Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: old-school-lifter on February 16, 2014, 05:44:12 PM
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http://web.stagram.com/p/653155283120973634_245661560
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There's hope for anabolichalo
(http://distilleryimage1.s3.amazonaws.com/c3366b1292bb11e3bcad0ed23e359d95_8.jpg)
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its known as aging.
that arm is now on par with mine, this is still not too bad ;D
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Aging, tolerance to drugs, injuries, etc....
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ronnie- still a legend!
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There's hope for anabolichalo
(http://distilleryimage1.s3.amazonaws.com/c3366b1292bb11e3bcad0ed23e359d95_8.jpg)
Leopold Anabolichalo ;D
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In Ronnie's case probably spinal surgery
Plus sticking a big fucking needle into the delts and arms five times a day is eventually going to sever nerves that innervate those muscles.
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yeah joint issues which indirectly lead to nerve damage, cant feel the muscles nomore etc.
degradation of tendons is another factor.
but first and foremost age.
nobody trains to that level, if everyone did, 99%population would have at least the same problems by that age
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Even if he lived to be an old man I just always assumed Ron would take at least 20s all the way to the grave.
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Age doesn't explain rapid atrophy. Injuries such as torn muscles or damaged connective tissue that make training painful are the more likely explanations. Long term non-training caused most of Arnold's atrophy.
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Age doesn't explain rapid atrophy. Injuries such as torn muscles or damaged connective tissue that make training painful are the more likely explanations. Long term non-training caused most of Arnold's atrophy.
Injuries, Age, tolerance to drugs.
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Age doesn't explain rapid atrophy. Injuries such as torn muscles or damaged connective tissue that make training painful are the more likely explanations. Long term non-training caused most of Arnold's atrophy.
I bet it has something to do with the drugs they have taken causing Rhabdomyolysis.
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wow...
PIP RONNIE'S FMR MUZLEZ
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It's ironic that a guy who picks up a weight for the first time in his life at 40 years old could end up looking better than Ronnie at 50. If you plan on training for several decades, you need to pace yourself.
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In Ronnie's case probably spinal surgery
Plus sticking a big fucking needle into the delts and arms five times a day is eventually going to sever nerves that innervate those muscles.
This. Waiting too long to have his spinal issues corrected. Irreversible nerve damage and all that entails, including tricep atrophy
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yeah joint issues which indirectly lead to nerve damage, cant feel the muscles nomore etc.
degradation of tendons is another factor.
but first and foremost age.
nobody trains to that level, if everyone did, 99%population would have at least the same problems by that age
Hes only a year older than me, guy looks 10 years older body wise.
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It's ironic that a guy who picks up a weight for the first time in his life at 40 years old could end up looking better than Ronnie at 50. If you plan on training for several decades, you need to pace yourself.
nah, look at that picture, cover his head and try and forget it's ronnie, looks damn good for an oldass man
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It's generous to call those 19 inches
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Age doesn't explain rapid atrophy. Injuries such as torn muscles or damaged connective tissue that make training painful are the more likely explanations. Long term non-training caused most of Arnold's atrophy.
^^
You're 100% right, he was OK until his last movies in late 1990's, but after that he was obsessed with Motorcycles (he had a few bad spills) and smoking Cigars, and during his political period he didn't lift at all...
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Does anyone in this thread actually even know WTF they are talking about?
Sounds like a bunch of guess-work to me. I wouldn't even call it "Hypothesis...."
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Nerve compression in his spine from disc degeneration, to hit the tricep and lat usually at c 4,5 c5,6 c7, 8
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19.75
Powerful..thick and perfectly shaped and proportioned.
No zits.
Notice the fkng lats hanging down like slabs of meat
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what's your point here shit head? you are a small tit next to ronnie
Yeah...I take prohormones....LOL.
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Shut the hell up you are only embarrassing yourself any further. You are nothing NOTHING next to RC
AND WILL NEVER BE
(not this lifetime or any other one)
Simmer down son...I'm a ronnie fan too.
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http://web.stagram.com/p/653155283120973634_245661560
Eventually, all our arms will shrink beyond recognition, as we grow older and shrivel up
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Eventually, all our arms will shrink beyond recognition, as we grow older and shrivel up
The thought of that makes me want to cry
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the man is 51 years old give him a break
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Ronnie has zero to prove.. he was the best for 8 years... I could care less if he had bruce lee arms....not a single getbigger will be able to accomplish what Ronnie did!!
