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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Rich2 on September 03, 2006, 01:45:30 AM
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Apparently, Peter McGough doesn't like the way the MD has been attacking Flex as of late. and they're not even giving any MD staff press passes this year (which is think happened last year too). this is just petty and gay. Flex is such a piece of crap magazine.
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SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
When Enough Is Enough
Written by: Peter McGough, FLEX Editorial Director
Over the past four years Muscular Development has consistently gone out of its way to malign Weider Publications, casting doubts on our financial status and spreading all sorts of doom-and-gloom about our future. MD has also taken it upon itself to attack, in a very personal way, the head of the IFBB, Ben Weider; Joe Weider’s Olympia Weekend; and individuals within our organization.
As the undisputed, ABC-audited leader of all bodybuilding publications, we at Weider/AMI have gone about our business of producing first-rate titles, as we have for more than 65 years. We have never bragged or boasted about our position within our industry. Moreover, we’ve never responded to the provocations of MD, until now.
The final straw for me has now come with an attack they mounted on my boss David Pecker, Chairman and CEO of AMI/Weider Publications in their September '06 issue. In The Romano Factor, senior editor John Romano recounts a lunch meeting that took place in July 2005 between David Pecker and MD publisher Steve Blechman in New York. The article adopts a mealy-mouthed and seedy tone (surprise, surprise) in its portrayal of David Pecker as some latter-day Captain Bligh and Steve Blechman as a wide-eyed innocent, there only as a goodwill ambassador of bodybuilding. Steve, he the magnanimous would-be savior of the sport, receives short shrift in a gross piece of garbage that is pulp fiction at its worst.
Also attending that lunch was Kevin Hyson, chief marketing officer for AMI and a colleague of 20 years’ standing with David Pecker. I asked Kevin about his recollections of that lunch. He forwarded me the following.
“As the ‘unnamed marketing guy’ in John Romano’s article about the infamous lunch between my boss, David Pecker of American Media Inc. and his boss, Steve Blechman of Muscular Development, I welcome the opportunity to set the record straight. I was actually at the lunch that took place in July 2005 and I didn’t see Mr. Romano anywhere in the restaurant. His version of what went on is Steve Blechman’s version of what went on. Here’s mine, which I witnessed with my own eyes and ears:
First off, I am six-four, weigh about 235 pounds and am in relatively decent shape for a 54 year old from doing 25-plus years of weight training. So while I naturally enjoy a good meal, I don’t remember, as Romano alleges, “eyeing the plates like I just got rescued from a deserted island.” I do remember wondering if Mr. Blechman might need a booster seat to reach the table.
But my real reason for setting the record straight is not to defend my appetite or offend Mr. Blechman. It’s to fill in important conversation missing from Mr. Romano’s narrative.
Steve began the meeting by questioning David’s commitment to bodybuilding — this was right after David had announced that the 2005 Mr. Olympia would have more prize money for the athletes than ever before. Next, Steve asked a number of pointed questions about how FLEX was doing, questions that David answered openly and honestly. However, when David asked Steve for the same insight into Muscular Development, Steve refused to divulge anything without a confidentiality agreement. So much for openness and honesty.
What I found particularly interesting was that while David had no problem talking about the circulation of FLEX (probably because it is audited by Audit Bureau of Circulation and is a matter of public record), Steve was very evasive about Muscular Development’s (probably because it is not audited and is therefore not a matter of public record).
That first mention of the confidentiality agreement was not, as Mr. Romano writes, when David “threw down his napkin” and stormed out. The conversation actually continued in a calm manner with Steve telling David how he got into the business.
What caused David to get angry was when Steve made disparaging remarks about FLEX Editor-In-Chief Peter McGough and the quality of FLEX editorially and the magazine overall. Steve then said he was interested in buying FLEX and David said ‘why don’t I buy MD’. When Steve again refused to divulge any MD information, David had about had it and lunch was over.
There’s no question that David was angry and that we left the restaurant well before the meal’s end. There is also no question that based on Steve’s comments about Peter and FLEX and his continued refusal to be upfront about MD’s performance, there was nothing left to say.
Finally, Mr. Romano said that I when I left I looked like I wished I’d gotten a doggie bag. Funny he should mention doggie bags. My office is right across the street from the restaurant and when I returned to it, I looked out the window. I saw Mr. and Mrs. Blechman getting into their white stretch limo with, you guessed it, a very large doggie bag – one that looked big enough to contain four uneaten lunches.”
That Blechman, whose title has circulation numbers of about 30,000 at best, would adopt such a clumsy unprofessional manner in his meeting with David Pecker, who oversees a group of titles with circulation numbers in the millions, and then be party to concocting a ludicrous account of that lunch meeting, defies reason, but is not surprising for observers of the usual lowbrow train wreck that is MD.
Editorially, they have gone in more diverse directions than Dolly Parton’s main assets in a raging wind tunnel. From being renamed All Natural Muscular Development in the late ’90s and proclaiming that they would not accept ads featuring anyone who they judged had taken steroids — you should know that Romano openly boasts about his continued steroid use almost as if it is a badge of honor — the magazine has morphed 180 degrees into a pro-drugs, sleazy rag that, at its heart, undermines the physical accomplishments of the very bodybuilders it attempts to profile.
In his September column, Romano expresses wonderment as to why David Pecker would not consider selling his titles to Steve Blechman. “What? Blechman’s money isn’t green enough for Pecker?” he muses. Hardly, John. Here’s the deal, since you asked.
David Pecker has a wide and deep understanding of publishing at a level that would leave Blechman’s overly coiffured head spinning. As David sees it, the Weider magazines represent a near 70-year investment in the bodybuilding and fitness industry. To his sensibilities, Joe and Ben [Weider] and all the staff members who have been with the titles have worked too hard, pouring their life’s blood into them, for him to even consider selling them to someone like Blechman, who would promptly run them into the ground. It would be like selling a Ferrari to a15 year old on a learner’s permit.
Did it bug me that the MD crew attacked David Pecker? You bet. He defended me against Blechman’s rantings to the point that he felt compelled to leave the room. That’s what I call loyalty. For his pains, David then has to put up with Romano (somewhere a village is minus a traditional fixture) penning yet another nomination for a Pulitzer fiction prize. I respect and pay back loyalty. So I’m going to bat for my boss. In my four-year association with him, I have found him to be fair and determined and completely involved in what we do. This past year (due to taking over the reins at Muscle & Fitness and Muscle & Fitness Hers, in addition to FLEX), I have worked even more closely with him and he has given me all the support, counsel and reward an Editor-in-Chief can hope for in a boss. He didn’t deserve the outrageous portrayal that MD presented of him. A portrayal seemingly motivated by spite and a “Look Ma, I just threw my pacifier on the floor … again” mentality. I say all the preceding with complete sincerity. I’ve never been renowned as a butt-kisser and — just as Blechman & Co., are past the point of cultivating fair reporting and ethics — I’m too old to learn now.
David Pecker showed his commitment to bodybuilding by his stewardship of the Weider titles (which are enjoying their best revenue year ever) and by buying a half share in the Olympia Weekend and driving the prize money up each year. In 2003 (the year before AMI’s involvement) the prize money was $530,000; this year it is $725,000, a colossal rise of 37%.
The MD cabal has consistently and maliciously derided the Olympia Weekend, to the point of even lamenting they have to put up with what they depict as a chore. Well, here’s some good news, guys. You don’t have to suffer through this year’s Olympia Weekend because no press passes will be approved for any MD staff. Have a great September 29/30 weekend. We hear on that very weekend that the Disney Channel are running a Mickey Mouse marathon, so if you’re really attentive you may pick up some tips on how to upgrade your operation to that level. Given its track record, we fully expect MD to go tit-for-tat in response to their Olympia exclusion. So go ahead you self-styled crusaders for bodybuilding, ban us from your contest. Oh, wait; Blechman’s commitment to the sport doesn’t extend to that level.
And on that point, Steve, besides a magazine that glorifies drug abuse, slogs through details of sex and excretory acts and whines like a petulant child, just what is your contribution to bodybuilding? We look forward to your response, or Romano’s, since it’s quite clear you prefer not to fight your own battles.
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Peter McGough needs to worry about other things.
Such as the journalistic integrity of FLEX.
What the hell were those odds for the upcoming Olympia?
How the hell can McGouch blast MD for ANYTHING, when his magazine still is producing faked columns and articles by Ronnie Coleman and other pro bodybuilders?
Get a fcuking clue McGough.
YIP
Zack
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Flex was number 1 mag before because of the enthusiasm of Joe Weider. Even he didnt edit it, its enough that the Boss is great BB fan. But, he has gone.....
IFBB, M&F, FLEX.....all of them are like ghosts now. Its quite natural that other party (with enthusiasm) can threaten them. I am not big fan of Joe Weider. But, I feel it.
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Read my mind. I think theyre all feeling the heat with everything that is happening in sports right now. Barry Bonds, that idiot cyclist who tested positive and was stripped of the tour de france, a Miami Dolphin got suspended for steroids yesterday, the Carolina Panthers, etc etc. BB as a whole is feeling the heat. Time to relocate to Mexico.
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Read my mind. I think theyre all feeling the heat with everything that is happening in sports right now. Barry Bonds, that idiot cyclist who tested positive and was stripped of the tour de france, a Miami Dolphin got suspended for steroids yesterday, the Carolina Panthers, etc etc. BB as a whole is feeling the heat. Time to relocate to Mexico.
I've never seen a baseball magazine promote the use of drugs even though they play a part in the sport. I wonder why they don't have "Hit the ball out of the park with D'Bol" articles?
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Read my mind. I think theyre all feeling the heat with everything that is happening in sports right now. Barry Bonds, that idiot cyclist who tested positive and was stripped of the tour de france, a Miami Dolphin got suspended for steroids yesterday, the Carolina Panthers, etc etc. BB as a whole is feeling the heat. Time to relocate to Mexico.
aaahhhh thats right..
It was time for get out from their sinking ship.
Thats you mean?
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I've never seen a baseball magazine promote the use of drugs even though they play a part in the sport. I wonder why they don't have "Hit the ball out of the park with D'Bol" articles?
Bodybuilding is a different "SPORT" altogether if it even is one. I dont support everything MD does, dont even read it every month. Obviously they believe edgy commentary is the way they want to do business. I dont read MD but when I do i dont for the steroid columns but some people do. At least they acknowledge theyre rampant in pro and amateur bb instead of making you believe you can look like Branch Warren if you blindly follow a "12 week hard" program. Come on. Both mags have some bs.
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Still I dont get why using steroid is illegal.
I consider it like alcohol. Over 20yrs or 18yrs old can consume.
Why?Because they consider that these ages can have social responsibility.
Why steroid is not the same? alcohol has more addiction. The steroid is less harmful to the society.
P.D. I am a very natural BBer and even dont take supplement.
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Bodybuilding is a different "SPORT" altogether if it even is one. I dont support everything MD does, dont even read it every month. Obviously they believe edgy commentary is the way they want to do business. I dont read MD but when I do i dont for the steroid columns but some people do. At least they acknowledge theyre rampant in pro and amateur bb instead of making you believe you can look like Branch Warren if you blindly follow a "12 week hard" program. Come on. Both mags have some bs.
Would you advocate "Junior Baseball Magazine" running articles on what the best gear to take?
I'm sure that nobody at FLEX is naive enough to believe that "supplements" don't play a part in the sport, so maybe they've chosen to take a more responsible approach by not encouraging their useage?
MD's approach is different, though that could change as it did before.
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mcgough says that MD's circulation is 30,000 thats got to be a load of crap there must be way more than that.he already says in the article that pecker was trying to find out how MD is doing so that just proves mcgoughs full of crap and makes a number up from nowhere and prints it as fact
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Flex is such a piece of crap magazine.
Sorry, but I like Flex magazine. And if that makes me crap just 'cause I like it so be it. :-*
Muscular Development is great too! Those are the only two magazines I buy without ever flipping through the pages first.
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mcgough says that MD's circulation is 30,000 thats got to be a load of crap there must be way more than that.he already says in the article that pecker was trying to find out how MD is doing so that just proves mcgoughs full of crap and makes a number up from nowhere and prints it as fact
Well they could always sue?
Then they could go to court and prove otherwise. Problem is, they can't ;D
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I also buy Flex and M.D. and sometimes Muscle and Fitness. I like the articles in M.D. and the photos in Flex. M. and F. has gotten alot better since Pecker took it over, as the physiques are bigger and not so swimmer-like. Anyway I don't think there is such a thing as "...a more responsible approach." (speaking of steroid use) and the comparisons to other sports kinda needs to stop-not because steroids are rampant-but because there would be no Mr. Olympia without it.Literally, the Mr. Olympia was born on the backs of the steroid Dr.s(my opinion of course) Am I going to go this year-Hell Yeah- Do I accept the train-wreck that is professional bodybuilding-Hell yeah- That is not a slam on the individual that wrotethe "responsible" comments defending Flex whoever he is. Bodybuilding now at the professional level is a train wreck and I gotta slow down and view the carnage.
BTW- that article by Mc gouiough(sp) on flexonline is too long. Defend yourself with two body blows and a knockout- not two thousand shots to the kidneys.
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When MD went "all natural" they bashed every magazine, athlete and organization that were associated with a "steroid look". When it was ready to go belly up..they switched over. That is when the bb industry and fans should of black balled them...I did.
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thing is that people are saying that MD is always trying to badmouth flex,m&f there competitors but what i get from the stuff romano writes is that hes just pissed at the way things have changed over the last few years.
i used to buy flex but i stopped because i knew what was going to be in it every single month a few training articles,a 5 page spread about how broccoli and its nutrients will build muscle(with a pic of a bb stood in a kitchen with a table of veggies in front of him)and a few columns from pros thats obviously not wrote by them (i especially like ernie taylors column where he gets the obligatory comment about how good his triceps are ::) )
its just that you cant really believe anything thats written in it.its like a 200 page muscletech ad,shouldnt be taken seriously.BUT.....most of the training photos are great,its just like they know what the owners want them to write and thats what gets wrote
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I personally think the whole Blechman buying Flex is a crock and just doing it for the exposure that MD and Blechman are doing so good that they now can afford to buy Flex. He has caused a stir. I was in the gym and I overheard 2 people talking about MD buying Flex and Muscle&Fitness. I personally think it's a publicity stunt. Blechman/Romano..any comments?
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mcgough says that MD's circulation is 30,000 thats got to be a load of crap there must be way more than that.
Yeah, he is full of bullcrap.
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hahaha I smell a 30 pages debate between Horton and Manninen dude ! :o ;D
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Flex is in trouble, period. AMI is trying to dump ship probably because Congress is a comin...........
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Peter McGough needs to worry about other things.
Such as the journalistic integrity of FLEX.
What the hell were those odds for the upcoming Olympia?
How the hell can McGouch blast MD for ANYTHING, when his magazine still is producing faked columns and articles by Ronnie Coleman and other pro bodybuilders?
Get a fcuking clue McGough.
YIP
Zack
Ever since reading Peter's comments about Ronnie in the 2003 Olympia coverage issue, I am convinced the man is an idiot.
In the actual coverage, the reviewer (not peter) praises Ronnie.
