Chiropractic Dangers

[bodybuildermdpitt]

seriously though, could you share why it is you feel this way about chiropractors?  Was there a specific incident or did you lose a ff to a chiropractor, what?

A patient of mine who clearly needed colon resection secondary to UC, but her bullshit chiropracter told her that changing her diet, colonics, with spinal manipulation will cure her.

explain that to me.

[Necrosis]

Really you are being pretty harsh on this subject.  I think he is right that someone would need continued care when they are always pushing the body.  I was always sceptical of chiros before,  But the things they seek to do makes logical sense to me.

With MDs it is either drugs or surgery for the treatment, really they are just buying time and amusing thier patients with drugs till the body heals itself in most cases.  Some of the surgical procedures are done very prematurely without trying alternatives, once they fuse your spine there is no going back.  From what I understand the goal of chiro is to get your body working 100% by itself by opening up the entire CNS and having it working with out any bottlenecks.

not true, all chronic conditions are incurable by the body, it is the bodies failed attempt at cure that creates the symptoms. In some disease the organic cause can be epiphenominal to an abstract entity such as thought patterns.

[bodybuildermdpitt]

Really you are being pretty harsh on this subject.  I think he is right that someone would need continued care when they are always pushing the body.  I was always sceptical of chiros before,  But the things they seek to do makes logical sense to me.

With MDs it is either drugs or surgery for the treatment, really they are just buying time and amusing thier patients with drugs till the body heals itself in most cases.  Some of the surgical procedures are done very prematurely without trying alternatives, once they fuse your spine there is no going back.  From what I understand the goal of chiro is to get your body working 100% by itself by opening up the entire CNS and having it working with out any bottlenecks.

I am really not trying to be harsh. BUT THAT IS BULLSHIT. Keep on getting spinal adjustments and YOU WILL get a subluxation, and then you will feel REAL PAIN, and potential loss of bowel and urinary continence. I do not want to see you in my office for bowel incontinence due to these idiots. I am being harsh, but there is not other word to describe this profession. Honestly, arguing with these guys is like arguing with psychics. They know it is bullshit, I know it is bullshit, but they don't want their cash cow to die. I have nothing to gain by exposing these idiots, but if I can prevent one individual from going to these idiots, then these 3 minutes was worth it.

 

[brent2741]

Well, that is the nature of conventional medicine, these days, too. 

so what is the number of minutes you need to spend with a patient to give sound "conventional medicine" since you seem to be so well versed?

[Brutal_1]

chiropractic medicine is not evidence based for the most part but medicine in inherently intuitive, look at psychiatry. Polypharmacy and shotgun approachs are examples of partly intuitive practices, it is my problem when medicine is based on mostly intuitive practice and has to much individuality to allow for varied care. I have seen total body modification, vials of substances placed on the body, other retarded practices done by chiros on me. Claiming to cure allergies etc... all bullshit.

you can treat with spinal manipulations, but diseases of organ systems etc you cannot, how can you call yourself a doctor if you cannot treat multiiple aliments and offer some assitance for a wide variance of disease?

I was referring to the guy who started this thread with the single purpose of mocking chiropractors

[Brutal_1]

After 4 years of undergrad, 4 of medical school, 10 (yes 10 years) years of residency, I became a doctor. I am a GI surgeon and you would not believe how many patients ask me solutions about the problems caused by you guys. STROKES, yes STROKES, caused by you guys is the new epidemic. Nothing irritates me more than planned and manipulative idiocy, perpetuated by your profession. Like the "electromagnetic" bullshit of the early 20th century, your bullshit is next. Do yourself a favor, take the MCATs and become a real doctor.

whoa, take it easy there...you and smoked pole got it all wrong.  Where did I say I was a chiropractor?!

Actually, i'm also an allopath...an allopath who appreciates our osteopathic, chiropractic, naturopathic brothers, but I guess my MPH doesn't allow me to consider medicine so confined and one sided. 

[Brutal_1]

md's who do not embrace CAM to some degree will be left behind imo. Healthcare without prevention, nutrition, supplementation, stress control, counselling etc and just remedial measures is sorely lacking, hence people looking for alternatives. Alot of drugs suck.

I agree....I'm just curious why you always post with so much medical jargain, it reads like a damn term paper    Trying to impress anyone, or do you forget that not everyone on this board is an MD/DO?   

It's getbig, not studentdoctor...lighten up 

[Brutal_1]

A patient of mine who clearly needed colon resection secondary to UC, but her bullshit chiropracter told her that changing her diet, colonics, with spinal manipulation will cure her.

explain that to me.

That's it?!?!

That's what put you out?!  You've got to be kidding me, you're on a mission against chiropractors because one of them gave one of your pts bad advice???   

If you're ticked off about bad advice, why don't you go after personal trainers...you know how many PT's give out "medical advice", cause they're such experts 

[Brutal_1]

so what is the number of minutes you need to spend with a patient to give sound "conventional medicine" since you seem to be so well versed?

physical exam plus HPI in under 6 minutes...

