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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on May 30, 2007, 08:30:51 AM
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Yes or no?
If we deport illegals then should we deport their children who are now American citizens because they were born in the US too?
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yes...
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So we should deport American citizens?
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So we should deport American citizens?
Impossible.
I think there needs to be an amnesty for those living in the USA.
But the main problem needs to be addressed: The poor economy and situtation in Mexico.
If Mexico was on par with the rest of North America, there wouldn't be a problem.
USA, and to some extent Canada, needs to invest in Mexico, help bring up Mexico. That would help all three countries.
Instead of focusing on the Middle East, USA should spend resources on making North America bloom.
-Hedge
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Impossible.
I think there needs to be an amnesty for those living in the USA.
But the main problem needs to be addressed: The poor economy and situtation in Mexico.
If Mexico was on par with the rest of North America, there wouldn't be a problem.
USA, and to some extent Canada, needs to invest in Mexico, help bring up Mexico. That would help all three countries.
Instead of focusing on the Middle East, USA should spend resources on making North America bloom.
-Hedge
Imagine that? Focusing on the problems at home rather then sinking 400 billion and 3400 lives and counting on the otherside of the world.
Here's the problem. There 10,000,000+ illegals in the USA. If they averaged .5 USA born child per person we have 5,000,000 USA citizens with illegal parents. What do we do about that? Allow them all to stay?
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Yes or no?
If we deport them should we deport their children who are now American citizens because they were born in the US too?
1. Of course.
2. Cannot.
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1. Of course.
2. Cannot.
OK so who is going to take care of the 5 million or so children?
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So we should deport American citizens?
2 illegals breeding does not make a American citizen.
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As of now we can't deport the babies. I would therfore make anchor babies illegal..much like Canada did. If ur illegal..ur baby is too from now on. As for the illegals here. I'd start with the prisons and work my way back.
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2 illegals breeding does not make a American citizen.
14th amendment.
“ Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
It's a fact. they ARE Us citizens.
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As of now we can't deport the babies. I would therfore make anchor babies illegal..much like Canada did. If ur illegal..ur baby is too from now on. As for the illegals here. I'd start with the prisons and work my way back.
So then we change the constitution?
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Its killing us bro..yes we should.
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Its killing us bro..yes we should.
Well aren't these illegals helping our economy and our corporations by providing cheap labor?
Don't get me wrong i think it is a problem in our schools, and in our society when we have whole communities that don't speak English. And if they are taking advantage of our social services then maybe we just end that with making it so that we they need to show proof of citizenship to receive benefits.
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Well aren't these illegals helping our economy and our corporations by providing cheap labor?
does that outweight the cost of added crime, the lean on tax payers
how kany illegals do ya see in hospital emergency rooms at one time?
at least in PG county MD..ya walk into one and all of a sudden you r in mexico..
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I'd don't disagree..our problem is that the left or somebody had decided to tell these guys that they don't need to assimliate like (fill in the blank European country) had to. I think if we hasa nation do more to make them assimliate...many of these issues will take care of themselves. The problem is not immigration as we havea great history of that..its that we have decided to allow these folks to maintain a very strong nation identity with their homelands instead of adopting ours....Ok headed to the gym for lunch..see u guys when i get back. i'm working on trying to be the most overpaid major in the Army.
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OK so who is going to take care of the 5 million or so children?
I don't know. Maybe they go back with their parents. I can't imagine the parents would abandon their babies in droves when they are deported.
I would favor amending the Constitution to say the child of an illegal is not a citizen. Unfortunately, no way that even gets discussed in D.C. Our politicians are too afraid of the illegal alien lobby.
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Don't get me wrong i think it is a problem in our schools, and in our society when we have whole communities that don't speak English.
What about all the China Towns in the US? Chinese police, Chinese newspapers, Chinese radio stations and tv channels? Oh, they are not all legal either.
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I'd don't disagree..our problem is that the left or somebody had decided to tell these guys that they don't need to assimliate like (fill in the blank European country) had to. I think if we hasa nation do more to make them assimliate...many of these issues will take care of themselves. The problem is not immigration as we havea great history of that..its that we have decided to allow these folks to maintain a very strong nation identity with their homelands instead of adopting ours....Ok headed to the gym for lunch..see u guys when i get back. i'm working on trying to be the most overpaid major in the Army.
immigrants from russia, india, china, korea and europe are literate and can be counted on to be sucessful within the second generation.
These mexicans will do what pakis are doing in england.. they'll never integrate and will force americans bend over to their demands, instead of the other way around.
Cheap labor now = A shitty american in 20 years.. These mexicans within our population in an emerging global economy = losing to China and other countries.
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What about all the China Towns in the US? Chinese police, Chinese newspapers, Chinese radio stations and tv channels? Oh, they are not all legal either.
Chinese aren't commiting crimes and forcing americans to press 1 for english. ::)
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Chinese aren't commiting crimes and forcing americans to press 1 for english. ::)
Oh, okay. I thought we were talking about "whole communities that don't speak English." Sorry! ;D
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What about all the China Towns in the US? Chinese police, Chinese newspapers, Chinese radio stations and tv channels? Oh, they are not all legal either.
It's ok for all of that....just so long as they can speak English AND we don't have to have 50% of our class time devoted to spanish speaking children in our schools.
As for illegal Chinese immigrants....... not the same scale as the 11 million Mexican ones.
In California we have whole communities that don;t speak english.
BTW hi ya loco :)
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OK so who is going to take care of the 5 million or so children?
Deport the parents and use the children for meat. This will help decrease the possibility of Mad Cow Disease in the US. ;D
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It's ok for all of that....just so long as they can speak English AND we don't have to have 50% of our class time devoted to spanish speaking children in our schools.
As for illegal Chinese immigrants....... not the same scale as the 11 million Mexican ones.
In California we have whole communities that don;t speak english.
BTW hi ya loco :)
Hey OzmO! ;D
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Chinese aren't commiting crimes and forcing americans to press 1 for english. ::)
Camel Jockey,
Is somebody really forcing you to press 1 for English? How dare they? Most companies use English by default and just say press 1 or press 2 for Español if you wish. And I don't believe that this will stop even if you deport all illegal aliens. It's called Capitalism. The Spanish speaking population in the US is huge. I am talking about Spanish speaking American citizens who prefer to do business in Español. Businesses know this and they will cater to those customers. If you own a business and decide not to cater to Spanish speaking American citizens, that's fine, but you will lose business.
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Camel Jockey,
Is somebody really forcing you to press 1 for English? How dare they? Most companies use English by default and just say press 1 or press 2 for Español if you wish. And I don't believe that this will stop even if you deport all illegal aliens. It's called Capitalism. The Spanish speaking population in the US is huge. I am talking about Spanish speaking American citizens who prefer to do business in Español. Businesses know this and they will cater to those customers. If you own a business and decide not to cater to Spanish speaking American citizens, that's fine, but you will lose business.
I believe in everything you said there. I just think when we have people who don;t speak English in this country it's not good overall in the sense of integration and communication. I believe it promotes separation and misunderstanding.
I just think if you are to live in this country you should be required to speak the language.
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But the main problem needs to be addressed: The poor economy and situtation in Mexico.
If Mexico was on par with the rest of North America, there wouldn't be a problem.
USA, and to some extent Canada, needs to invest in Mexico, help bring up Mexico. That would help all three countries.
Instead of focusing on the Middle East, USA should spend resources on making North America bloom.
The U.S. is in debt to Mexico as we import much more than we export with them. However, U.S. companies in Mexico continue to exploit workers as much as possible in order to improve their corporate profits. This maintains the situation of Mexican workers seeking better wages in the U.S.
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I just think if you are to live in this country you should be required to speak the language.
