BSN signs another pro - Bob Chick done with bb.com

[jtsunami]

You have to wonder about these supplement companies who are desperate to get authenticity and use bodybuilders who have never tried their products. What does that tell you? It confirms what I have always believed: supplements are mostly a waste of money. I say mostly because it depends on what your goals are. If you use a weight gain supplement then that is sensible. If you think you need more protein, etc., you probably don't know much about nutrition.

good post, all truth, really a shame younger kids, high school, middle school throw so much of their money away on crap like this.  Mowing the lawn probably, doing tons of hard labor just to get their fix of no explode or some other snake oil, it is just sad.

LOL @ smanjh claim it is the customer's responsibility to research the claims?  ReallY!!  Are u fucking kidding me?  When you go into a car dealership and they claim 30 mpg on the new car you looking at you take that as the truth right?  Same with supplements dude, they should be held accountable.

[Vince B]

How are we to know what to eat to maintain health and grow? We haven't been killed by what we ate at home so that is the default nutrition program. If you do research into nutrition where do you go for the best information? Do you visit an health food store or a supplement store and talk to staff there? The bottom line is quite simple. If you don't know much about nutrition then how would you know if you need supplements or not? Without knowledge you won't know good advice from nonsense. You would hope that staff at gyms would steer you in the right direction. However, they make money selling supplements so you can't depend on them for accurate information. If you take too many supplements you usually don't harm yourself. Extra protein is converted by the liver into energy. An expensive way to obtain energy and taxing on the liver.

I recommend finding a thick nutrition textbook in a university book store. No, not thick like Bob Chick, but an authoritative treatise on human nutrition. These volumes are usually about 3 inches thick and each chapter ends with several pages of bibliography. That is how you know you have a publication used by graduate students in nutrition. Read what they have to say about protein requirement and exercise. You will be surprised. Muscle magazines and most popular books about diets are not the source for the best information. That really is a pity. However, when you read the magazines you will see that there are endless pages of ads by supplement companies. The editors can't print articles bagging supplements because they wouldn't exist without these advertisers.

I am giving you honest and responsible advice. Are you going to be naive and buy products because Bob C is a spokesman for a company that he knows virtually nothing about the products they sell. That means, obviously, that he has never used them. Conclusion: this is a scam. He has no authority to recommend those products. Why the owners of that company think they need a stooge like that perplexes me. They got the right guy, though, because he has a reputation of repeating whatever is required. Integrity goes out the door as long as he pays his bills.

[OneManGang]

How are we to know what to eat to maintain health and grow? We haven't been killed by what we ate at home so that is the default nutrition program. If you do research into nutrition where do you go for the best information? Do you visit an health food store or a supplement store and talk to staff there? The bottom line is quite simple. If you don't know much about nutrition then how would you know if you need supplements or not? Without knowledge you won't know good advice from nonsense. You would hope that staff at gyms would steer you in the right direction. However, they make money selling supplements so you can't depend on them for accurate information. If you take too many supplements you usually don't harm yourself. Extra protein is converted by the liver into energy. An expensive way to obtain energy and taxing on the liver.

I recommend finding a thick nutrition textbook in a university book store. No, not thick like Bob Chick, but an authoritative treatise on human nutrition. These volumes are usually about 3 inches thick and each chapter ends with several pages of bibliography. That is how you know you have a publication used by graduate students in nutrition. Read what they have to say about protein requirement and exercise. You will be surprised. Muscle magazines and most popular books about diets are not the source for the best information. That really is a pity. However, when you read the magazines you will see that there are endless pages of ads by supplement companies. The editors can't print articles bagging supplements because they wouldn't exist without these advertisers.

I am giving you honest and responsible advice. Are you going to be naive and buy products because Bob C is a spokesman for a company that he knows virtually nothing about the products they sell. That means, obviously, that he has never used them. Conclusion: this is a scam. He has no authority to recommend those products. Why the owners of that company think they need a stooge like that perplexes me. They got the right guy, though, because he has a reputation of repeating whatever is required. Integrity goes out the door as long as he pays his bills.

In Bob's world money justifies everything..

