It's my sperm & my child. Why don't I get a choice?
Ive never understood this. Glad I dont have children yet. If a woman aborted my child and I knew about. Shed have some big big problems.
Ill never understand why liberals are so pro choice what a bunch of freaken loonies.
Oh really? ???
Yes, really. Quote it, write it down. take a picture, I dont give a fuck.
I believe in pro choice, blah blah blah.
Sure you do you child killing whore.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cCpRqDVfmzg/U7eRR7QT9NI/AAAAAAAABtk/gmotVv19SZY/w960-h762-no/Look%252Bat%252Bher%252BCHOICE.jpg)
how do you know she didn't look at it?
You're aware that a camera captions a fraction of a second....right?
::)well I'm glad I could help you learn how a camera works
I believe in pro choice, blah blah blah.
Sure you do you child killing whore.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cCpRqDVfmzg/U7eRR7QT9NI/AAAAAAAABtk/gmotVv19SZY/w960-h762-no/Look%252Bat%252Bher%252BCHOICE.jpg)
Given how most people who oppose abortion don't actually give a shit once the fetus is a living breathing fully formed human being it's hard to take their objections to abortion seriously
I like sucking cock and having my ass reamed
Republicans want little government intervention, yet they want to try to tell you what you should do with their body lol.
It's funny too that these anti abortion hypocrites are in favor of the death penalty/capital punishment.Your father in hell loves you. Keep up the good work :D
Oh really? ???
It's my sperm & my child. Why don't I get a choice?
Fuck off and die maggot :D
Do you believe a word you write?
It's hard to take you seriously.
Spoken like a true virgin troll who's terrified and intimidated by women.
Sucks to suck
Well it is her body..and her choice.
Yes, really. Quote it, write it down. take a picture, I dont give a fuck.
Republicans want little government intervention, yet they want to try to tell you what you should do with their body lol.
I like it in the butt
:D
^^
All lack of arguments..
You can do whatever you like. But if you kill a baby you are scum. Is that too hard for you to understand?
Is abortion ever acceptable?
Is child murder ever acceptable?
Is child murder ever acceptable?
no is talking about murdering a child
Oh rly ::)
Just the same old crap from anti-choice. Their argument is usually of a religious nature.
I am a man of little faith, but some people lead me to believe there might be an everlasting hell.
that's your problem
or yours :D
Is child murder ever acceptable?
child
tʃʌɪld/Submit
noun
a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.
nice dodge, try again, is abortion ever acceptable?
unless you're going to start acting like a terrorist or something and then I guess your fucked up belief would become my problem
Is killing an unborn baby ever acceptable?
Is killing an unborn baby ever acceptable?
So we can conclude that you're unable to answer a question yourself...
Yes, now, rather than avoiding the answer yourself try and commit.
What do you think?
Well let's just say there are some people I would not care too much if they were killed. But for a woman to kill an unborn baby is still evil.Evil , but do you agree its acceptable or not.
You can concluide that if you try to ask questions you may get asked a question in return :D
Grow up, respect her free choice.
Good point
It's funny too that these anti abortion hypocrites are in favor of the death penalty/capital punishment.
It has nothing to do with "growing up". Its murder plain and simple. You and others that condone it will reap what you sew. 53 000,000 babies aborted In America since the inception of Planned Parenthood. God bless America. It deserves everything coming its way for this and other atrocities. Too bad you cant see it. You need to "grow up".
No it isnt, you have no idea what "murder" is if you believe that.
All these so called anti-abortionists would be the first in line to get an abortion if their daughter or wife were raped and impregnated.
It has nothing to do with "growing up". Its murder plain and simple. You and others that condone it will reap what you sew. 53 000,000 babies aborted In America since the inception of Planned Parenthood. God bless America. It deserves everything coming its way for this and other atrocities. Too bad you cant see it. You need to "grow up".
An exception should be made for rape incest or strong possibility of complications. Using it as a form of birth control is a problem. Plenty of people looking to adopt.
A fetus is a living organism. Sucking the brains out of it is killing that organism. That's murder.No it isnt.
But its still murder. Youre still killing an innocent baby that had nothing to do with the rape or incest. In the bible it NOWHERE indicates that there are exceptions to abortion. So youre just making up your own rules as you go along. Got it!
Unwanted children.
An exception should be made for rape incest or strong possibility of complications. Using it as a form of birth control is a problem. Plenty of people looking to adopt.So its OK as long as its on your terms?
It just makes sense not making up my own rules.It makes sense to you, having an abortion as a form of birth control makes sense to other people?
So its OK as long as its on your terms?
But its still murder. Youre still killing an innocent baby that had nothing to do with the rape or incest. In the bible it NOWHERE indicates that there are exceptions to abortion. So youre just making up your own rules as you go along. Got it!
Yes because it makes the most sense. That's how laws are made. It's logical.Laws are bills past through parliament or Congress.
Some of you guys are real clowns.Because its lawful and its their choice.
Bringing up the extreme examples, when most women who abort abort for convenience.
Some of you guys are real clowns.
Bringing up the extreme examples, when most women who abort abort for convenience.
Why would you care about their motivation?
Same reason you care about mine?
agenda21NWO are you pro or anti government?
Oh yeah, and the other great bs that if a child is unloved it was better to kill it.
AS if that child should be denied the chance to FIND LOVE IN LIFE.
Such abhorent minds.
Same reason you care about mine?
It just makes sense not making up my own rules.
neither extreme - we need govt but we need accountable govtSo you want a government that just makes laws you agree with?
I would 'care' if you had solid arguments, but you're rather a dumb religious nut.
Who does it make sense to? You? So you're the judge and juror of what makes sense and what doesn't?This is why they are easy to undo, they all have the same mindset ;D
So you want a government that just makes laws you agree with?
I would 'care' if you had solid arguments, but you're rather a dumb religious nut.attack the argument not the arguer.