I don't disagree with you. Just stating the facts. In the US, business and money come first, right? It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
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Deport the parents and use the children for meat. This will help decrease the possibility of Mad Cow Disease in the US. ;D
Seems like A Modest Proposal... ;)
-Hedge
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Sollent green is Mexicans!!!!!!!!!! :o :o :o
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I believe in everything you said there. I just think when we have people who don;t speak English in this country it's not good overall in the sense of integration and communication. I believe it promotes separation and misunderstanding.
I just think if you are to live in this country you should be required to speak the language.
Exactly.
Intentar apenda ingles, putas!
Yo estoy cansado de parlante espanol a tu putas.
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Exactly.
Intentar apenda ingles, putas!
Yo estoy cansado de parlante espanol a tu putas.
I know what putas means..... ;D
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Exactly.
Intentar apenda ingles, putas!
Yo estoy cansado de parlante espanol a tu putas.
Yeah, but one of these days, you may end up working for one of those putas. They may not speak English as fluently as you, but they are not stupid and many are very wealthy and their numbers in the US keep increasing. :)
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Yeah, but one of these days, you may end up working for one of those putas. They may not speak English as fluently as you, but they are not stupid and many are very wealthy and their numbers in the US keep increasing. :)
Oh really?
The hispanics that are well off in America are legal residents and speak fluent english.
And my demographic has a higher household per capita income, more education and lower rates of crime. Go look in the US census bureau or the admission offices of IVY league schools. ;)
Several hispanics work for my uncles, whether it's their resteraunts or groceries. :-\
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Oh really?
The hispanics that are well off in America are legal residents and speak fluent english.
And my demographic has a higher household per capita income, more education and lower rates of crime. Go look in the US census bureau or the admission offices of IVY league schools. ;)
Several hispanics work for my uncles, whether it's their resteraunts or groceries. :-\
Really.
A Hispanic does not have to be fluent in English to be a legal resident. Not all Spanish speaking American citizens speak fluent English. If a Hispanic has had legal residence in the US for 15 years and is over 55 years old, that person can take the citizenship test(US History/Government) in Español. There are study materials for them in Español out there. I know several that own business in the US and hire American born citizens.
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Really.
A Hispanic does not have to be fluent in Spanish to be a legal resident. Not all Spanish speaking American citizens speak fluent English. If a Hispanic has had legal residence in the US for 15 years and is over 55 years old, that person can take the citizenship test(US History/Government) in Español. There are study materials for them in Español out there. I know several that own business in the US and hire American born citizens.
Whatever.
The business owning hispanics I know(from Ecuador, Colombia, Puerto Rico) and dealt with were fluent in english and not very domian loyal to their respective homelands. I get mistaken for being hispanic often due to my complexion. :-X And I really love certain hispanic women. 8)
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I know what putas means..... ;D
And I know what fullar and culo means. 8)
-Hedge
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Camel Jockey,
Is somebody really forcing you to press 1 for English? How dare they? Most companies use English by default and just say press 1 or press 2 for Español if you wish. And I don't believe that this will stop even if you deport all illegal aliens. It's called Capitalism. The Spanish speaking population in the US is huge. I am talking about Spanish speaking American citizens who prefer to do business in Español. Businesses know this and they will cater to those customers. If you own a business and decide not to cater to Spanish speaking American citizens, that's fine, but you will lose business.
Yes, 411 is forcing me to press 1 for English, among other places. Deport them all. If they do not have citizenship then they are not citizens, merely squatters. Illegal immigrants have said they don't even want the open door at the cost of 5 grand for citizenship. It's pathetic. I bet they make at least 10 grand a year and they don't pay income taxes. Hmm...
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Yes, 411 is forcing me to press 1 for English, among other places. Deport them all. If they do not have citizenship then they are not citizens, merely squatters. Illegal immigrants have said they don't even want the open door at the cost of 5 grand for citizenship. It's pathetic. I bet they make at least 10 grand a year and they don't pay income taxes. Hmm...
But what about the kids born int eh US? The are legally citizens. Deport Us citizens also?
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1. Of course.
2. Cannot.
On point sir!
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But what about the kids born int eh US? The are legally citizens. Deport Us citizens also?
No but they will likely leave with mom and dad or stay with others who are legal but illegals need to go.
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No but they will likely leave with mom and dad or stay with others who are legal but illegals need to go.
So you think we should advocate ripping families apart? We are not talking about a thousand kids here, we are probably talking about 5 million. 5 million US citizens who by the right of our constitution (14th amendment) are US citizens and we are telling them they must leave or be separated from their family?
that makes no sense Cap
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5 million US citizens who by the right of our constitution (14th amendment) are US citizens and we are telling them they must leave or be separated from their family?
It seems like the parents, if being deported, will make the decision whether to take their kids, or to leave them with family in the U.S. If the parents don't return, the kids can return legally when they are ready.
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It seems like the parents, if being deported, will make the decision whether to take their kids, or to leave them with family in the U.S. If the parents don't return, the kids can return legally when they are ready.
then what of the citizenship status of those kids in Mexico? Will that be a problem? And the fact remains: we are forcing US citiznes to leave. what about the 1 year child? there are probably 500,000 of them.
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then what of the citizenship status of those kids in Mexico? Will that be a problem? And the fact remains: we are forcing US citiznes to leave. what about the 1 year child? there are probably 500,000 of them.
I'm not aware of any Mexican policy that prohibits children born of Mexican immigrants in American from living in Mexico. U.S. immigration policy isn't forcing 1-year-old American born babies to leave. The parents decide whether its in the best interest for the kid to stay with relatives in the U.S. or return with them when the parents are deported.
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So you think we should advocate ripping families apart? We are not talking about a thousand kids here, we are probably talking about 5 million. 5 million US citizens who by the right of our constitution (14th amendment) are US citizens and we are telling them they must leave or be separated from their family?
that makes no sense Cap
Not my problem. Illegal immigrants do not belong. This crap would not fly in any other country yet we put up with it. Why? They should have never come here or come here legally OR apply for citizenship in the 10, 15, 20+ years they have been here. I am not going to feel sorry for families who are here illegally and tell them to stay. There is no economic benefit if they are citizens.
THAT makes sense to me.
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Not my problem. Illegal immigrants do not belong. This crap would not fly in any other country yet we put up with it. Why? They should have never come here or come here legally OR apply for citizenship in the 10, 15, 20+ years they have been here. I am not going to feel sorry for families who are here illegally and tell them to stay. There is no economic benefit if they are citizens.
THAT makes sense to me.
Then what about the children? I get you don't want illegals here, but i don't think you understand the dynamic of the children who are US citizens ranging in ages from 1 day to 18 years old. Are you saying the hell with them also AND not honoring the constitution?
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I'm not aware of any Mexican policy that prohibits children born of Mexican immigrants in American from living in Mexico. U.S. immigration policy isn't forcing 1-year-old American born babies to leave. The parents decide whether its in the best interest for the kid to stay with relatives in the U.S. or return with them when the parents are deported.
If they deport the parents the children are directly being forced to leave or be separated. therefore we are deporting US citizens or breaking families apart.
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If they deport the parents the children are directly being forced to leave or be separated. therefore we are deporting US citizens or breaking families apart.
That's some broken logic. Again, the parents make the decision of what is in the best interest of their kids. Parents have the responsibility for their actions, both illegally entering the country, and deciding what to do with their kids if they are to be deported.
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That's some broken logic. Again, the parents make the decision of what is in the best interest of their kids. Parents have the responsibility for their actions, both illegally entering the country, and deciding what to do with their kids if they are to be deported.
But aren't we forcing the issue on the Kids who are American citizens? And we are forcing the parents to make a decision on OUR citizens. What of a 15 year old? Will they be allowed into Mexico and be able to go to school?
