Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: siouxcountry on May 11, 2007, 05:02:26 PM
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KO at Draper's board:
Reg Park is very ill and the prognosis is not good. Please pray for him, his family and his son Jon Jon, who is taking it rather hard. Much love and blessings to a legend in bodybuilding, and a great man who raised a fantastic family of wonderful people.
A deadly form of melanoma that has spread.
http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/12308/ (http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/12308/)
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That is not good news to hear. I wish his family and him well.
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God Bless
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From Reg's Forum.
Reg and his wife, Mareon, at the 2007 Arnold Classic...
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c155/coconutsandapples/123/reg.jpg)
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Prayers out to him and his family.
I met Reg Park quite a few times when I was a teenager training at Bill Pearls Gym!
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God Bless. First bodybuilder to bench 500.
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I hope he pulls through.
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I hope he pulls through :(
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I pray for him,.....a true legend .
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My prayers go to Reg Park and family. May God lay His hands upon his illness and break the chain of bondage off Reg.
How is Arnold feeling about this?
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God Bless Reg and his family!!!!!
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God Bless
FYI, "god" doesn't exist ::)
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Sorry to hear that, hope reg and his family are getting all thes upport they need.
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MAY THE IRON GODS GIVE HIM STRENGTH!
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Not sure if this has been posted already.
http://kagedmuscle.proboards102.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=goss&thread=1178928416&page=1
www.kagedmuscle.com
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yeah im not sure either
::)
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Shit that would suck bad if he died that way... :'(
Somebody call Arnold..
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Dave Draper lookin' like he can't hang.
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery/musclegallery11/ar319.jpg)
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Dave Draper lookin' like he can't hang.
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery/musclegallery11/ar319.jpg)
shit Arnolds waist doesn't look that small huh?
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Not as small as everyone thinks.
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The only way you can help him, would be to donate billions to fund research in order to develop a cure.
There is no god, praying is useless and stupid. NEVER has a prayer cured anyone.
Disease does not work by chance and has known and identifiable characteristics. This is not supernatural in nature, and you dolts should not treat it as such.
Stop wasting your time.
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The only way you can help him, would be to donate billions to fund research in order to develop a cure.
There is no god, praying is useless and stupid. NEVER has a prayer cured anyone.
Disease does not work by chance and has known and identifiable characteristics. This is not supernatural in nature, and you dolts should not treat it as such.
Stop wasting your time.
you are autistic
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The only way you can help him, would be to donate billions to fund research in order to develop a cure.
There is no god, praying is useless and stupid. NEVER has a prayer cured anyone.
Disease does not work by chance and has known and identifiable characteristics. This is not supernatural in nature, and you dolts should not treat it as such.
Stop wasting your time.
TA... I have to say I absolutely and 100% am with you, that was one of the most intelligent post I have seen from you.
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a true legend i hope he pulls through
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TA... I have to say I absolutely and 100% am with you, that was one of the most intelligent post I have seen from you.
Agree. But you know how the less intelligent among us have to bring their mythological beliefs to bear whenever faced with a sad or frightening situation.
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The only way you can help him, would be to donate billions to fund research in order to develop a cure.
There is no god, praying is useless and stupid. NEVER has a prayer cured anyone.
Disease does not work by chance and has known and identifiable characteristics. This is not supernatural in nature, and you dolts should not treat it as such.
Stop wasting your time.
You have the social skills of a piece of shit.
Hope this helps.
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You have the social skills of a piece of shit.
Hope this helps.
Doesn't mean he's wrong.
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shit Arnolds waist doesn't look that small huh?
Around 1970 he was closer to 250. The rest of his BB career was mainly refinement.
Arnold really looked up to Reg & Dave; i'm sure he's been in touch with him throughout this.
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FYI, "god" doesn't exist ::)
how the fuck do you know?
asshole
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how the fuck do you know?
asshole
So because someone disagrees with you on the "god" question, that makes him an "asshole"??
And religious people wonder why they are so disliked by the rest of us. ::)
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The only way you can help him, would be to donate billions to fund research in order to develop a cure.
There is no god, praying is useless and stupid. NEVER has a prayer cured anyone.
Disease does not work by chance and has known and identifiable characteristics. This is not supernatural in nature, and you dolts should not treat it as such.
Stop wasting your time.
This is the form of atheism that really annoys me (strong atheism). You don't know there is no god any more than any religious person (regardless of religion) knows that there is a god. The mere question is simply beyond our ontology and it is impossible to answer.
Prayers actually do work though - but the reason for this is sociological and not theistic - people with larger support groups are more likely to pull through a life threatening episode than those who do not have them. But an atheist with a large support group would likely have just as high odds than a religious person who is being prayed for by their church. This is under the assumption that they are conscious and able to acknowledge the prayers of others of course.
Like everything else in life, the topics here do not have a black and white answer but the truth lies somewhere in between. TA is no more right about knowing for a fact that there are no deities any more than a religious person is right to know there is a deity. Granted, I would give the edge to TA because his thoughts are an illogical conclusion but at least founded on a logical basis (there being no evidence(s) at all of any god(s) existing).
Lastly, TA could make the same points in a better way as was pointed out. As it is, the only people who will agree with him are those already on his side. He would benefit from learning how to discuss and debate in such a way where he gets some of his opposition to agree with him. If not, what is the point?
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This is the form of atheism that really annoys me (strong atheism). You don't know there is no god any more than any religious person (regardless of religion) knows that there is a god. The mere question is simply beyond our ontology and it is impossible to answer.
Prayers actually do work though - but the reason for this is sociological and not theistic - people with larger support groups are more likely to pull through a life threatening episode than those who do not have them. But an atheist with a large support group would likely have just as high odds than a religious person who is being prayed for by their church. This is under the assumption that they are conscious and able to acknowledge the prayers of others of course.
Like everything else in life, the topics here do not have a black and white answer but the truth lies somewhere in between. TA is no more right about knowing for a fact that there are no deities any more than a religious person is right to know there is a deity. Granted, I would give the edge to TA because his thoughts are an illogical conclusion but at least founded on a logical basis (there being no evidence(s) at all of any god(s) existing).
Lastly, TA could make the same points in a better way as was pointed out. As it is, the only people who will agree with him are those already on his side. He would benefit from learning how to discuss and debate in such a way where he gets some of his opposition to agree with him. If not, what is the point?
You are a fucking moron. You don`t believe in fairies or Gnomes now do you? They have the same track record of existence and evidence as a God.
I really think you are a moron.
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This is the form of atheism that really annoys me (strong atheism). You don't know there is no god any more than any religious person (regardless of religion) knows that there is a god. The mere question is simply beyond our ontology and it is impossible to answer.
Prayers actually do work though - but the reason for this is sociological and not theistic - people with larger support groups are more likely to pull through a life threatening episode than those who do not have them. But an atheist with a large support group would likely have just as high odds than a religious person who is being prayed for by their church. This is under the assumption that they are conscious and able to acknowledge the prayers of others of course.
Like everything else in life, the topics here do not have a black and white answer but the truth lies somewhere in between. TA is no more right about knowing for a fact that there are no deities any more than a religious person is right to know there is a deity. Granted, I would give the edge to TA because his thoughts are an illogical conclusion but at least founded on a logical basis (there being no evidence(s) at all of any god(s) existing).
Lastly, TA could make the same points in a better way as was pointed out. As it is, the only people who will agree with him are those already on his side. He would benefit from learning how to discuss and debate in such a way where he gets some of his opposition to agree with him. If not, what is the point?
Prayer helps?
Not even close.
Prayers don't help heart surgery patients; Some fare worse when prayed for.
Many - if not most people - believe that prayer will help you through a medical crisis such as heart bypass surgery. If a large group of people outside yourself, your family, and your friends joined in intercessory prayer, that should be even more helpful, so such reasoning goes.
Researchers have been trying to prove this and even to measure the effect. Now, the largest study to date, covering 1,800 people who underwent coronary bypass surgery at six different hospitals, supported the latter research.
Not only that, but patients who knew that others were praying for them fared worse than those who did not receive such spiritual support, or who did but were not aware of it.