In the editorial and the sidebar, Peter takes shots at Ronnie, at a time when no one else was. He could not give credit where credit was due.
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/6xo28.jpg)
Ronnie deserved praise in 2003. Not derogatory comments..
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geez, someone get mcgough a tampon already. he whines a lot.
both mags are poor. stop being babies already. its like two aids patients fighting over a condom. no matter who wins this argument youre both too ugly o get laid and youll both be dead in 6 months.
agree flex sucks,md is the best and only good pro bbing mag.
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True..in the same issue I think Ronnie had a training spread on how he build his great physique.
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He said spread.
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Another smart business move by AMI ::)
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Maybe he gives some "athletes" an article if they perform some things for him?
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haahhahah
I guess they got tired of writing articles on how to gain two inches on your bicepts in a month hahahah
meltdown city, popluation Flex Mag.
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Ever since reading Peter's comments about Ronnie in the 2003 Olympia coverage issue, I am convinced the man is an idiot.
In the actual coverage, the reviewer (not peter) praises Ronnie.
In the editorial and the sidebar, Peter takes shots at Ronnie, at a time when no one else was. He could not give credit where credit was due.
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/6xo28.jpg)
Ronnie deserved praise in 2003. Not derogatory comments..
I don't have the magazine in front of me so I can't comment on the side bar you mention. I just read the editorial online - http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_11_21/ai_111506185 - and I don't see any pot shots at Ronnie. Are these derogatory?
"He achieved greatness the old-fashioned way."
"Coleman, and Coleman alone, deserves all the kudos in the world for building the Believe It or Not physique he assembled for the 2003 Olympia."
I read the article and I see it as asking us if Ronnie should have had to arrive 40lbs heavier than in 2002 when the judges and fans said he was too light and had a distended stomach. He lost the SOS as a result.
Most people agree that Ronnie's best was the 2001 Arnold's where he was around 250. But it was almost demanded of him that he come in heavier in 2003. All of a sudden a 250lb Coleman was too small!
Now all the talk is of him being 300lbs at this years Olympia. If he comes in at 298 will he lose?
Is he better at 300 or 260?
I had a conversation with Dorian years ago when he was competing and he told me that he didn't want to walk around at 300lbs but that was what he had to do to compete. I'm pretty sure Ronnie feels the same way.
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When MD went "all natural" they bashed every magazine, athlete and organization that were associated with a "steroid look". When it was ready to go belly up..they switched over. That is when the bb industry and fans should of black balled them...I did.
They were part of a pubically traded company when they went natural. That was to please shareholders.
They switched over when the company went private again.
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http://www.flexonline.com/news/145
apparently Peter McGough doesn't like the way the MD has been attacking Flex as of late. and they're not even giving any MD staff press passes this year (which is think happened last year too). this is just petty and gay. Flex is such a piece of crap magazine.
Dumasses. All MD is going to do is use this to their advantage. They will tell all of their readers that AMI is struggling and is trying to keep out the competition.
And by getting less publicity for the O, they are certainly setting themselves up for great future event attendance ::)
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"How the hell can McGouch blast MD for ANYTHING"
Hedgehog
Dude, get a grip, Peter is not the one complaining here, it is people fed up with what Blechman & Romano have said about him.
Read BEFORE you type! ::)
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"So while I naturally enjoy a good meal, I don’t remember, as Romano alleges, “eyeing the plates like I just got rescued from a deserted island.” I do remember wondering if Mr. Blechman might need a booster seat to reach the table." Priceless.
This only further serves to prove that Testicular Maldevelopment engages in the same kind of dejecta that they so often accuse Flex of propogating, albeit for different reasons. I can't help but be reminded of that roundtable discussion with Dave Palumbo right before he went away for selling Growth. Anyone remember how that muff-bag John Romano supposedly brought "stacks" of negative feedback that fans were giving "Jumbo" on these BBS's to the restaurant? And how Romano, in a desperate attempt to get us to stop slagging MD, suggested that the negativity was actually envy in disguise? Lest we forget how remarkably coincidental it was that two new Romano-penned articles, "The Romano Factor" and "Page 69", seemed to pop up right after the "Rage Page" disappeared from the mag.
Romano, get killed, would you please?
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AMI is trying to dump Flex, FACT. Who cares? Flex ghostwrites articles and if it were up to Flex Johnnie Jackson would be on every cover, in every article, and every headline would be how he is "the worlds strongest bodybuilder" even though Ronnie Coleman is the real meal ticket. MD is the same way. Every issue is another "Lee Priest controversial story, Bodybuildings' REBEL!!!", another lame steriod article from a guy who in front of the world showed bbers and fans how to ruin a physique (Palumbo), and lame updates from their pros who say the same thing every month "I'm eating healthy and totally focused on the Olympia, blah blah blah." The only difference is 4.99 and 7 something bucks and a couple training articles that are sometimes decent and great camera work depending on your point of view
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There is no way to prove circulation for a magazine that isn't audited. They can claim whatever they want. AMI can at least prove their numbers
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There is no way to prove circulation for a magazine that isn't audited. They can claim whatever they want. AMI can at least prove their numbers
They can.
Every magazine get's figures back from their distributor.
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I have no problem with McGough's response there. I think the MD article warranted it. Obviously, everyone's stuck with deciding who's telling the truth, but if Kevin Hyson is correct in his retelling, then Blechman's a jerk and a shifty businessman (and had NO real intention of buying Flex magazine like he's claimed if he really did act that way).
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Another smart business move by AMI ::)
One could say the same about you John when you decided to insult the guy who owns the show?
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INTENSE!!!!!!!!! Next months cover, the month after that and the month after that
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brutal 5lb. plates on the dumbbell.
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Muscle Development is a great magazine and that's why I plan to run some small ads with them soon in the back pages rather than Flex Magazine.
However....
Muscle Development has flip-flopped in the past years while Flex has never done anything of the sort. Also, MD has been slamming Flex left and right in just about every magazine. The article that John Romano wrote was obviously slanted in favor of making Steve Blechman look like the Messiah and David Pecker look like the devil. The cartoon drawing of Pecker was pretty conclusive of that. Peter McGough is also right about the content of the magazine. Tons of articles describing and recommending cycles and stacks of steroids, sleazy pictures and drawing of women trannies. Questionable writers like John Romano who is a drug addict ala Basehead who's been kicked out of more gyms than the Fat Boys getting kicked out of restaurants, Gregg Valentino who has mutant arms and writes about fat girls, dirty jokes, and other crap in all capital letters, Dave Palumbo who gives out information on stacking different steroids and perscription medicine etc.
But the reason I'm still putting my ads in MD is because despite all the vile stuff they write, they also have a wide range of great articles as well as a number of fitness professionals writing as well. When I pick up an MD book, its a lot heavier than a Flex book so I feel like I'm getting more of my money's worth. And Peter should know by now that sex sells and doesn't have any room to talk since Flex post scantly clad women in their mags as well. And his assumption that the publication of 30,000 may be correct but the majority of people pick it up at places like Book's a Million or Walmart who just allowed their magazines back.
Overall Peter McGough is now being immature and not bright by canceling their press passes. This only gives MD more ammo and reason to blast Flex out of the water and lose more of their circulation
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brutal 5lb. plates on the dumbbell.
Heavier than that son.
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Heavier than that son.
ok, "dad", they don't look bigger than that.
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ok, "dad", they don't look bigger than that.
Well when you get to add a few more plates to your collection when you grow up you'll see that they also do them in 10's 15's 20's etc.
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who do you want selling your magazine?
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who do you want selling your magazine?
A newstand?
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Well when you get to add a few more plates to your collection when you grow up you'll see that they also do them in 10's 15's 20's etc.
hahahaha, you sound like another guy who believes all of the claims that pros make about the weights they claim to lift, do you really believe that Johnnie Jackson barbell military presses 405 for 10 seated? or does 120lb. db lateral raises, hahaha, i guess that's why he strugges his ass off with a 495lb. deadlift for 5 reps on BFTO'04.
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hahahaha, you sound like another guy who believes all of the claims that pros make about the weights they claim to lift, do you really believe that Johnnie Jackson barbell military presses 405 for 10 seated? or does 120lb. db lateral raises, hahaha, i guess that's why he strugges his ass off with a 495lb. deadlift for 5 reps on BFTO'04.
hahahahaha. What I do know is that the weight in that shot is genuine.
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hahahahaha. What I do know is that the weight in that shot is genuine.
you didn't answer my question.
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A newstand?
Or maybe Arnold for the tenth millionth time you good ol boy.
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Hey Kev, honestly I have seen you post a lot and you obviously know your stuff. But according to you there is absolutely nothing wrong with Flex, cannot be harmed. BULLSHIT. Why is AMI trying to dump it?
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB115024380467179519-_I4qiGDM2hxz8fmORwRJH1JE__Y_20060621.html
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LOL... imagine the Time and newsweek editors and contributors going on a message board and bashing each other.
Come on guys, you're better than this.
Focus on how you can grow the sport as a whole. Both of your magazines will do better as a result.
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Hey Kev, honestly I have seen you post a lot and you obviously know your stuff. But according to you there is absolutely nothing wrong with Flex, cannot be harmed. BULLSHIT. Why is AMI trying to dump it?
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB115024380467179519-_I4qiGDM2hxz8fmORwRJH1JE__Y_20060621.html
Simple. It's not a case of "dumping" them. They need to raise cash so they are selling off some profitable titles to reduce their debt burden. If they had no debt and were still wanting to sell them., I'd consider that a "dump".
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Simple. It's not a case of "dumping" them. They need to raise cash so they are selling off some profitable titles to reduce their debt burden. If they had no debt and were still wanting to sell them., I'd consider that a "dump".
Okay then. If something is making you a profit in the first why would you SELL it? Why are they in debt in the 1st place? The O sucked two years in a row maybe?
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you didn't answer my question.
I don't have any of the shots at hand but I'll check to see what he was using.
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I don't have any of the shots at hand but I'll check to see what he was using.
do you believe he BARBELL shoulder presses 405 for 10 seated like he claims in the latest issue?
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Okay then. If something is making you a profit in the first why would you SELL it? Why are they in debt in the 1st place? The O sucked two years in a row maybe?
Cash flow. Have another look at the article. They have approz. $900million of debt. They need to reduce that as quickly as possible so they have to sell off some titles. Any buyer is only going to be interested in profitable titles, hence the sale.
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do you believe he BARBELL shoulder presses 405 for 10 seated like he claims in the latest issue?
Why not?
Can't you do it ;D
Seriously, I believe until I see otherwise.
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Why not?
Can't you do it ;D
Seriously, I believe until I see otherwise.
so basically you're saying that this 5'6" 235lb. guy is stronger than Paul Anderson or Bill Kazmaier then.
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The part of this debate that interests me, and may in fact be the only proveable part based on facts, not opinions (about magazine quality and worthiness), is magazine circulation numbers.
If FLEX was not audited for circulation, then both it and MD could spout off any number and proof would be difficult for anyone not privy to the real numbers to prove- that would be most of us. In this situation, the numbers for FLEX are available, and proveable, but the numbers for MD, because it is not audited, are not.
I suspect, were the situation reversed, and the numbers for MD available, but those for FLEX not, many here would be screaming for FLEX to reveal that figure and wondering in various manners just what the big secret is. I also suspect MD would be printing articles summoning that information from FLEX.
Surely both magazines must give some sort of reassurance to advertisers that the per-unit/reader cost is based on reality, not on hype. FLEX, by being audited, can provide those numbers. If the cost of a page for MD is double that for a page of FLEX, then obviously MD has twice the circulation of FLEX. Or, the reverse. This is not as good a guideline as is being audited.
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so basically you're saying that this 5'6" 235lb. guy is stronger than Paul Anderson or Bill Kazmaier then.
If he claims those lifts I have no reason to disbelieve him until I see him in the gym doing much less.
I did see him do 805 deadlift and those dumbells were around 200
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I'm sure that nobody at FLEX is naive enough to believe that "supplements" don't play a part in the sport, so maybe they've chosen to take a more responsible approach by not encouraging their useage?
so by portraying drugs as having no role whatsoever, flex is "more responsible"?
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I have no problem with McGough's response there. I think the MD article warranted it. Obviously, everyone's stuck with deciding who's telling the truth, but if Kevin Hyson is correct in his retelling, then Blechman's a jerk and a shifty businessman (and had NO real intention of buying Flex magazine like he's claimed if he really did act that way).
I said the samething thing.
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MD for the win!
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Tough one.. who do you want writting articles (maybe fake but still) in your magazine....
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Well they could always sue?
Then they could go to court and prove otherwise. Problem is, they can't ;D
so then you agree, your pal McGough is full of crap for fabricating a MS circulation number
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so then you agree, your pal McGough is full of crap for fabricating a MS circulation number
No I said they can't prove they sell more than 30k.
They can prove they sell less though, that's why they won't sue ;D
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The part of this debate that interests me, and may in fact be the only proveable part based on facts, not opinions (about magazine quality and worthiness), is magazine circulation numbers.
If FLEX was not audited for circulation, then both it and MD could spout off any number and proof would be difficult for anyone not privy to the real numbers to prove- that would be most of us. In this situation, the numbers for FLEX are available, and proveable, but the numbers for MD, because it is not audited, are not.
I suspect, were the situation reversed, and the numbers for MD available, but those for FLEX not, many here would be screaming for FLEX to reveal that figure and wondering in various manners just what the big secret is. I also suspect MD would be printing articles summoning that information from FLEX.
Surely both magazines must give some sort of reassurance to advertisers that the per-unit/reader cost is based on reality, not on hype. FLEX, by being audited, can provide those numbers. If the cost of a page for MD is double that for a page of FLEX, then obviously MD has twice the circulation of FLEX. Or, the reverse. This is not as good a guideline as is being audited.
Joe - this arguement would only be true if the business model was solely based on a correlation between ad prices and circulation. It is not. I wrote for one of the magazines and have written for the other.
Kevin, people do not dump profitable titles, they dumb non-profitable titles (books) that are not central to the business. Profitable is Men's Journal and M&F, not Flex or the Spanish version of Shape. I hope you are smarter in your own business than what you write here!
Doug Kalman
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Joe - this arguement would only be true if the business model was solely based on a correlation between ad prices and circulation. It is not. I wrote for one of the magazines and have written for the other.
Kevin, people do not dump profitable titles, they dumb non-profitable titles (books) that are not central to the business. Profitable is Men's Journal and M&F, not Flex or the Spanish version of Shape. I hope you are smarter in your own business than what you write here!
Doug Kalman
First off...we don't own Men's Journal, we own Men's Fitness. Secondly, FLEX and M&F are both very profitable, and no you don't sell off bad titles, you shut them down as AMI did earlier this year with several non-profitable titles, that is what REAL media companies do. The magazines being sold are all strong performers in their respective niche as far as newsstand sales and ads go and thus the high asking prices,. What you said about not being central to the business however, is correct, in that AMI has said publicly that they are looking to concentrate more on the original core product, which is the tabloids and the more consumer titles-which requires a larger cash flow to be obtained by selling off some of the stronger, more specialised titles.
Circulation is the MAIN factor in controlling ad prices, in that companies are paying a rate based on the number of people the page will be exposed to-if less people will see the ad-then obviously the page should sell for less...which means that if MD is selling more copies then FLEX as they claim, then thier ad cost/page would be higher than FLEX...which it isn't-and you can confirm that with any company that advertises in both.
