Where Are They Now - Tom Prince

[ESFitness]

That much Advil will mess you up.

Except Tom was pumping a bunch of shit in his veins. Everybody who'd see him knew it, as he couldn't hid the track marks and big purple abcesses in the crock of his elbow

[illuminati]

Most roid users are totally delusional as to how much the drugs actually help.  It's just the 5% finishing touch.

Maybe some are - Like the Thicko one’s.
That doesn’t stop the more intelligent ones from being OTT
With PED use & Rec Drug use Though.

[IroNat]

Except Tom was pumping a bunch of shit in his veins. Everybody who'd see him knew it, as he couldn't hid the track marks and big purple abcesses in the crock of his elbow

Well, that couldn't have been good for him.

[MAXX]

Tren is bad for kidneys too

they put alot of chemicals in their body the kidneys has to filter

[AbrahamG]

Digital Muscle Media:
WHERE ARE THEY NOW-
Former Mr. USA, Tom Prince

He should seek out TBombz advices for a better ARV cocktail.

[Rambone]

Bodybuilders utilize multiple ways to ruin their bodies.

Totally worth it. 

You can still be productive with your time spent in dialysis by doing work on your laptop.

You can get a couple hours of work done on the laptop, turn it off when you start feeling dizzy, enjoy the roller coaster in your head for the last hour, and then do it all again 2 days later.

[BIG DUB]

Except Tom was pumping a bunch of shit in his veins. Everybody who'd see him knew it, as he couldn't hid the track marks and big purple abcesses in the crock of his elbow

There is a battle for the Olympia where you can see a black vein on his bicep some say from mainline nubain

[ESFitness]

There is a battle for the Olympia where you can see a black vein on his bicep some say from mainline nubain

Among other stuff, cuz that vein was there (along with purple abcesses in his elbow) a lot longer than nubain ceased being around.

Nubain IV is clean. It's meant to be injected IV/I'm/sub-q.  Pills and powders on the other hand, the kidneys have to filter out.

[Taffin]

You're told you have kidney disease from bodybuilding drugs, BMI, BP, etc. Your also told how to save your kidneys and you ignore the Dr's advices. 

I think you were to first to figure out who this idiot was. Bigorexia is real!

Walt, I read that study last time you posted it and found the evidentiary links to be strong (as a layman, granted)  I'm not sure what people think of the Anabolic Doc YouTube channel, but I found his stuff on kidneys also very interesting.  For me, if a heavy juicer develops FSGS hen to ignore the additional risk factors that come with aspects of the lifestyle seems naive at best...

Bigorexia is a problem, for sure.  But in the interview (which by the way was great thanks Shawn) I think Prince made an even more import point - you don't want feel your kidneys failing.  So people keep pushing right to the edge of the cliff without knowing how perilous a position they are in...

[Bevo]

Cant wait for the Where Are They Now - Art Atwood

30 mins interviewing a tombstone

[Taffin]

Who is that?

IFBB Pro Beau Baisden.  Wannabepro brought him to my attention originally then I recognised him from the study Walter posted a while back.  Those threads pop up easily if you search his surname

I'm sure it's conincidental but shortly after I began an update thread on the girlfriend-transplant situation his previously public IG and Facebook went private - but not deactivated or switched to memorial mode - so I'm guessing his carne do Brasil is still doing its job...

[Rambone]

30 mins interviewing a tombstone

Hahahah 

[BIG DUB]

Walt, I read that study last time you posted it and found the evidentiary links to be strong (as a layman, granted)  I'm not sure what people think of the Anabolic Doc YouTube channel, but I found his stuff on kidneys also very interesting.  For me, if a heavy juicer develops FSGS hen to ignore the additional risk factors that come with aspects of the lifestyle seems naive at best...

Bigorexia is a problem, for sure.  But in the interview (which by the way was great thanks Shawn) I think Prince made an even more import point - you don't want feel your kidneys failing.  So people keep pushing right to the edge of the cliff without knowing how perilous a position they are in...

In a post he made on chad's board he talked about having swollen feet and flash edema in his lungs. After the Dr visit he went off supposedly but not long after that he posted he was on again and tried to compeye once more. So it's not as if he didn't know or have warnings from his body

[Desolate]

Went through all this and never came close to winning a pro show.

What a jackass.

Hilarious.

[Matt]

Went through all this and never came close to winning a pro show.

What a jackass.

Hilarious.

True.  Tom Never1AShow.

[WalterWhite]

Walt, I read that study last time you posted it and found the evidentiary links to be strong (as a layman, granted)  I'm not sure what people think of the Anabolic Doc YouTube channel, but I found his stuff on kidneys also very interesting.  For me, if a heavy juicer develops FSGS hen to ignore the additional risk factors that come with aspects of the lifestyle seems naive at best...

Bigorexia is a problem, for sure.  But in the interview (which by the way was great thanks Shawn) I think Prince made an even more import point - you don't want feel your kidneys failing.  So people keep pushing right to the edge of the cliff without knowing how perilous a position they are in...

