FLEX vs MD: The battle gets dirty

[kmhphoto]

Could look something like this:

- Ronnie Coleman, as written down by Julian Schmidt.

Can you show me an example of another magazine that does this? Not a bodybuilding one.

[Manninen dude]

What faked answers are you talking about?

When it come to Flex articles, its all BS. 

[GHGut]

I think if you add up the number of pages MD spends on the Olympia (in their pre-Olympia coverage, including their columns where Chad and Rambod discuss their picks, the coverage of the show itself, and the analysis by Wheeler, Chad, Rambod, Glass, etc.) that MD gives the Olympia more coverage than Flex.

Hope AMI know what they're doing. No one likes to be insulted personally, but sometimes you take your lumps for the good of the team.

[Hedgehog]

Can you show me an example of another magazine that does this? Not a bodybuilding one.

Several of the Q&A columns in MD has got to be the real deal, although heavily edited for misspellings, wording and sentencing, you know the usual grammar stuff.

Why I believe this? Because frankly, the language in the answers aren't that of an experienced writer.

It's not as high quality in text.

But, and this is important, it is authentic.


I am claiming that it's wrong of FLEX to falsely advertise that the magazine have articles and columns by Ronnie Coleman and other pros. They aren't writing the articles.

Doesn't matter what MD or Muscletechmag does.

FLEX can only influence its own content and its own journalistic integrity.

Right now, the integrity is low.

What's wrong with giving up the secret that bodybuilders aren't great writers?

And some probably are, just like Cicherillo is great on the Radio, or even so more on TV.

Why shouldn't FLEX look for BB's whop could actually write?

And it was a long time since I saw a cutting edge article in FLEX. Why not have training gurus interviewed, or have them write training articles? Why having bodybuilders "writing" articles?

It's bullshit and boring.

Greg Merritt is a good writer BTW, as is Shawn Perine. And there are a few more.

They lack in journalistic integrity, avoiding the tough issues and bullshitting.

But they know a lot, and always nice looking articles. Most of FLEX is like that, except Julian "The word masturbator" Schmidt, who must be a very bitter man.

YIP
Zack

[kmhphoto]

Right now, the integrity is low.
Zack

We'll have to agree to disagree on that  one. All I can do is state my opinion, I have no say over the editorial decisions, buy I'll bring it up with the people who do.

[Hedgehog]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that  one. All I can do is state my opinion, I have no say over the editorial decisions, buy I'll bring it up with the people who do.

Exactly. Opinions are like assholes.

And it's nothing personal to me. I still think the interview McGough did with Mentzer was brilliant, I consider McGough a very good writer.

He's still very much responsible for the content of FLEX. He's directly responsible for stuff like the Ask the Mr Olympia columns.

If stuff like that, and shit like those Mr Olympia odds (did you see those?) gets published, it's all on him.

He's responsible. He's the guy who establish a code of conduct for the magazine (in cooperation with his co-workers).

There are alot of competent contributors at FLEX: Perine, Roark, Lund, Horton, Merrit, McGough... It's a long list. No other mag can compete with that.

The problem seems to be with the leadership. The journalistic mission seems to have been lost. JMO.

YIP
Zack

[dearth]

I represent myself.
I agree it must be getting boring though so I'm done.

you are paid by FLEX magazine
fat mac calls the shots at FLEX
also you happen to be good buddies with fat mac

therefore you represent FLEX, however trying to portray yourself as an "unbiased"entity
makes you about as fake as a flex article

[dearth]

Zack,
What faked answers are you talking about?
The basis of the columns is from the bodybuilders themselves. They are interviewed at shows, photo shoots, over lunch, and over the phone. Why bother asking all those questions if they then fake the answers? Why not fake the questions?
The only thing the magazines are guilty of is trying to make it more interesting for the reader.

