Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => History - Stories - and Memories => Topic started by: funk51 on June 06, 2007, 07:03:11 AM
-
two non synthol old age bbers
-
Thats an impressive arm. Especially for 57 yrs ago.
-
several more
-
Freddy ortiz arms are amazing, especially for the 1960's
(http://www.musclememory.com/images/vintage/OrtizFreddy.jpg)
(http://ironage.us/articles/images/bicep_peak/ortiz.jpg)
-
Ortiz isn't remembered much but looked great.
-
Ortiz had massive, perfect arms. Great pics.
-
Ortiz had massive, perfect arms. Great pics.
true, they were outrageous, especially for the time.
the arm at top of thread looks unbelievable for 1950 :o
over 20". gh15 has stated many times that guys were using test from the 1940's - and when i see an arm like that in 1950! well, you've got to wonder. :-\
-
several more
-
Wow Funk51!
Where did you find that Beckles pic?
I never knew he was ever young ;D
When is that from?
-
true, they were outrageous, especially for the time.
the arm at top of thread looks unbelievable for 1950 :o
over 20". gh15 has stated many times that guys were using test from the 1940's - and when i see an arm like that in 1950! well, you've got to wonder. :-\
For sure.
-
beckles pic is probably from the mid 60's when he was in the mr britain contest. scott's around 65 66 when he was mr o. couple more pics to ponder.
-
rick wayne circa 1980's
dave draper circa 1960's
-
true, they were outrageous, especially for the time.
the arm at top of thread looks unbelievable for 1950 :o
over 20". gh15 has stated many times that guys were using test from the 1940's - and when i see an arm like that in 1950! well, you've got to wonder. :-\
Ortiz was asked how much protein do you take and he was quoted saying "Who needs protein when you have dianabol".
Check out this pic, probably one of the first guys to have a split in his bicep.
(http://ironage.us/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7884.0;id=8344;image)
-
rick wayne circa 1980's
Wayne from late 60s, early 70s. After that he really wasn't in shape.
-
and more
-
That shot's a reminder that Coe had one of the best pairs of arms in the world early-70s.
-
no synthol..............
roids, yesss.........
but, i have to give it to them, they had nice arms, drugs or not!
-
more
-
Very impressive tris!
-
more
-
Pearl was great.
Why was Grimek such a star, was he being promoted by someone? I mean, did he have backing from a magazine, or sponsor/s, he was very well built, but there were other physiques on par in the era.
-
grimek predates pearl by 15 to 20 years. john grimek was being pushed by hoffman and the strength and health mags, when hoffman started up muscular developent mag in early 60's grimek was the first editor.
-
So Grimek was around in Reeves' day?
-
figo,grimek was born in 1910, reeves 1926, pearl 1930. only pearl is still alive.
-
Trying to establish why he was so "big", but I suppose he was best of his time.
Had no idea Perl was that age. Great long career. Aged well.
-
arm of the day
-
arm hof
-
Great pics.
-
and more
-
big bill petis (spelling)
those arms right there might just be the best i've ever seen. wow :o
-
big bill petis (spelling)
those arms right there might just be the best i've ever seen. wow :o
Freaky development, shape and peak on upper arms, very thick forearms.
Why doesnt this guy get mentioned when they have these "best arms" articles and things?
Viator was very young there, what the hell did this guy do in his teens, to get so big so young? He won the America at 19, right? More to the point, what the hell was he on? Besides great genes.
-
Freaky development, shape and peak on upper arms, very thick forearms.
Why doesnt this guy get mentioned when they have these "best arms" articles and things?
Viator was very young there, what the hell did this guy do in his teens, to get so big so young? He won the America at 19, right? More to the point, what the hell was he on? Besides great genes.
i still can't get over bill's arms. i've never seen that pic before. i would definitely say that bill's arms are the best i've ever seen. unbelievable.
casey was a genetic freak and arthur jones (the inventer of nautilus) knew this only too well. he was trained exclusively by jones at this time casey became the poster boy for jones' very successful sale of high intensity bbing.
i say sale because jones rode high intensity bbing all the way to the bank. he published many books, directed the very successful nautilus empire and all on the back of high intensity bbing and casey viator as proof of it's effectiveness.
arthur used casey in so many ways that i think casey felt a little ripped off and may have been somewhat disillusioned with jones towards the end (he got diddly squat from the fortune that jones made).
ahh, the life of a pro bber.
-
Some guys like Pettis and Larry Samuels in NY were off the radar, mentioned only in 1-2 articles in second-tier mags with virtually no pics taken. Samuels was huge, used to see him training at Mid-City. Both guys with great arms without balance in the rest of the physique. Bill got no mention in Muscle that i know of. Bill's arms were impressive though nowhere near the size claimed. He had a mental handicap which might've been part of why he was never featured, along with the fact of the physique imbalance. Still around Venice Beach; had some pics taken recently at a Venice contest including one with Bill Grant; unlike Grant he doesn't look like he still trains.
