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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => History - Stories - and Memories => Topic started by: GoneAway on December 25, 2008, 07:41:34 PM
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Between these two multi-Olympians, who was the better bodybuilder when it's all said and done?
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Wondering when this subject would come up ;D....Goneawy when you say better Bodybuilder are you asking who had the Best Built Body or who was a Better BBer in terms of overall package presentation, influence, popularity etc?
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Wondering when this subject would come up ;D....Goneawy when you say better Bodybuilder are you asking who had the Best Built Body or who was a Better BBer in terms of overall package presentation, influence, popularity etc?
Best physique only.
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Best physique in my view in terms of structure, balance between upper-body and lower body etc has to be Sergio, However in 1973 or 1974 Arnold brought a package and a new standard never seen before, and I'm not 100% percent convinced Sergio even in his 1972 shape could of beaten Arnold in 73 or 74...While it is generally accepted Sergio's best shape was @ the 1972 Olympia or @ w/s park in London, i believe this package Sergio presented in Japan @ a guess appearance was his best and would be his best chance onstage against Arnold under lights in 73 or 74 ( given the natural lighting outside in japan etc...) photo's C/O Robert Forbes.
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The unbealivable Oliva in Japan...
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W/S Park London 1972 :)
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................ ;)
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1972 Olympia
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In 1974 Arnold was Massive and cut...
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2 BB legends Back in the 1960s when Sergio was still King and BBers knew how to dress in public :) :) :)
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Couple more from Japan :)
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1973-1974 Arnold had set new heights for all others to chase...
1973 Sergio was knocking on the door again...
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Some great shots of Sergio there. That kneeling most muscular in Japan... wow!
Best physique in my view in terms of structure, balance between upper-body and lower body etc has to be Sergio, However in 1973 or 1974 Arnold brought a package and a new standard never seen before, and I'm not 100% percent convinced Sergio even in his 1972 shape could of beaten Arnold in 73 or 74...While it is generally accepted Sergio's best shape was @ the 1972 Olympia or @ w/s park in London, i believe this package Sergio presented in Japan @ a guess appearance was his best and would be his best chance onstage against Arnold under lights in 73 or 74 ( given the natural lighting outside in japan etc...) photo's C/O Robert Forbes.
Yes, Sergio is almost unparalleled in terms of upper-lower body proportion. He simply has full, thick muscles everywhere. Arnold fluctuated a little in terms of upper-lower proportion, but most of the time it was alright.
One thing Sergio often lacked was detail, especially compared to Arnold. He has the size in spades and was a decent poser, but part of Arnold's victories over him was based on superior detail. This is fairly minute in the scheme of things, but that's just how good these two were, that every little bit counts.
I would say Sergio's 1973 Mr. International condition would have been as good, if not better than the 1972 Olympia, given Sergio still had a few weeks or so to dial in further. Would have been great to see these two square off one more time.
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It just doesn't get much better than this. Taken shortly after his first Mr. Olympia victory, whilst touring in England.
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Great pics.
Sergio had a look of raw power, Arnold was more polished.
Sergio was complete and massive all over, Arnold lacked lower body mass, but had great flow and shape.
Both fantastic, comes down to subjective personal preference. Maybe question should be: " Who'd you rather emulate, Arnold or Sergio?"
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It just doesn't get much better than this. Taken shortly after his first Mr. Olympia victory, whilst touring in England.
Your correct about Arnold who more consistently Had Superior detail and conditioning than Sergio, Arnold it was clear left nothing to chance,checking out the venues before hand for lighting etc, physique, presentation, posing, charisma, and having the right sort of friends in high places never did him any harm ether, Arnold was and clearly is still a very smart man.
The below pictures show how Impressive Sergio could look when he ACTUALLY brought the full package together.
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Arnold it was clear left nothing to chance,checking out the venues before hand for lighting etc, physique, presentation, posing, charisma, and having the right sort of friends in high places never did him any harm ether, Arnold was and clearly is still a very smart man.
Epic Arnold ball-wash. It's easy to claim all these things after the fact, reality is he wasn't totally ready in '72 and wasn't willing to come out of the audience at the International either.
He had Weider willing to cede him 1st place in the Olympia whenever it was close, and was motivated into his best shape by the threat of Sergio actually.
None of his victories had much to do with him being a "very smart man" as you say.
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................ :)
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Epic Arnold ball-wash. It's easy to claim all these things after the fact, reality is he wasn't totally ready in '72 and wasn't willing to come out of the audience at the International either.
He had Weider willing to cede him 1st place in the Olympia whenever it was close, and was motivated into his best shape by the threat of Sergio actually.
None of his victories had much to do with him being a "very smart man" as you say.
Are you suggesting Sergio came into contests against Arnold just as prepared as Arnold?..you talk alot about politics in yr posts witch is yr call...could it actually be the bodybuilder who's in question that has to take responsibility for the outcome of contest result? as in coming into the contest in Proper condition, tan, oil, checking out the best lighting etc..etc....are you also suggesting Arnold's actions had nothing to do with him being a smart man?... ???
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Are you suggesting Sergio came into contests against Arnold just as prepared as Arnold?..
There wasn't that much difference dude, which is why the rivalry was so great. The rivalry was killed by Joe Weider, not by fair competition all through the early-mid 70s. Not much to do with Arnold's "intellect" actually, just as most of Arnold's rhetoric about "psyching out opponents" wasn't true but sounds great and is believed by many to this day.
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Yip i hear you there, well the part about Joe Weider...interestedly enough while on the subject, the length's that ah...well the powers that be went though @ the time against Sergio were on Full Display in this blantent propaganda, touched-up picture of Sergio's calves as PROOF of what happens when you don't follow the "WEIDER system" as opposed to the bloke on the right who does Follow the "Weider system".. ??? ??? ???
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Sergio really killed Schwarzie from the back..
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Yip i hear you there, well the part about Joe Weider...interestedly enough while on the subject, the length's that ah...well the powers that be went though @ the time against Sergio were on Full Display in this blantent propaganda, touched-up picture of Sergio's calves as PROOF of what happens when you don't follow the "WEIDER system" as opposed to the bloke on the right who does Follow the "Weider system".. ??? ??? ???
Are you sure Sergio's calves are touched up in that picture? They do look small, but his calves usually looked small from behind.
The rivalry was killed by Joe Weider, not by fair competition all through the early-mid 70s.
Both the 1970 and 1972 Mr. Olympia could have gone either way. The 1970 AAU Mr. World wasn't a Weider contest. Sergio is as much responsible by breaking the rules not once, but twice. Sergio was even preparing for the Mr. Olympia in '73 and there would be no justifyable reason why he wouldn't be allowed to compete, if he hadn't broken the rules a year earlier by competing in the WBBG Mr. Galaxy. The timing for his suspension, on the day of his win at the Mr. International, is odd, but rules are rules.
Back to deciding who had the better physique... Arnold or Sergio?
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Are you sure Sergio's calves are touched up in that picture? They do look small, but his calves usually looked small from behind.
Both the 1970 and 1972 Mr. Olympia could have gone either way. The 1970 AAU Mr. World wasn't a Weider contest. Sergio is as much responsible by breaking the rules not once, but twice. Sergio was even preparing for the Mr. Olympia in '73 and there would be no justifyable reason why he wouldn't be allowed to compete, if he hadn't broken the rules a year earlier by competing in the WBBG Mr. Galaxy. The timing for his suspension, on the day of his win at the Mr. International, is odd, but rules are rules.
