best front lat spread of all time

[NarcissisticDeity]

8 years and 17 contests is not longevity...lol cmon man I think Cormier competed more than 17 times in one year alone!

Ronnie dominated even a sharper Flex in 99, receiving perfect scores for the entire contest.

Ronnie had competiton, some of the same competition Dorian had and new blood as well.

And Dorian won controversaily more times than you can count. I mean Levrone looked better than him at times, Nasser, Ray
Doubt Dorian ever did that.

Add all those notes together and this is what you get

Ronnie>Dorian

Ronnie lost a LOT in fact much more than he won ! 17 years of losing a bunch of contests not saying much , Dorian was wiser and in fact a winner right off the bat so he didn't have to compete in shit shows to try and earn money and when he edid become champ he picked his battles and it served him well

Flex wasn't better in 99 than 98  and neither were as good as 93 

Ronnie beat guys past their primes that Dorian beat for years , not saying it's his fault Ronnie can only compete with guys who show up , and the new blood would be left for dead in the mid-nineties not saying much

Controversy in reigns? 93 Dorian beat a neat best ever Flex , Flex raises his hand and claims he's ' unbeatable ' 99 Flex claims he's number one and turns his back on Ronnie  , Kevin outright said he beat Ronnie in 2000 and 2002 , Jay beat him in 2001 ( prejudging ) 2004 Jay could have beat him it was so close same with 1998 , as a Coleman fan don't cry controversy because Ronnie is knee deep in it

and add all those up and Dorian beats Ronnie as usual , just purely from a statistical standpoint Dorian would beat Ronnie 8 wins to none , 40% win/loss ratio compared to 88%  couple that with the fact Ronnie said on multiple occasions he doesn't think he would beat Dorian and you have Dorian > Ronnie

[Mr.1derful]

barely? only on the scorecard was it barely, he blew everyone away. cause how judging was performed. Had no names been or reputations been known in that Olympia, he would have had perfect scores throughout.

Im also curious, do you have Dorians scorecards from his Olympias? Im interested to see how he scored.

It's the score sheet that determines the winner, Merlin.  You don't seem to like stats and figures that don't suite your biased agenda, so be careful what you wish for, as you won't like how totally dominant Dorian was on the score sheets.  Not to mention, he never lost to an also ran like Gunter and he certainly never lost his Olympia title, like Ronnie did to Jay. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

barely? only on the scorecard was it barely, he blew everyone away. cause how judging was performed. Had no names been or reputations been known in that Olympia, he would have had perfect scores throughout.

Im also curious, do you have Dorians scorecards from his Olympias? Im interested to see how he scored.

Barely 3 points is barely either way you cut it Flex could have beat him in fact he has the same amount of wins of over Ronnie they beat each other 8 times

Dorian scored almost perfect scores in every round in every Olympia he won , with the exception of one posing round which he won but not with a perfect score

[NarcissisticDeity]

It's the score sheet that determines the winner, Merlin.  You don't seem to like stats and figures that don't suite your biased agenda, so be careful what you wish for, as you won't like how totally dominant Dorian was on the score sheets.  Not to mention, he never lost to an also ran like Gunter and he certainly never lost his Olympia title, like Ronnie did to Jay. 

Hell Ronnie was getting beat in the challenge round to Dex and Gustavo

[Mr.1derful]

Hell Ronnie was getting beat in the challenge round to Dex and Gustavo

This guy seems like another sub 100 post gimmick invented by the trolls, in response to being defeated so many times, but wishing to continue the debate through a gimmick to save face. 