The same goes for left ventricular hypertrophy which has been linked to steroid use. More and more studies are comparing ventricles of users to none users with irrefutable results using echo measurements.

https://jcmr-online.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1532-429X-14-S1-P186

"Anabolic steroid use amongst bodybuilders can induce significant left ventricular hypertrophy. The pattern and severity of remodelling can mimic hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. The use of such drugs should be considered in the differential diagnosis of significant otherwise unexplained left ventricular hypertrophy, particularly in the athletic cohort."

It's worth noting that cessation of use can lead to left ventricular hypertrophic recession.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3028985/

"In agreement with these findings, the present study demonstrates reversibility after steroid cessation at 3 years. In addition, this is the first published report on steroid abuse in an athlete that shows near normalization of LVH and left ventricular cavity dimension."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3028985/

[tres_taco_combo]

You're told you have kidney disease from bodybuilding drugs, BMI, BP, etc. Your also told how to save your kidneys and you ignore the Dr's advices. 

I think you were to first to figure out who this idiot was. Bigorexia is real!

blocky and no arms

bodybuilding either you have lines and shape or do not...

[Desolate]

What's funny is that FLEX constantly ran articles about how he trained his impressive arms.

[pellius]

The same goes for left ventricular hypertrophy which has been linked to steroid use. More and more studies are comparing ventricles of users to none users with irrefutable results using echo measurements.

https://jcmr-online.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1532-429X-14-S1-P186

"Anabolic steroid use amongst bodybuilders can induce significant left ventricular hypertrophy. The pattern and severity of remodelling can mimic hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. The use of such drugs should be considered in the differential diagnosis of significant otherwise unexplained left ventricular hypertrophy, particularly in the athletic cohort."

It's worth noting that cessation of use can lead to left ventricular hypertrophic recession.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3028985/

"In agreement with these findings, the present study demonstrates reversibility after steroid cessation at 3 years. In addition, this is the first published report on steroid abuse in an athlete that shows near normalization of LVH and left ventricular cavity dimension."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3028985/

Does that include trt where levels are kept at normal range?

[IroNat]

Does that include trt where levels are kept at normal range?

No studies have been done.

The autopsies on the users haven't been scheduled.

[m8]

Thank you Shawn for asking the real questions and not being another fake.

[IroNat]

Thank you Shawn for asking the real questions and not being another fake.

It was a good interview.

We are busting his cohones but Prince was straightforward for the most part.

[Bevo]

Does that include trt where levels are kept at normal range?

What exactly is “true trt” these days

Many are using 300 mg and up and consider that to be trt

[oldtimer1]

Feel bad for the guy after viewing that.  Seems like he has a good attitude despite his situation.

That being said, he's still in denial about how he (and other bodybuilders/Nichols "clients") ended up dead or borderline walking dead.

- Prince now claims that he has some genetic abnormality that caused his kidneys to fail.  What happened to the Advil theory?  Why aren't other Prince family members carpooling to dialysis with him, as a genetic condition likely affects more than just one person.

- He still downplays the role of drugs - both in bodybuilding and the demise of his health.  "It was all about the training.  The drugs were secondary."  LOl…..ok.  When asked if the drugs caused (or even contributed) to his kidneys melting, his answer was "I don't think so", or maybe a bit, etc.

- He then contradicts himself when asked if he would want his sons to get into bodybuiding (and the lifestyle), he said an immediate NO.  At least he's not willing to support his kids using drugs  like Lee Labrada.

- Prince also tells Shawn Rat that he would have blood tests regularly WAY earlier that he did, as it was too late when the bad news was discovered.  He must be looking for that pesky genetic disorder. 


Sad story altogether...…..

On point analysis. I remember writing back and forth with Casey Viator. He argued he was in great health because all his blood tests came back great. He died a short couple of years later.

I don't know why bodybuilders rationalize their health problems away as genetic. You take four or five drugs from questionable sources then argue it has nothing to do with any health problems.

Going back to O'Hearn it's true. The guy is never out of shape. He will fluctuate slightly but dam it's decade after decade. If he uses it's really low dose because he is always in shape. Imagine him using what the other guys use? These pro superstars look like absolute crap once they go completely clean and not taking low doses off cycle. The list is long of how they look like shit.  That's why this "sport" is just bull shit. It's a sport based on drugs. No drugs equals no sport. No one is going to pay money in Vegas to see a cut up natural 170lbs on stage. Fans of drugs like to think all sports are based on drug use and that is not true.  

Glad Prince is living a good life financially due to his wife. According to the National Kidney Foundation the life expectancy is 5-10 years for dialysis with a few exceptions. I wish him the best.

[willl]

Does that include trt where levels are kept at normal range?

Depends on some of the other elements, multi factoral as always

Some of the other aspects to consider, rbc, hematocrit, thickened blood, lack of aerobic cardiovascular exercise, bodyweight, bp, renal function, etc

to answer your question: yes it can definitely happen on TRT-only (physiologic T levels or slightly above T levels) provided some conditions are there.
it can happen in a natural user as well

but supraphysiologic levels of T will always favor it rather than the opposite.