Back to deciding who had the better physique... Arnold or Sergio?
Blatantly touched up 1970s style ;D ;D ;D..Sergio's calves didnot look big from the rear back then however Sergio always had Long muscle inserts in his calves even though he had the charming habit of not flexing his quads and calves as a whole with the rest of his body, in that pic of his "calves" its clear from the distortion in the picture by way of the blurring affect, the length and size have been shortened, i agree somewhat with the 1972 result as in it COULD of gone ether way as it was real close...however the point that others here@ getbig (and other websites) have made about politics @ the 72 show have some merit with all the negative stuff that had gone on before hand with Sergio's comments in non Weider mags, entering other non ifbb contests etc etc...too what extent we all will never know other than Mr Olympia 1972 is Arnold Schwarzenegger.
I personally think Sergio (in his best shape) had a better, balanced, structured physique than Arnold, after watching the 1972 O on DVD i think Sergio looks alot better than all the 72 O pics Ive seen, incredible mass, lines, quads, etc...id go with Sergio as Mr Olympia 1972 bye a whisker...
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As much as I admire the incredible physique of Arnold Schwarzenegger, I must admit that he did have his flaws. Maybe more than Sergio.
Arnold's upper legs were sometimes a little weak when compared to his upperbody. His left arm, in some shots, looked smaller when compared to his right arm - speaking from a straight-on shot, not a twisting shot which purposely made the left arm look smaller. In some shots, Arnold's triceps are disproportionate to his biceps and hamstrings looking disproportionately smaller than quads - most notably in the side chest pose. At the 1968 IFBB Mr. Universe, his conditioning was horrible and he could have been alot bigger at the 1980 Mr. Olympia.
Sergio also had his flaws. Disproportionately small biceps, coupled with long biceps insertions and lack of detail between biceps and triceps when viewed from the front and back. Before 1980/1, a lack of detail between the muscles of the upper back, particularly in the back double biceps. Arnold always had great back detail and beats Sergio at the 1972 Mr. Olympia, because of superior detail and posing ability in this pose.
Make no mistake about it, though, Arnold had a very thick back and could match Sergio for thickness when they were competing together in the '70's.
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Yip arnold had some good back thickness and width in the 1970s well heres the thickness on display :)
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Blatantly touched up 1970s style ;D ;D ;D..Sergio's calves didnot look big from the rear back then however Sergio always had Long muscle inserts in his calves even though he had the charming habit of not flexing his quads and calves as a whole with the rest of his body, in that pic of his "calves" its clear from the distortion in the picture by way of the blurring affect, the length and size have been shortened, i agree somewhat with the 1972 result as in it COULD of gone ether way as it was real close...however the point that others here@ getbig (and other websites) have made about politics @ the 72 show have some merit with all the negative stuff that had gone on before hand with Sergio's comments in non Weider mags, entering other non ifbb contests etc etc...too what extent we all will never know other than Mr Olympia 1972 is Arnold Schwarzenegger.
I personally think Sergio (in his best shape) had a better, balanced, structured physique than Arnold, after watching the 1972 O on DVD i think Sergio looks alot better than all the 72 O pics Ive seen, incredible mass, lines, quads, etc...id go with Sergio as Mr Olympia 1972 bye a whisker...
Sergio in '72 was incredible. I haven't done a thread about this contest yet, but there are alot of pics and footage that shows Sergio being at arguably his peak condition. That front lat spread I posted shows the extent of how great he looked. Arnold was rarely very impressive in the front lat spread, due to the upper-lower body imbalance, but did hold his own at that show.
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Sergio in '72 was incredible. I haven't done a thread about this contest yet, but there are alot of pics and footage that shows Sergio being at arguably his peak condition. That front lat spread I posted shows the extent of how great he looked. Arnold was rarely very impressive in the front lat spread, due to the upper-lower body imbalance, but did hold his own at that show.
Yes this picture here yourv'e posted of Sergio and Arnold's FDB is a Fantastic shot of 2 great physiques, and surprisingly enough i didn,t think Arnold's quads would look that good when i saw the shot for the first time, as with alot of Arnold's pictures when hes relaxed his quads look somewhat sub-par...then he flex's them and bang they look impressive,as everyone knows his hamstrings were his main weakness in the leg department, but when he'd rub them hard up against the side of his other leg all was well ;D ;D ;D
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Arnold's quads were usually undersized in these later shows, but he was able to offset the disadvantage as much as possible by good posing, excellent calves and very sharp and aesthetic quads.
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Both the 1970 and 1972 Mr. Olympia could have gone either way. The 1970 AAU Mr. World wasn't a Weider contest. Sergio is as much responsible by breaking the rules not once, but twice. Sergio was even preparing for the Mr. Olympia in '73 and there would be no justifyable reason why he wouldn't be allowed to compete, if he hadn't broken the rules a year earlier by competing in the WBBG Mr. Galaxy. The timing for his suspension, on the day of his win at the Mr. International, is odd, but rules are rules.
That's giving too much of a Weider/IFBB spin IMO.
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Heres another picture i scanned some time back out of a ironman mag of Sergio @ the 1973 International in Mexico with poor old Franco looking alittle uncomfortable next to him ;D ;D ;D...strangely enough the article that was directly underneath it concentrated on BBers on Steroids who abuse their wives :( :( :(...the article is long gone :-X :-X :-X
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Arnold's upper legs were sometimes a little weak when compared to his upperbody. His left arm, in some shots, looked smaller when compared to his right arm - speaking from a straight-on shot, not a twisting shot which purposely made the left arm look smaller. In some shots, Arnold's triceps are disproportionate to his biceps and hamstrings looking disproportionately smaller than quads - most notably in the side chest pose. At the 1968 IFBB Mr. Universe, his conditioning was horrible and he could have been alot bigger at the 1980 Mr. Olympia.
Sergio also had his flaws. Disproportionately small biceps, coupled with long biceps insertions and lack of detail between biceps and triceps when viewed from the front and back. Before 1980/1, a lack of detail between the muscles of the upper back, particularly in the back double biceps. Arnold always had great back detail and beats Sergio at the 1972 Mr. Olympia, because of superior detail and posing ability in this pose.
Make no mistake about it, though, Arnold had a very thick back and could match Sergio for thickness when they were competing together in the '70's.
I think that some of the standard suppositions about these two are incorrect.
In the case of arms:
Arnold's triceps are to this often considered weak. In fact they were quite well developed with good size, it was just (1) the outrageous bis and (2) the lack of great cuts that left them less noticed actually-very similar to Coleman. They both had the same thing, outrageous bis and large but less than great triceps cuts thus the tris were overlooked and deemed to be out of proportion to the bis, which i would say in both cases was untrue.
In Sergio's case it was the opposite-bis were quite large, but (1) overshadowed by outrageous tris and (2) the lack of much biceps detail, thus the assumption by some that the bis were undersized or weak when they weren't.
In the case of hamstrings, while Arnold's were poor that was true of most BBs at that time, thus it wasn't a big issue IMO.
In the case of Sergio's back, i'm not sure i agree that detail only came in during the early 80s-i think that what that was was an absence of pics taken of him in peak condition, given that by then he wasn't with Weider anymore-see the next paragraph. Also, he wasn't in great condition alot of the time, which compounded the issue.
The unfortunate thing about Sergio and any non-IFBB BB in the 70s is that the photography in most mags outside of Weider's wasn't great, thus there aren't alot of great contest and training shots of Oliva, not nearly the same number as readily seen with Schwarzenegger, which tends to tilt the bias in favor of Arnold, given the far more numerous and high quality pics available of him in his prime.