Rare pics of Bill and Samuels. This pic of Bill accompanied a mid-1970s article on him i remember reading when it came out.
Do a search on Pettis on Ironage for more info.
-
Some guys like Pettis and Larry Samuels in NY were off the radar, mentioned only in 1-2 articles in second-tier mags with virtually no pics taken. Samuels was huge, used to see him training at Mid-City. Both guys with great arms without balance in the rest of the physique. Bill got no mention in Muscle that i know of. Bill's arms were impressive though nowhere near the size claimed. He had a mental handicap which might've been part of why he was never featured, along with the fact of the physique imbalance. Still around Venice Beach; had some pics taken recently at a Venice contest including one with Bill Grant; unlike Grant he doesn't look like he still trains.
Rare pics of Bill and Samuels. This pic of Bill accompanied a mid-1970s article on him i remember reading when it came out.
Do a search on Pettis on Ironage for more info.
makes sense and pettis' balance issues obviously accentuated the unbelievable development in his arms. with the rock hard mass that he displays here it wouldn't surprise me if those arms were as strong as they look.
i've never even heard of samuels before, never mind seen him. he seems to have longer muscle bellies in his arms than sergio had. :o the tri bellies are so long it almost looks like the fat hang that the obese get on the back of their arms.
thanks for the info and pics pump.
-
Samuels' tris are unbelievable.
Petis was mentally handicapped?
-
petis also had a brother who was almost as big as him.
-
no diss on grant (his arms are fantastic), but it seems that his triceps lagged behind the biceps.
-
True, but like you said, still fantastic.
-
arms of the day
-
few more
-
Grant's arms were good but completely unbalanced. His bis though, always helped in his case even now by paper-thin skin and good definition.
-
grant was to be reputed as one of the few bodybuilders who didn't have to diet to get into top shape. even today at age 60 he's always in good shape.
-
robbie and beckles had crazy peaks.
lance dreher had great bis. wtf happened to him?
there has always been much talk about leroy having the largest natural arms of all time and the first man to build muscular 20" arms. some might disagree on the natural part.
-
robbie and beckles had crazy peaks.
lance dreher had great bis. wtf happened to him?
there has always been much talk about leroy having the largest natural arms of all time and the first man to build muscular 20" arms. some might disagree on the natural part.
Natural, yes ;D
Was he really the 1st documented bber to achieve 20in ?
-
Funk51,
Really great pics!
Ortiz in the last 1? Great find.
-
the oritz pic is from the 1968 pro mr universe nabba style.
-
Funk51,
Really great pics!
Ortiz in the last 1? Great find.
true, you can see freddy loved arms and chest day. ;D
-
true, you can see freddy loved arms and chest day. ;D
Wasnt big on leg day, huh? :-\
But, those were some arms.
-
cover shots
-
more cover shots
-
Great Photos. Pre Site oil days yes, But dont think for 1 sec that many of them were any stranger to frequent 3cc + of oil base juice in a arm at a sitting. It occupies space and stretches fascia. Where do you think the 1st synthol pioneers got the idea? I'm no fan of gross synthol use, but anyone who dont think plenty of these guys didnt stab arms often is kiddin themself. Remember juice was totally unregulated in the day.
-
Buts thats practically natural nowadays, trab... ;D
-
Buts thats practically natural nowadays, trab... ;D
Ya ;D... But dont underestimate how much some of the old Timers used too...
I ain't gona say who these quotes belong to...
"THe secret to BBing is NEVER WASTE A HYPO! If it holds 3cc it were meant to be filled w/ 3cc!".
And .. " Those cheap beginners weight sets should come w/ Deca and Dbol".
Monster dose dont allways equate to monster size. I think insulin & HGh protocols in the right guys genes is the reason for todays mass monsters. ANd I'll go along w/ anyone that thinks Bannout had top notch arms.
Theres a lot of bloat on many these guys even at contest today.
-
"THe secret to BBing is NEVER WASTE A HYPO! If it holds 3cc it were meant to be filled w/ 3cc!".
And .. " Those cheap beginners weight sets should come w/ Deca and Dbol".
Classic !
-
more cover shots
Some where in my basement I have a copy of that Muscle mag with Arnie doing a single bi shot on the cover in blue. It talks about the 72 olympia and has a bunch of contest photos in it
-
mike m
-
more mike m
-
If only MM had done more sets.... ;D
-
If only MM had done more sets.... ;D
I suspect he tried, and that was not what his body resoponded to best, we all get kind of pig headed about what do and dont work for us. It's real clear w/ steroids, almost every guy has 1 that acts totaly different for HIM from the norm. Ya got's to experimament & mix it up a bit to find whats best.
