Author Topic: Prayer and Religion in Public Life  (Read 637696 times)

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #625 on: May 23, 2019, 09:21:17 PM »
If you had even a modicum of intelligence you would never had posited this dross.  For ages, men have done not just stupid things but also evil things and said it was "the will of the gods" or "God".  A Man knows that men do evil for their own gain and call it "divine will" to win over the weak.



Whoa.. hold on Scotts dude. The background is the Christian states the bible is the word of god. When the "word of god" condones beating a female slave almost to death, because it is your property, only a naive imbecile would declare that was really an order from god... If you can dispute this statement, have at it.. but stop with the superior attitude, you haven't earned it

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #626 on: May 23, 2019, 09:22:01 PM »
You sure are an inbred hillbilly.  It isn't that men do or did stupid things it's that the "holy book" sent from "god" instructs and/or sanctions the doing of stupid/evil things.

@Humble Nincompoop - Most if not all Christians still fall back on the old testament when it suits there needs.  If Christ truly brought new laws, then all Christians should renounce fully the old testament. 

Two typists.

well said

Skeletor

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #627 on: May 24, 2019, 01:28:59 PM »
He calls the money "God's blessings".

Pastor at suburban West Palm church won’t turn over $1.7 million

Federal officials say the money came from people caught in a $30 million Ponzi scheme

Calling it “God’s blessings,” the pastor of a suburban West Palm Beach church on Thursday refused to turn over $1.7 million that financial regulators claim rightfully belongs to people who were ensnared in a $30 million Ponzi scheme.

A federal judge has temporarily frozen the accounts of Winners Church and its top pastors, Fred and Whitney Shipman. In an unusual move, the father and son leaders of the 25-year-old Jog Road church are fighting efforts that would allow the money to be returned to hundreds of people who were lured into a far-flung diamond and bitcoin investment scam.

Attorney Carl Schoeppl, who is representing the church and the Shipmans, claims the church can’t be forced to turn over the money because it’s a nonprofit religious institution. It is protected by a Florida law that dictates that a donation “received in good faith by a qualified religious or charitable entity or organization is not a fraudulent transfer.” Since neither the church nor the Shipmans knew about Aman’s illicit operation they can keep the money, Schoeppl told Rosenberg.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20190523/pastor-at-suburban-west-palm-church-wont-turn-over-17-million

Skeletor

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #628 on: May 24, 2019, 02:11:21 PM »
5 former Michigan Catholic priests charged with sex crimes

Michigan prosecutors announced Friday that five former Catholic priests are facing sexual abuse charges as part of the state attorney general's ongoing investigation into clergy abuse going back decades.

Attorney General Dana Nessel said the priests served in dioceses in Detroit, Lansing and Kalamazoo, and that they've been charged with various counts of criminal sexual conduct. Four of them were arrested this week in Arizona, California, Florida and Michigan, and the fifth awaits extradition from India.

A sixth priest faces an administrative complaint and has had his counseling license suspended by the state, officials said.

Nearly all of the charges, which involve victims who were as young as 5 years old when they were abused, came from roughly 450 calls to a tip line and were corroborated by files seized from dioceses last fall and interviews with multiple victims, Nessel said. She added that the cases are just the "tip of the iceberg," as investigators have only gone through at most 10% of the information they have obtained. They also found many cases in which they could not bring charges because statutes of limitation had expired, priests had died or victims wouldn't come forward.

Those charged were Timothy Crowley, 69, of Tempe, Arizona; Neil Kalina, 63, of Littlerock, California; Vincent DeLorenzo, 80, of Lantana, Florida; Patrick Casey, 55, of Bellaire, Michigan; and Jacob Vellian, 84, of Kerala, India. It wasn't immediately clear if they have attorneys.

DeLorenzo was charged Thursday with three counts each of first- and second-degree criminal sexual conduct. DeLorenzo, who served several Michigan churches, admitted when he resigned from a Flint-area parish in 2002 that he had sexually abused a child. He wasn't charged at the time, but the Diocese of Lansing recently said a total of eight people had accused him of sexual abuse and that he was being defrocked.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/5-former-michigan-catholic-priests-charged-with-sex-crimes

IroNat

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #629 on: May 24, 2019, 03:20:57 PM »
Disgusting.