Just understand....i am raising questions here only. I'm not taking a position.
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Then what about the children? I get you don't want illegals here, but i don't think you understand the dynamic of the children who are US citizens ranging in ages from 1 day to 18 years old. Are you saying the hell with them also AND not honoring the constitution?
I am not saying they shouldn't stay. What I am saying is that I am not going to make an exception for their illegal parents because their children are legal. That is not a US problem and has nothing to do with honoring the Constitution.
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I am not saying they shouldn't stay. What I am saying is that I am not going to make an exception for their illegal parents because their children are legal. That is not a US problem and has nothing to do with honoring the Constitution.
I hear ya. I know you what you meant.
But what I'm asking about is the children. What about them?
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Throw em all out except for the hot chicas. 8) I will fuck them until they scream "CAMEL PAPI I!"
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I hear ya. I know you what you meant.
But what I'm asking about is the children. What about them?
If they have family, stay with them. If they don't then the parents have to make a choice for them. The parents should have thought about all of this when they brought their children over in the womb. Apply then and by now their 15 year old child would not have to make the choice.
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Yes or no?
If we deport illegals then should we deport their children who are now American citizens because they were born in the US too?
Yes
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Not my problem. Illegal immigrants do not belong. This crap would not fly in any other country yet we put up with it. Why? They should have never come here or come here legally OR apply for citizenship in the 10, 15, 20+ years they have been here. I am not going to feel sorry for families who are here illegally and tell them to stay. There is no economic benefit if they are citizens.
THAT makes sense to me.
oh darlin, you been to England lately? The crap is not only flying, the shit has hit the fan. (And I'm foreign in my own country because I lived in Canada so I cannot be a bigot...
I was a legal alien though.
xLinda
I might have to come back to this topic. You've got a massive country and noone can get in (I tried once). Any idea what's going on in this little island over here? You think you got problems...
sorry to crash your thread, goodnight
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14th amendment.
“ Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
It's a fact. they ARE Us citizens.
Fine. The children become wards of the state and their ILLEGAL parents can go back to their country of origin.
Of course, if that's to harsh they can take their anchor baby and all leave together.
Bottom line is that law abiding, tax paying AMERICANS and LEGAL aliens are tired of those who try to circumvent the system and bitch for special privileges.
Fvck 'em.
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Good point w8tlftr.
Linda, the US does not need to let every illegal stay or let every immigrant in. We need to fix what we have before we provide a safe haven for everyone else. We have jobless and homeless here, we have too many people on welfare and never hear the end about how there are not enough jobs for the uneducated masses, so why let more in to suck us dry on welfare and other aid.
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Yes or no?
If we deport illegals then should we deport their children who are now American citizens because they were born in the US too?
I'm not going to read three pages of this because I have an answer already
It depends, if the child has a legal family member or friend willing to raise the child then it should be allowed to stay. If not then yes the child should leave with its parents, with the ability to come back to the US when it has reached legal age.
The other option is yes deport them, born here or not, their parents didn't belong here, so they shouldn't rap the benefits of their parents criminal acts.
I would like to see option one implemented because the child IS born in the US, however option 2 is fine with me also.
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Fine. The children become wards of the state and their ILLEGAL parents can go back to their country of origin.
Of course, if that's to harsh they can take their anchor baby and all leave together.
Bottom line is that law abiding, tax paying AMERICANS and LEGAL aliens are tired of those who try to circumvent the system and bitch for special privileges.
Fvck 'em.
So we take 5 million US citizens, children of illegals, conceived and born in the USa, but are bonafied US citizens under the constituion and tax our system with them by putting them in foster homes or tell them they have to leave?
that makes no sense for our tax money as well as the children.
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I'm not going to read three pages of this because I have an answer already
It depends, if the child has a legal family member or friend willing to raise the child then it should be allowed to stay. If not then yes the child should leave with its parents, with the ability to come back to the US when it has reached legal age.
The other option is yes deport them, born here or not, their parents didn't belong here, so they shouldn't rap the benefits of their parents criminal acts.
I would like to see option one implemented because the child IS born in the US, however option 2 is fine with me also.
So basically, the children's rights under the constitution of the United States means nothing? They either get separated from their parents or become a US citizen that gets deported?
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So we take 5 million US citizens, children of illegals, concieved and born int he USa and tax our system with them by putting them in foster homes?
that makes no sense for our tax money as well as the children.
And it makes no sense to allow ILLEGAL mom and dad to stay either. They probably have some legal family members to stay with and let's face it, they will not stay here alone. Allowing mom and dad to stay, become citizens will be a greater burden on our tax system.
What you fail to understand is that they are being protected by being allowed to stay. What don't you understand? Mom and dad have no protections, the child does. By saying "you have a choice to stay or go" is totally up to them and in no way infringes upon their rights.
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And it makes no sense to allow ILLEGAL mom and dad to stay either. They probably have some legal family members to stay with and let's face it, they will not stay here alone. Allowing mom and dad to stay, become citizens will be a greater burden on our tax system.
What you fail to understand is that they are being protected by being allowed to stay. What don't you understand? Mom and dad have no protections, the child does. By saying "you have a choice to stay or go" is totally up to them and in no way infringes upon their rights.
Cap, you have made a few posts demonstrating your passion for this issue.
I believe your passion is clouding your reading comprehension when you read my posts.
i'm NOT asking about the illegals, i'm asking about the children
I haven't once, in this thread, said the illegals should stay becuase of the children. Go back and read some of my replies to your immigration posts and you'll see I've been pretty consistent in my views.
ALL I'm asking is what do you do with 5 million children? separate them from their families or be the first country in history to deport it's own citizens? Both answers don't make much sense to me.
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And again I post, they can stay IF they want or leave IF they want. That is totally up to them and they ought to be the only ones to decide. We cannot deport the children but we do not have to ensure that they end up with their parents. Their parents are the problem, not the US. I hope that makes it clearer. Where a person ends up in life, in terms of location, is up to them. So, to answer your question again, make the kids and parents decide. The question of what to do with the kids is not separate from the issue of what to do with the parents.
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Cap, you have made a few posts demonstrating your passion for this issue.
I believe your passion is clouding your reading comprehension when you read my posts.
i'm NOT asking about the illegals, i'm asking about the children
I haven't once, in this thread, said the illegals should stay becuase of the children. Go back and read some of my replies to your immigration posts and you'll see I've been pretty consistent in my views.
ALL I'm asking is what do you do with 5 million children? separate them from their families or be the first country in history to deport it's own citizens? Both answers don't make much sense to me.
I believe your passion is clouding your reading comprehension.
read my post again........it's simple we aren't forcing the children to leave, only the parents. If the child can be placed with a legal friend or relative, while the parents get their paperwork, then great. if not then yes the children should go with the parents, with the ability to come back to the US when they want, as they were born here. So we wouldn't really be deporting our own citizens, only the parents, the parents would have the choice of what to do with their children, take them home, leave them with someone legal.
And I don't think it should be a burden on the state/federal gov. to care for these kids, if they don't have a place to go, then go home with the parents. Simple really.
I see no reason to allow however many millions of illegals to stay here, because their children were born here. They are here illegally after all.
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I believe your passion is clouding your reading comprehension.
read my post again........it's simple we aren't forcing the children to leave, only the parents. If the child can be placed with a legal friend or relative, while the parents get their paperwork, then great. if not then yes the children should go with the parents, with the ability to come back to the US when they want, as they were born here. So we wouldn't really be deporting our own citizens, only the parents, the parents would have the choice of what to do with their children, take them home, leave them with someone legal.
And I don't think it should be a burden on the state/federal gov. to care for these kids, if they don't have a place to go, then go home with the parents. Simple really.
I see no reason to allow however many millions of illegals to stay here, because their children were born here. They are here illegally after all.
