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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: ToxicAvenger on June 27, 2007, 10:34:25 AM
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the car you drive is fueled by muslim oil..
if you buy gas you are helping terrorists..
stop being hypocrites and buying gas..CAUSE ITR HELPS THE TERRORISTS.. :)
me mum and dad will lose bidness..buuut i have a feeling we'll be fine ;)
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More than half of the world's oil is not supplied by muslim nations..
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My cars and from Ford and Chysler...and I buy oil from American or British companies that where smart enough to pump the oil where these idiots lived for years. I'm not supporting terrorists, I've activley helped put them in the ground where they belong. its wasn't a Jew, a Luthern and a catholic on those planes with box cutters. Its pretty clear where they are getting their ideas....The Koran has alot of sick shit in it. Christ preached nothing but love and peace...freedom of religious thought...these pricks murder and kill because the Koran says to...it tell them to spread Islam and force conversions...whether they have it in black and white or interpret it, it does not matter. Islam has become the enemy until thing change.
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My car is powered by a nuclear fission engine.
0-60 in like a nano second.
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Believ me, I want us to find something else so these bastrds can go back to eating sand..but as far as hating Islam..yep I hate that religion and think it represents a major danger to the West. Actually "the" danger to the west.
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Believ me, I want us to find something else so these bastrds can go back to eating sand..but as far as hating Islam..yep I hate that religion and think it represents a major danger to the West. Actually "the" danger to the west.
Well, at most there's at most 50 years before the shit hits the fan. Either we find a solution (IMO it will be found), or... :-\
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Yeah or......we'll find something. Otherwise we seem to have plenty of horses here.
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Yeah or......we'll find something. Otherwise we seem to have plenty of horses here.
Don't Arabs have a monopoly on horse too? lol
Luckily, Ireland is known for it's horses
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More than half of the world's oil is not supplied by muslim nations..
Yes, even we do here in the Caribbean which many don't know...Trinidad & Tobago for example is an oil producing nation.
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hitler ws a christian.. :)
game over.. ;)
camel...plez dont post in my threads anymore..
your parents are muslims..mine are also..and although i dont agree with some aspects of islam i DO STAND UP FOR MY PARENTS...
you hate islam and hense you also hate your muslim parents..either that or you r a hypocrite..you cant have it both ways..
so i'm requesting you dont post in my threads anymore..
thanx..
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More than half of the world's oil is not supplied by muslim nations..
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i ws talking of americas oil dumbass :-\
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hitler ws a christian.. :)
His acts of evil were done in the name of Christianity? Does the bible support his acts of evil? ???
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i ws talking of americas oil dumbass :-\
America is the 3rd largest producer, idiot.
And I will post in any topic of my pleasing.
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My cars and from Ford and Chysler...and I buy oil from American or British companies that where smart enough to pump the oil where these idiots lived for years. I'm not supporting terrorists, I've activley helped put them in the ground where they belong. its wasn't a Jew, a Luthern and a catholic on those planes with box cutters. Its pretty clear where they are getting their ideas....The Koran has alot of sick shit in it. Christ preached nothing but love and peace...freedom of religious thought...these pricks murder and kill because the Koran says to...it tell them to spread Islam and force conversions...whether they have it in black and white or interpret it, it does not matter. Islam has become the enemy until thing change.
Leaving aside the idiotic nature of this thread, was it not in the name of Christ thousands of Jews were tortured and murdered during the Spanish Inquisition?
How about the millions of natives in the new world massacred under missionary auspices?
Do not forget the church concealing and facilitating the molestation of hundreds of juveniles to avoid tarnishing the reputation of the Bride of Christ.
People the world over use religion to achieve political, militaristic, selfish ends. The Koran is no more a weapon than the Bible, and it's application towards "evil" is a function of the cultural barbarism prevalent in the Middle East/Indonesia more so than the book itself; convert Muslims to Christianity and observe as they terrorize in the name of Jesus, just as Christians have been doing for 2000 years.
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Leaving aside the idiotic nature of this thread, was it not in the name of Christ thousands of Jews were tortured and murdered during the Spanish Inquisition?
How about the millions of natives in the new world massacred under missionary auspices?
Do not forget the church concealing and facilitating the molestation of hundreds of juveniles to avoid tarnishing the reputation of the Bride of Christ.
People the world over use religion to achieve political, militaristic, selfish ends. The Koran is no more a weapon than the Bible, and it's application towards "evil" is a function of the cultural barbarism prevalent in the Middle East/Indonesia more so than the book itself; convert Muslims to Christianity and observe as they terrorize in the name of Jesus, just as Christians have been doing for 2000 years.
I could refute a few of the topics you have brought up, but the fact remains to argue against all your points that war ideologies aren't embedded in the bible as they are the koran.
Did the bible request the spanish inquisition?
Does the bible promote pedophilia? It can be said the koran does (research muhammad).
The difference is, muhammad was a terrorist, jesus was not.
Can you refute these points? ???
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Ok..most of that stuff was done a long long long time ago....no even remotely valid in the modern era. We as a cultural..the West, have moved past that and have for the most part taken our religions with us. The Catholic church condemmed the actions of those responsible for the molestations. All catholics understand that it was wrong..unlike 60% of polled muslims saying suicide bombings or other atrocities are ok sometimes. Don't apologize for these people by saying we're just as bad. Maybe its Arabs that are bad...but Afghani's aren't Arab, Indonesians aren't Arab...Paki's aren't Arab so forget that idea. These people are using their religous beliefs to do the West harm. They view us as corrupt based on their belief system. How extensively have u traveled over there? Maybe u have, I don't know, but they are a threat and need to be delt with. Iran is a major problem and they're Persian. Before fundamentalist nutbags took over they were the most Western and free society in the Middle East. The Mullhas have killed and tortured far more people then the shah ever did.