AbrahamG

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #630 on: May 26, 2019, 06:39:53 PM »
5 former Michigan Catholic priests charged with sex crimes

Michigan prosecutors announced Friday that five former Catholic priests are facing sexual abuse charges as part of the state attorney general's ongoing investigation into clergy abuse going back decades.

Attorney General Dana Nessel said the priests served in dioceses in Detroit, Lansing and Kalamazoo, and that they've been charged with various counts of criminal sexual conduct. Four of them were arrested this week in Arizona, California, Florida and Michigan, and the fifth awaits extradition from India.

A sixth priest faces an administrative complaint and has had his counseling license suspended by the state, officials said.

Nearly all of the charges, which involve victims who were as young as 5 years old when they were abused, came from roughly 450 calls to a tip line and were corroborated by files seized from dioceses last fall and interviews with multiple victims, Nessel said. She added that the cases are just the "tip of the iceberg," as investigators have only gone through at most 10% of the information they have obtained. They also found many cases in which they could not bring charges because statutes of limitation had expired, priests had died or victims wouldn't come forward.

Those charged were Timothy Crowley, 69, of Tempe, Arizona; Neil Kalina, 63, of Littlerock, California; Vincent DeLorenzo, 80, of Lantana, Florida; Patrick Casey, 55, of Bellaire, Michigan; and Jacob Vellian, 84, of Kerala, India. It wasn't immediately clear if they have attorneys.

DeLorenzo was charged Thursday with three counts each of first- and second-degree criminal sexual conduct. DeLorenzo, who served several Michigan churches, admitted when he resigned from a Flint-area parish in 2002 that he had sexually abused a child. He wasn't charged at the time, but the Diocese of Lansing recently said a total of eight people had accused him of sexual abuse and that he was being defrocked.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/5-former-michigan-catholic-priests-charged-with-sex-crimes

Thank God my new Democrat AG was there to lower the boom. 

Man of Steel

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #631 on: May 29, 2019, 08:07:13 AM »
Perhaps, but it doesn't erase the fact, that at some point, this alleged God, instructed men on how to beat a slave, consider them your property, etc. Now honestly, does it sound like a Gods law, or men of that times law?

Exodus chapter 21 and in particular verse 20 is almost every biblical objectors favorite verse to quote (and always without context of course)

First a bit of context:

Yes, I find it morally correct that the rights of a bondservant working off an individual or family debt were upheld.   That’s the progressive nature of the law that protected the bondservant (“ebed” in Hebrew) within Israel that was found nowhere else in the pagan nations of the ancient near east.  

I absolutely know the perception is that these folks were kept in shackles, practically starved, beaten, maimed, raped and treated like human garbage based on the whims of the debt holder.   Just not the case (this was not ancient Egypt or the antebellum south in US).   Simple comparisons with other ancient near east cultures will show you that the slave (not the bondservant) was treated like human garbage in those cases.   The practices utilized with bond servants in ancient Israel were leaps and bounds above the slavery of surrounding pagan nations (these were the “work you to death, starve, maim, rape and beat you” cultures).  The reality is that there was virtually no comparison between the treatment of bondservants in ancient Israel versus the treatment of slaves in the surrounding pagan cultures.
 
The Israelites that had acquired debt (ex: through failed business, theft, failed crops, etc…) and were unable to repay entered into a contract with the debtholder to work off the debt.  As was customary in ancient Israel, sometimes individuals, individual and a family member or entire families worked off the debt.  If the debt was satisfied prior to 6 years of service then that was it….the bondservant was released.  If 6 years of service came and went and the debt was not repaid in full the debtholder simply lost out and the bond servant was to be released regardless.  Often times the released bondservant(s) was to be given compensation, lifestock, grains, wine, etc…..upon their release.  Sometimes the bondservants became full employees after the debt was settled and began earning a wage (if they chose to stay on board).  Sometimes bondservants chose to stay with the family they worked off debt for and continue the bondservitude after the debt was satisfied because they developed such a strong relationship with the family they owed a debt to.  Sometimes females bondservants became spouses of the owners or the owner's children (marriages were arranged) and as was customary the owner would pay out a brideprice to the bondservants family.   Within the year of jubilee many, many bondservants were released from their service regardless of time served or amount of debt repaid.