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I think that some of the standard suppositions about these two are incorrect. In both cases pertaining to upper arms.
The first is Arnold's triceps-they were quite well developed with good size, it was just (1) the outrageous bis and (2) the lack of great cuts that left them less noticed actually-very similar to Coleman. They both had the same thing, outrageous bis and large but less than great triceps cuts thus the tris were overlooked and deemed to be out of proportion to the bis, which i would say in both cases was untrue.
In Sergio's case it was the opposite-bis were quite large, but overshadowed by outrageous tris and the lack of much biceps detail, thus the assumption by some that the bis were undersized when they weren't.
The unfortunate thing about Sergio and any non-IFBB BB in the 70s is that the photography in most mags outside of Weider's wasn't great, thus there aren't alot of great contest and training shots of Oliva, not nearly the same number as readily seen with Schwarzenegger, which tends to tilt the bias in favor of Arnold, given the far more numerous and high quality pics available of him in his prime.
That last paragraph you wrote is exactly right.
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Agreed that there are more high-quality shots of Arnold in his prime than Sergio. That's why I look forward to Johnny's posts, to see the rare shots of The Myth!
Back in 1968, before Arnold even competed in his first Mr. Olympia, this very same question was being asked:
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Agreed that there are more high-quality shots of Arnold in his prime than Sergio. That's why I look forward to Johnny's posts, to see the rare shots of The Myth!
Back in 1968, before Arnold even competed in his first Mr. Olympia, this very same question was being asked:
That very Question was also (more than likely) running though the mind of the young upstart Arnold Schwarzenegger as he looked on @ frank Zane receiving his first place trophy @ the 1968 Mr Universe, being presented bye none other than the then reigning MR Olympia Champion Sergio Oliva, who was (I'm assuming) a Guess Poser @ the show...again Calling on Mr Joe Roark... any information @ all to go along with this Rare Picture of Sergio, his appearance and participation @ the show :)
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That's giving too much of a Weider/IFBB spin IMO.
I was looking at it strictly from a rulebook perspective. I'd be interested in hearing your take on it, though.
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I was looking at it strictly from a rulebook perspective. I'd be interested in hearing your take on it, though.
Sure, here at the bottom of the page.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=114598.25
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Sure, here at the bottom of the page.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=114598.25
That doesn't explain why Sergio would enter two contests for rival organisations. If it was only (Joe) Weider who was responsible for killing off the feud, why would he give Sergio the option to compete in '71, '72 and '73? Granted, I can appreciate the suspicious nature behind his '73 DQ, but that doesn't explain the past two years (and why Sergio entered the '72 WBBG Mr. Galaxy, for example.)
If Sergio had not entered the '71 NABBA Universe, (Joe) Weider would not have had any reason to disqualify him from the contest. If he did DQ an honest Sergio, it would be very clear what was going on. But, the fact is, he had every right to DQ him from that contest. I acknowledge that Arnold was the best posterboy for the IFBB since Larry Scott and the Weider's probably did have an agenda to keep Arnold over Sergio, but Sergio did play a part in his own downfall from the IFBB. It was not all the Weider's doing.
It took alot of work in the gym to beat Sergio:
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That doesn't explain why Sergio would enter two contests for rival organisations.
That's only one tangent, which doesn't sufficiently explain it either, actually. Joe Weider was the biggest factor not only in Oliva being out of early 70s Olympias but also a huge part of an era of BB, that from the late 70s. It was due to Weider that Szkalak, Padilla, Robinson, Nubret, Oliva and Mentzer weren't around in the early 80s. A big part of why the early 80s Olympia winners were fairly mediocre in the context of those named above who weren't there.
Too much evidence there my friend, alot more than there is concerning triva about a rival organization.
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In 1974 Arnold wether in guess shows, in the mountions, or on the stage was unstoppable.
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Sergio's lone win over Arnold, bad lighting (and picture quality) however the mass Sergio had in 1969 was enough to hold the youngster @ bay.
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In 1972 Sergio was near perfection.
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Sergio was already looking over his shoulder in 1969 ;D
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Great shots as always, Johnny. Thankyou! By the way, the single-arm biceps shot taken at Muscle Rock is actually from 1975, not '74.
Now, we all agree that the '72 Mr. Olympia was very, very close. Johnny, you think Sergio should have won, albeit by a whisker. My verdict it still out, and pumpster thinks it could have gone either way. What if Arnold's 1974 condition was up against Sergio's 1972 shape... Would it be so close? Who would have the upper hand and would there be a decisive winner this time?
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2 of the pictures of Sergio hitting twisting arm shots to the front and to the rear (both at 3/4) turn could be the most impressive photos ever taken. Just fucking amazing how big his arms lats and shoulders are compaired to his tiny waist! :o. Sergio was and is the man!
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I've felt for a long time that these two pics are good representations of each at their peak, and thus are a good basis for comparison. Not insignificant, thanks to the dearth of good Sergio pics in his prime.
At this level who is better is purely subjective, a matter of taste. No clear-cut winner.
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Great shots as always, Johnny. Thankyou! By the way, the single-arm biceps shot taken at Muscle Rock is actually from 1975, not '74.
Now, we all agree that the '72 Mr. Olympia was very, very close. Johnny, you think Sergio should have won, albeit by a whisker. My verdict it still out, and pumpster thinks it could have gone either way. What if Arnold's 1974 condition was up against Sergio's 1972 shape... Would it be so close? Who would have the upper hand and would there be a decisive winner this time?
The obvious i feel would 9 times out of 10 point towards a 1974 Arnold winning comfortably over a 1972 Sergio, (due to his improvements over his 72 shape witch was good) however as pumpster correctly pointed out @ the level those 2 were at in their primes it really comes down to subjectivity and there for a clearcut winner would be difficult to nail down.
From a personal prospective i feel both Arnold and Sergio @ their best on the same stage, under the same lighting, same conditions, neutral judges, no politics,(witch is still debatable) no negative history involved...i don,t believe Arnold would have both hands on the trophy in fact if the judges ACTUALLY judged the 2 physiques on the base's of Symmetry as in the Total Balance of the Physique, muscle groups, and the Skeletal Structure, condition, etc...id still be leaning towards a 1972 Sergio over a 1974 Arnold but its just that my own PERSONAL prospective.
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Before the 1972 Mr Olympia results were made :)
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Arnold's FLS was never his Best pose but he sure looked good here.
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I've felt for a long time that these two pics are good representations of each at their peak, and thus are a good basis for comparison. Not insignificant, thanks to the dearth of good Sergio pics in his prime.
At this level who is better is purely subjective, a matter of taste. No clear-cut winner.
That comparison really shows how far Arnold came in terms of upper leg development. He is absolutely destroying Sergo there in upper legs.
The obvious i feel would 9 times out of 10 point towards a 1974 Arnold winning comfortably over a 1972 Sergio, (due to his improvements over his 72 shape witch was good) however as pumpster correctly pointed out @ the level those 2 were at in their primes it really comes down to subjectivity and there for a clearcut winner would be difficult to nail down.
From a personal prospective i feel both Arnold and Sergio @ their best on the same stage, under the same lighting, same conditions, neutral judges, no politics,(witch is still debatable) no negative history involved...i don,t believe Arnold would have both hands on the trophy in fact if the judges ACTUALLY judged the 2 physiques on the base's of Symmetry as in the Total Balance of the Physique, muscle groups, and the Skeletal Structure, condition, etc...id still be leaning towards a 1972 Sergio over a 1974 Arnold but its just that my own PERSONAL prospective.