This is why they are easy to undo, they all have the same mindset ;D
When did I once bring up laws? You are off on some of your own tangents there....Without laws how are you going to stop abortion?
ok mr stereotyperattack the argument not the arguer.
Oh yeah, and the other great bs that if a child is unloved it was better to kill it.---
AS if that child should be denied the chance to FIND LOVE IN LIFE.
Such abhorent minds.
---
attack the argument not the arguer.
Without laws how are you going to stop abortion?
But I'm still waiting for an argument.His argument is that he thinks abortion is wrong.
His argument is that he thinks abortion is wrong.
when did I mention trying to stop it?
Please stop ass-uming
I would rather define that as a statement.Yep, agreed.
So you dont want to stop abortion?
another good point to raise is why do women have choice
I don't know how some of you so called alpha males could possibly share the same views as feminist do.
Because they are not alpha males. Far far from it.
They're on the side of evil.
Is abortion ever acceptable?
Scratch the surface on these types and you will find some very ugly stuff under there. They are NOT good people.
I think you find the highest frequency of harmful perversion among conservatives. Repression and taboos are harmful- it makes perversion very potent.
NN
You are full of crap. WE are talking about killing babies, often up to a very late stage of development. What are YOU talking about ::)
So you dont want to stop abortion?
You are full of crap. WE are talking about killing babies, often up to a very late stage of development. What are YOU talking about ::)
At what point is it a baby and not an embryo?
At what stage of the pregnancy is it unacceptable to terminate?
Most people who accept abortion would say the absolute limit should be when the foetus can survive outside the womb. This is of course a moving target.It wasn't aimed at someone who would give a sensible well rounded reply.
There is no absolute answer to this. There are several different answers depending on what kind of premises you follow.
NN
you have the freedom to choose to not get an abortion for whatever reason that you like
Oh yeah, and the other great bs that if a child is unloved it was better to kill it.
AS if that child should be denied the chance to FIND LOVE IN LIFE.
Such abhorent minds.
In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (Latin, "Human Life"), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence.
Contraception is "any action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act [sexual intercourse], or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" (Humanae Vitae 14). This includes sterilization, condoms and other barrier methods, spermicides, coitus interruptus (withdrawal method), the Pill, and all other such methods.
Contraception is wrong because it’s a deliberate violation of the design God built into the human race, often referred to as "natural law." The natural law purpose of sex is procreation. The pleasure that sexual intercourse provides is an additional blessing from God, intended to offer the possibility of new life while strengthening the bond of intimacy, respect, and love between husband and wife. The loving environment this bond creates is the perfect setting for nurturing children.
But sexual pleasure within marriage becomes unnatural, and even harmful to the spouses, when it is used in a way that deliberately excludes the basic purpose of sex, which is procreation. God’s gift of the sex act, along with its pleasure and intimacy, must not be abused by deliberately frustrating its natural end—procreation.
Should be mandatory for a good percentage of the population.
Suleman aka 'Octomom' is charged with welfare fraud
Father arrested after daughter dies in hot car
Police press murder case in Ga. toddler's hot-car death
Christian Longo became wanted in the murder of his wife and children in Oregon after the body of his four-year-old son was found on December 19, 2001 floating several feet from shore in the Lint Slough, a waterway off the Pacific Ocean, in Waldport, Oregon. Divers searching the same area where his son's body had been earlier found also located the body of his three-year-old sister on December 22, 2001. The bodies of the children's mother and two-year-old sister were found five days later.
CPS taking custody of baby found in apartment trashThis baby got lucky because someone found it before it died.
TOLEDO -- A Toledo man has admitted to his role in the death of his newborn baby.This baby wasn't so lucky.
The infant boy's body was found in a freezer, by a landlord, at an East Toledo rental home on Paine Street last April.
On Monday, Antonio Cervantes pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter, tampering with evidence, abuse of a corpse and endangering children.
The coroner said the newborn boy had been strangled and dunked in water and the child lived no more than two days.
The child's mother, Kenesha Pruitt was convicted last month for the child's death and sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 20 years.
Cervantes will be sentenced April 23rd.
France shocked by yet another case of dead babies found in freezersNor were these babies.
French woman has admitted to drowning her two new-born babies, whose bodies were found in her freezer. The 32-year-old waitress, identified by the authorities only as Madame C, “declared that she killed her two babies, who she says were born alive,” said public prosecutors.
Last Wednesday, Luke Batty, 11, went to cricket practice after school where his own father turned up and beat him to death with his bat. Terrified onlookers included his team-mates, their parents, and his mother Rose. The horrible murder happened in the Melbourne suburb of Tyabb on the Mornington Peninsula.Some babies actually make it to childhood before their parents brutally murder them.
Read more at http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/boy-beaten-to-death-by-his-own-father-after-cricket-training-video/#M2QFQlcG8eCx5urT.99
Torture, Child Abuse Among Charges In Beating Of 6-Month-OldSome are murdered before they reach childhood....maybe they are the lucky ones because they didn't suffer quite as long.
April 29, 2014 4:55 PM
Yes, really. Quote it, write it down. take a picture, I dont give a fuck.8) 8)
They want to "cherry pick." They want abortion to not be okay when it goes against their morals and values, and for it to be okay when it aligns with their morals and values. Not really an objective way of looking at the issue.
When an unwanted baby dies as a result of child abuse, when did it have the opportunity to find love in life? When a woman has a baby she didn't want and throws it into a dumpster where it dies awash in a pile of stinking garbage, at what point did this baby have a chance to find love in life?
We should abort a good percentage of the adult population as well.
Yes, starting with old girls like primemuscle. They are just drains on societies precious resources.
Primemuscle you disgusting old piece of shit. You mock religious views on family but think YOU can play god when it comes to KILLING/MURDERING. What a deluded hypocrytical old toobag you are.
