Author Topic: Limit cardio on cycle  (Read 1535 times)

Notomorrow

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Limit cardio on cycle
« on: April 28, 2022, 11:23:01 PM »
     There are androgen receptors in cardiac muscle. The heart is a muscle. It grows when trained, just like your biceps. I know this sounds counterintuitive, but bodybuilders of the 70s didn't do cardio. There were no Stairmasters. And they're alive. And the myth that they didn't slam gear is false. Guys like Grymkowski and Michalik SLAMMED steroids(Yes Michalik is dead but him living into his 60's is SHOCKING given how much gear he did).
     So mellow out with the cardio while on cycle. Maybe a light jog. Mike O' Hearn does not do cardio. He knows. Now we have guys saying they do 2 hours cardio morning and 2 hours night before a show? On Tren? How do you think your heart responds to that? It GROWS.
       I have researched this and know what I'm saying sounds outrageous, but excessive cardio can kill you if you are on a heavy cycle. This is why so many professional cyclists die from heart attacks or heart failure. They used steroids for performance but fucked their hearts. Now they've learned to dope with EPO NOT steroids. The heart is a muscle. But it's the one muscle you do not want to grow.  If you do steroids, you are different. Different rules than "normal" people.  Go for a walk.
     Here are just a FEW of the professional cyclists who did steroids and died of heart attack/failure. Many were competitors with Lance Armstrong. NOT mass monsters. Steroids for performance not muscle. All in their 20s and 30s. Rail thin and on steroids.

Tommy Simpson
Vincente Carril
Marc Demeyer
Bert Oosterbosch
Jochim Halupczok
Stive Virmaut
Tim Pauwels
Alessio Galletti
Bruno Neves
Rob Goris
Frederiek Nolf
Gijs Verdick
Daan Myngheer
Michael Goolaerts
Robert de Greef
Niels de Vriendt
Eslam Nasser Zaki




IroNat

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Re: Limit cardio on cycle
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2022, 04:13:54 AM »
Bodybuilders are big-hearted people.

deadz

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Re: Limit cardio on cycle
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2022, 02:54:28 PM »
Never limit cardio.
T

Taffin

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Re: Limit cardio on cycle
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2022, 04:33:17 PM »
Bodybuilders are big-hearted people.

Brutal.  And true :'(
T

IroNat

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Re: Limit cardio on cycle
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2022, 04:36:40 AM »
Charles Poliquin said excessive cardio shortens your lifespan because of the metabolic stress it creates.

Not just cardio but excessive, high intensity weight training has the same life shortening effect according to Poliquin.


Taffin

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Re: Limit cardio on cycle
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2022, 08:02:22 AM »
Some people swear it keeps them ripped
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ProudVirgin69

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Re: Limit cardio on cycle
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2022, 04:30:26 AM »
Very thought provoking.  I want to read up on it some more but two things that jump out:

1) this should emphasize the importance of maintaining healthy blood pressure on cycle.  If your heart has to beat against high pressures 24/7 365 that will almost certainly lead to remodeling

2) the hypertrophy seen in athletes (left ventricular hypertrophy, to compensate for the increased demandfor cardiac output) isn't associated w any adverse cardiac events and is transitory, ie: will revert w deconditioning.  Wonder if that's the case here.

Thanks for posting  8)

MIOVIT

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Re: Limit cardio on cycle
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2022, 03:28:34 AM »
If you are training with high intensity with little rest between sets you are making a cardio work too... I have dropped a few pounds keeping my muscle without any cardio work, just with a high-intensity training plan...my blood pressure is 11/6 I posted my results on youtube.. check out


Notomorrow

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Re: BLimit cardio on cycle
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2022, 11:42:13 PM »
2) the hypertrophy seen in athletes (left ventricular hypertrophy, to compensate for the increased demand for cardiac output) isn't associated w any adverse cardiac events and is transitory, ie: will revert w deconditioning.  Wonder if that's the case here.

     I appreciate your knowledgeable and intelligent response. But please remember that there is a distinct difference between a muscle trained under the influence of androgenic/anabolic hormones and a "regular" muscle. We all know that training with steroids is a different prospect than training without them  And there are androgen receptors in cardiac muscle. And we don't even know the effects of HGH on cardiac muscle. In skeletal muscle, HGH seems to cause not only hypertrophy but hyperplasia(a permanent increase in muscle cells) so that may play an extra role in an enlarged heart.

