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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: ismoseppo on March 27, 2014, 06:42:05 PM
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is gonna sign a 10 year 292 million dollar extension
cant wait top see what Mike Trout is gonna make in 5 or 6 years
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How does he survive on such a small salary????
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I don't think Trout will live up to his potential. Cabrera was always good, but here in the past few years did he really turn it on.
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I don't think Trout will live up to his potential. Cabrera was always good, but here in the past few years did he really turn it on.
He will.
Im a little partial though.
Im at angels stadium a couple times a month.
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is gonna sign a 10 year 292 million dollar extension
cant wait top see what Mike Trout is gonna make in 5 or 6 years
They won't wait 5-6 years to give Trout his first big deal. They'll buy out his arbitration years for guaranteed money.
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I don't think Trout will live up to his potential. Cabrera was always good, but here in the past few years did he really turn it on.
Trout's already surpassed it. His first year was one of the best in baseball history.
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How does he survive on such a small salary????
Shops at Walmart and only has sushi once a month and gets it at a grocery store.
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The contract is actually valued at 352 total
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The contract is actually valued at 352 total
Only if he vests years 11-12. Highly unlikely for a fat guy at age 41-42.
None of these 10 year deals ever work out. Eventually owners will wise up.
He's the elite of the elite on offense, but a shitty fielder and baserunner.
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Only if he vests years 11-12. Highly unlikely for a fat guy at age 41-42.
None of these 10 year deals ever work out. Eventually owners will wise up.
He's the elite of the elite on offense, but a shitty fielder and baserunner.
Off topic but the Yankees want a salary cap
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Fast forward two years or so when he starts getting a little older, gets a serious injury. He's 30 years old
These deals always suck and the teams are financially screwed. Who the fuck in their right mind assumes an athlete will perform at MVP levels for a decade straight.
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The contract is actually valued at 352 total
omg sickkkkkkkkkkkk
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Off topic but the Yankees want a salary cap
I've heard rumblings around this topic - got a link?
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nearly triple what the reigning Mr Olympia makes... total bullshit.
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I've heard rumblings around this topic - got a link?
I was just kidding. Contracts to big for the yanks even.
Do people realize he could buy the entire city of Detroit with that contract? like all of it, buildings cars people...
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nearly triple what the reigning Mr Olympia makes... total bullshit.
I dont think so. Baseball is a sport that requires many more factors than just genetics and drug receptors.... Pro BBing isnt.
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I dont think so. Baseball is a sport that requires many more factors than just genetics and drug receptors.... Pro BBing isnt.
And in BB you get guys sucking your cock under a towel, that's gotta be worth a pretty good chunk of change.
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And in BB you get guys sucking your cock under a towel, that's gotta be worth a pretty good chunk of change.
true.
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And in BB you get guys sucking your cock under a towel, that's gotta be worth a pretty good chunk of change.
that's only an urban myth. It's funny to joke about, but pro BBers don't really do that.
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I was just kidding. Contracts to big for the yanks even.
Do people realize he could buy the entire city of Detroit with that contract? like all of it, buildings cars people...
No kidding.
Yanks won't do 10 years for a 30 year old - just let Cano go for the same reason.
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that's only an urban myth. It's funny to joke about, but pro BBers don't really do that.
(http://i.imgur.com/tlfXE.gif)
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Albert pujos thinks cabera is over paid
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I don't think Trout will live up to his potential. Cabrera was always good, but here in the past few years did he really turn it on.
Exactly, the fact that Cabrera being injured is still the best baseball player in MLB makes him like from another planet.
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I don't think Trout will live up to his potential. Cabrera was always good, but here in the past few years did he really turn it on.
So far he's surpassed it.
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Cabrera looked like a 40 year old man in the playoffs against Boston. Sure he was injured but without him hitting, he sucks. Lets not forget that he's supposedly a raging alcoholic...Alcoholic's bodies break down earlier than most...I say he has 2 to 3 more great hitting years and then he'll be a Pujols...
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Yanks won't do 10 years for a 30 year old - just let Cano go for the same reason.
didn't the Yankees give Arod a new 10 year deal when Arod was 32?
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So I guess folks forgot how the Pujols deal turned out for Anaheim.