Then, some are just born for it, they can have a powerfull look'n bod w/ out ever touchin a weight.
Nice photos there.
-
Yeah, I realize HIT worked for Mentzer, just kidding, you know, more is better...
-
These guys were supermen of their day, thing is I feel w/today's info, supplements and knowledge, it's possible for many/most determined young guys to achive pretty close to that level of development safely w/ moderate aas use.
I think they looked great, Im not that crazy about Jays build, but that's what it takes today.
I't gonna be interesting see how long some of 'em live, I'm surprised they aint drop'n like flies allready.
-
the other end of the spectrim from mike mentzer the intensity or insanity guys john defendis and michilak
-
joe bucci
-
i think defendis did a little site injecting.
forgot about bucci. yes, he had some peaked arms.
-
Bucci had great arms.
(http://www.musclememory.com/magCovers/nbf/nbf0102.jpg)
-
Bucci had great arms.
(http://www.musclememory.com/magCovers/nbf/nbf0102.jpg)
not the 80's head band
-
Its color-coded with mag logo...
-
Some where in my basement I have a copy of that Muscle mag with Arnie doing a single bi shot on the cover in blue. It talks about the 72 olympia and has a bunch of contest photos in it
One of my earliest and fave purchases, early fall '73. Good articles in that one.
-
One of my earliest and fave purchases, early fall '73. Good articles in that one.
Excellent B&Ws if Sergio, Arnie, Nubret, Franco and Zane I believe was in some too. I should go dig it out of my basment for old time sake and scan some of the photos.
-
today's pics
-
several more
-
Joe lookin' at Arnie's Arm, thinkin'... That suckers gonna make me a lot of money!
-
brian buchanan - 20" arms on a 28" waist.
now that's genetics.
-
Real cool thread :) Thanks guys. Anybody have a Marlon Darton, Bronston Auston, or Gary Leonard pic?
T-
-
.
-
.
-
.
-
today's pics
-
a few more
-
Did Ricky Wayne have much success as a competitor?
Seemed to have retired pretty young. Was in good shape when writing for Weider.
-
Most of these dudes, Pettis on down, had better arms than today's pros. I get what pumpster was saying about Lee Priest lacking definition and refinement after looking at suck pics. Bucci's arms were on point.
-
Also genetic, imo, Priest due to short limbs, can only attain a certain blend of immense size and definition.
Remember, a lot of Priest pics are offseason, he does have some cross striations on the bis too.
Sergio due to movement limitations, also lacked sepration and definition (he could have otherwise acquired, not generally).
-
rick wayne had some success as competitor, however he was held back as was freddie oritz by a lack of comparable leg developement, he severly hurt his neck nerve damage when he tried to make a comeback when he was working for weider's mags.
-
monday's arms
-
fox had some great arms, big, thick and dense. it's got me fucked as to why he had so much difficulty retaining his trademark size when it came competition time. :-\
-
fox had some great arms, big, thick and dense. it's got me fucked as to why he had so much difficulty retaining his trademark size when it came competition time. :-\
I think Brutal was just a victim of his body not being in fassion at the time he was young. I consider him one of The Most ShortChanged BBers of all time. When it's clear that your never go too far, even when you know your superior,
it cant help w/ motivation. Yes he never seemed to really dial it in and get supper ripped, but in them days it was not to the standard we have now.
-
Yeah, for the time, he wasnt exactly off...
-
today's pics
-
I think Brutal was just a victim of his body not being in fassion at the time he was young. I consider him one of The Most ShortChanged BBers of all time. When it's clear that your never go too far, even when you know your superior,
it cant help w/ motivation. Yes he never seemed to really dial it in and get supper ripped, but in them days it was not to the standard we have now.
i agree, fox did seem to get the short end of the stick.
he just had so much thickness and density and his arms were unbelievable. pity he didn't get the comp down. it's like he was out of the loop drug wise or something when he was standing next to some of the other guys.
i don't know how many times he got ripped off but, to my way of thinking, if it was a racism thing why was haney winning every olympia during foxy's time. plus, fox got a lot of exposure in the mags etc. he was a fan favourite and, after sergio, he was my favourite bber as a kid.
-
Coe looks geat there.
Casey looks like hes letting out a mean fart.
-
Coe looks geat there.
Casey looks like hes letting out a mean fart.
considering casey was about 18yrs old in that pic, his limbs are off the scale. look at those fucking legs. :o
boyer was more complete obviously and had the advantage of muscle maturity and better shape. that pic was probably taken at arthur jones' ranch. coe stayed there a while and ended up embracing hit.
-
Love that Photo of Casey, talk about NO NECK! ;D
-
It was taken at Jones' compound, and yes, Viator had 19in arms at 19, which is his age there, very big guy. Still funny pose though... ;D
-
ha ha, you get the feeling that casey was never going to go for that frank zane statuesque symmetretical thing.
