best front lat spread of all time

[NeoSeminole]

Dorian's front lat spread never looked this good. More balanced? Perhaps.. but not better. That's like saying Usain Bolt is the greatest athlete of all-time b/c he's the fastest. There are other criteria for best lat spread such as muscular bulk, definition, shape, and skeletal frame.

[Hulkster]

I wouldn't say more balanced. having small arms and pecs with giant overpowering lats is not balanced..

its no different than ronnie's quads overpowering his calves.

[Mr Nobody]

 

[BuffD]

man oh man

will the proof ever stop?

not fucking likely.

See this is why I say pics are worthless. The coloring and quality of these 2 pics are VERY different.  Even the angles that they show.  The only peoples opinions that matter are those that actually were at the shows.  Otherwise it's simply YOUR preference.

[NarcissisticDeity]

See this is why I say pics are worthless. The coloring and quality of these 2 pics are VERY different.  Even the angles that they show.  The only peoples opinions that matter are those that actually were at the shows.  Otherwise it's simply YOUR preference.

exactly my point ! he thinks he posts lopsided comparisons he's right which contradict ALL of the experts. His stupidity enters the equation when he tries to somehow pass his ignorant preference as fact and the experts as wrong which is exactly why he's beyond retarded . 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Dorian's front lat spread never looked this good. More balanced? Perhaps.. but not better. That's like saying Usain Bolt is the greatest athlete of all-time b/c he's the fastest. There are other criteria for best lat spread such as muscular bulk, definition, shape, and skeletal frame.

I agree there is more to a pose than just balance , there's muscular bulk which you mentioned not sure what school of logic you attended but 269 pounds is an advantage same with 282 pounds really big advantage and it's only an advantage when it's conditioned muscle which is exactly why a 205 pound Shawn Ray could best a 285 pound Nasser

Conditioning , Dorian stands ALONE same with mass it's no good by it's self many smaller guys who are hard as nails and dry as Iraq but are lacking in mass department . it's one challenge being big and a whole creature being dense & dry , enter Dorian unequaled in this combo . For the sake of argument I'm always willing to say perhaps Ronnie matched Yates in this area albeit lighter 2001/1998 but not really big like Dorian

Balance & proportion ALL Yates I'm sorry it just is , arm length in relation to the torso , torso length in relation to legs , proportion between individual muscles , whether or not your glutes can be seen from the front ( see the pic you posted ) these are all part & parcel of balance & proportion

Now let me add Ronnie has advantages Dorian does not smaller waist & hips , smaller joints , quads sweep , but when ALL of the criteria is assessed how the judges do it , Dorian hit more of the criteria than Ronnie and this applies to every pose , he just has to many advantages 

this shot is textbook perfect

[NarcissisticDeity]

I wouldn't say more balanced. having small arms and pecs with giant overpowering lats is not balanced..

its no different than ronnie's quads overpowering his calves.

No you would call balance a short torso , long legs and arms high calves unproportionate forearms , and glutes that can be seen from the front better balance lol

you don't know anything about competitive bodybuilding which is exactly why you came to the conclusion that Dorian lost in 1993 , all the pics and videos showed you what your biased ignorant eyes want to see.

your eyes were to busy else where 

[NeoSeminole]

I agree there is more to a pose than just balance , there's muscular bulk which you mentioned not sure what school of logic you attended but 269 pounds is an advantage same with 282 pounds really big advantage and it's only an advantage when it's conditioned muscle which is exactly why a 205 pound Shawn Ray could best a 285 pound Nasser

last time I checked, the judges didn't weigh competitors onstage and factor that into their decisions. So what good is a weight advantage if you can't tell by looking? Dorian, who happens to be an IFBB judge, agrees with this.

Dorian Yates - Bodybuliding.com Interview

"at the end of the day it's not a weight contest, it's a visual contest. And it doesn't matter what you say you weigh, if you don't look that big then you don't look that big."

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dorian_yates_interview_1993_gym_shots.htm

when looking at the Ronnie pic I posted and the shot of Dorian you posted, you can't even tell that Dorian weighs 13 lbs more. In fact, Ronnie actually looks bigger. His head looks smaller in relation to his pecs, delts, and arms than Dorian's.