Those who conducted the study are quick to say that its results do not challenge the existence of God. Also, it did not try to address such religious questions as the efficacy of one form of prayer over others, whether God answers intercessory prayers, or whether prayers from one religious group work better than prayers from another, according to the Rev. Dean Marek, a chaplain at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn.
Other researchers in the study, who include investigators from Harvard Medical School, Harvard-affiliated Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center and Mind/Body Medical Institute, agree. Also involved were teams from medical institutions in Oklahoma City, Washington, D.C., Memphis, and Rochester, Minn.
"The primary goal of the study was limited to evaluating whether intercessory prayer or the knowledge of receiving it would influence recovery after bypass surgery," notes Jeffery Dusek, an instructor in medicine at Harvard Medical School. The evaluation found that third-party prayer has no effect at all on recovery from surgery without complications, and that patients who knew they were receiving prayer fared worse that those who were not prayed for.
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I am usually a True Adonis supporter, but he is dead wrong on this one. Prayer helps a shit load of people. I recall several well done studies stating this. One study (forget all the specifics, and what diseases and stuff), but there was a cure rate of 30% of those who prayed vs 5% who did not, and it was a big study. it does help.
even if you do not believe in GOD, even being spiritual and believing in a "higher power" heals. This is the foundation of Alcoholics Anonymous-which has been PROVEN to be VERY effective for many.
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You are a fucking moron. You don`t believe in fairies or Gnomes now do you? They have the same track record of existence and evidence as a God.
I really think you are a moron.
I'll give you the same honest advice that I gave Jimmy: a good book for you to read is "How to Win Friends and Influence People". For me, it wasn't new information, it just confirmed that the way I have always been relating to people is effective. Your methods need work though, and that is an objective statement. Using ad hominem attacks is not going to further your case or get me to agree with you. It will in fact have just the opposite effect and get more people on my side. That is just how human psychology works.
I don't mean to compare you to Jimmy though because you are actually likable. Despite your insults I would still want to chill out with you or go to the gym if you lived near me lol. Mainly because I know how you talk and sometimes you speak in an intense way but don't really mean any harm.
As for your comment about gnomes, if you have been following getbig lately, you may have caught my comment here:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=147243.0
I do not deny that there could be a god. However, to leap from this to believing that said god exists is as rational as saying, "Invisible fire breathing dragons could exist, therefore I will start believing in them."
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I am usually a True Adonis supporter, but he is dead wrong on this one. Prayer helps a shit load of people. I recall several well done studies stating this. One study (forget all the specifics, and what diseases and stuff), but there was a cure rate of 30% of those who prayed vs 5% who did not, and it was a big study. it does help.
even if you do not believe in GOD, even being spiritual and believing in a "higher power" heals. This is the foundation of Alcoholics Anonymous-which has been PROVEN to be VERY effective for many.
Prayer 'no aid to heart patients'
Groups from different faiths prayed for patients
Praying for patients undergoing heart operations does not improve their outcomes, a US study suggests. A study found those who were prayed for were as likely to have a setback in hospital, be re-admitted, or die within six months as those not prayed for.
The Duke University Medical Center study of 700 patients, in the Lancet, said music, image and touch therapy did appear to reduce patients' distress.
Heart experts said patients could benefit from feeling more optimistic.
Further evidence is emerging that people with a more positive outlook appear to be less affected by stressful events, such as having surgery
Dr Charmaine Griffiths, British Heart Foundation
Therapies such as prayer and homeopathy are widely used, although past studies looking at the impact of care on patients' health have had mixed results.
The results of this study contradict earlier findings from the same team which suggested a drop of a quarter or more in "adverse outcomes" - including death, heart failure or heart attack.
However, that trial involved only 150 patients. Other research since has found no evidence of any benefits.
This study looked at 700 patients undergoing angiograms (an X-ray of the blood vessels) or other heart operations at nine hospitals across the US.
Christian, Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist prayer groups were assigned to pray for 371 of the patients. The rest had no prayer group.
In addition, 374 of the patients were assigned MIT therapy and the rest none.
MIT involved teaching the patients relaxed breathing techniques and playing them easy listening, classical, or country music during their procedure.
The researchers found that neither therapy alone, or combined, showed any measurable treatment effect on serious cardiovascular events, hospital readmission or death.
But those given music, imagery and touch therapy had less emotional distress and had a lower death rate after six months, though this was not seen as statistically significant.
'Proper subjects'
Dr Mitchell Krucoff, who led the study, said: "If we want to understand the role of human capacities and resources in the midst of our most advanced medical technologies, we have to do good science.
"With no notion of the actual mechanisms involved in ancient healing practices such as prayer or touch or music, structured outcomes research allows us to collect data that we can learn from in many ways."
A Lancet editorial on the paper said it would be premature to rule out the use of such therapies in modern medicine.
It added: "The contribution that hope and belief make to a personal understanding of illness cannot be dismissed so lightly.
"They are proper subjects for science, even while transcending its known bounds."
Dr Charmaine Griffiths, spokesperson for the British Heart Foundation, said: "While this research suggests that prayer and alternative therapies do not improve the clinical outcome for patients undergoing heart procedures, there is increasing interest in the possibility that positive emotional states are beneficial to heart health."
She said associations had been seen between positive emotional states and low levels of the stress hormone cortisol.
"Further evidence is emerging that people with a more positive outlook appear to be less affected by stressful events, such as having surgery."
She added: "Patients learning to relax by using breathing techniques and listening to music, and being aware that others are thinking of them may contribute to a more optimistic outlook.
"Whether these effects are significant remains unproven."
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Prayers don't help heart surgery patients; Some fare worse when prayed for.
TA - there is a difference between heart ailments and cancer. Those with cancer who really fought the disease hard (mentally) were more likely to beat it than those who were passive - but the opposite was true for heart ailments. I would assume the reason for that is because the excitement of fighting something causes a degree of stress or eustress related that is not easy on the heart muscle. With cancer patients, the heart muscle is already strong and the related stress does not effect the cancer growth. Just my educated guess on this. In general, support groups are known to help. I would link you to scientific resources on this, but I am busy trying to upload two interviews and a protein powder review right now.
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I still think its best to pray for your own illnesses. However, how can one ever say "prayer does not work." example:
I pray for a heart patient and they "do not get better." they go on requiring a pace-maker and so forth. but what if I did not pray?- perhaps that patient may have died in 24 hours. so one can truly know.
It is an excellent thing to do (helps mentally, helps bond people, etc) with NO SIDE EFFECTS whatsoever.
thus, why would one NOT pray?
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TA - there is a difference between heart ailments and cancer. Those with cancer who really fought the disease hard (mentally) were more likely to beat it than those who were passive - but the opposite was true for heart ailments. I would assume the reason for that is because the excitement of fighting something causes a degree of stress or eustress related that is not easy on the heart muscle. With cancer patients, the heart muscle is already strong and the related stress does not effect the cancer growth. Just my educated guess on this. In general, support groups are known to help. I would link you to scientific resources on this, but I am busy trying to upload two interviews and a protein powder review right now.
Don`t bother. My Mom has cancer and I see plenty of cancer patients. The result is always the same and is not prolonged by anything other than modern medicine.
Retards, who are not cognizant of death let alone cancer, who also have cancer, do not live any longer or shorter.
Hope this helps.
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I still think its best to pray for your own illnesses. However, how can one ever say "prayer does not work." example:
I pray for a heart patient and they "do not get better." they go on requiring a pace-maker and so forth. but what if I did not pray?- perhaps that patient may have died in 24 hours. so one can truly know.
It is an excellent thing to do (helps mentally, helps bond people, etc) with NO SIDE EFFECTS whatsoever.
thus, why would one NOT pray?
Why would you not believe in a Giant Flying Spaghetti Monster?
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prayer and religon is a load of shit, if you need to believe your weak and if im going to hell for saying it go fark yourselves :o
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Why would you not believe in a Giant Flying Spaghetti Monster?
I don't mean to change the topic of this thread, I hope he gets well.
Adonis, check this out, evidence of chimpanzees using spears now. They are coming along very nicely, I wonder how long until they make up fake gods and start killing each other over which fake god is better?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6387611.stm
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well, everything I prayed for in my life I got. nearly 100%.
how can one not believe in God? The hundreds of billion details that all must perfectly come together in only one human is beyond remarkable. how do you define your own existance? why even go on living if all this is for shit?
even if there was not a heaven or God, the thought and belief help many people who struggle through every day life. gives one hope there is something beyond this.