This is just truth, no slam, no lies-actual truth
C
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Kevin, people do not dump profitable titles, they dumb non-profitable titles (books) that are not central to the business. Profitable is Men's Journal and M&F, not Flex or the Spanish version of Shape. I hope you are smarter in your own business than what you write here!
Doug Kalman
Insults are never the best way to continue a debate but feel free to conitnue but be prepared if I respond in the same manner ;D
One thing you may want to do before offering an opinion is to avail yourself of some facts. M&F is for sale!.
The reason they have to sell the titles is because they need a large amount of money as fast as possible to reduce their debt. To do that, they need to sell PROFITABLE titles because they attract interest. If they put up a portfolio of magazines that are losing money, they'd be hard pressed to find a buyer! And as Chris points out in the above post, AMI would close them down.
Some investment companies look for short term returns, others invest for the long haul. AMI bought the Weider group to widen their portfolio with the intention of going public - IPO in the US?. They have incurred huge debts while at the same time seen a downturn in the revenues from their other titles.
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Insults are never the best way to continue a debate but feel free to conitnue but be prepared if I respond in the same manner ;D
One thing you may want to do before offering an opinion is to avail yourself of some facts. M&F is for sale!.
The reason they have to sell the titles is because they need a large amount of money as fast as possible to reduce their debt. To do that, they need to sell PROFITABLE titles because they attract interest. If they put up a portfolio of magazines that are losing money, they'd be hard pressed to find a buyer! And as Chris points out in the above post, AMI would close them down.
Some investment companies look for short term returns, others invest for the long haul. AMI bought the Weider group to widen their portfolio with the intention of going public - IPO in the US?. They have incurred huge debts while at the same time seen a downturn in the revenues from their other titles.
It looks to me like they are selling off titles with declining circulation (still profitable, but the profits are certainly going the wrong way). With the possibility of the government stepping up the roid investigations even more and/or more regulations on supplements - there is even greater need to rid these titles while they still can get something for them.
BBing news has moved to the Internet (this isn't like Time magazine which Grandmas without Internet connections stilll buy). What is going to drive sales back up? Another roided up gut - nope.
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The fact that Flex would bother to put this childish feud into print as though it were news is yet another reason why bodybuilding will never be taken seriously.
What do you expect from a company that also puts out such rags as the National Enquirer? ::)
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One could say the same about you John when you decided to insult the guy who owns the show?
John???? Funny how the publisher of a tabloid has such thibn skin.
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John???? Funny how the publisher of a tabloid has such thibn skin.
Yes, John. Have you bought your tickets yet ;D
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How about this? Why not make GetBig, the official website of the PDI/MD? LOL!!!
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How about this? Why not make GetBig, the official website of the PDI/MD? LOL!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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do you believe he BARBELL shoulder presses 405 for 10 seated like he claims in the latest issue?
Not the same lift, but saw a JOJ lift - 405 lbs for 7 or 8 reps, and it ain't no walk in the park.
It's a bodybuildingdungeon.com clip, saw it on youtube.
No fcuking way he does 10 reps with 405 lbs BB shoulder presses.
FLEX are letting these guys getting away with murder.
YIP
Zack
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Yes, John. Have you bought your tickets yet ;D
I'm not John and I can't afford to go to the Olympia. Maybe if John paid me more... he...he...
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I'm not John and I can't afford to go to the Olympia. Maybe if John paid me more... he...he...
;D
Ask Steve, he has to nuy a few ;D
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;D
Ask Steve, he has to nuy a few ;D
It's not like he can't afford it. And I'm very sure good seats are still available ;D
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The fact that Flex would bother to put this childish feud into print as though it were news is yet another reason why bodybuilding will never be taken seriously.
What do you expect from a company that also puts out such rags as the National Enquirer? ::)
FLEX actually isn't putting it in print...this will not appear in the magazine. It was posted on the site so that it did not interfere with our magazine, and the majority of our readers who do not care about MD or the supposed conflict that FLEX has with them, that until now existed purely of MD's detrimental remarks towards us and our employees.
You would be amazed at how small a percentage of the readerships of the mags actually pay attention to the boards as well
C
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FLEX actually isn't putting it in print...this will not appear in the magazine.
Whether it's on paper or on the website, the medium doesn't matter... it was still published under the Flex name. If you somehow think "it's just the web, it doesn't count", then you really need to wake up and smell the coffee and see how the world has changed in the past 10 years before you end up going the way of the dinosaur.
You would be amazed at how small a percentage of the readerships of the mags actually pay attention to the boards as well
You're probably correct there. Most readers of the mags are kids who actually think the snake oils your advertisers peddle will make them hyooooge and ripped, that steroids only play a limited role in bodybuilding, and that the pros actually write their own articles. ;) Most board members know better than to waste money on magazines or the useless supplements that for better or worse provide the income that keeps the whole industry afloat.
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id rather MD publish ACCURATE steroid info than have a bunch of kids out there who would otherwise have no idea how to use them and endanger their health( ie people who read flex).
also, flex probably has a name next to a picture of someone that ISNT THEM in every single issue. they did it 2 issues ago with leo ingram's name and the pic was gus carter. real professional.
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There was an awful lot of mud slinging going on BOTH ways way back when this all started back in the mid 90s. Romano says Flex started it. I'm sure Flex says MD started it. Even recently, McGough went on PBBW and bashed MD unprovoked. You can't blame them for responding. If you look back at the last several years of publication, the only bashing was recently about how bad the Olympia sucked. I guess things heated up lately because Bleckman wanted to buy Flex and they wouldn't let him? Keeping MD out of the Olympia is only going to amount to whoever goes from MD will have to buy a ticket. Big deal. Flex Wheeler is president of Hard Body Ent. They will not deny their title sponsor a press seat. So, they will get photos and they will get to be there. And if the show sux like last year, they will bash the shit out of it. It would be better for the industry industry if everyone got along.
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It would be better for the industry industry if everyone got along.
Nobody would disagree with you John. Pity you didn't think that way sooner?
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Nobody would disagree with you John. Pity you didn't think that way sooner?
A - I'm nt john. But if it makes you happy to think so, be my guest. He's a great guy to work for.
B - I've always thought that
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horton, you are such a kiss ass. youd work for whoever had a chek for you. if flex closed up, youd be mailing a resume to md.
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Yes, John. Have you bought your tickets yet ;D
I've avoided this - but are you mocking Romano, Kevin?
You're better than that. You're admired by your peers. You're better than mocking a guy for having to buy a ticket when the decision is made over both of your heads.
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Flex magazine was better in the 90's when they weren't afraid to talk about anything. They had a 10 page article about insulin when it was just becoming popular. I appreciated honesty like that. They didn't bullshit around talking about getting huge through a BCAA + creatine stack like they do now.
I love MD because it's like what Flex used to be but with better photography. Palumbo's advice on using steroids sometimes jars, particularly when he suggests GH in a virgin cycle, but it's still enjoyable to read.
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J.Jackson is a great guy and BB but, If you look close enough and the trained eye can tell the last four plates were photoshopped in...nough said!
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J.Jackson is a great guy and BB but, If you look close enough and the trained eye can tell the last four plates were photoshopped in...nough said!
Well you need to get your eyes examined then because that dunbell is real and no plates were added to it by photoshop, withcraft or little men in flying saucers.
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J.Jackson is a great guy and BB but, If you look close enough and the trained eye can tell the last four plates were photoshopped in...nough said!
Absolute bullshit! I'll show you the contact sheet from the original film Kevin sent me-there are no photoshopped plates on that file whatsoever. Obviously you don't have the trained eye you are talking about.
The photoshop on that image is to make the BG have the red tone to make JJ stand out better and pop off the cover.
I don't think the photoshopped cover discussion is one we want to get into here if you are trying to support MD
C
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Absolute bullshit! I'll show you the contact sheet from the original film Kevin sent me-there are no photoshopped plates on that file whatsoever. Obviously you don't have the trained eye you are talking about.
The photoshop on that image is to make the BG have the red tone to make JJ stand out better and pop off the cover.
I don't think the photoshopped cover discussion is one we want to get into here if you are trying to support MD
C
Im not trying to support MD or Flex..I just want to see all you morons melt down!.....
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There are some very good photoshop artists here. I'm sure if there's anything shady, they'd know it.
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I've avoided this - but are you mocking Romano, Kevin?
You're better than that. You're admired by your peers. You're better than mocking a guy for having to buy a ticket when the decision is made over both of your heads.
I must confess to stooping a little low but John has enjoyed repeatedly attacking a very good friend of mine.
There is a group of photographers and writers at the shows and we all get along. Bill Comstocl works for Ironman, Flex Wheeler shoots for MD, Rakph DeHaan shoots for MuscleMag. I look forward to seeing those guys at the shows. There is absolutely no problems with any of us. We're competetive, we believe our titles to be the best, but we'll help each other out if we have a problem. That's being professional.
We all enjoy a friendly rivalry, excpet for John who chooses to insult people.
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There are some very good photoshop artists here. I'm sure if there's anything shady, they'd know it.
It's genuine.
If anyone wants to gamble otherwise I'm happy to take wager. You can be the banker.
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I must confess to stooping a little low but John has enjoyed repeatedly attacking a very good friend of mine.
There is a group of photographers and writers at the shows and we all get along. Bill Comstocl works for Ironman, Flex Wheeler shoots for MD, Rakph DeHaan shoots for MuscleMag. I look forward to seeing those guys at the shows. There is absolutely no problems with any of us. We're competetive, we believe our titles to be the best, but we'll help each other out if we have a problem. That's being professional.
We all enjoy a friendly rivalry, excpet for John who chooses to insult people.
Maybe he was insulted first. You ever think of that Kevin? Your boy is not a saint.
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It's genuine.
If anyone wants to gamble otherwise I'm happy to take wager. You can be the banker.
I can't tell, but I'm not an expert. Another shot or two from that same shoot might shut people up.
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I must confess to stooping a little low but John has enjoyed repeatedly attacking a very good friend of mine.
There is a group of photographers and writers at the shows and we all get along. Bill Comstocl works for Ironman, Flex Wheeler shoots for MD, Rakph DeHaan shoots for MuscleMag. I look forward to seeing those guys at the shows. There is absolutely no problems with any of us. We're competetive, we believe our titles to be the best, but we'll help each other out if we have a problem. That's being professional.
We all enjoy a friendly rivalry, excpet for John who chooses to insult people.
John Romano? I can't recall ever butting heads with the guy...
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I can't tell, but I'm not an expert. Another shot or two from that same shoot might shut people up.
Let's wait a couple of minutes and see if one of the "experts" tales the bet ;D
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Let the conspiracy begin
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It's sunday night labor day weekend....cant everybody just get along?? Drink a beer and enjoy a BBQ..................... ...
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There are some very good photoshop artists here. I'm sure if there's anything shady, they'd know it.
I've spoken to you before 240, and I can tell you that shot is real-and yes-the entire series would prove it to you-if I remember on Tuesday I'll send you another one.
Why the hell would we add a ton more plates to that-the whole reason for the shot was that the weight was impressive, why make up the most important part of the shot.
Also, whoever said "meltdown", us coming back and saying that the claim about the plates being fake isn't true is hardly a meltdown, seems like it's way too easy for someone to be called ona meltdown lately-I remember when a guy really needed to lose it before anyone claimed that
C
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Let the conspiracy begin
or Kevin could do it for me
C
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Maybe he was insulted first. You ever think of that Kevin? Your boy is not a saint.
I honestly don't recall Peter writing anything insulting about anyone.
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I honestly don't recall Peter writing anything insulting about anyone.
Well then you have a very bad memory or you haven't been around long enough. I work for Romano, and have for years. I have all the articles going all the way back in my files. This whole thing all boils down to Peter McGough. He started it. He came off all mightier than thou, and now he's crying about personal attacks? He's pathetic. That's one of the reasons why 99% of all the posts pertaining to this topic are in favor of MD.
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They have some guys who produces quality at MD.
Romano isn't one of them.
He's a little too creative in his articles, exaggretions are a norm.
Manninen, Wheeler(!), Thomas Fahey.
But Romano? No.
YIP
Zack
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I am that "trained" eye in PhotoShop and it is not cloned in. You can tell from the shadow and lighting patterns. And aside from that I would take the word of Kevin. There are a few people who sit in that front row at shows shooting photos who care about what we do.
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I've spoken to you before 240, and I can tell you that shot is real-and yes-the entire series would prove it to you-if I remember on Tuesday I'll send you another one.
yep - looks like horton put that theory to bed with the small shots.
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Well then you have a very bad memory or you haven't been around long enough. I work for Romano, and have for years. I have all the articles going all the way back in my files. This whole thing all boils down to Peter McGough. He started it. He came off all mightier than thou, and now he's crying about personal attacks? He's pathetic. That's one of the reasons why 99% of all the posts pertaining to this topic are in favor of MD.
I would say let it go.
I have been fucked over numerous times in life and I just want to get back at the people doing it. Most recently I was owed a total of $3,000 in back rent from my friends who were living here. When I started to get strict about it, they had the nerve to take it out on me. This is one of many times I've been in the right and got the short end of the stick despite that. But you know something? Why bother - I always regret getting angry about it. I would say the same thing to Romano. He should be the bigger man about it. He will look better by doing so.
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Well then you have a very bad memory or you haven't been around long enough. I work for Romano, and have for years. I have all the articles going all the way back in my files. This whole thing all boils down to Peter McGough. He started it. He came off all mightier than thou, and now he's crying about personal attacks? He's pathetic. That's one of the reasons why 99% of all the posts pertaining to this topic are in favor of MD.
Well I've been involved in this business for close to 20 years and have known Peter that long. As I said, I don't recall him insulting anyone.
Since John started his attacks I don't remember a single response printed in FLEX. Maybe John saw this silence as a sign of weakness and felt empowered to continue? Who knows?
John is a talented writer who should realise that there really is no need for personal insults in any business, especially as one as small as ours. We should all be working together to make the sport grow not ripping each other apart.
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First off...we don't own Men's Journal, we own Men's Fitness. Secondly, FLEX and M&F are both very profitable, and no you don't sell off bad titles, you shut them down as AMI did earlier this year with several non-profitable titles, that is what REAL media companies do. The magazines being sold are all strong performers in their respective niche as far as newsstand sales and ads go and thus the high asking prices,. What you said about not being central to the business however, is correct, in that AMI has said publicly that they are looking to concentrate more on the original core product, which is the tabloids and the more consumer titles-which requires a larger cash flow to be obtained by selling off some of the stronger, more specialised titles.
Circulation is the MAIN factor in controlling ad prices, in that companies are paying a rate based on the number of people the page will be exposed to-if less people will see the ad-then obviously the page should sell for less...which means that if MD is selling more copies then FLEX as they claim, then thier ad cost/page would be higher than FLEX...which it isn't-and you can confirm that with any company that advertises in both.
This is just truth, no slam, no lies-actual truth
C
Mr C (thank you for using your real name!),
AMI is dumping the non-core non-profitable magazines. yes, I made a mistake, I meant Men's Fitness, not Men's Journal. As AMI is a public company you know that Pecker's actual job is on the line here because of almost bringing AMI 1 billion into the red (that is a lot of money).
