Author Topic: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit  (Read 1341 times)

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ABC News Exclusive: National Security Adviser Says President Obama Is Having Greater Success Taking Terrorists Out of Commission Than Bush Did
by Jake Tapper

Responding to criticism from former Vice President Cheney that President Obama is making the nation more vulnerable to terrorism, the president’s National Security Adviser, Gen. Jim Jones (Ret.), told ABC News in an exclusive interview that actually the reverse is true: President Obama’s greater success with international relations has meant more terrorists put out of commission.

“This type of radical fundamentalism or terrorism is a threat not only to the United States but to the global community,” Jones said. “The world is coming together on this matter now that President Obama has taken the leadership on it and is approaching it in a slightly different way – actually a radically different way – to discuss things with other rulers to enhance the working relationships with law enforcement agencies – both national and international."

Jones said that “we are seeing results that indicate more captures, more deaths of radical leaders and a kind of a global coming-together by the fact that this is a threat to not only the United States but to the world at-large and the world is moving toward doing something about it.

The former Marine General didn't provide any specific numbers to back up his claim, but he said “there is an increasing trend and I think we seen that in different parts of the world over the last few months for sure.” He added that he was not “making a tally sheet saying we are killing more people, capturing more people than they did -- that is not the issue.”

But the numbers are going up, he said.  “The numbers of high value targets that we are successfully reaching out to or identifying through good intelligence” from both the CIA and intelligence agencies from US allies has made the difference, he said. “We have better human intelligence; we know where the terrorists are moving. Because of the dialogue and the tone of the dialogue between us and our friends and allies...the trend line against terrorism is positive, and that’s what we want. If we have a positive trend line we have a safer country.”

Jones made his comments the day after Mr. Cheney said he has “serious doubts” about the extent to which President Obama “understands and is prepared to do what needs to be done to defend the nation.” Cheney assailed the decision by Attorney General Eric Holder to begin a preliminary investigation into whether any CIA officers went beyond what they were told was legally permissible in interrogating detainees.

“It's an outrageous precedent to set, to have this kind of, I think, intensely partisan, politicized look-back at the prior administration,” Cheney said.

Jones dismissed questions that the investigation was the result of political pressure and said “people that were acting within the law don’t have anything to worry about.”

“Obviously the former Vice President feels strongly about certain things,” Jones said, “I don’t know if it is a question of legacy.”

“I take exception” to assertions “that something that we decided or the president decided will make the country less safe,” Jones said. “I just don’t agree with that.  We are about making this country safe.  I think that we are fashioning global relationships with other countries around the world.”

“We are doing everything to make this country safe every single day,” Jones asserted.

Jones didn’t buy Cheney’s argument that the effectiveness of the Bush-Cheney counterterrorism policies are proven in the fact that the U.S. didn’t experience any terrorist attacks on U.S. soil after September 11, 2001. “It’s very easy to leave office and say, ‘Well, no other disaster happened on the size and scope of 9/11, so we did our job well.’  Well, maybe they did, maybe they didn’t.”
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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2009, 09:42:21 AM »
Obama won in Iraq.

Obama bumped up the troops in afghanistan to go after the bad guys from 911 that were given a pass for the last 8 years.

He's also kept us safe from attacks - something Bush wasn't able to do.

Kazan

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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2009, 09:47:35 AM »
Obama won in Iraq.

Obama bumped up the troops in Afghanistan to go after the bad guys from 911 that were given a pass for the last 8 years.

He's also kept us safe from attacks - something Bush wasn't able to do.


How did Obama win in Iraq? He opposed the surge, which by the way is what won Iraq.

Yes they were given a pass for 8 years ::), you really are drunk on the koolaid aren't you, Do you really believe Al Queda leadership is in Afghanistan?

I'm not even going to get into this with you because you are a 9/11 CT'er


For fuck sake you are going to give Obama credit for Iraq when he opposed every move made there, you know what when I first started posting here you actually had something to contribute, now you are just another rat mesmerized by the pied piper of DC


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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2009, 09:51:05 AM »
How did Obama win in Iraq? He opposed the surge, which by the way is what won Iraq.

Jun 20, 2009 ... BAGHDAD: Iraq's leader declared victory Saturday as the country began to end a foreign occupation with the withdrawal of US combat troops

We won baby.



Yes they were given a pass for 8 years ::), you really are drunk on the koolaid aren't you, Do you really believe Al Queda leadership is in Afganistan?

He magically escaped when trapped in tora bora as all our generals screamed on every network.  unexplainable.   Then, he gets to release videos endorsing john Kerry and other dems.  And Bush called off an attack which would have gotten him in 2005 because he didn't want to undermine musharraf.

Bush might have went at Bin laden with 80%... but it sounds like obama is going with 95%.