[noworries]

good post, all truth, really a shame younger kids, high school, middle school throw so much of their money away on crap like this.  Mowing the lawn probably, doing tons of hard labor just to get their fix of no explode or some other snake oil, it is just sad.

LOL @ smanjh claim it is the customer's responsibility to research the claims?  ReallY!!  Are u fucking kidding me?  When you go into a car dealership and they claim 30 mpg on the new car you looking at you take that as the truth right?  Same with supplements dude, they should be held accountable.

Yes but on the cars everything is regulated so you take what they say as truth.  They don't do that with supplements.  You can say almost anything.  Take a look at the Muscletech bullshit ads.

[Smanjh]

Yes but on the cars everything is regulated so you take what they say as truth.  They don't do that with supplements.  You can say almost anything.  Take a look at the Muscletech bullshit ads.

Exactly. Look, even if they legalized testosterone cyp or something and Chick really did swear by it, it would still be a false advertisement to sell it and use his image because guess what? Most people do not have his genetics and experience, thus they could take all the test in the world and not look like him. It would be more honest because he would be telling you the exact truth, but realistically people would be crying bullshit because they do not put a genetic disclaimer on there.

The consumer has a responsibility to do their own shopping, and this does require research. When a car says "best in it's class', is it the company's fault that the customer misunderstands the term class for meaning every vehicle with 4 wheels?

With supplements, the formulators, even Muscletech try to come up with the best way to use stuff. Hydroxycut, even now, is better than using nothing at all. However it is not 6000% better, yet it may be in one form of the study.

That is why you need to research it just like you would anything else. Go to the grocery store. Every food is the best in it's class per the advertising. However that is opinion based.

I do agree that it is misleading for a newb to see someone like Bob advertising the product because they will think steroids are illegal and no one but cheaters use them in any sport. However a quick google search would let them know about supplements.

[jtsunami]

Exactly. Look, even if they legalized testosterone cyp or something and Chick really did swear by it, it would still be a false advertisement to sell it and use his image because guess what? Most people do not have his genetics and experience, thus they could take all the test in the world and not look like him. It would be more honest because he would be telling you the exact truth, but realistically people would be crying bullshit because they do not put a genetic disclaimer on there.

The consumer has a responsibility to do their own shopping, and this does require research. When a car says "best in it's class', is it the company's fault that the customer misunderstands the term class for meaning every vehicle with 4 wheels?

With supplements, the formulators, even Muscletech try to come up with the best way to use stuff. Hydroxycut, even now, is better than using nothing at all. However it is not 6000% better, yet it may be in one form of the study.

That is why you need to research it just like you would anything else. Go to the grocery store. Every food is the best in it's class per the advertising. However that is opinion based.

I do agree that it is misleading for a newb to see someone like Bob advertising the product because they will think steroids are illegal and no one but cheaters use them in any sport. However a quick google search would let them know about supplements.

stop with the bullshit.  When you advertise some product is 5000x times more potent than testosterone or some other crazy claim, it is criminal and misleading.  Gov't needs to regulate these charlatans.  You know damn well food doesn't make claims it can't hold as they have labels and do not say they will make you do this or that.  Stop the bullshit.

[Smanjh]

stop with the bullshit.  When you advertise some product is 5000x times more potent than testosterone or some other crazy claim, it is criminal and misleading.  Gov't needs to regulate these charlatans.  You know damn well food doesn't make claims it can't hold as they have labels and do not say they will make you do this or that.  Stop the bullshit.

How many times will you buy that product if it doesn't work? Afterward, you go to Google in order to find some sort of explanation, then you find discussions and reviews. Something amazing happens; before you drop 50 bones on something else, you look it up and try to find real evidence of it working.

The scam companies won't be around forever. As bad as MuscleTech is, their products are somewhat decent. Nothing like the claims, but I guess you found that out after your first bottle of Cryotest.

[#1 Klaus fan]

How many times will you buy that product if it doesn't work? Afterward, you go to Google in order to find some sort of explanation, then you find discussions and reviews. Something amazing happens; before you drop 50 bones on something else, you look it up and try to find real evidence of it working.