I agree that an article should be factual and we all strive to achieve that, Sometimes mistakes happen, sometimes we are told little white lies. None of us deliberatley set out to decieve anyone.
One problem we face is that some people refuse to believe things anyway. I've recently had to prove that a weight used in a Johnnie Jackson shoot was real and that plates were not added in photoshop. Next thing, they will have been fake weights. Then it will be they were held up by wires, then the martians etc etc.

boo hoo!
 god forbid someone actually cast doubt on the almightly kev hoton!!

Kevin,
a few simple questions:
1) has flex magazine ever photoshopped any of the photos it publishes?
2) has flex magazine ever used fake weights in any of the photos it publishes?
3) does a flex article include everything a pro utilizes in articles entitled "how to get big guns like (insert pros name)"
4) does flex magazine even acknowledge the fact the pros use illegal anabolics in preparation for a contest?
5) Is ronnie coleman familiar with the word "axiom" ?

[Manninen dude]

The problem seems to be with the [Flex] leadership.

This easily explains why that AMI boss have been calling me.. Obviously, they want to kick McGough out and name Manninen dude as new captain of Flex.. 

[nycbull]

you are paid by FLEX magazine
fat mac calls the shots at FLEX
also you happen to be good buddies with fat mac

therefore you represent FLEX, however trying to portray yourself as an "unbiased"entity
makes you about as fake as a flex article

So true dude, this guy has a vested interest in Flex. He cannot be unbiased. He knows getbig is read by thousands of bb fans and he is scared shit that readership will drop when these fans realize what they already sort of knew, its fake and full of rehashed articles and values extremism. Why not tell the readership that the workouts published are only effective if you are using tons of gear? Why not do real reviews of bb products to see if they stand up to the hype? This thread has a ring of truth to it and instead of acknowledging it, FLEX reps are becoming defensive. Wrong move dudes.

[mrsirjojo]

As told to Flex magazine...is that so hard to add? How much will it cost in sales if they do?

And for a magazine that insists it does not promote drug use, why is every last BB in every article or ad a user? Why tell us how the pros got that size if they also plan to leave out a major detail? Are they saying it's so understood that the BBs use that they don't feel they need to mention it? If so, then they certainly can't also claim to be anti-drug.

[nycbull]

As told to Flex magazine...is that so hard to add? How much will it cost in sales if they do?

And for a magazine that insists it does not promote drug use, why is every last BB in every article or ad a user? Why tell us how the pros got that size if they also plan to leave out a major detail? Are they saying it's so understood that the BBs use that they don't feel they need to mention it? If so, then they certainly can't also claim to be anti-drug.

amen brother

[Joe Roark]

In years gone by, often the words, 'as told by' or 'as told to' would appear by the title of an article. This happened frequently in the York publications, particularly in their Mr. America series after the new AAU Mr. America began his year's worth of training input.

But, had those words not appeared, I still would have figured out that probably the bodybuilder did not write the piece unaided, or for that matter, may not have typed at all, probably offered his routine via the telephone, or dictated in person to the author. Perhaps it was the author who insisted on co-credit.

Flex occasionally offers articles by Team Flex, but of course, there is no way for the reader to know what percentage of the piece was by which writer, and sometimes the writers aren't mentioned, just grouped under 'Team Flex'. Just curious if that tactic is also bothersome to those who prefer 'as told by' or somesuch? Probably not, since name bodybuilders are not implied as helping?

One other point, and I would appreciate serious response needing no call to the fire department to extinguish the flames, but if identity is so crucial in magazine writing, why do so many not use real identities here?

[kmhphoto]

I think I may have come up with an idea to satisfy the concerns some of you have over the use of "ghost writers" and the athletes columns. Obviously you can't please all the people all the time but it's a start.

What I suggest is that the columns will be presented as they are now but they will color code the text. Starting from a basic color of black:

If the athlete is interviewed either in person or by telephone his actual spoken words will always be in red apart from the following.

Blue words will indicate that the author prompted the athlete for the word during one of those "It's on the tip of my tongue" moments.

Green words will be used when the author questioned the athletes use of a word as in "Are you sure you mean squats?" when the article is about chest. It may be useful to have the original word in parenthesis.