Of course you can find bad examples of child abuse- so how do you define the likely perps? Should we abort all babies to stop the risk of it happening ::)
What a ridiculous generalization. Most aborted babies would of had a CHANCE at life were they not killed.No more ridiculous than saying abortion is evil.
What a ridiculous generalization. Most aborted babies would of had a CHANCE at life were they not killed.
Your original post to which I responded read, "AS if that child should be denied the chance to FIND LOVE IN LIFE." This statement is vastly different than the one above where you merely state, "Most aborted babies would of had a CHANCE at life were they not killed." These two statements have very different meanings. And further, I will correct your latter post to more accurately read, All aborted babies would of had a chance at life were they not killed (aborted).
The facts demonstrate that sometimes when babies are unwanted, they are subjected to horrific lives, very often devoid of any nurturing or love and much worse, hatefully abused with physical and mental torture, which sometimes results in the innocent baby's death. Just to be clear, I am allowing that this doesn't always happen. Many babies get lucky because regardless that their parent or parents did not want them, they will love them and nurture them once they are born and they go on to have good lives. But when things go wrong, it is heartbreaking to even imagine even one innocent baby suffering because they were unwanted and remained so though out their sometimes very short lives.
You will note, that I have responded to you a few times now without resorting to calling you derogatory names or posting untrue and unpleasant remarks about your character. I gather that you are not in good control of your emotions, at least with regards to this subject matter.
What a ridiculous generalization. Most aborted babies would of had a CHANCE at life were they not killed.
You mock religious views on family but think YOU can play god when it comes to KILLING/MURDERING.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cCpRqDVfmzg/U7eRR7QT9NI/AAAAAAAABtk/gmotVv19SZY/w960-h762-no/Look%252Bat%252Bher%252BCHOICE.jpg)
Agenda21fag wants it to be his choice
Just curious: according to you, is it okay to create life where nature (or God) failed? So, is IVF okay?
I have no strong opinion on IVF.
Why not? Surely you have thought this over before...
If abortion is evil, would that make IVF just as evil (playing God), or good (creating life instead of ending life)?
???
Why would I have thought this over?So this wasn't yet covered by Alex Jones?
Why would I have thought this over?
And how can you compare the assisted creation of life (ivf) to killing a life (abortion)?
If you're gonna correct it, why not change "of" to "have" as well?
It's funny too that these anti abortion hypocrites are in favor of the death penalty/capital punishment.
I have mixed emotions on abortion. But at the end of the day it may be the best or only option for some situations, and should therefore be up to the individual and not the government IMO. I just don't think it's something to brag about or celebrate if one chooses to do such a thing.
But I've never understood comparing abortion to the death penalty. I am 100% in favor of the death penalty as punishment for certain crimes committed by adults. As long as they were tried and convicted by a jury of their peers, I'm all for it for certain crimes. In fact I believe the excessive appeals process should be trimmed down considerably to make the process quicker and less expensive.
And if you want to take the government out of it and let it be a matter handled privately, I'm sure family members of many victims of capital crimes would gladly assume the role of executioner instead of letting the state do it.
Guys like John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, Tookie Williams, and many others have shown themselves to be inhuman monsters incapable of remorse, empathy, rehabilitation, or redemption. They've actually EARNED such a fate.
Shouldn't these animals be euthanized?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom)
You've provided some excellent examples of people who did not deserve to go on living, regardless of whether they were locked up or not. Unfortunately on rare occasion, an innocent person is convicted of a capital crime. There are innocent people who've been executed. I'm against the death penalty.If one innocent person is put to death then its one too many, thats why Im not comfortable with the death penalty.
As for abortion, it strikes me as ironic that so many men have such strong opinions regarding it. Men cannot get pregnant. With respect to this, they cannot fully understand all the ramifications of what for many is probably the most difficult decision a woman could ever make.
On a personal level, my wife and I wanted both our children. Abortion was the farthest thing from our minds. My wife had an easy time with pregnancy, the fetuses were healthy and the births went relatively well. Our babies were healthy and grew to be healthy adults. If I were young, I'd do it all again and I suspect my wife would too. Having said this, we didn't have much financial stability when either of our two children were born, but we managed and it all turned out well in the end.
If folks are using abortion as a rather inconvenient form of contraception, then shame on them. I posted information about the Catholic church's doctrine on contraception. Fortunately, many priests take a different stance with their parishioners when it comes to birth control. I know people who chose to not have children for various reasons. I see nothing wrong with this decision as long as it is thoughtfully made and not just something someone choses as a matter of convenience. Raising children is serious business. It is at minimum an 18 year commitment. Almost anyone can pop out babies, being a good parent is a bit more of a task and a huge commitment. I've seen what sometimes happens when people don't live up to that commitment and it is often very sad.
It's funny too that these anti abortion hypocrites are in favor of the death penalty/capital punishment.
Doesnt seem to make sense but somhow they are anle to rationalize it
Yes it is very ironic.
Doesnt seem to make sense but somhow they are anle to rationalize it
Actually, it makes sense if you accept the premises they follow.
The conservatives believe that all human behavior and all moral is best understood as a process called "free will". Thus, if a person behaves badly and kills another human being, this is a voluntary, free will caused action that renders the perpetrator fully responsible for his action. Thus, the person is morally 100% to blame and hence does not deserve to live.
The fetus on the other hand, has done no wrong and deserves to live. Add to this the propensity for conservatives to give the embryo the same status as a living, born child, and you can follow their thinking.
This is of course an oversimplification :-). but I think it covers some of the important factors.
NN
Indeed, why would you have thought... ::)Are you serious? You must have a messed up moral radar.
So when you're talking about IVF, it's assisting creating. And abortion is killing, not assisting ending... hmmm...
Come on, you can do better than just blurting that killing is bad.
I believe in pro choice, blah blah blah.