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[warrior_code]

After 4 years of undergrad, 4 of medical school, 10 (yes 10 years) years of residency, I became a doctor. I am a GI surgeon and you would not believe how many patients ask me solutions about the problems caused by you guys. STROKES, yes STROKES, caused by you guys is the new epidemic. Nothing irritates me more than planned and manipulative idiocy, perpetuated by your profession. Like the "electromagnetic" bullshit of the early 20th century, your bullshit is next. Do yourself a favor, take the MCATs and become a real doctor.

Why is it that most MD's will always be sure to let their patients know of the dangers of a stroke when going to a chiropractor, but not to the hair salon?    Be sure to let them know that only 1 in 20 million patients will get a stroke as a result of neck adjustments.

[warrior_code]

That's it?!?!

That's what put you out?!  You've got to be kidding me, you're on a mission against chiropractors because one of them gave one of your pts bad advice???   

If you're ticked off about bad advice, why don't you go after personal trainers...you know how many PT's give out "medical advice", cause they're such experts 

In the future I hope chiro is not classified as alternative medicine, I have a feeling md's will not have a vendetta against it if this occurs.  I will say there are many chiro's out there who continually bash conventional medicine(saying all drugs are bad for you ect.) and come off sounding no different then someone claiming a few needles put in a body can cure cancer.  If the research in the future backs chiro(it looks like it will) then md's and chiros should work side by side to give patients optimal treatment.     

[TacoBell]

Going over my posts, I think i may have been a bit too harsh on your profession. I think conservative therapy is quite effective for ACUTE problems. However, chronic manipulations is plain "quackery."

Good point, I should probably tell my dad to stop taking the BP meds he was prescribed as his blood pressure is down now. 

[Brutal_1]

Good point, I should probably tell my dad to stop taking the BP meds he was prescribed as his blood pressure is down now. 

or maybe have him lay off the TACO BELL 

[Necrosis]

I agree....I'm just curious why you always post with so much medical jargain, it reads like a damn term paper    Trying to impress anyone, or do you forget that not everyone on this board is an MD/DO?   

It's getbig, not studentdoctor...lighten up 

meh i frequent some more advanced boards and when talking about medicine i tend to use proper terminology. if you look at some of my earlier posts i was one of the worst kinds of trolls. I certainly am not trying to impress anyone on this site, i just talk like that alot. Its actually a problem i forsee during patient intake, as i tend to use jargon as simple explanations make me feel like something is missing. I like to have questions answered with evidence and reasoning, not simple anecdotes. Geuss thats were it comes from.

[Brutal_1]

meh i frequent some more advanced boards and when talking about medicine i tend to use proper terminology. if you look at some of my earlier posts i was one of the worst kinds of trolls. I certainly am not trying to impress anyone on this site, i just talk like that alot. Its actually a problem i forsee during patient intake, as i tend to use jargon as simple explanations make me feel like something is missing. I like to have questions answered with evidence and reasoning, not simple anecdotes. Geuss thats were it comes from.

gotcha, I guess that's why they're stepping up the whole "bed side manners" and patient interaction skills on the STEP II.


Me, I get tired being around it all day, and I enjoy escaping here to "unwind" with a few gayer than jokes and such 

[onlyme]

I am really not trying to be harsh. BUT THAT IS BULLSHIT. Keep on getting spinal adjustments and YOU WILL get a subluxation, and then you will feel REAL PAIN, and potential loss of bowel and urinary continence. I do not want to see you in my office for bowel incontinence due to these idiots. I am being harsh, but there is not other word to describe this profession. Honestly, arguing with these guys is like arguing with psychics. They know it is bullshit, I know it is bullshit, but they don't want their cash cow to die. I have nothing to gain by exposing these idiots, but if I can prevent one individual from going to these idiots, then these 3 minutes was worth it.

 

Even you have to admit there are way more bad doctors and doctors who are in it just to make money than there are bad chiropractors.  My uncle just two weeks ago spent 9 days in the hospital with pain in his middle area.  Doctors said it was a kidney stone.  So they gave him medicine and said it would pass.  Then they said it was a ruptured L2.  Well after 9 days of not getting out of bed he called another guy who did acupuncture massage therapy.  In 90 minutes my uncle get up out of bed and told everyone to fuck off and left the hospital.  Now he feels better than he has in months.  Doctors are in it for the money and really don't care much about the patient  My personal experiences suck with doctors.  Very incompetent and money hungry.  I waited for one in his office for almost 4 hours.  Once I got into his office I spent literally 37 seconds and he said he couldn't do anything (lymphodema(?) lower right leg)  I later got a bill for $304.  I called him and told his nurse to tell him to fuck off and if he wanted to come after me for the money then sue me.  I would love to expose him.  I never heard back from him.  I truly think doctors are jealous of chiropractors cause they do take business away from them.  But doctors are crooks so they will just charge someone else.