"JACK JOB, NOT NAME!" >:(
-
Fox was only one of many who were unfairly denied. Most ended up retiring or leaving the IFBB around that same time-Robinson, Fox, Szkalak, Padilla, Mentzer. In the case of the first three it was attitude as well as race; Weider understandably didn't want surly personalities representing the sport. Oliva was already cast out and competing against those guys in non-IFBB shows.
While i understand Weider's desire for winners with civility ie Zane, Dickerson, Bannout, Haney, it's a shame because with a little more compromise to the guys mentioned above as well as greater fairness Weider could've allowed BB to be a lot more interesting post-Schwarzenegger.
The above names could've taken turns deservedly winning Olympias instead of the so-so bunch that did. It would've allowed the development & retention of long-term rivalries that never lasted because of the political hijinks that led to the departure of most of the best BBs of the day. With that happening all these great BBs might stuck around till the mid-late 80s.
-
Good eye for politics pump, I allways suspected Bertil didn't fit into the corporate world very well, racism
don't fly w/ me, Weider didn't seem racist, although a white champ was more valuable to him.
-
Like me, Weiders are Canadian and less prone to color. What they were concerned with was magazine & supplement sales, for which well mannered BBs were of course more appealing, white if possible.
-
Fox was only one of many who were unfairly denied. Most ended up retiring or leaving the IFBB around that same time-Robinson, Fox, Szkalak, Padilla, Mentzer. In the case of the first three it was attitude as well as race; Weider understandably didn't want surly personalities representing the sport. Oliva was already cast out and competing against those guys in non-IFBB shows.
While i understand Weider's desire for winners with civility ie Zane, Dickerson, Bannout, Haney, it's a shame because with a little more compromise to the guys mentioned above as well as greater fairness Weider could've allowed BB to be a lot more interesting post-Schwarzenegger.
The above names could've taken turns deservedly winning Olympias instead of the so-so bunch that did. It would've allowed the development & retention of long-term rivalries that never lasted because of the political hijinks that led to the departure of most of the best BBs of the day. With that happening all these great BBs might stuck around till the mid-late 80s.
good post
i actually think weider and his anal retentive politics did more to retard bbing than progressing it.
i don't pretend to know which one was the bigger fuck up, ben or joe. i tend to think ben. he seemed completely deluded on what bbing was all about. in fact, when i look at ben i have no idea why he was involved with bbing in the 1st place. i may be wrong, but he seemed to have napoleon syndrome.
the funny thing is that, apart from joe bringing arnold to usa, arnold did EVERYTHING to promote bbing from his own back. he was simply that type of personality that would not be denied. i actually think, if anything, joe and ben tried to hold him back at times, probably felt he was getting too big for his boots, but arnold was relentless. he knew that if he got the public on side no one could stop him. it worked and he's been doing it ever since. ben and joe just went along for the ride and they're still attempting to squeeze that ride dry (arnold still makes the covers ::)) don't you think it's interesting that, despite arnold's admission of steroid use and his nazi heritage, the public loved him and still do. that's because he never took these things or himself too seriously. he got out there, people knew what to expect and THAT'S WHY he was never treated like a freak. why was/is this never done with the others ??? as far as the public know they are all locked up in a gym with 15 needles sticking out of their glutes.
you would think that the weiders didn't learn a thing from arnold, but i believe they did. however, joe and ben have enormous egos themselves and were bitter that they were almost completely ignored by arnold and everyone that was backing him, including the general public. i believe ben claimed the olympic games participation thing as his baby and he believed that was his ticket to recognition. alas, it wasn't to be so they settled for stupid monikers like 'father of bbing', 'inventer of weider principles' and that stupid profile of his head atop a muscular body ::) on every weider product.
i believe weider MADE CERTAIN that no bber would rise above them again and thus the monopoly and stifling of any personality that came along after arnold.
arnold's near idebtical twin in boxing was ali. ali was equally relentless and became a celebrity far bigger than boxing. again, they tried to stifle him (vietnam war, etc) but his charisma would not be denied. he, like arnold, learnt extremely fast what the public wanted.
here's where the comparison ends. don king has just as big an ego as joe/ben but he didn't have a monopoly. he didn't like playing second fiddle and the guys in his stable were largely subdued (larry holmes), but he would simply latch on to whatever star personality came to the fore (tyson) and simply steal them right from under their previous manager. king really is a sight to behold. he will quite literally step over his fallen gladiator, completely ignoring him on the canvas, and walk straight over to the new champion praising him as if he was a god.
guys like fox, oliva, nubret, strydom, platz, eddie robinson (robbie too introverted imo), levrone, priest, ray, flex should have been huge celebrities, each bringing a different character, bit of drama ie (back to boxing) tyson was a completely different persona to ali, but both were HUGE box office. i believe weider should have put his full backing behind these guys. it was there for the taking. you had 'the myth', 'brutal', the 'golden eagle', 'the black panther', but unfortunately stars were only known to the bbing community and, even then, you rarely heard from them. that's because weider had them tightly reigned in. arnold got out there and got in everyone's face.
