Author Topic: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan  (Read 2068 times)

Primemuscle

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2021, 01:42:03 PM »
I'm sure the IRS Commissioner said $600.  I quoted and linked his comments.

Maybe there is a mix up. The Washington Examiner's article says transactions as does this tread title. However, the body of the article reads accounts 'holding' over $600. Other articles about this also say transactions. So I am not sure which is correct or if it makes any difference.

If you draw a regular paycheck it's pretty hard to cheat on your taxes. The IRS knows how much you make because it's right there on your W-2 or in my situation, 1099R forms. The IRS has much less information on people who own businesses or rental properties or have other sources of income.

The $600. threshold doesn't seem feasible to me or apparently to the banks since they have commented negatively about it. Supposedly, the IRS is understaffed. If they don't have enough employees to efficiently process income tax now, adding this....well, it just doesn't seem possible for them to handle.

Dos Equis

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2021, 11:02:36 PM »
Maybe there is a mix up. The Washington Examiner's article says transactions as does this tread title. However, the body of the article reads accounts 'holding' over $600. Other articles about this also say transactions. So I am not sure which is correct or if it makes any difference.

If you draw a regular paycheck it's pretty hard to cheat on your taxes. The IRS knows how much you make because it's right there on your W-2 or in my situation, 1099R forms. The IRS has much less information on people who own businesses or rental properties or have other sources of income.

The $600. threshold doesn't seem feasible to me or apparently to the banks since they have commented negatively about it. Supposedly, the IRS is understaffed. If they don't have enough employees to efficiently process income tax now, adding this....well, it just doesn't seem possible for them to handle.

It's only confusing if you want it to be.  I posted the comments from the IRS Commissioner.  I posted comments from the Treasury Secretary.  They both said the same thing:  it applies to balances and transactions. 

This is a massive government overreach and invasion of privacy. 

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2021, 06:57:29 AM »
Maybe there is a mix up. The Washington Examiner's article says transactions as does this tread title. However, the body of the article reads accounts 'holding' over $600. Other articles about this also say transactions. So I am not sure which is correct or if it makes any difference.

If you draw a regular paycheck it's pretty hard to cheat on your taxes. The IRS knows how much you make because it's right there on your W-2 or in my situation, 1099R forms. The IRS has much less information on people who own businesses or rental properties or have other sources of income.

The $600. threshold doesn't seem feasible to me or apparently to the banks since they have commented negatively about it. Supposedly, the IRS is understaffed. If they don't have enough employees to efficiently process income tax now, adding this....well, it just doesn't seem possible for them to handle.


Willful ignorance, level 100. Data mining isn't people aren't sitting in cubicles looking at papers FFS.

Again, they are only asking permission for things they've been doing for a long time. Everything is about data collection and how it is being used is not beneficial to anyone but those in power - and we willfully provide it all. We traded privacy for ease of use and "protection from evil sand people".

HTH

Primemuscle

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2021, 12:51:11 PM »

Willful ignorance, level 100. Data mining isn't people aren't sitting in cubicles looking at papers FFS.

Again, they are only asking permission for things they've been doing for a long time. Everything is about data collection and how it is being used is not beneficial to anyone but those in power - and we willfully provide it all. We traded privacy for ease of use and "protection from evil sand people".

HTH

Nobody said data mining required hoards of IRS employees. The implication is that any single bank transaction of $600 or more would trigger further investigation. Just how that investigation is handled isn't clear. Currently, only 1% of Americans get audited a year. The majority of those who are audited are people in a higher income bracket, although anyone can be audited. The IRS claims it is currently understaffed. Unless the $600 trigger has no impact on the number of audits requiring human interaction, there would be a need for additional staff. 

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2021, 01:26:20 PM »
Nobody said data mining required hoards of IRS employees. The implication is that any single bank transaction of $600 or more would trigger further investigation. Just how that investigation is handled isn't clear. Currently, only 1% of Americans get audited a year. The majority of those who are audited are people in a higher income bracket, although anyone can be audited. The IRS claims it is currently understaffed. Unless the $600 trigger has no impact on the number of audits requiring human interaction, there would be a need for additional staff.



You think this is just for the purpose of an IRS audit?


IroNat

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2021, 01:30:44 PM »
It's unlikely a $600 transaction will trigger an audit.  It's info that could be utilized in case of an audit.