If we want to switch the arguement for a second to quality of each respective book, I believe that MD offers the reader and the buyer more for the sales buck at newstand price. Flex used to be a very good read back when Chris Street and Joey Antonio and a few others wrote for it. It has lost its panache and for sure, like MD is a niche magazine (none of these are Details, Men's Health or even Wired)
One concept in business is to keep price to the ad buyer low and instead of raising rates to correlate with absolute sales, rather emlarge the book (magazine) and allow more people to place ads thus increwasing the ad spend on each magazine (from advertisers) while not having to increase the newstand price. This also allows the publisher to pay each "athlete" for photo's (unnlike AMI) and the pay rate to the contract writers to be better than Flex (again, I have written for both so I know the pay rates across the board on a per article or yearly contract basis).
So, on quality, MD wins, on circulation, i have no idea, on Steve B being truthful in hs re-telling of his meeting with Pecker in the last issue, I believe Steve, he has never not been straight (always a straight shooter) and the best part is that he truly cares about BB and the "athlete's".
Let's see what happens next year....when AMI does not run the Mr O, be quite certain that MD will be at the Olym[ia this year, no matter what Peter M writes.
Doug Kalman
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AMI is dumping the non-core non-profitable magazines. yes, I made a mistake, I meant Men's Fitness, not Men's Journal.Doug Kalman
Doug,
You're making a mistake again. They are selling profitable magazines.
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Well you need to get your eyes examined then because that dunbell is real and no plates were added to it by photoshop, withcraft or little men in flying saucers.
Kevin,
just curious- are you asserting that FLEX does not photoshop or alter any of its images?
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Well I've been involved in this business for close to 20 years and have known Peter that long. As I said, I don't recall him insulting anyone.
Since John started his attacks I don't remember a single response printed in FLEX. Maybe John saw this silence as a sign of weakness and felt empowered to continue? Who knows?
John is a talented writer who should realise that there really is no need for personal insults in any business, especially as one as small as ours. We should all be working together to make the sport grow not ripping each other apart.
Kevin, with all due respect, you are wrong. McGough started it. Romano responded. It doesn't matter when or how long ago, it matters that it did happen that way. McGough started it. Maybe John responded too much, but that never would have happened had he not been provoked. I can tell you that he would never have taken this to a personal level had McGough not instigated it. I have worked for John for a littel over 10 years and that is not his style. Many more people like him than not. That's where this whole thing is coming from. MCGough started it. I know Romano tried to end it but McGough doesn't want to. I totally agree with you that we should all be working together. That is what it best for everyone.
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AMIs boy Johnnie O Jackson won and it hasnt hit the frontpage on flexonline.com what a shock! Expect wall to wall coverage for the next six months.
"Worlds Strongest Bodybuilder TOP 3 at Olympia?" Cant hear it now even two months after the show has come and gone.
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Doug,
You're making a mistake again. They are selling profitable magazines.
Kevin,
If they are keeping Men's Fitness and M&F, but selling Flex - are you saying that those that they are keeping are not-profitable, but for the sake of "better business" they are selling their profitable books? Makes no sense. You keep what makes money and does not bleed, you kill off or sell what bleeds or is less profitable. Gives the investor the better bang for their long-term dollar, no?
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Kevin,
If they are keeping Men's Fitness and M&F, but selling Flex - are you saying that those that they are keeping are not-profitable, but for the sake of "better business" they are selling their profitable books? Makes no sense. You keep what makes money and does not bleed, you kill off or sell what bleeds or is less profitable. Gives the investor the better bang for their long-term dollar, no?
They are selling magazines that make around $30 million a year in profit. I call that profitable. They are also retaining a number of their title which are also profitable, some more so.
You've posted a number of times stating that they are selling non-profitable titles. I'm just correcting you.
Kevin
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kevin,
Are each magazines true financials (not the MI's numbers) listed in AMI's Wall Street quarterly filings?
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kevin,
Are each magazines true financials (not the MI's numbers) listed in AMI's Wall Street quarterly filings?
No idea.
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Mr C (thank you for using your real name!),
AMI is dumping the non-core non-profitable magazines. yes, I made a mistake, I meant Men's Fitness, not Men's Journal. As AMI is a public company you know that Pecker's actual job is on the line here because of almost bringing AMI 1 billion into the red (that is a lot of money).
If we want to switch the arguement for a second to quality of each respective book, I believe that MD offers the reader and the buyer more for the sales buck at newstand price. Flex used to be a very good read back when Chris Street and Joey Antonio and a few others wrote for it. It has lost its panache and for sure, like MD is a niche magazine (none of these are Details, Men's Health or even Wired)
One concept in business is to keep price to the ad buyer low and instead of raising rates to correlate with absolute sales, rather emlarge the book (magazine) and allow more people to place ads thus increwasing the ad spend on each magazine (from advertisers) while not having to increase the newstand price. This also allows the publisher to pay each "athlete" for photo's (unnlike AMI) and the pay rate to the contract writers to be better than Flex (again, I have written for both so I know the pay rates across the board on a per article or yearly contract basis).
So, on quality, MD wins, on circulation, i have no idea, on Steve B being truthful in hs re-telling of his meeting with Pecker in the last issue, I believe Steve, he has never not been straight (always a straight shooter) and the best part is that he truly cares about BB and the "athlete's".
Let's see what happens next year....when AMI does not run the Mr O, be quite certain that MD will be at the Olym[ia this year, no matter what Peter M writes.
Doug Kalman
My name is Chris Hobrecker...and I am Group Creative Director of the enthusiast division at AMI/Weider...many people I have spoken to on here know who I am, and I have never tried to hide it. So it's useless to try and call me out.
If you choose to believe Steve B over Peter M, that is your choice-if you like MD better-that is also your choice-there are 2 distinctly different philosophies involved in the 2 magazines...and both don't appeal to everyone.
The problem with your whole business idea is that adding pages to the magazines also increases the production costs and thus lowers the bottom line, which is a pretty important part of running a business. The ultimate goal is to keep the fans and the advertisers happy while still making $$ in the end.
C
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Well I gotta side with my buddy Kevin on this one. He had just proved everyone wrong who said it was altered. Good job Kevin. You da man.
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Well I gotta side with my buddy Kevin on this one. He had just proved everyone wrong who said it was altered. Good job Kevin. You da man.
I'm blushing now ;D
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The magazine timeline:
1] 15 year old boy buys Flex wanting to learn how to train and look like a bodybuilder
2] A year later, after eating tons of brocoli and spending a fortune on snake oil like scamma o, he realises he might also need something called steroids.
3] Buys MD for a couple of issues. Gets a glimpse of what bodybuilding is really like. Gets bored.
4] Discovers the internet - finds out the truth about bodybuilding. Its 90% steroids. The articles in Flex are ghost written. Badly.
5] Becomes a Getbig member and gets the latest gossip the day it happens. Also gets the best pics without having to pay for them. Becomes incredibly pissed off that he ever wasted money on shit like Flex and MD.
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Palumbo went away for selling gh? ???
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Chris H,
I do not know who you are - so you being stand-offish is petty.
In the end, all the magazines should be striving to get/obtain new interest in working out/exercise and perhaps competative BB.
The working out part might be the sport part of it, standing on a stage, posing is not athletic nor a sport. In fact, less than 5% of all people who ever work out ever enter a contest.
Flex and MD are different as is Fitness Rx for Her and Shape, they all have their +/-'s, however, from a sales perspective none hold a candle to Men's Health - including MnF (Muscle n Fiction as it is known in academic circles). Sadly, since Joe has gotten older and a tad ill and is no longer involved in the day-to-day operations of the magazines, they have fallen from their prestige. The loss of writers and the attempt to deny that people do not normally weigh 275 pounds at a height of 5'10 or 6'2 without being either obese or on drugs is also wrong. Yes, drugs are illegal, but these people do them. The "how to" articles of training, dieting, supplementing, and other items around these are what are instructive to the new and not so new reader.
The internet has taken many buyers away from the magazines as they go to T-Nation, GetBig, and other great sites out there. MD just announced a whole new web presence (sp) to start shortly, should be interesting as MnF and Flex's site are sales oriented and not info and content oriented.
have a great weekend - does AMI release the sales figures and PnL sheets for each magazine in their SEC filings?
Doug "dknole" Kalman
"Go Noles"
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Palumbo went away for selling gh? ???
fake GH
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The magazine timeline:
1] 15 year old boy buys Flex wanting to learn how to train and look like a bodybuilder
2] A year later, after eating tons of brocoli and spending a fortune on snake oil like scamma o, he realises he might also need something called steroids.
3] Buys MD for a couple of issues. Gets a glimpse of what bodybuilding is really like. Gets bored.
4] Discovers the internet - finds out the truth about bodybuilding. Its 90% steroids. The articles in Flex are ghost written. Badly.
5] Becomes a Getbig member and gets the latest gossip the day it happens. Also gets the best pics without having to pay for them. Becomes incredibly pissed off that he ever wasted money on shit like Flex and MD.
the story of my life
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but i dont think md is shit at least all the training science articles backed up and refernced which is handy when your studying to be a personal trainer
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Doug,
You're making a mistake again. They are selling profitable magazines.
AMI is selling a profitable magazine.
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AMI is selling a profitable magazine.
?
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"So while I naturally enjoy a good meal, I don’t remember, as Romano alleges, “eyeing the plates like I just got rescued from a deserted island.” I do remember wondering if Mr. Blechman might need a booster seat to reach the table." Priceless.
This only further serves to prove that Testicular Maldevelopment engages in the same kind of dejecta that they so often accuse Flex of propogating, albeit for different reasons. I can't help but be reminded of that roundtable discussion with Dave Palumbo right before he went away for selling Growth. Anyone remember how that muff-bag John Romano supposedly brought "stacks" of negative feedback that fans were giving "Jumbo" on these BBS's to the restaurant? And how Romano, in a desperate attempt to get us to stop slagging MD, suggested that the negativity was actually envy in disguise? Lest we forget how remarkably coincidental it was that two new Romano-penned articles, "The Romano Factor" and "Page 69", seemed to pop up right after the "Rage Page" disappeared from the mag.
Romano, get killed, would you please?
FLEX has been "sinking" for the last three years, let some folks here tell it. McGough's article must be in the OCT 06 issue of FLEX. I have the SEP 06 one but haven't seen it in there, yet.
The portion about MD switching directions like Dolly Parton's breasts in a wind tunnels.....NOW, THAT'S PRICELESS!!!!
Mr. McGough has kindly reminded folks that Blechman once swore that no steroid-using bodybuilder would ever be in MD again. Now, all we hear is "Steroids this, Steroids that, my first cycle, GH: Tastes like chicken, etc.".
This was supposed to be the guy to lead the "revolution" (sound familiar?) to right the bodybuilding ship (only a decade ago, it was all about natural bodybuilding, as IFBB pros were supposedly croaking left and right, mimicking the allegedly insane drug use of one Mr. Olympia, Dorian Yates).
As for the claims by MD, I don't know about the other writers. But, if it comes from Romano's pen, I deem it false, until proven true. The memory still sticks in my mind of his less-than-accurate assessment of the North American Championship a decade ago. Despite not even being there, Romano not only claimed that the heavyweight (and overall) champion, John Simmons, should not have won. But, that Simmons actually told the 4th placed finisher, Gerard Dente (who just happened to work for Twinlab) that he should have won.
Romano got slammed in MuscleMag, as several attendees of that 1996 NAC said that Simmons was the winner hands-down. Simmons himself, a fairly quiet man by reputation, wrote MuscleMag to set the record straight. Though he was far more merciful on Romano than the fans were, he made it clear that AT NO TIME did he apologize to Dente (or anyone else). Of course, being as that show was the IFBB[/b] North American Championships, Romano claimed that the fix was in for Dente, because he worked for Twinlab (and Muscular Development......or should I say Muscular Development-Fitness-Health).
So, if Romano is making any claims regarding FLEX's demise, forget the grain; take the WHOLE SHAKER of salt. Romano has a long history of sticking his foot in his mouth. And from what I've seen, the tradition is alive and well.
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Chris H,
I do not know who you are - so you being stand-offish is petty.
In the end, all the magazines should be striving to get/obtain new interest in working out/exercise and perhaps competative BB.
The working out part might be the sport part of it, standing on a stage, posing is not athletic nor a sport. In fact, less than 5% of all people who ever work out ever enter a contest.
Flex and MD are different as is Fitness Rx for Her and Shape, they all have their +/-'s, however, from a sales perspective none hold a candle to Men's Health - including MnF (Muscle n Fiction as it is known in academic circles). Sadly, since Joe has gotten older and a tad ill and is no longer involved in the day-to-day operations of the magazines, they have fallen from their prestige. The loss of writers and the attempt to deny that people do not normally weigh 275 pounds at a height of 5'10 or 6'2 without being either obese or on drugs is also wrong. Yes, drugs are illegal, but these people do them. The "how to" articles of training, dieting, supplementing, and other items around these are what are instructive to the new and not so new reader.
The internet has taken many buyers away from the magazines as they go to T-Nation, GetBig, and other great sites out there. MD just announced a whole new web presence (sp) to start shortly, should be interesting as MnF and Flex's site are sales oriented and not info and content oriented.
have a great weekend - does AMI release the sales figures and PnL sheets for each magazine in their SEC filings?
Doug "dknole" Kalman
"Go Noles"
Doug,
I don't know who you are either...though you seem to think I should. How exactly am I being stand offish? I answer pretty much everything I happen to know the answer to.
and yes, some parts of our sites are sales oriented and meant as a tie in with the mags, but there is also web-only content and bringing coverage of contests the night that they happen is also on our site, which is done just for fans of BB (as far as I know, Ironman is the only other magazine that does this).
Our ultimate goal IS to get more people interested in working out/exercise, but trying to keep it in a positive light.
C
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Its a little sad how many of you guys are ready to make fun of flex but most of you talk about how you bought a recent issue.
Flex is a piece of shit and no mistake. Written by idiots, for the common idiot. Do yourselves a favour and trash them every time they are mentioned and maybe they'll get the picture - intelligent information, not articles on how Kevin Levrone "flexes his biceps and da chix come runnin" are what real fans want.
I can also confirm that as far as toilet paper goes, its not crash hot either. Gloss just doesn't work that well.. I'd trade any issue of flex for that 1ply budget sandpaper that you buy when you get cheap.
I went through a period of experimentation on all grades of paper during university, during this time I purchased an issue of flex and couldn't find one thing that was worth it. Bodybuilders in lumberjacking clothing doesn't do it for me.
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so by portraying drugs as having no role whatsoever, flex is "more responsible"?
Who said that? Besides, if people know that IFBB pros use anabolics, why must FLEX or MD remind of that every single issue?
If the rationale is to allegedly save some newbie from thinking that he can build a pro-style physique sans anabolics, such worry is unwarranted. I've been at newsstands, to buy magazines. And, I've heard more than my fair share of "Steroids" comments by youngsters nearby.
In one instance, two teens were snickering about how unattractive and masculine a lady on the cover of MuscleMag International was. Now, this wasn't a Kim Chivesky/Iris Kyle type. It was none other than a woman, considered as a first-class beauty in bodybuilding circles: Monica Brant-Peckham.