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This thread is pretty good..it shows who gets it and who's still apoligizing for the West.
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Leaving aside the idiotic nature of this thread, was it not in the name of Christ thousands of Jews were tortured and murdered during the Spanish Inquisition?
How about the millions of natives in the new world massacred under missionary auspices?
Do not forget the church concealing and facilitating the molestation of hundreds of juveniles to avoid tarnishing the reputation of the Bride of Christ.
People the world over use religion to achieve political, militaristic, selfish ends. The Koran is no more a weapon than the Bible, and it's application towards "evil" is a function of the cultural barbarism prevalent in the Middle East/Indonesia more so than the book itself; convert Muslims to Christianity and observe as they terrorize in the name of Jesus, just as Christians have been doing for 2000 years.
Wrong, it was neither in the name of Christ nor was it in the name of the Bible that the Roman Catholic church did any of that. The Roman Catholic Church did all that in the name of the authority of the Catholic church and in the name of their own traditions. Jesus Christ and the Bible actually oppose all of those actions. Why do you think that the same Roman Catholic church banned the reading of the Bible?
You can bring up Hitler, the Inquisitions, the Crusades and all kinds of atrocities done by so called "Christians" throughout history. But the truth remains that Jesus was a loving and peaceful person who preached love and peace for all humans. The truth remains that his disciples and all of the early Christians where peaceful loving people who did not fight back even as they were being insulted, laughed at, ridiculed, tortured and killed.
I am not here to say anything bad about Islam, or to say anything against Muslims. I am here to say leave Christianity out of this one.
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Further..when was the last time we launched a crusade..burnt a witch..held an Inqusition etc etc. As opposed to a suicide bombing...jihad...maybe ten minutes ago.
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Further..when was the last time we launched a crusade..burnt a witch..held an Inqusition etc etc. As opposed to a suicide bombing...jihad...maybe ten minutes ago.
You people need to actually research the crusades.
The christian crusades were only retaliation against the crusades of muslims in the holy land.
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Ok..most of that stuff was done a long long long time ago....no even remotely valid in the modern era. We as a cultural..the West, have moved past that and have for the most part taken our religions with us.
This is precisely the point of my previous post. One can adopt a selective interpretation of the Koran which lends itself to violence in much the same way as was done with the Bible for centuries; violent Jihad is conceptually no different than the possible extrapolations of the Old Testament's vengeful God inflicting infanticide on the Egyptian first-borns, or the New Testament Jesus using force to expel the money changers from the temple. Conversely, a different contextual interpretation arrives at a peaceful rendition of Christian and Islamic values. Without condescending to the absurdity of holding anything as 'divinely inspired', there is no possible approach to either book void of interpretation as translation and or selective inclusion of verse has rendered that avenue obsolete.
You speak of Iran as a Westernized culture before the revolution, but you fail to mention that Westernism was a transitory phase imposed on them by the Shahs which was vehemently rejected in subsequent years. You also neglect to mention the monetary and logistical support Islamic fundamentalism received in the latter half of the 20th century from various Western intelligence agencies as a tool to combat Sovietism and secure access to crucial Middle Eastern natural resources, hence the terrorism America faces is at least in part blowback from a short sighted foreign policy.
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protein farts
are you seroiusly drunk all the time? your posts give me the impression that you have been drinking.
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protein farts
are you seroiusly drunk all the time? your posts give me the impression that you have been drinking.
He's admitted to:
steroid use
cocaine abuse
alcoholism
He has to extend great effort in order to type clear and coherent english. Do not take him seriously.
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This is precisely the point of my previous post. One can adopt a selective interpretation of the Koran which lends itself to violence in much the same way as was done with the Bible for centuries; violent Jihad is conceptually no different than the possible extrapolations of the Old Testament's vengeful God inflicting infanticide on the Egyptian first-borns, or the New Testament Jesus using force to expel the money changers from the temple. Conversely, a different contextual interpretation arrives at a peaceful rendition of Christian and Islamic values. Without condescending to the absurdity of holding anything as 'divinely inspired', there is no possible approach to either book void of interpretation as translation and or selective inclusion of verse has rendered that avenue obsolete.
You speak of Iran as a Westernized culture before the revolution, but you fail to mention that Westernism was a transitory phase imposed on them by the Shahs which was vehemently rejected in subsequent years. You also neglect to mention the monetary and logistical support Islamic fundamentalism received in the latter half of the 20th century from various Western intelligence agencies as a tool to combat Sovietism and secure access to crucial Middle Eastern natural resources, hence the terrorism America faces is at least in part blowback from a short sighted foreign policy.
Again everything is our fault right..i mean we said.."hey raghead go blow yourself up in that pizza joint""..sorry don't remember that. As for Iran, I had a professor in school who was in the Iranian military. Folks were pretty happy...not much crime..u could walk the streets without religious nutbags caneing u or worse. As for our shortsighted foreign policy....it was not that clear cut and besides Soviet agression was not something we could let stand.
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It seems as if your professor was an expatriate with an agenda because you show a distinct lack of education regarding Iran: The Iranian Constitutional Revolution of 1906 declared Islam the countries official religion and all laws to be reviewed by Shi'a clergy; Shi'ism was the religion of 90% of the population as well as a major source of cultural identity. The Shah's were expected to promote and adhere to the Twelver Shi'a Islam, however they chose to marginalize the clergy in favor of Westernizing Iran. It is ignorantly ironic you refer to walking "the streets without religious nutbags caneing u or worse" because the Shah's secret police, SAVAK, was renowned for it's savagery.
The 1978 Iranian (Islamic) Revolution was unique in that it involved no great defeat in battle, peasant uprising, disgruntled military etc. and rather a return to the Shi'a constitution effectively abandoned by the Shah. The Shah was largely seen as a Western puppet and oppressive ruler; most Iranians enthusiastically welcomed his deposing.