Sure you do you child killing whore.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cCpRqDVfmzg/U7eRR7QT9NI/AAAAAAAABtk/gmotVv19SZY/w960-h762-no/Look%252Bat%252Bher%252BCHOICE.jpg)
how do you know she didn't look at it?
You're aware that a camera captions a fraction of a second....right?
A fetus is a living organism. Sucking the brains out of it is killing that organism. That's murder.
sperm is a living organism. If that is your argument, men kill millions of babies every day in the shower.
sperm is a living organism. If that is your argument, men kill millions of babies every day in the shower.
No kidding. life is arbitrary, I dont see how that fetus is living if it cannot live on it's own, it's like calling a virus living (some do). However, without a definition of life jacking off is murder. It can do as much as a zygote with respect to functioning on it's own, it's not alive.
Not to mention the best abortion doctor is in fact JC as he has caused more miscarriges then all abortions combined. God makes a mistake drowns the whole world, including the plants( like WTF?) and wildlife.
People arguing for and against abortion disagree as to when the soul enters the fetus. Obviously, some folks say it is at the point of conception. In contrast, others say this event is at birth.
sperm is a living organism. If that is your argument, men kill millions of babies every day in the shower.
In contrast, others still say soul schmoul.
People arguing for and against abortion disagree as to when the soul enters the fetus. Obviously, some folks say it is at the point of conception. In contrast, others say this event is at birth.
Wait a minute, this is a false dichotomy, what about the others who think the soul enters the body through the anus chakra? it's life when it meets the criteria for life, a plant is more alive then a zygote by all criteria, self suficient, fully formed, none dependent, reproduces etc.
Are you talking about anal sex?
Are you talking about anal sex?He's implying Tbombz has gathered more souls than Jesus.
People arguing for and against abortion disagree as to when the soul enters the fetus. Obviously, some folks say it is at the point of conception. In contrast, others say this event is at birth.
No he doesn't. He's not the one who is pregnant and has to deal with all the health issues of pregnancy (up to and including potentially dying).
These pregnant women are falling off the perch left & right.
so we're in agreement then
the woman has no right to make any claim or control over the mans body and vice versa
Is childbirth still killing women these days?
In 2013, 289 000 women died from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth. In addition, for every woman who dies in childbirth, around 20 more suffer injury, infection or disease – approximately 10 million women each year.
America, I mean. Are these national stats?
So it would follow that if someone uses their free will to abort a fetus, they should be executed for their crime. People play God's role, is what it seems like to me.
That's ridiculous. You're really reaching now. You made a fair point pointing out that an innocent person has been wrongly executed on occasion. You should have stopped there.
My point is that abortions and the death penalty really don't have anything to do with one another.
If we all at least can agree that we're a human life at birth, you have rights from that point forward. No one has the right to kill you from there. Anyone who would willingly kill a newborn baby / infant / toddler, child, or adult for any reason other than self-defense would be a criminal who should at least be locked up doing hard time for the rest of their days. And in many circumstances, such a criminal should be put to death IMO. This has nothing to do with the issue of abortion.
Wait so you are in fact confirming that a fetus is not a newborn and thus not living as you define it? so killing fetuses abortion is fine by deduction.
Is childbirth still killing women these days?
Republicans want little government intervention, yet they want to try to tell you what you should do with their body lol.
Agendafag seems like the sort of guy to be anti abortion until he knocks up some one lazy eyed whore while drunk and she starts calling him to start taking care of his illegitimate bastard.
It's hilarious that all these anti abortion nitwits are still protesting. 20-30% of the population of the world should've been aborted.Turn on the TV. Especially the welfare government aid bottom feeders. In Chicago it should be more.
bottom line is that men should be able to tell a woman to have an abortion if they do not want to raise the baby. if the woman still wants the baby the man should be able to sign away all liability towards it. I would say its only fair that the man pay 100% for the abortion procedure. if he argues with that, well he should have thought of that before he went ahead and fucked a girl without a condom without wanting to have a baby.
why not? If liberals have taught me anything about this issue they've taught me this:
FACT: abortion is not murder. its not a life.
FACT: abortion is safe.
FACT: abortion reduces crime.
FACT: there exists an unreal amount of negative statistics on kids with single parents and fatherless children.
FACT: women don't suffer negative psychological effects from having abortions.
these are all facts that are drilled into everyone's heads by the liberal posters every day on this issue.
so what's wrong with a man telling a woman to go have a medical procedure? yes its her body. she doesn't HAVE to get an abortion. but if she wants to keep the baby she has to pay for it herself.
someone come up with a counter argument to this that makes sense knowing what we know.
I would like to hear Anabolichalo's opinion on this topic.
wrong
women can't tell men what to do with their bodies and men can't tell woman what to do with their bodies
that's the way it works in the United States
Did I miss something, what are women telling men to do with their bodies? My wife has never....Wife? I thought you were gay. You said it yourself
bottom line is that men should be able to tell a woman to have an abortion if they do not want to raise the baby. if the woman still wants the baby the man should be able to sign away all liability towards it. I would say its only fair that the man pay 100% for the abortion procedure. if he argues with that, well he should have thought of that before he went ahead and fucked a girl without a condom without wanting to have a baby.
Did I miss something, what are women telling men to do with their bodies? My wife has never....
Wife? I thought you were gay. You said it yourself
There you go then...
The welfare system encourages multiple kids. Eliminate the "freebies for kids" programs and there won't be "welfare government aid bottom feeders" as you call them. So in short, the welfare system and abortion stance of liberals clash and the welfare system negates abortion.
the woman has no right to make any claim or control over the mans body and vice versa
There you go then...