Short, convenienct memories abound!
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Exactly, the fact that Cabrera being injured is still the best baseball player in MLB makes him like from another planet.
He's not, Trout is.
Both are elite hitters, but Trout is a stellar fielder and baserunner, where Cabrerra is below average at both.
And Trout hasn't hit his theoretical prime.
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didn't the Yankees give Arod a new 10 year deal when Arod was 32?
7 years ago, and it was largely driven by the old regime. I think they were banking on marketing the living shit out of the "legit" HR champ......oops.
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Cabrera has maybe 3-4 more good yers left. 10 is going to be a waste of money.
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7 years ago, and it was largely driven by the old regime. I think they were banking on marketing the living shit out of the "legit" HR champ......oops.
do you think that the Yankees were wise to give a 7 year contract (for big money) to a star Japanese pitcher who has yet to throw a pitch in the major leagues?
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do you think that the Yankees were wise to give a 7 year contract (for big money) to a star Japanese pitcher who has yet to throw a pitch in the major leagues?
It's a risk, yes. But they've been scouting him for years, so they feel they think it will translate well.
As for the $$, one thing that's lost is the fact that he's 25, and there's really no baseline for 25 year old pitchers hitting the FA market. It doesn't really happen, so the fact that he's so young is going to inflate the totals he'll get.
Plus, given the fact the Yankees automatically drop 60M+ in revenues when they miss the playoffs, paying 1,2 or even 3M per year extra to acquire the player they want makes perfect sense. Tanaka was getting 20M per, even if the Yankees weren't involved.
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Marlins made the worst trade in Baseball history when they traded Cabrera in 2007 to Detroit!
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It's a risk, yes. But they've been scouting him for years, so they feel they think it will translate well.
As for the $$, one thing that's lost is the fact that he's 25, and there's really no baseline for 25 year old pitchers hitting the FA market. It doesn't really happen, so the fact that he's so young is going to inflate the totals he'll get.
Plus, given the fact the Yankees automatically drop 60M+ in revenues when they miss the playoffs, paying 1,2 or even 3M per year extra to acquire the player they want makes perfect sense. Tanaka was getting 20M per, even if the Yankees weren't involved.
If Tanaka ends up being just a serviceable 3rd starter in the Yankees rotation then that's gotta be disappointing (despite what the brass has said to lower expectations on him.)
I'll have one of the best seats in the house (first row behind the plate) for Tanaka's MLB debut at the Blue Jays' home opener next Friday. With all the hoopla and festivities that evening (and with tons of Japanese media in attendance), I hope that Masahiro gets rocked! ;D
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If Tanaka ends up being just a serviceable 3rd starter in the Yankees rotation then that's gotta be disappointing (despite what the brass has said to lower expectations on him.)
I'll have one of the best seats in the house (first row behind the plate) for Tanaka's MLB debut at the Blue Jays' home opener next Friday. With all the hoopla and festivities that evening (and with tons of Japanese media in attendance), I hope that Masahiro gets rocked! ;D
If he's a #3 that will work out well, but a #2 with some ace like games will be much better.
Pretty cool that you're going to that game. I'm supposed to grab a game up there with people from our Toronto office this year.
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Horrible contract. Great for him but he'll start breaking down in a few years because let's face it....as good as he is..he doesn't keep himself in the best of shape. He'll switch to DH in two years or so.
By year 4 of this deal the Tigers will be looking to unload this contract on some other team and will find no takers. Crazy contract to give a 31 year old. He should have gotten no more than a 3 year extension.
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Horrible contract. Great for him but he'll start breaking down in a few years because let's face it....as good as he is..he doesn't keep himself in the best of shape. He'll switch to DH in two years or so.
By year 4 of this deal the Tigers will be looking to unload this contract on some other team and will find no takers. Crazy contract to give a 31 year old. He should have gotten no more than a 3 year extension.
Yup. 30+ million dollar DH. Unreal!
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I agree in principle guts, but I would think 6/180 would be more reasonable. Only a three year extension for the best/second best hitter in the game is never going to happen.
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I agree in principle guts, but I would think 6/180 would be more reasonable. Only a three year extension for the best/second best hitter in the game is never going to happen.