Dos Equis

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2021, 05:35:59 AM »

Soul Crusher

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Dos Equis

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2021, 10:23:45 PM »
Democrats to scale back Treasury’s IRS bank reporting plan amid GOP uproar
Jeff Stein 
October 19, 2021

Senate Democrats on Tuesday will unveil a scaled-back version of a Biden administration proposal to crack down on wealthy tax cheats after conservative groups and the bank industry raised major privacy concerns, three people with knowledge of the coming announcement said.

Initially, the Department of Treasury and Senate Democrats had proposed requiring financial institutions to provide the Internal Revenue Service with additional information on bank accounts with more than $600 in annual deposits or withdrawals.

After a backlash, the new proposal will instead require the provision of additional information for accounts with more than $10,000 in annual deposits or withdrawals, a measure Democrats have been considering for weeks but have not formally endorsed, the people said.

The revised version of the bank reporting proposal will also weaken its scope by exempting all wage income from counting toward the $10,000 threshold withdrawal, intending to ensure it applies to only larger account holders, the people said. The Biden administration has signed off on the changes and is expected to support the new plan, a potentially key source of new revenue to pay for Democrats’ multi-trillion-dollar economic package. The people spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a matter not yet made public.

The weakening of the reporting requirements reflects Democrats’ sensitivity to the increasingly explosive politics of the issue as Republicans, conservative groups and industry lobbyists attempted to label the initial proposal as representing a major expansion of snooping by the IRS into taxpayers’ private information. Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen has adamantly rejected this criticism, arguing the new reporting rules amount to an essentially technical set of changes that will only impact wealthy tax evaders. But even many Democrats privately concede that the proposal gave Republicans an opening to attack them on the issue, provoking a fury of opposition among conservative groups.

Treasury Dept. and IRS push House Democrats to expand crackdown on tax cheats
Banks already report to the IRS information for the interest earned in their customers’ accounts. (Stockbrokers also already report dividends and capital gains of their customers to the IRS.) Treasury’s proposal is aimed at requiring banks to also report total deposits and withdrawals to the IRS as well. The totals would be reported once a year — not every time a transaction above a certain number has occurred.

The provision is aimed at giving the IRS more visibility into the cash flow of the bank’s customers, especially businesses. Wage earners, who represent the vast majority of the American public, already have their wages reported to the IRS on their W-2 forms. Treasury wants additional data for Americans earning business income as well, although exactly which accounts should be subject to the new rules has been the subject of a fierce debate.

White House officials believe that the IRS could better target tax evasion if they have access to the way money flows in and out of accounts.

“I don’t know why they thought $600 would be a good number. $10,000 is definitely an improvement,” said John Koskinen, who served as commissioner of the IRS under both President Barack Obama and President Donald Trump. Koskinen said the threshold should be raised even higher to a number like $50,000. “The vast majority of people won’t be affected, but it will pick up more than just the idle rich.”

Democratic aides in both the House and Senate are still skeptical whether the bank reporting requirement will be included in the final version of Biden’s Build Back Better package, even with the changes. Democrats supportive of the proposal have pointed out that well-funded business lobbyists and Republican lawmakers have mounted an all-out campaign against the measure that has sometimes exaggerated or outright fabricated the extent of the changes. But opposition to the measure is not limited to Wall Street, and has extended to community banks influential with much of the congressional Democratic caucus.

Republican attorneys general in more than a dozen states have written Biden and Yellen saying the plan is “unacceptable, illegal, and contrary to the well-founded constitutional principles against illegal searches and seizures.”

Sens. Mike Crapo (R-Idaho) and Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.), the top Republicans on the finance and banking committees, have led the charge on the plan and are expected to hold a news conference about it on Tuesday. Senate Finance Chair Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) are involved in the revised bank reporting proposal.

“I think [Democrats are] still likely to not get much traction with this,” said Doug Holtz-Eakin, a Republican policy expert formerly at the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

Conservative groups mount opposition to increase in IRS budget, threatening White House infrastructure plan
The bank reporting requirement emerged as part of the Biden administration’s wider effort to crack down on wealthy tax cheats and bring in more revenue as a way to fund the president’s infrastructure and social spending packages. Biden has pledged to shield Americans earning less than $400,000 per year from new tax hikes, instead focusing on raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans and large corporations. The proposals to raise taxes on the rich, however, have struggled to gain traction in Congress, with centrist Democrats balking at leveling the extent of new tax hikes necessary to fund Biden’s proposal.