The welfare system encourages multiple kids. Eliminate the "freebies for kids" programs and there won't be "welfare government aid bottom feeders" as you call them. So in short, the welfare system and abortion stance of liberals clash and the welfare system negates abortion.
wrong
women can't tell men what to do with their bodies and men can't tell woman what to do with their bodies
that's the way it works in the United States
You're being a little inconsistent here, guy. Should have say in abortion, but should pay everything. And then the whole condom thing. Kinda undermines whether he has say or not.
you didn't miss anything
just pointing out that it goes both ways
men don't get any say in what women do with their bodies and vice versa
this of course is obvious but apparently needed pointing out for the men on this board who think they should have some say over whether a woman should be able to get an abortion or not
Correct. Now we apply the same reasoning to wallets and we're in total agreement.
sure thing
how about this. If a woman get's pregnant and has a kid then both she and the father are financially responsible for the child
Since neither you, I or anyone other than those two are the parents they are the only ones who are responsible for financially supporting that child
agreed?
sure thing
how about this. If a woman get's pregnant and has a kid then both she and the father are financially responsible for the child
Since neither you, I or anyone other than those two are the parents they are the only ones who are responsible for financially supporting that child
agreed?
so the non usage of a condom is 100% his fault? not hers?
I would say its only fair that the man pay 100% for the abortion procedure. if he argues with that, well he should have thought of that before he went ahead and fucked a girl without a condom
Your words, not mine.
he's not MAKING her do anything. he can't FORCE her to have an abortion. but she can't FORCE him to pay for a child he doesn't want either. what's wrong with that? if he is willing to pay for the abortion what is her argument? in my scenario no one is FORCING anyone to do anything.
they are both equally responsible for taking care of that kid
that's what it means to be an adult and the state shouldn't have to force a human being to support their own child (whether they wanted it or not is irrelevant)
everyone understands the potential consequences of having sex so if you can't deal with the outcome then don't have sex
the rest of US should not be forced to pay for your actions
what the liberal posters do not like about my scenario is that its FAIR. they've been conditioned to believe that everything surrounding abortion should hinge on the opinion that the man is the bad guy and woman is the helpless victim. so all the laws put in place that are blatantly unfair to men are blindly defended without thinking through what's fair to both parties. i'll repeat.
NEITHER PARTY SHOULD BE FORCED TO DO ANYTHING AGAINST THEIR WILL BEFORE A CHILD IS BORN. decisions should be made by both parties without either party being forced to do anything they don't want to do.
wow you sound like Ronald fucking Reagan.
you sound like a guy who thinks the rest of us should be financially responsible for the consequences of your choices and actions
sure thing
how about this. If a woman get's pregnant and has a kid then both she and the father are financially responsible for the child
Since neither you, I or anyone other than those two are the parents they are the only ones who are responsible for financially supporting that child
agreed?
There you go then...
The welfare system encourages multiple kids. Eliminate the "freebies for kids" programs and there won't be "welfare government aid bottom feeders" as you call them. So in short, the welfare system and abortion stance of liberals clash and the welfare system negates abortion.
Sort of a clusterfuck post ??
Anyways...my point is this.
I'm a social liberal, people should be allowed to do whatever they please as long as you're not infringing on the rights of others.
With that being said...how far do you go back and define "life" ? You can argue this point until the cows come home and then there will be someone who goes a step further and says "technically it's when a man's schwanz enters a vagine". ...then it becomes a cluster fuck.
I'm 100% for abortion. It should be someone's choice and I'm for it for financial reasons.
This year something like close to 40,000 kids were loaded up on buses without parents from Honduras, Mexico & Guatemala to the US. Obviously these kids aren't wanted and can't be taken for by their parents. ...why the fuck would you bring a child into this world without being able to provide for it and give it the best life you can possibly give them? It's a fucked up subject when you really sit down and think about it.
agree. my point is that if women KNEW before the baby was born if the father wanted to take care of it, she can make an informed choice about whether or not they can raise the child. if the women KNOWS that the father will NOT take responsibility, (this includes him signing away all of his parental rights and liability), and she knows there is no hope of suing him for child support, she is more likely to make the choice to abort, saving herself and society a lot of money and reducing crime.
the only argument ANYONE could possibly have against this system is if they fundamentally do not agree with abortion and believe it to be murder and/or a dangerous procedure, which we've all learned that it is not.
I suspect you did not mean your post to come across exactly as it did. There are women who are single mothers and who both want a child and are able to assume full responsibility for raising the child, financial and otherwise. Your post implies to some degree that most single moms are incapable of doing unless they get some help from the child's father.
you are correct about single mothers being capable of raising a child 100% on their own.
However the courts prior legislation would disagree with you and me in that they ALWAYS levy some amount of child support payments on the biological father in cases where the mother sues for said child support.
so the courts believe that the mother should have help from the biological father. problem is, even if they do award the child support to the mother, many times it is never paid.
which is why the discussion needs to happen before the goo becomes a human being. and if the father does not want to have the goo turn into a baby, he should surrender all his rights in time for her to abort. if she wants to go ahead, have the baby, and pay for the baby herself, she has every right to. you can't force a woman to have an abortion. but she shouldn't be able to force him to pay for a child he doesn't want.
both sexes need to be able to have recourse in an unwanted pregnancy. not just the woman.
that is fair. it may sound ugly. but its the only way that's fair.
so we're in agreement then
the woman has no right to make any claim or control over the mans body and vice versa
Correct. Now we apply the same reasoning to wallets and we're in total agreement.
sure thing
how about this. If a woman get's pregnant and has a kid then both she and the father are financially responsible for the child
Since neither you, I or anyone other than those two are the parents they are the only ones who are responsible for financially supporting that child
agreed?
As if every man and woman hasn't had sex with someone they wouldn't want to deal with for 18 long years. Can I get a witness?
If the glove don't fit, you must not hit!
Anymore, sure. But we were all young once.
Eric Stoltz, Killing Zoe: "All men & women 'fit.'"
Says the guy with the missus monitoring his account. ;D You had your share, stud.Frankly I did get laid when I was younger, but only because I was an avid cock fondler. :o
Did you become confused?