And im not a Ronnie fan.. but I saw him on the O stage twice...and I was I amazed.
Btw..im a jay fan
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You have to wonder about the depression these guys must suffer. They're known for being huge and ripped and everyone they see expects that of them...and then ti watch it wither away much faster than it took to attain it. They're not just losing muscle...they're losing their identity and I would imagine a huge part of their self worth. I'm honestly surprised we don't see a lot of suicides from these once great champions who are just a shell of their former selves.
Maybe they wrap themselves into family or other ventures...honestly I don't think I would be able to deal with that kind of breakdown...guess that's why I wasn't made to be a Mr. O.
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19.75
Powerful..thick and perfectly shaped and proportioned.
No zits.
Notice the fkng lats hanging down like slabs of meat
Looking good, arm don!
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19.75
Powerful..thick and perfectly shaped and proportioned.
No zits.
Notice the fkng lats hanging down like slabs of meat
WHAT YR?
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He will be 50 this summer .
just saying .
WoooSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH
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Groink did all that on only 50mg of tren a month, too.
Seriously though, there are some older NPC guys I know in their 50's who don't have palumboism and they have spent every cent they own on drugs for decades. I guess it does come down to nerve damage and mega abuse vs megamegamega abuse (Ronnie style)
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His legs are finished too. But his gut remains.
Ronnie is truly the classic example of a shooting star. Burns brighter than anything in the sky, but oh so briefly. Now reduced to a few particles of scattered stardust.
What causes Palumboism? Testosterone receptors that are tired and saturated after 25 years of non-stop anabolic chemical assault. His body doesn't respond to the sauce anymore.
(http://i.imgur.com/w33pjCv.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eP3rn1w.jpg)
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Groink did all that on only 50mg of tren a month, too.
Seriously though, there are some older NPC guys I know in their 50's who don't have palumboism and they have spent every cent they own on drugs for decades. I guess it does come down to nerve damage and mega abuse vs megamegamega abuse (Ronnie style)
I think those were the day's groink was'natural'..
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the man is 51 years old give him a break
Robby Robinson is 68, and he looks loads better, it all has to do with the amount of drugs they used.
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Robby Robinson is 68, and he looks loads better, it all has to do with the amount of drugs they used.
Serge was much better too.
(http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/7/c/7c741-Serge_Nubret.jpg)
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Groink and Big Ron are about the same age I think.
Groink has him on arms for sure.
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Of course Palumboism caught up to him, and he looks horrid today, he paid the price for entering the mutant world in 2003 probably... Think about it, almost washed up in 2002 with small arms to beastly the year after... I was never a big fan of him, but he's the greatest most complete Mr Olympia ever, and he's almost 50, nothing left to prove...
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Ronnie took bodybuilding to a level nobody has being able to surpass and the heavy hardcore workouts he use to do would make a lot of bodybuilders run so now is body is beaten up, that is how life is you have to pay a price for greatness.
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(http://www.bodyweb.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104510&stc=1&d=1300645795)
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You have to wonder about the depression these guys must suffer. They're known for being huge and ripped and everyone they see expects that of them...and then ti watch it wither away much faster than it took to attain it. They're not just losing muscle...they're losing their identity and I would imagine a huge part of their self worth. I'm honestly surprised we don't see a lot of suicides from these once great champions who are just a shell of their former selves.
If that was the case I doubt he'd be posting up his current arm pics and stating that they're "only" 19's now.
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WHAT YR?
What do you mean? .it was taken yesterday
Here's a different one that I almost chose
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Yay, I am catching up to RC and my fucking arms haven't grown an inch in 10 years :-\
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What do you mean? .it was taken yesterday
Here's a different one that I almost chose
OH thanks ,,,thought is was older pic,arms look real big,and u blanked face it looks like an older bulked pic your face from what I can see looks fuller not usual chisel ...
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:o
No matter how things turned out , there was a time when he was very special.
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You have to wonder about the depression these guys must suffer. They're known for being huge and ripped and everyone they see expects that of them...and then ti watch it wither away much faster than it took to attain it. They're not just losing muscle...they're losing their identity and I would imagine a huge part of their self worth. I'm honestly surprised we don't see a lot of suicides from these once great champions who are just a shell of their former selves.