The difficulty in raising taxes has fueled lawmakers’ interest in closing the “tax gap,” or the difference between what taxpayers owe the IRS and what is actually collected in new revenue. Treasury has said the tax gap amounts to roughly $7 trillion over 10 years. Estimates by Treasury officials have found that roughly $160 billion goes unpaid in taxes by the richest 1 percent of taxpayers every year.

“High-income individuals with opaque sources of income that are not reported to the IRS. There’s a lot of tax fraud and cheating that’s going on, and all that’s involved in this proposal is a few aggregate numbers about bank accounts — the amount that was received in the course of the year, the amount that went out in the course of a year,” Yellen told CBS earlier this month.

Some nonpartisan tax experts have questioned whether the Biden plan would effectively raise as much revenue as Yellen has claimed. Most rich Americans are able to lower their payments to the IRS by hiring advisers who aggressively exploit loopholes in the existing tax laws, said Steve Rosenthal, a tax policy expert at the Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan think tank. Democrats need to rewrite the tax laws to make it harder for rich Americans to legally lower their tax payments, Rosenthal said, arguing that the Treasury plan was more likely to lead to more paperwork for the government and a more aggressive crackdown on small businesses such as corner grocery stores and dry cleaners.

“I think it’s a step in the right direction, but I don’t think it will help much. It’s still a deeply flawed proposal,” Rosenthal said. “Even at $10,000, the Biden bank proposal is still too sweeping, throws a net very wide, and it’s hard to see what fish they want to catch here.”

Treasury officials have rejected that claim, saying the administration will limit its enforcement action to wealthier taxpayers.

“Any additional IRS scrutiny will be focused on the high end of the income distribution, where it belongs, given the distribution of the tax gap,” said Natasha Sarin, deputy assistant secretary for economic policy at Treasury. “In fact, audit rates will not rise relative to recent years for anyone making less than $400,000 per year.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-to-scale-back-treasury-e2-80-99s-irs-bank-reporting-plan-amid-gop-uproar/ar-AAPFE2r?ocid=uxbndlbing

Soul Crusher

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2021, 01:50:42 AM »
Democrats can all go to fng hell. 

Dos Equis

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2021, 05:33:35 PM »
Good job Senator Manchin.

Manchin: I Convinced Biden That IRS Monitoring $600 Bank Transactions Is "Screwed Up" And Won't Be In The Final Bill
Posted By Tim Hains
On Date October 26, 2021
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/10/26/manchin_i_convinced_biden_that_irs_monitoring_600_bank_transactions_is_screwed_up_and_wont_be_in_the_final_bill.html

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2021, 05:39:10 PM »
Good job Senator Manchin.

Manchin: I Convinced Biden That IRS Monitoring $600 Bank Transactions Is "Screwed Up" And Won't Be In The Final Bill
Posted By Tim Hains
On Date October 26, 2021
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/10/26/manchin_i_convinced_biden_that_irs_monitoring_600_bank_transactions_is_screwed_up_and_wont_be_in_the_final_bill.html


Manchin is playing good cop while the dems act like they are trying to deliver what they promised the radical left. Manchin is in no danger politically and you notice the squad is not calling for him to leave the party.

Dos Equis

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2021, 05:47:48 PM »

Manchin is playing good cop while the dems act like they are trying to deliver what they promised the radical left. Manchin is in no danger politically and you notice the squad is not calling for him to leave the party.

I do not trust him overall, but he got this one right.  He did admit the other day that he was thinking about leaving the party, but that he would still caucus with Democrats if he did leave. 

Soul Crusher

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TheGrinch

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2021, 09:08:51 AM »
Wake me when 50% of the country has pitchforks and torches....


otherwise.... stop freakin complaining about crap online..


its useless



Dos Equis

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2021, 12:12:37 PM »
Wake me when 50% of the country has pitchforks and torches....


otherwise.... stop freakin complaining about crap online..


its useless

Stop freakin telling us to stop complaining about crap online.

It's useless.   :)

Coach is Back!

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Re: IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2021, 09:24:14 AM »
This is more of a foot in the door to target the poor and middle class to gain access to their accounts more than anything. Doesn’t seem logical to set a number as low as $600