Sure thing? That is not the same reasoning, sir.
Whether or not I pay a woman for the next 18 years is entirely up to her to decide. I have no say. Big taxation, no representation. I'm compelled to open my wallet on the basis of her decision alone. I don't think that's right.
And you seem so keen to recognize and remove a woman's financial incentive to become pregnant in the form of welfare, yet you want to keep her incentivized by making her the sole voter in whether a man's wallet is open to her for nearly two decades. Would abortion stats be the same if a baby didn't come with free money from one source or another? Come on.
In b4 do the rite thang. As if every man and woman hasn't had sex with someone they wouldn't want to deal with for 18 long years. Can I get a witness?
Did you become confused?
Sure thing? That is not the same reasoning, sir.
Whether or not I pay a woman for the next 18 years is entirely up to her to decide. I have no say. Big taxation, no representation. I'm compelled to open my wallet on the basis of her decision alone. I don't think that's right.
And you seem so keen to recognize and remove a woman's financial incentive to become pregnant in the form of welfare, yet you want to keep her incentivized by making her the sole voter in whether a man's wallet is open to her for nearly two decades. Would abortion stats be the same if a baby didn't come with free money from one source or another? Come on.
In b4 do the rite thang. As if every man and woman hasn't had sex with someone they wouldn't want to deal with for 18 long years. Can I get a witness?
Did you become confused?
Sure thing? That is not the same reasoning, sir.
Whether or not I pay a woman for the next 18 years is entirely up to her to decide. I have no say. Big taxation, no representation. I'm compelled to open my wallet on the basis of her decision alone. I don't think that's right.
And you seem so keen to recognize and remove a woman's financial incentive to become pregnant in the form of welfare, yet you want to keep her incentivized by making her the sole voter in whether a man's wallet is open to her for nearly two decades. Would abortion stats be the same if a baby didn't come with free money from one source or another? Come on.
In b4 do the rite thang. As if every man and woman hasn't had sex with someone they wouldn't want to deal with for 18 long years. Can I get a witness?
Aside from pregnancies resulting from artificial insemination where the sperm donor is unknown, both the man and the woman are responsible for her pregnancy and raising the child for 18 years.
This is really really simple (bears pay attention - this is for you too)
the woman has the burden of dealing with all the issues of being pregnant and giving birth.
She has an extra burden and it's happening in her body .....therefore it's solely her choice
If you're old enough to have sex then you're old enough to deal with the consequences of your actions.
When the day comes when the woman can extract the fertilized egg and give it to the man to gestate and give birth to then we will all be equal.
Until that day the women gets the choice of whether to get an abortion or give birth and if she choose to give birth then BOTH the mother and the father are responsible for supporting that child. The courts exist to make sure the father follows through with his obligation so that his obligation to support his child does not fall on the rest of us.
If you don't like this system then you might be better off in a country where women are in fact treated as the mans property.
Of course, you always retain the option to simply not have sex and then you won't have to deal with the unintended consequences of your actions
Isn't that exact issue he's addressing? He knows this. We all know this.
This is really really simple (bears pay attention - this is for you too)
the woman has the burden of dealing with all the issues of being pregnant and giving birth.
She has an extra burden and it's happening in her body .....therefore it's solely her choice
If you're old enough to have sex then you're old enough to deal with the consequences of your actions.
When the day comes when the woman can extract the fertilized egg and give it to the man to gestate and give birth to then we will all be equal.
Until that day the women gets the choice of whether to get an abortion or give birth and if she choose to give birth then BOTH the mother and the father are responsible for supporting that child. The courts exist to make sure the father follows through with his obligation so that his obligation to support his child does not fall on the rest of us.
If you don't like this system then you might be better off in a country where women are in fact treated as the mans property.
Of course, you always retain the option to simply not have sex and then you won't have to deal with the unintended consequences of your actions
and the man has the "burden" of dealing with being financially responsible for the child for 18 years and raising them to be good people for 18 years. because that's what fathers do. and sorry but raising a child is harder than being pregnant and giving birth. if you had kids you'd know this. but you obviously don't. it's very apparent.
so the decision should not be solely hers to make. It should be both of theirs to make.
and both the mother and father are equally burdened (HATE that word because its the best thing in the world to raise your kids) in raising a child for 18 years. i'm a father of two boys. my wife's job is not easier than mine and mine is not easier than hers. you've been poisoned by the liberal media to think that because the mother carries a child that they're somehow MORE important than the father when you're dead wrong. they're equally important.
yeah and your comments about dealing with the consequences of your actions are exactly what pro life people say to women who have abortions. unfortunately people like you have been taught by feminist women that those rules only apply to men.
.....and sorry but raising a child is harder than being pregnant and giving birth.
How many parents die as a result of raising their children?
Kristin Marlowe was seven months pregnant and admitted for a small placental tear at Mercy Hospital in Springfield, Mo., when she began to complain of a headache. An hour later, she stopped breathing. Strong, healthy and only 20 years old — she died of a stroke.
The maternal death rate in the U.S. is creeping upward — to more than double what it was 25 years ago. Systems identifying deaths have improved, so how much the increase can be attributed to risk is uncertain. But experts agree maternal deaths are no longer declining, are underestimated, largely preventable and disproportionately affect certain groups.
The rate of severe complications during and after delivery have also doubled in the last decade, according to a 2012 federal study. Near-misses, where a woman nearly dies, increased by 27 percent.
That means each year in the U.S., about 700 women die of pregnancy-related complications and 52,000 experience emergencies such as acute renal failure, shock, respiratory distress, aneurysms and heart surgery. An additional 34,000 barely avoid death.
meh - that's nothing
don't you understand how much harder it is for a father to have to raise a child or how unfair that it is that he can't force a women to abort a child he doesn't want or how really unfair it is that he's forced to be financially responsible for his decision to have sex knowing full well that one of the consequences might be an unwanted child.
those are all just so unfair for the man and much more difficult than death or major health issues that ONLY women have to deal with.