[Neptune100]

Ronnie lost a LOT in fact much more than he won ! 17 years of losing a bunch of contests not saying much , Dorian was wiser and in fact a winner right off the bat so he didn't have to compete in shit shows to try and earn money and when he edid become champ he picked his battles and it served him well

Flex wasn't better in 99 than 98  and neither were as good as 93 

Ronnie beat guys past their primes that Dorian beat for years , not saying it's his fault Ronnie can only compete with guys who show up , and the new blood would be left for dead in the mid-nineties not saying much

Controversy in reigns? 93 Dorian beat a neat best ever Flex , Flex raises his hand and claims he's ' unbeatable ' 99 Flex claims he's number one and turns his back on Ronnie  , Kevin outright said he beat Ronnie in 2000 and 2002 , Jay beat him in 2001 ( prejudging ) 2004 Jay could have beat him it was so close same with 1998 , as a Coleman fan don't cry controversy because Ronnie is knee deep in it

and add all those up and Dorian beats Ronnie as usual , just purely from a statistical standpoint Dorian would beat Ronnie 8 wins to none , 40% win/loss ratio compared to 88%  couple that with the fact Ronnie said on multiple occasions he doesn't think he would beat Dorian and you have Dorian > Ronnie

Ok lets be real for a second.  First off, Dorian beat Flex and Levrone when they were young. Flex was a newcomer to the Olympia stage and so was Kevin in 92.  Now I believe Dorian won in 92 and 93, but had Kevin and Flex been a veteran like a Lee Labrada by 92 and 93 they would have scored alot closer to Dorian than they did(although i dont know the scorecards anyways. Do you have those?) Had Levrone not torn his pec and had Wheeler not been in that car accident, who knows if they wouldve beat Dorian in those middle years.  

By 98 and 99 Flex knew he had to win an Olympia, he had all the pressure on him and his ego had exploded. He couldnt take the fact that Ronnie beat him, so he lashed out. Ive read several MD articles where Wheeler gives huge props to Ronnie and says he was the best ever blah blah blah. What happened was emotion in the heat of battle.  

Levrone looked his best in 2000 and 2002. Flex looked just as good in 99 as he did in 93. He had more mass in 99, more of a name for himself and more star power in 99.  Likewise Levrone was more of a monster and had more star power in 2000 and 2002 than he did against Dorian.

Im pretty fair I think, but Dorian shouldve lost at least 2 mr. Os in my opinion.  Ronnie shouldve lost to Cutler and Levrone. Thats my opinion.


And what is Ronnies winning percentage since he won the Mr. O? I believe he lost twice, once at the SOS and once to Cutler that dethroned him. I believe Ronnie won more shows in that timespan that dorian EVER won.

Id still like to see Dorians scorecards...

[Neptune100]

Its hard to have a good arguement with guys that are so slanted and are not willing to concede any points even when they're obvious.

[Neptune100]

and to show Im not a "troll" or whatever, Ronnie lost to Gunter. Thats fair, Dorian never lost to someone like that. I give Gunter props he looked outstanding and Ronnie just wasnt ready and shouldnt have competed. Ronnie liked competiting but probably was too cocky and believed he couldnt lose. Dorian was shrewd enough however to wait out every year, which in the end added to his legacy cause had Dorian competed during his reign like Ronnie did during his, Dorian probably would have lost as well.  But he didnt which adds to his legacy.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ok lets be real for a second.  First off, Dorian beat Flex and Levrone when they were young. Flex was a newcomer to the Olympia stage and so was Kevin in 92.  Now I believe Dorian won in 92 and 93, but had Kevin and Flex been a veteran like a Lee Labrada by 92 and 93 they would have scored alot closer to Dorian than they did(although i dont know the scorecards anyways. Do you have those?) Had Levrone not torn his pec and had Wheeler not been in that car accident, who knows if they wouldve beat Dorian in those middle years.  

By 98 and 99 Flex knew he had to win an Olympia, he had all the pressure on him and his ego had exploded. He couldnt take the fact that Ronnie beat him, so he lashed out. Ive read several MD articles where Wheeler gives huge props to Ronnie and says he was the best ever blah blah blah. What happened was emotion in the heat of battle.  

Levrone looked his best in 2000 and 2002. Flex looked just as good in 99 as he did in 93. He had more mass in 99, more of a name for himself and more star power in 99.  Likewise Levrone was more of a monster and had more star power in 2000 and 2002 than he did against Dorian.

Im pretty fair I think, but Dorian shouldve lost at least 2 mr. Os in my opinion.  Ronnie shouldve lost to Cutler and Levrone. Thats my opinion.


And what is Ronnies winning percentage since he won the Mr. O? I believe he lost twice, once at the SOS and once to Cutler that dethroned him. I believe Ronnie won more shows in that timespan that dorian EVER won.