We absolutely are forcing them to make a choice by deporting them.
We may have had laws against forbidding illegal immigration but in reality our companies and our government have turned a blind eye to it for economic reasons. That's a fact, and both you and i know that.
Now to deport all of them would force the parents to makes a choice: leave them or take them. Of course they are not for the most part going to take them, BUT it is us who are causing this to happen. We are forcing our own citizens to be deported from their country OR we are forcing the the families to be separated from their children.
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We absolutely are forcing them to make a choice by deporting them.
We may have had laws against forbidding illegal immigration but in reality our companies and our government have turned a blind eye to it for economic reasons. That's a fact, and both you and i know that.
Now to deport all of them would force the parents to makes a choice: leave them or take them. Of course they are not for the most part going to take them, BUT it is us who are causing this to happen. We are forcing our own citizens to be deported from their country OR we are forcing the the families to be separated from their children.
Not true at all. We are not forcing anything. They must make a choice and that's on them. We are deporting ILLEGALS (not their legal children...if they were born here) and we are not forcing families to separate from their children, they can come and go as US citizens. I really do love the fact that Illegals not applying for citizenship is somehow everyone else's fault but their own. Plain and simple, this would not be an issue if people came here LEGALLY. Again, no forcing and no deportation of LEGAL CITIZENS. Period.
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Not true at all. We are not forcing anything. They must make a choice and that's on them. We are deporting ILLEGALS (not their legal children...if they were born here) and we are not forcing families to separate from their children, they can come and go as US citizens. I really do love the fact that Illegals not applying for citizenship is somehow everyone else's fault but their own. Plain and simple, this would not be an issue if people came here LEGALLY. Again, no forcing and no deportation of LEGAL CITIZENS. Period.
No it's not on them becuase they are CHILDREN.
We are forcing children in 2 directions: leave their country or leave their parents.
Do you really think the parents are going to leave their children here? com on! Do you have kids of your own? maybe that's why you can;t understand. Have you ever met kids who were separated from their parents????????????????????
As a result we will be deporting US citizens.
I really do love the fact that Illegals not applying for citizenship is somehow everyone else's fault but their own. Plain and simple, this would not be an issue if people came here LEGALLY. Again, no forcing and no deportation of LEGAL CITIZENS. Period.
Cap, get over your self and stop trying to make this into a blame thing. I'm talking about a practical problem involving children.
Of course it wouldn't be an issue is they came here illegally, but that's not reality. And those US citizens are not at fault and should not have to pay for it.
all of which is according to the constitution.
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Remember Cap I'm not talking so much about what we are doing now.
I'm talking about what if we deported all of them right now. something i think you suggested along with others.
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Get over yourself pal. If they leave of their OWN VOLITION then there is no deportation. PERIOD. You blame the government yet tell me not to blame the REAL people at fault, the ILLEGALS. The kids can blame their parents if they have to leave. Do you not understand that if the children leave with their deported parents then they left on their own accord, not by the laws of the US government directly telling them they MUST leave. Are all 5 million of those kids legal?
Remember Cap I'm not talking so much about what we are doing now.
I'm talking about what if we deported all of them right now. something i think you suggested along with others.
I did suggest it and stand by it still. Like I said in my post, deporting ILLEGALS is not deporting their children. If we said that all illegals and their legal offspring must go, then and only then would your posts make the slightest sense. Deportation is by law. The children leaving would be a tough personal/family decision.
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Remember Cap I'm not talking so much about what we are doing now.
I'm talking about what if we deported all of them right now. something i think you suggested along with others.
You are right in the aspect of blaming our industry for hiring these illegal, but you topic is what about the US citizen kids born of illegals. I've given my opinion, whether it's an acceptable one for you isn't my concern.
WE are forcing them to give up their families or leave the country?? What the hell? They(the parents) made a conscious decision to break the law to gain entry into this country. What kind of role model is that???? I don't think tax payers should have to foot the bill for these people or their kids. Illegals should be deported, that's the law. What they do with their kids..........well, they have very few choices don't they? We as Americans did not force these choices on them, they forced the choice by breaking the law.
And I agree with Cap on this issue, ALL illegals should be deported and homeless/welfare users(abusers) should be forced to do a certain number of hours of labor for their checks. Whether that is picking strawberries/oranges or mopping the floor in office buildings. These are jobs that people will say nobody wants to do, that's why we NEED illegals ::). I don't think so. Growing up lots of my friends had jobs at fast food place in high school, now you have to speak spanish to order, because the 37 year old mother of three has to translate to the 42 year old hispanic cook your order.
This is a topic that really boils my blood, living in SoCal with these whiny bastards crying about illegals have rights too, bullshit they DON'T BELONG HERE.
rant over.................for now >:(
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Yes your compassion for your fellow human beings, ESPECIALLY children, is clear here.
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Yes your compassion for your fellow human beings, ESPECIALLY children, is clear here.
I have compassion for children Ozmo, what is your solution? Make all these illegal citizens so everything will be great then huh? What about the wages going up to pay all these illegals? Do you not think they are a burden on our hospitals, auto insurance, homeowners ins, etc etc?
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Get over yourself pal. If they leave of their OWN VOLITION then there is no deportation. PERIOD. You blame the government yet tell me not to blame the REAL people at fault, the ILLEGALS. The kids can blame their parents if they have to leave. Do you not understand that if the children leave with their deported parents then they left on their own accord, not by the laws of the US government directly telling them they MUST leave. Are all 5 million of those kids legal?
I did suggest it and stand by it still. Like I said in my post, deporting ILLEGALS is not deporting their children. If we said that all illegals and their legal offspring must go, then and only then would your posts make the slightest sense. Deportation is by law. The children leaving would be a tough personal/family decision.
Anyone BORN in the USA is a citizen. Period. Read your constitution.
Deporting illegals IS deporting children becuase you are giving no alternative that's practical for the children or our aid system.
But you are too self righteous to see the problem in that.
You are perfect candidate to be a guard at a concentration camp. No compassion, self righteous, and willing to see children suffer.
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I have compassion for children Ozmo, what is your solution? Make all these illegal citizens so everything will be great then huh? What about the wages going up to pay all these illegals? Do you not think they are a burden on our hospitals, auto insurance, homeowners ins, etc etc?
i have no solution. that's what the thread is about. it's a discussion fo this problem. but i do know this. Anything decision that would cause the children too suffer is the wrong one.
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Anyone BORN in the USA is a citizen. Period. Read your constitution.
Deporting illegals IS deporting children becuase you are giving no alternative that's practical for the children or our aid system. Not practical or not perfect? There are 3 choices for them. Stay here with illegal parents and risk getting caught and possibly end up in state care. Stay here with family. Go back to Mexico.
But you are too self righteous to see the problem in that.
You are perfect candidate to be a guard at a concentration camp. No compassion, self righteous, and willing to see children suffer.
Not practical or not perfect? There are 3 choices for them. Stay here with illegal parents and risk getting caught and possibly end up in state care. Stay here with family. Go back to Mexico. As for the rest, well, I'll leave the insults.
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Not practical or not perfect? There are 3 choices for them. Stay here with illegal parents and risk getting caught and possibly end up in state care. Stay here with family. Go back to Mexico. As for the rest, well, I'll leave the insults.
Sorry Cap, i apologize. One day if you have kids you'll understand why i find what you just said outrageous and highly insensitive to innocent children. So i got a little mad. Again i apologize.
But still, we aren't talking about illegals that choose to stay here after we "REALLY" start to deport them. we are talking deporting US citizens or sperating children from their families.
BOTH options are bad.
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i have no solution. that's what the thread is about. but i do know this. Anything decision that would cause the children too suffer is the wrong one.