As for "hey raghead go blow yourself up in that pizza joint", violence in the name of religion, is that not frighteningly similar to how you trained the mujahideen? Do not forget al'Qaeda's rank and file were drawn largely from ex-mujahideen forces. If you consider them a threat it is only fair to also consider who created that threat :)
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My cars and from Ford and Chysler...and I buy oil from American or British companies that where smart enough to pump the oil where these idiots lived for years. I'm not supporting terrorists, I've activley helped put them in the ground where they belong. its wasn't a Jew, a Luthern and a catholic on those planes with box cutters. Its pretty clear where they are getting their ideas....The Koran has alot of sick shit in it. Christ preached nothing but love and peace...freedom of religious thought...these pricks murder and kill because the Koran says to...it tell them to spread Islam and force conversions...whether they have it in black and white or interpret it, it does not matter. Islam has become the enemy until thing change.
It's ironic that you in this post first mentions how you help kill terrorists.
Then mentions how you like Christ and his message of love and peace.
"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."
However, I agree with you about the Koran, that it has a lot of sick shit in it. You're an educated man, I won't underestimate you. I did it once, never again. ;)
You state that Islam is the enemy. But we can't kill Muslims. Or do you think we should start killing Muslims? Start some kind of genocide?
I think the only viable solution, is to help democracy grow in these countries. Democracy is an enemy of Islam, and where Democracy exists, Islam cannot.
Burning the relations with these countries will only help Islam. Because it will make the foundation of democracy even weaker.
Grow the relations - help the economy - found the democracy - and in the end, Islam will vanish.
Look at Turkey, recently several 200 000 people marched to protest against Islam and support secularism, in Ankara. Turkey was an Islamic nation. It's finally becoming secular, through the help of democracy.
-Hedge
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cultural barbarism
well someone gets it 8)
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His acts of evil were done in the name of Christianity? Does the bible support his acts of evil? ???
yes n yes...
the old testament supports beating women as long as the rod is not thicker than so n so right? ;)
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protein farts
are you seroiusly drunk all the time? your posts give me the impression that you have been drinking.
mr cavalier tommrow i'll be sober..
BUT....you'll still be a snake handling bible thumber :-\
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He's admitted to:
steroid use
cocaine abuse
alcoholism
He has to extend great effort in order to type clear and coherent english. Do not take him seriously.
of course i admitted..i'm not a hypocrite..
your parents pay for your schooling..
they r muslims..
you hate muslims and are quite vocal about it ON HERE..bet ya dont say a peep in front of your parents..
now you all judge..which one of us is a hypocrite?
some folks will do anything to get a white chick :-\
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of course i admitted..i'm not a hypocrite..
your parents pay for your schooling..
they r muslims..
you hate muslims and are quite vocal about it ON HERE..bet ya dont say a peep in front of your parents..
now you all judge..which one of us is a hypocrite?
some folks will do anything to get a white chick :-\
I don't see CJ hating muslims.
I don't hate muslims.
I don't like Islam, but that doesn't mean I will hate muslims.
I sincerly hope the best for all Muslims. Of course. And that would be for them to experience democracy, and give up Islam. 8)
Give it up by their own. Free. Will.
-Hedge
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I don't see CJ hating muslims.
pay attention to his posts..is hypocracy will become apparent mon ami..
and i'll say it again...islam is the MOST misrepresented religion ever..READ the damn koran and NOT from online..go to a mosque and they'll hand you one for free
if i could believe in a god..i'd be a muslim..and i've said that before..
koran is the only book as old that refers to the moon as a "satellite"...talks about " the big bang"..."talks about black holes"...talks about our sun going red giant ..
of course i attribute it to "we've been helped" by aliens..some wanna believe in other civilizAtions in a universe where there r more stars then grains of sand on earth..and some wanna believe in a higher power..
occums razor finds me more valid..
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This is precisely the point of my previous post. One can adopt a selective interpretation of the Koran which lends itself to violence in much the same way as was done with the Bible for centuries; violent Jihad is conceptually no different than the possible extrapolations of the Old Testament's vengeful God inflicting infanticide on the Egyptian first-borns, or the New Testament Jesus using force to expel the money changers from the temple. Conversely, a different contextual interpretation arrives at a peaceful rendition of Christian and Islamic values. Without condescending to the absurdity of holding anything as 'divinely inspired', there is no possible approach to either book void of interpretation as translation and or selective inclusion of verse has rendered that avenue obsolete.
It seems as if your professor was an expatriate with an agenda because you show a distinct lack of education regarding Iran
You need to get off your high horse for someone who knows NOTHING about islam. I'd say you show a distinct lack of education regarding islam.
The koran is definitive, absolute, for it is the DIRECT WORD OF GOD ushered to muhammad via the angel gabriel. It's an infallible copy of "the mother of books", a book which has been beside gods side since the beginning.
Please do your best to refute this.
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pay attention to his posts..is hypocracy will become apparent mon ami..
and i'll say it again...islam is the MOST misrepresented religion ever..READ the damn koran and NOT from online..go to a mosque and they'll hand you one for free
if i could believe in a god..i'd be a muslim..and i've said that before..
koran is the only book as old that refers to the moon as a "satellite"...talks about " the big bang"..."talks about black holes"...talks about our sun going red giant ..
of course i attribute it to "we've been helped" by aliens..some wanna believe in other civilizAtions in a universe where there r more stars then grains of sand on earth..and some wanna believe in a higher power..
occums razor finds me more valid..
As I told you in a post, only a few days ago, I read a pretty acknowledged translation. Yes, a real book. I read it first back in high school, the one time I read the whole thing through (I lent a copy from my high school). Later on, I've read passages.
You keep referring to Islam being misrepresented.
I am telling you to read the Qu'ran, and to see what is actually stated about the relationship between man and woman.