The scam companies won't be around forever. As bad as MuscleTech is, their products are somewhat decent. Nothing like the claims, but I guess you found that out after your first bottle of Cryotest.

I bet many of these companies count on the new fools who are born every day to keep their businesses running.

[Vince B]

Sounds like most of the fellows here have tried supplements. Shows you that advertising works.

It is one thing to be associated with a product re advertising and quite another to endorse products. I think bodybuilders have a lot to answer for because of false claims.

We wouldn't expect a stellar individual like Bob C to compromise his integrity and endorse a supplement company unless he used their products and believed they were excellent.

[Topskin69]

Sounds like most of the fellows here have tried supplements. Shows you that advertising works.

It is one thing to be associated with a product re advertising and quite another to endorse products. I think bodybuilders have a lot to answer for because of false claims.

We wouldn't expect a stellar individual like Bob C to compromise his integrity and endorse a supplement company unless he used their products and believed they were excellent.

You all speak as if supplements have no value at all. They have value, but clearly they do not have the value of steroids. I think a better question to ask is "does this supplement have a good cost to benefit ratio?"

[Vince B]

The point is what should we eat and drink in order to be healthy and build muscle. Are supplements necessary? Answer: probably not. That doesn't stop people from believing they are beneficial. If you know enough about nutrition you probably won't use supplements, including vitamins. There are some studies showing some benefits but most of these were commissioned by supplement companies. Young guys who are trying to add size probably need more calories. So, whatever can be taken to increase calories will have some benefit. The idea that because muscles are composed of water and protein doesn't mean you should ingest heaps of protein. Drinking plenty of water is okay. Beliefs are difficult to correct or erase. That is why people attend graduate school in nutrition and learn there. You are unlikely to learn much of value from reading bodybuilding magazines re nutrition. This is a real pity but the magazines are dependent on supplement companies or are owned by them. You cannot expect them to tell the whole truth about supplements and bodybuilding. It has been a sham for decades now. You won't learn much on the internet if you frequent muscle forums. Most of these guys are already brainwashed and have long ago lost the capacity for independent thinking. Every forum has several resident experts so take your pick and good luck.

[Topskin69]

The point is what should we eat and drink in order to be healthy and build muscle. Are supplements necessary? Answer: probably not. That doesn't stop people from believing they are beneficial. If you know enough about nutrition you probably won't use supplements, including vitamins. There are some studies showing some benefits but most of these were commissioned by supplement companies. Young guys who are trying to add size probably need more calories. So, whatever can be taken to increase calories will have some benefit. The idea that because muscles are composed of water and protein doesn't mean you should ingest heaps of protein. Drinking plenty of water is okay. Beliefs are difficult to correct or erase. That is why people attend graduate school in nutrition and learn there. You are unlikely to learn much of value from reading bodybuilding magazines re nutrition. This is a real pity but the magazines are dependent on supplement companies or are owned by them. You cannot expect them to tell the whole truth about supplements and bodybuilding. It has been a sham for decades now. You won't learn much on the internet if you frequent muscle forums. Most of these guys are already brainwashed and have long ago lost the capacity for independent thinking. Every forum has several resident experts so take your pick and good luck.

This is partly true, and part nonsense. Reading bodybuilding mags can offer great insights to nutrition, if you have been reading them for a while, because the major ones, like MD and FLEX, put forth the latest sceintific studies on the subject. The key is to be pragmatic enough to shift through the information, and decide what is of value and what isn't.

To put it a different way, its important to not be dogmatic, and understand how your body reacts, when going over new information. 

[io856]

The point is what should we eat and drink in order to be healthy and build muscle. Are supplements necessary? Answer: probably not. That doesn't stop people from believing they are beneficial. If you know enough about nutrition you probably won't use supplements, including vitamins. There are some studies showing some benefits but most of these were commissioned by supplement companies. Young guys who are trying to add size probably need more calories. So, whatever can be taken to increase calories will have some benefit. The idea that because muscles are composed of water and protein doesn't mean you should ingest heaps of protein. Drinking plenty of water is okay. Beliefs are difficult to correct or erase. That is why people attend graduate school in nutrition and learn there. You are unlikely to learn much of value from reading bodybuilding magazines re nutrition. This is a real pity but the magazines are dependent on supplement companies or are owned by them. You cannot expect them to tell the whole truth about supplements and bodybuilding. It has been a sham for decades now. You won't learn much on the internet if you frequent muscle forums. Most of these guys are already brainwashed and have long ago lost the capacity for independent thinking. Every forum has several resident experts so take your pick and good luck.