Maybe they wrap themselves into family or other ventures...honestly I don't think I would be able to deal with that kind of breakdown...guess that's why I wasn't made to be a Mr. O.
Think they just up the does until they croak. The smart ones grow up , find a nice girl to settle down with and fade out of the bbing scene.
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this dude is huge! big ron is a monster!
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Isn't Gary Strydom like 5 years older than Ronnie? And he doesn't seem to be infected with the type of muscle wasting that Ronnie has...I personally think guys like Ronnie and Cutler are toxic from using unbelievable amounts of powders from China. Possible lead poisoning and who knows what else.
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Isn't Gary Strydom like 5 years older than Ronnie? And he doesn't seem to be infected with the type of muscle wasting that Ronnie has...I personally think guys like Ronnie and Cutler are toxic from using unbelievable amounts of powders from China. Possible lead poisoning and who knows what else.
You are talking about two of the greatest mr.O winners in History.
WooooSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHH
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Isn't Gary Strydom like 5 years older than Ronnie? And he doesn't seem to be infected with the type of muscle wasting that Ronnie has...I personally think guys like Ronnie and Cutler are toxic from using unbelievable amounts of powders from China. Possible lead poisoning and who knows what else.
wtf are you talking about.
both of the athletes in question have confirmed MULTIPLE times that they dont use steroids.
A guy gains a pound of muscle and you people instantly jump to conclusions!
BSN and Muscletech supplements are better than gear imho.
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It has nothing to do with drug abuse, it has to do with nerve damage. Ronnie most likely suffered a back injury that was never corrected at some point.
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http://web.stagram.com/p/653155283120973634_245661560
What were they at their largest? I'd assume 23-24"?
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this coleman dude is an absolute freak! he looks pretty freaking huge!
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Ronnie was a beastly Mr. Olympia. Now, however, he well and truly needs to cover that shit up.
However it happened, nerve damage is likely the greatest culprit to his Palumboism. Perhaps just too much sheer mass crushing his structure? Trauma from needle jabs? Old injuries? Or quite simply, his body's revolting against him, hormonally?
Age is definitely devastating, but Ronnie's quickness of deterioration has little to do with this.
The man's physique is literally decomposing like that of a corpse.
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His legs are finished too. But his gut remains.
Ronnie is truly the classic example of a shooting star. Burns brighter than anything in the sky, but oh so briefly. Now reduced to a few particles of scattered stardust.
What causes Palumboism? Testosterone receptors that are tired and saturated after 25 years of non-stop anabolic chemical assault. His body doesn't respond to the sauce anymore.
(http://i.imgur.com/w33pjCv.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eP3rn1w.jpg)
Looks like Ronnie may have had back surgery. His upper torso looks compressed, as though he had some vertebrae fused, which would make his midsection more distended (because it is being squashed). Same thing has happened to Arnold and many others.
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Peripheral neuropathy is a bitch
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Peripheral neuropathy is a bitch
do you think youre all hot shit cuz you know words?
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do you think youre all hot shit cuz you know words?
hes hot shit because he knows big words AND because hes a big sexy mound of ivory muscle.
all homo.
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do you think youre all hot shit cuz you know words?
I know a few words.
Most importantly the magic combination of words used to remove your mothers under garments.
Ps I'm your biological father. I look forward to getting to know you better, Son.
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I know a few words.
Most importantly the magic combination of words used to remove your mothers under garments.
Ps I'm your biological father. I look forward to getting to know you better, Son.
thats fine. you have decent genetics.
so first order of business is the topic of back child support, 18 years of it. I need a new tv.
as the brothers say, lets get this poppin'
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thats fine. you have decent genetics.
so first order of business is the topic of back child support, 18 years of it. I need a new tv.
as the brothers say, lets get this poppin'
Do you take Bitcoin?
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Looks like Ronnie may have had back surgery. His upper torso looks compressed, as though he had some vertebrae fused, which would make his midsection more distended (because it is being squashed). Same thing has happened to Arnold and many others.
He had a damaged disc going back to 2000 or so. He ignored it until it got bad enough to go under the knife. But that happened after he retired.