Women get off easy. All they have to do is deal with pregnancy, birth, post pregnancy health issues and after that they still have the exact same financial and other parenting burdens as men
How many parents die as a result of raising their children?
Kristin Marlowe was seven months pregnant and admitted for a small placental tear at Mercy Hospital in Springfield, Mo., when she began to complain of a headache. An hour later, she stopped breathing. Strong, healthy and only 20 years old — she died of a stroke.
The maternal death rate in the U.S. is creeping upward — to more than double what it was 25 years ago. Systems identifying deaths have improved, so how much the increase can be attributed to risk is uncertain. But experts agree maternal deaths are no longer declining, are underestimated, largely preventable and disproportionately affect certain groups.
The rate of severe complications during and after delivery have also doubled in the last decade, according to a 2012 federal study. Near-misses, where a woman nearly dies, increased by 27 percent.
That means each year in the U.S., about 700 women die of pregnancy-related complications and 52,000 experience emergencies such as acute renal failure, shock, respiratory distress, aneurysms and heart surgery. An additional 34,000 barely avoid death.
You're kidding, right?
You're kidding, right?
700 a year? in all honesty that's nothing. and just as many die from abortion procedure complications so your point is null. people die. it happens. it shouldn't have any effect on the fact that the father should have a choice.
And while the decrease is most welcomed, the abortion industry likes to act as if women no longer died from abortion once it became legal. In fact, CDC reports that twelve more women died in 2008, the most recent year for which the CDC had data, and more than 400 women have died from legal abortion since 1973.http://www.lifenews.com/2012/11/27/more-than-400-women-have-died-from-legal-abortions-since-1973/
700 a year? in all honesty that's nothing. and just as many die from abortion procedure complications so your point is null. people die. it happens. it shouldn't have any effect on the fact that the father should have a choice.
no he's being facetious. his point is that since women give birth they should be able to force a man to take care of a baby he doesn't want. because he should have thought of that before he had unprotected sex. because that's what adults do. take care of their responsibilities.
basically if MEN have unprotected sex, they should be ready to raise a child.
if WOMEN have unprotected sex, they can do whatever they feel like doing. kill it. keep it. whatever. all because they can get pregnant and men can't. that precludes them from having to be responsible.
so Straw believes that life begins at conception if you're a man. but life begins at birth if you're a woman. his logic is flawless.
actually not even close
not sure if you knew your statement was false or were just making an assumption which turned out to be grossly off the mark
http://www.lifenews.com/2012/11/27/more-than-400-women-have-died-from-legal-abortions-since-1973/
great job avoiding the tens of thousands of woman who also suffer serious health consequences from pregnancy
The father should have a choice to do what?
.... 52,000 pregnant women experience emergencies such as acute renal failure, shock, respiratory distress, aneurysms and heart surgery. An additional 34,000 barely avoid death. -Odd that you would think this is nothing, but then you are not a woman and you'll never be faced with these risks.
don't put words in my mouth, especially given your penchant for just pulling stuff out of your ass
As a responsible adult male I have no problem with the current system where a woman can choose solely at her discretion whether to terminate a pregnancy or not (and within the legal timeframe)
I also fully accept any and all responsibilities for my actions and I certainly would not run around crying about how life is unfair
right. and if men can make a decision not to take care of a baby they don't want then more women will abort. if more women abort, less will die from complications of giving birth.
don't put words in my mouth, especially given your penchant for just pulling stuff out of your ass
As a responsible adult male I have no problem with the current system where a woman can choose solely at her discretion whether to terminate a pregnancy or not (and within the legal timeframe)
I also fully accept any and all responsibilities for my actions and I certainly would not run around crying about how life is unfair
LOL. i'll give you a chance to actually read the article that you posted. please just read the actual whole article.
did you read this part?
While it is clear that there have been real declines in recent years, absolute numbers from the CDC should be taken with several shakers of salt. Since 1998, the CDC has not included any data from California, the nation’s most populated state, or New Hampshire, in its totals. And at least one other state has usually been missing from the data set (this year it’s two–Delaware, where there were 4,603 abortions performed in 2008, and Maryland, which has not reported since 2007.)
While the CDC relies on reports from state health departments, surveys done by the Guttmacher Institute found about 400,000 more abortions per year by contacting abortionists directly. Most recent figures from Guttmacher have estimated that there are just over 1.2 million abortions a year.
While missing several hundred thousand abortions, numbers from the CDC still roughly track those from Guttmacher, so trends and demographics are still very much worth considering.
So your main issue is that men should be able to choose to help support their offspring?
In a perfect world, people would only have children when they wanted them and had the means to raise them, both financially and emotionally. But the world isn't perfect, is it? Sometimes babies are born to parents who are practically children themselves. Often there is little hope these parents will ever be in a position to be responsible parents. Who suffers? To some degree the parents, but mostly it is their children.
It is a shame when abortion is used as contraception. It is a shame when children have children. It is shameful that some men and some women abandon their children, taking no responsibility for them at all. Often unwanted, uncared-for children become wards of the state or at least supported with public dollars. There is almost nothing good in these scenarios except those rare occasions when the children grow up to be happy successful adults despite their worthless parents.
sorry I had to address this before I left. so why don't you place the same responsibility on women to do the right thing and not run around crying about how unfair life is because they have to give birth? shouldn't they act like responsible adult females?
I've never seen a woman (or heard of one) crying about how life is unfair because they "have to give birth"I think they say something along the lines of "Why cant you have one?"
maybe the reason is because they don't have to give birth
they have a choice as to whether to have an abortion or to give birth
LOL. i'll give you a chance to actually read the article that you posted. please just read the actual whole article.
did you read this part?