Then there is no solution!!!!!!!! How do you not blame the parents for illegally entering this country and putting their children in this position? Why would you be against sending the children home with the parents? It's not like I'm suggesting they could never come back. We're also not talking about putting 5 mil kids into the foster care system. If you would like to say we're deporting US children, fine, call it what you like, but the US didn't force this situation on them, blame the parents. Why wouldn't you point the finger where it belongs? Not enough people are standing up and saying it's the parents fault, it's the illegals fault for breaking into our country in the first place >:( You are right I have 0 compassion for illegals. and only a little for the kids. I feel bad they are caught in the drama, what do you do? And who do you blame? How do you stop it? CLOSE THE FUCKING BORDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Ozmo before you go off about having kids on me, I do have a son, guess what? he's legal cause he was born here to parents that were born here to grandparents that were born here to greatgrandparents that were born here...................
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Then there is no solution!!!!!!!! How do you not blame the parents for illegally entering this country and putting their children in this position? Why would you be against sending the children home with the parents? It's not like I'm suggesting they could never come back. We're also not talking about putting 5 mil kids into the foster care system. If you would like to say we're deporting US children, fine, call it what you like, but the US didn't force this situation on them, blame the parents. Why wouldn't you point the finger where it belongs? Not enough people are standing up and saying it's the parents fault, it's the illegals fault for breaking into our country in the first place >:( You are right I have 0 compassion for illegals. and only a little for the kids. I feel bad they are caught in the drama, what do you do? And who do you blame? How do you stop it? CLOSE THE FUCKING BORDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Ozmo before you go off about having kids on me, I do have a son, guess what? he's legal cause he was born here to parents that were born here to grandparents that were born here to greatgrandparents that were born here...................
don't worry i didn't get you cap mixed up.
i agree with you about blame going to the parents. i just don't think the children should suffer do you? My whole point has been about the children not the kids.....also on a side note, you can't put too much blame on the illegals becuase we have outwardly turned a blind eye to it for years.
Yes, my great great grand dad came here from Germany or France in the late 1800's. ;D
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Actually Ozmo, I put the blame 50/50. We as a society should have spoke up about this YEARS ago. I also believe our gov needs to close the border, very, very strict on this one. We need to absolutely shut down the crossing of illegals into this country. What to do with the kids???????? I don't know but like I said in the other thread here, I don't feel our gov,
my our tax dollars should be spent to raise kids that should not have been born here, but were, only because their parents were criminals.
I know it's a hard line coming to children, but as hard as we try, we can't save the world and it shouldn't be our responsibility.
This subject fires me right up >:(
I'm done....for now :-*
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So we take 5 million US citizens, children of illegals, conceived and born in the USa, but are bonafied US citizens under the constituion and tax our system with them by putting them in foster homes or tell them they have to leave?
that makes no sense for our tax money as well as the children.
Yep. That's exactly what we do. Their parents broke the law and have to go.
Those "kids" are welcome to come back to the United States once they become legal adults.
Besides, it isn't like those "kids" are paying taxes and contributing to American society.
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Yep. That's exactly what we do. Their parents broke the law and have to go.
Those "kids" are welcome to come back to the United States once they become legal adults.
Besides, it isn't like those "kids" are paying taxes and contributing to American society.
those kids are the innocent ones here and they ARE American citizens. I'm talking aout the parents. I'm talking about the children. Deporting all the illegals forces the children to suffer 2 ways:
1. be separated form their families
2. be the first US citizens to be deported form the USA.
Those kids are AMERICAN citizens by the 14th amendment nothing can change that. they can come ANY time they wish.
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I cannot see kicking out a kid who was born in America, who has been in America 17 years, because his parents are illegals. There will be hundreds of thousands of 17 year olds. There will be hundreds of thousands of 16 year olds. There will be hundreds of thousands of 15 year olds.
See where I'm going with this? As much as most people hate this amnesty thing, both parties agree on it because there are no other viable options. you can't kick the parents out.
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You can kick the parents out and call it deportation. Nobody can argue that. Nobody is going to kick any kids out, they will make-or their parents will-make a choice. I will love to see how politicians will try to explain more taxes, more welfare, higher prices, etc if these people become citizens. Kennedy, "It's for the children." McCain, "they DESERVE it." Crock of bullshit. I say 12 million of us go to Europe and try this crap. This is going to cause so many more problems than what to do with the many babies popped out by people who have HUGE families with many kids. Will you all feel better about the children when you are paying a butt load more for all the aforementioned expenses? I guess owning up to lawlessness and being responsible for ones actions is something that people no longer believe in. If you give a dog a treat for pissing on the carpet repeatedly, will it stop and suddenly obey? There should be no free pass to citizenship. 5 grand is nothing when you pay no income taxes. At $300/wk-which is what these guys make-they make $15 grand a year, they can easily pay but they don't want to. TYPICAL welfare recipient mentality; I'll take, you give and then I'll bitch if I have to actually work for it.
Those kids are AMERICAN citizens by the 14th amendment nothing can change that. they can come ANY time they wish.
Exactly my point. They will not be deported, they will make a hard choice and feel bad. That is not deportation.
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those kids are the innocent ones here and they ARE American citizens. I'm talking aout the parents. I'm talking about the children. Deporting all the illegals forces the children to suffer 2 ways:
1. be separated form their families
2. be the first US citizens to be deported form the USA.
Those kids are AMERICAN citizens by the 14th amendment nothing can change that. they can come ANY time they wish.
Oz, I really don't care.
My mother is from the Philippines, didn't break the law, and became a U.S. citizen. This amnesty proposal is a slap in the face to everyone who plays by the rules.
It's not Americans or even the U.S. government that is making these kids suffer - it's the parents who broke our laws that are doing this to THEIR kids.
So I'll go back to my original statement. The kids can stay with any relatives in the U.S. who are here LEGALLY OR they can become wards of the state OR go back with their parents to their parents country of origin.
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You can kick the parents out and call it deportation. Nobody can argue that. Nobody is going to kick any kids out, they will make-or their parents will-make a choice. I will love to see how politicians will try to explain more taxes, more welfare, higher prices, etc if these people become citizens. Kennedy, "It's for the children." McCain, "they DESERVE it." Crock of bullshit. I say 12 million of us go to Europe and try this crap. This is going to cause so many more problems than what to do with the many babies popped out by people who have HUGE families with many kids. Will you all feel better about the children when you are paying a butt load more for all the aforementioned expenses? I guess owning up to lawlessness and being responsible for ones actions is something that people no longer believe in. If you give a dog a treat for pissing on the carpet repeatedly, will it stop and suddenly obey? There should be no free pass to citizenship. 5 grand is nothing when you pay no income taxes. At $300/wk-which is what these guys make-they make $15 grand a year, they can easily pay but they don't want to. TYPICAL welfare recipient mentality; I'll take, you give and then I'll bitch if I have to actually work for it.
Exactly my point. They will not be deported, they will make a hard choice and feel bad. That is not deportation.
That's no different then saying: Sign the confession or die.
Again, you have no children so you are indifferent to the problem forcing children and parents to chose to leave their kids or let them get deported. You see it as something they "just have to endure" Perhaps you can remember back when you were 12 years and see it from those eyes. Maybe you can't.
You see this as such a simplistic solution and it's obvious you don't at all grasp the enormity and cruelty of what you are saying.
This reminds of what Australia did with the Aborigines when they separated families for their "own good"
No one, that i can see is arguing that illegals aren't a problem. but let's face facts. Our stance on the issue has helped this problem up to now. We have a responsibility to fix without causing children to suffer and without deporting US citizens and in turn disgracing our own constitution.
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Oz, I really don't care.
My mother is from the Philippines, didn't break the law, and became a U.S. citizen. This amnesty proposal is a slap in the face to everyone who plays by the rules.