I think the best way to settle this is with a virtual bodybuilding contest. Arnold (1974) and Sergio (1972) being the only two competitors (when Zane, Nubret, and Ferrigno saw their competition, they ran for the hills.) Pics will decide who wins each round. We'll move onto the next round once we're all satisfied that enough angles have been covered.
Before we start, I want to see what your opinions are on using non-contest shots as a basis for comparison. I would rather keep it strictly to contest footage, as that's the truest form of comparing who would win in the shape they showed up at on contest day, but I'm open to suggestions. Once I get your opinions, we'll get this thing under way.
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That comparison really shows how far Arnold came in terms of upper leg development. He is absolutely destroying Sergo there in upper legs.
No, that's way off, if anything thighs were Arnold's biggest weakness even in his greatest shape. What Arnold did everything possible for his lower body to compensate for the thigh size deficiency in both quads and hams. Great cuts, aesthetics and sweep coupled with great calves and posing that always presented them at the right angle. All those things helped to take the emphasis off the deficiency in overall thigh size.
Quad size was much better on Sergio, and in shape Sergio also had solid cuts there, along with very good calves and hamstrings. When in shape, Sergio's legs were just about perfect, virtually flawless. When in shape, Arnold's were pretty damn good but still somewhat flawed in terms of thigh size.
Therefore, at best even with the cuts Arnold's legs would've been a draw against Sergio. That was his intent i'm sure, to try to reduce Sergio's lower body advantage, which was significant.
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That comparison really shows how far Arnold came in terms of upper leg development. He is absolutely destroying Sergio there in upper legs.
I think the best way to settle this is with a virtual bodybuilding contest. Arnold (1974) and Sergio (1972) being the only two competitors (when Zane, Nubret, and Ferrigno saw their competition, they ran for the hills.) Pics will decide who wins each round. We'll move onto the next round once we're all satisfied that enough angles have been covered.
Before we start, I want to see what your opinions are on using non-contest shots as a basis for comparison. I would rather keep it strictly to contest footage, as that's the truest form of comparing who would win in the shape they showed up at on contest day, but I'm open to suggestions. Once I get your opinions, we'll get this thing under way.
The issue with having only Competion photo's is for every great Sergio picture there's 6 of Arnold, and thus the advantage will swing Arnold's way as per usual, however using the non contest pics as well (within 1 yr ether way of their respective bests) will to a certain extent even the playing Field if not entirely at least to a acceptable level (as we all know theres hundreds and hundreds of good Arnold pics compared to 40-50 good Sergio pics) however you do decide to set it up I'm in.........SERGIO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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That comparison really shows how far Arnold came in terms of upper leg development. He is absolutely destroying Sergo there in upper legs.
I dont think Arnie could destroy Maria in the upper leg department.
His calves were huge and he had nice separation and thigh rods but lacked the size Sergio had in legs.
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Only two rules -
1. Can use any picture from 1975 and before
2. No photoshopping
Let battle commence!
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How about 1980 and 1981 as well?? ;D ;D ;D...alright 1975 on down will do.
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Johnny, let's see Sergio match this side chest:
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Hmmmmmmmmmmm ;D.....you know full well theres more than likely No one in History who can match that shot...even in my Collection of Sergio pictures i havn,t got one were he's RUBBING his hamstring up against the inside leg too bring the balance of top and bottom of the physique in line ;D ;D ;D...however given the differences in lighting (outside) the angle (less slope) the outside leg of Sergio not RUBBING up against the inside leg this common shot @ W/S park is not too bad @ all. (damn you Sergio you needed to learn how to pose!!)
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Hmmmmmmmmmmm ;D.....you know full well theres more than likely No one in History who can match that shot...even in my Collection of Sergio pictures i havn,t got one were he's RUBBING his hamstring up against the inside leg too bring the balance of top and bottom of the physique in line ;D ;D ;D...however given the differences in lighting (outside) the angle (less slope) the outside leg of Sergio not RUBBING up against the inside leg this common shot @ W/S park is not too bad @ all. (damn you Sergio you needed to learn how to pose!!)
LOL! Yes, one thing Arnold new how to do was pose. Sergio really wasn't that bad of a poser - and that is a great shot of him there. Johnny, where did you get the idea that Arnold is rubbing his hamstring up against his inner leg? Not saying you're wrong (or right), but it's something I hadn't heard before now.
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It's a damn close call between Arnold and Sergio - I can't decide. :-\
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LOL! Yes, one thing Arnold new how to do was pose. Sergio really wasn't that bad of a poser - and that is a great shot of him there. Johnny, where did you get the idea that Arnold is rubbing his hamstring up against his inner leg? Not saying you're wrong (or right), but it's something I hadn't heard before now.
9 times out of 10 when hitting side shots especially the SIDE chest shot Arnold rub's the outside leg hard up against the inside leg...its a trick nearly everyone of us thats stepped out on a BB stage knows about, if yr hamstrings are a little suspect, with Arnold when hitting the side chest you will see (nearly every time) the outside leg is always just in front of the inside leg, try doing that without losing balance- if your NOT rubbing your outside leg against the inside...doesn,t work does it?...with Sergio he obviously didn,t catch on to that little trick(or just didn,t give a damn) because in most of his shots you will see his INSIDE leg in front of his outside leg...so theres no way hes trying to rub his hamstring on the inside leg...in fact bye the leg position he has in the side chest hes actually STRECHING his hamstring apart giving the impression he has Smaller hamstrings than he actually had :( :( :( as Ive said many times Arnold was a very smart man for a number of reasons and in posing and presentation he was WAY ahead of the game in the somewhat more less informed generation of BBers (1960s-70s) compared to what we have now.
In the below picture (i know its 1975 however he was still in very good condition) you can see clearly a rare picture in terms of Arnold NOT rubbing the outside leg HARD up against the inside leg showing a more accurate picture (angle withstanding) of Arnold's some what sub-par Hamstrings compared to his Massive upper body.
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Bar the angle this common picture is the best example of the my last post. :)
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One of my Favorites of the 2 on stage witch @ that time showed Arnold's uncertainty/caution standing next to Sergio, and Sergio confident and while smooth looked incredible his lines and balance in this common shot are Awesome.
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9 times out of 10 when hitting side shots especially the SIDE chest shot Arnold rub's the outside leg hard up against the inside leg...its a trick nearly everyone of us thats stepped out on a BB stage knows about, if yr hamstrings are a little suspect, with Arnold when hitting the side chest you will see (nearly every time) the outside leg is always just in front of the inside leg, try doing that without losing balance- if your NOT rubbing your outside leg against the inside...doesn,t work does it?...with Sergio he obviously didn,t catch on to that little trick(or just didn,t give a damn) because in most of his shots you will see his INSIDE leg in front of his outside leg...so theres no way hes trying to rub his hamstring on the inside leg...in fact bye the leg position he has in the side chest hes actually STRECHING his hamstring apart giving the impression he has Smaller hamstrings than he actually had :( :( :( as Ive said many times Arnold was a very smart man for a number of reasons and in posing and presentation he was WAY ahead of the game in the somewhat more less informed generation of BBers (1960s-70s) compared to what we have now.