Then tell me that equality for women would be possible in a Muslim world.
And don't give me that usual bullshit about how your "sis" gets all the goodies.
It's irrelevant. Look at what the Qu'ran preaches, it is the DIRECT words of God.
Those who doesn't follow it to a T, aren't following the wishes of Allah, and aren't doing the Muslim gig 100%.
Seems like we've been over this so many times Toxy, you refusing to accept that there is something fundamentally wrong with the Islamic culture. You as a scholar should be better than anyone at picking Islam apart.
Yet, you always bring up the few positive aspects of Islam. Why is that? And what fcuking relevance does it have today if Islamic scholars were the shit in Math 1000 years ago?
Hopefully, we're living in 2007, and trying to make democracy work, and not 1007 in Mecca.
If you would use your scientific approach when looking at Islam, you would tear that religion apart, like it would not even be funny.
And BTW. Stop bringing Christianity into this. It's a separate matter. If 100 000 people (I just picked a number) were killed in the name of Christianity during the 16th century, it doesn't make Islamic terrorism any less barbaric today.
The only time you should bring Christianity into a discussion on Islam, is if there is a Christian-Islam conflict, or some kind of parallell.
But stop excusing the crimes made in the name of Islam by bringing up crimes made by Christians. It's just stupid. You as a scholar, again, should really know this.
And finally, I think your comments on how CJ has handled his family business pretty stereotypical for the Muslim community. Even though you claim to be an Atheist.
Instead of giving him credit for being a free mind, you repeatedly bashes him whenever you get the fcuking opportunity for leaving Islam.
C'mon Toxy. You're better than that.
-Hedge
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Toxic, you're a scholar?
Wow, what are your educational credentials? :o
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I work with these two pakistani girls....one went back to Pakistan for 6 weeks (she left when she was 7) and HATED it. She said after one day she couldn't wait to leave. They tried to stop her from walkin around by herself, or even with her 1st COUSIN without a chaperone. Didnt like the clothes or makeup she wore, etc. She said she isn't going back ever again. Interesting
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Jesus using force to expel the money changers from the temple.
Jesus overturned some tables and freed some animals belonging to thieves and crooks at the temple. How is this violence? Jesus did not hurt any people or any animals.
Please point out a person or a group of people who have committed atrocities because they misinterpreted what Jesus did at the temple with the money changers.
Matthew 26:
52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him,
"for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
Luke 9:
54 When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked,
"Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to
destroy them?"
55 But Jesus turned and rebuked them,
You cannot take Jesus Christ's teachings or mere Christianity to support violence. Jesus Christ and Christianity oppose violence. Christianity is truly a religion of peace and love.
If you are going to defend Islam, saying that Christianity is violent and evil does not automatically make Islam peaceful and good. Leave Christianity out of this.
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You can't reason with most muslims, just like you can't reason with toxy.
I've told my parents various times what I think of Islam. They're cool with it because I don't get into trouble and I do what I'm supposed to; never stay out late and what not. My mother has told me various times how proud of me she is for being an open thinker. My mom is not an atheist, but she's secular and hates militant islam.
My brother is nonreligious, I guess you could call him agonostic.
I am not a hypocrite and I always practice what I preach. Toxy can't stand how someone can go against the norm so he calls me a hypocrite.. Pretty sad.
Hey toxy, do your parents know of your steroid abuse? Do they know you do coke? Do they know you abuse alcohol everyday? Do they know you sleep around? :-\ You're the hypocrite, mate.
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Do they you abuse alcohol everyday?
Man... WTF, are you taking the piss, or is there truth to this? ??? :o
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Man... WTF, are you taking the piss, or is there truth to this? ??? :o
it was a typo fag..
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You need to get off your high horse for someone who knows NOTHING about islam. I'd say you show a distinct lack of education regarding islam.
The koran is definitive, absolute, for it is the DIRECT WORD OF GOD ushered to muhammad via the angel gabriel. It's an infallible copy of "the mother of books", a book which has been beside gods side since the beginning.
Please do your best to refute this.
What you say has no credibility; it is clear to even the most casual observer you are biased against Islam and offer no insight, nothing of intelligence, only thoughtless propaganda. Please do take five minutes and do a google search on the term 'Tasfir'; from Wikipedia:
The Qur'an, the utmost authority on Islam asserts that the word was sent to all of mankind and it is up to the whole of mankind to receive it and sincerely ponder upon its meaning. Islam acknowledges no "clergy" nor monopolisation of "The Word of God", Islam only acknowledges the "knowledgeable" ones from among a community of people, the "Ulama" or scholars. In the Qur'an, God exhorts mankind to "think" and "ponder" and "realise" for themselves, thereby awakening true belief inside each and every human being.
For every Qur'anic verse there are sixty thousand understandings [comprehensible to man]. The understandings of it which remain [incomprehensible to man] are even more than these in number
You are ignorant, fool :)
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Jesus overturned some tables and freed some animals belonging to thieves and crooks at the temple. How is this violence? Jesus did not hurt any people or any animals.
Please point out a person or a group of people who have committed atrocities because they misinterpreted what Jesus did at the temple with the money changers.
Matthew 26:
52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him,
"for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
Luke 9:
54 When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked,
"Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to
destroy them?"
55 But Jesus turned and rebuked them,
You cannot take Jesus Christ's teachings or mere Christianity to support violence. Jesus Christ and Christianity oppose violence. Christianity is truly a religion of peace and love.
If you are going to defend Islam, saying that Christianity is violent and evil does not automatically make Islam peaceful and good. Leave Christianity out of this.