MD's irresponsible coverage would imply that before a youngster even guzzled his first protein shake or lifts those cement weights he got from a garage sale or inherited from his dad/big brother, he better have the syringes in ready supply.
Both mags can use some improvement, but I'd give FLEX the nod, first.
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Hah, well Mcway, lets face it.. most of these pro's starting using gear pretty early. MUCH earlier than they will admit. The fable of reaching your natural potential first is a rarely achieved thing in reality. If you do want to be a pro chances are you'll get started pretty early.
Flex I dislike because they pander to the halfwit. Idiots are more likely to buy magazines when all information is for free online though.
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Its a little sad how many of you guys are ready to make fun of flex but most of you talk about how you bought a recent issue.
Flex is a piece of shit and no mistake. Written by idiots, for the common idiot. Do yourselves a favour and trash them every time they are mentioned and maybe they'll get the picture - intelligent information, not articles on how Kevin Levrone "flexes his biceps and da chix come runnin" are what real fans want.
I can also confirm that as far as toilet paper goes, its not crash hot either. Gloss just doesn't work that well.. I'd trade any issue of flex for that 1ply budget sandpaper that you buy when you get cheap.
I went through a period of experimentation on all grades of paper during university, during this time I purchased an issue of flex and couldn't find one thing that was worth it. Bodybuilders in lumberjacking clothing doesn't do it for me.
As far as the "Flex the biceps; get the girl" stuff goes, that's as old as those "Bugs Bunny" dumbbels with the round globes on the end or the "Charles Atlas" ads from WAAAAAAAAYYYYY back when.
It's still alive today. Markus Ruhl take Lipo-6 and has some thong-clad blonde shrink-wrapped to his side. And, let's not forget our friends at MuscleTech. Apparently, their supplements have a profound effect on black bodybuilders as it literally signals white girls like the Pied Piper's flute spell on rodents.
I even remember Gary Strydom's little blurb on WBF BodyStars, "Big weights, big muscles....PLENTY GIRLS (showing footage of Strydom's 1991 WBF Championship win, where he sports a top hat and cane, while being escorted by two ladies in evening gowns).
As for the lumberjack clothing, it's not that bad. Would you prefer the hot pink spandex ala King Kamali (Is Hot Skinz still around?) or those old-school Zubaz baggies?
;D
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They have some guys who produces quality at MD.
Romano isn't one of them.
He's a little too creative in his articles, exaggretions are a norm.
Manninen, Wheeler(!), Thomas Fahey.
But Romano? No.
YIP
Zack
I wouldn't call Wheeler a quality writer - I've never been impressed by his articles. I think just like Romano he gets a little too creative.
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IFBB pros were supposedly croaking left and right, mimicking the allegedly insane drug use of one Mr. Olympia, Dorian Yates).
Dorian wasnt natural? ??? ??? ???
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Dorian wasnt natural? ??? ??? ???
Not sure about Dorian, but I KNOW Tom Prince was natural! I mean, even his good buddy Bob Chick agreed that he was 235 lbs at 18 years old and natural back in high school!
::)
;D
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The magazine timeline:
1] 15 year old boy buys Flex wanting to learn how to train and look like a bodybuilder
2] A year later, after eating tons of brocoli and spending a fortune on snake oil like scamma o, he realises he might also need something called steroids.
3] Buys MD for a couple of issues. Gets a glimpse of what bodybuilding is really like. Gets bored.
4] Discovers the internet - finds out the truth about bodybuilding. Its 90% steroids. The articles in Flex are ghost written. Badly.
5] Becomes a Getbig member and gets the latest gossip the day it happens. Also gets the best pics without having to pay for them. Becomes incredibly pissed off that he ever wasted money on shit like Flex and MD.
the story of my life
Same here.....
Whooooooooshhhhhhhhhhh
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The magazine timeline:
1] 15 year old boy buys Flex wanting to learn how to train and look like a bodybuilder
2] A year later, after eating tons of brocoli and spending a fortune on snake oil like scamma o, he realises he might also need something called steroids.
3] Buys MD for a couple of issues. Gets a glimpse of what bodybuilding is really like. Gets bored.
4] Discovers the internet - finds out the truth about bodybuilding. Its 90% steroids. The articles in Flex are ghost written. Badly.
5] Becomes a Getbig member and gets the latest gossip the day it happens. Also gets the best pics without having to pay for them. Becomes incredibly pissed off that he ever wasted money on shit like Flex and MD.
Ummm....why would this 15-year old boy believe that he'd look like an IFBB pro (or even a top NPC amateur) after ONE YEAR of training?
Perhaps, if this bodybuilder read more articles and fewer gossip columns or less gawking at the latest silicon-stuffed porn st....(ahem)...."fitness model", he'd know that it takes years of dieting and training, STEROIDS or NO STEROIDS, to build a championship physique. Supplements help but are not cure-alls. Like anything else, you have your good, not-so-good, and pitiful supplements.
Those pros have been training for 10, 15, and 20 years (or more). For some strange reason, even though they may take anabolics, they STILL have to eat lots of calories of food in certain proportions. They STILL have to train consistently, hard, and smart. They STILL have to recover from that training (to that end, the anabolics help significantly).
Training like Mr. Olympia will get you injured at worst, burned out at least. I did something similar, until a beginner's workout, in an article by Mike Mentzer in Muscle & Fitness helped to get me on the right track.
Reading the tips in FLEX, you'll find that you'll need a LOT more food than just broccoli to start you on your goals.
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I gotta give huge props to DOug and Chris for using their real names. So many people talk shit behind a computer. These two guys aren't afraid to say who they are. That shows balls, and immediately gives them crediability in what they say. Way more than someone who comes on here saying all kinds of shit with nothing to back it up. Good job guys.
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I gotta give huge props to DOug and Chris for using their real names. So many people talk shit behind a computer. These two guys aren't afraid to say who they are. That shows balls, and immediately gives them crediability in what they say. Way more than someone who comes on here saying all kinds of shit with nothing to back it up. Good job guys.
Thanks man...
I'll always admit to who I am on the boards...and I try to stay out of the personal issues about this whole situation.
Hopefully somehow, something good comes out of this whole thing.
C
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I've been at newsstands, to buy magazines. And, I've heard more than my fair share of "Steroids" comments by youngsters nearby.
In one instance, two teens were snickering about how unattractive and masculine a lady on the cover of MuscleMag International was. Now, this wasn't a Kim Chivesky/Iris Kyle type. It was none other than a woman, considered as a first-class beauty in bodybuilding circles: Monica Brant-Peckham.
THAT blows my mind....what the hell? Iris Kyle, yeah, I'd run screaming too. But little MBP? Come onnnnn.
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Not sure about Dorian, but I KNOW Tom Prince was natural! I mean, even his good buddy Bob Chick agreed that he was 235 lbs at 18 years old and natural back in high school!
::)
;D
I was a fcuking tool for believing Cicherillo when he came on here and stated that TP was 230+ lbs.
I'm sure Cicherillo believed it himself, he seems like a trusty kind of guy - I mean, Kamali has been telling Cicherillo for years that Kamali is the better of the two.
Cicherillo needs to wake up and smell the coffee - he's a better bodybuilder than Kamali, and TP was lying about his weight.
YIP
Zack
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Ummm....why would this 15-year old boy believe that he'd look like an IFBB pro (or even a top NPC amateur) after ONE YEAR of training?
Perhaps, if this bodybuilder read more articles and fewer gossip columns or less gawking at the latest silicon-stuffed porn st....(ahem)...."fitness model", he'd know that it takes years of dieting and training, STEROIDS or NO STEROIDS, to build a championship physique. Supplements help but are not cure-alls. Like anything else, you have your good, not-so-good, and pitiful supplements.
Those pros have been training for 10, 15, and 20 years (or more). For some strange reason, even though they may take anabolics, they STILL have to eat lots of calories of food in certain proportions. They STILL have to train consistently, hard, and smart. They STILL have to recover from that training (to that end, the anabolics help significantly).
Training like Mr. Olympia will get you injured at worst, burned out at least. I did something similar, until a beginner's workout, in an article by Mike Mentzer in Muscle & Fitness helped to get me on the right track.
Reading the tips in FLEX, you'll find that you'll need a LOT more food than just broccoli to start you on your goals.
i think its the fact that genetics seem to be underplayed in flex e.g if you train consistintly eat well everyone has the same genetic potential
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KIng does not use Synthol...
Chic,
Does he use esciline or any other site injection product?
Nope...
How do you know this?
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Thanks man...
I'll always admit to who I am on the boards...and I try to stay out of the personal issues about this whole situation.
Hopefully somehow, something good comes out of this whole thing.
C
Thank you "only me". I truly would love to see more people exercising and from what I see in the gym, more people exercising with better form AND personal trainers to actually pay attention to their clients rather than their cell phones or use that wondering eye around the gym.
I enjoy writing for MD and except for MMI, enjoyed all of the magazines and most of the websites that I have written for. I know the industry side for a long time and the true science side/academic side even better, the reality is that the goal for all of the magazines should be increased point of purchase sales and of course helping to influence the next generation of GetBiggers.
Keith - be well!
Doug Kalman (dknole)
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I just loved the fact that romano starts raving and shit...and he wasn;t even there! lol
i dunno bout this one but you might wanna post that 80's gym pic of Blechman with a moustache and Romano with a trucker/farmer hat cuz SHIT SON! i think McGough got one up on Romano for that one!
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I just loved the fact that romano starts raving and shit...and he wasn;t even there! lol
i dunno bout this one but you might wanna post that 80's gym pic of Blechman with a moustache and Romano with a trucker/farmer hat cuz SHIT SON! i think McGough got one up on Romano for that one!
How does McGough know Romano wasn't in the restaurant? Was McGough there? Maybe Romano was seated at another table? Things aren't always what they seem.
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How does McGough know Romano wasn't in the restaurant? Was McGough there? Maybe Romano was seated at another table? Things aren't always what they seem.
the guy who came in with David pecker said blechman came with his wife only...read the whole article, you'll see.
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THAT blows my mind....what the hell? Iris Kyle, yeah, I'd run screaming too. But little MBP? Come onnnnn.
It's true. I remember the issue of MuscleMag that I bought. It was #200, Brant-Peckham was on the cover with Milos Sarcev. One kid in particular was mimicking Peckham with a deep voice, talking to his friend, "Want to go out, baby?.
This ain't the first time I've seen someone accuse a MuscleMag cover girl of looking masculine. I was watching an episode of Entertainment Weekly or Entertainment Tonight (I forget which one). It was covering a swimsuit issue with some "fitness models". The mother of a friend of mine saw one and claimed that "she's looks like a man; that's nasty". To my utter surprise, the woman about whom these comments were being made was a MuscleMag regular......Stacey Lynn Boetto.
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^^^ cuz fat girls (most women) HATE to see that a woman can look tight and in shape.
They'd rather put the in shape chick down and continue to stuff their fat faces with Cheetos.
That's why I won't touch a chick unless her bodyfat is in the teens. Most cows are in the 20's somewhere.
No Fat Chicks. Period. And that even means those "skinny fat" hoes :p
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^^^ cuz fat girls (most women) HATE to see that a woman can look tight and in shape.
They'd rather put the in shape chick down and continue to stuff their fat faces with Cheetos.
That's why I won't touch a chick unless her bodyfat is in the teens. Most cows are in the 20's somewhere.
No Fat Chicks. Period. And that even means those "skinny fat" hoes :p
Being fat has nothing to do with it. This lady is in her 60s but is one of the most active people I know (in fact, she frequents the gym where her daughter teaches an aerobics class and can outlast women half her age).
The point is simply this: Many actual and so-called fitness girls are perceived as manly-looking. Again, these ain't "female bodybuilders" of the Kyle/Chivesky/Francis look. These are fitness/figure girls: Brant-Peckham, Boetto, etc.
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the guy who came in with David pecker said blechman came with his wife only...read the whole article, you'll see.
I read that too. I see they came alone. I'm suggesting MAYBE Romano was already at the restaurant seated with other people - you know just in case a certain tabloid publisher known for his short temper decided to melt down at lunch?
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I read that too. I see they came alone. I'm suggesting MAYBE Romano was already at the restaurant seated with other people - you know just in case a certain tabloid publisher known for his short temper decided to melt down at lunch?
That's a good point John. So, were you there?
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That's a good point John. So, were you there?
It's so funny how some of you think I'm him. I've said many times that I know him, I work for him, but I'm not him. I imagine exposing someone's identity would really be an accomplishment. And if believing it makes you happy, go for it. I have no problem saying who I am - to a point. I do enjoy my privacy.
Was he at the Bleckman/Pecker lunch? It is a good point, you are right. And, I am sure if a law suit comes out of this you will find out.
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Was he at the Bleckman/Pecker lunch? It is a good point, you are right. And, I am sure if a law suit comes out of this you will find out.
If he was there I'm sure that he would have included that in his article to help substantiate it?. As it is his article is based on hearsay. So far the only person who has given a first person account is Kevin Hyson. Steve Blechman chose to use John to write his version of the events. Did he do that so he could say "Well John wrote it, I have nothing to do with it. it's in his contract that nothing he writes is censored?" Before you say that is ridiculous I'll point out that he has said that before.
At the end of the day, all of this could and should have been avoided. You say this all stems from a time years ago when Peter wrote something that John found offensive. Was this when MD did their infamous turn against pro bodybuilding and insulted just about everyone involved in the sport including FLEX and all the athletes and declaring nobody using drugs would be featured in their magazine?
Then they did a 180. If I'd gone from 100% anti-drugs to more pro-drug than Ciba-Geigy I'd have felt like the dumbest ass in the world and trotted off to the dentist to have my foot removed from my mouth.
But since then, John has repeatedly attacked Peter McGough, FLEX, David Pecker, Kevin Hyson and is not averse to including their families in his little jibes. And all because he was upset when someone defended the sport they're passionate about? If so, I'm surprised you previously mentioned thin skin.
John's atttacks have never been repsonded to until now. How many times can you prod someone before they react?
John's a talented writer, but I personally think there is absolutley no place for personal squabbles in the pages of the magazines. They should be filled with well written articles, great photography and ideas on how we can make this sport grow so the athletes and us make lot's more spondoolies - money for those not familiar with the slang term ;D
We're all getting a little too old for throwing punches at one another. Arranging the DVD rights and webcast also takes the fun out of it. ;D
While too much has happened for a "Let's Hug, and be friends" moment. Let's focus on what we're doing, forget the insults and get on with our jobs?
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If he was there I'm sure that he would have included that in his article to help substantiate it?. As it is his article is based on hearsay. So far the only person who has given a first person account is Kevin Hyson. Steve Blechman chose to use John to write his version of the events. Did he do that so he could say "Well John wrote it, I have nothing to do with it. it's in his contract that nothing he writes is censored?" Before you say that is ridiculous I'll point out that he has said that before.
At the end of the day, all of this could and should have been avoided. You say this all stems from a time years ago when Peter wrote something that John found offensive. Was this when MD did their infamous turn against pro bodybuilding and insulted just about everyone involved in the sport including FLEX and all the athletes and declaring nobody using drugs would be featured in their magazine?