In the below picture (i know its 1975 however he was still in very good condition) you can see clearly a rare picture in terms of Arnold NOT rubbing the outside leg HARD up against the inside leg showing a more accurate picture (angle withstanding) of Arnold's some what sub-par Hamstrings compared to his Massive upper body.
I tried the side chest with my outside leg completely apart (e.g. not touching) my inside leg and was able to maintain perfect balance, so I'm not sure why you thought it would be impossible to do that. Either way, we both know a thing or two about the tricks used in posing, which will make this battle very interesting. One thing you may not know yet, is that the hamstrings look bigger when the upper leg is viewed from an angle slightly behind the body. The upper leg looks thicker because this angle shows more of the hamstrings. In a side pose, this equates to turning the knee more inward. Whether Arnold is actually pushing out the hamstrings is irrelavent, but the shot is taken from an angle slightly behind him, which shows more of the hamstrings. In the 1975 shot, it's taken from straight on, so even though his hamstrings aren't too bad there, they're not as thick as they could be, partly due to the angle.
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1972 Mr.Olympia.. backstage :D
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I tried the side chest with my outside leg completely apart (e.g. not touching) my inside leg and was able to maintain perfect balance, so I'm not sure why you thought it would be impossible to do that. Either way, we both know a thing or two about the tricks used in posing, which will make this battle very interesting. One thing you may not know yet, is that the hamstrings look bigger when the upper leg is viewed from an angle slightly behind the body. The upper leg looks thicker because this angle shows more of the hamstrings. In a side pose, this equates to turning the knee more inward. Whether Arnold is actually pushing out the hamstrings is irrelavent, but the shot is taken from an angle slightly behind him, which shows more of the hamstrings. In the 1975 shot, it's taken from straight on, so even though his hamstrings aren't too bad there, they're not as thick as they could be, partly due to the angle.
Your right about when viewed from the side the upper thigh/hamstring looks bigger especially on the angle and as for the balance issue ??? ??? its now quiet obvious my upper body was WAY too big for my Legs ;D ;D ... i just tryed it now (for the first time in 10yrs) and low and behold in this drastically difference physique i now have...you have got a point...however Arnold pushing out the hamstring is very relevant when his hamstrings (even at his best were never in proportion with his upper quads)...from personal experience having weak (compared to my upperbody) hamstrings i use to push the hell out of what hamstring mass i had on stage take a guess where from pictures i learnt that one from ;D ;D @ the end of the day all these little xtras do have relevance especially @ Arnold's level back in the day when things are real tight with the likes of Sergio etc were around...SERGIO 1973!!!!!!!!!
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That comparison really shows how far Arnold came in terms of upper leg development. He is absolutely destroying Sergo there in upper legs.
I think the best way to settle this is with a virtual bodybuilding contest. Arnold (1974) and Sergio (1972) being the only two competitors (when Zane, Nubret, and Ferrigno saw their competition, they ran for the hills.) Pics will decide who wins each round. We'll move onto the next round once we're all satisfied that enough angles have been covered.
Before we start, I want to see what your opinions are on using non-contest shots as a basis for comparison. I would rather keep it strictly to contest footage, as that's the truest form of comparing who would win in the shape they showed up at on contest day, but I'm open to suggestions. Once I get your opinions, we'll get this thing under way.
no way arnold beats sergio in legs don't know what your lookin at.
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Arnold also had the little habit ;D ;D ;D of standing a couple of paces in front of Sergio and twisting his body side on so there would be no-direct straight on comparison, and the judges would get a CLOSER look @ him, none of this is cheating of course just Arnold leaving no stone unturned, Sergio relied (it would seem) too much on his physique only and not all the pro's and con's of the PRESENTATION of the physique, speculation of course on my part but pictures seem to tell part of the story.
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Arnold also had the little habit ;D ;D ;D of standing a couple of paces in front of Sergio and twisting his body side on so there would be no-direct straight on comparison, and the judges would get a CLOSER look @ him
All of this is cute but is quite immaterial IMO. Weider's shows were never impartial, the fix was in. Sergio could've out-posed Schwarzenegger and the results still would have been the same.
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his hamstrings (even at his best were never in proportion with his upper quads
Even being a big Arnold fan, I do admit that they were not as proportionate as they could be. Most of the time, anyhow.
But since you said they were never in proportion, I have to disagree. Here are some great shots that show proportionate hammies and everything else looking pretty good, too!
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Arnold also had the little habit ;D ;D ;D of standing a couple of paces in front of Sergio and twisting his body side on so there would be no-direct straight on comparison, and the judges would get a CLOSER look @ him, none of this is cheating of course just Arnold leaving no stone unturned, Sergio relied (it would seem) too much on his physique only and not all the pro's and con's of the PRESENTATION of the physique, speculation of course on my part but pictures seem to tell part of the story.
When it came to posing, Arnold had alot of little habits. But that's why he's The King - he did whatever it took to improve his physique.
I agree about Sergio relying mostly on his physique. He knew how to hit certain poses extremely well, though. The front lat spread being a prime example.
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When it came to posing, Arnold had alot of little habits. But that's why he's The King - he did whatever it took to improve his physique.
I agree about Sergio relying mostly on his physique. He knew how to hit certain poses extremely well, though. The front lat spread being a prime example.
Hmmm...when i make references about Arnold obviously the way i word my posts are taken on board as a direct criticism of Arnold and his tactics...being straight up its not... Ive made references else where on other sites over the years about the same issues and most people have taken it as it was meant, nothing more than an observation and opinion, Arnold did do whatever was necessary at any cost to make sure he came out on top,(wether politics were a factor or not) as Ive said none of this is cheating just using his head, Ive also made the very valid point that there are hundreds and hundreds of Arnold pictures of him in great shape with perhaps 40-50 of Sergio in good shape... when all people have to go on is mainly pictures when comparing the 2 its really a moot point in Arnold's favour, so bloke's like me explain what i see in both their physiques....from a neutral point of view...because if i stuck to my SERGIO is better than Arnold pitch no matter what you or anyone else says...well it would be another truce thread that would never end no one wants to back down (for what ever stupid reason) and so the thread becomes personal with attacks on one other etc. (oh p.s... SERGIO > ARNOLD ;D ;D ;D)
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Here are some great shots that show proportionate hammies and everything else looking pretty good, too!
I think that first shot only proves that both the quads and hams were in most cases so-so in terms of size relative to upper body. The only reason it looks ok there is the angle.
The second shot there's good quad size but no indication of hams that balance.
That second pic, when he weighed more confirms my earlier comment, that essentially his thighs looks better when he was at heavier weights. When he lost weight it came off the thighs first and foremost.
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Joe and Sergio in happier times
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Hmmm...when i make references about Arnold obviously the way i word my posts are taken on board as a direct criticism of Arnold and his tactics...being straight up its not... Ive made references else where on other sites over the years about the same issues and most people have taken it as it was meant, nothing more than an observation and opinion, Arnold did do whatever was necessary at any cost to make sure he came out on top,(wether politics were a factor or not) as Ive said none of this is cheating just using his head, Ive also made the very valid point that there are hundreds and hundreds of Arnold pictures of him in great shape with perhaps 40-50 of Sergio in good shape... when all people have to go on is mainly pictures when comparing the 2 its really a moot point in Arnold's favour, so bloke's like me explain what i see in both their physiques....from a neutral point of view...because if i stuck to my SERGIO is better than Arnold pitch no matter what you or anyone else says...well it would be another truce thread that would never end no one wants to back down (for what ever stupid reason) and so the thread becomes personal with attacks on one other etc. (oh p.s... SERGIO > ARNOLD ;D ;D ;D)
I take what you mean literally, because you said it in a literal sense. You said at his best, his hammies were never in proportion, so I had to disagree since I had proof to dispute that. If I agreed, that would be like saying Sergio had a better biceps peak than Arnold, or that Arnold had a smaller waist than Sergio - which is untrue.
