The most retarded of all the BB drug myths

[HowieW]

  The most lame, stupid and retarded myth is the one that says , all you need is the right "secret/magic cycle" and you can be a top pro.

Granted, I am against much of the extreme drug use we have in bodybuilding for legal and health reasons.
However, the thing that bugs me the most about drugs is how so many wannabe pros use "drugs" as the reason why they have yet to win a major show or go pro.
The basic truth is that drugs can turn a  really good, gifted physique into a great one.
If you lack the genetics , training work ethic or diet discipline; you won't ever be much in this sport.
Even the supplement companies exploit the wannabe types with insane claims for their products , that offer "drug like" effects to build muscle and burn fat, etc.

Save you money and don't risk your freedom and health on an empty pipedream.
If you respond well to the iron, it will be obvious and you may be the top 0.1% that has what it takes.
If that is YOU, enter a show and see how you do. If you kick butt, at that point you may consider what other risks you wish to take to push the envelope.

If, like most of us, you struggle to make gains and have never won a show, you might need a reality break.
Forget about the magic cycle or secret regimes and stick with a sensible routine to make progress.
Getting a trophy in your state or local meet is quite a rush and won't cause you to sell the farm in the process.

[Mr. Cortisol]

howie, you need a girl.


the fact you spent 10 minutes delivering this rubbish shows you're very bored with your life and focusing upon the choices and words of others that will never effect you.  It's akin to me pouring out my heart about why Bloods and Crips cannot just get along, for pete's sake. 

it's not your world anymore. Howie.  Make babies and get on with your life.  The years are flying by.

[HowieW]

howie, you need a girl.


the fact you spent 10 minutes delivering this rubbish shows you're very bored with your life and focusing upon the choices and words of others that will never effect you.  It's akin to me pouring out my heart about why Bloods and Crips cannot just get along, for pete's sake. 

it's not your world anymore. Howie.  Make babies and get on with your life.  The years are flying by.

I know, I don't think like the typical wannabe , hardcore lifter and that makes me "odd".
Perhaps, sensible posts about actual BB issues are a waste of time on this forum.
Ya know, ones about Tiger Woods on HGH is a lot more sensible and better use of time.
Or the typical fight between two board regulars about who "owned " who.
Better yet, why not find a million reasons to run down the top pros and make fun of them.
Talking about some common myth related to drugs in bodybuilding is pretty out of bounds after that "important stuff" ya know   I am so bored, compared to all the guys on here with a life hehehehe

[out of africa]

We all have to accept that drugs are a part of the sport.If you want to look like a bodybuilder you are going to have to juice.If you do not accept that then have a look at the guys who compete in the natural federations.Man it must suck to train your arse off every day and end up looking like a swimmer.

[YoungBlood]

howie, you need a girl.

He's got a girl. His ex-wife. She's a looker. Prior to her, there was a hottie named Beth, I think. She was nice, but wouldn't take it up the pooper so Howie dumped her. Before Beth there was his (again) current at which time they were married. She's got a bigger rack than your IQ score.

[dj181]

Even the supplement companies exploit the wannabe types with insane claims for their products , that offer "drug like" effects to build muscle and burn fat, etc

Here! Here! if you want to make a shit load of money and you have no scruples or morals get involved in the supplement business

[bodybuilder1234]

didn't we all know this already?
Stop beating a dead horse

[Matt C]

Training doesn't mean jack shit, Howie.

Fact, pros would be at least 80% of their size and conditioning if they merely took all the same drugs and literally did push-ups and chin-ups (if that).

Last I checked, cows being pumped full of BGH weren't "training" and gained hundreds of pounds of muscle merely on a high calorie diet alone.

[HowieW]

Training doesn't mean jack shit, Howie.

Fact, pros would be at least 80% of their size and conditioning if they merely took all the same drugs and literally did push-ups and chin-ups (if that).

Last I checked, cows being pumped full of BGH weren't "training" and gained hundreds of pounds of muscle merely on a high calorie diet alone.

Are you serious? you really believe this??? I can't even think of an intelligent reply based on my experience and observations in bodybuilding , other than ; " If what you say is 100% true, than why don't we have legions of gym rats that look like exactly like the top guys at the Olympia?"