While it is clear that there have been real declines in recent years, absolute numbers from the CDC should be taken with several shakers of salt. Since 1998, the CDC has not included any data from California, the nation’s most populated state, or New Hampshire, in its totals. And at least one other state has usually been missing from the data set (this year it’s two–Delaware, where there were 4,603 abortions performed in 2008, and Maryland, which has not reported since 2007.)
While the CDC relies on reports from state health departments, surveys done by the Guttmacher Institute found about 400,000 more abortions per year by contacting abortionists directly. Most recent figures from Guttmacher have estimated that there are just over 1.2 million abortions a year.
While missing several hundred thousand abortions, numbers from the CDC still roughly track those from Guttmacher, so trends and demographics are still very much worth considering.
if they are to share in the responsibility to raise the child with the woman they should be able to share in the decision to have the baby.
Are you saying that if a man tells a woman he is not interested in assuming any responsibility for their child, this should let him off the hook? Should the man also be able to dictate whether the woman has an abortion or not?
The following are several important statistics dealing with single mother hood and teen pregnancy:
•The UK has the highest number of unmarried teenage mothers in the world.
•The United States has, worldwide, the second largest percentage of men and women who are sexually active before the age of 18 (73% of men, 63% of women).
•22% of girls 15-18 who have had sexual intercourse will become pregnant.
•About 13% of all US births are to teenage mothers, rising to 33% of all girls who have had less than 10-12 years of schooling.
•Single parent households grew form 5% of all US households in 1970, to 9% in 1990.
•Out of the 5.7 million women who were due to receive child support in 1989, only 50% received full payment, while 25% received nothing.
•25% of all births in the US today are to unmarried mothers, and increase from 11% in 1970.
•Children of divorce make up the largest portion of one-parent children at 37% while children born to a parent who never married are 33%
•The income of the poorest fifth of families with children and single mothers rose on an average by almost 14%, or about $1000, between 1993 and 1995, only to fall again by nearly 7% or about $580 per family between 1995 and 1997. This effects an average of 2 million families.
dude. read my posts. you have to read my posts
agree. my point is that if women KNEW before the baby was born if the father wanted to take care of it, she can make an informed choice about whether or not they can raise the child. if the women KNOWS that the father will NOT take responsibility, (this includes him signing away all of his parental rights and liability), and she knows there is no hope of suing him for child support, she is more likely to make the choice to abort, saving herself and society a lot of money and reducing crime.
the only argument ANYONE could possibly have against this system is if they fundamentally do not agree with abortion and believe it to be murder and/or a dangerous procedure, which we've all learned that it is not.
Are you saying that if a man tells a woman he is not interested in assuming any responsibility for their child, this should let him off the hook? Should the man also be able to dictate whether the woman has an abortion or not?
The following are several important statistics dealing with single mother hood and teen pregnancy:
•The UK has the highest number of unmarried teenage mothers in the world.
•The United States has, worldwide, the second largest percentage of men and women who are sexually active before the age of 18 (73% of men, 63% of women).
•22% of girls 15-18 who have had sexual intercourse will become pregnant.
•About 13% of all US births are to teenage mothers, rising to 33% of all girls who have had less than 10-12 years of schooling.
•Single parent households grew form 5% of all US households in 1970, to 9% in 1990.
•Out of the 5.7 million women who were due to receive child support in 1989, only 50% received full payment, while 25% received nothing.
•25% of all births in the US today are to unmarried mothers, and increase from 11% in 1970.
•Children of divorce make up the largest portion of one-parent children at 37% while children born to a parent who never married are 33%
•The income of the poorest fifth of families with children and single mothers rose on an average by almost 14%, or about $1000, between 1993 and 1995, only to fall again by nearly 7% or about $580 per family between 1995 and 1997. This effects an average of 2 million families.
This post of yours pretty much makes your point,
I've never seen a woman (or heard of one) crying about how life is unfair because they "have to give birth"
maybe the reason is because they don't have to give birth
they have a choice as to whether to have an abortion or to give birth
are you being fucking serious?I suspect he never leaves the basement.
I suspect he never leaves the basement.I own my house in California and I don't have a basement
are you being fucking serious?
I own my house in California and I don't have a basementWe are all well off on the internet. ::)
I also happen to be posting from my office (where I pay the rent each month)
how about you?
why would a women complain about "having to give birth" when they in fact don't have to give birth
your statement makes no sense
We are all well off on the internet. ::)
Women always complain about being the ones who have to shit out the kids in a relationship.
Stop being a fucking idiot.
We are all well off on the internet. ::)
Women always complain about being the ones who have to shit out the kids in a relationship.
Stop being a fucking idiot.
Not always. My wife was delighted both times she was pregnant. In fact, she'd hoped to have five kids. Lucky for us, we didn't because that's a lot of kids to support for 18 years. I'll give you that she was not real comfortable towards the end of each pregnancy when her belly was huge. Childbirth was no picnic either, but she maintains you forget the pain of it. She did however, yell at me that it was all my fault during one particularly painful moment during labor just before our son was delivered.....actually, it was pretty funny!Prime, fuck off.
Prime, fuck off.
I didn't mean "always" to be taken literally as in every single instance.
and cut the life-story shite, no one gives a fuck.
al·ways [awl-weyz, -weez]
adverb
1. every time; on every occasion; without exception: He always works on Saturday.
2. all the time; continuously; uninterruptedly: There is always some pollution in the air.
3. forever: Will you always love me?
4. in any event; at any time; if necessary: She can always move back with her parents.
Isn't that exact issue he's addressing? He knows this. We all know this.
don't put words in my mouth, especially given your penchant for just pulling stuff out of your ass
As a responsible adult male I have no problem with the current system where a woman can choose solely at her discretion whether to terminate a pregnancy or not (and within the legal timeframe)
I also fully accept any and all responsibilities for my actions and I certainly would not run around crying about how life is unfair