Id still like to see Dorians scorecards...

Ok lets be real for a second.  First off, Dorian beat Flex and Levrone when they were young. Flex was a newcomer to the Olympia stage and so was Kevin in 92.  Now I believe Dorian won in 92 and 93, but had Kevin and Flex been a veteran like a Lee Labrada by 92 and 93 they would have scored alot closer to Dorian than they did(although i dont know the scorecards anyways. Do you have those?) Had Levrone not torn his pec and had Wheeler not been in that car accident, who knows if they wouldve beat Dorian in those middle years. 

Still young is that a bad thing? Flex never looked the same as he did after the crash and that's a bad thing , and Kev looked awesome in 92 and 94/95/97 much better in fact that he did when Ronnie beat him in 2000/2002

And I agree Flex's best chance to defeat Dorian was in 94 but the accident ruined that if anyone coould have it would be him and I wouldn't have a problem with that in the least in fact I was rooting for Flex in 93

By 98 and 99 Flex knew he had to win an Olympia, he had all the pressure on him and his ego had exploded. He couldnt take the fact that Ronnie beat him, so he lashed out. Ive read several MD articles where Wheeler gives huge props to Ronnie and says he was the best ever blah blah blah. What happened was emotion in the heat of battle.   

I agree but that's not the point , he still maintained if he didn't get sick he would own a few of Ronnie's Sandows

Flex Magazine October 2006


Flex on Ronnie

  In the years since you retired, have you gotten the urge to jump onstage again to do battle with Coleman and the rest of the guys?

WHEELER: I know in my heart that if I were the force I was before I had to abruptly leave the sport ... bro, I would have won a couple of Olympias by now--or at least Ronnie and I would be going back and forth, slugging it out, like in a brutal UFC [Ultimate Fighting Championship] fight. I have no doubt. And I have no doubt that it would be just me and him. I mean, where it's

him separated from everyone else down here on planet Earth, it would be me and him slugging it out. I don't mean to sound cocky, but I have no doubt. If you don't believe me, just go back to the old pictures and put them up against anybody competing today.


Flex could beat Ronnie no doubts

Levrone looked his best in 2000 and 2002. Flex looked just as good in 99 as he did in 93. He had more mass in 99, more of a name for himself and more star power in 99.  Likewise Levrone was more of a monster and had more star power in 2000 and 2002 than he did against Dorian.

Oh dude you're way off base 00/02 kevin was a far cry from 92/95/97 and Flex was a shadow of himself in 99 compared to 93 , I mean you're just way off on this one

Shawn on Flex Wheeler


Wheeler's genetically gifted , but sometimes he would drag through his workouts when I trained with him. I thought he was awesome in his first Olympia, he placed second to Dorian. But Wheeler's NEVER again matched that condition.


Shawn commenting on the obvious

Im pretty fair I think, but Dorian shouldve lost at least 2 mr. Os in my opinion.  Ronnie shouldve lost to Cutler and Levrone. Thats my opinion.


And what is Ronnies winning percentage since he won the Mr. O? I believe he lost twice, once at the SOS and once to Cutler that dethroned him. I believe Ronnie won more shows in that timespan that dorian EVER won.

I think Dorian could have lost 1997 all others I think he won soundly , I think Ronnie could have lost a lot more but he didn't and I don't buy the fixed contest ploy

Ronnie was on a tear when he finally won the big one but he had a lot of close calls but it brings us back to the level of competition which isn't Ronnie's fault but Dorian faced a much higher caliber in my opinion

[Mr.1derful]

Ok lets be real for a second.  First off, Dorian beat Flex and Levrone when they were young. Flex was a newcomer to the Olympia stage and so was Kevin in 92.  Now I believe Dorian won in 92 and 93, but had Kevin and Flex been a veteran like a Lee Labrada by 92 and 93 they would have scored alot closer to Dorian than they did(although i dont know the scorecards anyways. Do you have those?) Had Levrone not torn his pec and had Wheeler not been in that car accident, who knows if they wouldve beat Dorian in those middle years.  