Ill bring whatever I want into "this", thank you. As for Jesus and violence:
http://members.aol.com/patriarchy/predestination/Jesus.htm
:)
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I work with these two pakistani girls....one went back to Pakistan for 6 weeks (she left when she was 7) and HATED it. She said after one day she couldn't wait to leave. They tried to stop her from walkin around by herself, or even with her 1st COUSIN without a chaperone. Didnt like the clothes or makeup she wore, etc. She said she isn't going back ever again. Interesting
but she is muslim right?
sooo you should hate her.. :-\
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You can't reason with most muslims, just like you can't reason with toxy.
I've told my parents various times what I think of Islam. They're cool with it because I don't get into trouble and I do what I'm supposed to; never stay out late and what not. My mother has told me various times how proud of me she is for being an open thinker. My mom is not an atheist, but she's secular and hates militant islam.
My brother is nonreligious, I guess you could call him agonostic.
I am not a hypocrite and I always practice what I preach. Toxy can't stand how someone can go against the norm so he calls me a hypocrite.. Pretty sad.
Hey toxy, do your parents know of your steroid abuse? Do they know you do coke? Do they know you abuse alcohol everyday? Do they know you sleep around? :-\ You're the hypocrite, mate.
my parents know i use steroids and that i drink..Div ws visiting me recently..well this past weekend..(check fem board) pm him and ask him..my shit sits out in the open..
pwned! ;)
pm him and ask..
as far as coke..of course not..but i hope you let your parents know on a daily basis what you say against muslims on here..after all they SUPPORT YOU..
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As I told you in a post, only a few days ago, I read a pretty acknowledged translation. Yes, a real book. I read it first back in high school, the one time I read the whole thing through (I lent a copy from my high school). Later on, I've read passages.
You keep referring to Islam being misrepresented.
I am telling you to read the Qu'ran, and to see what is actually stated about the relationship between man and woman.
Then tell me that equality for women would be possible in a Muslim world.
And don't give me that usual bullshit about how your "sis" gets all the goodies.
It's irrelevant. Look at what the Qu'ran preaches, it is the DIRECT words of God.
Those who doesn't follow it to a T, aren't following the wishes of Allah, and aren't doing the Muslim gig 100%.
Seems like we've been over this so many times Toxy, you refusing to accept that there is something fundamentally wrong with the Islamic culture. You as a scholar should be better than anyone at picking Islam apart.
Yet, you always bring up the few positive aspects of Islam. Why is that? And what fcuking relevance does it have today if Islamic scholars were the shit in Math 1000 years ago?
Hopefully, we're living in 2007, and trying to make democracy work, and not 1007 in Mecca.
If you would use your scientific approach when looking at Islam, you would tear that religion apart, like it would not even be funny.
And BTW. Stop bringing Christianity into this. It's a separate matter. If 100 000 people (I just picked a number) were killed in the name of Christianity during the 16th century, it doesn't make Islamic terrorism any less barbaric today.
The only time you should bring Christianity into a discussion on Islam, is if there is a Christian-Islam conflict, or some kind of parallell.
But stop excusing the crimes made in the name of Islam by bringing up crimes made by Christians. It's just stupid. You as a scholar, again, should really know this.
. Even though you claim to be an Atheist.
Instead of giving him credit for being a free mind, you repeatedly bashes him whenever you get the fcuking opportunity for leaving Islam.
C'mon Toxy. You're better than that.
-Hedge
you need to pick up another translation...
And finally, I think your comments on how CJ has handled his family business pretty stereotypical for the Muslim community
REALLY?
my parents and my gf who is greek orthodox know i'm an athiest..
they dont like it they dont like it but i sure dont say one thing on here and another at home...
2 faced = snake
i wouldn't trust cj with anything..the guy will say anything ..as the situation demands..i'll stick to my guts and take the heat..
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Ill bring whatever I want into "this", thank you. As for Jesus and violence:
http://members.aol.com/patriarchy/predestination/Jesus.htm
:)
Yes, you are free to bring whatever you want into this, even if it isn't truthful. I'll just point out what is and what isn't true about Jesus Christ.
Thanks very much for the link! Very interesting site, but it does not say that Jesus is violent. It simply says that "Jesus is no wimpy, mild-mannered flower-child", and I agree. ;D
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it was a typo fag..
No fag... I meant the alcoholism... is it true?
What you say has no credibility; it is clear to even the most casual observer you are biased against Islam and offer no insight, nothing of intelligence, only thoughtless propaganda. Please do take five minutes and do a google search on the term 'Tasfir'; from Wikipedia:
You are ignorant, fool :)
From wikipedia...
A certain religious scholar said, "For every Qur'anic verse there are sixty thousand understandings [comprehensible to man]. The understandings of it which remain [incomprehensible to man] are even more than these in number."
Really weak evidence, nice try tho!
From your own source:
A related Muslim belief is that the Qur'an is c) free of contradiction, and that apparent inconsistencies in its message are inevitably resolved through closer study of the Qur'anic text.
This supports my stance, how for example, can the multiple interpretations [that contradict] be valid, to be free of contradiction means there can only be a single interpret in regards to a sample of text the size of the koran.
Are you still of the opinion that the koran isn't the word of god, isn't infallible and isn't the definitive source to living life and imposing it's law? You know these are the cruxes of islam right?
BTW are you a muslim?
Ill bring whatever I want into "this", thank you. As for Jesus and violence:
http://members.aol.com/patriarchy/predestination/Jesus.htm
:)
Oh brother ::)
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aint it funny that no one talks to nord or pays attention to him or invites his opinion yet he barges in anyhow..
he kn ows i dislike him yet he insists on posting on EVERYONE of my threads..
low class.. :-\
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aint it funny that no one talks to nord or pays attention to him or invites his opinion yet he barges in anyhow..
he kn ows i dislike him yet he insists on posting on EVERYONE of my threads..
low class.. :-\
The very idea of a forum is that it's an open discussion.
Nordic participates, just like anyone else.
If you post on a forum, I think you should be prepared that any of the members of the forum could reply.