Trust me, I'm trying to be as neutral as I can, too. Nothing in this thread has been a personal attack on you and I DON'T want this to be a truce thread! The reason I made this thread is to finally see which competitor had the best overall physique in (what I thought was) our neutral opinions. Maybe ARNIE1974 should come on board with some comparisons, since he's probably watching this thread. ;)
If we agree that Arnold wins the side chest, then who wins the front double biceps?
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In that shot Arnold looks great probally one of his best FDB ever his legs look good as well.......Sergio in the picture below under the same studio lighting as Arnold would look out of this world...as it is he still looks unbelievable in the picture under NATURAL outside lighting not only size here but take a look @ the veins etc over SERGIOS quads etc.... :o :o :o
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That day in 1971 @ 5ft 10 and 106kg (233lbs) SERGIO was both MASSIVE and cut with veins over his whole body quads, calves, and back, i have a heap of not seen b4 pictures (well on the internet anyway) of that day witch of course ill hold off on til i start seeing other people putting up some new material, SERGIO FDB > ARNOLD 8)
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I take what you mean literally, because you said it in a literal sense. You said at his best, his hammies were never in proportion, so I had to disagree since I had proof to dispute that. If I agreed, that would be like saying Sergio had a better biceps peak than Arnold, or that Arnold had a smaller waist than Sergio - which is untrue.
Trust me, I'm trying to be as neutral as I can, too. Nothing in this thread has been a personal attack on you and I DON'T want this to be a truce thread! The reason I made this thread is to finally see which competitor had the best overall physique in (what I thought was) our neutral opinions. Maybe ARNIE1974 should come on board with some comparisons, since he's probably watching this thread. ;)
If we agree that Arnold wins the side chest, then who wins the front double biceps?
Missed read this post first time around...I agree on the Pictures that are CURRENTLY available that Arnold had a better side chest than SERGIO, as you know when comparing there physiques as in the Side-chest etc.. its not just the chest we are comparing, its the whole physique in that pose (eg: Arnold may have a bigger chest, however if its out of proportion with the BALANCE and flow of the rest of the criteria for the pose as in shoulder tie ins, legs, waist etc) thats a different story, the pictures that are available as of NOW yes Arnold side chest > SERGIO :( :( :(
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As i said earlier, there's a natural bias thanks to the dearth of good Sergio shots when he was in his best condition. For example, an absence of double-bi shots in comparable lighting/setting to Arnold's good ones, taken when Oliva was at his best.
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Both guys are about as thick as eachother. This one seems to come down to your preference of mass vs. cuts; as Sergio has thicker quads/hams, but Arnold has much better cuts and separation through the quads/hams, arms and torso. Tough one to call.
There must be some good studio shots of Sergio from '68-'70, when he was still Mr. Olympia and getting publicity. It would make for a much better comparison. Sergio looks borderline soft here.
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Both guys are about as thick as eachother. This one seems to come down to your preference of mass vs. cuts; as Sergio has thicker quads/hams, but Arnold has much better cuts and separation through the quads/hams, arms and torso. Tough one to call.
There must be some good studio shots of Sergio from '68-'70, when he was still Mr. Olympia and getting publicity. It would make for a much better comparison. Sergio looks borderline soft here.
Nice work and comparison bud, i don,t agree on the borderline soft thing @ all, remember this picture was taken outside under NATURAL sunlight witch 85% of the time wash's out the finer details etc in the physique depending on time of the day etc, as i mentioned you can see clearly SERGIO"S vein's, cuts, etc even in these conditions and does not have the advantage of studio SET lighting witch is designed specally to HIGHLIGHT the cuts, details,lines etc ...as Arnold has in this FDB, Sergio under that same setup as Arnold in my view would look unbelievable.
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Nice work and comparison bud, i don,t agree on the borderline soft thing @ all, remember this picture was taken outside under NATURAL sunlight witch 85% of the time wash's out the finer details etc in the physique depending on time of the day etc, as i mentioned you can see clearly SERGIO"S vein's, cuts, etc even in these conditions and does not have the advantage of studio SET lighting witch is designed specally to HIGHLIGHT the cuts, details,lines etc ...as Arnold has in this FDB, Sergio under that same setup as Arnold in my view would look unbelievable.
Good point about the lighting. Hopefully someone will be able to find equal lighting conditions of Sergio.
I know for a fact that Jimmy Caruso did do a photoshoot with Sergio around the time of his Olympia wins, so there should be more from that shoot. I expect there are other studio shots of Sergio out there somewhere. If anyone has them, please post. We want to see the best that each guy - especially Sergio - has to offer!
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Yes after SERGIO was beaten bye Arnold for the second time @ the 1970 O, the absence of GOOD studio photos of a PRIME 1971-73 Oliva are pretty scarce, the ones that are available - pre 1970, like this common shot of SERGIO from the 1967 MR WORLD ;D ;D ;D of course @ that stage his physique with the exception of lines and balance would not be comparable with a prime Schwarzenegger
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Both guys are about as thick as eachother. This one seems to come down to your preference of mass vs. cuts; as Sergio has thicker quads/hams, but Arnold has much better cuts and separation through the quads/hams, arms and torso. Tough one to call.
There must be some good studio shots of Sergio from '68-'70, when he was still Mr. Olympia and getting publicity. It would make for a much better comparison. Sergio looks borderline soft here.
As i pointed out, it's not a fair comparison due to the lack of good sergio shots. Ya, I'm sure there are plenty of old Weider shots, that remain inaccessible to the public but they were taken earlier, not when he was at his peak size and shape.
Essentially you have a 1960s Oliva and a 1970s Oliva that were quite different. Both equally great for their eras, but quite the difference.
Also you had the 60s tendency to apply too much oil, that didn't help. Less of a natural look.
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Sergio impresses me alot in the above 1967 studio photo, but since Johnny is holding out on us with those rare prime Sergio shots, it's about all we have to go by.
In the meantime, here are probably the two best FDB comparisons in terms of both being under the same lighting conditions.
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I declare this thread a draw and hereby dedicate it to The Austrian Oak and The Myth.
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Arnold 1973 MR OLYMPIA.....SERGIO 1973 MR INTERNATIONAL
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Oliva's almost total lack of upper arm detail is always disappointing; it takes away from the fact that his arms, overall musculature and tapers were on a relative basis better than Arnold's. If his arms and physique overall had muscle maturity and more refinement, i think it would be easier to say he had an edge. His shortcomings there countered his clear advantages in other aspects mentioned above. It's only in the occasional pic in his very best shape that you see any hint of detail. Arnold went much further and acquired great muscle maturity and refinement in '73, Sergio did not. Oliva says now that in hindsight it would have been better for him to have continued training with Arthur Jones; having someone push him made a big difference, clearly.
A great BB should do everything possible to address deficiencies, as Arnold did to bring up his calves and get real lean in '73 especially. I don't think Sergio went that extra mile with arms especially and his physique in general, in large part because it seemed that he didn't have the diet discipline and attention to detail required re: exercises to bring out more muscle maturity and refinement.