By 98 and 99 Flex knew he had to win an Olympia, he had all the pressure on him and his ego had exploded. He couldnt take the fact that Ronnie beat him, so he lashed out. Ive read several MD articles where Wheeler gives huge props to Ronnie and says he was the best ever blah blah blah. What happened was emotion in the heat of battle.  

Levrone looked his best in 2000 and 2002. Flex looked just as good in 99 as he did in 93. He had more mass in 99, more of a name for himself and more star power in 99.  Likewise Levrone was more of a monster and had more star power in 2000 and 2002 than he did against Dorian.

Im pretty fair I think, but Dorian shouldve lost at least 2 mr. Os in my opinion.  Ronnie shouldve lost to Cutler and Levrone. Thats my opinion.


And what is Ronnies winning percentage since he won the Mr. O? I believe he lost twice, once at the SOS and once to Cutler that dethroned him. I believe Ronnie won more shows in that timespan that dorian EVER won.

Id still like to see Dorians scorecards...

With regard to Flex, many would contend that he looked his best in 1993.  For Levrone, I would be tempted to suggest 1995 as his best O appearance.  Subjective to be sure, but going on that basis, they peaked whilst competing against Dorian.  They had massive potential, but never came close to closing the gap against Yates.  Their lack of drive is also why Coleman grabbed hold of the Sandow forcing them to retire without winning one.  Both Yates and Coleman worked harder and wanted it more, which is why they became Mr. Olympia, for which they both should be given credit.

[NeoSeminole]

yeah and 2003 is his best

if you want to prove me wrong, then post a quote from an IFBB judge who disagrees with me.

IFBB Website - History of the Mr. Olympia

"The night (October 25, 2003) was Ronnie's. Whatever doubt people had was dispelled as soon as Ronnie hit the stage. He was in his best shape ever, at 39 years old."

http://www.ifbbpro.com/history-of-the-mr-olympia/4/

and Dorian was never harder & drier

Ronnie at the 01 ASC surpassed Dorian's conditioning.



in before lame excuse from ND about how my comparison is biased and the scaling somehow affects separations and striations.

than Ronnie and balance & proportion are the same thing,

they are the same thing, idiot. Look them up in the dictionary. If you're using the IFBB definitions, then explain how a judge is suppose to tell if the mass of one side is equal to the other. I wonder if you ever stopped to use your brain and think about that for a second.

Dorian Yates - Flex, October 2006

"Symmetry means one side is shaped the same as the other side--its mirror image. Balance means the mass of one side is equal to that of the other, even though their shapes, or symmetry, might differ. Proportion is nothing more than the relativity of parts and has nothing to do with either symmetry or balance."

I mean shall I continue? I may not know more than everyone but I show as fuck know know a lot more than you

please do continue b/c so far I haven't seen any examples that demonstrate you know more than me about bodybuilding.

stop trying to pass the buck it's YOU who is claiming the judges are wrong based on an inaccurate means , more of your faulty logic on your behalf , you know you can't so you'll try and put the onus on me not how it works nice try

hahaha, keep deluding yourself into believing the pics lie and the judges were being literal instead of using figurative language. I've already proved Dorian wasn't the largest guy onstage. Now the onus is on you to prove he was otherwise you concede you're wrong.

[Mr.1derful]

and to show Im not a "troll" or whatever, Ronnie lost to Gunter. Thats fair, Dorian never lost to someone like that. I give Gunter props he looked outstanding and Ronnie just wasnt ready and shouldnt have competed. Ronnie liked competiting but probably was too cocky and believed he couldnt lose. Dorian was shrewd enough however to wait out every year, which in the end added to his legacy cause had Dorian competed during his reign like Ronnie did during his, Dorian probably would have lost as well.  But he didnt which adds to his legacy.

I'm man enough to retract my troll statement, being that I've come across some of your comments that are logical and well reasoned.  Even if I don't agree with all of your statements, I'll give you credit for that.  Nothing wrong with having a bit of fun and taking a few friendly shots, as we all do it, but it's also good to apply some logic and have an intelligent debate.  Not everyone has the capacity for this, that is for certain.