And yes sometimes the bondservants' performance or behavior was inappropriate and they were punished for it.   Although, the laws for bondservants didn't condone the capricious beating of the bondservant, the laws were meant to discourage that behavior on behalf of the owner.  If owner did something as vile as murder a bondservant then that owner lost their life.   Everyone quotes the scripture “if the owner beats the slave and slave recovers after 3 days……then all is good”.   This circumstance was simply an exception, not the norm, but the laws were meant to govern all circumstances both the good and the bad.  If the bondservant was beaten to a point in which they could not work they were supposed to be freed.  The debtholder/owner was engaged in a contract with the bondservant and that bondservant was deemed property, but human property for the purposes of sweat equity for debt repayment that retained rights and privileges and just treatment.  The owner was outlawed from ruling over the bondservant like a tyrant….that was not permitted.  Did they work some of these folks hard?  Sure.   Was that hard work intended to be cruel and brutal and relentless and unreasonable?  LOL no….that’s a fiction inferred by ignorant readers.

God’s ultimate goal was to lead Israel away from the practice of using bondservants altogether.  The Lord works within the confines of our lives drawing us closer to him and away from the adopted practices of our hardened hearts that we freely choose to engage in.  Regardless, the Lord is patient and will allow our free choices and some our less than desirable customs to be honored with the intention of leading us away from those practices.   The use of bondservants is not the preference of the Lord though.  Bondservants were also meant to respect their owners.  Remember, some of the bondservants were working off a debt based a crime they committted against the family that held their contract for debt repayment.  As I’ve said time and again on this topic it is completely illogical that God would free the Israelites from the brutal, forced slavery in Egypt and then allow them to engage in that same behavior among the people of their own nation.    Folks will simply say “well, that’s a biblical contradiction” LOL……sorry, no.  That’s ignorance on part of the critic that has done little more than a surface reading of the scripture.  When I first read the these scriptures I was SHOCKED, but then I dug in deeper and understood the culture of the Isaelites, the culture of the pagan nations, learned some of the Hebrew terms and the definitely gained insight on the context…..makes all the difference.

Now I know I wrote all of this and some will just reply with “b.s.” or “keep polishing that turd” or whatever other witty retort they can think of; regardless, I hope this was at least helpful.  I've learned that some religious objectors love their canned objections so much that they refuse to accept resolution when it's presented....I'm helpless to do anything about that.  Most people won't even read this LOL.

The rules for slavery regarding Israel in the OT had nothing to do with the antebellum South or the slavery they were delivered from in Egypt.  Two entirely different things....one was forced (ex: antebellum South and Israelites in Egypt) and the other was voluntary/customary for debt payment (ex: Israelites post-Egypt freedom).  One was about inhumanity (ex: antebellum South and Israelites in Egypt) and one was about the preservation of humanity and rights of the servant/slave while working off individual or family debt (ex: Israel post-Egypt freedom).  The word "slave" is always incorrecty associated with the antebellum South...just not the case for OT Israel.  

Many slaves/bond servants ended up staying with the very owner/family they worked for after their debts were satisfied because they chose to.  Many became full-time hands on the owners land receiving a normal wage.  These folks weren't "picking the cotton on Massah's plantation" and then being beaten and/or raped in the evenings.....no, no, no.

I know many have serious issues with slavery in the bible, but the "issue of slavery" doesn't carry the negative connotation often force fit onto it because of the words “slave” or ”slavery”.  It’s the culture and history of the Israelites who were delivered from the forced, "work til you die" slavery in Egypt that needs to be understood.   If the Israelite that held the debt did something to mistreat the bondservant working off the debt the holder of debt was punished.  God that freed the Israelites didn't turn around and say, "Ok, now y'all go ahead and enslave and mistreat others in the same manner you were just freed from".    

Now here's Exodus 21 in its entirety:

Exodus 21 English Standard Version (ESV)
Laws About Slaves
21 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave,[a] he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. 13 But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place to which he may flee. 14 But if a man willfully attacks another to kill him by cunning, you shall take him from my altar, that he may die.

