Author Topic: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle  (Read 10071 times)

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #75 on: April 27, 2024, 11:32:39 PM »
You realize estradiol is estrogen how are you taking gear and thinking taking estradiol is a good idea do you want to guarantee gyno? Of course the cattle get bigger adding estrogen do you think it gives hard Quality gains or water and bitch tits?

Like joswift said they are taking it for health. And basically only when they are experimenting with a nonestrogenic anabolic like Primo ran solo. Some just run a baseline 200mg of test mostly for estrogen when they do this, but now, for some reason, some forego any test at all and instead do actual supplemental estrogen to compensate. Maybe an interesting thing to try just to see what happens.

Though estrogen has muscle anabolic effects in itself. In fact even in Duchaine's time they experimented with an estrogenic product called Zeranol (Ralgro)(banned in sport). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeranol

People also think estrogens are uniquely associated with water retention, forgetting all anabolic/androgenic steroids can cause water retention even if there is no estrogenic component. If I'm not mistaken estrogens affect fat distribution more, interestingly if menopausal women are given estrogen they lose bodyfat, especially belly fat.

You need some estrogen for proper GH and IGF-1 function and many other growth associated pathways.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #76 on: April 27, 2024, 11:41:24 PM »
Is Brad the scrawny old guy on the right?  ???

Yea. At times I've seen where he's said he is growing a lot, which never happened in his life. There's NOTHING wrong with being a scrawny guy or having bad genetics per se, and you can still know what you're talking about (see Lyle McDonald). But this guy doing studies on failure training when he is unable to train to failure ever himself, well... he is part of a circle jerk in the the fitness community, which includes Layne Norton, who boost each others social media presence and overlook problems in their research methodologies. Lyle has declared war on this group lol. Like Brad was conducting studies on training volume as related to muscle fiber size and Brad was measuring the fibers himself, and when pointed out the problems with this said, "you can trust me." They would never accept such from any other researcher, but Brad is a "bro."

No one EVER said Lyle doesn't know what he's talking about, he has a towering presence in the "evidence based" weight lifting community, he's the OG above all. They get away with ignoring him saying he's crazy (he's admitted bipolar). I love the guy, even if at times I would've wanted to strangle his scrawny neck, if it weren't for guys like this there would be no one at all to keep anyone honest and accountable.

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #77 on: April 28, 2024, 05:59:12 AM »
Wait so the gakic nitrotech and celltech stack isnt whats getting guys onto the olympia stage?...fawk

bhank

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #78 on: April 28, 2024, 06:13:23 AM »
I'm not sure which part of my post you disagree with exactly. Leg extensions is one exercise where many do go to failure because it's safe to do so as well as not as taxing as presses/squats. Doing high rep warmups is something I have done as well if I have an achy or injured part, 50-100 reps. Yeah, doing such high reps on leg ext is probably not the best growth stimulus.

I am making an extreme example to make a point several sets near failure are going to create a better anabolic response than one set to failure

bhank

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2024, 06:16:13 AM »
Do you know its not good for you if your estrogen gets too low?

No, of course you dont, maybe thats why you were a fat kunt at your show

If you are taking aromatizing compounds your estrogen is not going to get too low. Yes I am well aware estrogen and water retention is anabolic you are the one who has been denying that. When we talk about getting too low we are talking about dudes taking tons of anti-estrogens not guys not supplementing with additional estrogen. There is nothing written on these subjects I have not read.

bhank

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #80 on: April 28, 2024, 06:18:19 AM »
Like joswift said they are taking it for health. And basically only when they are experimenting with a nonestrogenic anabolic like Primo ran solo. Some just run a baseline 200mg of test mostly for estrogen when they do this, but now, for some reason, some forego any test at all and instead do actual supplemental estrogen to compensate. Maybe an interesting thing to try just to see what happens.

Though estrogen has muscle anabolic effects in itself. In fact even in Duchaine's time they experimented with an estrogenic product called Zeranol (Ralgro)(banned in sport). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeranol

People also think estrogens are uniquely associated with water retention, forgetting all anabolic/androgenic steroids can cause water retention even if there is no estrogenic component. If I'm not mistaken estrogens affect fat distribution more, interestingly if menopausal women are given estrogen they lose bodyfat, especially belly fat.

You need some estrogen for proper GH and IGF-1 function and many other growth associated pathways.

I used to do the pellet conversions myself 20 years ago well aware of Ralgro. The thing is they add estrogen to the implants to make cattle bigger and so people won't take them. There is a ton of estrogen in those implants guys who take them with the estrogen are going to have problems. Even guys that were trying to separate out the estrogen were still getting too much.