The reality is you would prefer to believe this even in the presence of science suggesting high protein consumption is beneficial for increasing muscle mass. Much the same your love affair with machines v free weights. What would we expect from a man who dedicated a large part of his life to engineering and creating resistance training machines?

[Smanjh]

The point is what should we eat and drink in order to be healthy and build muscle. Are supplements necessary? Answer: probably not. That doesn't stop people from believing they are beneficial. If you know enough about nutrition you probably won't use supplements, including vitamins. There are some studies showing some benefits but most of these were commissioned by supplement companies. Young guys who are trying to add size probably need more calories. So, whatever can be taken to increase calories will have some benefit. The idea that because muscles are composed of water and protein doesn't mean you should ingest heaps of protein. Drinking plenty of water is okay. Beliefs are difficult to correct or erase. That is why people attend graduate school in nutrition and learn there. You are unlikely to learn much of value from reading bodybuilding magazines re nutrition. This is a real pity but the magazines are dependent on supplement companies or are owned by them. You cannot expect them to tell the whole truth about supplements and bodybuilding. It has been a sham for decades now. You won't learn much on the internet if you frequent muscle forums. Most of these guys are already brainwashed and have long ago lost the capacity for independent thinking. Every forum has several resident experts so take your pick and good luck.

Your right on a lot of things, and misguided on a few others.

I agree that protein needs are certainly not what they claim, but you do need a gram per kilogram for the best results. Is it easily obtained? Yes it is, however you can get pure protein through powder where as you are tied to the extra fat calories in meat or the carbs in bread and milk. This is when a shake or 2 becomes beneficial.

There are several herbs out today and other ingredients that really help. Use Gaspari's products and tell me you do not see a difference. If nothing else, their stuff makes you feel better, which translates to better results if the training and diet are in tact.

You wanna know why bodybuilders either have piss poor results or up their hormone use continuously? The sole problem is that they all follow and push a linear training program while ignoring the universally accepted 2 factor theory seen in periodized programs. If guys just took a week out of every 4 to deload properly, you would see better results.

[Smanjh]

This is partly true, and part nonsense. Reading bodybuilding mags can offer great insights to nutrition, if you have been reading them for a while, because the major ones, like MD and FLEX, put forth the latest sceintific studies on the subject. The key is to be pragmatic enough to shift through the information, and decide what is of value and what isn't.

To put it a different way, its important to not be dogmatic, and understand how your body reacts, when going over new information. 

Exactly. There are only a few factors in this:

With your individual genetics in mind;

How much training stress is optimal (training load)
How much frequency is optimal (days per week)
Progressive overload
Dealing with systematic fatigue via deloading
Diet (optimal nutrient amounts and correct calories based on your goal)
Supplement use to enhance all of the above
Steroid use (if desired)

The last 2 do not counteract the first 5, no shit. No drug or supplement will counteract bad training and incorrect eating. However the typical BBing mag is blind to proper training and blind to nutritional fact. MD is better than Flex on the matter though.

[Vince B]

The experts have arrived with nothing new to tell us. They are true believers like religious fanatics. In such an atmosphere even a philosopher of science is doomed.

[Topskin69]

The experts have arrived with nothing new to tell us. They are true believers like religious fanatics. In such an atmosphere even a philospher of science is doomed.

You are being absurd. I also have a background in philosophy, and you are not acting in a way that is conducive to a philosophers mindset, if you did, would welcome good debate, over the merits of your ideas.

Instead you simply want us to nod our heads and pat you on the back for whatever nonsense you might have to say.

[Vince B]

Oh, yes, I must give credit to MD with all those scientific articles. I no longer read most of those magazines yet I collected them all for over 40 years. That isn't science but editorial interpretations for muscleheads.