15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.

16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

17 “Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death.

18 “When men quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist and the man does not die but takes to his bed, 19 then if the man rises again and walks outdoors with his staff, he who struck him shall be clear; only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall have him thoroughly healed.

20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

*** this is purely an exception to the norm, not instruction on or encouragement to engage in slave beating.  the idea was to treat the slave (bondservant) with respect but men are often disobedient and sometimes warrant punishment, but that punishment can't result in death.  The owner of the bondservant must exhibit restraint and compassion, but if they fail to do so and kill the slave/bondservant the slave/bondservant will be avenged and the master put to death as was stated in previous verses. ***

22 “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

26 “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. 27 If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.

28 “When an ox gores a man or a woman to death, the ox shall be stoned, and its flesh shall not be eaten, but the owner of the ox shall not be liable. 29 But if the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past, and its owner has been warned but has not kept it in, and it kills a man or a woman, the ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death. 30 If a ransom is imposed on him, then he shall give for the redemption of his life whatever is imposed on him. 31 If it gores a man's son or daughter, he shall be dealt with according to this same rule. 32 If the ox gores a slave, male or female, the owner shall give to their master thirty shekels[e] of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.

Laws About Restitution
33 “When a man opens a pit, or when a man digs a pit and does not cover it, and an ox or a donkey falls into it, 34 the owner of the pit shall make restoration. He shall give money to its owner, and the dead beast shall be his.

35 “When one man's ox butts another's, so that it dies, then they shall sell the live ox and share its price, and the dead beast also they shall share. 36 Or if it is known that the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past, and its owner has not kept it in, he shall repay ox for ox, and the dead beast shall be his.

So there you go, no instruction on how to beat a slave....that's pure fiction.  God knows sinful man's hearts are disobedient so he accounts for that fact.  Context always tells a different story than simply lifting a verse off a page with zero support or casually (and incorrectly) quoting a part of a verse in "mic drop" fashion, but hey whatever helps you sleep at night.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #632 on: May 29, 2019, 09:32:15 AM »
Wasting your time with these heathens.

Man of Steel

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #633 on: May 29, 2019, 10:03:11 AM »
Wasting your time with these heathens.

It's actually not for those folks known for their definite rejection of Christ, but for others that haven't made a decision about Christ.

I do my best to present the other side of the argument that most people never hear or read.

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #634 on: May 29, 2019, 11:54:08 AM »
Wasting your time with these heathens.

Actually his explanation raises more questions than it answers...which is not uncommon when you are trying to defend barbaric behavior. For example.. he posts that if a "Master" gives the slave a wife and the wife has children, when the time is up the husband can leave, but the wife and kids stay slaves. Now the husband could agree to be branded and remain a slave to stay with his family.. We are talking about a belief that these rules came from a god, the same god that rules today.. yet to anyone with some common sense, these were obviously man made rules, rules that fit nicely into their culture. Gods don't evolve, people do.. which is why we see evolution in the bible, the authors of the manuscripts of the bible were just people.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #635 on: May 29, 2019, 12:39:17 PM »
Actually his explanation raises more questions than it answers...which is not uncommon when you are trying to defend barbaric behavior. For example.. he posts that if a "Master" gives the slave a wife and the wife has children, when the time is up the husband can leave, but the wife and kids stay slaves. Now the husband could agree to be branded and remain a slave to stay with his family.. We are talking about a belief that these rules came from a god, the same god that rules today.. yet to anyone with some common sense, these were obviously man made rules, rules that fit nicely into their culture. Gods don't evolve, people do.. which is why we see evolution in the bible, the authors of the manuscripts of the bible were just people.
You are basing your opinions on how we view things in our culture.  Slavery is not allowed anymore in our culture (personal ownership although some would argue our work culture is still slavery) but it was then.  We are assuming slaves had it bad but it was very hard to survive in that time and slavery to a rich man who could supply you with housing, food and protection from enemies could be advantageous.

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #636 on: May 30, 2019, 09:30:42 AM »
You are basing your opinions on how we view things in our culture.  Slavery is not allowed anymore in our culture (personal ownership although some would argue our work culture is still slavery) but it was then.  We are assuming slaves had it bad but it was very hard to survive in that time and slavery to a rich man who could supply you with housing, food and protection from enemies could be advantageous.