In closing, it's not Americans or even the U.S. government that is making these kids suffer - it's the parents who broke our laws that are doing this to THEIR kids.
So I'll go back to my original statement. The kids can stay with any relatives in the U.S. who are here LEGALLY OR they can become wards of the state OR go back with their parents to their parents country of origin.
I get that you think i believe the current proposed solution by our government is a good thing? I don't.
My mother is also from the Philippines and did the same as your mom.
However, it can be argued that it is partially our governments fault for turning a blind eye to illegals the past 20 years at the encouragement and lobby of agriculture and other companies. For the us to say: you have 2 choices to illegals is proper but to say that to children who are US citizens is not.
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That's no different then saying: Sign the confession or die.
Again, you have no children so you are indifferent to the problem forcing children and parents to chose to leave their kids or let them get deported. You see it as something they "just have to endure" Perhaps you can remember back when you were 12 years and see it from those eyes. Maybe you can't.
You see this as such a simplistic solution and it's obvious you don't at all grasp the enormity and cruelty of what you are saying.
This reminds of what Australia did with the Aborigines when they separated families for their "own good"
No one, that i can see is arguing that illegals aren't a problem. but let's face facts. Our stance on the issue has helped this problem up to now. We have a responsibility to fix without causing children to suffer and without deporting US citizens and those disgracing our own constitution.
I'll tell you what. Make them pay the fees they should have, plus back taxes, etc which are all things they don't want to do. A free ride is not a good idea for anyone but illegals. Nobody should have a free ride. The current bill is pretty much giving a cheap ride to citizenship and they don't want it. What does that say about the illegals in this country? What does that say to you? What do you think they will do if given citizenship? Will they obey laws then as opposed to now? If they wanted to be citizens and stay here legally, should they not be held to the same standard as all other immigrants? Sure it can be a lengthy process, but when they have been here for 10, 15, 20 years what is the excuse? Should I feel bad because all of a sudden they realized that they broke the law? It has nothing to do with me being childless, it has to do with practicality. There is nothing practical or economical about letting them stay. Make them pay fines and fees that they owe and if they refuse to pay fees that grant them legal status, what would you say then? Please tell me that you will not come back to the children thing? Honestly, what is your opinion about the numerous illegals that have said they will not pay 5 grand to stay in this country? Is that not a bargain at this point?
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I get that you think i believe the current proposed solution by our government is a good thing? I don't.
My mother is also from the Philippines and did the same as your mom.
However, it can be argued that it is partially our governments fault for turning a blind eye to illegals the past 20 years at the encouragement and lobby of agriculture and other companies. For the us to say: you have 2 choices to illegals is proper but to say that to children who are US citizens is not.
Hell yeah it can be argued that the government was asleep at the wheel regarding our illegal immigration problem. They have failed us completely.
This whole thing pisses me off. >:(
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I'll tell you what. Make them pay the fees they should have, plus back taxes, etc which are all things they don't want to do. A free ride is not a good idea for anyone but illegals. Nobody should have a free ride. The current bill is pretty much giving a cheap ride to citizenship and they don't want it. What does that say about the illegals in this country? What does that say to you? What do you think they will do if given citizenship? Will they obey laws then as opposed to now? If they wanted to be citizens and stay here legally, should they not be held to the same standard as all other immigrants? Sure it can be a lengthy process, but when they have been here for 10, 15, 20 years what is the excuse? Should I feel bad because all of a sudden they realized that they broke the law? It has nothing to do with me being childless, it has to do with practicality. There is nothing practical or economical about letting them stay. Make them pay fines and fees that they owe and if they - refuse to pay fees that grant them legal status, what would you say then? Please tell me that you will not come back to the children thing? Honestly, what is your opinion about the numerous illegals that have said they will not pay 5 grand to stay in this country? Is that not a bargain at this point?
Well, :), i 'm happy that you see my point is not about the adult illegals.
I'm not asking you to feel bad about anything. all i'm asking you to do is consider the welfare of innocent children and the integrity of our constitution.
I think, after seeing all these opinions from you and others, the most important thing to do right now is shut the border tight.
Form that point i really don't know.
here's why:
- WE SHOULD NOT GRANT THEM CITIZENSHIP.
- if we kick them out over a period of let's say 2 years our economy will take a serious hit and the effects could be far worse than we realize.
Maybe we should do this: They must be able to speak passable English, be free of criminal records, pay all taxes and perhaps a $5000 fine fro breaking the illegal alien law. If they meet these condition they can stay.
I'm just thinking off the top pf my head. but at least they are given a reasonable option.
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They have failed us completely.
Among a long long list of other things >:(
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If they do not want to pay then they are done IMO.
If they can speak English-we agree.
If they pay taxes and fees-we agree.
Is it messed up for the kids?-we agree.
Are they responsible for their plight?-we seem to disagree there. If a druggie blamed harsher enforcement for his/her incarceration after years of lax enforcement, is he/she still not wrong/guilty? We cannot separate the issue of kids and parents because one could not happen w/o the other.
If they have criminal records and have kids?-IMO they go, you might disagree. Feel free to respond.
IMO, any adult who wants citizenship must work, whether mom, dad, etc. If they are jobless then that is a risk I am not willing to take and if not employed must be employed before citizenship being granted.
You mention the economic hit, what do you say to them being the cause of price increases if they are legally deserving of higher wages? Please answer that one for me.
Why couldn't our welfare workers-and I have said this before-do all the jobs that illegals do now? They would be WORKING for money and doing the same jobs and they would be legal. Seems to me that it would work.
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If they do not want to pay then they are done IMO.
If they can speak English-we agree.
If they pay taxes and fees-we agree.
Is it messed up for the kids?-we agree.
Are they responsible for their plight?-we seem to disagree there. If a druggie blamed harsher enforcement for his/her incarceration after years of lax enforcement, is he/she still not wrong/guilty? We cannot separate the issue of kids and parents because one could not happen w/o the other.
I see it the like the story of giving a mouse a cookie. We allowed much of this to happen by not something about it years ago. I don;t think we have full responsibility of course, but our lack of doing anything about is part of the problem and we must consider that when trying to fix it.
If they have criminal records and have kids?-IMO they go, you might disagree. Feel free to respond.
If they have felonies in the US they should go, but i think that happens anyway.
IMO, any adult who wants citizenship must work, whether mom, dad, etc. If they are jobless then that is a risk I am not willing to take and if not employed must be employed before citizenship being granted.
You mention the economic hit, what do you say to them being the cause of price increases if they are legally deserving of higher wages? Please answer that one for me.
Why couldn't our welfare workers-and I have said this before-do all the jobs that illegals do now? They would be WORKING for money and doing the same jobs and they would be legal. Seems to me that it would work.
Your idea about the Welfare is nice, but very unrealistic, there are a percentage that truly need it, then there are a percentage that are plain lazy bottom feeders and have no intention of earning an hosnest living.
Maybe we should deport them and keep the illegals who are earnest and hard working!
Over the next few days i'm going to research the economic impact getting rid of all the illegals would do to our country, i think you and i are talking in a vacuum here becuase we don't have all the facts.
oh also, if we make them legal we will feel the cost of higher wages in higher prices, so if we get rid of them, then others may take there place who are citizens and the prices will rise anyway.
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I welcome hard workers over lazy fucks any day, but they must also contribute to society in the way of taxes, specifically income taxes. In terms of welfare, sure, people need it. My plan would 1.) negate any economic benefit of illegal workers 2.) cut cost between the gov't and businesses which is good for both, 3.) makes their lazy welfare asses earn their money, 4.) provide them with a work history as opposed to toe nail clipping collections sitting in their trailer. No welfare worker should get a free ride; make em work. They may need it but they ought to work for it. Same for illegals. If you combine welfare workers legal status and illegals work ethic, you have an American citizen I want here.