I was under the impression he was had a couple of year left on his current deal. Even so, that's a lot of $$$ to give a future DH.
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I was under the impression he was had a couple of year left on his current deal. Even so, that's a lot of $$$ to give a future DH.
Of course, but someone else would so they'd need at least that much to retain.
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It would take a Billy Beane type of move to unload Cabrera for a littany of draft picks and ringers-in-waiting. You could build a future contender club for the next 5 years with what Cabrera could bring you in new talent.
And if the move even remotely smelled like it would go south, management would be out on its hind quarters.
It's the safe move for someone's job to throw the money at him and lock him down. What fan would say it was a bad move to lock down a two-time MVP and triple crown winner?
Of course, I like to think I would have dumped him for future talent and considerations. I wonder if I would have had the nuts to do it....
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It would take a Billy Beane type of move to unload Cabrera for a littany of draft picks and ringers-in-waiting. You could build a future contender club for the next 5 years with what Cabrera could bring you in new talent.
And if the move even remotely smelled like it would go south, management would be out on its hind quarters.
It's the safe move for someone's job to throw the money at him and lock him down. What fan would say it was a bad move to lock down a two-time MVP and triple crown winner?
Of course, I like to think I would have dumped him for future talent and considerations. I wonder if I would have had the nuts to do it....
Taking in the context that the Tigers are in "win now" mode and Scherzer's a potential walker, you'd probably keep him.
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ANaheim broke the bank for Pujols who claims he was 32, but the fucker is probably in his late 30's and lied about his age.
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He will.
Im a little partial though.
Im at angels stadium a couple times a month.
The hype as in he's going to keep getting better? I doubt it. The reason I don't see trout getting any better is because he's already a very big guy. The only time a good hitter turns into a great hitter later in his career is when he's a wiry lankey guy. Griffey, bonds, mgwire....You don't get a better eye or faster as you get older the only real dimension you can add to your game is power and at 240 pounds already I dont see mike being a great power hitter consistantly for 10 years to come
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The hype as in he's going to keep getting better? I doubt it. The reason I don't see trout getting any better is because he's already a very big guy. The only time a good hitter turns into a great hitter later in his career is when he's a wiry lankey guy. Mike is 240 pounds.
He already is a great hitter. Probably overall best in baseball. Statistical prime is around 27 right now, so he theoretically has upside, as experience grows and the body can still fire on all cylinders.
The only reason for him not really improving is that he plays at such a high level now.
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He already is a great hitter. Probably overall best in baseball. Statistical prime is around 27 right now, so he theoretically has upside, as experience grows and the body can still fire on all cylinders.
The only reason for him not really improving is that he plays at such a high level now.
Do you mean in baseball or in general? I think prime age depends on the sport.
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Do you mean in baseball or in general? I think prime age depends on the sport.
Baseball.
Although I believe it will creep up as advancement in nutrition and training and drugs continue.....
The essay is most frequently referenced as a successful challenge the conventional wisdom that baseball players peak between 28 and 32, with James bluntly stating, "that one truism is blatantly false." James used his "Value Approximation Method" (VAM) to measure player performance by aggregating individual VAM ratings of players by age. He found that the player-age of 27 had the highest total performance of any other age and concluded, "If you must assign a five-year peak period to all players regardless of description, the best shot would be 25 to 29."
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Only time will tell. Personally I don't really follow baseball anymore, the game has gotten boring now that everyone is slower and weaker. Might as well watch the grass grow.
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Baseball.
Although I believe it will creep up as advancement in nutrition and training and drugs continue.....
My opinion, I think it's slightly older at 28 or 29. But I also think that it's subjective depending on baseball position. But what do I know?
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My opinion, I think it's slightly older at 28 or 29. But I also think that it's subjective depending on baseball position. But what do I know?
That's fine, but it's hard to argue with a guy whose measured about every inning ever played by every player.
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Only time will tell. Personally I don't really follow baseball anymore, the game has gotten boring now that everyone is slower and weaker. Might as well watch the grass grow.
ahhh...nothing beats going to a baseball game on a warm summer night, the smell of the hot dogs, checking out the young ladies in tanktops, sipping a $10 12 ouncer...lol....love it.