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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2009, 09:51:31 AM »

How did Obama win in Iraq? He opposed the surge, which by the way is what won Iraq.

Yes they were given a pass for 8 years ::), you really are drunk on the koolaid aren't you, Do you really believe Al Queda leadership is in Afghanistan?

I'm not even going to get into this with you because you are a 9/11 CT'er


For fuck sake you are going to give Obama credit for Iraq when he opposed every move made there, you know what when I first started posting here you actually had something to contribute, now you are just another rat mesmerized by the pied piper of DC

240 is becoming worse than ever.

Obama did not win shit.  

The surge which he opposed is what quelled the violence.  


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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2009, 09:53:54 AM »
240 is becoming worse than ever.

Obama did not win shit.  

The surge which he opposed is what quelled the violence.  

We won on obama's watch.  When other said he'd quit the war or run away.  He stood strong, and our bases are there now to keep us safe from evildoers.

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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 09:54:23 AM »
Jun 20, 2009 ... BAGHDAD: Iraq's leader declared victory Saturday as the country began to end a foreign occupation with the withdrawal of US combat troops

We won baby.



He magically escaped when trapped in tora bora as all our generals screamed on every network.  unexplainable.   Then, he gets to release videos endorsing john Kerry and other dems.  And Bush called off an attack which would have gotten him in 2005 because he didn't want to undermine musharraf.

Bush might have went at Bin laden with 80%... but it sounds like obama is going with 95%.

So we won in Iraq despite Obama?

Have you seen Tora Bora? How many years have they had to build tunnels escape route etc while the rest of the world ignored them. Yeah his escape was magical.
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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 09:56:41 AM »
We won on obama's watch.  When other said he'd quit the war or run away.  He stood strong, and our bases are there now to keep us safe from evildoers.


That right there is some funny shit, won on Obama's watch.
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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2009, 10:31:02 AM »
Cheney is nothing more than a bitter liar who can't stand the fact that he isn't in power any longer.

Total douchebag.

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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2009, 10:40:31 AM »
Cheney is nothing more than a bitter liar who can't stand the fact that he isn't in power any longer.

Total douchebag.
why does obama lie?

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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2009, 11:21:22 AM »
Jun 20, 2009 ... BAGHDAD: Iraq's leader declared victory Saturday as the country began to end a foreign occupation with the withdrawal of US combat troops

We won baby.



He magically escaped when trapped in tora bora as all our generals screamed on every network.  unexplainable.   Then, he gets to release videos endorsing john Kerry and other dems.  And Bush called off an attack which would have gotten him in 2005 because he didn't want to undermine musharraf.

Bush might have went at Bin laden with 80%... but it sounds like obama is going with 95%.


Its easy for dumbass civilians who've never traveled out of their home state to tell us all where OBL is or what happened at Tora Bora.....U have no idea, as usual, what ur talking about. Barry had zero...ZERO to do with Iraq. If he had his way we'd have iulled out. He's fucking up Afghanistan.
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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2009, 11:23:30 AM »
As for Jones...he's trying to keep his job. They were going to bounce him because he didn't agree with the admin but Barry can't afford those issues.
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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2009, 11:47:10 AM »
How exactly did Jones shut down Cheney?  He just disagreed with him.  What else is Jones supposed to say?   ::)

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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2009, 11:52:13 AM »
Thank U...this guy is doing his job. There is waay more to this then we know but Jones is being loyal to his boss. There have been articles that he's been marginalized in both the Post and Times and that he's not happy with the Admin. Barry can't, at this point, afford to loose him. He's doing his job.
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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2009, 11:54:01 AM »
Ok,Obama won in Iraq.Then the economy is 100% his fault.As is unemployment.Its under his watch baby.Shy high unemployment,no consumer confidence,trillion dollar deficits.Thats Obamas watch baby.HE SUCKS!!!

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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2009, 11:54:48 AM »
I think 240 is getting stimulus money to prop of Obama on getbig. 

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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2009, 12:04:45 PM »
I think 240 is getting stimulus money to prop of Obama on getbig. 

another useful form of stimulus is all the hot girls without jobs who are forced to do porn for ever-shrinking salaries.

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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2009, 12:19:45 PM »
Thank U...this guy is doing his job. There is waay more to this then we know but Jones is being loyal to his boss. There have been articles that he's been marginalized in both the Post and Times and that he's not happy with the Admin. Barry can't, at this point, afford to loose him. He's doing his job.

Yep.  Agree.

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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2009, 12:21:07 PM »
Ok,Obama won in Iraq.Then the economy is 100% his fault.As is unemployment.Its under his watch baby.Shy high unemployment,no consumer confidence,trillion dollar deficits.Thats Obamas watch baby.HE SUCKS!!!

Good point.   :)  Giving Obama credit for winning the war in Iraq (lol) means you blame him for the economy. 