You could say the same about Arnold's thigh size, but i think it was genetic because they were in fact fairly large when he was at higher bodyweights, and seemed to be the first thing to shrink when he got leaner. Given that limitation, he did the right thing by focusing on getting them really cut and by drawing attention away from their shortcomings with great calves and posing.
I always give Arnold a slight edge now, based on having gone that extra mile to address the small things that make a difference when it's close, in '73 and '74.
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Alot of Pumpsters post rings true however I feel Sergio DID in fact reach a high level of Muscle maturity well for his physique anyway...unfortunately it wasn,t dueing his PRIME years and that coupled with his obvious discipline issues with diet etc didn,t showcase a PRIME oliva with that maturity, it wasn,t if he hadn,t had enough years under his belt with lifting heavy weights etc, starting off as a weightlifter in the early 1960s so one can only suspect Sergio not paying attention too detail, preparation, diet etc is the reason for this :( :( :( its difficult to find alot of great pictures of SERGIO with alot of arm size and separation however the day below he posed @ the beach i feel shows him with that Muscle Maturity, refinement (especially in the arms and legs the 2 areas he most neglected in his prime years in terms of refinement, detail) That sort of detail on a 1970-1973 Oliva would (in a non-bais) BB competition would of been damn near unbeatable back then.
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The 1971 Mr Universe line up square off against the 1972 Mr Olympia line up!....Sergio 1971 to Sergio 1972... "what da hell you looking @ punk?...Sergio 1972 to Sergio 1971..."Looks like a fat Fu.k to me"!!! ;)
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For some reason Arnie seems to disapear when he raises his arms, he looks great in a crab pose but when he lifts his arms it all seems to fade away. Could be because he is so tall I guess.
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Between these two multi-Olympians, who was the better bodybuilder when it's all said and done?
Arnold is the better bodybuilder of the two , Sergio had a better structure and genetics although that wasn't enough
Arnold more complete , better conditioning , more developed .
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Epic Arnold ball-wash. It's easy to claim all these things after the fact, reality is he wasn't totally ready in '72 and wasn't willing to come out of the audience at the International either.
You're a liar and keep pushing this nonsense that Arnold was scared ::) Sergio did issue a challenge to Arnold , he wanted to accept Weider told him NOT to , Arnold was a couple of weeks out from the Olympia and wasn't 100% contest ready Sergio was , Joe invited Sergio to face Arnold at the Olympia HE REFUSED ;)
Franco accepted Sergio's challenge as posed with him and the promoter of the sport held both their hands up which is the sign for a tie with Franco
fact Sergio lost 3 times previously to Arnold and one to Bill Pearl , so keep propagating this myth Arnold was scared to compete , Sergio was scared to face Arnold at the Olympia
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There wasn't that much difference dude, which is why the rivalry was so great. The rivalry was killed by Joe Weider, not by fair competition all through the early-mid 70s. Not much to do with Arnold's "intellect" actually, just as most of Arnold's rhetoric about "psyching out opponents" wasn't true but sounds great and is believed by many to this day.
More bullshit by GetBig's resident moron Arnold stories of psyching out competitors is a fact like the time he and Sergio were trading shots and he motioned to Sergio they were both done , Sergio walked off stage while Arnold motioned to the crowd ' where's he going ' indicating Sergio had given up , old school Arnold being the dick he was and it worked , same with telling jokes to Frank Zane in 1980 right before he was about to hit a mandatory so he'd be laughing his ass off , there are many more examples should I continue to embarrass you?
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You're a liar and keep pushing this nonsense that Arnold was scared ::) Sergio did issue a challenge to Arnold , he wanted to accept Weider told him NOT to , Arnold was a couple of weeks out from the Olympia and wasn't 100% contest ready Sergio was , Joe invited Sergio to face Arnold at the Olympia HE REFUSED ;)
Franco accepted Sergio's challenge as posed with him and the promoter of the sport held both their hands up which is the sign for a tie with Franco
fact Sergio lost 3 times previously to Arnold and one to Bill Pearl , so keep propagating this myth Arnold was scared to compete , Sergio was scared to face Arnold at the Olympia
BITCH MELTDOWN
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Arnold is the better bodybuilder of the two , Sergio had a better structure and genetics although that wasn't enough
Arnold more complete , better conditioning , more developed .
Reiterating everything i've already pointed out LOL I was the first one to post some of A's better pics on Iron Age, the dumbasses didn't know any better. :D
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More bullshit by GetBig's resident moron Arnold stories of psyching out competitors is a fact like the time he and Sergio were trading shots and he motioned to Sergio they were both done , Sergio walked off stage while Arnold motioned to the crowd ' where's he going ' indicating Sergio had given up , old school Arnold being the dick he was and it worked , same with telling jokes to Frank Zane in 1980 right before he was about to hit a mandatory so he'd be laughing his ass off , there are many more examples should I continue to embarrass you?
That's one example only, you stupid fvck, hardly the general trend sheep like you believe.
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ND once sucked Arnies tool
True story!! ;D
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ND once sucked Arnies tool
True story!! ;D
I don't doubt it! This is from ND the shmoe's huge private collection of oiled white BBs that was previously posted, a shot of Yates' nutz LOL what an embarassment. ;D
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BITCH MELTDOWN
yeah I thought so ;) you're busted in an outright lie and have no cognizant reply to offer
Fact Arnold wasn't scared of Sergio , he wanted to go up onstage < Weider said NO , Sergio want to see who's better he's invited to the Olympia which he refused , you keep pushing this lie Arnold was scared , scared of what? he already had 3 wins over Sergio and Sergio lost to Bill Pearl in a NON-IFBB contest so you can't claim Joe Weider and politics either
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That's one example only, you stupid fvck, hardly the general trend sheep like you believe.
That's two examples moron needless to say there are many more including Ferrigno and Franco shall I continue?
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Reiterating everything i've already pointed out LOL I was the first one to post some of A's better pics on Iron Age, the dumbasses didn't know any better. :D
yeah okay ::) you're an ignorant moron who claims Arnold only won because he's white on many occasions and you only posted pics of your Bowflex on Ironage ;)
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I don't doubt it! This is from ND the shmoe's huge private collection of oiled white BBs that was previously posted, a shot of Yates' nutz LOL what an embarassment. ;D
You're the moron who's posted this pic numerous times it's obviously saved to your harddrive how ironic you claim your behavior runs rampant in others
Here's a quote from you referring to men in drag as ' gorgeous ' your words lol what kind of man posts pictures of mens balls and refers to other men dressed like women in drag as ' gorgeous ' ? I think we all know lol
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ND's mid-life crisis in full swing haahhahahahaahahaha
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ND's mid-life crisis in full swing haahhahahahaahahaha
Typical pumpster can't stick to the topic and can't offer up a cognizant retort ;) thanks for playing
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you only posted pics of your Bowflex on Ironage ;)
LOL! :D
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Here's a quote from you referring to men in drag as ' gorgeous ' your words lol what kind of man posts pictures of mens balls and refers to other men dressed like women in drag as ' gorgeous ' ? I think we all know lol
LMAO!
So let me get this right, ND. This tool, "pumpster", who tells me I don't workout, is the same tool who not only owns a Bowflex, but considers men in drag as gorgeous...
Wow! That's all I have to say. :D
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LMAO!
So let me get this right, ND. This tool, "pumpster", who tells me I don't workout, is the same tool who not only owns a Bowflex, but considers men in drag as gorgeous...