How can you seriously not pray for your mom's cancer? Maybe something bad happened to you and u lost your faith? well everything happens for a reason, and even if you don;t pray or believe in God, if you did it would help you cope and deal better with these situations.
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How can you people not believe in God or heaven. did your parents beat you?
If someone came up to you and said here is an ATM card, put this into the ATM and you MAY get a million dollars, not ever have to work again and you will be takin to some tropical island and relax with plenty of beer around you. the costs: nothing.
how can one truly turn down that deal? if you said you would, you are a liar.
Same is for God and heaven, etc. No costs, other than spending an hour in church and having faith. the benefits: life in heaven.
well, i will be there, and I will laugh at your asses who are not simply cause some jackass thinks praying is for the "weak."
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:( REG IS A LEGEND.
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So because someone disagrees with you on the "god" question, that makes him an "asshole"??
And religious people wonder why they are so disliked by the rest of us. ::)
Absolutely, just read the bible and therein you will find the wrath of God that atheists and pagans have been/will be subject to.
j/k, he was an asshole for inserting that comment. It just doesn't belong there... no one on this thread is arguing for the existence of God- we are merely wishing him well, and those of us who are religious here are praying for him. Pretty harmless now isn't it? Is anyone here imposing their religious view on someone else?
Now compare that to the All-Fvcking-Knowing atheist here who wants to impose his views on religious people. IMO, proclaiming with so much certainty that there is no God is in itself a ridiculous comment (= douchebag), but this guy had to take it a step further and impose the view on other people.
Who's the asshole now, BIATCH? >:(
;D
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How can you people not believe in God or heaven. did your parents beat you?
If someone came up to you and said here is an ATM card, put this into the ATM and you MAY get a million dollars, not ever have to work again and you will be takin to some tropical island and relax with plenty of beer around you. the costs: nothing.
how can one truly turn down that deal? if you said you would, you are a liar.
Same is for God and heaven, etc. No costs, other than spending an hour in church and having faith. the benefits: life in heaven.
well, i will be there, and I will laugh at your asses who are not simply cause some jackass thinks praying is for the "weak."
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Carl Sagan
The human body is flawed heavily. There is nothing amazing about it.
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How can you people not believe in God or heaven. did your parents beat you?
If someone came up to you and said here is an ATM card, put this into the ATM and you MAY get a million dollars, not ever have to work again and you will be takin to some tropical island and relax with plenty of beer around you. the costs: nothing.
how can one truly turn down that deal? if you said you would, you are a liar.
Same is for God and heaven, etc. No costs, other than spending an hour in church and having faith. the benefits: life in heaven.
well, i will be there, and I will laugh at your asses who are not simply cause some jackass thinks praying is for the "weak."
If everything was just left up to "God did it", we would not have progressed in any shape or form from thousands of years ago.
If everyone believed that, we would not even bother with figuring out the complexities of the universe, nor anything regarding modern medicine.
I would rather die, than surrender my inquisitive mind. I am not satisified with supernatural, non-eviduciary answers.
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It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Carl Sagan
The human body is flawed heavily. There is nothing amazing about it.
Carl Sagan was an athiest as are you, maybe you two can talk it over in hell!
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How can you people not believe in God or heaven. did your parents beat you?
If someone came up to you and said here is an ATM card, put this into the ATM and you MAY get a million dollars, not ever have to work again and you will be takin to some tropical island and relax with plenty of beer around you. the costs: nothing.
well, i will be there, and I will laugh at your asses who are not simply cause some jackass thinks praying is for the "weak."
Oh boy, you're one stupid fuck.
You can't reason why certain logical thinkers don't arrive to the conclusion of an all knowing supernatural figure, so you come up with some bullshit red herring attack like "did your parents beat you?"
If I say a purple dinosaur is the real creator of the Universe, then that statement will have the same validity as your god. Except your god has been conditioned into the minds of ignorant people for thousands of years. ::) Taught from an early age and no proof offered except for fairy tales from the Middle East written by con men and tricksters.
You don't have any proof of your god, or heaven. You're just bullshitting what you've been taught from an early age because you're too fucking stupid to base any sort of arguements based on research, fact, science and plain logic.
Your analogy of getting a big bank account and praying in a church on sunday is laughable. Stupid fucks like you need to lined up in front of a machine gun and mowed down so you're not allowed to spread ignorance or breed.
Prayers are basically similar to a placebo affect and not the hand of an old boogey man from the sky reaching down and injecting you with good health. ::)
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You don't have any proof of your god, or heaven. You're just bullshitting what you've been taught from an early age because you're too fucking stupid to base any sort of arguements based on research, fact, science and plain logic.
You have no proof God doesn't exist, I can say the same thing, there are no concrete facts that you have or anyone else has that that shows that we or the universe wasn't created.
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You are a fucking moron. You don`t believe in fairies or Gnomes now do you? They have the same track record of existence and evidence as a God.
I really think you are a moron.
You're a fairy and Gnome, yet you exist!
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http://realserver.princeton.edu:8080/ramgen/lectures/20070109wardVN350K.rm
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You have no proof God doesn't exist, I can say the same thing, there are no concrete facts that you have or anyone else has that that shows that we or the universe wasn't created.
::)
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=147631.0
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Oh boy, you're one stupid fuck.
You can't reason why certain logical thinkers don't arrive to the conclusion of an all knowing supernatural figure, so you come up with some bullshit red herring attack like "did your parents beat you?"
If I say a purple dinosaur is the real creator of the Universe, then that statement will have the same validity as your god. Except your god has been conditioned into the minds of ignorant people for thousands of years. ::) Taught from an early age and no proof offered except for fairy tales from the Middle East written by con men and tricksters.
You don't have any proof of your god, or heaven. You're just bullshitting what you've been taught from an early age because you're too fucking stupid to base any sort of arguements based on research, fact, science and plain logic.
Your analogy of getting a big bank account and praying in a church on sunday is laughable. Stupid fucks like you need to lined up in front of a machine gun and mowed down so you're not allowed to spread ignorance or breed.
Prayers are basically similar to a placebo affect and not the hand of an old boogey man from the sky reaching down and injecting you with good health. ::)
haha. wow. profoundly dumb. you need help. I will not pray for you. Idiots like you do not deserve to go to heaven. I quess why it makes it heaven, all the jackass non-believers who have a 2 year-old mentality of "no proof= no existence" are kept out. only great people are there, which I quess make it heaven. You and the rest of your athiest losers, I will not feel sorry for, but laugh it up. enjoy.
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You have no proof God doesn't exist, I can say the same thing, there are no concrete facts that you have or anyone else has that that shows that we or the universe wasn't created.
...
Why would I have to disprove something that's never been proven? The fact is that people like you don't want to comprehend how certain things come about, so you find little gaps and insert a concept called god. :-\
And like I said before, I can say a purple dinosaur created the universe in a second and it would be just as valid as your god.
It would be like you murdering a man and saying "Oh, but god told me to do it!" We would have no way of disproving you, but chances are you = guilty.
Good night, Joe.
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Way to hijack the thread with your religious beliefs TA. Mighty "big" of you. Class act.
God or no God, my heartfelt wishes go out to Reg and his family.
I saw Reg speak at an Arnold Classic years ago. He seemed like a nice dude.
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I will pray for Reg as well as his family.
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haha. wow. profoundly dumb. you need help. I will not pray for you. Idiots like you do not deserve to go to heaven. I quess why it makes it heaven, all the jackass non-believers who have a 2 year-old mentality of "no proof= no existence" are kept out. only great people are there, which I quess make it heaven. You and the rest of your athiest losers, I will not feel sorry for, but laugh it up. enjoy.
So you judge individuals by the level of their belief? Whatever happened to the content of peoples' charactes, their actions and their contributions to the human race?
I don't want to go to your heaven. And on the contrary, I think you are the one who needs help! ;D
God or no God, my heartfelt wishes go out to Reg and his family.