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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2009, 12:42:20 PM »

Its easy for dumbass civilians who've never traveled out of their home state to tell us all where OBL is or what happened at Tora Bora.....U have no idea, as usual, what ur talking about. Barry had zero...ZERO to do with Iraq. If he had his way we'd have iulled out. He's fucking up Afghanistan.

were you at tora bora

headhuntersix

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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2009, 04:43:28 PM »
Nope...I walked the ground in 2006. I served with guys who were there...Ive seen the official case studies and after action reports that resulted. In other words, I know the ground, and know the folks invloved.
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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2009, 04:47:55 PM »
Its safe to say that at this point barry has lost the Indy's. Now he has to decide if he wants to get re-elected or win in Afghanistan. All things being equal right now, he can't do both and maintain the base.


White House officials are increasingly worried liberal, anti-war Democrats will demand a premature end to the Afghanistan war before President Barack Obama can show signs of progress in the eight-year conflict, according to senior administration sources.
These fears, which the officials have discussed on the condition of anonymity over the past few weeks, are rising fast after U.S. casualties hit record levels in July and August.

The aides also expressed concern that Afghan election returns, still being tallied, will result in a narrow reelection for President Hamid Karzai that could result in qualms about his legitimacy — “Tehran II,” as one official put it, in reference to the disputed Iranian election.

The result: some think Afghanistan — not health care — will be the issue that defines the early years of the Obama administration.

“There’s no question that the drumbeat is going to get louder and louder on the left, and you’ll see some fall-off on the right,” said Matt Bennett of the think tank Third Way, the moderate voice of the progressive movement. “His supporters on the Hill are fighting a really serious political battle to keep the criticism under control.”
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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2009, 04:55:55 PM »
FRom a milblog

or all the rhetoric about Afghanistan being "the 'good' war" and where we should be concentrating the fight that we heard during the campaign, it really comes as no surprise to me that politicians, the chattering class, and the liberal left is now pitching abandonment of the effort there just when we are seriously considering that which is necessary to turn the fight around.

The problem?

As usual it has to do with political will. The new commander, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, has done his assessment of the situation and has rendered his report.

"The situation in Afghanistan is serious, but success is achievable and demands a revised implementation strategy, commitment and resolve, and increased unity of effort."
Read that carefully - two words in particular are aimed primarily at one particular sphere of influence - the political. What McChrystal is saying to the political community is, "I think we can be successful if we follow the revised strategy I've set forward, but without the "commitment and resolve" from the political community to see this through, it will all be for naught."
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Re: Nat'l Security Advisor General Jim Jones Shuts Down Chaney's Bullshit
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2009, 05:00:22 PM »
I don't agree with everything but its a pretty good article.


Anthony Cordesman, who was involved in McChrystal's assessment, delivers what I would characterize as a pretty succinct and honest appraisal of why we're in the situation we're in now:
The most critical reason has been resources. Between 2002 and 2008 the United States never provided the forces, money or leadership necessary to win, effectively wasting more than half a decade.

Our country left a power vacuum in most of Afghanistan that the Taliban and other jihadist insurgents could exploit and occupy, and Washington did not respond when the U.S. Embassy team in Kabul requested more resources. The Bush administration gave priority to sending forces to Iraq, it blustered about the successes of civilian aid efforts in Afghanistan that were grossly undermanned and underresourced, and it did not react to the growing corruption of Hamid Karzai's government or the major problems created by national caveats and restrictions on the use of allied forces and aid.

It treated Pakistan as an ally when it was clear to U.S. experts on the scene that the Pakistani military and intelligence service did (and do) tolerate al-Qaeda and Afghan sanctuaries and still try to manipulate Afghan Pashtuns to Pakistan's advantage.

Further, it never developed an integrated civil-military plan or operational effort even within the U.S. team in Afghanistan; left far too much of the aid effort focused on failed development programs; and denied the reality of insurgent successes in ways that gave insurgents the initiative well into 2009.
Like it or not, Afghanistan has been the second priority when it came to resources. Turning it around is going to take both time and more resources - something, if you read the pundits and politicians today, many are not willing to do.

Cordesman says that "most experts" agree that US troop levels in Afghanistan need to be increased by "three to eight more brigade combat teams". But he also stresses that those BCTs would primarily be engaged in training Afghan troops and making them "full partners rather than tools". The need for that training is past critical and was highlighted as a problem when 4,000 plus Marines pushed into Helmand province and only 600 Afghan troops (around a battalion) were able to participate.

However Cordesman's last point about civil-military plans is just as critical and just as on-point. These programs are critical and lacking. A big plus up in that area is required to turn the situation around. Militarily, what we must do is "take, hold and keep the Afghan population secure". Classic COIN.

