God will heal your kidney failure

[Man of Steel]

To choose a religion and follow a path you must therefore reject all others.


Thats counter productive to a tolerant society.

That is all.

Ravi Zacharias would like to add a little more if you don't mind.

[Simple Simon]

Ravi Zacharias would like to add a little more if you don't mind.

Could you bullet point that vid, 1 hour 46 of my life is quite important to me.

[bigmc]

Again, that's fine.  Would you help me understand how you know that prayer is false or doesn't do anything as you put it?

the burden of proof is with you my friend

i have prayed a thousand times not selfishly

but for the innocents of the world

help me understand how prayer works

and i mean with quantifiable evidence

[Man of Steel]

Could you bullet point that vid, 1 hour 46 of my life is quite important to me.

Respectfully, try doing what I do each day while I work.  One ear bud in listening to debates, lectures and music another ear open on my work.  You'd be amazed how fast 2 hours can go by; plus, Ravi's presentations are best initially absorbed without the "Cliffs Notes" approach....that's great for review after the fact.

[bigmc]

I often wonder why humanity, empowered by God to maintain his ample creation, would allow portions of humanity to starve when there are resources available for the entire planet and yet we sit idle and just take pictures of these folks for National Geographic or a 20/20 segment?

We (collective humanity) have every ample resource at our fingertips provided by God to care for the entire planet and we don't do it. 

Why?

do you believe god created us

then why are we so flawed

why do we kill and perpetrate evil if we are created in his image

you construct your arguments well

but the bottom line is your beliefs are something you need

because as a flawed human you cannot grasp the concept that this is all there is

and that when you die that is it

this type of head shaking preaching really pisses me off

[Simple Simon]

Respectfully, try doing what I do each day while I work.  One ear bud in listening to debates, lectures and music another ear open on my work.  You'd be amazed how fast 2 hours can go by; plus, Ravi's presentations are best initially absorbed without the "Cliffs Notes" approach....that's great for review after the fact.

Lol, I have a job where thats simply not possible.
I have to be on the ball at work.

Kudos to you that you have managed to get a job that only requires you to do it half hearted.

Maybe I should say my prayers.  

[Man of Steel]

the burden of proof is with you my friend

i have prayed a thousand times not selfishly

but for the innocents of the world

help me understand how prayer works

and i mean with quantifiable evidence

The burden of proof of NightTrain's claim is mine?  Forgive me, but how does that work LOL?

Once again, let's revisit my initial comment

It always interests me that the vast majority of experts on prayer and those that simply mock prayer have no understanding of prayer or ever engage in prayer.

I think that's admirable and selfless that you chose to pray for others like that. 

I agree that prayer should be about others and God.  My daily prayers usually contain four primary "points" (for lack of a better word):

1) Prayer that God's will be done in my life.
2) Prayer that others will see Jesus Christ in me.
3) Prayer for the specific needs of others.
4) Prayer about gratitude and worship for God.

[The Ugly]

The burden of proof of NightTrain's claim is mine?  Forgive me, but how does that work LOL?

Once again, let's revisit my initial comment

I think that's admirable and selfless that you chose to pray for others like that. 

I agree that prayer should be about others and God.  My daily prayers usually contain four primary "points" (for lack of a better word):

1) Prayer that God's will be done in my life.
2) Prayer that others will see Jesus Christ in me.
3) Prayer for the specific needs of others.
4) Prayer about gratitude and worship for God.

Isn't that gonna happen regardless?

[Man of Steel]

Lol, I have a job where thats simply not possible.
I have to be on the ball at work.

Kudos to you that you have managed to get a job that only requires you to do it half hearted.

Maybe I should say my prayers.  

That's ok, maybe you can listen later.

[NightTrain]

Not a problem.  Are you willing to do your part?  Because it will require your humble, honest participation.

fuck this

[NightTrain]

Again, that's fine.  Would you help me understand how you know that prayer is false or doesn't do anything as you put it?

I cant, and you cant prove it does
and thats why we choose to believe what we believe (or dont believe as the case may be)

[Man of Steel]

Isn't that gonna happen regardless?

Just need a little clarification.  Are you asking if God's will is going to happen regardless?  If so, regardless of what exactly?

[Man of Steel]

I cant, and you cant prove it does
and thats why we choose to believe what we believe (or dont believe as the case may be)

Well you are free to make that choice.

[The Ugly]

Just need a little clarification.  Are you asking if God's will is going to happen regardless?  If so, regardless of what exactly?

Yes, regardless of prayer.

[Man of Steel]

do you believe god created us

then why are we so flawed

why do we kill and perpetrate evil if we are created in his image

you construct your arguments well

but the bottom line is your beliefs are something you need

because as a flawed human you cannot grasp the concept that this is all there is

and that when you die that is it

this type of head shaking preaching really pisses me off

Yes I believe God created us.

I believe we are flawed because of our choice to sin.

His image does not mean we have his nature....he is divine in nature, we are human in nature.....he is infinite, we are finite.....he is holy and righteous and we are in need of being deemed righteous.

And you ask solid questions and I don't mean to make you angry....sincerely.

[Simple Simon]

Why did God create us, what would be the point?

[Man of Steel]

Yes, regardless of prayer.

Are you suggesting then that God's will cannot be defied and therefore our prayers are meaningless because his will is predetermined?