Of course! Reg Park was Arnold's idol.. Without him there might have never been any Governator, bb'er and moviestar.
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How can you people not believe in God or heaven. did your parents beat you?
If someone came up to you and said here is an ATM card, put this into the ATM and you MAY get a million dollars, not ever have to work again and you will be takin to some tropical island and relax with plenty of beer around you. the costs: nothing.
how can one truly turn down that deal? if you said you would, you are a liar.
Same is for God and heaven, etc. No costs, other than spending an hour in church and having faith. the benefits: life in heaven.
well, i will be there, and I will laugh at your asses who are not simply cause some jackass thinks praying is for the "weak."
This is what's called Pascal's Wager, and it's based on faulty logic for several reasons:
1. assuming the god of the bible exists, god must be stupid if you think you can trick him into thinking you believe when you don't.
2. There are thousands of gods who have been worshiped and each says you can't believe in other gods and there's no greater proof for one than for any other. So odds are against you picking the right god to believe in.
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This is what's called Pascal's Wager, and it's based on faulty logic for several reasons:
1. assuming the god of the bible exists, god must be stupid if you think you can trick him into thinking you believe when you don't.
2. There are thousands of gods who have been worshiped and each says you can't believe in other gods and there's no greater proof for one than for any other. So odds are against you picking the right god to believe in.
Your (1) doesn't make any sense. And your (2) doesn't address the wager, it just states facts that are obliquely related to the given scenario.
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Carl Sagan was an athiest as are you, maybe you two can talk it over in hell!
hahaha adonis owned.
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Grow the fuck up people, this is not the thread to argue about religion.
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Grow the fuck up people, this is not the thread to argue about religion.
Whats the purpose?
We know hes seriously ill and we know he is going to die.
Thanks for informing us, the only thing we can do is come up with a few billions of dollars to save him, but I suggest, as one can clearly see by the religious ignorance presented here and all around, he is simply not worth a few billion and so he will die.
Just like Millions of others out of a by product of religioisty which attempts to stymie science and technological development.
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True Adonis how do you know there is no god? Have you died and came back to tell us? You can read all the little studies and theories but you have no idea. When you die you will find out the truth. I hope you drop quickly.
hope this helps
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All the best to Reg and Mareon.
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True Adonis how do you know there is no god? Have you died and came back to tell us? You can read all the little studies and theories but you have no idea. When you die you will find out the truth. I hope you drop quickly.
hope this helps
hahah when you die. hahhahahah
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hahah when you die. hahhahahah
Thats the only way to find out.
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Thats the only way to find out.
Your fairy tales states that Convientently so because of the impossibility. hahahahaha
It a paradox. Once you die, you are dead, thus avoiding all explanation whatsoever. Truly stupid and illogical.
Pretty sad that the only way you can find if your mythical god exists or not is based on your own death. What is so special about death?
We all know what death is like. It feels EXACTLY the same as before you were born.
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hahaha Of course God doesn't exist. Not the Christian idea of God anyway.
Anyone claiming God is real should realise the burden of proof in on you to prove it!
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hahaha Of course God doesn't exist. Not the Christian idea of God anyway.
Anyone claiming God is real should realise the burden of proof in on you to prove it!
Actually since we (Christians) have been claiming the existance of God/Jesus for over 2000 years, that would put the burden of proof on you and since you think that the non-existance of God is so concrete with science (and we have just as much science) it would be a non-issue for everyone and there would be no need for debate, but alas.......we'll argue back and forth till the day we die, but since I'll be at peace in Heaven with God, you can be on the other end dealing with satin himself!
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We know hes seriously ill and we know he is going to die.
Such an empty desolate point of view; i think the wrong person's dying. :-\
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he's been around long enough. but him down already
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Actually since we (Christians) have been claiming the existance of God/Jesus for over 2000 years, that would put the burden of proof on you and since you think that the non-existance of God is so concrete with science (and we have just as much science) it would be a non-issue for everyone and there would be no need for debate, but alas.......we'll argue back and forth till the day we die, but since I'll be at peace in Heaven with God, you can be on the other end dealing with satin himself!
It doesn't work that way.
I have no proof Santa Claus doesn't exist either.
Any sort of claim about the existence of fairies gods etc puts the burden of proof on the claimer.
You have no scientific evidence proving god exist.
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It doesn't work that way.
I have no proof Santa Claus doesn't exist either.
Any sort of claim about the existence of fairies gods etc puts the burden of proof on the claimer.
You have no scientific evidence proving god exist.
We can start here..........
http://www.khouse.org/6640/CD103/
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It doesn't work that way.
Any sort of claim about the existence of fairies gods etc puts the burden of proof on the claimer.
You have no scientific evidence proving god exist.
Exactly.
I guarantee if anyone claimed they were GOD or Jesus reborn then those same people who worship him/her/it would consider that person nuts. Why is that? Isn't Jesus supposed to come back some time and kick it on earth again? How do you jesus freaks know who it will be? Oh wait he has long hair and a beard.... ::)
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Exactly.
I guarantee if anyone claimed they were GOD or Jesus reborn then those same people who worship him/her/it would consider that person nuts. Why is that? Isn't Jesus supposed to come back some time and kick it on earth again? How do you jesus freaks know who it will be? Oh wait he has long hair and a beard.... ::)
Yes, I'm waiting for Intenseone to knock us over with scientific proof the Christian God exist. hahahah. Don't hold out too long. I'm not reading a bunch of links either; I don't have time to waist so please summarise for me.
The emperor Constantine saw Christianity as something that would placate the people and make the empire stable...the same reason Christianity is proliferated by the blustering blowhard pundits today. Not to mention it was cheaper than the elaborate pagan rituals. The people espousing these fairytales don't believe it, but it's important for stability. If people believe in god and a better life in heaven, they don't think about how their social security is being robbed hahahaha.
Also, the bible was written years after Jesus died, so we don't even know if it portrays his beliefs accurately.
Monster secondhand information hahahaha.
Walked on water? Please...
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Yes, I'm waiting for Intenseone to knock us over with scientific proof the Christian God exist. hahahah. Don't hold out too long. I'm not reading a bunch of links either, I don't have time to waist so please summarise for me.
The emperor Constantine saw Christianity as something that would placate the people and make the empire stable...the same reason Christianity is proliferated by the blustering blowhard pundits today. The people espousing these fairytales don't believe it, but it's important for stability. If people believe in god and a better life in heaven, they don't think about how their social security is being robbed hahahaha.
Also, the bible was written after Jesus died, so we don't even know if it portrays his beliefs accurately.
Monster secondhand information hahahaha.
Walked on water? Please...
you can start with the link i posted!
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you can start with the link i posted!
What's it say? What's the proof? Can you quote a specific excerpt or explain it in your own words?
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What's it say? What's the proof? Can you quote a specific excerpt or explain it in your own words?
Listen and find out.
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Listen and find out.
So you can't explain it in otherwords. You just hear someone that you accept as smarter than yourself, listen to the conclusion, and then point to that as an example. Another piece of livestock in the flock of sheeple. hahaah.
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So you can't explain it in otherwords. You just hear someone that you accept as smarter than yourself, listen to the conclusion, and then point to that as an example. Another piece of livestock in the flock of sheeple. hahaah.
Ok dude, whatever ::)
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Ok dude, whatever ::)
Exactly.
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I saw Reg Park last year when he was a guest speaker at a IFBB competition in Cape town.
My late Dad was also from that era and always spoke highly of him.
I wish him and his family well.
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Don`t bother. My Mom has cancer and I see plenty of cancer patients. The result is always the same and is not prolonged by anything other than modern medicine.
Retards, who are not cognizant of death let alone cancer, who also have cancer, do not live any longer or shorter.
Hope this helps.
I think you would be surprised at some of the findings in psychology as they relate to holistic or cultural healing.
Science and logic is the BEST chance we have at anything in life. If you stick with science, you are giving yourself the best odds possible!! :) But it is narrow minded (and simply wrong) to rule out everything else - you would be surprised at the number of people who did not respond to conventional science but responded to something more unorthodox. That being said, there are FAR MORE people who did not respond to conventional treatment as opposed to science! So like I said - stick with science. You are speaking in black and white though, sort of like the religious people do.