Just as important but glaringly lacking at the moment is the other and equally important side of the process:
ecure local governance and economic activity to give Afghans reason to trust their government and allied forces. They must build the provincial, district and local government capabilities that the Kabul government cannot and will not build for them. No outcome of the recent presidential election can make up for the critical flaws in a grossly overcentralized government that is corrupt, is often a tool of power brokers and narco-traffickers, and lacks basic capacity in virtually every ministry.
Hamid Karzai is nothing more than the mayor of Kabul in reality. One of the critical tasks we faced and overcame in Iraq was teaching Iraqis at every level how to build those necessary government capabilities and then link them all together in a single functioning entity. While certainly not perfect, it provided a decent basis for governance that they've been able to assess and refine as they've gained experience.

That task has yet to be done in Afghanistan. And it may never be done either.

 Why?

Because the "good war" that the left claimed was legitimate and necessary to fight is suddenly neither.

We're now treated to daily editorials and op/eds wondering if Afghanistan is Obama's Vietnam or whether we find ourselves in yet another "quagmire". And it is reported that even conservative commenter George Will is preparing to come out against our continued presence there, rationalizing such a pull-out with a foolish solution:
“[F]orces should be substantially reduced to serve a comprehensively revised policy: America should do only what can be done from offshore, using intelligence, drones, cruise missiles, airstrikes and small, potent special forces units, concentrating on the porous 1,500-mile border with Pakistan, a nation that actually matters.”
Of course such a strategy will secure neither Afghanistan or Pakistan and certainly do nothing at all toward eliminating the al Qaeda threat. Instead it would give the organization a much freer hand in both countries.

Politicians have also begun to weigh in with rationalizations for pulling out of Afghanistan that can only be characterized as ignorant. Take Sen. Russ Feingold who claims he was for the war before he decided now to be against it. And, per Feingold, if we only listen to him, we can have our cake and eat it too:
We need to start discussing a flexible timetable to bring our brave troops out of Afghanistan. Proposing a timetable doesn't mean giving up our ability to go after al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Far from it: We should continue a more focused military mission that includes targeted strikes on Taliban and al Qaeda leaders, and we should step up our long-term civilian efforts to deal with the corruption in the Afghan government that has helped the Taliban to thrive. But we must recognize that our troop presence contributes to resentment in some quarters and hinders our ability to achieve our broader national security goals.
Of course Feingold's solution expects the Taliban and al Qaeda to remain quiescent and cooperate with his plan by leaving the population, the government and our "long-term civilian efforts" alone after we pull our troops out and Afghanistan unable to defend itself.

There are other political moves afoot as well as Cordesman points out. Speaking of the realities of the Afghanistan situation and the required support necessary to change it successfully, he says:
Unfortunately, strong elements in the White House, State Department and other agencies seem determined to ignore these realities. They are pressuring the president to direct Eikenberry and McChrystal to come to Washington to present a broad set of strategic concepts rather than specific requests for troops, more civilians, money and an integrated civil-military plan for action. They are pushing to prevent a fully integrated civil-military effort, and to avoid giving Eikenberry and McChrystal all the authority they need to try to force more unity of effort from allied forces and the U.N.-led aid effort.
And his conclusion, based on that is as true as it is unacceptable:
If these elements succeed, President Obama will be as much a failed wartime president as George W. Bush. He may succeed in lowering the political, military and financial profile of the war for up to a year, but in the process he will squander our last hope of winning. This would only trade one set of political problems for a far worse set in the future and leave us with an enduring regional mess and sanctuary for extremism. We have a reasonable chance of victory if we properly outfit and empower our new team in Afghanistan; we face certain defeat if we do not.
It will be interesting to see how the Obama team reacts to the McChrystal report. If, as Cordesman suggests, he attempts to put off a decision by caving into the pressure to have Generals Eikenberry and McChrystal provide a series of dog-and-pony shows outlining "a broad set of strategic concepts", then I'd conclude that the political will to carry the mission to a successful conclusion is likely not there.

What we'll instead see is a series of these sorts of delays used to push a decision on commitment further and further out until it is politically safe for the administration to pull the plug. That, of course, would be 2012 with a second term safely secured. If my cynical prediction is correct, you'll see the effort in Afghanistan given enough support to keep it from collapsing but really not furthering the effort toward success.

If that is indeed how it plays out, then politicians will be trading the lives of our soldiers for time to successfully secure their political future. That is both immoral and totally unacceptable.

Afghanistan is a salvageable. But it will take a long time, a full commitment to the mission, patience and above all, political will. If the political will is not there, the administration owes it to our troops to do its "cutting and running" now, and let the political chips fall where they may.

If, instead, they string this thing out until it is politically acceptable to do that, they deserve to be banished to the lowest level of hell, there to toil in agonized perpetuity for putting politics above the lives of our troops.
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