[Captain Equipoise]

HowieW, do one serious proper cycle and you'll understand how much of bb'ing is drugs,  you can train like absolute shit, with the worst form and still grow like a weed... don't believe me? try it yourself.

Oh and for proof, just look at some of the pics of pro's off gear..ie. Levrone, Dorian, Flex, Titus, Tom Prince, etc. etc.
they're not exactly '300lbs. with abs'

[HowieW]

didn't we all know this already?
Stop beating a dead horse

I am trying to take this in a new direction.
I am NOT talking about the drugs as legal issues or reality on hardcore bodybuilding. I am looking at how so many hardcore types blame drugs for EVERYTHING in bodybuilding.
That is as wrong as saying drugs don't make ANY difference.
Why is moderation and logic such a hard sell in bodybuilding.
How is that so few in bodybuilding use any critical thought process or simple,basic, objective logic?
The more posts I read on the boards, the more I shake my head and think wtf?
Seriously, many of the retorts and counters are so off the wall and illogical, I just don't even understand them.

Hey Capt Eq. I did do a few basic cycles back in the mid 80's, and it enhanced my physique, but I was not delsuional enough to think I would be a top olympia pro ,no matter what I took.I am a good, NOT great bodybuilder.
Yes , the pros you mention have shrunk, but that is from health issues for the most part.
If they were healthy and trained and ate like they did before they would still look decent.
Once again, my basic premise is this:
Where are the 100's of guys that look like the top 5 pros , in top shape?
It is more genetics than drugs my friends. The "drugs are everything"  myth keeps the gurus in business and keeps the delusions alive in many wannabes. Just give me the right drug cycle and guru and I can be the next Mr O...NOT!Reality bites for many people I guess.
Howard

[Brutal_1]

Are you serious? you really believe this??? I can't even think of an intelligent reply based on my experience and observations in bodybuilding , other than ; " If what you say is 100% true, than why don't we have legions of gym rats that look like exactly like the top guys at the Olympia?"

One good example to prove Matt C's point is the fact that at the Olympia, you can have hard working ball busting guys like Ronnie and Dorian up there...standing next to and losing to guys like Flex and Dillett, both of which are notorious for being "lazy" in the gym.

At a certain point...yeah it's all about drug response.  

[HowieW]

One good example to prove Matt C's point is the fact that at the Olympia, you can have hard working ball busting guys like Ronnie and Dorian up there...standing next to and losing to guys like Flex and Dillett, both of which are notorious for being "lazy" in the gym.

At a certain point...yeah it's all about drug response.  

Response along with muscle shape and ability to gain sheer size while getting lean is genetics!
Plus ya gotta diet strictly no matter who you are , ya know.

[4thAD]

Training doesn't mean jack shit, Howie.

Fact, pros would be at least 80% of their size and conditioning if they merely took all the same drugs and literally did push-ups and chin-ups (if that).

Last I checked, cows being pumped full of BGH weren't "training" and gained hundreds of pounds of muscle merely on a high calorie diet alone.

Hahaha this is my vote for "The most retarded of all the BB drug myths". Are you really that misinformed Matt?

[HowieW]

Hahaha this is my vote for "The most retarded of all the BB drug myths". Are you really that misinformed Matt?

I waondered the same thing myself. I will let Matt answer.
My point was and still is, that unless you have the genetics , drive and overall "talent" for bodybuilding, all the drugs and special supplements don't mean jack crap.

[Brutal_1]

I waondered the same thing myself. I will let Matt answer.
My point was and still is, that unless you have the genetics , drive and overall "talent" for bodybuilding, all the drugs and special supplements don't mean jack crap.

I'm sorry...but you guys give "pros" way too much credit

[Matt C]

Are you serious? you really believe this??? I can't even think of an intelligent reply based on my experience and observations in bodybuilding , other than ; " If what you say is 100% true, than why don't we have legions of gym rats that look like exactly like the top guys at the Olympia?"

Read this abstract and if you have access to the journal, download and read the entire study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8637535

Four groups were studied:

1. Placebo with no exercise
2. Testosterone with no exercise
3. Placebo plus exercise
4. Testosterone plus exercise.

Both of the testosterone groups gained the most muscle and strength.  That means the ones taking steroids and not working out gained more than the ones who were natural (placebo) and working out.  Let's also keep in mind the placebo effect was at play here.  They may have gained even less muscle not using the placebo and being truly natural (this I am not sure of though).