"I'm taking a more global view. I'm operating under the christian assumption that God is eternal, he never changes, he is omnipotent and he created humans and humans are his "children". He loved his "children" so much that he gave his only begotten son.. blah blah blah.

Based on those assumptions, The God of 2019 should be the same god of 2000 BC. Yet that god passed down a rule that refers to slaves as the property of other humans and gives guidance on beating them. Yeah.. doesn't sound too legit to me. Sounds like it originated from men, but that's just me.   

Man of Steel

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #637 on: May 30, 2019, 01:48:32 PM »
"I'm taking a more global view. I'm operating under the christian assumption that God is eternal, he never changes, he is omnipotent and he created humans and humans are his "children". He loved his "children" so much that he gave his only begotten son.. blah blah blah.

Based on those assumptions, The God of 2019 should be the same god of 2000 BC. Yet that god passed down a rule that refers to slaves as the property of other humans and gives guidance on beating them. Yeah.. doesn't sound too legit to me. Sounds like it originated from men, but that's just me.    

Dude, you care nothing about the response I gave.  I watched a couple of Hitchens debates yesterday and some street preaching vids and in both situations the Christian was questioned by an atheist, provided an exhaustive answer and then asked the atheist if he understood the response and the atheist essentially said he didn't really pay attention because it came from a Christian.  

Then why levy any challenges at all?  Why criticize?  Certainly it isn't because you're seeking answers.....you already came with those in your pocket whether they are right or wrong.  What I see is the classic atheist acting like Frankenstein stomping around arguments and muttering "GOD....BAAAAAD" over and over.  The Christian says "up" and the atheist says "down".  The Christian says "black" and the atheist says "white".   Even though both "up" and "black" were exhaustively explained and defended it makes no difference because you entered the "argument" relying completely on your presuppositions and subjectivity and you won't relinquish those no matter what.  It isn't a scientific search for truth or understanding....it's a game in which you focus only through the lense of the worldview and repeatedly lay out cliche coffee house objections over and over and over with the unchanging, unyielding backing of "GOD.............BAAAAAAD!!!"  It's silly, but I'm helpless to do anything about it.

So with that....MOS out!!!


Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #638 on: May 31, 2019, 12:04:51 PM »
Dude, you care nothing about the response I gave.  I watched a couple of Hitchens debates yesterday and some street preaching vids and in both situations the Christian was questioned by an atheist, provided an exhaustive answer and then asked the atheist if he understood the response and the atheist essentially said he didn't really pay attention because it came from a Christian.  

Then why levy any challenges at all?  Why criticize?  Certainly it isn't because you're seeking answers.....you already came with those in your pocket whether they are right or wrong.  What I see is the classic atheist acting like Frankenstein stomping around arguments and muttering "GOD....BAAAAAD" over and over.  The Christian says "up" and the atheist says "down".  The Christian says "black" and the atheist says "white".   Even though both "up" and "black" were exhaustively explained and defended it makes no difference because you entered the "argument" relying completely on your presuppositions and subjectivity and you won't relinquish those no matter what.  It isn't a scientific search for truth or understanding....it's a game in which you focus only through the lense of the worldview and repeatedly lay out cliche coffee house objections over and over and over with the unchanging, unyielding backing of "GOD.............BAAAAAAD!!!"  It's silly, but I'm helpless to do anything about it.

So with that....MOS out!!!




It has nothing to do with not reading or understanding your response, it is because your response does nothing to quell the problem, and typically adds to it when you add other nonsensical biblical scripture. In 2019 a rational person can easily read the rules of Exodus and clearly see they were originating from men of that time and not a god that would not only accept his creations as being owned by others, but beaten to the point of needed days to recover "because they are your property". I do understand the challenge you face explaining why a god would think it best a raped girl marry her rapist after the rapist paid 50 shekels to the father. But that's the corner you painted yourself in when you claimed the bible is true.  


Ag out!

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #639 on: May 31, 2019, 04:08:28 PM »
Dumb decision. 