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ahhh...nothing beats going to a baseball game on a warm summer night, the smell of the hot dogs, checking out the young ladies in tanktops, sipping a $10 12 ouncer...lol....love it.
Only got down to Camden once. Was beautiful.
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Only got down to Camden once. Was beautiful.
Yeah it's a great ballpark. One of the top 10 in the U.S. in my opinion. Now that the Orioles have a winning culture again, going to a ballgame has never been better.
Just wish the Orioles would get better pitching. But ace pitchers don't grow on trees and most teams hardly let those types go in free agency. Maybe the Orioles can make a run at Scherzer next season. Pipe dream since I think the Yankees will sign him.
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Yeah it's a great ballpark. One of the top 10 in the U.S. in my opinion. Now that the Orioles have a winning culture again, going to a ballgame has never been better.
Just wish the Orioles would get better pitching. But ace pitchers don't grow on trees and most teams hardly let those types go in free agency. Maybe the Orioles can make a run at Scherzer next season. Pipe dream since I think the Yankees will sign him.
Yeah - I've been wondering why they didn't get more aggressive with pitching the last few seasons, since the lineup had improved so much. I would love Scherzer on NY.
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The crazy thing about the Cabrera deal is that he had 2 years left on his old contract and Detroit didn't have to do anything right now. Why not wait and see if there is any decline on him over the next year/year and half and then take it from there? Crazy
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That's fine, but it's hard to argue with a guy whose measured about every inning ever played by every player.
What are your thoughts on Carlos Gomez? always thought he was a huge waste of raw talent. fucking headcase
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The crazy thing about the Cabrera deal is that he had 2 years left on his old contract and Detroit didn't have to do anything right now. Why not wait and see if there is any decline on him over the next year/year and half and then take it from there? Crazy
That's what I'm saying. Maybe his agent started chirping about demanding a trade if a new deal wasn't on the table. I think Cabrera is a bit of a c.o.c.k. sucker, personally.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/celebrity/sports/miguel-cabrera
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They won't wait 5-6 years to give Trout his first big deal. They'll buy out his arbitration years for guaranteed money.
BOOM
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24505295/trout-and-angels-agree-on-6-year-1445m-contract
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Cabrera looked like a 40 year old man in the playoffs against Boston. Sure he was injured but without him hitting, he sucks. Lets not forget that he's supposedly a raging alcoholic...Alcoholic's bodies break down earlier than most...I say he has 2 to 3 more great hitting years and then he'll be a Pujols...
You're a retard. Hope this helps.
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Fast forward two years or so when he starts getting a little older, gets a serious injury. He's 30 years old
These deals always suck and the teams are financially screwed. Who the fuck in their right mind assumes an athlete will perform at MVP levels for a decade straight.
the whole contract= money, isnt guaranteed num nums
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the whole contract= money, isnt guaranteed num nums
292M of it is, so he's correct.
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You're a retard. Hope this helps.
Everything I said was spot on...Cabrera was liability against Boston. Cost them a game when he rounded third and tried to score while the catcher was holding the ball and Cabrera was thrown out by 10 feet. It was embarrassing...He also couldn't move in the field. Are you saying Cabrera isn't a raging alcoholic? Because he is...Are you saying alcoholic's bodies don't break down earlier than guys who don't drink?
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Everything I said was spot on...Cabrera was liability against Boston. Cost them a game when he rounded third and tried to score while the catcher was holding the ball and Cabrera was thrown out by 10 feet. It was embarrassing...He also couldn't move in the field. Are you saying Cabrera isn't a raging alcoholic? Because he is...Are you saying alcoholic's bodies don't break down earlier than guys who don't drink?
He's been incident free for the past few years. Let's see how the move back to 1st base serves his body. If he's good for 5 more years, the amount of people that come through the gate will be worth the last 5 years and then some. He is Michael Jordan. Get over it.
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He's been incident free for the past few years. Let's see how the move back to 1st base serves his body. If he's good for 5 more years, the amount of people that come through the gate will be worth the last 5 years and then some. He is Michael Jordan. Get over it.
He'll never play first base. His next position move will be DH. That's where his contract becomes ridiculous getting paid all that money for not being a two way player. Every penny is guaranteed. But then again, he exposes his body to less wear and tear and that potentially will allow him to keep putting up great offensive numbers for years to come.