Adonis, check this out, evidence of chimpanzees using spears now. They are coming along very nicely, I wonder how long until they make up fake gods and start killing each other over which fake god is better?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6387611.stm
As they evolve greater levels of intelligence and become aware of their mortality, they will also create gods as a means of coming to terms with death. I believe immortality is a yearning for all mortal beings.
Prayers are basically similar to a placebo affect and not the hand of an old boogey man from the sky reaching down and injecting you with good health. ::)
Exactly. Thank you Camel Jockey. My point is that TA fails to acknowledge that the placebo effect has a scientific basis.
hahaha adonis owned.
Pascal's wager has been thoroughly debunked.
Pretty sad that the only way you can find if your mythical god exists or not is based on your own death. What is so special about death?
We all know what death is like. It feels EXACTLY the same as before you were born.
And nobody can conclusively say what that means. Sometimes I WISH death was nonexistence. I live a pleasant life and am grateful for my short stay on earth, whether that be one more day or 100 more years. Death being nonexistence would be simple - I wouldn't have to face the possibility that it is anything unpleasant. I wish I could believe that. It is a lot harder to come to terms with death when it is viewed as the unknown. Both religious people and strong atheists have it easy when it comes to facing death.
Actually since we (Christians) have been claiming the existance of God/Jesus for over 2000 years, that would put the burden of proof on you and since you think that the non-existance of God is so concrete with science (and we have just as much science) it would be a non-issue for everyone and there would be no need for debate, but alas.......we'll argue back and forth till the day we die, but since I'll be at peace in Heaven with God, you can be on the other end dealing with satin himself!
Fallacy. The burden of proof is one the one making the positive claim.
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Actually since we (Christians) have been claiming the existance of God/Jesus for over 2000 years, that would put the burden of proof on you and since you think that the non-existance of God is so concrete with science (and we have just as much science) it would be a non-issue for everyone and there would be no need for debate, but alas.......we'll argue back and forth till the day we die, but since I'll be at peace in Heaven with God, you can be on the other end dealing with satin himself!
If I believed in 'god,' which I don't, I would never be this presumptuous.
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The only way you can help him, would be to donate billions to fund research in order to develop a cure.
There is no god, praying is useless and stupid. NEVER has a prayer cured anyone.
Disease does not work by chance and has known and identifiable characteristics. This is not supernatural in nature, and you dolts should not treat it as such.
Stop wasting your time.
hahaha, this is so true, I am not against prayer at all, I think it can be comforting as long as you know 'God works in mysterious ways" and your prayers may or may not be answered.
What makes me laugh is these militant Christians who spend all their time, money and effort into forming a prayer chain or something ridicuous like that across the country and believe its actually going to do something. Instead of pressuring their corrupt right wing politicians into finding actual cures for diseases using good and real science.
Enough of this faith based bullshit. Its ruining this country.
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You are a fucking moron. You don`t believe in fairies or Gnomes now do you? They have the same track record of existence and evidence as a God.
I really think you are a moron.
you do know there is a high chance based on belief and faith that a god exists, mathematicians and experts of probability determine this based on ones faith, its interesting but im not sure how to take it!..
i for one think creationism is a joke, to think the grand canyon was crafted in a 'day' - but there is just too much we dont know yet, so i suppose its minutely plausible.
also i think you fail to realize what significance the solar system is in the universe, think of it as that, too much out there for us to make and judgements, although i suppose we base our wants and needs on what we know and see/feel.
ah well just dont be so narrow minded, to each their own - to certain extents.
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For all of you religous nuts and not, read some of what atheists are writing.
The God Delusion
The End of Faith
Letter to a Christian Nation
You may like it and it may in fact increase your faith or not, but it will definitely convince you of the life and death imperative that we must begin to question all religions, doubt all faiths and continue seeking answers with our own minds and working everyday in making a better life for everyone using the best of today's knowledge and science. Blind faith is going to destoy the world.
Anyone who believes that blowing up a bus load of children is going to heaven based on faith and no proof is just one example of how dangerous faith can be. And it is not just muslims that have this crazy kind of belief system, it is all religions.
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Actually since we (Christians) have been claiming the existance of God/Jesus for over 2000 years, that would put the burden of proof on you and since you think that the non-existance of God is so concrete with science (and we have just as much science) it would be a non-issue for everyone and there would be no need for debate, but alas.......we'll argue back and forth till the day we die, but since I'll be at peace in Heaven with God, you can be on the other end dealing with satin himself!
Life is not a battle of who is going to get into heaven leaving behind a destroyed planet. That is the problem with all religions. Its like some kind of crazy race at all costs and who gives a fuck about the environment, the animals and the innocent people.
Wouldn't God be happy if we were all trying to make heaven on earth. Extreme religions and religious blind faith zealouts (including our President) are getting in the way of that and creating holy wars all across the gobe killing innocent people, and destroying our beautiful planet.
This belief that heaven is the answer and who gives a fuck about this life and this planet is just plain dangerous dogma.
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hi guys dont argue abt religion, religion = self belief . everyone has their own ideas its all cool
seriously, i dont know much abt reg park, his name is familiar to me that is all
imo if u guys are his fans and want to help him start sending him cards or some money or ask the family how you can help within ur means. do more than posting on the internet.
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hi guys dont argue abt religion, religion = self belief . everyone has their own ideas its all cool
that would be nice dude if thats what it was but dont you read the papers, Religions are at war. Their ruining the world for all of us, the moderate religious, the spiritual, the mystics, the athiests, the ones that think for themselves.
I am all for developing your own religion and philosophy of life. Of course we as a society have to agree on some things. And that is the problem. Nobody can agree on who gets to heaven and they are willing to kill for it especially in the name of 'protecting' their children. hahahahah
I say lets make heaven here on earth.
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you do know there is a high chance based on belief and faith that a god exists, mathematicians and experts of probability determine this based on ones faith, its interesting but im not sure how to take it!..
i for one think creationism is a joke, to think the grand canyon was crafted in a 'day' - but there is just too much we dont know yet, so i suppose its minutely plausible.
also i think you fail to realize what significance the solar system is in the universe, think of it as that, too much out there for us to make and judgements, although i suppose we base our wants and needs on what we know and see/feel.
ah well just dont be so narrow minded, to each their own - to certain extents.
These mathematicians are conveniently forgetting that when there is no time limit, anything that can happen will, eventually. It's similar to the idea of eternal recurrence. Everything we are experiencing now will happen again someday as long as it is possible, however small the probability. It's like having unlimited rolls of the dice.
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Hey, Ron, we need a "Religious and Opinions" Board on here :)
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well, everything I prayed for in my life I got. nearly 100%.
how can one not believe in God? The hundreds of billion details that all must perfectly come together in only one human is beyond remarkable. how do you define your own existance? why even go on living if all this is for shit?
even if there was not a heaven or God, the thought and belief help many people who struggle through every day life. gives one hope there is something beyond this.
How can you seriously not pray for your mom's cancer? Maybe something bad happened to you and u lost your faith? well everything happens for a reason, and even if you don;t pray or believe in God, if you did it would help you cope and deal better with these situations.
You say you got 100% of everything you prayed for. I think that is an arrogant and purposely misleading statement. What do you say to a mother who's child is missing and she is praying fervently for her child's return. Is she doing something wrong? What about the missing children themselves that prayed to God to be returned to their parents and they never saw them again. What did they do wrong while they were praying? Maybe you can help. Is there some special way to get to God?
Also, there is nothing wrong with believing in a God, it gives you comfort and helps a lot of people through their very difficult lives. What is wrong is when a group of them get together and say they have the right way to the right God and then they start Holy wars in the name of that God. That is the danger of blind faith. That is the real sin and the one that Jesus was abhorred
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God bless Reg !!
TA -God bless your mom also
We ALL die TA-so it's not a question of whether there is or isn't a god-
I think you are an angry, self absorbed person who could benefit from religion & the freedom it brings.
I do hope your point of view changes one day & it may very well.
You are an enigma for sure in any case.
God Bless you
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To all the super-christians here who have hijacked the thread: may allah be with you.
Now STFU ;)
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This is the form of atheism that really annoys me (strong atheism). You don't know there is no god any more than any religious person (regardless of religion) knows that there is a god. The mere question is simply beyond our ontology and it is impossible to answer.