NBC Edits Out Alex Trebek Crediting Prayers With Helping His Cancer Battle
By Nicholas Fondacaro | May 29, 2019
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2019/05/29/nbc-edits-out-alex-trebek-crediting-prayers-helping-his

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #640 on: May 31, 2019, 04:18:37 PM »
Dumb decision. 

NBC Edits Out Alex Trebek Crediting Prayers With Helping His Cancer Battle
By Nicholas Fondacaro | May 29, 2019
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2019/05/29/nbc-edits-out-alex-trebek-crediting-prayers-helping-his
Well, it is NBC.

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #641 on: May 31, 2019, 07:25:48 PM »
Dumb decision.  

NBC Edits Out Alex Trebek Crediting Prayers With Helping His Cancer Battle
By Nicholas Fondacaro | May 29, 2019
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2019/05/29/nbc-edits-out-alex-trebek-crediting-prayers-helping-his

I agree. If he said it, it should be in there. Whether they did or not is for another discussion, but if he credited them, don't edit it out. Unless the interview ran 3 hours and it was a 15 min segment and no ulterior motive was intended.. then... non issue

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #642 on: May 31, 2019, 08:11:04 PM »
On the same note, I have a good friend, life long atheist... was on his deathbed from cancer... people were always asking him to believe in god, he refused saying the evidence just wasn't there. He got in on a trial about 5 years ago and the medicine worked.. He has made a "miraculous recovery" that stuns the medical staff..but remains an atheist.   

Skeletor

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #643 on: June 01, 2019, 08:35:11 PM »
'Sexually violent' ex-priest pleads guilty to assaulting boy in St. Louis County

A former priest in the St. Louis area and known sexual predator with multiple offenses in three states admitted Wednesday to abusing a boy in the 1990s while he was a chaplain at DePaul Health Center.

Frederick Lenczycki, 74, pleaded guilty in St. Louis County Circuit Court to two charges of sodomy.

He was charged in February with repeatedly grabbing a boy's genitals and trying to force a second boy to expose himself between January 1991 and December 1994. The abuse, according to charging documents, happened in the same block as the DePaul Health Center, where Lenczycki was a chaplain.

Lenczycki, who now lives in suburban Chicago under court supervision, has admitted to abusing up to 30 boys in Illinois, Missouri and California over 25 years, according to church and court files.

He continued to act as a priest until 2002 despite allegations of abuse brought to the attention of church officials, who moved him from Illinois to Missouri and then California, according to advocates with the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests (SNAP).

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/sexually-violent-ex-priest-pleads-guilty-to-assaulting-boy-in/article_e492747a-c46f-518b-a5bd-a4f56793e758.html

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #644 on: June 01, 2019, 09:47:28 PM »
'Sexually violent' ex-priest pleads guilty to assaulting boy in St. Louis County

A former priest in the St. Louis area and known sexual predator with multiple offenses in three states admitted Wednesday to abusing a boy in the 1990s while he was a chaplain at DePaul Health Center.

Frederick Lenczycki, 74, pleaded guilty in St. Louis County Circuit Court to two charges of sodomy.

He was charged in February with repeatedly grabbing a boy's genitals and trying to force a second boy to expose himself between January 1991 and December 1994. The abuse, according to charging documents, happened in the same block as the DePaul Health Center, where Lenczycki was a chaplain.

Lenczycki, who now lives in suburban Chicago under court supervision, has admitted to abusing up to 30 boys in Illinois, Missouri and California over 25 years, according to church and court files.

He continued to act as a priest until 2002 despite allegations of abuse brought to the attention of church officials, who moved him from Illinois to Missouri and then California, according to advocates with the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests (SNAP).

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/sexually-violent-ex-priest-pleads-guilty-to-assaulting-boy-in/article_e492747a-c46f-518b-a5bd-a4f56793e758.html

Obviously he just needs more God in his life

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #645 on: June 02, 2019, 03:18:09 AM »
'Sexually violent' ex-priest pleads guilty to assaulting boy in St. Louis County

A former priest in the St. Louis area and known sexual predator with multiple offenses in three states admitted Wednesday to abusing a boy in the 1990s while he was a chaplain at DePaul Health Center.