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He was actually a good fielder when he was younger. Look at some of his old highlights
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He's been incident free for the past few years. Let's see how the move back to 1st base serves his body. If he's good for 5 more years, the amount of people that come through the gate will be worth the last 5 years and then some. He is Michael Jordan. Get over it.
He's not, Jordan could play defense and run.
Snowman is right - Cabrerra cost his team huge in the ALCS last year. Cabrerra is a top two hitter in the game, for sure, but the contract is ridiculous, and no LTDs really work out. Less so for someone of his body type.
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He is actually a very good 1st baseman. He will be there tomorrow (opening day). Contract is huge, but the amount of asses he puts in the seats for the next 5 or 6 years will more than pay for the back end of his contract if and when he starts to slow down. He is a game changer. A once in a generation type of player. He will probably end up with 3500 hits and 600 home runs while never failing a drug test. Yes, he is the Michael Jordan of baseball. WAR doesn't matter. Do a survey of his peers and they will overwhelmingly state that he is the best player in baseball.
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He is actually a very good 1st baseman. He will be there tomorrow (opening day). Contract is huge, but the amount of asses he puts in the seats for the next 5 or 6 years will more than pay for the back end of his contract if and when he starts to slow down. He is a game changer. A once in a generation type of player. He will probably end up with 3500 hits and 600 home runs while never failing a drug test. Yes, he is the Michael Jordan of baseball. WAR doesn't matter. Do a survey of his peers and they will overwhelmingly state that he is the best player in baseball.
WAR doesn't matter? Sorry, defense and baserunning DO matter. ALCS last year was a fine example of that.
He's not once in a generation - Trout's doing the same thing despite being almost a decade younger and is far superior in the field and lightning fast.
Amazing player? Yes. Top 2 in MLB hitters? Absolutely. Overall best? Nope.
Michael Jordan carried teams to championships. So far, Cabrerra's been a big part of costing his team their best shot.
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WAR doesn't matter? Sorry, defense and baserunning DO matter. ALCS last year was a fine example of that.
He's not once in a generation - Trout's doing the same thing despite being almost a decade younger and is far superior in the field and lightning fast.
Amazing player? Yes. Top 2 in MLB hitters? Absolutely. Overall best? Nope.
Michael Jordan carried teams to championships. So far, Cabrerra's been a big part of costing his team their best shot.
There bullpen and defense cost them a championship. Not to mention fat fuck Fielder being worthless at the plate, in the field and on the base paths.
Mike Trout is terrific. No doubt. May end up being an all time great. Time will tell. But right now, with the game on the line if you asked every pitcher in baseball who they would rather pitch to, overwhelmingly, they would say they'd rather face Trout than Cabrera. To put that in basketball terms, if the game was on the line and you had one shot to win, who would you rather have shoot it? Michael Jordan or Lebron or whoever you think is the 2nd best player in the game? Miguel Cabrera = Best Player in the Game. Period. End of thread.
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There bullpen and defense cost them a championship. Not to mention fat fuck Fielder being worthless at the plate, in the field and on the base paths.
Mike Trout is terrific. No doubt. May end up being an all time great. Time will tell. But right now, with the game on the line if you asked every pitcher in baseball who they would rather pitch to, overwhelmingly, they would say they'd rather face Trout than Cabrera. To put that in basketball terms, if the game was on the line and you had one shot to win, who would you rather have shoot it? Michael Jordan or Lebron or whoever you think is the 2nd best player in the game? Miguel Cabrera = Best Player in the Game. Period. End of thread.
Oh, I get your argument now: If you ignore everything about being a ballplayer and completely isolate the game down to one rare, point in time occurance, and measure that against a hypothetical poll of a subset of major league players, Miguel Cabrerra becomes the equivalent of the best basketball player of all time. Got it.
But, if you really need to compare Cabrerra to a basketball player for some reason, he's Steve Kerr - REALLY good at one aspect of the game, while being nothing special at the other parts. Kerr actually has championships, though....