weider should have given them plenty of room to flourish. vince mcmahon had the right idea but his support network and timing was wayyy off. the supplement companies (backers) loved the idea, but:
1. he had second rate bbers. stifled, oh sooo politically correct entities don't make good rebels ie god fearing brothers like haney and coleman DON'T complain, do they ronnie? jay? ::) there's a reason guys like this rise to the top of the ifbb. ;)
2. timing - he was under huge political pressure to present a 'clean' image and take it seriously (funny how weider wasn't, but then he was a regular at the oval office wasn't he? ;)) and what came next was a bunch of bbers with conditioning that wouldn't have got a look in at the mr idaho. exit stage left, supplement companies, exit stage right, wbf.
foot note: none of those bbers EVER gained favour or success again (in bbing), despite some paying up the ridiculous penalties imposed for their return, and people wonder why no one of any calibre followed lee. lee should have studied up more on bbing political history.
thanks for your time. i know it was a little long, but i feel for these guys. they put it ALL on the line for their chosen sport and all they ever get for it was SHIT. to say that bbing champions are nothing more than drug monsters is disingenuous, degrading and, imo, motivated by an innate sense of fear and jealousy.
rant over.
-
You HAVE to give the Weiders credit. They were the master marketers who lifted BB from an ancillary to weight lifting events in YMCAs and elevated the awareness through better quality mags and excellent promotion. Make no mistake, no matter Arnold's natural talents, they were developed alongside the master Joe Weider. BTW it was Joe Wedier, Joe Gold and Arnold's gay businessman friend from Europe who steered Arnold through the initial years, including suggestions to buy real estate.
Joe Weider also ensured that his protege had a great life the first few years, regardless of Arnold's revisionist rhetoric now about being "an immigrant with nothing upon arrival in the States". LOL he had a car, an apartment, didn't have to work and spent his time in fun city Venice Beach in a great time to be there, late 60s and 70s training and tanning in between magazine covers and training articles. Coming from a far more austere climate in Austria AND suddenly amongst guys he used to see in mags like Draper, Arnold knew he was in heaven, no doubt about it. I'll take it!
-
You HAVE to give the Weiders credit. They were the master marketers who lifted BB from an ancillary to weight lifting events in backrooms and elevated the awareness through better quality mags and excellent promotion. Make no mistake: no matter what Arnold's natural talents in promotions were, he learned from the master Joe Weider. BTW it was Joe Wedier, Joe Gold and Arnold's gay businessman friend from Europe that steered Arnold through the initial years, including suggestions to buy real estate.
Joe Weider also ensured that his protege had a great life the first few years, regardless of Arnold's revisionist rhetoric now about being "an immigrant with nothing upon arrival in the States". LOL he had a car, an apartment, didn't have to work and spent his time in fun city Venice Beach in the 60s and 70s training and tanning in between magazine covers and training articles! I'll take it!
joe was smart enough to know that arnold was his meal ticket. his charisma, physique. arnold already had the map and plan before he even left austria. it was well known that arnold said he was going to win the olympia, get into american movies and then go into politics before he left austria.
even when he was making it big in movies, i remember people laughing at the thought of him running for office. doesn't seem so funny now. :-\
the question is, why didn't it ever happen again. again, it is my opinion that joe had plenty of personalities to make it happen. hell, platz, for example, was bursting at the seems. levrone had to completely remove himself from bbing first and these guys are the 'heroes' (ali, leonard). what about the 'antiheroes' (tyson, dempsey) like fox, priest?
there were plenty of characters in bbing that would have sold.
the weiders went part of the way but they never got over the arnold snub. as i said in prev post, i think it was moreso ben though.
-
Dislike them but the Weiders were the biggest reason for BBs success, along with Schwarzenegger. One not bigger than the other; Schwarzenegger and the rest of the BBs of the era were exposed through Weider's promotions and then again the Weider-centric skew of Pumping Iron. Weider chose Schwarzenegger and jettisoned Oliva precisely because they already knew what they wanted and needed the right guy.
Several reasons why it hasn't been replicated: (1) already happened - the fitness explosion happened for a multitude of reasons in the 70s, could only blow up once, (2) they might not have been as motivated to elevate someone else in the 80s onwards, having already achieved huge success, (3) most or all of the guys since then are lacking something. Levrone's a dummy, Jay's a stiff, Coleman's fine but not dynamic, etc. Gunter's the only one IMO who could elevate it a bit more, but maybe not considered physically good enough, though i'm surprised he's not more well-known.
