Author Topic: Religion, where maybe is good enough  (Read 7664 times)

indie-lad

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #100 on: November 18, 2013, 07:54:16 AM »
Absolutely, I'll do my best so bear with me LOL!

The times I feel the presence of God occurs most often in moments of private prayer and worship.   Christians will sometimes refer to the "washing over of the Holy Spirit" LOL....I know that sounds strange.   The name of the Lord is powerful and when I call upon in it prayer or worship (at home, in my truck, even at work) I sometimes feel the Spirit of God envelop me or "wash over me".  I feel warmth all over, tingling on my skin, sometimes I feel the presence so strong it's as if I'm moving through denser air.  I feel love.  I feel peace.  I feel Jesus Christ.  Some folks have experienced sweet smells out of nowhere (I have not experienced that before).  I have felt fear flee almost instantly when I call on the name of the Lord and it is replaced by peace and warmth.  No drugs, no alcohol, no meds, no other stimuli.  Also it does not occur from inside me or radiate from within me.  It isn't an inside out experience, this occurs from the outside in.  Moments of private prayer and worship are those times where I connect with Lord.....I've literally felt the sensation as though I'm being embraced in moments of prayer.   I've even felt his presence while studying my bible or reading other theological materials.  I've felt his presence envelop me at church and when in discussions with family and friends.   I've even felt his presence while I post about him on Getbig.  It doesn't happen everyday, but I enjoy those precious moments when it does.   


Well said and I agree with you totally. It's sad that many people refuse to see, feel and believe in the power of the Almighty...it's beautiful.

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #101 on: November 18, 2013, 09:41:49 AM »
Like I said earlier.  If God exists, just go to a children's hospital cancer or burn center and tell me how any God can let this happen.
God allows EVERYTHING to happen. It does not interfere. Those are the lessons those souls need at that time. Difficult for you to understand.

El Diablo Blanco

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #102 on: November 18, 2013, 09:44:40 AM »
God allows EVERYTHING to happen. It does not interfere. Those are the lessons those souls need at that time. Difficult for you to understand.

So if god doesn't interfere then why do most religions people thank god and give god credit for anything good that happens?  A near car accident, thank god,  being cured of a disease, thank god.  They pray to god always asking for things.  God is most Christians personal ATM.

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #103 on: November 18, 2013, 09:53:48 AM »
So if god doesn't interfere then why do most religions people thank god and give god credit for anything good that happens?  A near car accident, thank god,  being cured of a disease, thank god.  They pray to god always asking for things.  God is most Christians personal ATM.

Here's from another discussion on prayer:

Hey BS....good read!

Dave’s comments presuppose that God has predetermined a path for our lives according to his will.  Dave is correct.  

As Dave concludes:  “Either your prayer is against God's will and therefore won't happen because you can't change his mind, or your prayer is according to God's will but doesn't make a difference because God's will would have been carried out anyway. Prayer is pointless. It's a waste of time.”

Appears to be sewn up pretty neatly.  

Dave also suggests that God’s perfection has predetermined the best possible outcome for our lives.  Dave is correct again.  

As Dave suggests our prayers are merely recommendations that are only valid if they agree with God’s preset choices because anything less than God’s preset choice is a step in the wrong direction.

Ultimately Dave blames God’s perfection and omniscience because he feels it invalidates the act of prayer rendering our prayers meaningless.

God is omniscient and has a will for each of our lives and chronologically that foreknowledge precedes our future choices, but the world he created takes into account our future choices and allows for his will and our will to be accomplished within the same perfect creation.  Now certainly only God’s will for our lives and our will for our lives can only be fulfilled simultaneously if they agree, but still God’s will for our lives takes second fiddle to our own will for our lives if they don’t agree.  

God desires that we desire his will for our lives, but he honors our choice to defy his predetermined will.    In essence, just because God is omniscient and has a predetermined will for our lives doesn’t mean his will is pre-executed.  We can easily defy his will for our lives.  For example, Jesus Christ desires that we all come to accept him as our Lord and Savior, but I’m gonna guess that the atheists and agnostics on Getbig aren’t going to gives their lives to Christ again today.  That said, God’s predetermined will for our lives still exists, but has been defied.  As Dave stated, God’s mind isn’t going to change either, but that doesn’t mean his will for our lives is going to come to fruition ….we can prevent it.

So why pray?

The main reason I can think of to pray is that Jesus Christ told us to pray and later the apostle Paul affirmed that we should pray (without ceasing) according to that which was revealed to him by Jesus Christ.

A second reason to consider praying is that while Jesus Christ came as the incarnate Son of God on earth and assumed a limited human form that he prayed to God the Father for guidance and strength as an example of how we should seek him in our own lives.  If prayer was appropriate for the Son of God then it’s appropriate for me…..God set the standard.  

Another reason to pray is because believers are engaged in a personal relationship with the Almighty and relationships are two-way streets.  How many successful relationships involve only one party engaged in communication with the other?  None that I’ve ever known of.  This is our opportunity as believers to consistently remain connected with our Lord and Savior and experience the tangible presence of the Holy Spirit (not the only way to feel the Holy Spirit's presence, but a powerful way).  