Then they did a 360. If I'd gone from 100% anti-drugs to more pro-drug than Ciba-Geigy I'd have felt like the dumbest ass in the world and trotted off to the dentist to have my foot removed from my mouth.
But since then, John has repeatedly attacked Peter McGough, FLEX, David Pecker, Kevin Hyson and is not averse to including their families in his little jibes. And all because he was upset when someone defended the sport they're passionate about? If so, I'm surprised you previously mentioned thin skin.
John's atttacks have never been repsonded to until now. How many times can you prod someone before they react?
John's a talented writer, but I personally think there is absolutley no place for personal squabbles in the pages of the magazines. They should be filled with well written articles, great photography and ideas on how we can make this sport grow so the athletes and us make lot's more spondoolies - money for those not familiar with the slang term ;D
We're all getting a little too old for throwing punches at one another. Arranging the DVD rights and webcast also takes the fun out of it. ;D
While too much has happened for a "Let's Hug, and be friends" moment. Let's focus on what we're doing, forget the insults and get on with our jobs?
You make it sound like Romano made a career out of bashing Fat Mac. What it amounts to is about a half dozen shots in over a decade. They must have been good ones, because that's all you seem to remember. What it seems like is that no one could believe that anyone would have the audacity to shoot back at the almighty Flex and McGough. Tough shit - the deserved it. John has covered some interesting stuff over the years. Whatever stance he and MD took over the years was intended as the right thing to do, or merely to just tell the truth. On the rare occasion they missed the boat. No one is perfect. I'm sure you meant 180 and not 360 above, but I get your point. But you know, trying to compete with Flex in Weider's world is not easy. I'd like to see the choices many of you would have made in defining your identity and carving out market share in a crowded environment if the shoe were on the other foot.
And you Weider guys love to exaggerate. "John has repeatedly attacked Peter McGough, FLEX, David Pecker, Kevin Hyson and is not averse to including their families in his little jibes." John has never "attacked" Hyson and has never bashed anyone's family. John made one reference to who he thought was Peter McGough's daughter - who it turned out was not even his daughter but Kevin Horton's wife - and therefore NOT family. And, all he said was that she was hot. If that bothers you guys so much I'm sure he can write a retraction and take it back. Which would be stupid because Kevin Horton's wife is hot.
There has never been any move on the part of Flex to make peace and work together. They started the whole thing by maintaining nothing but a hostile environment. And that goes straight to McGough. Joe Weider called Romano last week. There is nothing but good will between them. This whole thing reminds me of the Bully who finally gets his ass beat. He's taking his ball and going home - boo hoo. Just remember, this is the last year AMI is doing the Olympia. You never know who will be doing it next year. Maybe it will be Flex asking MD for press passes next year.
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You make it sound like Romano made a career out of bashing Fat Mac. What it amounts to is about a half dozen shots in over a decade. They must have been good ones, because that's all you seem to remember. What it seems like is that no one could believe that anyone would have the audacity to shoot back at the almighty Flex and McGough. Tough shit - the deserved it. John has covered some interesting stuff over the years. Whatever stance he and MD took over the years was intended as the right thing to do, or merely to just tell the truth. On the rare occasion they missed the boat. No one is perfect. I'm sure you meant 180 and not 360 above, but I get your point. But you know, trying to compete with Flex in Weider's world is not easy. I'd like to see the choices many of you would have made in defining your identity and carving out market share in a crowded environment if the shoe were on the other foot.
And you Weider guys love to exaggerate. "John has repeatedly attacked Peter McGough, FLEX, David Pecker, Kevin Hyson and is not averse to including their families in his little jibes." John has never "attacked" Hyson and has never bashed anyone's family. John made one reference to who he thought was Peter McGough's daughter - who it turned out was not even his daughter but Kevin Horton's wife - and therefore NOT family. And, all he said was that she was hot. If that bothers you guys so much I'm sure he can write a retraction and take it back. Which would be stupid because Kevin Horton's wife is hot.
There has never been any move on the part of Flex to make peace and work together. They started the whole thing by maintaining nothing but a hostile environment. And that goes straight to McGough. Joe Weider called Romano last week. There is nothing but good will between them. This whole thing reminds me of the Bully who finally gets his ass beat. He's taking his ball and going home - boo hoo. Just remember, this is the last year AMI is doing the Olympia. You never know who will be doing it next year. Maybe it will be Flex asking MD for press passes next year.
Obviously you want to continue insulting people so I'll leave you to it. I do agree that my wife is hot though that's why I married her. No need for a retraction. He can write whatever he likes about me but if he wants to include my wife or any other members of my family, as long as it's respectful, I have no problem with it.
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Obviously you want to continue insulting people so I'll leave you to it. I do agree that my wife is hot though that's why I married her. No need for a retraction. He can write whatever he likes about me but if he wants to include my wife or any other members of my family, as long as it's respectful, I have no problem with it.
How do you get that out of what I said? "hot" in this day and age is a compliment. Nothing disrespectful either. You guys have such thin skin. Maybe McGough should have considered that before he picked the fight.
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How do you get that out of what I said? "hot" in this day and age is a compliment. Nothing disrespectful either. You guys have such thin skin. Maybe McGough should have considered that before he picked the fight.
Read the first line of your previous post and the comment about "Fat Mac". I consider that insulting, obviously you don't otherwise you wouldn't have written it? Why John wanted to bring my wife into it - complimentary or not - is a mystery to me but he can expalin it to me at the Olympia.
i should add that I haven't seen the article so the first I knew of her being mentioned in it was when you posted about it here.
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i would like to see a FLEX vs. MD debate of some type.
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i would like to see a FLEX vs. MD debate of some type.
Start one then
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Read the first line of your previous post and the comment about "Fat Mac". I consider that insulting, obviously you don't otherwise you wouldn't have written it?
Why John wanted to bring my wife into it - complimentary or not - is a mystery to me but he can expalin it to me at the Olympia.
i should add that I haven't seen the article so the first I knew of her being mentioned in it was when you posted about it here.
No, not on this board. But, fine, I'll give you that. I'll save you the trouble of reading the article. Here is the entire verse of what amounts to "including their families:" referring to the fact that it is a shame there is this feud, John wrote "it's too bad, I thought McGough's daughter was hot." If the woman sitting next to him was his daughter and not your wife, I hope you could see the humor in that, but you probably can't. Try to remove yourself from the situation and maybe you might. But that is the sum total of anything having to do with anyone's family and it turns out she wasn't even a member of his family! But, you guys make it sound like it is an every day occurrence. The same with the rest. Over the last 10 years how many times did John jab at McGough? Maybe half a dozzen and it was never unprovoked. You guys make it sound like it was every month. It wasn't. But you guys like to exaggerate and continue to instigate more trouble. Face it, you guys don't want to get over this.
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No, not on this board. But, fine, I'll give you that. I'll save you the trouble of reading the article. Here is the entire verse of what amounts to "including their families:" referring to the fact that it is a shame there is this feud, John wrote "it's too bad, I thought McGough's daughter was hot." If the woman sitting next to him was his daughter and not your wife, I hope you could see the humor in that, but you probably can't. Try to remove yourself from the situation and maybe you might. But that is the sum total of anything having to do with anyone's family and it turns out she wasn't even a member of his family! But, you guys make it sound like it is an every day occurrence. The same with the rest. Over the last 10 years how many times did John jab at McGough? Maybe half a dozzen and it was never unprovoked. You guys make it sound like it was every month. It wasn't. But you guys like to exaggerate and continue to instigate more trouble. Face it, you guys don't want to get over this.
Thanks for printing the text, but why the need to take jabs at my possible lack of humor? Isn't that more likely to instigate trouble?
If you read my posts I think you'll find my position is quite clear. I don't believe that any personal attacks are professional.
I may disagree with MD's editorial policy but I've chatted briefly with Steve Blechman and his wife at shows. He asked me once why there couldn't be friendly rivalry between us all and I told him that the personal attacks were the cause.
I said before, there may never be a group hug leading to some people getting a room but let's just get on with our jobs and stop the petty with the petty insults?
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Thanks for printing the text, but why the need to take jabs at my possible lack of humor? Isn't that more likely to instigate trouble?
If you read my posts I think you'll find my position is quite clear. I don't believe that any personal attacks are professional.
I may disagree with MD's editorial policy but I've chatted briefly with Steve Blechman and his wife at shows. He asked me once why there couldn't be friendly rivalry between us all and I told him that the personal attacks were the cause.
I said before, there may never be a group hug leading to some people getting a room but let's just get on with our jobs and stop the petty with the petty insults?
My job is to gather information and feed it to John. I'm going back and forth with you as much on John's behalf as you are on Peter's. It's not by his authority I'm saying anything. But, what he has said is that he's fine with burrying the hatchet and moving on. It has nothing to do with having to buy a ticket to the Olympia. He bought his last year too.
You know, I remember a call a long while back during a spat Romano was having with Lonnie Teeper. John Balik had an issue with something Romano had written. He called Romano and told him how he felt about it, asked him to stop, and that was it. Never a problem again. Tons of mutual respect. In fact, Romano and Teeper get along just fine now. That is all McGough had to to way back when he first realized he picked a fight with t he wrong guy. I'm sure none of this would be happening right now.
I know John, would be more than happy with everyone just getting along and moving forward and growing the industry. Remember, Flex is for sale, and this is the last year of AMI's involvement with the Olympia. You never know who you might have to gt along with next year. It would be smart if everyone started now.
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INTENSE!!!!!!!!! Next months cover, the month after that and the month after that
flex is getting monotonous with their Articles, almost everything is repetitive. It's like, the same freaking article by different Pros
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My job is to gather information and feed it to John. I'm going back and forth with you as much on John's behalf as you are on Peter's. It's not by his authority I'm saying anything. But, what he has said is that he's fine with burrying the hatchet and moving on. It has nothing to do with having to buy a ticket to the Olympia. He bought his last year too.
You know, I remember a call a long while back during a spat Romano was having with Lonnie Teeper. John Balik had an issue with something Romano had written. He called Romano and told him how he felt about it, asked him to stop, and that was it. Never a problem again. Tons of mutual respect. In fact, Romano and Teeper get along just fine now. That is all McGough had to to way back when he first realized he picked a fight with t he wrong guy. I'm sure none of this would be happening right now.
I know John, would be more than happy with everyone just getting along and moving forward and growing the industry. Remember, Flex is for sale, and this is the last year of AMI's involvement with the Olympia. You never know who you might have to gt along with next year. It would be smart if everyone started now.
You may be back and forth with Jonh but I've not had contact with Peter over this at all. What I write is my own opinions and should not be seen as representing anyone else.
Just a thought but you mention that John Balik called John Romano about a problem and it was over. You say that this all started with a comment Peter made, so why didn't John call him?
Considering a recent incident I'd suggest keeping comments about "picking fights" to private messages ;D
With a change of ownership looming, the future looks interesting, let's hope for a peaceful one
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You may be back and forth with Jonh but I've not had contact with Peter over this at all. What I write is my own opinions and should not be seen as representing anyone else.
Same here. Just a thought but you mention that John Balik called John Romano about a problem and it was over. You say that this all started with a comment Peter made, so why didn't John call him?
I don't know, McGough was the guy who was bothered. All Romano did was fight back. Considering a recent incident I'd suggest keeping comments about "pickinh fights" to private messages ;D
???? McGough picked the fight. Common knowledge. You can go back and read it all for yourself. I have. With a change of ownership looming, the future looks interesting, let's hope for a peaceful one
Totally agree!
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McGough picked the fight. Common knowledge. You can go back and read it all for yourself. I have.
If that's the case why didn't John call him?
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I have a complete collection of MD, but I have not filed it for several years.
I would be interested, though, in going back and reading the relevant sections to see how all this originated.
With what issue and page should I begin?
Thanks.
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People, take this stuff to PM. You guys are representatives of your magazines, right?
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People, take this stuff to PM. You guys are representatives of your magazines, right?
I represent myself.
I agree it must be getting boring though so I'm done.
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"The eagle does not chase the fly."
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People, take this stuff to PM. You guys are representatives of your magazines, right?
An argument stands or falls on merit, not on association. I have a column in Flex, but are only those not associated with magazines permitted to post?
Anyway, a lead to the beginning article would be helpful.
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"The eagle does not chase the fly."
I think some people within a certain magazine should learn how to be a 'little more humble'!!! ::)
I guess you're implying that the 'eagle', in this case, is FLEX mag, aren't you?
On what grounds are you necessarily considering FLEX as the eagle in this case?? I wouldn't say that, judging by the replies is this thread and the other one. Look how many members took sides with Flex mag on this matter, or even how many members like Flex mag better than MD....... ::)
Just a hint..... ;)
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Peter,
Thanks for "Setting the record straight" for all of us. I'm sure we can all sleep better at night now that you've gotten some name calling off your chest. But after reading your diatribe I can't help but feel that things are not that rosy over there. For something as routine as an MD potshot to drive you to put this together makes me think that the most recent news, about Flex being down 15.2% 1st half of '06 vs. first half of '05 in total circulation (ABC info), can't help but make things difficult for you during this tumultuous time of working while the publication is up for sale.
Peace
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Peter,
Thanks for "Setting the record straight" for all of us. I'm sure we can all sleep better at night now that you've gotten some name calling off your chest. But after reading your diatribe I can't help but feel that things are not that rosy over there. For something as routine as an MD potshot to drive you to put this together makes me think that the most recent news, about Flex being down 15.2% 1st half of '06 vs. first half of '05 in total circulation (ABC info), can't help but make things difficult for you during this tumultuous time of working while the publication is up for sale.
Peace
OUCH!!!!
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Horton, maybe you can answer this: who ghostwrites the articles in Flex? And does it piss you off that the integrity of your photos are compromised by the crap that accompanies them? [Ronnie sounding as though hes a bio chemist etc]
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Horton, maybe you can answer this: who ghostwrites the articles in Flex? And does it piss you off that the integrity of your photos are compromised by the crap that accompanies them? [Ronnie sounding as though hes a bio chemist etc]
I'd rather read a great biography on someone by a skilled writer than an autobiography written by someone with a great life story but no skills to tell it.
Even the greatest writers have copy editors.
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I'd rather read a great biography on someone by a skilled writer than an autobiography written by someone with a great life story but no skills to tell it.
Even the greatest writers have copy editors.
Kev, it's things like this which many readers really hate.
It's either journalism, or it isn't. Don't put Ronnie's name on it - put Coleman & Schmidt (or whoever it is).
It's hard to take the credibility of the mag seriously when they do this. What if the media just decided to rewrite Bush's speeches? What if journalists just decided to rewrite anything?
Would you consider your magazine to be accurate reporting, kev?
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both are a waste of money. but 30,000 sounds very low.
either way im sure King Kamali is rackin up $10000s each time his name appears in either issue
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Kev, it's things like this which many readers really hate.
It's either journalism, or it isn't. Don't put Ronnie's name on it - put Coleman & Schmidt (or whoever it is).
It's hard to take the credibility of the mag seriously when they do this. What if the media just decided to rewrite Bush's speeches? What if journalists just decided to rewrite anything?
Would you consider your magazine to be accurate reporting, kev?
This is a big problem with FLEX.
They're flat out lying when they ghost writes articles and columns.