[Man of Steel]

Why did God create us, what would be the point?

I honestly don't know every reason he created us, but I do know he did create us so that we may freely choose a relationship with him that he will honor eternally.  He wants us to want to draw close to him as much as he wants to draw close to us.

[bigmc]

I honestly don't know every reason he created us, but I do know he did create us so that we may freely choose a relationship with him that he will honor eternally.  He wants us to want to draw close to him as much as he wants to draw close to us.

then why does he try so hard to disguise his existence

why didnt he show someone like me a sign

who grew up religious and prayed to him every night

all the world has shown me is that we are the worst part of it

and that god as described by you cannot exist

[NightTrain]

then why does he try so hard to disguise his existence

why didnt he show someone like me a sign

who grew up religious and prayed to him every night

all the world has shown me is that we are the worst part of it

and that god as described by you cannot exist

whats with you? You are on fire lately with amazing stuff that is bang on (no brownnose)

[Man of Steel]

then why does he try so hard to disguise his existence

why didnt he show someone like me a sign

who grew up religious and prayed to him every night

all the world has shown me is that we are the worst part of it

and that god as described by you cannot exist

I don't know if you want to share publically (if so feel free to PM me), but what is your religious background (and forgive me if you shared this with me previously).

Well, I don't think God has ever hidden his existence.  He literally traveled place to place with the early nation of Israel and made his power evident and manifest before them repeatedly both in the miraculous and the traveling temple.

God entered his creation as the incarnate son in Jesus Christ and dwelt among his creation as a human being for over 3 decades before ascending back to his heavenly thrown.

Apostle Paul made it plain that God reveals himself to all through his creation.  

God is made tangible and manifest to his body of believers of today via the Holy Spirit....his presence can literally be felt.

God does show some signs via visions and dreams; in fact, many Muslims who leave Islam and come Christianity have professed visions and dreams of Jesus Christ.

My friend, I don't know why God has not yet revealed himself to you, but I would consider his perfect timing in these matters.  Within my own life the Lord allowed me to broken down to the point that I was at death's door with literally a foot in the grave before I honestly surrendered myself to his will for my life.  In that moment he revealed himself to me in powerful ways and continues to do so.  Today I strive to represent Christ and share with others the good news of his gift of salvation and freedom from our sin.

I agree that humanity is the worst part of the world because it chooses sin, but those that repent or change their mind about their choice to sin and accept what the incarnate son in Jesus Christ came to do on calvary's cross can be freed from the shackles of their sin and become the redeemed church of Jesus Christ called to be the salt and light of the world.  We have an opportunity to become the best of the world, but we must freely choose Christ so that we may be deemed righteous.

Why can't he exist?

[The Ugly]

Are you suggesting then that God's will cannot be defied and therefore our prayers are meaningless because his will is predetermined?

So then logically the only thing to ever pray for would be for God to do what he planned to do anyway.

This bugs me, though. When prayers are "answered," God gets credit. When they aren't, it's man/sin or God's will. This baffled me even when I believed.

Appreciate your responses, friend, no disrespect intended.

[syntaxmachine]

Respectfully, I made a statement about those that mock prayer yet have never engaged in prayer, but somehow they know it's a false practice.  

Prayer is a relatively well-studied phenomenon -- it is uncontroversial to say that it doesn't work in most contexts ('work' in the sense of producing the desired outcome more than would occur at random), and that the placebo effect is responsible in instances where it does work.

[Simple Simon]

I don't know if you want to share publically (if so feel free to PM me), but what is your religious background (and forgive me if you shared this with me previously).

Well, I don't think God has ever hidden his existence.  He literally traveled place to place with the early nation of Israel and made his power evident and manifest before them repeatedly both in the miraculous and the traveling temple.

God entered his creation as the incarnate son in Jesus Christ and dwelt among his creation as a human being for over 3 decades before ascending back to his heavenly thrown.

Apostle Paul made it plain that God reveals himself to all through his creation.  

God is made tangible and manifest to his body of believers of today via the Holy Spirit....his presence can literally be felt.

God does show some signs via visions and dreams; in fact, many Muslims who leave Islam and come Christianity have professed visions and dreams of Jesus Christ.

My friend, I don't know why God has not yet revealed himself to you, but I would consider his perfect timing in these matters.  Within my own life the Lord allowed me to broken down to the point that I was at death's door with literally a foot in the grave before I honestly surrendered myself to his will for my life.  In that moment he revealed himself to me in powerful ways and continues to do so.  Today I strive to represent Christ and share with others the good news of his gift of salvation and freedom from our sin.

I agree that humanity is the worst part of the world because it chooses sin, but those that repent or change their mind about their choice to sin and accept what the incarnate son in Jesus Christ came to do on calvary's cross can be freed from the shackles of their sin and become the redeemed church of Jesus Christ called to be the salt and light of the world.  We have an opportunity to become the best of the world, but we must freely choose Christ so that we may be deemed righteous.

Why can't he exist?

Epic trolling.

Why, if God is all knowing ,would he create us and give us 'free will' knowing exactly what our choices would be?

An omnipresent being surely would have better things to be getting on with.

[SF1900]

God cures bodybuilders kidney who injects drugs into his body.

God sits by and let's children be abused every day.

Even if there was a god, would you believe in something with logic like that? If god does exist, He sure is an asshole.