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i'd take Trout for my MLB team (over Cabrera) every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
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He is actually a very good 1st baseman. He will be there tomorrow (opening day). Contract is huge, but the amount of asses he puts in the seats for the next 5 or 6 years will more than pay for the back end of his contract if and when he starts to slow down. He is a game changer. A once in a generation type of player. He will probably end up with 3500 hits and 600 home runs while never failing a drug test. Yes, he is the Michael Jordan of baseball. WAR doesn't matter. Do a survey of his peers and they will overwhelmingly state that he is the best player in baseball.
For what it's worth, if you really did survey MLB players, the majority would take Trout on their team over Cabrera. So would most MLB managers.
Heavy hitting first basemen or DH's abound in MLB. There's a trash heap of 30HR hitters at that position who will never make the HOF. Now, Cabrera is very special. He's great. But he's not the greatest player in the league right now.
Base running and defense still have an effect on whether a team wins a game or not. The stats are irrefutable. It's not just who walks the most...the stats have progressed since the days of Moneyball and we can track how defensive play on playable balls actually impacts runs scored.
Trout plays a harder position. He plays it better than most center fielders. He runs bases better than most ball players in the league. And he hits better than most ball players. He's elite on so many levels. Based on that alone, teammates will rally around a Trout instead of a Cabrera. Even if you negate the statistical impact of how he's changed how players will be drafted for the next 5 years (trust me, every GM is looking for the next Trout...not the next Cabrera), players appreciate a 5 tool guy. For good reason. Trout is the best 5 tool player in the league right now, and no one will argue that.
Best of all, he's young, healthy, and you can build a franchise around him. So if you're a GM, you have this young kid who's going to become an icon for your franchise. You can merchandise the hell out of it. You know he'll win you more games than any other player in the league can (which helps you keep your job, which you enjoy). Little boys everywhere will want to be the next Mike Trout. He's never done anything to embarass himself or the league.
He's the Sidney Crosby of baseball. A walking, talking, playing, money making machine for owners. And players want to be on teams that win, because that means playoff bonuses and media attraction that boosts their value. It also means you see more pitches, because no one is going to pitch to this kid.
He's the greatest thing that will ever happen to Pujols and his aging body. Pujols should buy the kid a steak dinner after every game. Every pitch he sees that isn't down and away this year is a result of people avoiding Trout to get to him, as crazy as that would have sounded 3 years ago.
The only man I would allow to hit in front of Trout is Barry Bonds.
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For what it's worth, if you really did survey MLB players, the majority would take Trout on their team over Cabrera. So would most MLB managers.
Heavy hitting first basemen or DH's abound in MLB. There's a trash heap of 30HR hitters at that position who will never make the HOF. Now, Cabrera is very special. He's great. But he's not the greatest player in the league right now.
Base running and defense still have an effect on whether a team wins a game or not. The stats are irrefutable. It's not just who walks the most...the stats have progressed since the days of Moneyball and we can track how defensive play on playable balls actually impacts runs scored.
Trout plays a harder position. He plays it better than most center fielders. He runs bases better than most ball players in the league. And he hits better than most ball players. He's elite on so many levels. Based on that alone, teammates will rally around a Trout instead of a Cabrera. Even if you negate the statistical impact of how he's changed how players will be drafted for the next 5 years (trust me, every GM is looking for the next Trout...not the next Cabrera), players appreciate a 5 tool guy. For good reason. Trout is the best 5 tool player in the league right now, and no one will argue that.
Best of all, he's young, healthy, and you can build a franchise around him. So if you're a GM, you have this young kid who's going to become an icon for your franchise. You can merchandise the hell out of it. You know he'll win you more games than any other player in the league can (which helps you keep your job, which you enjoy). Little boys everywhere will want to be the next Mike Trout. He's never done anything to embarass himself or the league.
He's the Sidney Crosby of baseball. A walking, talking, playing, money making machine for owners. And players want to be on teams that win, because that means playoff bonuses and media attraction that boosts their value. It also means you see more pitches, because no one is going to pitch to this kid.
He's the greatest thing that will ever happen to Pujols and his aging body. Pujols should buy the kid a steak dinner after every game. Every pitch he sees that isn't down and away this year is a result of people avoiding Trout to get to him, as crazy as that would have sounded 3 years ago.
The only man I would allow to hit in front of Trout is Barry Bonds.
(http://replygif.net/i/174.gif)
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Guy was injured all year and still almost won the triple crown, again.