My guess is that Ronnie Coleman doesn't even have an input on the answer. Is there a real question to begin with, or do the author just make it up? These are all questions that arises when the journalistic integrity of a magazine is lost to such a big degree as it currently is with FLEX.
There is a problem, it needs to be solved. I can understand the need, or the appeal, of using Pro BB's, and Mr O's, as experts. But then, make them answer for real, with a co-writer if they cannot write. Or at least have some disclaimer letting us know that the article is based on a phone conversation with Ronnie, and that Julian Schmidt wrote it.
FLEX should stop raping the journalistic code of ethics.
YIP
Zack
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Kev, it's things like this which many readers really hate.
It's either journalism, or it isn't. Don't put Ronnie's name on it - put Coleman & Schmidt (or whoever it is).
It's hard to take the credibility of the mag seriously when they do this. What if the media just decided to rewrite Bush's speeches? What if journalists just decided to rewrite anything?
Would you consider your magazine to be accurate reporting, kev?
MD does it too.
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Crusher, you mentioned that Joe Weider called Romano. How do you know it wasn't Weider returning Romano's call crying for press passes.
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Kev, it's things like this which many readers really hate.
It's either journalism, or it isn't. Don't put Ronnie's name on it - put Coleman & Schmidt (or whoever it is).
It's hard to take the credibility of the mag seriously when they do this. What if the media just decided to rewrite Bush's speeches? What if journalists just decided to rewrite anything?
Would you consider your magazine to be accurate reporting, kev?
I'm not defending FLEX here because all magazines do it, not just bodybuilding ones. So I'm defending all magazines.
It's not unknown in the broadsheet newspaper world for a columnist to provide 150 words and have the copywriters pad it out. Is that a lack of journalistic integrity?
Should we not read an auto-biography unless it is only written by the subject and not helped by someone more skilled? If we choose that, we are going to be very bored indeed.
Most of the training stuff I've done recently has been with Greg Merritt as the writer. We go tot the gym, I shoot, he watches, we leave, I'm done, then he's got to write about it and make it interesting. How the hell do you make a barbell curl interesting?
Now I enjoy reading Greg's articles and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people even on here do too? He's not only observed what happened he's also talked to the athlete and then created a story around that. If we relied on just the athlete to write it, it may not be as good. They are experts in their fields, Greg is in his.
Now to me the same goes for the athletes columns - jump on that innuendo if you want ;D
As long as the content is based on what the bodybuilder actually says and it's just presented in a better way than he could do himself, I have no problem with it. It would be as dull as dish water otherwise and you'd still all be complaining!
Would you prefer each column to become a question and answer list?
"So David, what do you for chest"
"Bench Press"
How many sets?
"Six"
"How many reps"
"8"
"What you eat in the morning"
"Breakfast."
Some people complain that some of the lifts some athletes claim to use may be a little like a fishermans story of the one that got away. Well, if Ronnie Coleman wants to tell me he does 1000lbs on a bench press, I'm not going to argue. He's already come close to dropping some seriously heavy weight on my head, so I'm not going to upset him.
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I'd rather read a great biography on someone by a skilled writer than an autobiography written by someone with a great life story but no skills to tell it.
Even the greatest writers have copy editors.
When you start leaving answers with as much moral relativism as these, you've as much conceded the argument. Geesh. Aren't you dizzy from all the spinning?
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Romano on Muscleradio.com (http://Muscleradio.com) saying Peter McGough is thin skinned. Clearly, they are makin a move that is not well thought out, and will prove it will have a serious effect on how it will be brought out on the Olympia. Not a smart move on their part.
What is really boils down to is that the MD staff have to pay my own tickets. No big deal, we had to pay for them last year too. That is the way they want to play it. Bear in mind, this is the last year they can play this game. Bottom line is that there is not going to be as much coverage on the Olympia. MD gives me pre-Olympia coverage than any other magazine. There is going to be less exposure for the Olympia.
The sponsors will be disappointed. The fans will be disappointed too. Weider is a monopoly. They are trying to lock out MD. It is their prerogative, but they are not looking far down the road. And if Flex wants to do something, they cannot do anything about it.
Next year, Flex may be asking us for press passes.
Hey, if they don't want us there, we shouldn't go. If it was up to me, I wouldnt go as a journalist. I would go as a fan. I would like to see if history is going to be made, to see if Ronnie will win or not.
Flex Wheeler is an MD guy and also the president of Hardbody Entertainment. He can you deny Flex a press pass? Is this not a conflict of interest? Things that he learned for Hardbody Entertainment cannot be used for MD. Robin Chang, Flex's best friend and godfather of his children, is the main guy of the Olympia.
Why should Flex be put in the middle of that. Flex is an icon of the sport, trying to embark on a second career. Flex can take pictures from the front row - and he can do anything he wants with the pictures.
If there is anything bad with AMI and MD, it is because of AMI, not MD. The Weider guys have very short memories. Way back in the 1990's when we first started, Peter McGough started taking pot shots at us first. Until I assumed a certain role in the magazine, there was nobody to answer all of the potshots. I don't take crap from anybody. Just just don't remember they started it. They can be in denial about it.
They are wallowing in the pot crying. They should listen and sit down with all the magazine publisher. We all meet somewhere in Wyoming, get together in private, and have a big summit. Every year. Make the sport better. In general, move the sport in a better direction.
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I'm not defending FLEX here because all magazines do it, not just bodybuilding ones. So I'm defending all magazines.
It's not unknown in the broadsheet newspaper world for a columnist to provide 150 words and have the copywriters pad it out. Is that a lack of journalistic integrity?
Should we not read an auto-biography unless it is only written by the subject and not helped by someone more skilled? If we choose that, we are going to be very bored indeed.
Most of the training stuff I've done recently has been with Greg Merritt as the writer. We go tot the gym, I shoot, he watches, we leave, I'm done, then he's got to write about it and make it interesting. How the hell do you make a barbell curl interesting?
Now I enjoy reading Greg's articles and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people even on here do too? He's not only observed what happened he's also talked to the athlete and then created a story around that. If we relied on just the athlete to write it, it may not be as good. They are experts in their fields, Greg is in his.
Now to me the same goes for the athletes columns - jump on that innuendo if you want ;D
As long as the content is based on what the bodybuilder actually says and it's just presented in a better way than he could do himself, I have no problem with it. It would be as dull as dish water otherwise and you'd still all be complaining!
Would you prefer each column to become a question and answer list?
"So David, what do you for chest"
"Bench Press"
How many sets?
"Six"
"How many reps"
"8"
"What you eat in the morning"
"Breakfast."
Just because a bodybuilder cannot write, doesn't give FLEX an excuse to fake his answers. FLEX has to find other ways.
There are no if's, and's or but's when it comes to the rules about who is signing an article. It has to be correct.
Some people complain that some of the lifts some athletes claim to use may be a little like a fishermans story of the one that got away. Well, if Ronnie Coleman wants to tell me he does 1000lbs on a bench press, I'm not going to argue. He's already come close to dropping some seriously heavy weight on my head, so I'm not going to upset him.
It's in the journalistic rules of conduct to question the claims of those being interviewed, making sure the facts are legit.
You cannot have an article without critically checking facts.
YIP
Zack
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When you start leaving answers with as much moral relativism as these, you've as much conceded the argument. Geesh. Aren't you dizzy from all the spinning?
I approach things as an absolutist rather than a relatavist so I don't accept your point.
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Zack,
What faked answers are you talking about?
The basis of the columns is from the bodybuilders themselves. They are interviewed at shows, photo shoots, over lunch, and over the phone. Why bother asking all those questions if they then fake the answers? Why not fake the questions?
The only thing the magazines are guilty of is trying to make it more interesting for the reader.
I agree that an article should be factual and we all strive to achieve that, Sometimes mistakes happen, sometimes we are told little white lies. None of us deliberatley set out to decieve anyone.
One problem we face is that some people refuse to believe things anyway. I've recently had to prove that a weight used in a Johnnie Jackson shoot was real and that plates were not added in photoshop. Next thing, they will have been fake weights. Then it will be they were held up by wires, then the martians etc etc.
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I approach things as an absolutist rather than a relatavist so I don't accept your point.
Absolutist, or relatavist[sic]? Perhaps you should re-read your post. Your comment most certainly belies your 'absolutist' stance and illustrates my 'point.' Perhaps this lack of/mis communication is at the root of the problem. No one knows what they are saying anymore. :-\
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The mags don't care what these board members think because it represents 1/10000 of their circulation. It's just like the ads that are inside. They aren't targeted to people on this board.
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I once saw a man on the TV news, who had been arrested for murder, exclaim,'I didn't kill nobody!'
He, of course, had just confessed that he had in fact killed someone, although I suspect that was not his intent. The next day's newspaper reported that the same man 'had claimed he killed no one'.
The newspaper changed the man's words, although probably not his intent.
So, do we take the man's televised confession, or do we interpret what he meant? My view is to report what HE said and allow each viewer to interpret.
If this same practice were used in bodybuilding reporting it could become very interesting very fast. Or, very uninteresting very fast.
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Zack,
What faked answers are you talking about?
The basis of the columns is from the bodybuilders themselves. They are interviewed at shows, photo shoots, over lunch, and over the phone. Why bother asking all those questions if they then fake the answers? Why not fake the questions?
The only thing the magazines are guilty of is trying to make it more interesting for the reader.
I agree that an article should be factual and we all strive to achieve that, Sometimes mistakes happen, sometimes we are told little white lies. None of us deliberatley set out to decieve anyone.
One problem we face is that some people refuse to believe things anyway. I've recently had to prove that a weight used in a Johnnie Jackson shoot was real and that plates were not added in photoshop. Next thing, they will have been fake weights. Then it will be they were held up by wires, then the martians etc etc.
There is no text in the Ask Mr Olympia section letting the reader know who the real writer is.
This is what I have a problem with. I don't have any problems with the fact that Ronnie isn't able to pen answers good enough to publish. Bringing in someone who's a professional writer/journalist makes a lot of sense.
But there should be NO attempt at hiding that there is a journalist penning down the answers from Ronnie.
Could look something like this:
- Ronnie Coleman, as written down by Julian Schmidt.
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MD does it too.
MD doesn't have their people on getbig trumpeting their justification for not putting the co-author's name on the article. You are, kev.
When Coleman tells us about the juxtaposition of something, and the only name on that column is Ronnie's. It's a tad misleading. It's one thing to correct grammar so as to not embarass someone.
Kev, what percentage, on average, do the athletes featured in FLEX mag actually write of their own articles?
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I think, as in many magazines, the person says what he wants to say, and someone else records it, and writes it down for them, perhaps fixing grammitcal errors, etc. Does that mean they have a ghost writer, or does that mean that they are editorialized a lot? For instance, if someone wants to write an article, and I help them get it down correctly, am I a ghost writer, or am I just helping out. Most of the articles are done with the same way. Ask questions, get the answers, until the article is done the way they feel is good.
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Crusher, you mentioned that Joe Weider called Romano. How do you know it wasn't Weider returning Romano's call crying for press passes.
Because I work for Romano and can tell you that the phone call was last week, before MD got banned. They had a great conversation that lasted abut a half hour. He has nothing but the highest regard for Joe.
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They sometimes go out of their ways to create sentences that are just silly. maybe they're trying to impress youths with "wow, ronnie has big muscles AND he speaks like a college professor... Go BSN!". They intentionally go out of their way to use big words to sound scientific when not really needed. When describing the greatness of protein drinks, it'd needn't be described as "the almighty unifier of macronutritional bliss- a plethora of branched-chain carboxylic acid and her ilk which - unbeknownst to me - could be expediently delivered in a nonsolid state of matter."
I could save 5 minutes of reading by scanning "Protein drinks are a great way to get your BCAAs in a liquid form". And if I asked Big Ron about that sentence, he wouldn't say "yes, I'm glad Orange Julius Schmidt fixed that one for me". Likely, he'd stare at me, quietly sign my DVD, and break eye contact as fast as possible.
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MD doesn't have their people on getbig trumpeting their justification for not putting the co-author's name on the article. You are, kev.
When Coleman tells us about the juxtaposition of something, and the only name on that column is Ronnie's. It's a tad misleading. It's one thing to correct grammar so as to not embarass someone.
Kev, what percentage, on average, do the athletes featured in FLEX mag actually write of their own articles?
I didn't mention MD though I did say all magazines do it. But you are well aware that MD have people here, so maybe you could ask them?
I was asked a question, I've tried to answer it from my point of you, you call that trumpetting!
i can only offer my opinion, I suggest e-mailing or calling the offfice for specific information.
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Could look something like this:
- Ronnie Coleman, as written down by Julian Schmidt.
Can you show me an example of another magazine that does this? Not a bodybuilding one.
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What faked answers are you talking about?
When it come to Flex articles, its all BS. 8)
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I think if you add up the number of pages MD spends on the Olympia (in their pre-Olympia coverage, including their columns where Chad and Rambod discuss their picks, the coverage of the show itself, and the analysis by Wheeler, Chad, Rambod, Glass, etc.) that MD gives the Olympia more coverage than Flex.
Hope AMI know what they're doing. No one likes to be insulted personally, but sometimes you take your lumps for the good of the team.
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Can you show me an example of another magazine that does this? Not a bodybuilding one.
Several of the Q&A columns in MD has got to be the real deal, although heavily edited for misspellings, wording and sentencing, you know the usual grammar stuff.
Why I believe this? Because frankly, the language in the answers aren't that of an experienced writer.
It's not as high quality in text.
But, and this is important, it is authentic.
I am claiming that it's wrong of FLEX to falsely advertise that the magazine have articles and columns by Ronnie Coleman and other pros. They aren't writing the articles.
Doesn't matter what MD or Muscletechmag does.
FLEX can only influence its own content and its own journalistic integrity.
Right now, the integrity is low.
What's wrong with giving up the secret that bodybuilders aren't great writers?
And some probably are, just like Cicherillo is great on the Radio, or even so more on TV.
Why shouldn't FLEX look for BB's whop could actually write?
And it was a long time since I saw a cutting edge article in FLEX. Why not have training gurus interviewed, or have them write training articles? Why having bodybuilders "writing" articles?
It's bullshit and boring.
Greg Merritt is a good writer BTW, as is Shawn Perine. And there are a few more.
They lack in journalistic integrity, avoiding the tough issues and bullshitting.
But they know a lot, and always nice looking articles. Most of FLEX is like that, except Julian "The word masturbator" Schmidt, who must be a very bitter man.
YIP
Zack
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Right now, the integrity is low.
Zack
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. All I can do is state my opinion, I have no say over the editorial decisions, buy I'll bring it up with the people who do.
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We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. All I can do is state my opinion, I have no say over the editorial decisions, buy I'll bring it up with the people who do.
Exactly. Opinions are like assholes.
And it's nothing personal to me. I still think the interview McGough did with Mentzer was brilliant, I consider McGough a very good writer.
He's still very much responsible for the content of FLEX. He's directly responsible for stuff like the Ask the Mr Olympia columns.
If stuff like that, and shit like those Mr Olympia odds (did you see those?) gets published, it's all on him.
He's responsible. He's the guy who establish a code of conduct for the magazine (in cooperation with his co-workers).