A third reason to consider is that the act of prayer is not for God’s edification, it’s for ours (God doesn't need our prayers).  Prayer is a means by which we as believers can strengthen our faith.  Prayer is our opportunity to draw closer to God, to feel his presence via the Holy Spirit, to worship and to seek his will.  As believers our will for our lives should always match God’s will for our lives.  Almost every day I pray and I ask God that he reveal himself through me to others and that his will be done in my life.   I pray that I am able to recognize his fingerprints and guidance along the way to ensure that he will is being accomplished and that I’m not a hindrance.  As Dave already suggested, God’s will for our lives is perfect and anything less than that is a step in wrong direction.

A fourth reason to consider prayer is that despite the fact that God doesn’t change his mind about his will for our lives this doesn’t necessitate his inability to intervene supernaturally to right the course of our lives while remaining in complete harmony with his preset will for our lives…..he is God afterall.  How does he accomplish this?  Wish I could tell you LOL.



1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
New Living Translation (NLT)
16 Always be joyful. 17 Never stop praying. 18 Be thankful in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you who belong to Christ Jesus.

The Scott

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #104 on: November 18, 2013, 10:56:38 AM »
Like I said earlier.  If God exists, just go to a children's hospital cancer or burn center and tell me how any God can let this happen.

Don't think for a minute that Christians never consider this. It upsets me no end, believe me.  Sometimes I think that God is just some kid with an ant farm.  Having said that, consider this -

All of the, for lack of a better term, "conscious evil" in this world is caused by men.  And yet  mankind, all of us that live on this planet called Earth, allow it to happen.  Who is in control of this place?  Who is responsible for this mess?  Yup.

Men.  And (some) men are stupid.  And greedy, perverse and just plain disgusting sometimes.

It matters not if the evil they do is perpetrated in the name of some God, god or goddess, especially so if you believe as you apparently do, that there is no "God".  It is done in their hearts before it is ever brought to fruition.

I suggest you question them before ever looking to any deity for an answer.   Good luck.

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2013, 11:52:54 AM »
Like I said earlier.  If God exists, just go to a children's hospital cancer or burn center and tell me how any God can let this happen.

Nick Vujicic has an interesting take on why God allows things to happen to people.  Give it a watch when you have an hour to spare.  I've heard him speak live....Nick is a very cool man.


Man of Steel

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #106 on: November 18, 2013, 11:57:10 AM »
Ken Freeman also has an interesting take on facing adversity.....he's been through it.  I've seen Ken speak live a number of times.....another really cool man with tremendous perspective.


The Ugly

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #107 on: November 18, 2013, 12:24:37 PM »
Don't think for a minute that Christians never consider this. It upsets me no end, believe me.  Sometimes I think that God is just some kid with an ant farm.  Having said that, consider this -

All of the, for lack of a better term, "conscious evil" in this world is caused by men.  And yet  mankind, all of us that live on this planet called Earth, allow it to happen.  Who is in control of this place?  Who is responsible for this mess?  Yup.

Men.  And (some) men are stupid.  And greedy, perverse and just plain disgusting sometimes.

It matters not if the evil they do is perpetrated in the name of some God, god or goddess, especially so if you believe as you apparently do, that there is no "God".  It is done in their hearts before it is ever brought to fruition.

I suggest you question them before ever looking to any deity for an answer.   Good luck.

So what's the point of prayer then?

The Scott

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #108 on: November 18, 2013, 12:51:13 PM »
So what's the point of prayer then?

I would say that it's not so much to "influence" God but rather to lean upon Him.   And in doing so, hope for the better.  To have faith is not an easy thing.  To believe in "nothing" is easy but far from comforting.

I would rather have hope in something good.  If others think different, that is fine.

Be well.

swanzi85

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #109 on: November 18, 2013, 12:53:14 PM »
God and religion are two different things. There were religions before the ones we have now and there will be religions after. Same bs different spin.  

El Diablo Blanco

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #110 on: November 18, 2013, 01:15:53 PM »
Nick Vujicic has an interesting take on why God allows things to happen to people.  Give it a watch when you have an hour to spare.  I've heard him speak live....Nick is a very cool man.



This is all BS.  People making up excuses.  If the bible is the end all and be all of what Christians believe religion to be then where is this stated?

Buddhists view is also crap.  All people must suffer before being enlightened.  Sounds like some BS guy who had a fucked up life and needed an excuse to justify it.  Muslims are no better, they believe in God as a person yet worship a black square in Mecca with a stone in it.  Kind of a juxtaposition in their beliefs.

Most religions can't even get their stories straight.  Ask a question about the bible to a Baptist, Lutheran, catholic, souther Baptist, presibiterian .... and you get back a different answer from each one.

Taliban claim to be devout muslims but they do this chant or rocking in a circle that is totally creepy that even muslims find creepy.

Man of Steel

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #111 on: November 18, 2013, 01:24:26 PM »
What excuses are being made?  Don't understand your comment.  Christians follow Jesus Christ.....it's in the name. 