My guess, is that you actually agree. 8)
-Hedge
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The very idea of a forum is that it's an open discussion.
-Hedge
i agree.. 8)
you apparently dont..since ya let shawanna del soo many of my threads..
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From wikipedia...
A certain religious scholar said, "For every Qur'anic verse there are sixty thousand understandings [comprehensible to man]. The understandings of it which remain [incomprehensible to man] are even more than these in number."
Really weak evidence, nice try tho!
I see, the one who knew nothing of Tasfir knows better than a religious scholar?
From your own source:
This supports my stance, how for example, can the multiple interpretations [that contradict] be valid, to be free of contradiction means there can only be a single interpret in regards to a sample of text the size of the koran.
Free of contradiction does not necessarily imply "there can only be a single interpret": Different interpretations need only be congruent amongst themselves. If what you propose were accurate, there would be no need for Muhammad's Hadith which serves to "supplement and clarify the Quran". Nor would there be any need for the Sahaba, which further interprets the Quran. Both of these tools are as old as Islam itself.
Once again, you show a distinct lack of education regarding Islam. As I wrote before you offer only propaganda; the fingerprint of a weak mind :)
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aint it funny that no one talks to nord or pays attention to him or invites his opinion yet he barges in anyhow..
he kn ows i dislike him yet he insists on posting on EVERYONE of my threads..
low class.. :-\
You really know how to make a girl feel wanted...
... yah fag ...
I see, the one who knew nothing of Tasfir knows better than a religious scholar?
"Free of contradiction does not necessarily imply "there can only be a single interpret": Different interpretations need only be congruent amongst themselves. If what you propose were accurate, there would be no need for Muhammad's Hadith which serves to "supplement and clarify the Quran". Nor would there be any need for the Sahaba, which further interprets the Quran. Both of these tools are as old as Islam itself.
Once again, you show a distinct lack of education regarding Islam. As I wrote before you offer only propaganda; the fingerprint of a weak mind :)
So, you REALLY believe 60,000 to be a realistic figure? ANY evidence supporting this? Is it REALLY logical EACH and EVERY verse has 60K possible interpretations? Even the most fundamentally basic verses have 60K possible interpretations?
Don't you what I see as a frivolous statement as evidence in your point if you do not support it.
So I ask you now, do you support the accuracy of that statement? Is his opinion in anyway bias?
Please explain to me something containing as much literature as the koran could possibly follow the formulae of having differing interpretations need only be congruent amongst themselves.
You would have commanded a much more demanding position in this debate hadn't you stated the hadith was as old as islam itself.
You're getting the basics incorrect, so how are you an authority to say to me I show a "distinct" lack of education regarding islam?
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So, you REALLY believe 60,000 to be a realistic figure? ANY evidence supporting this? Is it REALLY logical EACH and EVERY verse has 60K possible interpretations? Even the most fundamentally basic verses have 60K possible interpretations?
Don't you what I see as a frivolous statement as evidence in your point if you do not support it.
So I ask you now, do you support the accuracy of that statement? Is his opinion in anyway bias?
Maybe, just maybe, the religious scholar was speaking figuratively.
The exactness of "60 000" should have been your first clue.
"oh brother" ::)
Please explain to me something containing as much literature as the koran could possibly follow the formulae of having differing interpretations need only be congruent amongst themselves.
With your literalist mindset, "something containing as much literature as the Koran" could never have even one truly congruent interpretation; there will always be a passage that seemingly contradicts another. With this in mind (see next point)...
You would have commanded a much more demanding position in this debate hadn't you stated the hadith was as old as islam itself.
You're getting the basics incorrect, so how are you an authority to say to me I show a "distinct" lack of education regarding islam?
Again, from wikipedia:
A hadith was originally an oral tradition relevant to the actions and customs of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Starting with the first Fitna of the 7th century, those receiving the hadith started to question the sources of the saying.[1] This resulted in a list of transmitters, for example "A told me that B told him that Muhammad said". This list of the chain of testimony by which a hadith was transmitted is called an Isnad. The text itself came to be known as Matn.
The hadith were eventually recorded in written form, had their Isnad evaluated and were gathered into large collections mostly during the reign of Umar II (bin Abdul Aziz, grandson of Umar bin Khattab(RAA)2nd Caliph) during 8th century, something that solidified in the 9th century. These works are still today referred to in matters of Islamic law and History.
Since inception(ie Hadith is as old as Islam itself :)), Muslims realized a text as large and containing as many historical and moralistic references as the Koran requires interpretation; one needs to appreciate the context of the Koran to interpret it and cross reference the passages. Ergo, the hadith and Sahaba.
It is somewhat amusing you cannot grasp this concept; most children struggle with literalism too.
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Maybe, just maybe, the religious scholar was speaking figuratively.
The exactness of "60 000" should have been your first clue.
"oh brother" ::)
With your literalist mindset, "something containing as much literature as the Koran" could never have even one truly congruent interpretation; there will always be a passage that seemingly contradicts another. With this in mind (see next point)...
Again, from wikipedia:
Since inception(ie Hadith is as old as Islam itself :)), Muslims realized a text as large and containing as many historical and moralistic references as the Koran requires interpretation; one needs to appreciate the context of the Koran to interpret it and cross reference the passages. Ergo, the hadith and Sahaba.
It is somewhat amusing you cannot grasp this concept; most children struggle with literalism too.
The hadith is not as old as islam itself.
Muhammad was the very first muslim, and for a muslim to exist, so must the religious body. Are you saying in the very instance muhammad became a muslim so did the hadiths?
It's quite obvious the hadiths aren't as old as islam itself, and you are yet to provide evidence supporting this.
Oh and quit with the childish ad-hominem attacks, it makes you look like a child.
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Nordic, do you have legs that are short when compared to the length of your body?
