. No one ever thinks about maybe changing the kids diet so eventually his pancreas starts functioning properly again. Whatever problem some one has, a drug is prescribed.  Eventually more disorders arise from the side effects of the drug. At least some Chiropractors have the common sense to try to see if the persons dietary or lifestyle habits have contributed to the person's illness. That's not so foolish if you ask me. Also if someone's vertebrae is out of whack, what's so bad about having it adjusted? 

actually thats wrong info...
in Harrison's book of Internal Medicine the first treatment for that kind of kid would be lifestyle modification and drugs+insulin comes last, i don't know what kind of doctor your talking about , just stating the facts...