Matt C you nailed it with this paragraph. This is the truth.
People that are so ignorant to believe there is no God are the morons. I don't believe in religion but I do believe there is a God or Gods. A God is simply a Creator or an Infinite Intelligence. There are so many things that science cannot answer and both Einstein and Darwin admitted there "has to be some sort of God or Infinite Intelligence," because too many things in the world are simply inexplicable. It's best to just accept that we have a Creator and leave it at that because like Matt C said, the answer is simply beyond our comprehension.
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People that are so ignorant to believe there is no God are the morons. I don't believe in religion but I do believe there is a God or Gods. A God is simply a Creator or an Infinite Intelligence. There are so many things that science cannot answer and both Einstein and Darwin admitted there "has to be some sort of God or Infinite Intelligence," because too many things in the world are simply inexplicable. It's best to just accept that we have a Creator and leave it at that because like Matt C said, the answer is simply beyond our comprehension.
"Thank god" you've straightened this out for us ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz
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Matt C you nailed it with this paragraph. This is the truth.
People that are so ignorant to believe there is no God are the morons. I don't believe in religion but I do believe there is a God or Gods. A God is simply a Creator or an Infinite Intelligence. There are so many things that science cannot answer and both Einstein and Darwin admitted there "has to be some sort of God or Infinite Intelligence," because too many things in the world are simply inexplicable. It's best to just accept that we have a Creator and leave it at that because like Matt C said, the answer is simply beyond our comprehension.
You can use this argument for anything that one cannot explain, it becomes pointless.
If you went back in time and brought a caveman back and he saw all the explanations that we have come up with for what they once thought was "inexplicable" they would bow down and declare us GOD.
Also if this God is so large and beyond our understanding then how do you explain all these religions that claim they know God so intimately and know exactly what he wants and what we should all do with our lives to please him, so much so that they inflict much pain and suffering in the name of this God.
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So because someone disagrees with you on the "god" question, that makes him an "asshole"??
And religious people wonder why they are so disliked by the rest of us. ::)
no, hes an asshole because he says it as if he KNOWS there is no god and everyone who thinks there is, is an idiot. the fact is that there is not one human on this planet who KNOWS the answer to that question and there never will be!
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Matt C you nailed it with this paragraph. This is the truth.
People that are so ignorant to believe there is no God are the morons. I don't believe in religion but I do believe there is a God or Gods. A God is simply a Creator or an Infinite Intelligence. There are so many things that science cannot answer and both Einstein and Darwin admitted there "has to be some sort of God or Infinite Intelligence," because too many things in the world are simply inexplicable. It's best to just accept that we have a Creator and leave it at that because like Matt C said, the answer is simply beyond our comprehension.
Again, you are coming to a conclusion based on an assumption. Science gradually answers questions and will keep doing so.
Anywhere you find a gap, you insert god. ::)
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Quote from: Matt C on May 12, 2007, 03:20:11 PM
This is the form of atheism that really annoys me (strong atheism). You don't know there is no god any more than any religious person (regardless of religion) knows that there is a god. The mere question is simply beyond our ontology and it is impossible to answer.
What's wrong with strong atheism?
In the US, Christians always try and infringe upon the rights of people.. They openly preach hate against homosexuals, atheists and don't respect a woman's right to choose. Hell, I talked to this one preacher a while back who told me atheists don't have moral character comprable to christians because they don't recieve their values from god. ::) Faulty thinking like this should not be protected under the guise of "but I believe in it, so you need to respect it".
Why can't atheists attack religion and disect it via good logic based on science? Why respect something that has absolutely NO BASE of evidence? If a debate is judged and scored fairly, then the atheist would win every time and almost on every issue, so it's not like the sides are evenly matched either.
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is that like a cancer in the brain? how old is reg?
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These mathematicians are conveniently forgetting that when there is no time limit, anything that can happen will, eventually. It's similar to the idea of eternal recurrence. Everything we are experiencing now will happen again someday as long as it is possible, however small the probability. It's like having unlimited rolls of the dice.
i dont think time is a variable in the formula? it doesnt need to be.
it isnt a chance of god 'appearing' .. its a formula which is attempting to determine for each persons amount of belief and moral alignments that a god exists for them. it's a % factor a think, its pretty interesting, i first saw it on a documentary by the guy that did The Human Body, so it was interesting to see him .. declaring himself as a devout Jew.
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i dont think time is a variable in the formula? it doesnt need to be.
it isnt a chance of god 'appearing' .. its a formula which is attempting to determine for each persons amount of belief and moral alignments that a god exists for them. it's a % factor a think, its pretty interesting, i first saw it on a documentary by the guy that did The Human Body, so it was interesting to see him .. declaring himself as a devout Jew.
Eternal recurrence is entirely dependent on mass being finite and time being infinite. Think of our current "reality" as a certain configuration of matter. The probability of matter reconfiguring itself the exact same way is astronomically small, HOWEVER, if given infinite time it will do so. If I hand you a set of dice and ask you to role a specific sequence of numbers, at some point you will, given the necessary time, and however long the sequence.
With that in mind....
One theory of physicist is that all matter in the universe will eventually collapse into one incredibly dense piece of mass they call a singularity. From this state of matter it is theorised all mass was thrown out in the big bang. In an eternal cycle of big bangs and singularities,
there will be infinite occurrences of me and you typing to each other on Getbig (lol!)
Even the great Squadfather will return.
Sickening I know...
Another flaw of Christian thinking is the belief that we couldn't exist unless God had created us...
The "first cause" idea.
Law of conservation of mass says matter can change form, but it cannot be created or destroyed. To deny this is to deny reality itself. We were never created; all the mass that exist always existed. The great philosopher Betrand Russell said, and I'm paraphrasing, "it is perhaps the limitation of our imaginations leading to the idea of a beginning. There is no reason to believe there ever was a beginning."
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Am-Not-Christian-Religion/dp/0671203231/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-8064003-1124737?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179195707&sr=8-2
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That is not good news to hear. I wish his family and him well.
I wish him all the best. I wish the same to his family.......
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The only way you can help him, would be to donate billions to fund research in order to develop a cure.
There is no god, praying is useless and stupid. NEVER has a prayer cured anyone.
Disease does not work by chance and has known and identifiable characteristics. This is not supernatural in nature, and you dolts should not treat it as such.
Stop wasting your time.
I wonder what you will be thinking when Satan rapes your weak ugly ass with his hot as lava cock
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From RegPark.net: (http://www.regpark.net)
We sadly inform all the thousands of family, friends and fans around the globe that Reg Park, The Legend, has been diagnosed with metastatic melanoma and we are told it is untreatable.
Even during this extremely trying time, in a way typical of Reg, he is concerned for each and every one of you, and he is optimistic.
He is now so glad and feels blessed to have his immediate family around him, and with all of us he is positive. We knew that he was an icon but only now have realized the immense love and influence he has had on thousands of lives. The support through phone calls, emails, visits and postings has been overwhelming.
Reg is currently undergoing radiation treatment and is exploring all other avenues possible.
The gym where Reg has been training himself, the other trainers, patrons and his clients over the last 15 years have sent messages and enquiries about his well being. His popularity has transcended people of all races and creeds - a tribute to Reg, known as The Legend.
He has walked the talk and lived life to the fullest, his way, and for that he will always be remembered as a true Legend.
In a tribute to Reg, his son Jon Jon, now based in LA, will be calling his new gym the Legacy Gym, to continue the legacy of transforming lives positively and continuing The Legend. His daughter Jeunesse will be forming the Reg Park Legacy Foundation to assist the many who cannot afford to have access to physical training to improve their quality of life.
Reg is a man who never compromised his principles or beliefs. It takes some thinking to realize what he achieved. Can you imagine any other world champion in any other field regardless of who they may be, and without disrespect to any, winning a world title three times over 14 years and then coming back five years later after his final victory and competing on an unleveled playing field, with those 21 years his junior, and still placing respectably in the top 3.
Reg is known to his family and to all others who know him as a REAL MAN.
He recognizes that we create our own reality and set our own life paths, he is a deeply spiritual man who loves life and especially rejoices in nature, a giving man who has helped so many.