The gains for those taking steroids were significantly higher than those taking a placebo.  The difference in gains between the steroid users who worked out and those who didn't were marginal.  Proof that steroids made the biggest difference.  The steroid users who also trained only made slightly better gains than the steroid users literally doing nothing.

Translated: if I were to stop working out and go on a cycle described above I would maintain or increase both my strength and muscularity without even working out.  I would gain more muscle and strength than I currently can naturally.  Fact.

This is exactly the same in pro bodybuilding only on a bigger scale of course.

I am NOT saying I could take the drugs Victor Martinez takes and look like him.  I am saying that HE could take the same drugs he is currently take, cease all training, and retain over 80% of his size and  conditioning eating the same diet, sleeping, and perhaps throwing in a few push-ups.

Cows gain hundreds of pounds of muscles on BGH simply by eating a high calorie diet due to the increased protein synthesis caused by said BGH.  They do not "work hard in the gym" which so many pro bodybuilders are delusional enough to believe make a big difference in their results.  The main catalyst for growth is steroids.

In comparison to drugs, training is fuck all.

[4thAD]

I have read many studies Matty. You will surely add some muscle with the use of AAS. You will not however get to pro size, or even look like a body builder just running AAS. It takes a lot of hard work and discipline with training and diet, to look like a body builder. Especially a pro. Real Body builders (natural and enhanced) Train their ass off. It does not come from a magic pill. Sorry bro but you are really misinformed. 

[Matt C]

I have read many studies Matty. You will surely add some muscle with the use of AAS. You will not however get to pro size, or even look like a body builder just running AAS. It takes a lot of hard work and discipline with training and diet, to look like a body builder. Especially a pro. Real Body builders (natural and enhanced) Train their ass off. It does not come from a magic pill. Sorry bro but you are really misinformed. 

And where did I claim that?  I must have missed the part where I ever wrote anything about drugs being able to make a person pro sized.

[chaos]

And where did I claim that?  I must have missed the part where I ever wrote anything about drugs being able to make a person pro sized.

Maybe you should re-read the first sentence in the first post.

[Matt C]

Maybe you should re-read the first sentence in the first post.

Sure...just did.

And my point is that drugs are the biggest, most important factor in pro bodybuilding.  Howie seems to be suggesting that lots of us think we would look like pro bodybuilders using the same drugs they do.  The "ALL DRUGS" camp is saying that pros would look much worse without drugs.  Not that we would look like them on drugs, more like they would look like us off drugs by and large.  They would look like nothing.  Guys 5'9 would MAYBE hit 200 shredded, and I doubt even that.

[Croatch]

We all have to accept that drugs are a part of the sport.If you want to look like a bodybuilder you are going to have to juice.If you do not accept that then have a look at the guys who compete in the natural federations.Man it must suck to train your arse off every day and end up looking like a swimmer.

haha, Epic loser mentality.  You'll fit in fine with the stable of "hardcore" bodybuilders out there.  Most people can't do jack naturally, but some however...can.  And most who juice, look like shit, not a pro bb.

[chaos]

Sure...just did.

And my point is that drugs are the biggest, most important factor in pro bodybuilding.  Howie seems to be suggesting that lots of us think we would look like pro bodybuilders using the same drugs they do.  The "ALL DRUGS" camp is saying that pros would look much worse without drugs.  Not that we would look like them on drugs, more like they would look like us off drugs by and large.  They would look like nothing.  Guys 5'9 would MAYBE hit 200 shredded, and I doubt even that.

Nowhere in your post do I see, "genetics" or "response".....regardless of drugs usage, these two factors play a huge role in the development of the body, with or without steroids. I think that is what Howie is trying to say.

[Matt C]

Nowhere in your post do I see, "genetics" or "response".....regardless of drugs usage, these two factors play a huge role in the development of the body, with or without steroids. I think that is what Howie is trying to say.

Genetic response to drugs is very important.  Also, genetic structure.

[chaos]

Genetic response to drugs is very important.  Also, genetic structure.

Totally agree.