John 1
Prologue: Christ, the Eternal Word


1 In the beginning the Word already existed.
    The Word was with God,
    and the Word was God.
2 He existed in the beginning with God.
3 God created everything through him,
    and nothing was created except through him.
4 The Word gave life to everything that was created,
    and his life brought light to everyone.
5 The light shines in the darkness,
    and the darkness can never extinguish it.
6 God sent a man, John the Baptist, 7 to tell about the light so that everyone might believe because of his testimony. 8 John himself was not the light; he was simply a witness to tell about the light. 9 The one who is the true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.

10 He came into the very world he created, but the world didn’t recognize him. 11 He came to his own people, and even they rejected him. 12 But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God. 13 They are reborn—not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God.

14 So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son.

15 John testified about him when he shouted to the crowds, “This is the one I was talking about when I said, ‘Someone is coming after me who is far greater than I am, for he existed long before me.’”

16 From his abundance we have all received one gracious blessing after another. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but God’s unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.

Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.  Through him all things were made.  For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.  For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried.  On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.  He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father.  With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.  We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.  We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.  We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.  Amen.



The Ugly

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #112 on: November 18, 2013, 01:38:07 PM »
I would say that it's not so much to "influence" God but rather to lean upon Him.   And in doing so, hope for the better.  To have faith is not an easy thing.  To believe in "nothing" is easy but far from comforting.

I would rather have hope in something good.  If others think different, that is fine.

Be well.

Wanting to believe and actually believing are very different things, I've discovered. I agree, believing in nothing does not comfort me at all, but it is what it is. I'm happy for the faithful, even if I don't agree with their beliefs.

Be well as well.

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #113 on: November 18, 2013, 02:21:46 PM »
Buddhists view is also crap.  All people must suffer before being enlightened.  Sounds like some BS guy who had a fucked up life and needed an excuse to justify it. 

I don't think that's it.  Suffering is bad.  The idea is to correctly understand the impermanence of things.  Then you won't suffer.

The thing that you love and want to hold on to isn't really there.  You aren't really there.  There is no thing.  There is no you.  Just stuff in transition.  Mistakenly accepting the identity of things and the permanence it implies results in frustrated attachment and suffering.

It's unique in that it's non-theistic, so I wouldn't call it a religion.  It's more like metaphysical surfing.  Religions with Gods come with the notion of things that exist eternally, and often promise that you will exist eternally, for better or worse.  Buddha says never mind eternally, you don't even exist right fucking now.

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #114 on: November 19, 2013, 02:26:23 PM »
I don't think that's it.  Suffering is bad.  The idea is to correctly understand the impermanence of things.  Then you won't suffer.

The thing that you love and want to hold on to isn't really there.  You aren't really there.  There is no thing.  There is no you.  Just stuff in transition.  Mistakenly accepting the identity of things and the permanence it implies results in frustrated attachment and suffering.

It's unique in that it's non-theistic, so I wouldn't call it a religion.  It's more like metaphysical surfing.  Religions with Gods come with the notion of things that exist eternally, and often promise that you will exist eternally, for better or worse.  Buddha says never mind eternally, you don't even exist right fucking now.

"“Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And, the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics: You are all stardust."  Lawrence Krauss



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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #115 on: November 20, 2013, 07:23:02 AM »
"“Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And, the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics: You are all stardust."  Lawrence Krauss




I confess.  Where Buddhaism loses me is with the question of the perpetuation of its wisdom within the bro.  If I grant that no physical aspect of being is immutable, and that mental aspects are evolving as well, then the continuing knowing of anatman implies a self which is [knowing] and which continues [knowing].  

So who knows anatman?

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Re: Religion, where maybe is good enough
« Reply #116 on: November 20, 2013, 08:32:51 AM »
Absolutely, I'll do my best so bear with me LOL!

The times I feel the presence of God occurs most often in moments of private prayer and worship.   Christians will sometimes refer to the "washing over of the Holy Spirit" LOL....I know that sounds strange.   The name of the Lord is powerful and when I call upon in it prayer or worship (at home, in my truck, even at work) I sometimes feel the Spirit of God envelop me or "wash over me".  I feel warmth all over, tingling on my skin, sometimes I feel the presence so strong it's as if I'm moving through denser air.  I feel love.  I feel peace.  I feel Jesus Christ.  Some folks have experienced sweet smells out of nowhere (I have not experienced that before).  I have felt fear flee almost instantly when I call on the name of the Lord and it is replaced by peace and warmth.  No drugs, no alcohol, no meds, no other stimuli.  Also it does not occur from inside me or radiate from within me.  It isn't an inside out experience, this occurs from the outside in.  Moments of private prayer and worship are those times where I connect with Lord.....I've literally felt the sensation as though I'm being embraced in moments of prayer.   I've even felt his presence while studying my bible or reading other theological materials.  I've felt his presence envelop me at church and when in discussions with family and friends.   I've even felt his presence while I post about him on Getbig.  It doesn't happen everyday, but I enjoy those precious moments when it does.   

Amen bro
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