[bodybuildermdpitt]

Even you have to admit there are way more bad doctors and doctors who are in it just to make money than there are bad chiropractors.  My uncle just two weeks ago spent 9 days in the hospital with pain in his middle area.  Doctors said it was a kidney stone.  So they gave him medicine and said it would pass.  Then they said it was a ruptured L2.  Well after 9 days of not getting out of bed he called another guy who did acupuncture massage therapy.  In 90 minutes my uncle get up out of bed and told everyone to fuck off and left the hospital.  Now he feels better than he has in months.  Doctors are in it for the money and really don't care much about the patient  My personal experiences suck with doctors.  Very incompetent and money hungry.  I waited for one in his office for almost 4 hours.  Once I got into his office I spent literally 37 seconds and he said he couldn't do anything (lymphodema(?) lower right leg)  I later got a bill for $304.  I called him and told his nurse to tell him to fuck off and if he wanted to come after me for the money then sue me.  I would love to expose him.  I never heard back from him.  I truly think doctors are jealous of chiropractors cause they do take business away from them.  But doctors are crooks so they will just charge someone else.

I am done discussing this topic, I have said what I need to. Just be careful Onlyme, both of chiropracters and doctors. One manipulates peoples fears for there own gain and one manipulates science for their own gain. I guess it is best for one to choose the best poison. I am almost 40 years old now, and quite frankly excessive materialism has adversely affected my field, and you are right, but that is a completely new pandoras box. My only concern with chiropracters (bullshitters) is the manipulative way they use patients. I guess I have a subjective view due to my own experiences, and you have a subjective view due to your experiences. There is not point to talk about this anymore, the only way anyone will change their minds is to personally be proven otherwise.

[ether]

physical exam plus HPI in under 6 minutes...

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Next time you see my wheeling my surgical instruments through the mall or catch me giving physicals in
a kiosk at a a convention center then i'll be "owned"

Till then i'm content to be doing what I do and reaping the rewards both from my patients and from my
banker which I can assure you are more than enough.

[drkaje]

Just had an adjustment on monday!!

Maybe next time I'll yell out "Look Ma, no stroke!!" just to piss my friend off.

[CoolDuck]

I have adjusted over 135,000 patients in 18 years of being a chiropractor.

Never had one problem with one patient in  any way.

That's the most unbelievable statement I've heard in years. 135 000 patients and no adverse events! You must be Jesus or some other supernatural being. Either that, or you simply don't follow up your patients at all to register side-effects.

Based on the review cited below, 30 to 60% of the patients experience at least mild adverse events:
Ernst E. Chiropractic: A Critical Evaluation. Journal of Pain and Symptom Management 2008;35(5):544-562.


CD

[CoolDuck]

Aww, leave him alone. He just feels threatened....

I don't think so. It appears to me that chiropractic is not scientifically supported at all, based on the reviews I've seen.

CD

[dr.chimps]

so what is the number of minutes you need to spend with a patient to give sound "conventional medicine" since you seem to be so well versed?

Ouch. You seem to have me in your sights. Don't take it so personally. Conventional medicine - of which I am a subscriber - is now one of assembly line here in Canada. If, and when, I need to see my doc (who is a 1st-rate guy- "If you're not sick, don't come and see me") which is maybe every 3-5 years, I arrive with a good idea what is wrong, having done a bit of the legwork, and I leave after 5-10 minutes because I know he and his compadres have their hands full with a waiting room full of GOMERS. I'm just dealing with the situation as it stands, is all.  Satisfied?     

[Moosejay]

A patient of mine who clearly needed colon resection secondary to UC, but her bullshit chiropracter told her that changing her diet, colonics, with spinal manipulation will cure her.

explain that to me.

I went in for right shoulder surgery.

They wrote, in black ink, "R" on my right shoulder.

Why do they do this, Mr. Angry wanna-be MD?

Because it so happens that sometimes, errant MD's amputate or perform surgery on the WRONG LIMB.
Don't worry, I really don't expect you to respond to this.

Get back to the books.

Oh, and no one really wants to hear from you again until you are OUT OF SCHOOL. 

[Moosejay]

That's the most unbelievable statement I've heard in years. 135 000 patients and no adverse events! You must be Jesus or some other supernatural being. Either that, or you simply don't follow up your patients at all to register side-effects.

Based on the review cited below, 30 to 60% of the patients experience at least mild adverse events:
Ernst E. Chiropractic: A Critical Evaluation. Journal of Pain and Symptom Management 2008;35(5):544-562.


Well, you are mediocre and must expect failuer in your life if you cannot believe success.

HTH

CD

[Moosejay]

I am really not trying to be harsh. BUT THAT IS BULLSHIT. Keep on getting spinal adjustments and YOU WILL get a subluxation, and then you will feel REAL PAIN, and potential loss of bowel and urinary continence. I do not want to see you in my office for bowel incontinence due to these idiots. I am being harsh, but there is not other word to describe this profession. Honestly, arguing with these guys is like arguing with psychics. They know it is bullshit, I know it is bullshit, but they don't want their cash [/b] cow to die. I have nothing to gain by exposing these idiots, but if I can prevent one individual from going to these idiots, then these 3 minutes was worth it.

Hence, your motivation here. As I said, your anger stems from $, or what will be lack of it.

Just how do you propose to do your unbiased "study", as you laughbly call it, with such preconceived notions?

Answer: you won't.

You are a LIGHTWEIGHT. There are millions of people just like you.