There is no debate needed in this thread to determine that Bob C is endorsing products he recently read about. That isn't what the guys who read magazines and see labels will think. They will presume that those products are okay because Bob C, pro athletes rep, said so.

There is no philosopher's mindset. Of all things that surely doesn't exist. There is a method that philosophers of science utilize to separate science from pseudo science. The point is such a person would gain no purchase on these forums. People here have similar beliefs and those are accepted as facts by most. In such a climate, debate and discussion are fruitless as is now being demonstrated by yourself and others.

[Topskin69]

Oh, yes, I must give credit to MD with all those scientific articles. I no longer read most of those magazines yet I collected them all for over 40 years. That isn't science but editorial interpretations for muscleheads.

There is no debate needed in this thread to determine that Bob C is endorsing products he recently read about. That isn't what the guys who read magazines and see labels will think. They will presume that those products are okay because Bob C, pro athletes rep, said so.

There is no philosopher's mindset. Of all things that surely doesn't exist. There is a method that philosophers of science utilize to separate science from pseudo science. The point is such a person would gain no purchase on these forums. People here have similar beliefs and those are accepted as facts by most. In such a climate, debate and discussion are fruitless as is now being demonstrated by yourself and others.

A "philosophers mindset" is a romantic way of stating that a Philosopher is more interested in the concept of the "Truth," (regardless of how nebulous that term may or may not be), rather then simply being right.

Argument is engaged to test the validity of their ideas, and hold them up to scrutiny, in an effort to test and refine their ideologies, and systemizations. You seem to express little interest in actually presenting your ideas in a rational, cohesive, or systematic manner, but would rather be lazy and simply pawn everyone on this site off as lazy flotsam not worthy of your time or, efforts.

My advice is... Cut the bullshit, and post your theories with some lucidity, and structure, and allow us to analyze them, or get off your pedestal.

As for the MD columns, of course there is some editorial bias to some of it, as with just about any presentation, regardless of media. However they are taken from real medial abstracts, and studies, so it is up to the reader to exercise a pragmatic mindset, and decide what is of value, and what isn't.

No one is suggesting to just swallow all the things that BB has taught us over the last several decades. You are being incredibly condescending if you just tell us that anyone that believes that there is some merit to the information contained within this subculture is a fanatical moron, is simply someone that is either not being rational, or has an ax to grind, so which is it?

[Vince B]

This is no place for a seminar in philosophy discussion. Some are capable of that process but it is wasted in this setting. I have no obligation to maintain that standard among the flotsam and unwashed anonymous villians here. I use my own name so it isn't a level field discussing matters with some Topskin69 dude. I have no idea what you believe, your education or background. You have chosen to remain anonymous so don't deserve to be treated as an expert unless and until that has been established.

You have no problem making value judgements about the worth or otherwise of others so you obviously have an agenda other than seeking the truth as you call it. When you show respect it might be returned to you.

The bodybuilding magazines as a whole are not what I would call a periodical for gym owners and professional bodybuilders. There are no journals for these people which is a pity. The magazines cater to young people who might buy supplements.

[Topskin69]

This is no place for a seminar in philosophy discussion. Some are capable of that process but it is wasted in this setting. I have no obligation to maintain that standard among the flotsam and unwashed anonymous villians here. I use my own name so it isn't a level field discussing matters with some Topskin69 dude. I have no idea what you believe, your education or background. You have chosen to remain anonymous so don't deserve to be treated as an expert unless and until that has been established.

You have no problem making value judgements about the worth or otherwise of others so you obviously have an agenda other than seeking the truth as you call it. When you show respect it might be returned to you.

The bodybuilding magazines as a whole are not what I would call a periodical for gym owners and professional bodybuilders. There are no journals for these people which is a pity. The magazines cater to young people who might buy supplements.

I am not exactly anonymous as I have posted my picture, and given some uncomplimentary tidbits of my life. Though granted I do not post with my real name.

I had to laugh when you mention agenda... I have taken Bob Chick to task MANY times over some of the dumb things he has said, and deservedly so, however this doesn't blind me to being objective, and realizing that you are being absurd with your attitude.