To elevate BB right now they not only have to find better personalities they also have to widen the viewership as happened in the 70s. One of the ways, something that's been neglected, is world's strongest man. Put some top guys in that and you broaden awareness far beyond the normal BB ghettos. I mentioned this to Brian, Coleman's mentor a while ago and i hope they do it while he's still able instead of more unwinnable Olympias that tarnish his rep.
-
the weiders were parasites from the beginning, when joe saw a body he liked he would put his head on top of the body and say it was his. i believe he first did this with clancy ross's body. he leeched onto dave draper paying him between 150 to 200 dollars a week to work in the weider warehouses, while at the same time using drapers image to sell mags, low grade supplements, and junky gym equipment. he loosen the purse strings when arnold s came along realizing the greater rewards he could reap thanks to arnold's outgoing personality.
-
weider as he really was won't inspire anyone, as well as not sell any mags. in the mister u w pants on.
-
back to arms
-
They were parasites BUT were also superior promoters to anything else in BB. That's life.
What Joe's physique was like has nothing to do with it.
-
Dislike them but the Weiders were the biggest reason for BBs success, along with Schwarzenegger. One not bigger than the other; Schwarzenegger and the rest of the BBs of the era were exposed through Weider's promotions and then again the Weider-centric skew of Pumping Iron. Weider chose Schwarzenegger and jettisoned Oliva precisely because they already knew what they wanted and needed the right guy.
Several reasons why it hasn't been replicated: (1) already happened - the fitness explosion happened for a multitude of reasons in the 70s, could only blow up once, (2) they might not have been as motivated to elevate someone else in the 80s onwards, having already achieved huge success, (3) most or all of the guys since then are lacking something. Levrone's a dummy, Jay's a stiff, Coleman's fine but not dynamic, etc. Gunter's the only one IMO who could elevate it a bit more, but maybe not considered physically good enough, though i'm surprised he's not more well-known.
To elevate BB right now they not only have to find better personalities they also have to widen the viewership as happened in the 70s. One of the ways, something that's been neglected, is world's strongest man. Put some top guys in that and you broaden awareness far beyond the normal BB ghettos. I mentioned this to Brian, Coleman's mentor a while ago and i hope they do it while he's still able instead of more unwinnable Olympias that tarnish his rep.
i disagree with you here. why were guys like oliva, nubret, fox shunned?
black bbers almost had to act like slaves (haney, coleman) or gay (dickerson) to get any play form weider. arnold did whatever the fuck he wanted, including stiff the weiders on numerous occasions.
we both no very well that if nubret was given anywhere near equal treatment to arnold he would have made zane look like a truck driver.
oliva and bertil were already a sell. every single person i've ever seen exposed to these guys have been awestruck by there proportions. why did joe pay arnold's way from austria and cultivate him through the early size obsessed years and jettison oliva, who already had the whole package and then some (taper, small waist) and why settle for the mercedes (zane) when he had the lambourghini diablo (nubret) right there in the wings? it sure wasn't charisma. let's face it, zane was about as inept as cutler on this frontier.
imo, the weiders very obviously had some agendas that were more about them and their own 'ideals' than actually promoting the sport and it's personalities.
eg. tom platz was a HUGE personality after arnold. now he's selling soiled underwear and trophies ??? hell of a retirement package don't ya think? :-[
-
without the weiders pro bbing as we know it won't exist. but without vince k mcmahon, weider would probably be giving a cheap mazola crown and 1000 dollars for prize money. weider only competition back in the day was only bob hoffman who treated bbing like a red headed step child and later dan lurie, who was weiders former business partner. interesting while arnold s was weiders boy lurie pushed a young lou ferrigno as arnold's rival. lurie was always interesting how his obnoxious personality could get under everyone's skin. you have to give him credit though calling out first hoffman than weider to compete in a bbing contest against him , of course both declined as lurie was an accomplished builder ref www.musclememory.com.
-
without the weiders pro bbing as we know it won't exist. but without vince k mcmahon, weider would probably be giving a cheap mazola crown and 1000 dollars for prize money. weider only competition back in the day was only bob hoffman who treated bbing like a red headed step child and later dan lurie, who was weiders former business partner. interesting while arnold s was weiders boy lurie pushed a young lou ferrigno as arnold's rival. lurie was always interesting how his obnoxious personality could get under everyone's skin. you have to give him credit though calling out first hoffman than weider to compete in a bbing contest against him , of course both declined as lurie was an accomplished builder ref www.musclememory.com.
yes, compared to hoffman, weider was good for bbing and compared to attilla the hun hitler was very moderate.
didn't know about lurie's challenge. smart move there, but backing ferrigno against arnold wasn't. he was completely outclassed in every way.
-
I've seen several shots of Hoffmann doing that vacuum thing, whats up with that?