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My car is powered by a nuclear fission engine.
0-60 in like a nano second.
LMAO...i got the same car...with some 20's on it...
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The hadith is not as old as islam itself.
Muhammad was the very first muslim, and for a muslim to exist, so must the religious body. Are you saying in the very instance muhammad became a muslim so did the hadiths?
It's quite obvious the hadiths aren't as old as islam itself, and you are yet to provide evidence supporting this.
Oh and quit with the childish ad-hominem attacks, it makes you look like a child.
You cannot have Islam without a Koran, the revelations of which began in 610 and were not completed until 632 when Muhammad died.
The hadiths began in the 610's.
Ergo, since you insist on splitting hairs like a child, the hadiths are “as old as Islam itself” and if anything, even older. I did not spell this out because being the "traditions relating to the words and deeds of Muhammad" it seemed obvious to me the hadiths began contemporaneously with Islam. In the future I will keep in mind my target audience and include every detail, no matter how insultingly mundane.
Once again, you are transfixed in a literalist (childish) mindset and clearly in the wrong. It must hurt to realise the "philosophy" of hatred you guide your life with is rooted in ignorance :)
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Who cares...i Understand enough when 17 of the 19 major conflicts raging around the globe involve muslims...wonderful folks.
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You cannot have Islam without a Koran, the revelations of which began in 610 and were not completed until 632 when Muhammad died.
The hadiths began in the 610's.
Ergo, since you insist on splitting hairs like a child, the hadiths are “as old as Islam itself” and if anything, even older. I did not spell this out because being the "traditions relating to the words and deeds of Muhammad" it seemed obvious to me the hadiths began contemporaneously with Islam. In the future I will keep in mind my target audience and include every detail, no matter how insultingly mundane.
Once again, you are transfixed in a literalist (childish) mindset and clearly in the wrong. It must hurt to realise the "philosophy" of hatred you guide your life with is rooted in ignorance :)
Right, so what was the year muhammad himself became a muslim? ???
You're forgetting one crucial piece of evidence here. Islam has existed forever in the form of the "mother of books" which the koran is a copy of.
Muslims believe adam and eve were "muslims".
Ergo, hadith age != age islam, no matter how pseudo intellectually you wish to speak.
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Who cares...i Understand enough when 17 of the 19 major conflicts raging around the globe involve muslims...wonderful folks.
simple as that
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Right, so what was the year muhammad himself became a muslim? ???
Muhammad could not have been a Muslim until after he received his final revelation; otherwise, by implication, not all revelations are necessary tenants of Islam.
You're forgetting one crucial piece of evidence here. Islam has existed forever in the form of the "mother of books" which the koran is a copy of.
Muslims believe adam and eve were "muslims".
Ergo, hadith age != age islam, no matter how pseudo intellectually you wish to speak.
Interesting approach; it is true Muslims do not consider themselves a new religion, rather a restoration of one corrupted by Judaism and Christianity, but even this belief did not begin until sometime after 610 when Muhammad told them it was so.
Do you have evidence of Adam and Eve, or any other monotheist predating Judaism, practicing the 5 Pillars of Islam?
You deserve recognition for your childlike creativity. On an empirical level, however, your argument holds no water.
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Muhammad could not have been a Muslim until after he received his final revelation; otherwise, by implication, not all revelations are necessary tenants of Islam.
Interesting approach; it is true Muslims do not consider themselves a new religion, rather a restoration of one corrupted by Judaism and Christianity, but even this belief did not begin until sometime after 610 when Muhammad told them it was so.
Do you have evidence of Adam and Eve, or any other monotheist predating Judaism, practicing the 5 Pillars of Islam?
You deserve recognition for your childlike creativity. On an empirical level, however, your argument holds no water.
Right so you can't really refute that point over than psuedo intellectual statements.
How can you say muhammad couldn't be a muslim until his final revelation? That is so false it's unbelieveable you try to pass it off as fact.
Muhammad and his men regarded themselves muslims throught their expansion. Read the history of muhammad and islam.
BTW, you come across as one protentious S.O.B! :-*
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You need to read more carefully; I refuted your point by asking for "evidence of Adam and Eve, or any other monotheist predating Judaism, practicing the 5 Pillars of Islam". Likewise, I clearly explained why Muhammad could not have been a Muslim "until after he received his final revelation; otherwise, by implication, not all revelations are necessary tenants of Islam."
I would rather come across as "protentious" than ignorant :)
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You need to read more carefully; I refuted your point by asking for "evidence of Adam and Eve, or any other monotheist predating Judaism, practicing the 5 Pillars of Islam". Likewise, I clearly explained why Muhammad could not have been a Muslim "until after he received his final revelation; otherwise, by implication, not all revelations are necessary tenants of Islam."
I would rather come across as "protentious" than ignorant :)
Well you're ignorant too! :-*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_of_first_male_Muslim
"This conversion would have happened sometime between 610 CE, when Muhammad started sharing his experiences (visions of divine origin) with his immediate family, and 612 CE"
Therefore, the concept of a muslim pre-dates your incorrect view of islam.
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More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_7th_century_Muslim_history
613: Declaration at Mount Safa inviting the general public to Islam
631 or 632, tribe of Thaqif adopts Islam
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Don't dodge the REAL question, Manni!
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Don't dodge the REAL question, Manni!
What real question?
Only so much can be taken into consideration with a person who presents himself as an islamic scholar, with this false information.
Anyhow, how's the law degree coming along? You represented any burka wearing muslim whores yet? ???
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Well, at most there's at most 50 years before the shit hits the fan. Either we find a solution (IMO it will be found), or... :-\
Yeah or......we'll find something. Otherwise we seem to have plenty of horses here.
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php
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Who cares...i Understand enough when 17 of the 19 major conflicts raging around the globe involve muslims...wonderful folks.
surprisingly the up and coming taliban think exactly the same of christianity..