Conditioning , Dorian stands ALONE same with mass it's no good by it's self many smaller guys who are hard as nails and dry as Iraq but are lacking in mass department . it's one challenge being big and a whole creature being dense & dry , enter Dorian unequaled in this combo . For the sake of argument I'm always willing to say perhaps Ronnie matched Yates in this area albeit lighter 2001/1998 but not really big like Dorian

conditioning means f*ck all if you can't tell by looking. Dorian looks soft with his absent separations and striations. I'm dumbfounded how you can even argue Dorian has better conditioning in that pic. What objective criteria are you using?

Balance & proportion ALL Yates I'm sorry it just is , arm length in relation to the torso , torso length in relation to legs , proportion between individual muscles , whether or not your glutes can be seen from the front ( see the pic you posted ) these are all part & parcel of balance & proportion

I agree Dorian at his prime has better balance and proportion.

Now let me add Ronnie has advantages Dorian does not smaller waist & hips , smaller joints , quads sweep , but when ALL of the criteria is assessed how the judges do it , Dorian hit more of the criteria than Ronnie and this applies to every pose , he just has to many advantages

sorry, but Ronnie meets the IFBB criteria better than Dorian. Ronnie has the advantage in muscular bulk, definition, symmetry, shape, and fullness.

this shot is textbook perfect

great shot but not perfect. Lee Haney is better.

[NarcissisticDeity]

last time I checked, the judges didn't weigh competitors onstage and factor that into their decisions. So what good is a weight advantage if you can't tell by looking? Dorian, who happens to be an IFBB judge, agrees with this.

Dorian Yates - Bodybuliding.com Interview

"at the end of the day it's not a weight contest, it's a visual contest. And it doesn't matter what you say you weigh, if you don't look that big then you don't look that big."

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dorian_yates_interview_1993_gym_shots.htm

when looking at the Ronnie pic I posted and the shot of Dorian you posted, you can't even tell that Dorian weighs 13 lbs more. In fact, Ronnie actually looks bigger. His head looks smaller in relation to his pecs, delts, and arms than Dorian's.

conditioning means f*ck all if you can't tell by looking. Dorian looks soft with his absent separations and striations. I'm dumbfounded how you can even argue Dorian has better conditioning in that pic. What objective criteria are you using?

I agree Dorian at his prime has better balance and proportion.

sorry, but Ronnie meets the IFBB criteria better than Dorian. Ronnie has the advantage in muscular bulk, definition, symmetry, shape, and fullness.

great shot but not perfect. Lee Haney is better.

last time I checked, the judges didn't weigh competitors onstage and factor that into their decisions. So what good is a weight advantage if you can't tell by looking? Dorian, who happens to be an IFBB judge, agrees with this.

Dorian Yates - Bodybuliding.com Interview

"at the end of the day it's not a weight contest, it's a visual contest. And it doesn't matter what you say you weigh, if you don't look that big then you don't look that big."

Yes you're right judges don't weigh the competitors but an advantage in muscular bulk is is clearly evident while standing next to people and funny all the comments on how Dorian looked much bigger than much heavier men than himself I wont bother posting them you've seen them all before

when looking at the Ronnie pic I posted and the shot of Dorian you posted, you can't even tell that Dorian weighs 13 lbs more. In fact, Ronnie actually looks bigger. His head looks smaller in relation to his pecs, delts, and arms than Dorian's.

yeah because there aren't two very different pics with Ronnie much closer to the camera  and they're not side-by-side and this speaks volumes about Dorian's balance & proportion throughout his entire physique not highs & lower like Ronnies

conditioning means f*ck all if you can't tell by looking. Dorian looks soft with his absent separations and striations. I'm dumbfounded how you can even argue Dorian has better conditioning in that pic. What objective criteria are you using?