Frederick Lenczycki, 74, pleaded guilty in St. Louis County Circuit Court to two charges of sodomy.

He was charged in February with repeatedly grabbing a boy's genitals and trying to force a second boy to expose himself between January 1991 and December 1994. The abuse, according to charging documents, happened in the same block as the DePaul Health Center, where Lenczycki was a chaplain.

Lenczycki, who now lives in suburban Chicago under court supervision, has admitted to abusing up to 30 boys in Illinois, Missouri and California over 25 years, according to church and court files.

He continued to act as a priest until 2002 despite allegations of abuse brought to the attention of church officials, who moved him from Illinois to Missouri and then California, according to advocates with the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests (SNAP).

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/sexually-violent-ex-priest-pleads-guilty-to-assaulting-boy-in/article_e492747a-c46f-518b-a5bd-a4f56793e758.html
So a priest sexually abusing boys means God's not real. ::)  That's some real deep thinking there.

Skeletor

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #646 on: June 02, 2019, 09:12:27 AM »
So a priest sexually abusing boys means God's not real. ::)  That's some real deep thinking there.

 ???

Agnostic007

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #647 on: June 02, 2019, 04:26:48 PM »
So a priest sexually abusing boys means God's not real. ::)  That's some real deep thinking there.

It adds to the contradiction Christians portray.

1st, Bill the deacon will tell you that God loves you, he knows how many hairs are on your head. He will go to great lengths to tell you all the great things god has done. He will tell you about prayer and encourage you to pray for this, and pray for that. He will qoute scripture that says if you have the faith of a mustard seed, you can move mountains, ask and ye shall receive etc etc.  Bill and his flock will pray for Becky to get that job promotion, and for brother Ben to recover from that flu that's going around.."Thank you Jesus, thank you for the healing Ben is about to receive"   God is good all the time, thank god Ben got better....

Then when approached about childrens hospitals full of young cancer patients, many not living past 5 years old or asked about the child that was raped repeatedly by the priest for years and god did nothing, you hear "God is not the god of this world child...Satan has reign over it. Or God doesn't interfere in free will and the Priest had free will to rape that child. Or "It was gods will that Ben succumbed to the flu, but now he is in a better place. God has a plan you know..

The fact children are dying painful deaths from all manner of illnesses, and are being raped by representatives of god doesn't necessarily mean a god doesn't exist, but it certainly indicates to any rational person the Christian biblical god doesn't.  

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #648 on: June 03, 2019, 03:02:03 AM »
It adds to the contradiction Christians portray.

1st, Bill the deacon will tell you that God loves you, he knows how many hairs are on your head. He will go to great lengths to tell you all the great things god has done. He will tell you about prayer and encourage you to pray for this, and pray for that. He will qoute scripture that says if you have the faith of a mustard seed, you can move mountains, ask and ye shall receive etc etc.  Bill and his flock will pray for Becky to get that job promotion, and for brother Ben to recover from that flu that's going around.."Thank you Jesus, thank you for the healing Ben is about to receive"   God is good all the time, thank god Ben got better....

Then when approached about childrens hospitals full of young cancer patients, many not living past 5 years old or asked about the child that was raped repeatedly by the priest for years and god did nothing, you hear "God is not the god of this world child...Satan has reign over it. Or God doesn't interfere in free will and the Priest had free will to rape that child. Or "It was gods will that Ben succumbed to the flu, but now he is in a better place. God has a plan you know..

The fact children are dying painful deaths from all manner of illnesses, and are being raped by representatives of god doesn't necessarily mean a god doesn't exist, but it certainly indicates to any rational person the Christian biblical god doesn't.  
A person sinning proves God doesn't exist.  O.k..... gotcha.

Dos Equis

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Re: Prayer and Religion in Public Life
« Reply #649 on: June 03, 2019, 01:20:54 PM »
'Because We Need God's Help': Why Franklin Graham Asked Christians to Pray for President Trump
06-02-2019
Jenna Browder, Steve Warren

WASHINGTON – Franklin Graham called on Christians nationwide to pray for President Trump Sunday. The evangelist told CBN’s Faith Nation it’s not a political endorsement, but simply an opportunity to heed the Bible’s instruction and pray for the nation’s elected leader.   