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CFBsTlX8j30/0.jpg)
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must be the camera angle
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It isn't age. Ever see Grimek's arms in his 50's? Huge. And not even a known juicer. Even in his 60's they were huge. He was squatting over 500 for reps too. Pearl at 50 was as big as he was at 30. So were Park, Robinson, etc. Ronnie just blew himself up, and eventually out- it happens many times to those who ascend to the heights. Hard to stay there.
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Peripheral neuropathy is a bitch
Can this be corrected? What causes it, and what are the symptoms?
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This is just my theory on what's caused Ronnie's full-body atrophy, limb by limb. Again, I'm not privy to his non-public medical issues or his current HRT or AAS use (other than being positive he uses one or the other).
1) He has nerve damage LOCALLY in muscles that were injured. That would mean his left quad, left tricep, and left lat. They happened at different times and only became slowly noticeable in 2004. In TCOR, he mention a sore shoulder and a sore elbow. Supposedly after the 2006 Olympia, he admitted having arthritis in one of them.
2) He lifted heavier weight in general than most other IFBB pros. Not like in the videos. But enough to stress the joints after 25 years of doing it. Probably he has some residual tendon damage that's reduced his ROM to the point where he can't squeeze the muscle at the top like he used to in his prime (eg. doing 21s with cambered bar curls).
3) Obviously, he's used gradually higher doses of anabolic and growth agents, probably slin too, and his receptors are shot. They just don't respond to the meds anymore. Steroids are technically medication. If you use Aleve every day for 20 years, you think it'll work anymore? You'll get to 5 pills and even then it won't put the pain away.
4) He has or had a tackle box designed exclusively for legal supplements. In the 2007 video (taped the previous summer), he admitted using two different cholesterol pills and liver/kidney tablets. As far as I can remember, some were prescription. He's had health problems for a while.
5) As was mentioned, he had a spinal injury related to herniated discs in his lower back, possibly from heavy deads. That probably played a role.
6) He's freaking 49! Shit shrinks/falls apart at that age if you went to the extremes he did. The other guys that were big at his age like Vince Taylor or Strydom never came close to his freakiness.
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This is just my theory on what's caused Ronnie's full-body atrophy, limb by limb. Again, I'm not privy to his non-public medical issues or his current HRT or AAS use (other than being positive he uses one or the other).
1) He has nerve damage LOCALLY in muscles that were injured. That would mean his left quad, left tricep, and left lat. They happened at different times and only became slowly noticeable in 2004. In TCOR, he mention a sore shoulder and a sore elbow. Supposedly after the 2006 Olympia, he admitted having arthritis in one of them.
2) He lifted heavier weight in general than most other IFBB pros. Not like in the videos. But enough to stress the joints after 25 years of doing it. Probably he has some residual tendon damage that's reduced his ROM to the point where he can't squeeze the muscle at the top like he used to in his prime (eg. doing 21s with cambered bar curls).
3) Obviously, he's used gradually higher doses of anabolic and growth agents, probably slin too, and his receptors are shot. They just don't respond to the meds anymore. Steroids are technically medication. If you use Aleve every day for 20 years, you think it'll work anymore? You'll get to 5 pills and even then it won't put the pain away.
4) He has or had a tackle box designed exclusively for legal supplements. In the 2007 video (taped the previous summer), he admitted using two different cholesterol pills and liver/kidney tablets. As far as I can remember, some were prescription. He's had health problems for a while.
5) As was mentioned, he had a spinal injury related to herniated discs in his lower back, possibly from heavy deads. That probably played a role.
6) He's freaking 49! Shit shrinks/falls apart at that age if you went to the extremes he did. The other guys that were big at his age like Vince Taylor or Strydom never came close to his freakiness.
sounds about right man..
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This is just my theory on what's caused Ronnie's full-body atrophy, limb by limb. Again, I'm not privy to his non-public medical issues or his current HRT or AAS use (other than being positive he uses one or the other).
1) He has nerve damage LOCALLY in muscles that were injured. That would mean his left quad, left tricep, and left lat. They happened at different times and only became slowly noticeable in 2004. In TCOR, he mention a sore shoulder and a sore elbow. Supposedly after the 2006 Olympia, he admitted having arthritis in one of them.
2) He lifted heavier weight in general than most other IFBB pros. Not like in the videos. But enough to stress the joints after 25 years of doing it. Probably he has some residual tendon damage that's reduced his ROM to the point where he can't squeeze the muscle at the top like he used to in his prime (eg. doing 21s with cambered bar curls).