My education, real name, sexual preferences, or taste in pale ales, should have no bearing whatsoever on a discussion like this. Either your arguments have merit or they don't. My posts should be judged on the merit of what I have to say, and in the logic, and testable validity therein.

Nothing I say is intended to be taken as a personal judgment or attack against you. I am merely being assertive, by pointing your inane tendency to cry on the rooftops, and yet when someone will take the time to listen to what you have to say, you simply refuse, take your ball and go elsewhere.

M!

[Vince B]

Most thread end up with everyone bashing each other. Same thing is happening here but disguised as a serious discussion.

Concentrate on the topic and not the individuals in it and you will be fine. Using your vocabulary suggests you are educated. A disclosure of your degree and where you obtained it, your age and your occupation should suffice re personal information. Your experience in bodybuilding would help as well.

You are not merely being assertive but extremely judgemental not only of hapless stooge, Bob Chick, but myself and others. What gives you the authority to question my integrity and standing? Nothing. Hope this helps.

[Smanjh]

Concentrate on the topic .

Vince, I am personally not trying to be insulting to anyone, not my style man. I am really trying to concentrate on the topic.

Speaking of which, have you tried any supplements outside of weight gainers?

NO supplements are awesome when used with creatine supplements. Cellmass is great if you do not respond to regular creatine monohydrate. I took the NO Explode/Cell Mass combo, changed nothing with diet and my workout, and it made me look much fuller and harder. I was already very lean at the time, but this stuff put me over the top.

There are also very cool herbs with clinical research behind them. I know, the subject of 'clinical research' is debatable, but this Divanil stuff found in TestoPro from Anabolic Innovations combined with the Resvaratrol in their Stoked product makes an incredible combo. You will be horny like never before and perform better sexually, lol. It also translates to the gym as well.

None of it replaces steroids, but they have things now that actually do something. For 60 bucks a month, the Stoked/TestoPro combo is really good. It isn't good if you have access to test or anything, but as far as natural stuff goes it is really cool.

For the record, I have found better alternatives for BSN products that I like better, but I do like BSN and certainly wouldn't turn it down.

Is there anything you guys actually like? Too much energy is spent looking at the bad and not at the good.

[Mr.1derful]

This is no place for a seminar in philosophy discussion. Some are capable of that process but it is wasted in this setting. I have no obligation to maintain that standard among the flotsam and unwashed anonymous villians here. I use my own name so it isn't a level field discussing matters with some Topskin69 dude. I have no idea what you believe, your education or background. You have chosen to remain anonymous so don't deserve to be treated as an expert unless and until that has been established.

You have no problem making value judgements about the worth or otherwise of others so you obviously have an agenda other than seeking the truth as you call it. When you show respect it might be returned to you.

The bodybuilding magazines as a whole are not what I would call a periodical for gym owners and professional bodybuilders. There are no journals for these people which is a pity. The magazines cater to young people who might buy supplements.

You type a lot, but say very little.

[Vince B]

We had a company in Sydney selling RNA products about 40 years ago. They had a PhD researcher associated with them. I wanted to know how that product was going to be used by the body because it first had to survive the acids in the stomach. The claims were not supported and eventually it was taken off the market. Joe Weider products did not live up to claims on their labels so were removed and Joe was fined. He had no research clinic and his claims were preposterous. When his labels were accurate they were allowed back into Australia.

There has been research that supports supplements such as creatine but my main point is that the protein requirement is exaggerated and too many buy unnecessary products.

One truth about bodybuilding is that natural bodybuilders have trouble sustaining growth. The vast majority are growing slowly or not at all. When this occurs they look for solutions and many believe they need supplements. That is not true because most bodybuilders eat more food than an average person and probably better quality food. So they get all of their nutrients from what they eat and do not have to supplement their diets with pills and powders.

I accept that there isn't much nutrition research done on advanced bodybuilders. In the vacuum appear all manner of claims re nutrition and I dismiss most as hogwash. The supplement companies are spending millions of dollars miseducating young men so they buy their products. The professionals know this. Gym owners know this. Doctors know this. Scientists know this. The flotsam on Getbig should be sceptical but many are fooled and are oblivious to the truth.