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Ozmo, I'm curious, you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but what state/area do you live?
I know 240 is in Florida, I'm not sure of the illegal population down there. But here in SoCal, the illegal population takes a heavy toll on our system. It is very disturbing, having kids in the mix makes it harder to make a tough decision, but I don't think there are alot of options on this.
If the parents are illegal they should be deported, no question.
The children should NOT be given to the state or foster care, etc. Maybe a non-profit org. could set up a program, but it should NOT be state/fed run.
Yes, these kids are Americans, under the 14th. They should be allowed to come and go like any American.
The options are limited, but if the parents are deported and don't want to seperate the family, the LET THEM TAKE THE CHILD.
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Ozmo, I'm curious, you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but what state/area do you live?
I know 240 is in Florida, I'm not sure of the illegal population down there. But here in SoCal, the illegal population takes a heavy toll on our system. It is very disturbing, having kids in the mix makes it harder to make a tough decision, but I don't think there are alot of options on this.
If the parents are illegal they should be deported, no question.
The children should NOT be given to the state or foster care, etc. Maybe a non-profit org. could set up a program, but it should NOT be state/fed run.
Yes, these kids are Americans, under the 14th. They should be allowed to come and go like any American.
The options are limited, but if the parents are deported and don't want to seperate the family, the LET THEM TAKE THE CHILD.
I live in No. Cali. between SF and Sac. i regularly go into the valley on business into Stockton, Modesto, Fresno etc.... So i see much of the same things you do.
We cannot in good conscience force children/parents to make a choice like that. We must give them an opportunity to raise their children with out us deporting them. If that means they pay fines or taxes to stay here without the parents getting automatic citizenship then w/e.
Fact is, we have enabled this problem to continue with or blind eye policies for the past few years.
You cannot indirectly provide "crime causing avenues" then unilaterally punish whole groups for taking advantage of the "freedom" we have.
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I live in No. Cali. between SF and Sac. i regularly go into the valley on business into Stockton, Modesto, Fresno etc.... So i see much of the same things you do.
We cannot in good conscience force children/parents to make a choice like that. We must give them an opportunity to raise their children with out us deporting them. If that means they pay fines or taxes to stay here without the parents getting automatic citizenship then w/e.
Fact is, we have enabled this problem to continue with or blind eye policies for the past few years.
You cannot indirectly provide "crime causing avenues" then unilaterally punish whole groups for taking advantage of the "freedom" we have.
I understand your position, whether we agree or not. So, what you suggest if they refused to pay anything? I see that as a slap in the face. 5 grand is a bargain for them at this point, especially after the years of tax evasion/enforcement (however you want to look at it). I think that they could afford that but for some to come outright and say "No, it is not a viable option", to me that is outrageous. Should we just not grant them citizenship at that point? We're still going to get screwed if they are all citizens.
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I understand your position, whether we agree or not. So, what you suggest if they refused to pay anything? I see that as a slap in the face. 5 grand is a bargain for them at this point, especially after the years of tax evasion/enforcement (however you want to look at it). I think that they could afford that but for some to come outright and say "No, it is not a viable option", to me that is outrageous. Should we just not grant them citizenship at that point? We're still going to get screwed if they are all citizens.
They were given an opportunity, so then they get deported i guess. I'm thinking out loud here and formulating opinion as we go on, but that's how i see it right now. Giving all these people no-strings attached amnesty isn't a good option IMO. They enter the country illegally and there needs to be some sort of consequence for that be it small or big.
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They were given an opportunity, so then they get deported i guess. I'm thinking out loud here and formulating opinion as we go on, but that's how i see it right now. Giving all these people no-strings attached amnesty isn't a good option IMO. They enter the country illegally and there needs to be some sort of consequence for that be it small or big.
Now we are getting somewhere in terms of our discussion. That's what really kills me (aside from us getting potentially screwed if they get equal wages, access to more welfare, soc security, etc). 5 thousand is nothing these days.
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Now we are getting somewhere in terms of our discussion. That's what really kills me (aside from us getting potentially screwed if they get equal wages, access to more welfare, soc security, etc). 5 thousand is nothing these days.
cap86,
I agree with you that if the US offers them legal residency for $5,000, they should take it. That is a bargain. I just don't know if we should believe the media that most illegal immigrants don't want to take this offer. I know that a lot of them would rather die than go back to Mexico. So why wouldn't they pay $5,000 to stay?
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cap86,
I agree with you that if the US offers them legal residency for $5,000, they should take it. That is a bargain. I just don't know if we should believe the media that most illegal immigrants don't want to take this offer. I know that a lot of them would rather die than go back to Mexico. So why wouldn't they pay $5,000 to stay?
They say it sounds too good to be true, according to initial reports and say that the amount is too much. To me, that is nothing short of a gift and almost a free ride to citizenship.
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They say it sounds too good to be true, according to initial reports and say that the amount is too much. To me, that is nothing short of a gift and almost a free ride to citizenship.
i agree.
Heck, give them a short term payment plan if needed based on income.
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i agree.
Heck, give them a short term payment plan if needed based on income.
I am wondering if they even truly want full citizenship or just benefits of living here. They say they already consider themselves citizens.
Income taxes suck for us all; will they pay? Will they want to pay? Or will they continue working under the table? I could see them doing it but I also see the AFL-CIO trying to organize like they said. It's a crap shoot, and a risky one at that.
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round em up..send em to iraq..
an illegal wants to be a citizen..ok fine..but ya gotta serve first..
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I am wondering if they even truly want full citizenship
they dont wanna learn the language
the dont wanna integrate into the culture
they still talk about mexico as home
ya hear mexican pride slogans everywhere
..what do you think? :-\
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round em up..send em to iraq..
an illegal wants to be a citizen..ok fine..but ya gotta serve first..
Heard or read somewhere that some illegal aliens volunteered to fight in Iraq and got their permanent residence that way. Now, I don't know if they are still alive. If not, at least they died as legal US residents.
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Heard or read somewhere that some illegal aliens volunteered to fight in Iraq and got their permanent residence that way. Now, I don't know if they are still alive. If not, at least they died as legal US residents.
well THEY GOTTA BRING SOMETHING TO THE TABLE...
this give us your tired n hungry shit gotta stop..
we got enough tired n hungry here already..
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well THEY GOTTA BRING SOMETHING TO THE TABLE...
this give us your tired n hungry shit gotta stop..
we got enough tired n hungry here already..
My tired and hungry what?
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round em up..send em to iraq..
an illegal wants to be a citizen..ok fine..but ya gotta serve first..
"Latinos comprise more than a third of the 41,000 foreign citizens in the U.S. fighting force, according to the Defense Department, with the largest number — 8,539 — from California. Immigrant troops are most visible in the Army and Marines, the services with the highest casualty rates in Iraq"
http://www.1115.org/2005/05/31/green-card-marines/
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they dont wanna learn the language
the dont wanna integrate into the culture
they still talk about mexico as home
ya hear mexican pride slogans everywhere
..what do you think? :-\
Go to East LA my friend and you will see it hardcore. It was more a rhetorical question but we both hit the point, they are not making effort. Learning a language shows a desire to be a part of the whole. Most cannot even order in English. I am glad there are owners like the one of Geno's Cheesesteak in Philly who refuses to serve anyone who does not order in English.
And you are right, they do need to bring something to the table. More babies is not beneficial in my mind, especially if they too do not learn the language. I actually heard one women justify popping out 6 babies and dropping out of high school as a part of Mexican culture. She said, "that's just the way it is. It is normal for us." This is a college educated woman BTW. To me, she was ignorant for saying that and justifying that crap.