There are alot of competent contributors at FLEX: Perine, Roark, Lund, Horton, Merrit, McGough... It's a long list. No other mag can compete with that.
The problem seems to be with the leadership. The journalistic mission seems to have been lost. JMO.
YIP
Zack
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I represent myself.
I agree it must be getting boring though so I'm done.
you are paid by FLEX magazine
fat mac calls the shots at FLEX
also you happen to be good buddies with fat mac
therefore you represent FLEX, however trying to portray yourself as an "unbiased"entity
makes you about as fake as a flex article
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Zack,
What faked answers are you talking about?
The basis of the columns is from the bodybuilders themselves. They are interviewed at shows, photo shoots, over lunch, and over the phone. Why bother asking all those questions if they then fake the answers? Why not fake the questions?
The only thing the magazines are guilty of is trying to make it more interesting for the reader.
I agree that an article should be factual and we all strive to achieve that, Sometimes mistakes happen, sometimes we are told little white lies. None of us deliberatley set out to decieve anyone.
One problem we face is that some people refuse to believe things anyway. I've recently had to prove that a weight used in a Johnnie Jackson shoot was real and that plates were not added in photoshop. Next thing, they will have been fake weights. Then it will be they were held up by wires, then the martians etc etc.
boo hoo!
god forbid someone actually cast doubt on the almightly kev hoton!!
Kevin,
a few simple questions:
1) has flex magazine ever photoshopped any of the photos it publishes?
2) has flex magazine ever used fake weights in any of the photos it publishes?
3) does a flex article include everything a pro utilizes in articles entitled "how to get big guns like (insert pros name)"
4) does flex magazine even acknowledge the fact the pros use illegal anabolics in preparation for a contest?
5) Is ronnie coleman familiar with the word "axiom" ?
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The problem seems to be with the [Flex] leadership.
This easily explains why that AMI boss have been calling me.. Obviously, they want to kick McGough out and name Manninen dude as new captain of Flex.. ;D
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you are paid by FLEX magazine
fat mac calls the shots at FLEX
also you happen to be good buddies with fat mac
therefore you represent FLEX, however trying to portray yourself as an "unbiased"entity
makes you about as fake as a flex article
So true dude, this guy has a vested interest in Flex. He cannot be unbiased. He knows getbig is read by thousands of bb fans and he is scared shit that readership will drop when these fans realize what they already sort of knew, its fake and full of rehashed articles and values extremism. Why not tell the readership that the workouts published are only effective if you are using tons of gear? Why not do real reviews of bb products to see if they stand up to the hype? This thread has a ring of truth to it and instead of acknowledging it, FLEX reps are becoming defensive. Wrong move dudes.
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As told to Flex magazine...is that so hard to add? How much will it cost in sales if they do?
And for a magazine that insists it does not promote drug use, why is every last BB in every article or ad a user? Why tell us how the pros got that size if they also plan to leave out a major detail? Are they saying it's so understood that the BBs use that they don't feel they need to mention it? If so, then they certainly can't also claim to be anti-drug.
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As told to Flex magazine...is that so hard to add? How much will it cost in sales if they do?
And for a magazine that insists it does not promote drug use, why is every last BB in every article or ad a user? Why tell us how the pros got that size if they also plan to leave out a major detail? Are they saying it's so understood that the BBs use that they don't feel they need to mention it? If so, then they certainly can't also claim to be anti-drug.
amen brother
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In years gone by, often the words, 'as told by' or 'as told to' would appear by the title of an article. This happened frequently in the York publications, particularly in their Mr. America series after the new AAU Mr. America began his year's worth of training input.
But, had those words not appeared, I still would have figured out that probably the bodybuilder did not write the piece unaided, or for that matter, may not have typed at all, probably offered his routine via the telephone, or dictated in person to the author. Perhaps it was the author who insisted on co-credit.
Flex occasionally offers articles by Team Flex, but of course, there is no way for the reader to know what percentage of the piece was by which writer, and sometimes the writers aren't mentioned, just grouped under 'Team Flex'. Just curious if that tactic is also bothersome to those who prefer 'as told by' or somesuch? Probably not, since name bodybuilders are not implied as helping?
One other point, and I would appreciate serious response needing no call to the fire department to extinguish the flames, but if identity is so crucial in magazine writing, why do so many not use real identities here?
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I think I may have come up with an idea to satisfy the concerns some of you have over the use of "ghost writers" and the athletes columns. Obviously you can't please all the people all the time but it's a start.
What I suggest is that the columns will be presented as they are now but they will color code the text. Starting from a basic color of black:
If the athlete is interviewed either in person or by telephone his actual spoken words will always be in red apart from the following.
Blue words will indicate that the author prompted the athlete for the word during one of those "It's on the tip of my tongue" moments.
Green words will be used when the author questioned the athletes use of a word as in "Are you sure you mean squats?" when the article is about chest. It may be useful to have the original word in parenthesis.
Purple words would indicate that neither the author or athlete could establish exactly what was meant. Example:
Writer "So what's your second exercise?"
Athlete "You know that machine in the far corner at the gym?"
Writer "What gym?"
Athlete "The one I train at"
Writer "Shall we use a purple word?"
Athlete "Yes"
For articles where the athlete wrote notes and either sent them by mail. e-mailed, or presented them to the writer with a bunch of flowers - it happens - different colors will be used. I will have to confirm which ones with the art department. If this proposal is accepted I will post the colors here and also insist that a "color key" be printed at the top of the column.
For those of you who felt that skipping school was a good idea and now have to have a friend or family member read the columns out to you. I'd suggest enrolling the help of at least one other person who could gently sing out the color as the text is spoken. Church goers amongst you could ask the choir.
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I think I may have come up with an idea to satisfy the concerns some of you have over the use of "ghost writers" and the athletes columns. Obviously you can't please all the people all the time but it's a start.
What I suggest is that the columns will be presented as they are now but they will color code the text. Starting from a basic color of black:
If the athlete is interviewed either in person or by telephone his actual spoken words will always be in red apart from the following.
Blue words will indicate that the author prompted the athlete for the word during one of those "It's on the tip of my tongue" moments.
Green words will be used when the author questioned the athletes use of a word as in "Are you sure you mean squats?" when the article is about chest. It may be useful to have the original word in parenthesis.
Purple words would indicate that neither the author or athlete could establish exactly what was meant. Example:
Writer "So what's your second exercise?"
Athlete "You know that machine in the far corner at the gym?"
Writer "What gym?"
Athlete "The one I train at"
Writer "Shall we use a purple word?"
Athlete "Yes"
For articles where the athlete wrote notes and either sent them by mail. e-mailed, or presented them to the writer with a bunch of flowers - it happens - different colors will be used. I will have to confirm which ones with the art department. If this proposal is accepted I will post the colors here and also insist that a "color key" be printed at the top of the column.
For those of you who felt that skipping school was a good idea and now have to have a friend or family member read the columns out to you. I'd suggest enrolling the help of at least one other person who could gently sing out the color as the text is spoken. Church goers amongst you could ask the choir.
How about including the actual authors name somewhere in the article?
No but wait, that would be honest / accurate - a foreign concept at FLEX magazine.
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How about including the actual authors name somewhere in the article?
What color text would you like it to be in?
Oh wait, I guess you're one of the ones who would have to have it sung.
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What color text would you like it to be in?
Oh wait, I guess you're one of the ones who would have to have it sung.
Kevin,
I take it from your reponse, and your failure to answer or even ackowledge my questions
that you concede FLEX magazine is a misleading dishonest publication.
thanks
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Kevin,
I take it from your reponse, and your failure to answer or even ackowledge my questions
that you concede FLEX magazine is a misleading dishonest publication.
thanks
No, your assumption is wrong.
You already have a firm opinion that is not open to discussion. If my answer does not agree with your opinion, your response is too predictable.
When you've matured enough to respect someone elses opinion even though it differs to yours, please feel free to ask.
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your assesement of the facts is wrong.
when you learn to be objective regarding your employer (sometimes hard to do on a public forum)
then only will you earn some sort of credibilty on this board. Until that time you are nothing more than a
a FLEX/Ifbb lackey.
No, your assumption is wrong.
You already have a firm opinion that is not open to discussion. If my answer does not agree with your opinion, your response is too predictable.
When you've matured enough to respect someone elses opinion even though it differs to yours, please feel free to ask.
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your assesement of the facts is wrong.
when you learn to be objective regarding your employer (sometimes hard to do on a public forum)
then only will you earn some sort of credibilty on this board. Until that time you are nothing more than a
a FLEX/Ifbb lackey.
Being the loudest kid on the short bus is not something to be proud of.
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I think I may have come up with an idea to satisfy the concerns some of you have over the use of "ghost writers" and the athletes columns. Obviously you can't please all the people all the time but it's a start.
What I suggest is that the columns will be presented as they are now but they will color code the text. Starting from a basic color of black:
If the athlete is interviewed either in person or by telephone his actual spoken words will always be in red apart from the following.
Blue words will indicate that the author prompted the athlete for the word during one of those "It's on the tip of my tongue" moments.
Green words will be used when the author questioned the athletes use of a word as in "Are you sure you mean squats?" when the article is about chest. It may be useful to have the original word in parenthesis.
Purple words would indicate that neither the author or athlete could establish exactly what was meant. Example:
Writer "So what's your second exercise?"
Athlete "You know that machine in the far corner at the gym?"
Writer "What gym?"
Athlete "The one I train at"
Writer "Shall we use a purple word?"
Athlete "Yes"
For articles where the athlete wrote notes and either sent them by mail. e-mailed, or presented them to the writer with a bunch of flowers - it happens - different colors will be used. I will have to confirm which ones with the art department. If this proposal is accepted I will post the colors here and also insist that a "color key" be printed at the top of the column.
For those of you who felt that skipping school was a good idea and now have to have a friend or family member read the columns out to you. I'd suggest enrolling the help of at least one other person who could gently sing out the color as the text is spoken. Church goers amongst you could ask the choir.
1) you're insulting the readers of your magazine.
2) you're insulting the intelligence of every man who writes for FLEX
3) you're avoiding the question, why not include the name of the co-writer?
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Amazing that this is a topic that's deserving of 10 pages of bickering...
The bottom line is...does the article convey the thoughts/ opinions of the subject ?
I write many of my own articles...others are interview style, where the writer asks me what my routines consist of, or what my thoughts on various subjects are, etc.
This is done in every publication, at every level of the magazine business....
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1) you're insulting the readers of your magazine.
2) you're insulting the intelligence of every man who writes for FLEX
3) you're avoiding the question, why not include the name of the co-writer?
1) How?
2) How?
3) I personally don't consider it necessary, not only in FLEX but for any other magazine I read. If you really have an issue with it contact the editorial team.
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....magazines sell advertising. Simple. If the mags don't inspire in some way, don't buy em.
Where MD shines over FLEX is the interviews. At least they smack of SOME realism.
But FLEX's training articles??....bwahahahaha! They're all written by some schmuck whose thesaurus use needs SERIOUS curbing.
Sure, there's only a few ways to skin a cat, but come on FLEX. Get rid of that guy writing "waxing" this and that and watch sales increase.
But look at it this way...if FLEX talked about drugs (not that MD does a better job...in fact, MD does NOTHING with the drug info...it just prints the word "steroids" every now and then...not how to make sense of them!), at least they'd let the kids know that the physiques aren't possible with creatine, protein shakes and glutamine.
But they keep pushing that stuff.
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....magazines sell advertising. Simple. If the mags don't inspire in some way, don't buy em.
Where MD shines over FLEX is the interviews. At least they smack of SOME realism.
But FLEX's training articles??....bwahahahaha! They're all written by some schmuck whose thesaurus use needs SERIOUS curbing.
Sure, there's only a few ways to skin a cat, but come on FLEX. Get rid of that guy writing "waxing" this and that and watch sales increase.
But look at it this way...if FLEX talked about drugs (not that MD does a better job...in fact, MD does NOTHING with the drug info...it just prints the word "steroids" every now and then...not how to make sense of them!), at least they'd let the kids know that the physiques aren't possible with creatine, protein shakes and glutamine.
But they keep pushing that stuff.
the only value so far in the thread has been the humour derived from the
attempts at justifying the falsehoods perpetuated by flex.
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....magazines sell advertising. Simple. If the mags don't inspire in some way, don't buy em.
Where MD shines over FLEX is the interviews. At least they smack of SOME realism.
But FLEX's training articles??....bwahahahaha! They're all written by some schmuck whose thesaurus use needs SERIOUS curbing.
Sure, there's only a few ways to skin a cat, but come on FLEX. Get rid of that guy writing "waxing" this and that and watch sales increase.
But look at it this way...if FLEX talked about drugs (not that MD does a better job...in fact, MD does NOTHING with the drug info...it just prints the word "steroids" every now and then...not how to make sense of them!), at least they'd let the kids know that the physiques aren't possible with creatine, protein shakes and glutamine.
But they keep pushing that stuff.
Ummm.....the "kids" already know that!!! Why do some people think that MD is somehow making some revelation about anabolic use in bodybuilding?
I'm beginning to think that certain readers have short memories. If MD doesn't remind them every 10 seconds that IFBB pro use anabolics, they'll think that they'll actually have to train hard and smart and have a sound nutritional regime....OOOOHHHHHHHH THE HUMANITY!!!!
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Ummm.....the "kids" already know that!!! Why do some people think that MD is somehow making some revelation about anabolic use in bodybuilding?
You'd be surprised. More people believe "everything they read" than you think. Not to wax political, but what percent of Americans believe there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq? That Iraq had WMDs? That we have been visited by aliens many times and the governement is hiding it? Not such a leap that some people might also believe ZMA made Marion Jones the fastest woman in the world or that 250 pounds of muscle at 5 percent BF can be attained with hard work and the right diet ONLY.
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You'd be surprised. More people believe "everything they read" than you think. Not to wax political, but what percent of Americans believe there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq? That Iraq had WMDs? That we have been visited by aliens many times and the governement is hiding it? Not such a leap that some people might also believe ZMA made Marion Jones the fastest woman in the world or that 250 pounds of muscle at 5 percent BF can be attained with hard work and the right diet ONLY.
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Nobody is making that claim.....in EITHER magazine.
For some strange reason, I don't see no jaws dropping, when someone suggest that IFBB pros use performance-enhancing drugs.
As stated earlier, MD is obsessed with being the anti-FLEX, the rebels without a cause (and often, without a clue). In my opinion, MD has dropped in quality, ever since Don Ross dies back in 1995.
Alas, I've lost most of the MD mags I bought since 1993; the few I have left are of the MDFH/ANMD variety. When you compare those mags to MD (in its current incarnation), it's comical. Supposedly, Steve Blechman was forced to tow the corporate line by those mean old suits from Twinlab (most of whom were his own kinfolk).
I thought Skip LaCour and Ron "Alcatraz" Coleman were the future of bodybuilding. I am reminded of the poetic words of John Romano, If you're big, ripped, and got that way drug-free, you have a home at ANMD. This was in response to a Romano-started allegation that ANMD was receiving hate mail, because, since going to an all-natural format, most of the bodybuilders featured in the magazine were black.
As for high horses, perhaps, I should share the tirade that Blechman let legendary competitor, Steve Reeves, print in ANMD, voicing his disdain for the competitors of the mid/late 90s.
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This