-
lol, lurie's more bowlegged than columbu. still, he looks like a greek statue compared to hoffman and weider. :-X
i've never been a fan of the vacuum and some people should, frankly, be locked up for doing it in public. hoffman was one of those people.
-
i don't pretend to know which one was the bigger fuck up, ben or joe. i tend to think ben. he seemed completely deluded on what bbing was all about. in fact, when i look at ben i have no idea why he was involved with bbing in the 1st place. i may be wrong, but he seemed to have napoleon syndrome.
(http://www.r22er.com/pages/Bal_Militaire/weider.gif)
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1360000/images/_1364994_weider150ap.jpg)
-
(http://www.r22er.com/pages/Bal_Militaire/weider.gif)
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1360000/images/_1364994_weider150ap.jpg)
hahaha...that's a fucking classic!
thanks Figo. did you shop them?
-
couple more pics
-
hahaha...that's a fucking classic!
thanks Figo. did you shop them?
No, BEAST, these are "originals". I'm gonna try find the one where he has full Napoleon attire on. I dont know if you know, Ben is a full-on Napoleon Bonaparte freak, he is president of some society, owns the biggest collection of Napoleon artifacts, even wrote a book.
Thats why it took so long for the IOC to give that "ok-you-can-come-and-play-with-us-but-only-when-nobody-is-watching-status". He's too busy playing dress-up. I dont wanna know what Joe does...
They're both too busy, for too long now. They've exploited enough bbers, and made enough cash.
Its true Gunther, Roland or even Rolf Moeller could have maybe done it, filled Arnold's void.
But now, its too late. The game has evolved to true freaks which wont appeal to anyone.
Back in Arnold's day, he was the freak, and people could still handle it, but now its on another level, a comical level. Also, communication skills help, which Haney had, but S.Ray and Labrada excelled at.
Back to arms, that Pastel pic reminded me of the great physique he had.
(http://www.planetemuscle.com/phpBB2/files/pastel.jpg)
Unbelievable arms and abs, tiny waist.
-
(http://www.napoleonicsociety.com/images/bookcover_weider3.jpg)
(http://www.napoleonicsociety.com/images/bookcover_weider4.jpg)
-
No, BEAST, these are "originals". I'm gonna try find the one where he has full Napoleon attire on. I dont know if you know, Ben is a full-on Napoleon Bonaparte freak, he is president of some society, owns the biggest collection of Napoleon artifacts, even wrote a book.
Thats why it took so long for the IOC to give that "ok-you-can-come-and-play-with-us-but-only-when-nobody-is-watching-status". He's too busy playing dress-up. I dont wanna know what Joe does...
They're both too busy, for too long now. They've exploited enough bbers, and made enough cash.
Its true Gunther, Roland or even Rolf Moeller could have maybe done it, filled Arnold's void.
But now, its too late. The game has evolved to true freaks which wont appeal to anyone.
Back in Arnold's day, he was the freak, and people could still handle it, but now its on another level, a comical level. Also, communication skills help, which Haney had, but S.Ray and Labrada excelled at.
Back to arms, that Pastel pic reminded me of the great physique he had.
(http://img66.exs.cx/img66/7815/1994_Mr_O_Pastel_2.jpg)
Unbelievable arms and abs, tiny waist.
very true, but i wonder if the physiques really have become too freaky.
arnold had about the same freak value back in the day, but the big difference was, he made himself accessable to the public. he ingratiated himself in such a way that he actually laughed with them. while gironda, ross and scott were talking about taking 400 liver tablets and 5 gallons of milk a day, arnold was saying, "fuck that, i drink beer and smoke cigars. milk is for calves and i've never seen a liver tablet."
yes, he was bullshitting the whole time, but no more than, say, larry scott who kept up the fascade, "no, i've never taking steroids. i just started drinking milk and rheo blairs and boom, my arms went from 14 to 20" ::) of course, devout christians never lie and neither did larry until he finally made a confession 20 years after he retired with "just 20mgs of dianabol per day, honest." yeah, right larry, we'll believe you again, sure why not.
why did guys like rolf and levrone have to quit bbing altogether to make movies, while arnold actually came out of retirment from bbing competition to prepare for movie roles? something askew there. i believe bbing just lost contact with the general public (where arnold had paved the way) and i believe the reason for that is because the weiders have done everything they can to eliminate personalities and individualism (arnold) and, because of the arnold snub, he has sent bbers back to the gym cult like naughty school kids. i mean, just look at these guys and how they behave, 'father of bbing', weider this and weider that, busks with other people's bodies propping a ridiculously narcisistic self portrait.
weider was never going to risk another arnold (bigger than him) even it meant costing future promotion of the sport. it's not like he needed the money. he was defrauding billions with his supplement empire.