You can't tell by looking at PICTURES you know the spiel Yates looks eons better on person than he does on pics , so I'll use first hand testimony as proof of how great Dorian's conditioning was , you say he looks ' soft ' the experts rave about his density which one of you is wrong? I mean these people were there live & in person

hawn Perine Ironage  May 9 2009

Although I prefer the Reeves-Zane-Paris physique, I still contend that there was never a more complete, muscular human being to walk the earth than Dorian on the day Kevin Horton shot him pre-93 O. I was never so shocked by a set of bodybuilding photos as when I went through that article. Even Ronnie at his best, lacked Dorian's hardness and certainly his calves.


my sentiments to the letter especially about Reeves & Zane , notice he mentions Dorian's density it's unrivaled

I agree Dorian at his prime has better balance and proportion.

sorry, but Ronnie meets the IFBB criteria better than Dorian. Ronnie has the advantage in muscular bulk, definition, symmetry, shape, and fullness.

great shot but not perfect. Lee Haney is better.

okay you agree Yates has the advantage in balance & proportion , you just can't seem to except he does in density & dryness and depending on the year he does have an advantage in muscular bulk but that doesn't mean much in the face of Yates' strong points in ALL of the criteria because that's how contests are judged

Haney's is by no means perfect , it's insane and always was however Dorian has him on  balance & proportion , density & dryness and surpasses him on size hell he won the muscularity despite being 10 pounds lighter in 91

Haney owned that pose for years Dorian eclipsed him

[Mr.1derful]

Yes you're right judges don't weigh the competitors but an advantage in muscular bulk is is clearly evident while standing next to people and funny all the comments on how Dorian looked much bigger than much heavier men than himself I wont bother posting them you've seen them all before

yeah because there aren't two very different pics with Ronnie much closer to the camera  and they're not side-by-side and this speaks volumes about Dorian's balance & proportion throughout his entire physique not highs & lower like Ronnies

You can't tell by looking at PICTURES you know the spiel Yates looks eons better on person than he does on pics , so I'll use first hand testimony as proof of how great Dorian's conditioning was , you say he looks ' soft ' the experts rave about his density which one of you is wrong? I mean these people were there live & in person

hawn Perine Ironage  May 9 2009

Although I prefer the Reeves-Zane-Paris physique, I still contend that there was never a more complete, muscular human being to walk the earth than Dorian on the day Kevin Horton shot him pre-93 O. I was never so shocked by a set of bodybuilding photos as when I went through that article. Even Ronnie at his best, lacked Dorian's hardness and certainly his calves.


my sentiments to the letter especially about Reeves & Zane , notice he mentions Dorian's density it's unrivaled

okay you agree Yates has the advantage in balance & proportion , you just can't seem to except he does in density & dryness and depending on the year he does have an advantage in muscular bulk but that doesn't mean much in the face of Yates' strong points in ALL of the criteria because that's how contests are judged

Haney's is by no means perfect , it's insane and always was however Dorian has him on  balance & proportion , density & dryness and surpasses him on size hell he won the muscularity despite being 10 pounds lighter in 91

Haney owned that pose for years Dorian eclipsed him

Right on the money.

[NeoSeminole]

Yes you're right judges don't weigh the competitors but an advantage in muscular bulk is is clearly evident while standing next to people and funny all the comments on how Dorian looked much bigger than much heavier men than himself I wont bother posting them you've seen them all before

bwahaha, all talk and no show. Where are the pics that show Dorian looking "much bigger" than heavier guys" Oh right... they don't exist b/c it's not true.

yeah because there aren't two very different pics with Ronnie much closer to the camera and they're not side-by-side and this speaks volumes about Dorian's balance & proportion throughout his entire physique not highs & lower like Ronnies

what does distance have to do with anything? It's not like Ronnie is a foot away from the camera while Dorian is 20 ft away. The head, pec, delt, and arm size are still the same proportions whether they are 10 ft or 15 ft away from the camera.

You can't tell by looking at PICTURES you know the spiel Yates looks eons better on person than he does on pics , so I'll use first hand testimony as proof of how great Dorian's conditioning was , you say he looks ' soft ' the experts rave about his density which one of you is wrong? I mean these people were there live & in person

<yawn> quotes mean nothing if visual evidence don't support them. I'll ask again: what objective criteria are you using?

okay you agree Yates has the advantage in balance & proportion , you just can't seem to except he does in density & dryness and depending on the year he does have an advantage in muscular bulk but that doesn't mean much in the face of Yates' strong points in ALL of the criteria because that's how contests are judged

of course I don't accept that Dorian has the advantage in density and dryness. Those are abstract terms that are meaningless unless you come up with an objective criteria for visually determining them. I might as well say Ronnie has the advantage in sharpness and swagger.