Will you blow up increasing your estrogen? Absolutely that is why I don't take anti estrogens on a regular basis the coccoon is real. However, you are getting plenty of that just not taking anti estrogens you don't need to add additional estrogen just don't take Anti estrogens

dj181

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #81 on: April 28, 2024, 06:37:11 AM »
Like joswift said they are taking it for health. And basically only when they are experimenting with a nonestrogenic anabolic like Primo ran solo. Some just run a baseline 200mg of test mostly for estrogen when they do this, but now, for some reason, some forego any test at all and instead do actual supplemental estrogen to compensate. Maybe an interesting thing to try just to see what happens.

Though estrogen has muscle anabolic effects in itself. In fact even in Duchaine's time they experimented with an estrogenic product called Zeranol (Ralgro)(banned in sport). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeranol

People also think estrogens are uniquely associated with water retention, forgetting all anabolic/androgenic steroids can cause water retention even if there is no estrogenic component. If I'm not mistaken estrogens affect fat distribution more, interestingly if menopausal women are given estrogen they lose bodyfat, especially belly fat.

You need some estrogen for proper GH and IGF-1 function and many other growth associated pathways.

doc todd lee keeps his estro at 80 for ideal gh function he says

mast, primo and eq can all lower estro moreso for some than others it all depends upon your own indiviual body chem

big paul showed his look onstage with a video clip in that vid and i was shocked how he looked

he just looked ok nothing too great and he takes tons of shit and measures out his food intake down to the last microgram ???

bhank

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #82 on: April 28, 2024, 06:43:17 AM »
I started doing serious research in 1995 like birth of the internet times. I had really bad knees I already had torn both ACL I wanted to wrestle and needed stability.  I used to go to the NCSTATE Computer lab and pull everything I could find. By 1998 I was using various compounds and research products to heal my bilateral knee repairs. I had also read Dan Duchaine and who is that other dude founded one of the early successful nutrition companies? He wrote on of the other big books on the subject matter. There was not this kind of detail online yet.  By 1999 I was working in the library reading primary sources and looking for new studies online. As far as the internet everything from basskiller to whatever it was all just copy and pasted from the first couple books on the subject everyone just keeps regurgitating the same thing. I also have known some actual freaks and what they do or did. But regardless there isnt something written on this I have not read. I read all day everyday.

I read at least a dozen scientific articles and or journal primary sources a day on a variety of topics. But I still follow this one and it also kind of progressed into a lot of anti aging and longevity type research. But when you guys think I don't know about estrogen or ralgro it's like for fuck sake I was using syringe filters and acetone 25 years ago.

The entire reason I got back into this is my son was born and I was on a cane. I have used my knowledge and training and gotten what I wanted out of this. I can snowboard with him now. I can mountain bike. I can run. I have fully recovered. I even went past that and won a fucking NPC show. Oh yeah and the diet you guys said sucked has improved my stomach I have had no digestive issues since making changes 9 days prior to the show. I feel so great I am considering a wrestling meet.

It is not about getting big it is about getting back your tendon, ligament, and joint stability strength. After that it gets counter productive to beat the body up too much. So you guys tell me I did it all wrong. I took too many things. I didn't suffer enough with my diet. I didn't do enough sets or reps. I don't know anything. My win doesn't count.

Bullshit I turned back the fucking clock

The Scott

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #83 on: April 28, 2024, 06:49:57 AM »
I started doing serious research in 1995 like birth of the internet times. I had really bad knees I already had torn both ACL I wanted to wrestle and needed stability.  I used to go to the NCSTATE Computer lab and pull everything I could find. By 1998 I was using various compounds and research products to heal my bilateral knee repairs. I had also read Dan Duchaine and who is that other dude founded one of the early successful nutrition companies? He wrote on of the other big books on the subject matter. There was not this kind of detail online yet.  By 1999 I was working in the library reading primary sources and looking for new studies online. As far as the internet everything from basskiller to whatever it was all just copy and pasted from the first couple books on the subject everyone just keeps regurgitating the same thing. I also have known some actual freaks and what they do or did. But regardless there isnt something written on this I have not read. I read all day everyday.

I read at least a dozen scientific articles and or journal primary sources a day on a variety of topics. But I still follow this one and it also kind of progressed into a lot of anti aging and longevity type research. But when you guys think I don't know about estrogen or ralgro it's like for fuck sake I was using syringe filters and acetone 25 years ago.