Whatever you believe, power of prayer or positive thought, give a moment to the great Reg Park, our father, grandfather and Mareon’s loving husband. Now each day will be another day we have to be with Reg and keep him as comfortable in his family as we can
while he battles against this terrible affliction.
Even though Reg and the family may not respond to everyone’s attempts at contact, this does not mean we do not appreciate and recognize your love and support. Not only does it mean the world to Reg but also to us, his family.
We apologize for being somber while informing you of this. We know that Reg has been positive throughout his life in everything he has done and continues to do and always wants the same for all his family, friends, clients and fans. Thus we leave you with the message that Reg has always impressed upon us- live every moment to its fullest and cherish every breath of life.
The Park family
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Eternal recurrence is entirely dependent on mass being finite and time being infinite. Think of our current "reality" as a certain configuration of matter. The probability of matter reconfiguring itself the exact same way is astronomically small, HOWEVER, if given infinite time it will do so. If I hand you a set of dice and ask you to role a specific sequence of numbers, at some point you will, given the necessary time, and however long the sequence.
With that in mind....
One theory of physicist is that all matter in the universe will eventually collapse into one incredibly dense piece of mass they call a singularity. From this state of matter it is theorised all mass was thrown out in the big bang. In an eternal cycle of big bangs and singularities,
there will be infinite occurrences of me and you typing to each other on Getbig (lol!)
Even the great Squadfather will return.
Sickening I know...
Another flaw of Christian thinking is the belief that we couldn't exist unless God had created us...
The "first cause" idea.
Law of conservation of mass says matter can change form, but it cannot be created or destroyed. To deny this is to deny reality itself. We were never created; all the mass that exist always existed. The great philosopher Betrand Russell said, and I'm paraphrasing, "it is perhaps the limitation of our imaginations leading to the idea of a beginning. There is no reason to believe there ever was a beginning."
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Am-Not-Christian-Religion/dp/0671203231/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-8064003-1124737?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179195707&sr=8-2
you know alot more than me on the subject hehe, im a little immature to continue the conversation :P
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From the Park family
“We sadly inform all the thousands of family, friends and fans around the globe that Reg Park, The Legend, has been diagnosed with metastatic melanoma and we are told it is untreatable.
“Even during this extremely trying time, in a way typical of Reg, he is concerned for each and every one of you, and he is optimistic.
“He is now so glad and feels blessed to have his immediate family around him, and with all of us he is positive. We knew that he was an icon but only now have realized the immense love and influence he has had on thousands of lives. The support through phone calls, emails, visits and postings has been overwhelming.
“Reg is currently undergoing radiation treatment and is exploring all other avenues possible.
“The gym where Reg has been training himself, the other trainers, patrons and his clients over the last 15 years have sent messages and enquiries about his well being. His popularity has transcended people of all races and creeds - a tribute to Reg, known as The Legend.
“He has walked the talk and lived life to the fullest, his way, and for that he will always be remembered as a true Legend.
“In a tribute to Reg, his son Jon Jon, now based in LA, will be calling his new gym the Legacy Gym, to continue the legacy of transforming lives positively and continuing The Legend. His daughter Jeunesse will be forming the Reg Park Legacy Foundation to assist the many who cannot afford to have access to physical training to improve their quality of life.
“Reg is a man who never compromised his principles or beliefs. It takes some thinking to realize what he achieved. Can you imagine any other world champion in any other field regardless of who they may be, and without disrespect to any, winning a world title three times over 14 years and then coming back five years later after his final victory and competing on an unleveled playing field, with those 21 years his junior, and still placing respectably in the top 3.
“Reg is known to his family and to all others who know him as a REAL MAN.
“He recognizes that we create our own reality and set our own life paths, he is a deeply spiritual man who loves life and especially rejoices in nature, a giving man who has helped so many.
“Whatever you believe, power of prayer or positive thought, give a moment to the great Reg Park, our father, grandfather and Mareon’s loving husband. Now each day will be another day we have to be with Reg and keep him as comfortable in his family as we can while he battles against this terrible affliction.
“Even though Reg and the family may not respond to everyone’s attempts at contact, this does not mean we do not appreciate and recognize your love and support. Not only does it mean the world to Reg but also to us, his family.
“We apologize for being somber while informing you of this. We know that Reg has been positive throughout his life in everything he has done and continues to do and always wants the same for all his family, friends, clients and fans. Thus we leave you with the message that Reg has always impressed upon us- live every moment to its fullest and cherish every breath of life.”
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no, hes an asshole because he says it as if he KNOWS there is no god and everyone who thinks there is, is an idiot. the fact is that there is not one human on this planet who KNOWS the answer to that question and there never will be!
Exactly. TA needs a course in how to effectively communicate his points without being so rude and insensitive.
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From RegPark.net:
We sadly inform all the thousands of family, friends and fans around the globe that Reg Park, The Legend, has been diagnosed with metastatic melanoma and we are told it is untreatable.
Even during this extremely trying time, in a way typical of Reg, he is concerned for each and every one of you, and he is optimistic.
He is now so glad and feels blessed to have his immediate family around him, and with all of us he is positive. We knew that he was an icon but only now have realized the immense love and influence he has had on thousands of lives. The support through phone calls, emails, visits and postings has been overwhelming.
Reg is currently undergoing radiation treatment and is exploring all other avenues possible.
The gym where Reg has been training himself, the other trainers, patrons and his clients over the last 15 years have sent messages and enquiries about his well being. His popularity has transcended people of all races and creeds - a tribute to Reg, known as The Legend.
He has walked the talk and lived life to the fullest, his way, and for that he will always be remembered as a true Legend.
In a tribute to Reg, his son Jon Jon, now based in LA, will be calling his new gym the Legacy Gym, to continue the legacy of transforming lives positively and continuing The Legend. His daughter Jeunesse will be forming the Reg Park Legacy Foundation to assist the many who cannot afford to have access to physical training to improve their quality of life.
Reg is a man who never compromised his principles or beliefs. It takes some thinking to realize what he achieved. Can you imagine any other world champion in any other field regardless of who they may be, and without disrespect to any, winning a world title three times over 14 years and then coming back five years later after his final victory and competing on an unleveled playing field, with those 21 years his junior, and still placing respectably in the top 3.
Reg is known to his family and to all others who know him as a REAL MAN.
He recognizes that we create our own reality and set our own life paths, he is a deeply spiritual man who loves life and especially rejoices in nature, a giving man who has helped so many.
Whatever you believe, power of prayer or positive thought, give a moment to the great Reg Park, our father, grandfather and Mareon’s loving husband. Now each day will be another day we have to be with Reg and keep him as comfortable in his family as we can
while he battles against this terrible affliction.
Even though Reg and the family may not respond to everyone’s attempts at contact, this does not mean we do not appreciate and recognize your love and support. Not only does it mean the world to Reg but also to us, his family.
We apologize for being somber while informing you of this. We know that Reg has been positive throughout his life in everything he has done and continues to do and always wants the same for all his family, friends, clients and fans. Thus we leave you with the message that Reg has always impressed upon us- live every moment to its fullest and cherish every breath of life.
The Park family
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Oh wow...
All thoughts to Reg and his family...
One of the GREATS!
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From RegPark.net:
We sadly inform all the thousands of family, friends and fans around the globe that Reg Park, The Legend, has been diagnosed with metastatic melanoma and we are told it is untreatable.
Even during this extremely trying time, in a way typical of Reg, he is concerned for each and every one of you, and he is optimistic.
He is now so glad and feels blessed to have his immediate family around him, and with all of us he is positive. We knew that he was an icon but only now have realized the immense love and influence he has had on thousands of lives. The support through phone calls, emails, visits and postings has been overwhelming.
Reg is currently undergoing radiation treatment and is exploring all other avenues possible.
The gym where Reg has been training himself, the other trainers, patrons and his clients over the last 15 years have sent messages and enquiries about his well being. His popularity has transcended people of all races and creeds - a tribute to Reg, known as The Legend.
He has walked the talk and lived life to the fullest, his way, and for that he will always be remembered as a true Legend.