..think about that..
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http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php
wow thanx for the link..
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surprisingly the up and coming taliban think exactly the same of christianity..
..think about that..
You REALLY lack intelligence.
As Hedge says. We are the enlightened ones, how YOU can make a comparison to the Taliban is an absolute joke. You know full well HH6 has some weight in what he's saying, and the Taliban has zero.
You fucking digust me.
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What real question?
Only so much can be taken into consideration with a person who presents himself as an islamic scholar, with this false information.
Anyhow, how's the law degree coming along? You represented any burka wearing muslim whores yet? ???
This question:
Nordic, do you have legs that are short when compared to the length of your body?
The degree's dragging on, but only one more year to go. Haven't defended any "burkha wearing whores" as I've been too busy training for Royal Marine selection next March :D.
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This question:
The degree's dragging on, but only one more year to go. Haven't defended any "burkha wearing whores" as I've been too busy training for Royal Marine selection next March :D.
Haha no, lol.
Nice, honourable career!
One of my old school mates tried the marine route, basically it was too much for him and ended up working in a super market for 2 years before finally becoming a plumber. He's bald now... Try not taking the same route as him!
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My gas is from Canada.
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Haha no, lol.
Nice, honourable career!
One of my old school mates tried the marine route, basically it was too much for him and ended up working in a super market for 2 years before finally becoming a plumber. He's bald now... Try not taking the same route as him!
I think I'm fucked on the bald front. Pretty much all the males on both my parent's sides are "follicly challenged". It's just a matter of waiting for the inevitable.
The reason for the legs question is that my mate Ole's parents are Norwegian, and all his family have short legs/long body. Just wondered if it was some kind of evolutionary trait? To aid the catching of puffins, perhaps?
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Just wondered if it was some kind of evolutionary trait? To aid the catching of puffins, perhaps?
ROFLMAO! haha, nice one ;D :D
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Well you're ignorant too! :-*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_of_first_male_Muslim
"This conversion would have happened sometime between 610 CE, when Muhammad started sharing his experiences (visions of divine origin) with his immediate family, and 612 CE"
Therefore, the concept of a muslim pre-dates your incorrect view of islam.
Obviously Muhammad had disciples near the beginning of his revelations as the hadiths began in the 610's. However, for the third time, "Muhammad could not have been a Muslim until after he received his final revelation; otherwise, by implication, not all revelations are necessary tenants of Islam." The same reasoning applies to his followers. We are debating a matter of semantics, not historical accuracy, and I am still waiting for "evidence of Adam and Eve, or any other monotheist predating Judaism, practicing the 5 Pillars of Islam" :)
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Obviously Muhammad had disciples near the beginning of his revelations as the hadiths began in the 610's. However, for the third time, "Muhammad could not have been a Muslim until after he received his final revelation; otherwise, by implication, not all revelations are necessary tenants of Islam." The same reasoning applies to his followers. We are debating a matter of semantics, not historical accuracy, and I am still waiting for "evidence of Adam and Eve, or any other monotheist predating Judaism, practicing the 5 Pillars of Islam" :)
It's implied. It's implied because the mother of books has been around since as long as god has. Research islam.
And sorry, but your responce is hardly a come back. You're clutching at straws. If you are infact correct, ammed wikipedia.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that islam has been around forever with the existance as god, as the "mother of books", of which the koran is a perfect replica for.
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It's implied. It's implied because the mother of books has been around since as long as god has. Research islam.
And sorry, but your responce is hardly a come back. You're clutching at straws. If you are infact correct, ammed wikipedia.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that islam has been around forever with the existance as god, as the "mother of books", of which the koran is a perfect replica for.
You chose to refute my evaluation concerning the implication of labelling Muhammad’s disciples as "Muslims" before his final revelation based on "the mother of books" having been around "since as long as god has". Unfortunately, you cannot substantiate this assertion by producing evidence of "Muslims" adhering to the 5 pillars of Islam before the corrupting influences of Judaism and Christianity.
Therefore, it is you, not I, who are grasping at straws. Care to “ammed” your previous posts?
:)
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I just got back from a fishing trip, bitches. Caught some fluke and a few sting rays.. None were legal as they were too small.
Toxic, you're an idiot. I'm not two faced..
My parents know that I drink and smoke, and they know of my anti religious stand. I don't really have to prove shit to you.
Your parents don't know that you do coke.. You probably don't have the sac to tell them. ;D
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You chose to refute my evaluation concerning the implication of labelling Muhammad’s disciples as "Muslims" before his final revelation based on "the mother of books" having been around "since as long as god has". Unfortunately, you cannot substantiate this assertion by producing evidence of "Muslims" adhering to the 5 pillars of Islam before the corrupting influences of Judaism and Christianity.
Therefore, it is you, not I, who are grasping at straws. Care to “ammed” your previous posts?
:)
False, your main strength in your posts is your protentious manner and way with language.
"This conversion would have happened sometime between 610 CE, when Muhammad started sharing his experiences (visions of divine origin) with his immediate family, and 612 CE"
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False, your main strength in your posts is your protentious manner and way with language.
"This conversion would have happened sometime between 610 CE, when Muhammad started sharing his experiences (visions of divine origin) with his immediate family, and 612 CE"
This has been established; now Google the date his visions ended.
At this point I will assume you cannot produce the evidence I have requested several times. Pity :)
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This has been established; now Google the date his visions ended.
At this point I will assume you cannot produce the evidence I have requested several times. Pity :)
Where's your evidence "muslims" didn't exist until muhammads final vision? Other than your psuedo intellectual canned reply, does it exist?
What was muhammad and his adherents faiths up until muhammads final vision? Were they Jews, Pagans maybe, Agnostic, Atheist?
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seauantea, I'm still awaiting your evidence.