The entire reason I got back into this is my son was born and I was on a cane. I have used my knowledge and training and gotten what I wanted out of this. I can snowboard with him now. I can mountain bike. I can run. I have fully recovered. I even went past that and won a fucking NPC show. Oh yeah and the diet you guys said sucked has improved my stomach I have had no digestive issues since making changes 9 days prior to the show. I feel so great I am considering a wrestling meet.

It is not about getting big it is about getting back your tendon, ligament, and joint stability strength. After that it gets counter productive to beat the body up too much. So you guys tell me I did it all wrong. I took too many things. I didn't suffer enough with my diet. I didn't do enough sets or reps. I don't know anything. My win doesn't count.

Bullshit I turned back the fucking clock

You're so full of shit (i.e., yourself) that we should just call you "buffet bhanky".  Keep moving or the flies will cover you.   You are their feastival.

dj181

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #84 on: April 28, 2024, 08:00:02 AM »
Yea. At times I've seen where he's said he is growing a lot, which never happened in his life. There's NOTHING wrong with being a scrawny guy or having bad genetics per se, and you can still know what you're talking about (see Lyle McDonald). But this guy doing studies on failure training when he is unable to train to failure ever himself, well... he is part of a circle jerk in the the fitness community, which includes Layne Norton, who boost each others social media presence and overlook problems in their research methodologies. Lyle has declared war on this group lol. Like Brad was conducting studies on training volume as related to muscle fiber size and Brad was measuring the fibers himself, and when pointed out the problems with this said, "you can trust me." They would never accept such from any other researcher, but Brad is a "bro."

No one EVER said Lyle doesn't know what he's talking about, he has a towering presence in the "evidence based" weight lifting community, he's the OG above all. They get away with ignoring him saying he's crazy (he's admitted bipolar). I love the guy, even if at times I would've wanted to strangle his scrawny neck, if it weren't for guys like this there would be no one at all to keep anyone honest and accountable.

here's big bad brad training to failure with meadows @ 13:30

LOOK DA FUCK OUT!!!


Raymondo

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #85 on: April 28, 2024, 09:06:06 AM »
Yea. At times I've seen where he's said he is growing a lot, which never happened in his life. There's NOTHING wrong with being a scrawny guy or having bad genetics per se, and you can still know what you're talking about (see Lyle McDonald). But this guy doing studies on failure training when he is unable to train to failure ever himself, well... he is part of a circle jerk in the the fitness community, which includes Layne Norton, who boost each others social media presence and overlook problems in their research methodologies. Lyle has declared war on this group lol. Like Brad was conducting studies on training volume as related to muscle fiber size and Brad was measuring the fibers himself, and when pointed out the problems with this said, "you can trust me." They would never accept such from any other researcher, but Brad is a "bro."

No one EVER said Lyle doesn't know what he's talking about, he has a towering presence in the "evidence based" weight lifting community, he's the OG above all. They get away with ignoring him saying he's crazy (he's admitted bipolar). I love the guy, even if at times I would've wanted to strangle his scrawny neck, if it weren't for guys like this there would be no one at all to keep anyone honest and accountable.

I think Lyle has started TRT. His arms have gotten noticeably bigger the last few years out of the blue. Unusual for a guy in his fifties.

I have four or five of his books, the only time I managed to get down to around 7% percent body fat natural it was with his stubborn fat loss solution (I looked like shit).

Always wanted to try UD2.0, but very difficult to do with an active social life.

joswift

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #86 on: April 28, 2024, 09:08:37 AM »
I started doing serious research in 1995 like birth of the internet times. I had really bad knees I already had torn both ACL I wanted to wrestle and needed stability.  I used to go to the NCSTATE Computer lab and pull everything I could find. By 1998 I was using various compounds and research products to heal my bilateral knee repairs. I had also read Dan Duchaine and who is that other dude founded one of the early successful nutrition companies? He wrote on of the other big books on the subject matter. There was not this kind of detail online yet.  By 1999 I was working in the library reading primary sources and looking for new studies online. As far as the internet everything from basskiller to whatever it was all just copy and pasted from the first couple books on the subject everyone just keeps regurgitating the same thing. I also have known some actual freaks and what they do or did. But regardless there isnt something written on this I have not read. I read all day everyday.

I read at least a dozen scientific articles and or journal primary sources a day on a variety of topics. But I still follow this one and it also kind of progressed into a lot of anti aging and longevity type research. But when you guys think I don't know about estrogen or ralgro it's like for fuck sake I was using syringe filters and acetone 25 years ago.