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The crazy thing about the Cabrera deal is that he had 2 years left on his old contract and Detroit didn't have to do anything right now. Why not wait and see if there is any decline on him over the next year/year and half and then take it from there? Crazy
They will make every penny worth by the time Cabrera collects his last dollar from that contract.
WoooSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H
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Guy was injured all year and still almost won the triple crown, again.
The triple crown is over-rated, mostly due to nostalgia by historians of the game who point to its rarity as the reason it's such an effective measure of dominance. And just because something doesn't happen often doesn't mean it's worth pursuing.
However, the truth is, the triple crown overly values two relatively-speaking less useful statistics (or at least, antiquated); batting average and runs batted in.
The batting average does not accurately reflect how often a man puts himself in a position to score runs. In fact, on-base percentage is a more accurate reflection of how well a man puts himself on a base, where he can score. So a real triple crown winner should be celebrated for having the highest on base percentage, not batting average.
As for runs batted in, they are not a reflection of a player's potential to score runs for his team. Rather, it's a fortuitous combination of a man's position in a batting order following other men who are truly able to get in scoring position. For example, am I a poor ball player if I put up 70rbis in a year versus a man who put up 135 rbis? What if my OB %age was .410, while the other man was only .280? Clearly, I hit the ball more (at least enough to put myself on base and not get out), so why am I not as highly valued? If it's RBI's, that's the fault of men in front of me for not getting on base (i.e. not maximizing their OB%age) and taking advantage of my hitting prowess.
Cabrera's RBI numbers are more a celebration of the effectiveness of men ahead of him in the batting order than they are of his batting prowess (as fantastic as it is).
For those reasons, the triple crown is an antiquated, albeit nostalgic and fun, baseball fact.
The fact remains, both of these statistical measures (batting average and RBIs) do not correlate to how well a player scores runs for his team, as do other more recently lauded statistical measures. And scoring runs (and by way of comparison, preventing the other team from scoring runs) is the only worthwhile endeavor in baseball. Because the team that scores more wins more games, and winning games more games than the other team is the only reason a team can be considered successful.
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So far, Cabrerra's been a big part of costing his team their best shot.
If you say so.
(http://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/miguel-cabrera-marlins.jpg?w=275)
Also you need to stop harping on the advanced metrics and then talking up what a great fielder Trout is.
He was -.9 defensive WAR last year.
The batting average does not accurately reflect how often a man puts himself in a position to score runs. In fact, on-base percentage is a more accurate reflection of how well a man puts himself on a base, where he can score. So a real triple crown winner should be celebrated for having the highest on base percentage, not batting average.
So he should have won the Triple Crown last year, right?
.348/.442/.636/1.078 187 OPS+ all led the AL.
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If you say so.
(http://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/miguel-cabrera-marlins.jpg?w=275)
Also you need to stop harping on the advanced metrics and then talking up what a great fielder Trout is.
He was -.9 defensive WAR last year.
So he should have won the Triple Crown last year, right?
.348/.442/.636/1.078 187 OPS+ all led the AL.
I agree he should have won what I'll call a modified triple crown.
I would replace batting average with OBP, which you're right to point out, he won.
I would replace RBIs, with "Runs Created", a more appropriate metric to describe how many runs a player creates than RBIs, which is often confused with how many runs a batter creates. It is not. In this case, Cabrera tied with Trout for the MLB lead, so again, he wins part two of the triple crown.
But, my final metric would be adjusted batting wins, which measures a players' contribution to his team's ability to win, based on his bat alone. In this case, Cabrera wins again.
The triple crown should measure the man, who, at the plate, is most likely help his team score as many runs as possible and win as many games as possible. In my case, my three most important metrics again find Cabrera to be the most deadly man in baseball with a bat in his hand, as far as helping his team win.
That does not mean he was the most valuable player in the league, though.
If the game only depended on batting prowess, then yes.
But Trout wins more games than Cabrera. Because although Cabrera is better with a bat, Trout makes up for his un-Cabrera like production with his bat by over-achieving with his glove and base running skills (relative to Cabrera, who is certainly not in Trout's league).
So, Cabrera is decidely one-sided with his game and not a complete player. Trout is more akin to the five tool player.