In a tribute to Reg, his son Jon Jon, now based in LA, will be calling his new gym the Legacy Gym, to continue the legacy of transforming lives positively and continuing The Legend. His daughter Jeunesse will be forming the Reg Park Legacy Foundation to assist the many who cannot afford to have access to physical training to improve their quality of life.
Reg is a man who never compromised his principles or beliefs. It takes some thinking to realize what he achieved. Can you imagine any other world champion in any other field regardless of who they may be, and without disrespect to any, winning a world title three times over 14 years and then coming back five years later after his final victory and competing on an unleveled playing field, with those 21 years his junior, and still placing respectably in the top 3.
Reg is known to his family and to all others who know him as a REAL MAN.
He recognizes that we create our own reality and set our own life paths, he is a deeply spiritual man who loves life and especially rejoices in nature, a giving man who has helped so many.
Whatever you believe, power of prayer or positive thought, give a moment to the great Reg Park, our father, grandfather and Mareon’s loving husband. Now each day will be another day we have to be with Reg and keep him as comfortable in his family as we can
while he battles against this terrible affliction.
Even though Reg and the family may not respond to everyone’s attempts at contact, this does not mean we do not appreciate and recognize your love and support. Not only does it mean the world to Reg but also to us, his family.
We apologize for being somber while informing you of this. We know that Reg has been positive throughout his life in everything he has done and continues to do and always wants the same for all his family, friends, clients and fans. Thus we leave you with the message that Reg has always impressed upon us- live every moment to its fullest and cherish every breath of life.
The Park family
Not trying to sound like an ass....but why bother if it's incurable?
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Not trying to sound like an ass....but why bother if it's incurable?
You can extend the quantity of life, if not the quality with chemo. His cancer has probably spread to vital organs, he will be dead in a couple months wihtout chemo, he can add maybe 6 months or more to his lifespan by tryign to slow it down.
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I'm not sure of that disease but will he turn into a giant green man?
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Not trying to sound like an ass....but why bother if it's incurable?
Would you give up?
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I'm not sure of that disease but will he turn into a giant green man?
FYI, Reg is one of the gentleman and original heros of bodybuilding. I know you are trying to be witty, but this man deserves our respect, please.
GODS speed Reg, we are pulling for ya. Howard White in Ga
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Would you give up?
No, been there, done that....melanoma is "no joke".
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Hopefully he will recover.
This is the worst and most deadly form of skin cancer. The fact that it has metastitized is even worse.
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Why would you not believe in a Giant Flying Spaghetti Monster?
JAH! Pastafari
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FYI, Reg is one of the gentleman and original heros of bodybuilding. I know you are trying to be witty, but this man deserves our respect, please.
GODS speed Reg, we are pulling for ya. Howard White in Ga
I respect Reg and I always do.
I meant no harm or any intention to hurt anyone.
I apologise if it did crossed someone.
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You can extend the quantity of life, if not the quality with chemo. His cancer has probably spread to vital organs, he will be dead in a couple months wihtout chemo, he can add maybe 6 months or more to his lifespan by tryign to slow it down.
Metastatic melanoma does carry a very poor prognosis. The fact that he is undergoing radiation therapy suggests that he may have metastatic lesions in his brain (radiation is usually used for bone and brain mets in melanoma)--another poor prognostic indicator. HOWEVER, there are people who live years even with widely metastatic melanoma, so treatment is not futile.
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I respect Reg and I always do.
I meant no harm or any intention to hurt anyone.
I apologise if it did crossed someone.
Thanks for having the integrity to reply in this manner. Lots of others here have shown a level of crude and rude/irrelevent posting that are as insensitive as they come. Look, get big has plenty of time and space for various threads and azz clownery, but c'mon, how about just once some of you show some compassion and treat a legend of this game with some dignity. Quite frankly, I was disgusted by the way some here posted in this thread that was started by a moving , sincere letter from the Park family.
Some of you have reached a new low and are in my book, quite ignorant.
This one one time when the ONLY reply should be one of support for the Reg and his family in their time of need.
Sincerely. Howard in Ga
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Thanks for having the integrity to reply in this manner. Lots of others here have shown a level of crude and rude/irrelevent posting that are as insensitive as they come. Look, get big has plenty of time and space for various threads and azz clownery, but c'mon, how about just once some of you show some compassion and treat a legend of this game with some dignity. Quite frankly, I was disgusted by the way some here posted in this thread that was started by a moving , sincere letter from the Park family.
Some of you have reached a new low and are in my book, quite ignorant.
This one one time when the ONLY reply should be one of support for the Reg and his family in their time of need.
Sincerely. Howard in Ga
am I high in your book? :)
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am I high in your book? :)
Thanks , but in this thread I am a NON issue, we need to focus on Reg and his family.
Howard
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This is the form of atheism that really annoys me (strong atheism). You don't know there is no god any more than any religious person (regardless of religion) knows that there is a god. The mere question is simply beyond our ontology and it is impossible to answer.
I have to disagee. Many people are very unforgiving towards atheists. Richard Dawkins writes a bit about this in his controversial book "The God Delusion". In USA, a majority of voters would not even vote for an atheist president candidate. Why is this so? In USA, one explanation may be the perceived association with communism. But I believe there may be more to it than that.
One clue is found if one ponders how many people like to call themselves agnostic rather than atheists. This is supposedly less controversial than atheism, as the atheistic world-view is seen as confronting religion head-on, saying "there is no god", while the agnostics supposedly say "i'm not sure what I think about this god-business". Thus, the explicit denial of a "god" may be what is so provocative about atheism to the general public. Maybe it's perceived as negativistic and arrogant?
To me, this is rather strange, as the distinction between atheism and agnostisism is essentially meaningless and may indicate unclear thinking about epistemology and ontology. Epistemology based on empirism should imply what coudl be called "possibilism". Inductive reasoning based on empirical observations can never rule out possible future observations. Thus, lack of positive evidence for a "god" can never disprove the possibility of future observations supporting the existance of a "god". Hence, for an empirist, there is no difference between atheism and agnostisism. No sane atheist would deny a "god" if a "god" somehow clearly manifested itself in an intersubjectively unambigous way. However, lacking such positive evidence, the question becomes why one should even discuss the existance of a "god"?
There may be one type of agnosticism that is exempt from this type of critisism. One way of interpreting Huxley's concept of agnostism that I am very fond of myself, is that theism is unintelligible and thus beyond "gnosis"*. When a theist speaks of "god", the concept is thus impossible to judge due to a lack of understanding of the concept. To me, this is an even stronger critisism of religious theism than atheism.
Anyway, to me, atheism need not be very confrontative. It is simply a statement concerning a perceived lack of positive evidence in support of theism.
Kolbjørn
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosis : "The term is used throughout Greek philosophy as a technical term of experience knowledge (see gnosiology) in contrast to theoretical knowledge which is akin to epistemology"
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KO at Draper's board:
http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/12308/ (http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/12308/)
I am sorry to hear that about Reg Park. I true Icon. Prayers to him & his family
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Best of luck to Reg and his family.
Considering the influence Reg had on Arnold, well it is probably safe to say that anyone that has followed/been influenced by Arnold in this sport, or even gotten a laugh from one of his cheesy one-liners owes Reg a debt of gratitude as well as we may not have seen the Oak if not for his influence.
Prayers for Reg and his family.
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Anyway, to me, atheism need not be very confrontative. It is simply a statement concerning a perceived lack of positive evidence in support of theism.
I especially like when Atheist ridicule theists. It cracks me up. The theists usually walk out of the room, not because they are insulted but because they have no intelligent response. Ridicule is one of their great weapons. I think Dawkins spoke on that too.
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I love how you guys turned a thread about Reg Park's cancer into a religious debate. ::)
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Scientifically, it is proven when a man's body passes, it weighs 21 grams less. The spirit cannot be visibly seen or captured...yet it does indeed exist. Where it came from, where it goes and who created it...no one can be certain...until they take the entire journey...
Bro, I think that has been disproven. :'(
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Scientifically, it is proven when a man's body passes, it weighs 21 grams less. The spirit cannot be visibly seen or captured...yet it does indeed exist. Where it came from, where it goes and who created it...no one can be certain...until they take the entire journey...
Do you wear tin foil on your head as a habit?