-
(http://body.builder.hu/images/WeiderJoe.JPG)
-
(http://body.builder.hu/images/WeiderJoe.JPG)
hahaha, there you go.
merely with pics you've illustrated everything i've written. the napoleon thing still has me laughing.
a pic truly is worth a thousand words.
cool, Figo 8)
-
You guys are interpreting things the way you like just to come to conclusions that suit your justifiable dislike of the Weiders.
-Ben has a great Napoleon collection and even received a medal from the Canadian government for it. What's wrong with a passion for something? No problem there.
-As far as Nubret instead of Zane, Nubret was running his own contests that sometimes rivaled Weider, which is probably why he unaccountably didn't appear after '75 when he would've beaten Columbu or Zane, just as Oliva or Fox should've not to mention Robinson.
-Add to that the fact that Nubret did some porns in France, quite acceptable over there.
-AND the fact he was black - why let a black guy win if there's a choice, when most of your readership's white and would prefer someone they could better relate to? Nothing to do with personality, in the Weider's eyes it was likely just a pragmatic decision based on general readership demographics and resultant magazine and supplement sales. Keeping in mind that back then the exposure was through the mags that relied only the visual: charisma really was irrelevant for magazine covers, articles and supplement ads.
And those are only the obvious ones. There's no point in trying to argue this, i'm giving solid reasons without anyone here knowing the behind the scenes.
-
arms of the day
-
In those last shots you can really tell the era of each from the hair. Mullets anyone? :-*
-
You know, the Weiders, love them, hate them, they've done a lot.
Back to arms:
(http://preachercurl.ericsgym.com/mentzer.jpg)
-
and more
-
Frankly these Guys look better than the Insulin Monsters. Its getting a bit gross to a extent.
No site Oil, no clen, No Ai's, precious little HGh,. We'll see how long these Big boys today live.
No guarantees in life for anyone, but it's gone pretty far.
-
Wow :o
Wayne had great arms, great shape.
-
today's
-
i'm trying to work out why leo costa is in there?
are you leo funk?
if you are, that's cool. he had a great physique. got busted for some roid distribution rap back in the 90's, but had some very good ideas re training.
he learnt some things from the bulgarian sytem and tried to apply it to bbing ie 'serious growth' principles.
it was innovative, insightful and somewhat revolutionary considering that, with yates bringing hit well and truly back into the spotlight, 'serious growth' went completely in the other direction ie 6 days pw, 3 times per day, etc and costa had the physique to back his talk which is always refreshing. i actually tried it and made great gains naturally. only problem was that i ended not having time and motivation (stuffed from all the training) to do all the training sports specific training that i was supposed to be doing.
-
i'm trying to work out why leo costa is in there?
are you leo funk?
if you are, that's cool. he had a great physique. got busted for some roid distribution rap back in the 90's, but had some very good ideas re training.
he learnt some things from the bulgarian sytem and tried to apply it to bbing ie 'serious growth' principles.
it was innovative, insightful and somewhat revolutionary considering that, with yates bringing hit well and truly back into the spotlight, 'serious growth' went completely in the other direction ie 6 days pw, 3 times per day, etc and costa had the physique to back his talk which is always refreshing. i actually tried it and made great gains naturally. only problem was that i ended not having time and motivation (stuffed from all the training) to do all the training sports specific training that i was supposed to be doing.
Not power factor?
-
i'm trying to work out why leo costa is in there?
are you leo funk?
if you are, that's cool. he had a great physique. got busted for some roid distribution rap back in the 90's, but had some very good ideas re training.
he learnt some things from the bulgarian sytem and tried to apply it to bbing ie 'serious growth' principles.
it was innovative, insightful and somewhat revolutionary considering that, with yates bringing hit well and truly back into the spotlight, 'serious growth' went completely in the other direction ie 6 days pw, 3 times per day, etc and costa had the physique to back his talk which is always refreshing. i actually tried it and made great gains naturally. only problem was that i ended not having time and motivation (stuffed from all the training) to do all the training sports specific training that i was supposed to be doing.
Some guys have pointed out that, the East block and Soviets, hand picked only the Most Genetic superior to train.
That the average guy has little chance of holding up to that volume and intensity.
I tried 6 days wk in my 20s and it quickly became overkill. And, I was practically indestructible then.
-
no i'm not leo costa put him on because he was one of the strongest bbers ever. and today's arms
-
today's
-
Not power factor?
no, not power factor Figo. i believe that was little and sisco cashing in on partial rep training which, of course, strength athletes have known about since hercules was a boy.
funk, what makes you believe leo costa 'was one of the strongest bodybuilders ever'?
-
no, not power factor Figo. i believe that was little and sisco cashing in on partial rep training which, of course, strength athletes have known about since hercules was a boy.
funk, what makes you believe leo costa 'was one of the strongest bodybuilders ever'?
Yes, De Mayo was poster boy, right?
Wasnt Platz affiliated to Costa's system?
-
i read in an old mag that costa was supposed to be strong.
-
more