[Neptune100]

ok well I disagree. I believe Kevin looked best in 2000.  his second best was 2002. I didnt like his look in 94 post tear, 95 or 97. He either wasnt large enough or he wasnt conditioned enough. In 2000 and 20002 he was huge and conditioned.  Levrone did look awesome in 92 but was only a rookie. Had Levrone looked liked his 92 self in 94-97, he may have beaten Dorian.

Flex obviously looked best 93 Arnold, then either 93 O or 99 Olympia. For me, he was MORE OF A THREAT at the 98/99 Olympia because of who he was at that time. 93, he was an upand comer. By 98/99 he was the chosen one and was EXPECTED to win the Olympia. He was not expected to win in 93.

And while Dorians competiton was better than Colemans minus 98 and 99, I do believe that neither Wheeler nor Levrone hit their peaks against Dorian except when they were both rookies. Nasser however and Ray did, and i believe they both should have won an Olympia against dorian.

[Mr.1derful]

ok well I disagree. I believe Kevin looked best in 2000.  his second best was 2002. I didnt like his look in 94 post tear, 95 or 97. He either wasnt large enough or he wasnt conditioned enough. In 2000 and 20002 he was huge and conditioned.  Levrone did look awesome in 92 but was only a rookie. Had Levrone looked liked his 92 self in 94-97, he may have beaten Dorian.

Flex obviously looked best 93 Arnold, then either 93 O or 99 Olympia. For me, he was MORE OF A THREAT at the 98/99 Olympia because of who he was at that time. 93, he was an upand comer. By 98/99 he was the chosen one and was EXPECTED to win the Olympia. He was not expected to win in 93.

And while Dorians competiton was better than Colemans minus 98 and 99, I do believe that neither Wheeler nor Levrone hit their peaks against Dorian except when they were both rookies. Nasser however and Ray did, and i believe they both should have won an Olympia against dorian.

I agree in that Levrone looked good in 2000, and in fact I was pulling for him. In 2002, his conditioning was very good, but he was a touch flat and his quads cost him a title that was all but his.  A missed opportunity for him, I feel.

[Mr.1derful]

ok well I disagree. I believe Kevin looked best in 2000.  his second best was 2002. I didnt like his look in 94 post tear, 95 or 97. He either wasnt large enough or he wasnt conditioned enough. In 2000 and 20002 he was huge and conditioned.  Levrone did look awesome in 92 but was only a rookie. Had Levrone looked liked his 92 self in 94-97, he may have beaten Dorian.

Flex obviously looked best 93 Arnold, then either 93 O or 99 Olympia. For me, he was MORE OF A THREAT at the 98/99 Olympia because of who he was at that time. 93, he was an upand comer. By 98/99 he was the chosen one and was EXPECTED to win the Olympia. He was not expected to win in 93.

And while Dorians competiton was better than Colemans minus 98 and 99, I do believe that neither Wheeler nor Levrone hit their peaks against Dorian except when they were both rookies. Nasser however and Ray did, and i believe they both should have won an Olympia against dorian.

For Flex, I believe you are correct to a point.  The Sandow was all but gift wrapped for him in 1998, all he had to do was show up in shape.  I do believe he was considered a bigger threat in 1993 than some might believe though.  If I recall, when he burst on the pro scene he won his first 3 or 4 contests in a row.  He made his presence known immediately. 

With respect to Dorian's reign, it's startling to consider the talent pool of the time.  There were a number of competitors that one might consider to have superior genetic gifts to Dorian, but they failed to have the drive to compete with him.  Dillet may be the finest example of this.  One wonders what he may have become had he trained with the ferocity of Yates or Coleman. I mean seriously, if the guy couldn't put forth a modicum of effort to throw together a half assed decent pose, how hard did he train?

[Neptune100]

I agree in that Levrone looked good in 2000, and in fact I was pulling for him. In 2002, his conditioning was very good, but he was a touch flat and his quads cost him a title that was all but his.  A missed opportunity for him, I feel.

yeah I agree. even though ive been fighting for Ronnie alot lately, kevin is my fav bodybuilder

[Hulkster]

yeah, ND loves to look at the scorecard in 98 without looking at the actual contest.

this is not 'barely' beating flex.

he is destroying him:

thats what bodybuilding is to ND: nothing but scorecards and often incorrect quotes. the actual physiques don't matter to him..