The entire reason I got back into this is my son was born and I was on a cane. I have used my knowledge and training and gotten what I wanted out of this. I can snowboard with him now. I can mountain bike. I can run. I have fully recovered. I even went past that and won a fucking NPC show. Oh yeah and the diet you guys said sucked has improved my stomach I have had no digestive issues since making changes 9 days prior to the show. I feel so great I am considering a wrestling meet.

It is not about getting big it is about getting back your tendon, ligament, and joint stability strength. After that it gets counter productive to beat the body up too much. So you guys tell me I did it all wrong. I took too many things. I didn't suffer enough with my diet. I didn't do enough sets or reps. I don't know anything. My win doesn't count.

Bullshit I turned back the fucking clock

all this positivily health wise and not an hour ago he admitted to hacking up phlegm.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #87 on: April 28, 2024, 09:52:14 AM »
But when you guys think I don't know about estrogen or ralgro it's like for fuck sake I was using syringe filters and acetone 25 years ago.



How would I know what you do and don't know if you don't say it. My posts get so long trying to preempt posters pointing out this or that that I missed. When you started posting here I actually said you likely had a long history with PEDs because I picked up on some things. I also said you look like a guy who likes his weed, I also mentioned speed, but let's not argue whether you do or not or ever did, I don't know. Regarding the estro, no one really takes it in addition to normal cycles with aromatizing compounds, what dj mentioned were guys who only ran something like Primo who "needed" some estro. You may be talking of Zumpano, the other guy besides Duchaine, or maybe it was someone else?

I am making an extreme example to make a point several sets near failure are going to create a better anabolic response than one set to failure

Ok. Myself I believe you need very little volume for maximal growth and pushing to failure is beneficial. Whether "little" is 1,2 or 3 sets, it's going to be very limited.

I was looking up failure training and Schoenfeld earlier and saw this good quote by John Meadows

"I never ever would have made it to where I did in bodybuilding, becoming a pro and placing in several pro shows, if I had the never go to failure, never push yourself too hard belief that is being pushed right now in our space. I am 100% ok with this line for novices and intermediates, but not people who i would consider to be beyond those stages. If you think this mentality will enable you to reach your ultimate level of potential, you will be disappointedin the end. Focus on recovery, and use high intensity/failure and beyond failure training wisely for sure, but there is a place for it. There are many "scientists" like @fortitude_training, @coach_kassem and @biolayne that I know that also believe in going really hard as well as simpleton meatheads like me. You just don't know what you are capable of until you really give it everything. There is also an an emotional and psychological benefit to knowing you did something you didn't even know you were capable of. Keep cranking."

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #88 on: April 28, 2024, 10:04:26 AM »
here's big bad brad training to failure with meadows @ 13:30

LOOK DA FUCK OUT!!!



MFer, you found it. That's the exact clip I mentioned earlier that I couldn't find lol. And think, he's on camera trying to illustrate failure. What about when he's off camera lol.

IroNat

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #89 on: April 28, 2024, 11:00:34 AM »
I've been doing three sets lately but took last week off and did zero sets and got much huger.

BB

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #90 on: April 28, 2024, 11:04:16 AM »
who is that other dude founded one of the early successful nutrition companies? He wrote on of the other big books on the subject matter.

I'm guessing EAS / Bill Phillips / WAR.

-----------------------------------

God bless Lyle's autism. I never counted them, but it's 30+ videos on Israeltel/Brad/Norton and failure -

https://www.youtube.com/@lylemcdonaldisright/videos.

.

.


bhank

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #91 on: April 28, 2024, 11:22:21 AM »
all this positivily health wise and not an hour ago he admitted to hacking up phlegm.

I have a cold

joswift

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #92 on: April 28, 2024, 11:42:34 AM »
I have a cold
soft bastard

Why even mention something so fucking insignificant

bhank

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #93 on: April 28, 2024, 11:59:41 AM »
I'm guessing EAS / Bill Phillips / WAR.

-----------------------------------

God bless Lyle's autism. I never counted them, but it's 30+ videos on Israeltel/Brad/Norton and failure -

https://www.youtube.com/@lylemcdonaldisright/videos.

.

.

Yeah Bill Phillips eas he wrote a handbook and a couple revisions

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #94 on: April 28, 2024, 12:36:12 PM »
I'm guessing EAS / Bill Phillips / WAR.