“This is not a political endorsement,” Graham said. “It’s just simply praying for the President. The Bible instructs us to pray for those who are in authority.”

Graham also dismissed critics who accuse him of weaponizing prayer, saying “prayer is a weapon.”

Franklin Graham Asks Christians Nationwide to Pray for President Trump June 2
“We can go straight to the throne of grace,” he explained. “God hears prayer and answers prayer.”

Graham said "no president has been attacked" more than Trump and that "the only hope for him, and this nation is God."

"He's our President and if he succeeds we all benefit but if his enemies are allowed to destroy him and pull down the presidency it will hurt our entire nation," the evangelist said.

Graham posted a "thank-you" to everyone that prayed on Sunday, with this video:

Graham's Prayer

In a short four-minute video posted to his Facebook page Sunday, Graham thanked his followers for joining him to pray for President Donald J. Trump. He also explained how the Lord laid the idea on his heart and quoted the scripture from Psalm 9:9-10 which reads: “The Lord also will be a refuge for the oppressed, a refuge in times of trouble. And those who know Your name will put their trust in You; for You, Lord, have not forsaken those who seek You."

"This isn't politics. This isn't an endorsement. It's praying for our commander-in-chief," Graham explains in the video. "He is the President of the United States and he needs our prayers. And God instructs us to do that." 

The evangelist then invited viewers to pray with him and then pray their own prayer "because we need God's help."

"Our Heavenly Father, You tell us in your word, the scripture, the Bible that we're to pray for those in authority. And that's why we're coming to you today," Graham prayed. "We ask for your favor on the President of the United States Donald J. Trump."

"Father, we would ask that you lead and guide the President as he makes decisions that affect not only all Americans but freedom loving people around the world," he continued. "Father, we just ask that you give him wisdom. Wisdom from you. Wisdom to deal with the problems we have at the border.  Wisdom to deal with the trading issues, trading partners, other nations. Wisdom as he meets with world leaders."

"This weekend he goes to London to meet with Her Majesty the Queen, Theresa May, their prime minister and the leadership of that nation, our closest ally," Graham said. "We ask that you guide each and every step that he takes."

"Father, we would also ask that you protect him from his enemies. Give him health and give him strength," he implored. "Today, I pray for the President's family, especially his wife Melania and his son Barron."

"Father, we're all flawed human beings. We're guilty of sin. We've all failed. We thank you that you sent your son Jesus Christ from heaven to this earth to take our sins upon the cross," Graham continued. "That he died and shed his blood for each and every one of us and that you raised him to life. And Father, we know that you will come into each and every heart who's willing to turn from their sins and put their faith and trust in your son Jesus Christ.  So we thank you for that."

"And Father, we pray for our nation. And Father, we ask that you would heal the heart of this country and that people would look to you for guidance and direction each and every day," he prayed. "And Father, we pray this in the name of your son Jesus Christ. May your will be done. Amen."

After concluding his prayer, Graham thanks the user for joining him and reminds everyone to continue to pray for the President and for those in authority -- all of them.

"They need our prayers. Only God can change the human heart," Graham said. "You can pass all the legislation. You can pass all the laws that you want, but only God can change the human heart. Our hearts need God in this country. And my prayer for the President today is that God would guide him and direct him -- but may He direct our country and may His will be done."

Kevin Jessip, chairman of the grassroots movement "Save The Persecuted Christians," is one of the 250 leaders who signed the proclamation asking all Christians to pray.

"I was really obliged & thankful for Franklin's stepping out on this issue so we joined," he told CBN News.

"I believe that the Word of God will be lifted up in this nation and that's what we need," he added. "We need the national dialogue to include the word of God."

250 Christian leaders signed the statement of faith before June 2, which reads: 

"We the undersigned are calling for June 2 to be a special Day of Prayer for the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump, that God would protect, strengthen, embolden, and direct him.

"We believe our nation is at a crossroads, at a dangerous precipice. The only one who can fix our country's problems is God Himself, and we pray that God will bless our president and our nation for His glory."

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/2019/may/franklin-graham-calls-for-national-day-of-prayer-for-president-trump-nbsp-ldquo-prayer-is-a-weapon-rdquo