[NarcissisticDeity]

bwahaha, all talk and no show. Where are the pics that show Dorian looking "much bigger" than heavier guys" Oh right... they don't exist b/c it's not true.

what does distance have to do with anything? It's not like Ronnie is a foot away from the camera while Dorian is 20 ft away. The head, pec, delt, and arm size are still the same proportions whether they are 10 ft or 15 ft away from the camera.

<yawn> quotes mean nothing if visual evidence don't support them. I'll ask again: what objective criteria are you using?

of course I don't accept that Dorian has the advantage in density and dryness. Those are abstract terms that are meaningless unless you come up with an objective criteria for visually determining them. I might as well say Ronnie has the advantage in swagger and sharpness.

bwahaha, all talk and no show. Where are the pics that show Dorian looking "much bigger" than heavier guys" Oh right... they don't exist b/c it's not true.

You're in good company with Hulkster when it doesn't fit your position the experts are wrong lol pictures don't compare to reality

Quote from John Balik, commenting on the 96 O:

  "Dorian Yates looked absolutely fantastic. He was so freaking dense and so freaking ripped and dry, that he actually looked bigger than all the 280 lbs competitors, even though he tipped the scales at 255 lbs."


Quote from Lou Ferrigno, after the 1993 O:

  "Dorian won. He is as big as I am, but with a better overall frame. I knew I was competing for second place the minute he stepped onstage."

ronman Magazine Jan 1994

I.F.B.B. judge Roger Schwab

Man-mountain Dorian Yates was certainly the top gun in the 1993 Mr Olympia shootout. He was much bigger , better and harder than ever , and while his is never the prettiest physique on stage , he's assuredly the most God-awful muscular superman this sport has yet seen. Though Yates was lighter than Lou Ferrigno or Paul Dillett , he appeared to be the biggest man on stage-by far- and the hardest , dominating from beginning to end and every step in between.



This is from an IFBB judge I could post more but I wont bother , if you say they're not correct I'll laugh at your stupidity

what does distance have to do with anything? It's not like Ronnie is a foot away from the camera while Dorian is 20 ft away. The head, pec, delt, and arm size are still the same proportions whether they are 10 ft or 15 ft away from the camera.

Oh distance has absolutely nothing to do with anything  there is a huge discrepancy between the distance between how close each other are to the camera and again you can NOT ascertain who looks bigger than whom unless they were side-by-side

 

<yawn> quotes mean nothing if visual evidence don't support them. I'll ask again: what objective criteria are you using?

this is where you and Hulkster are always destined to fall flat on your face , all the experts are wrong you're right even though I have proven both of you to ignorant to even the basics of physique evaluation , you say it's bullshit Dorian doesn't look better in person  I laugh at you and take you for what you are a bias person with an agenda , I'm telling you the experts who actually seen both men live and in person throughout their entire careers all say Dorian's conditioning is better , you can't accept this who cares? but it doesn't change tha fact

of course I don't accept that Dorian has the advantage in density and dryness. Those are abstract terms that are meaningless unless you come up with an objective criteria for visually determining them. I might as well say Ronnie has the advantage in swagger and sharpness.

objective criteria for judging density & dryness? how about visually LIVE and in PERSON either you're dry and you're holding water , either you're hard as nails & full or you're soft & full ! it takes a trained eye to know the difference and the fact you outright claimed the guys who were there with more experience in the game than you do years alive proves you're to proud and to stupid to admit you're wrong

Dorian's conditioning is unmatched this is a fact , you're claiming he's soft when he's dense as stone , your claim contradicts reality and this is exactly why you will always be ridiculed because you're not ignorant anymore , I have thought you you're just denying reality . 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Right on the money.

See this quote absolutely sucks for them because it validates every single thing I've said after the fact which proves I know more than they do . more muscular , more complete , better conditioned and balance that's Dorian Yates

hawn Perine Ironage  May 9 2009

Although I prefer the Reeves-Zane-Paris physique, I still contend that there was never a more complete, muscular human being to walk the earth than Dorian on the day Kevin Horton shot him pre-93 O. I was never so shocked by a set of bodybuilding photos as when I went through that article. Even Ronnie at his best, lacked Dorian's hardness and certainly his calves.