Purple words would indicate that neither the author or athlete could establish exactly what was meant. Example:
Writer "So what's your second exercise?"
Athlete "You know that machine in the far corner at the gym?"
Writer "What gym?"
Athlete "The one I train at"
Writer "Shall we use a purple word?"
Athlete "Yes"

For articles where the athlete wrote notes and either sent them by mail. e-mailed,  or presented them to the writer with a bunch of flowers - it happens - different colors will be used. I will have to confirm which ones with the art department. If this proposal is accepted I will post the colors here and also insist that a "color key" be printed at the top of the column.

For those of you who felt that skipping school was a good idea and now have to have a friend or family member read the columns out to you. I'd suggest enrolling the help of at least one other person who could gently sing out the color as the text is spoken. Church goers amongst you could ask the choir.

[dearth]

I think I may have come up with an idea to satisfy the concerns some of you have over the use of "ghost writers" and the athletes columns. Obviously you can't please all the people all the time but it's a start.

What I suggest is that the columns will be presented as they are now but they will color code the text. Starting from a basic color of black:

If the athlete is interviewed either in person or by telephone his actual spoken words will always be in red apart from the following.

Blue words will indicate that the author prompted the athlete for the word during one of those "It's on the tip of my tongue" moments.

Green words will be used when the author questioned the athletes use of a word as in "Are you sure you mean squats?" when the article is about chest. It may be useful to have the original word in parenthesis.

Purple words would indicate that neither the author or athlete could establish exactly what was meant. Example:
Writer "So what's your second exercise?"
Athlete "You know that machine in the far corner at the gym?"
Writer "What gym?"
Athlete "The one I train at"
Writer "Shall we use a purple word?"
Athlete "Yes"

For articles where the athlete wrote notes and either sent them by mail. e-mailed,  or presented them to the writer with a bunch of flowers - it happens - different colors will be used. I will have to confirm which ones with the art department. If this proposal is accepted I will post the colors here and also insist that a "color key" be printed at the top of the column.

For those of you who felt that skipping school was a good idea and now have to have a friend or family member read the columns out to you. I'd suggest enrolling the help of at least one other person who could gently sing out the color as the text is spoken. Church goers amongst you could ask the choir.

How about including the actual authors name somewhere in the article?
No but wait, that would be honest / accurate - a foreign concept at FLEX magazine.

[kmhphoto]

How about including the actual authors name somewhere in the article?

What color text would you like it to be in?
Oh wait, I guess you're one of the ones who would have to have it sung.

[dearth]

What color text would you like it to be in?
Oh wait, I guess you're one of the ones who would have to have it sung.

Kevin,

I take it from your reponse, and your failure to answer or even ackowledge my questions
that you concede FLEX magazine is a misleading dishonest publication.

thanks

[kmhphoto]

Kevin,

I take it from your reponse, and your failure to answer or even ackowledge my questions
that you concede FLEX magazine is a misleading dishonest publication.

thanks

No, your assumption is wrong.
You already have a firm opinion that is not open to discussion. If my answer does not agree with your opinion, your response is too predictable.
When you've matured enough to respect someone elses opinion even though it differs to yours, please feel free to ask.

[dearth]

your assesement of the facts is wrong.
when you learn to be objective regarding your employer (sometimes hard to do on a public forum)
then only will you earn some sort of credibilty on this board. Until that time you are nothing more than a
a FLEX/Ifbb lackey.

No, your assumption is wrong.
You already have a firm opinion that is not open to discussion. If my answer does not agree with your opinion, your response is too predictable.
When you've matured enough to respect someone elses opinion even though it differs to yours, please feel free to ask.

[kmhphoto]

your assesement of the facts is wrong.
when you learn to be objective regarding your employer (sometimes hard to do on a public forum)
then only will you earn some sort of credibilty on this board. Until that time you are nothing more than a
a FLEX/Ifbb lackey.