As it stands it's still my hypothesis that excessive cardio WHILE on hormonal agents is not healthy. Just go for a walk and perhaps heavy and limited weight training as opposed to the high reps and sets that go ALONG with heavy cardio in show prep.

Notomorrow

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Re: Limit cardio on cycle
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2022, 11:24:41 PM »
Nadal is now having chest pains and breathing problems causing him to drop out of Wimbledon and is known throughout the ATP circuit to have used gear. Dropped out of multiple tournaments instead of getting random tested. And is the only one of the top three(Federer, Djokovic, Nadal) with a physique that at times changes drastically and carried quite a bit of mass for a sport that in 5 sets is nearly running a marathon. Nadal is rich and famous enough to cover it up so we'll never know and it will be explained away, but something has been going on with him and he's known for gear and extreme cardio.

IroNat

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Re: Limit cardio on cycle
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2022, 04:14:09 AM »
Steroids make your heart grow.

Pretty common for drug users to get enlarged hearts.

Notomorrow

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Re: Limit cardio on cycle
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2022, 11:00:39 PM »
      I'm finding some interesting research about the Frank Starling curve regarding contractile force of muscle cells, which applies to the heart and skeletal muscle. Whether the heart or skeletal muscle, muscles "stretch" based on the load placed on them. So when a heart enlarges too much from too much stress, contractile force of the individual muscle cells of the heart decreases, resulting in a reduced ejection fraction. So marathon runners frequently have a low ejection fraction and an enlarged heart. The individual heart muscle cells are getting weaker despite the amazing aerobics.
'
     High intensity aerobics stretches the heart beyond the ideal stretching point, the heart enlarges but the contractile force of the actual muscle cells of the heart decreases.  If you add anabolic hormones, which also enlarge the heart, to high intensity aerobics, you are doubling down on the lowering of ejection fraction and enlargement of the heart. So it's key to limit cardio while on anabolic hormones.

     It's interesting to note that since the Frank Starling curve applies to ALL muscle, it is likely that the contractile force of each bicep cell get WEAKER as the muscle gets bigger, and the increase in skeletal muscle size from HEAVY weight training is actually from satellite cell recruitment, not from individual contractile force in the muscle cells themselves. So the actual mechanism of growth for your biceps from muscular to HUGE,  is that as you place an extreme load on the muscle, the force stretches the muscle and it grows satellite cells, but each muscle cell actually gets a bit weaker.

I'm still researching this.

 

Notomorrow

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Re: Limit cardio on cycle
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2022, 10:03:11 PM »
       Through my research on this I may have stumbled upon a way to unlimited muscle growth and heart health. Injected satellite cells. They obviously don't want bodybuilders to know about it, but in Muscular Dystrophy and other muscle wasting diseases, they are building and regenerating muscle by isolating and injecting satellite cells into the actual muscle cells of patients. Like a spot injection. More importantly, it could regenerate other cells such as heart cells in heart failure.  Or even aging in general. The research is still developing.

     As I mentioned, the growth in muscle from lifting is not from increased contractile strength, its from satellite cell recruitment, then the satellite cells proliferate and differentiate, and then hypertrophy of the satellite cell occurs as the individual cells start to swell and store glycogen. With steroids and proper training you repeat this process of creating new satellite cells then swelling them up but there comes a limit. Things like Myostatin just won't let it go further.

     But if you just injected satellite cells, you wouldn't really have to ask the body's permission to grow. While satellite cells come from steroids and training, what if one could just inject them in and they graft and start growing? I'm not saying this is possible or even practical but they definitely are putting a lot of money and research into stem cell muscle injections for muscle wasting diseases. I linked some research. The last article is called HEART REPAIR GETS NEW MUSCLE. And it's about satellite cells growing muscle.

    Findings from in vivo human studies suggest that satellite cells play a key role in skeletal muscle fiber repair/remodeling in response to exercise. Mounting evidence indicates that aging has a profound impact on the regulation of satellite cells in human skeletal muscle. Yet, the precise role of satellite cells in the development of muscle fiber atrophy with age remains unresolved. This review seeks to integrate recent results from in vivo human studies on satellite cell function in muscle fiber repair/remodeling in the wider context of satellite cell biology whose literature is largely based on animal and cell models.

 Recent work has shown that freshly isolated satellite cells from adult muscle contain a stem cell-like population that exhibits more efficient engraftment and self-renewal activity in regenerating muscle.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4131689/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1064855/