[Mr.1derful]

See this quote absolutely sucks for them because it validates every single thing I've said after the fact which proves I know more than they do . more muscular , more complete , better conditioned and balance that's Dorian Yates

Shawn Perine Ironage  May 9 2009

Although I prefer the Reeves-Zane-Paris physique, I still contend that there was never a more complete, muscular human being to walk the earth than Dorian on the day Kevin Horton shot him pre-93 O. I was never so shocked by a set of bodybuilding photos as when I went through that article. Even Ronnie at his best, lacked Dorian's hardness and certainly his calves.

The shot heard round the world.

[Neptune100]

Better front lat spread?-Dorian has the best ever.

Better Bodybuilder?-Ronnie unless you're retarded/delusional/ (aka ND)

Hope this helps.

[NarcissisticDeity]

The shot heard round the world.

I mean these pictures still have an impact 16 years later ! not to mention them at the time , I recall Demayo who just turned pro after looking at the pics he said something like , I was just getting used to Dorian 1992 now this I think I should get a job at Burger King

lots of guys his height are now competing at that weight but who has really matched his weight and density & dryness coupled with his balance? NO ONE to this day

[NarcissisticDeity]

Better front lat spread?-Dorian has the best ever.

Better Bodybuilder?-Ronnie unless you're retarded/delusional/ (aka ND)

Hope this helps.

Who's gimmick are you?  come back under your regular name and type this 

I'm glad you agree his front lat spread is the best though

[Mr.1derful]

Might as well throw this one up again, being that it obliterates anyone, anytime.  The naysayers cower in fear when this one is posted.  This is reality! A harsh one for some people.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Might as well throw this one up again, being that it obliterates anyone, anytime.  Even the naysayers cower in fear when this one is posted.  This is reality, perhaps a harsh one for some people.

FAKE < FAKE < FAKE >  what else can they say? one of the most respected contest photographers who ever took a shot and who's never once took a side yet he manipulated this pic for the masses 

these Coleman fans are stupid people

[Mr.1derful]

FAKE < FAKE < FAKE >  what else can they say? one of the most respected contest photographers who ever took a shot and who's never once took a side yet he manipulated this pic for the masses 

these Coleman fans are stupid people

I could see it if it were sharpened, I mean, there's a guy on this board that knows f*cking sharpening.  But that isn't the case at all.

[Neptune100]

gimmick? nope. I just dont post that much. IMO Dorian has the best FLS ever, the flare of his lats are unbelievable plus his chest and calves look awesome and his weak biceps are hid.

However, Ronnie is the best bodybuilder ever,and time is and will continue to tell he is the king.  Dorian is top 3-5 though.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I could see it if it were sharpened, I mean, there's a guy on this board that knows f*cking sharpening.  But that isn't the case at all.

He said it was scanned from the original a common theme with these guys is to just outright dismiss every single expert who contradicts their claims , these people can't be taken seriously just laughed at and corrected

[NeoSeminole]

You're in good company with Hulkster when it doesn't fit your position the experts are wrong lol pictures don't compare to reality

I asked for pics and you give me quotes? Funny little man. lol

Oh distance has absolutely nothing to do with anything there is a huge discrepancy between the distance between how close each other are to the camera and again you can NOT ascertain who looks bigger than whom unless they were side-by-side

explain how distance affects proportions at distances greater than 10 ft. The head, pecs, delts, and arms all get smaller but keep the same dimensions. It's only at close up distances (e.g. less than 5 ft) that proportions get distorted. So rather than roll your eyes like an idiot, why don't you use your brain and explain what distance has to do with the 2 pics?
 

this is where you and Hulkster are always destined to fall flat on your face , all the experts are wrong you're right even though I have proven both of you to ignorant to even the basics of physique evaluation , you say it's bullshit Dorian doesn't look better in person  I laugh at you and take you for what you are a bias person with an agenda , I'm telling you the experts who actually seen both men live and in person throughout their entire careers all say Dorian's conditioning is better , you can't accept this who cares? but it doesn't change tha fact

correction: you posted the opinions of people who saw both and claim Dorian had better conditioning. Why should I believe them while you ignore the myriad of quotes saying Ronnie had the greatest physique of all-time?

objective criteria for judging density & dryness? how about visually LIVE and in PERSON either you're dry and you're holding water , either you're hard as nails & full or you're soft & full ! it takes a trained eye to know the difference and the fact you outright claimed the guys who were there with more experience in the game than you do years alive proves you're to proud and to stupid to admit you're wrong

I'm still waiting for the objective criteria you're using to determine density and dryness. What visual cues do you use?