3) Obviously, he's used gradually higher doses of anabolic and growth agents, probably slin too, and his receptors are shot. They just don't respond to the meds anymore. Steroids are technically medication. If you use Aleve every day for 20 years, you think it'll work anymore? You'll get to 5 pills and even then it won't put the pain away.
4) He has or had a tackle box designed exclusively for legal supplements. In the 2007 video (taped the previous summer), he admitted using two different cholesterol pills and liver/kidney tablets. As far as I can remember, some were prescription. He's had health problems for a while.
5) As was mentioned, he had a spinal injury related to herniated discs in his lower back, possibly from heavy deads. That probably played a role.
6) He's freaking 49! Shit shrinks/falls apart at that age if you went to the extremes he did. The other guys that were big at his age like Vince Taylor or Strydom never came close to his freakiness.
And this is exactly why Jay should just continue to slim down and stop beating up his body (chemically and physically).
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And this is exactly why Jay should just continue to slim down and stop beating up his body (chemically and physically).
Have you seen that recent video of him looking at real estate at night time in Vegas? He's wearing a hoodie and looks like 240-250, tops. Guy has really streamlined a lot...not necessarily by choice.
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Have you seen that recent video of him looking at real estate at night time in Vegas? He's wearing a hoodie and looks like 240-250, tops. Guy has really streamlined a lot...not necessarily by choice.
I would say much less than 240 250.
I think its by choice.
Hes done. Hes smart, he wants longevity.
good for him. his body isnt really all that destroyed. wide waist, but not terrible gut really.
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I would say much less than 240 250.
I think its by choice.
Hes done. Hes smart, he wants longevity.
good for him. his body isnt really all that destroyed. wide waist, but not terrible gut really.
he gets ripped midsection,actually for big guy even at 300 lbs at the time he has pretty good muscle shape,round wide delts,good chest,traps are sick,legs are separated deep.230 would be fine ..
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I would say much less than 240 250.
I think its by choice.
Hes done. Hes smart, he wants longevity.
good for him. his body isnt really all that destroyed. wide waist, but not terrible gut really.
That can be doubted (about the weight). He's still one of the widest pros for his height, never stopped training besides for surgeries, and is obviously still running a cycle. To go from 310 offseason to "less than" 240 is both absurd and illogical given how he's stated he wants to compete at the O this year. Are you suggesting he's waiting until a month before the show to put it all back? C'mon.
I don't think longevity is in the cards for him if he stays on the same stack at 40 and plans to step on stage again. Which would seem likely given that he's fired one of his main handlers, probably lost a bundle when his wife left him, and hasn't placed in the top spot in any shows lately (and therefore the prize money associated). If he's out looking for real estate, he needs more income. He isn't leaving bodybuilding anytime soon, unless you have some insider info we're not privy to.
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my arms are finally bigger than ronnie's.
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That can be doubted (about the weight). He's still one of the widest pros for his height, never stopped training besides for surgeries, and is obviously still running a cycle. To go from 310 offseason to "less than" 240 is both absurd and illogical given how he's stated he wants to compete at the O this year. Are you suggesting he's waiting until a month before the show to put it all back? C'mon.
I don't think longevity is in the cards for him if he stays on the same stack at 40 and plans to step on stage again. Which would seem likely given that he's fired one of his main handlers, probably lost a bundle when his wife left him, and hasn't placed in the top spot in any shows lately (and therefore the prize money associated). If he's out looking for real estate, he needs more income. He isn't leaving bodybuilding anytime soon, unless you have some insider info we're not privy to.
did he state he was doing mro again.if so he prepped late and was light looking for him,,if he's going to do mro again he has to start getting up to 280 soon or again not enough size to place again top 5..i think he's done.
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did he state he was doing mro again.if so he prepped late and was light looking for him,,if he's going to do mro again he has to start getting up to 280 soon or again not enough size to place again top 5..i think he's done.
Yeah, he said he's doing it. Casting further doubt on the idea that he's trimming down for health reasons.