Being the loudest kid on the short bus is not something to be proud of.

[240 is Back]

I think I may have come up with an idea to satisfy the concerns some of you have over the use of "ghost writers" and the athletes columns. Obviously you can't please all the people all the time but it's a start.

What I suggest is that the columns will be presented as they are now but they will color code the text. Starting from a basic color of black:

If the athlete is interviewed either in person or by telephone his actual spoken words will always be in red apart from the following.

Blue words will indicate that the author prompted the athlete for the word during one of those "It's on the tip of my tongue" moments.

Green words will be used when the author questioned the athletes use of a word as in "Are you sure you mean squats?" when the article is about chest. It may be useful to have the original word in parenthesis.

Purple words would indicate that neither the author or athlete could establish exactly what was meant. Example:
Writer "So what's your second exercise?"
Athlete "You know that machine in the far corner at the gym?"
Writer "What gym?"
Athlete "The one I train at"
Writer "Shall we use a purple word?"
Athlete "Yes"

For articles where the athlete wrote notes and either sent them by mail. e-mailed,  or presented them to the writer with a bunch of flowers - it happens - different colors will be used. I will have to confirm which ones with the art department. If this proposal is accepted I will post the colors here and also insist that a "color key" be printed at the top of the column.

For those of you who felt that skipping school was a good idea and now have to have a friend or family member read the columns out to you. I'd suggest enrolling the help of at least one other person who could gently sing out the color as the text is spoken. Church goers amongst you could ask the choir.

1) you're insulting the readers of your magazine.
2) you're insulting the intelligence of every man who writes for FLEX
3) you're avoiding the question, why not include the name of the co-writer?

[Chick]

Amazing that this is a topic that's deserving of 10 pages of bickering...

The bottom line is...does the article convey the thoughts/ opinions of the subject ?

 I write many of my own articles...others are interview style, where the writer asks me what my routines consist of,  or what my thoughts on various subjects are, etc.

This is done in every publication, at every level of the magazine business....

[kmhphoto]

1) you're insulting the readers of your magazine.
2) you're insulting the intelligence of every man who writes for FLEX
3) you're avoiding the question, why not include the name of the co-writer?

1) How?
2) How?
3) I personally don't consider it necessary, not only in FLEX but for any other magazine I read. If you really have an issue with it contact the editorial team.

[bic_staedtler]

....magazines sell advertising.  Simple.  If the mags don't inspire in some way, don't buy em.

Where MD shines over FLEX is the interviews.  At least they smack of SOME realism. 

But FLEX's training articles??....bwahahahaha!  They're all written by some schmuck whose thesaurus use needs SERIOUS curbing.

Sure, there's only a few ways to skin a cat, but come on FLEX.  Get rid of that guy writing "waxing" this and that and watch sales increase. 

But look at it this way...if FLEX talked about drugs (not that MD does a better job...in fact, MD does NOTHING with the drug info...it just prints the word "steroids" every now and then...not how to make sense of them!), at least they'd let the kids know that the physiques aren't possible with creatine, protein shakes and glutamine.

But they keep pushing that stuff. 

[dearth]

....magazines sell advertising.  Simple.  If the mags don't inspire in some way, don't buy em.

Where MD shines over FLEX is the interviews.  At least they smack of SOME realism. 

But FLEX's training articles??....bwahahahaha!  They're all written by some schmuck whose thesaurus use needs SERIOUS curbing.

Sure, there's only a few ways to skin a cat, but come on FLEX.  Get rid of that guy writing "waxing" this and that and watch sales increase. 

But look at it this way...if FLEX talked about drugs (not that MD does a better job...in fact, MD does NOTHING with the drug info...it just prints the word "steroids" every now and then...not how to make sense of them!), at least they'd let the kids know that the physiques aren't possible with creatine, protein shakes and glutamine.

But they keep pushing that stuff. 

the only value so far in the thread has been the humour derived from the
attempts at justifying the falsehoods perpetuated by flex.