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"Latinos comprise more than a third of the 41,000 foreign citizens in the U.S. fighting force, according to the Defense Department, with the largest number — 8,539 — from California. Immigrant troops are most visible in the Army and Marines, the services with the highest casualty rates in Iraq"
http://www.1115.org/2005/05/31/green-card-marines/
hey i got nuttion against latinos..
i got EVERYTHING against illegals..when you break a law you r a CRIMILAL..PERIOD!
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Go to East LA my friend and you will see it hardcore. It was more a rhetorical question but we both hit the point, they are not making effort. Learning a language shows a desire to be a part of the whole. Most cannot even order in English. I am glad there are owners like the one of Geno's Cheesesteak in Philly who refuses to serve anyone who does not order in English.
And you are right, they do need to bring something to the table. More babies is not beneficial in my mind, especially if they too do not learn the language. I actually heard one women justify popping out 6 babies and dropping out of high school as a part of Mexican culture. She said, "that's just the way it is. It is normal for us." This is a college educated woman BTW. To me, she was ignorant for saying that and justifying that crap.
my mums english ws horrible when we moved..within a month of being here she enrolled in classes cause she thought" it ws the right thing to do"
some latinos here (loco and others) might think i'm singling latinos out...but NO i feel the same way about pakistani illegals..
you hear me sound off quite often about the c unt taliban loving pakistani shitholes that have infested the UK..
if ya love mexico so much ..then LIVE THERE..
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Go to East LA my friend and you will see it hardcore. It was more a rhetorical question but we both hit the point, they are not making effort. Learning a language shows a desire to be a part of the whole. Most cannot even order in English. I am glad there are owners like the one of Geno's Cheesesteak in Philly who refuses to serve anyone who does not order in English.
And you are right, they do need to bring something to the table. More babies is not beneficial in my mind, especially if they too do not learn the language. I actually heard one women justify popping out 6 babies and dropping out of high school as a part of Mexican culture. She said, "that's just the way it is. It is normal for us." This is a college educated woman BTW. To me, she was ignorant for saying that and justifying that crap.
It gets worse cap.
I live in northern California in the Bay Area. there are public schools that spend 50% of their class time teaching in Spanish. That is F-ing BULLSHIT IMO. There business's that ONLY speak Spanish here. You go into a Mexican resteraunt and NO ONE SPEAKS ENGLISH. There are neighborhoods that are 75%+ Spanish speaking only.
The language thing is my BIGGEST peeve in the immigrant matter.
It's like there is a sub-culture here.
Honestly, if it wasn't for the children my attitude would be more like yours.
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It gets worse cap.
I live in northern California in the Bay Area. there are public schools that spend 50% of their class time teaching in Spanish. That is F-ing BULLSHIT IMO. There business's that ONLY speak Spanish here. You go into a Mexican resteraunt and NO ONE SPEAKS ENGLISH. There are neighborhoods that are 75%+ Spanish speaking only.
The language thing is my BIGGEST peeve in the immigrant matter.
It's like there is a sub-culture here.
in the summer when i get dark i kinda sometimes look like a taco..
once at a theme park some taco came up to me and goes " <something in spanish>"
to which i replied " abababalushka abababalushka"
to which he says " i dont understand"
to which i replied " EXACTLY"
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some latinos here (loco and others) might think i'm singling latinos out...but NO i feel the same way about pakistani illegals..
Nah, I just believe politicians cater to the masses, the fastest growing population(Latinos) and the fastest growing religion(Islam), drawing attention to these groups and then, with the media 's help, people start getting the wrong idea and start blaming and hating those groups, when in reality it is the politicians and the media that are to blame.
Who do you think allowed, and still allows today all those illegals to come in? Do you really think that the government can do nothing to stop them? Sure they can. The US has enough money to build the Wall of China across that border, but they don't. They stop a few here and deport a few there to make it look like they are doing something, and to keep things under control to an extent. But they allow it, for the economy.
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The US has enough money to build the Wall of China across that border, but they don't. They stop a few here and deport a few there to make it look like they are doing something, and to keep things under control to an extent. But they allow it, for the economy.
that is true..however i dont think they allow it for the economy..
however they do allow it..to what end..i know not..
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that is true..however i dont think they allow it for the economy..
however they do allow it..to what end..i know not..
there has to be a reason for it that ultimately involves profit for someone, the government, or some company.
It's America, everything we do is rooted in money.
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there has to be a reason for it that ultimately involves profit for someone,
of course..but it sure isn't the economy..thats a farse
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I tried to speak on this issue(illegal immigration) in a sociology class I took but I was met with the race card and was outnumbered like 45 to 1.. hahaha Some black kid agreed with me, but didn't say shit in class. :-\ I was surprised when some mr braniac asian kid said I was mad.. thought them(azn) being hard working LEGAL immigrants they would agree, but no. Since illegals and their supporters try and mix in their cause with immigration in general they get huge support from model minority groups like asians and indians.
No one could refute any of my points about their lack of integration, changing american culture and breaking the law outright.. But I was "racist" so my points were null and void. :-\
Can't tell me there aren't more people you guys and myself in the states.. I know there are but the issues are so touchy they can easily be countered with red herring arguements or ad hominem attacks. And people will never take our fuckin side because they don't want the lable of racist..
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The coasts are polarized..I'm from Boston but bro, being stationed in the Red States everybody here feels that way.
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I live in No. Cali. between SF and Sac. i regularly go into the valley on business into Stockton, Modesto, Fresno etc.... So i see much of the same things you do.
We cannot in good conscience force children/parents to make a choice like that. We must give them an opportunity to raise their children with out us deporting them. If that means they pay fines or taxes to stay here without the parents getting automatic citizenship then w/e.
Fact is, we have enabled this problem to continue with or blind eye policies for the past few years.
You cannot indirectly provide "crime causing avenues" then unilaterally punish whole groups for taking advantage of the "freedom" we have.
OK. I understand what you're seeing. What you see is the farm laborers, who are here working hard and trying to make a living. I have been around that area and seen many of these guys. They are an issue, but they aren't like the majority we have in SoCal. I'l explain, we don't have the farms and acreage that you do up there. The guys we are dealing with down here are the ones who stand at the Home Depot parking lot, hassling people on the way to their cars. Or the ones who stand in the middles of the median on the road selling flowers, grapes, oranges, lemons, watches, etc,etc........ Not to mention the ones that just kind of wonder around begging in grocery store parking lots, reaking of alcohol.......
If you do see these things Ozmo, I doubt it is to the same degree that we down here see them. If you had to live in this area and deal with these events on a daily basis for years on end, maybe you would understand the animosity that comes across in some of my posts.
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OK. I understand what you're seeing. What you see is the farm laborers, who are here working hard and trying to make a living. I have been around that area and seen many of these guys. They are an issue, but they aren't like the majority we have in SoCal. I'l explain, we don't have the farms and acreage that you do up there. The guys we are dealing with down here are the ones who stand at the Home Depot parking lot, hassling people on the way to their cars. Or the ones who stand in the middles of the median on the road selling flowers, grapes, oranges, lemons, watches, etc,etc........ Not to mention the ones that just kind of wonder around begging in grocery store parking lots, reaking of alcohol.......
If you do see these things Ozmo, I doubt it is to the same degree that we down here see them. If you had to live in this area and deal with these events on a daily basis for years on end, maybe you would understand the animosity that comes across in some of my posts.
You are exactly right. I would understand your animosity. The vast majority of illegals or Hispanics i have seen or know are hard working honorable people.
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You are exactly right. I would understand your animosity. The vast majority of illegals or Hispanics i have seen or know are hard working honorable people.
This is the key difference in our regions and our opinions ;)
It's amazing how a group of people a few hundred miles apart could be so different. Yet the same, in so many ways.