[NeoSeminole]

please when your pathetic attempt at an internet-challenge failed you're trying to escape the ridicule of the absurdity of it by claiming the contrary . again gayer than a Bowflex bench-off challenge

omg, you're f*cking dumb. hahaha. Here is my exact quote:
 
"I would encourage ND to enter since he claims he's bigger than me but I know he'll just come up with an excuse to pussy out."

again, who said anything about an internet challenge? All I see is me encouraging you to enter the Mr. Getbig.

I average 13 posts a day don't mistake me for fat-Dave , so you don't know if I'm a ' threat ' that's you jumping to conclusions once again, and work? again I don't work at a flower shop strike two I never gave an excuse to not posting pictures strike three . I'm above posting my pictures on an internet message board I think it's sad posting pictures of yourself on an internet message board looking for approval & internet respect maybe you need that I don't.

translation = I'm afraid to post my pics but I'm too proud to admit that. So I'm gonna pretend I'm above posting pics of myself.

who do you think you're kidding? There's a difference between a friendly competition for prize money and posting pics of yourself to feed your ego. Spare me your bullshit excuses why you're scared to throw up pics.

Now you're reduced to wondering if I'm shape or not and comparing myself to you which proves my point you don't know. you couldn't beat me in any argument now you want to try physically because you failed mentally so much for not considering me a ' threat '

wondering? haha, no. It took me a sec. to deduce that you're not in shape.

[Mr.1derful]

yeah I agree. even though ive been fighting for Ronnie alot lately, kevin's is my fav bodybuilder

I was pushing for Kevin to win for several years, but he was always just shy of getting it done.  The hallmark of someone who wins the O seems to be consistent drive and work ethic, which I'm not sure Kevin had.  I do believe he trained hard at times, but I don't feel he had the consistency he needed to give him that little extra to win it all.  As referenced, I feel 2002 was an open door that he could have slammed shut if he had wanted it more.  

Not to take anything away from Dexter, but it's odd when you had these genetic marvels like Kevin and Flex who never won, and now you've got Dexter as the champ, who I just don't equate to being on their level.  I'm not saying Dex wasn't deserving, it's just that even with a Sandow, I don't see him as a Mr. O.

[NeoSeminole]

pick a year for the best physique ever

01 ASC

[Hulkster]

If ND bothered to look at the actual contest and not just the scorecards, he would see flex getting killed.

notice: Ronnie was so far ahead by the evening show they didnt even put them side by side

when its really close, they always position them side by side.

a key note that of course idiots like them would overlook...

but knowledgable people like us recognize immediately.

because we know the sport..

[Neptune100]

I was pushing for Kevin to win for several years, but he was always just shy of getting it done.  The hallmark of someone who wins the O seems to be consistent drive and work ethic, which I'm not sure Kevin had.  I do believe he trained hard at times, but I don't feel he had the consistency he needed to give him that little extra to win it all.  As referenced, I feel 2002 was an open door that he could have slammed shut if he had wanted it more.  

Not to take anything away from Dexter, but it's odd when you had these genetic marvels like Kevin and Flex who never won, and now you've got Dexter as the champ, who I just don't equate to being on their level.  I'm not saying Dex wasn't deserving, it's just that even with a Sandow, I don't see him as a Mr. O.

yeah as far as I know after the 94 Olympia kevin never worked out for 8-10months straight in prep for the Olympia. Had he put in 3-5 years of maximum effort in the offseason, who knows.  And as far as Dexter is concerned, he may not be as dominating as Levrone or Wheeler or Nasser or Ray, but Im glad he won last year instead of Cutler. Honestly he's probably gonna be like a Bannout or Dickerson, one and done.

[NeoSeminole]

03 Mr. Olympia

[Neptune100]

notice: Ronnie was so far ahead by the evening show they didnt even put them side by side

when its really close, they always position them side by side.

a key note that of course idiots like them would overlook...

but knowledgable people like us recognize immediately.

because we know the sport..

if youre correct thats a very good observation!

[NeoSeminole]

02 BFTO