Baseball is dominated by the over-emphasis on what players do with the bat. Though critically important, recent stats have shown that the over-emphasis on offense has led to managers de-valuing (at their own peril) the skills of defense and base running.
No manager in MLB would take a speedy Ozzie Smith over a Cabrera. But what if Ozzie Smith stole 30 bases and knocked in 25 HR's and slugged .590? Then, he is more valuable than Cabrera, because he will win more games for his team than Cabrera.
As a GM, all you care about is winning games. As a team owner, all you care about is winning more games. Nothing else matters. Therefore, the most valuable player in the league should be the man who wins the most games for his GM/owner.
There is no greater value that a player can provide to his team, than helping them win more games than his peers on the competing teams.
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Also you need to stop harping on the advanced metrics and then talking up what a great fielder Trout is.
He was -.9 defensive WAR last year.
Defensive metrics in a single season don't provide much value, in my opinion. And the creator of UZR agrees.
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Defensive metrics in a single season don't provide much value, in my opinion. And the creator of UZR agrees.
Although, Cabrera was -1.5 on his dWAR. Versus Trout at -0.9.
Let's look at it another way.
If you're a GM, who do you take in 2013? Trout at $510K, or Cabrera at $21MM? Who's the smarter GM?
Versus a replacement value player, Trout gets you 85 runs over the course of the year. Cabrera is worth 72.
Trout will win you 8.9 games in 2013 over some replacement player in 2013; Cabrera will win you 7.5 more games in 2013 for a replacement player.
But with Trout, you have $20MM more payroll dollars to play with to add more runs to your team than Cabrera.
So now, who really is the most valuable player to his team? Is it Cabrera, the most deadly man with a bat? Or is it Trout, a man who will win you more games (not much more, but slightly more), and puts an extra $20MM in your pocket to buy more great players for your team to give you a shot at a WS title?
I think the answer is clear. Trout is clearly the better buy, as he's the more valuable player to his team (owing to his production as a function of his salary).
I know why no one likes to look at it like this (certainly the union, anyways). It would make fans more aware of the salary to production ratio, and allow fans to pooh-pooh greater salaries/WAR production ratios with a more fervent pitch.
After all, if you're truly a fan, would you rather win a WS title with a bunch of cheap players who find ways to win? Or watch a player on your team hit 45 HR's for $18MM but get knocked out in a playoff game?
I guess I'm part fan, part business man. I would like to win above all costs, even with a bunch of scrubs. I enjoy the sheer ferocity of Cabrera at the plate. But he doesn't win enough games to be worth $21MM, in my mind.
Now that Trout is inked to a massive friggin deal, my opinion of his value to his team will decrease as well, and I'll probably jump on some other player's bandwagon. I would have traded him last year for butt load of talent. Just saying...
I know Grape Ape will love that last comment! LOL!
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Now that Trout is inked to a massive friggin deal, my opinion of his value to his team will decrease as well, and I'll probably jump on some other player's bandwagon. I would have traded him last year for butt load of talent. Just saying...
I know Grape Ape will love that last comment! LOL!
Agreed with everything until that, yes. ;D
All potential talent sucks, until they don't. I've just seen so many top prospects fizzle, that I'd have to assume the haul for Trout would yield 50% duds, a decent player, and one that surpassed expectation. Rather have a Trout.
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Baseball geeks ::)
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Whats interesting about Cabrera is the media barely talks about him. One would have thought when he won the triple crown that ESPN would have really made a big deal about it but that didn't happen. It's almost like he's black balled from the industry. One of the greatest hitters in baseball to ever play the game and he's basically an after thought. Weird :-\
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Whats interesting about Cabrera is the media barely talks about him. One would have thought when he won the triple crown that ESPN would have really made a big deal about it but that didn't happen. It's almost like he's black balled from the industry. One of the greatest hitters in baseball to ever play the game and he's basically an after thought. Weird :-\
It was a down year for hitters when Cabrera won the triple crown. He won the batting title with an average of .330.....That's a good average, don't get me wrong, but when you look at the averages of past league batting average champs....those past averages were way above .330...the stars were perfectly aligned in 2012 for Cabrera.
Chris Davis of the Orioles prevented a repeat of that feat in 2013.