[NeoSeminole]

See this quote absolutely sucks for them because it validates every single thing I've said after the fact which proves I know more than they do . more muscular , more complete , better conditioned and balance that's Dorian Yates

hawn Perine Ironage  May 9 2009

Although I prefer the Reeves-Zane-Paris physique, I still contend that there was never a more complete, muscular human being to walk the earth than Dorian on the day Kevin Horton shot him pre-93 O. I was never so shocked by a set of bodybuilding photos as when I went through that article. Even Ronnie at his best, lacked Dorian's hardness and certainly his calves.

Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder

"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."

Team Flex - http://www.flexonline.com/training/49

"We've said before that the 245 pounds or so physique with which [Ronnie Coleman] won the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic is the best ever - unbeatable."

Lonnie Teper - MD, December 2005

"I've always said that it's too hard to compare athletes of different eras (then he names a few Mr. Olympias including Dorian). Still, it's hard to imagine that anybody who's ever stepped on a bodybuilding stage could have beaten Coleman. So I reserve the right to change my mind on this one. No offense to the rest of the champs - you were/are all truly amazing physique athletes - but Coleman has really taken it to the next level, as all magnificent conquerors do."

Tony Doherty - http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=270388.msg3803035#msg3803035

"Absolutely no question. The best ever, I have seen them and worked with them all. Seeing Ronnie in 2003 was like looking into the future!"

Milos Sarcev - European Flex, April 2004

"Chris Lund who I consider to be a great expert in our sport of bodybuilding, told me that Ronnie is simply the best bodybuilder he has ever seen, or photographed, and he has seen everybody, during the last 35 years."

"Ronnie Coleman is absolutely phenomenal, and I really mean that. I would also agree with all the experts who believe that he is the best bodybuilder of all time."

Raymond Cassar - Muscletime Editor and Photographer

"There is no one alive that can beat Ronnie Coleman when he is at his best - No One! (and his best for me was when he won the 2001 Arnold Classic)"

http://www.muscletime.com/news/contest-results/2007-mr-olympia-analysis

Hollis Liebman - Former Fitness Editor and IFBB Official

"The era of the big man would commence with Lee Haney (1984-1991), whose formidable torso would dominate the lineup for 8 straight years and was then elevated by Dorian Yates (1992-1997), whose back and overall conditioning upped the ante yet again until an alien named Ronnie Coleman (1998-2005), in all likelihood the greatest bodybuilder of all time, would redefine the sport bringing a near 300 pound contest ready physique to the stage."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238675.0

Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004

"I'll go on record as saying Ronnie is truly the biggest, hardest, most shredded Mr. Olympia in history. No disrespect to anybody at all, but I'd to identify Ronnie Coleman as the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time."

Jean Pierre Fux - Personal Website

"The current Mr. Olympia (Ronnie Coleman). In top shape, probably the best physique that ever stepped on stage."

Paul Dillet - MD, February 2004

"Understand that if Ronnie walked away tomorrow, I do not think anyone can measure up to the standards he has set. Just like Sergio Oliva, an awesome bodybuilder way ahead of his time, and like Flex Wheeler, who had an absolutely perfect, beautiful physique. No one will match Serigo or Flex and now Ronnie."

Steve Blechman - MD, Febrary 2004

"Ronnie perseveres and proves continually that, at his best, he is unbeatable."

Mike Matarazzo - Flex, January 1999

"I think this creature from another planet, Ronnie Coleman, is going to be number one for a while. I think that, in the shape he was in, he would have beaten Dorian Yates. Ronnie has every single attribute it takes to be the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived. "

[Hulkster]

See this is why I say pics are worthless. The coloring and quality of these 2 pics are VERY different.  Even the angles that they show.  The only peoples opinions that matter are those that actually were at the shows.  Otherwise it's simply YOUR preference.

you forget there are two very good videos from both shows.

its quite clear from watching them that 99 is better.

hope this helps.