Wow! That's all I have to say. :D
Yup that's his words untouched lol he refers to other men in drag as ' gorgeous ' maybe those trannies he finds so gorgeous play with his powerods lmao
he once challenged me to a Boxflex bench off lol he claims 400 pounds on the BowFlex is the same as free weights ::)
He also claimed Arnold only beat Sergio & Serge because he was white and handpicked by the Weiders
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Yup that's his words untouched lol he refers to other men in drag as ' gorgeous ' maybe those trannies he finds so gorgeous play with his powerods lmao
Â
That wouldn't surprise me. Afterall, this is pumpster we're talking about. LOL!
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he once challenged me to a Boxflex bench off lol he claims 400 pounds on the BowFlex is the same as free weights ::)Â
LMAO!
PLEASE tell me you're kidding! Hahaha...
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LMAO!
PLEASE tell me you're kidding! Hahaha...
Oh absolutely he thinks that's an accomplishment 400 pounds I mean powerods of resistance ::) he's deathly afraid to post the end result of his Bowflex body geee I wonder why
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"Hey Arnold nice looking ::)"flare"::) to ya Quads baby"..."SERGIO, you should shut ya mouth, you got da angle and in about a hour ill retire as a 6 time Olympia Champion... ;) ;) ;)
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pumpster, how come you're quiet now? :D
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pumpster, how come you're quiet now? :D
lmfao he's to busy looking for guys nuttsack pics on his hardrive to post
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lmfao he's to busy looking for guys nuttsack pics on his hardrive to post
"Gorgeous" guys, at that. LOL! :D
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1969 Sergio Studio vs 1974 Arnold Studio.
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The Pose Arnold made his own.. ;)
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The Pose Arnold made his own.. ;)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=254211.0;attach=298523;image)
Which made for a great cover for Wag's Peak Muscle Maker magazine. 8)
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Which made for a great cover for Wag's Peak Muscle Maker magazine. 8)
Correct ;D ;D ;D
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ND & and "pollux" are currently getbig's finest schmoe power-couple when it comes to vast libraries of oiled white guys in thongs............ :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Schmoe double-bis in da house! :-* :-* :-* :-*
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FYI ND's a laughing stock on g&o, he and "pollux" are currently getbig's finest schmoe power-couple when it comes to vast libraries of oiled white guys in thongs............ :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
It's official, ND. We got under pumpster's skin. That was easy. ;D
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It's official, ND. We got under pumpster's skin. That was easy. ;D
Didn't read it haahahah nice try.. :-* :-* When will you start training for the first time in your life groupie? LOL
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And doesn't one who thinks men in drag are "gorgeous" takes priority as a schmoe? :D
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Didn't read it haahahah nice try.. :-* :-*
Of course you didn't. ::)
Nice try...
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And doesn't one who thinks men in drag are "gorgeous" takes priority as a schmoe? :D
Actually the troll who would take the time to find that looks like..
Now that the 2 girls are back to hijack the thread, i'm out.. ;D
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pumpster, you're freakin' out. You keep modifying your posts. :D
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pumpster, you're freakin' out. You keep modifying your posts. :D
Um,, that's what the "edit" function's for ya blockhead.
Later girls... :-*
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Sergio's back @ the 72 show was impressive..
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In 1975 Arnold's back was outstanding.
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It's amazing the condition Arnold attained given the short time he had to get ready for the '75 Olympia.
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It's official, ND. We got under pumpster's skin. That was easy. ;D
I owned his mind eons ago it's easy , after my sister died he started his nonsense and wished I were dead instead of my sister , talk about meltdowns lol Ron had to have a talk to him about that one
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Actually the troll who would take the time to find that looks like..
Now that the 2 girls are back to hijack the thread, i'm out.. ;D
The only thing you're out of is the closet ;)
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In 1975 Arnold's back was outstanding.
It was
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Arnold 1970 ;)
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Mass Monsters 70s Style
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sergio had more potential arnold more refinement . and want power maybe
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Between these two multi-Olympians, who was the better bodybuilder when it's all said and done?
very very difficult to say......... I would give the governor the edge because of conditioning...... sergio just wasn't as peeled as arnie.
when you look at sergio's victory pose, you think to yourself that he may be the best ever...... but when you see arnie in his double bicep, you think damn arnie may be the greatest...... it is close.... but I'll say arnie because he was shredded and sergio wasn't.
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It was
look at how lean arnie's back is in that shot from 1975.
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very very difficult to say......... I would give the governor the edge because of conditioning...... sergio just wasn't as peeled as arnie.
when you look at sergio's victory pose, you think to yourself that he may be the best ever...... but when you see arnie in his double bicep, you think damn arnie may be the greatest...... it is close.... but I'll say arnie because he was shredded and sergio wasn't.
Yeah arnold always had the condationing factor over Sergio and sergio seemed to lose alittle size when he did come in ripped, however Sergio in my veiw had more total balance than arnold, arnolds huge calves and shredded quads seemed to make up for his lack of Hamstring size and his very smart angles in his twisting poses limited his exsposure for direct front on veiws of his somewhat wide hip waist structure while a peak sergio had somewhat flat biceps and his back in the BDB pose wasn,t on par with Arnolds BDB in terms of condationing, lower back etc...
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Mass Monsters 70s Style
Sergio looks amazing in this photo!! :o
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Between these two multi-Olympians, who was the better bodybuilder when it's all said and done?
Sergio without a doubt , its such a shame because if he wasnt screwed so much by the weiders he would have been mr olympia from 72 on , after that ' loss ' he lost all motivation such a shame :-\
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YES OLIVA . BETTER ARMS . . BUT HIS SKIN WAS ....
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this is a tough question to answer.......because both men were built so well.
arnie had better arms......sergio had very impressive guns but arnie's arms had better shape.
arnie had the better chest......while sergio had better shoulders.......obviousl y sergio had better legs......but arnie had those insane calves.
i will say both men had great back development......but i give the nod to arnie because his back appeared to have greater width.
arnie was able to pose and present his physique better than the myth.
they are neck and neck in my book.
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arnold forearms were a bit weak so were his thighs . and triceps . sergio lat spread was more impressive than arnold too . arnold won because he had tricks in his book . psychological warfare like 1972 when they posed against a black wall at arnie request . arnold the wisest so to speak .. but he could not do that today .
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nah.....the guys today look like hammered shit!
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yet they call that evolution .
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yet they call that evolution .
lol
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the myth was amazing . some say the color of his skin was the problem . it was late 60 early 70 .s i dont know
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arnold forearms were a bit weak so were his thighs . and triceps . sergio lat spread was more impressive than arnold too . arnold won because he had tricks in his book . psychological warfare like 1972 when they posed against a black wall at arnie request . arnold the wisest so to speak .. but he could not do that today .
I think his thighs were perfect for his era, and i watched a programme years ago about when he lived in the UK. It showed home shot footage of him when he lived with Wag Bennett and he was hitting something he called the preying mantis pose to show off his forearms and they looked more impressive than in any picture ive seen. Calves also were outstanding but the biggest knock ive seen on AS was his tricep mass (or lack of).
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:) he was huge as a youngun. he later went with more refinement. had he stayed in europe ???????????????
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Agreed. Younger Arnold pics he look huge compared to his more refined shape. If he decided on mass alone, instead of bein cut, he wouldve dwarfed Sergio easily! It only looks close because Arnold was ripped
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Oh absolutely he thinks that's an accomplishment 400 pounds I mean powerods of resistance ::) he's deathly afraid to post the end result of his Bowflex body geee I wonder why
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THIS might be him, went from over 300lb, to still only 13" fatceps!!!!