-----------------------------------

God bless Lyle's autism. I never counted them, but it's 30+ videos on Israeltel/Brad/Norton and failure -

https://www.youtube.com/@lylemcdonaldisright/videos.

.

.

Ah yes of course. But there was another guy who also was a drug dealer/drug wiz and who was involved with supplements, maybe whey protein too? Maybe it was someone called Feliciano? I was thinking of the Metabolol maker Zumpano. Now I think it was Feliciano who was another steroid guru. You know all these names I'm sure  ;)

Phillips wasn't that much of a guru imo, he was a dealer and salesman with the supps. I actually ordered his steroid book at like 15-16 years old lol.

Goddamn that Israetel is so smug and irritating lol. Maybe the name makes me associate him with trickery too lol. Lyle might be middle eastern too, I forget which country, maybe that is part of the antagonism between those two.

bhank

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #95 on: April 28, 2024, 12:49:24 PM »
The other big thing with estrogen is the environment we are already getting a lot of estrogenic contamination in our water supply


We are already getting too much

"Estrogenic pollutants pose significant challenges in water resources due to their endocrine-disrupting activities and potential hazards to the environment, ecology, and human health—even at low concentrations. Let’s delve into the reasons behind their impact:

Endocrine Disruption: Estrogenic pollutants interfere with the endocrine system, affecting hormone balance in both aquatic organisms and humans. These compounds mimic or block natural hormones, leading to adverse effects on growth, reproduction, and development.
Bioaccumulation: Steroidal estrogens, such as estrone and 17β-estradiol, persist in water bodies. They accumulate in aquatic organisms over time and can eventually reach humans through the food chain. This bioaccumulation poses risks to both wildlife and human consumers.
Synthetic Estrogens: Synthetic estrogens, including 17α-ethinylestradiol (found in oral contraceptives), exhibit higher estrogenic activity than natural hormones. These compounds are commonly detected in water resources and contribute to the overall estrogenic burden.
Industrial and Agricultural Sources: Estrogenic pollutants originate from various sources:
Livestock: Hormone-treated livestock (e.g., dairy cows) release natural and synthetic estrogens into water.
Industry: Chemicals like polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), pesticides, and phthalates also exhibit estrogenic activity.
Wastewater: Treated and untreated sewage discharges contain estrogenic compounds.
Environmental Impact: Estrogenic pollutants disrupt aquatic ecosystems, affecting fish populations, reproductive success, and overall biodiversity. They can lead to feminization of male fish and altered behavior.
Human Health Concerns: Even at low concentrations, exposure to estrogenic pollutants may impact human health. These compounds have been linked to reproductive disorders, cancers, and developmental abnormalities.
Treatment Challenges: Removing estrogenic pollutants from water resources is challenging. Existing methods (adsorption, oxidation, etc.) have limitations, such as high costs and toxic sludge generation. Enzyme-based bioremediation shows promise but requires further research.
In summary, addressing estrogenic pollutants is crucial for safeguarding water quality, ecosystems, and human well-being. Researchers and policymakers continue to explore effective strategies to mitigate their impact 123."

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Van_Bilderass

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #97 on: April 28, 2024, 01:01:30 PM »
Contamination



BB

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #98 on: April 28, 2024, 01:02:42 PM »
Ah yes of course. But there was another guy who also was a drug dealer/drug wiz and who was involved with supplements, maybe whey protein too? Maybe it was someone called Feliciano? I was thinking of the Metabolol maker Zumpano. Now I think it was Feliciano who was another steroid guru. You know all these names I'm sure  ;)

Phillips wasn't that much of a guru imo, he was a dealer and salesman with the supps. I actually ordered his steroid book at like 15-16 years old lol.

Goddamn that Israetel is so smug and irritating lol. Maybe the name makes me associate him with trickery too lol. Lyle might be middle eastern too, I forget which country, maybe that is part of the antagonism between those two.

Yes, Jeff Feliciano, he was Weider's guy in Flex -

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-01-18-me-902-story.html .

Mike Zumpano was considered a guru, but he quieted down when Champion Nutrition was starting up. You had to jump through some hoops to get him to talk about them for a while.

David Jenkins owned Designer Protein, he was another quiet one on the guru/steroid circuit - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Jenkins_(sprinter) .

Etc.....

95%+ of the bb supplement business is like a spider's web of ex steroid dealers.



 


Van_Bilderass

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Re: Hormones and intense excercise builds muscle
« Reply #99 on: April 28, 2024, 01:08:29 PM »
BB

I knew you'd have the deets lol.

Yes Jenkins too, that was the whey protein connection I made.