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its hard to see athletes in any sport,bodybuiding,MMA,basketbal,baseball ect trying to to go against the grain when they r clearly never gonna b in their prime again, ronnie will go down as one of the best ever n he made his mark in bodybuilding, to c him trying to recapture the glory days at this point will b a huge mistake n will only have bad outcomes imo
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its hard to see athletes in any sport,bodybuiding,MMA,basketbal,baseball ect trying to to go against the grain when they r clearly never gonna b in their prime again, ronnie will go down as one of the best ever n he made his mark in bodybuilding, to c him trying to recapture the glory days at this point will b a huge mistake n will only have bad outcomes imo
He knows he won't win ever again. But if he drops out of contests, his guestposing revenue goes down because his exposure goes down. He's trying to stay in the spotlight, though to go by the lack of videos in the last 5 months + the obvious drop in size and personal domestic problems he had last year, it's hard to imagine what he's going through. I never disliked Jay. I just felt he was dishonest, for instance writing in his CEO Muscle book that he only gets his offseason calories from clean food by upping the precontest carbs and shit like that. But they all fudge the truth, so he's no worse than Ronnie (who claimed natural for years, etc.).
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I hope he does the Olympia this year.
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He knows he won't win ever again. But if he drops out of contests, his guestposing revenue goes down because his exposure goes down. He's trying to stay in the spotlight, though to go by the lack of videos in the last 5 months + the obvious drop in size and personal domestic problems he had last year, it's hard to imagine what he's going through. I never disliked Jay. I just felt he was dishonest, for instance writing in his CEO Muscle book that he only gets his offseason calories from clean food by upping the precontest carbs and shit like that. But they all fudge the truth, so he's no worse than Ronnie (who claimed natural for years, etc.).
i agree n it makes sense to me know after reading your post, i always thought ronnie was loaded with cash n was set for life. was does a mr olympia make a yr? including the guest posing n appearences n stuff
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i agree n it makes sense to me know after reading your post, i always thought ronnie was loaded with cash n was set for life. was does a mr olympia make a yr? including the guest posing n appearences n stuff
If we only count bodybuilding revenue, my guess is
$250,000 for the Mr. O (in 2013)
$3000-5000 per guestposing, so if you consider Jay at his peak did about 3-4 per month, that's 7-10k x 10 or so (2 months he'd stop for contest prep)
and the top sponsorships pay around 100-200k.
for a guy like Phil Heath, you're looking at about a million a year.
jay did dabble in real estate, but never clarified what that meant exactly. Residential? Commercial? How many properties? Full or joint ownership?
not to mention residential real estate is really bad in Vegas atm
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If any of these guys made enough to retire and move onto other things, they wouldn't be touring the country peddling their protein powders like Ronnie does with the RCSS line. BSN dropped him, so his police pension (about 80% of his final year income, so probably 65-70k or so), his contest/guestposing winnings, and supplement sales are his main income
but consider he bought a tour bus, bought a few luxury cars, travels on the road all year (paid out of pocket)
so their overheads are high. These guys spend a lot.
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these current pics dont take anything from ronnie's greatness as one of the best ever.. he will always be 8X mr. olympia and nothing can change this.. but the question is why does he take pics now while he doesnt look good at all.. of cource he is not supposed to look anything close to his best but at least to look somehow decent if he wants to take pics.. but his physique now looks tired and torn.. so what is the point?!..
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these current pics dont take anything from ronnie's greatness as one of the best ever.. he will always be 8X mr. olympia and nothing can change this.. but the question is why does he take pics now while he doesnt look good at all.. of cource he is not supposed to look anything close to his best but at least to look somehow decent if he wants to take pics.. but his physique now looks tired and torn.. so what is the point?!..
Because great as he is he also suffers and always has suffered from body dysmorphic disorder. He sees himself as what he wants to be rather than what he is. Even at his peak of 325, he would do bicep curls while yelling that he needed to get them bigger. The psychological trauma of shrinking hasn't fully set in yet. I'm 150% convinced he's preparing to cycle heavily again and go back to his old size. It's his identity. And it will kill him.
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ALL bodybuilders suffer from BDD and are addicted to steroids
from the pro's to the gym rats to us getbiggers
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ALL bodybuilders suffer from BDD and are addicted to steroids
from the pro's to the gym rats to us getbiggers
Some more than others but yeah, image issues definitely affect the pros in the way they check themselves out every 5 minutes, in every gym mirror, and are constantly fretting that their arms aren't popping out enough, etc. Then you go to any gym and you see the same thing, I saw it just tonight with these four Arab guys on juice who were sizing each other up after every set. I suffer from it too. PIP.