God will heal your kidney failure

[RagingBull]

 

Meanwhile god is ignoring the shit out of my anal fistula.

[Simple Simon]

"God can do anything" say the believers.

OK, Can God create a boulder so large he cant pick it up?

 

[bigmc]

Why can't he exist?

why indeed

you believe he does i believe he doesnt

hard facts in these matters are hard to present

therefore you look at the other evidence

i would argue that religion historically has been used as a way of imposing rules and morality in society

the pay off being that there is some kind of prize at the end of the rainbow if you follow the rules eg eternal paradise

some religions like the catholic church go one better

you can be evil all your life then repent your sins and go to heaven

which is the best deal ever and probably is why its attractive to child abusers

the closest i ever come to believing in god is when i look at my children

for children are the real miracle in life

but then i look at the millions of innocent children who die every day and the random actst of violence and hatred perpetrated by man

and i think there is no god there cant be

or if there is he doesnt give a shit what happens to us

and if that is the case why would i give a shit about him

[Simple Simon]

Why can't he exist?

why indeed

you believe he does i believe he doesnt

hard facts in these matters are hard to present

therefore you look at the other evidence

i would argue that religion historically has been used as a way of imposing rules and morality in society

the pay off being that there is some kind of prize at the end of the rainbow if you follow the rules eg eternal paradise

some religions like the catholic church go one better

you can be evil all your life then repent your sins and go to heaven

which is the best deal ever and probably is why its attractive to child abusers

the closest i ever come to believing in god is when i look at my children

for children are the real miracle in life

but then i look at the millions of innocent children who die every day and the random actst of violence and hatred perpetrated by man

and i think there is no god there cant be

or if there is he doesnt give a shit what happens to us

and if that is the case why would i give a shit about him

The burden of proof lies with he who affirms (MOS)

Its not for you to prove Unicorns dont exist, that fact that there are none about is your evidence.
Its up to people who claim Unicorns exist to produce one.

[Man of Steel]

So then logically the only thing to ever pray for would be for God to do what he planned to do anyway.

This bugs me, though. When prayers are "answered," God gets credit. When they aren't, it's man/sin or God's will. This baffled me even when I believed.

Appreciate your responses, friend, no disrespect intended.

It's all good....I'll do my best.

When one considers God's predetermined will we should also consider whether or not his will has also been pre-executed.  If that were the case then the biblical notion of free will would be meaningless as we are merely puppets.  

Still we can see a clear case of God's will being defied and our individual free will being upheld in this very thread.

I think for most the notion that God desires all to come unto him in faith and repentance is without much question.  Our Lord Jesus Christ wanted that all of humanity would come to him and claim him as savior and enter into an everlasting relationship with him.  His will is pretty evident in that regard.  That said, if we have free will then the Lord's will for us to come unto him and claim him as God, Lord and Savior can be defied.  To illustrate simply we note the following reply chain within this very thread:

MOS
prove there is a god
thats all, just physically prove it

Not a problem.  Are you willing to do your part?  Because it will require your humble, honest participation.

fuck this

I cant, and you cant prove it does
and thats why we choose to believe what we believe (or dont believe as the case may be)

Well you are free to make that choice.

Right there we have God wanting all to come unto him and one freely choosing not to and God’s predetermined will is defied our individual free will is upheld…..it’s as simple as that.

But of what of God’s foreknowledge?  Does this mean that our free will is meaningless because God foreknows our choices?   I don't believe so at all....foreknowledge does not mean the choices have been made for us.  Many posit that God could create any number of universes to satisfy a specific circumstance, but I believe he has created the perfect universe already using his foreknowledge of our future free choices.  In doing so he provided the opportunity for his own creation to eliminate evil and suffering via their choice for Jesus Christ.  He fashioned the world in such a way that our choices would be upheld and he didn't force us to choose one way or another (one exception in that we do have to choose whether to accept or reject God).  Yes, his foreknowledge comes before the actual free choices we make, but his creation was contingent upon those future free choices and was perfectly fashioned to uphold them.

Yes when prayers are answered with a “yes” then “God is great”, but when prayers are answered with a “no” then “God is not great”.   Today my perception about prayers answered “no” coupled with continued stress and suffering has changed.  Before I shook my fist at God in defiance, but today I recognize opportunity and providence as I know my God would only put before me that which he knows I can handle and learn from.  It’s a divine opportunity to draw that much closer to my Savior.  I don’t prefer the struggle, but I’ve seen the Lord take me straight through the fire time and time again.  Those private moments of prayer are times of fellowship and worship with Jesus Christ in which I often get to feel his divine presence in the Holy Spirit, but above all I always seek his will because he’s affirmed for me time and again that his will for my life is far better than my own will (unless my will is aligned with his).  Sure, he’ll honor my will, but the greatest achievements and happiness have all happened when done in accordance with his will.

Sorry for the novel.

[Man of Steel]

Epic trolling.

Why, if God is all knowing ,would he create us and give us 'free will' knowing exactly what our choices would be?

An omnipresent being surely would have better things to be getting on with.

see my post above

[Simple Simon]

New International Version
He will repay them for their sins and destroy them for their wickedness; the LORD our God will destroy them.

New Living Translation
God will turn the sins of evil people back on them. He will destroy them for their sins. The LORD our God will destroy them.

English Standard Version
He will bring back on them their iniquity and wipe them out for their wickedness; the LORD our God will wipe them out.

New American Standard Bible
He has brought back their wickedness upon them And will destroy them in their evil; The LORD our God will destroy them.

King James Bible
And he shall bring upon them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness; yea, the LORD our God shall cut them off.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He will pay them back for their sins and destroy them for their evil. The LORD our God will destroy them.

International Standard Version
He will repay them for their sin; he will annihilate them because of their evil. The LORD our God will annihilate them.

NET Bible
He will pay them back for their sin. He will destroy them because of their evil; the LORD our God will destroy them.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
He returns their evil against them and their companions in their evils, he silences such; Lord Jehovah our God silences them!

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He has turned their own wickedness against them. He will destroy them because of their sins. The LORD our God will destroy them.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And he shall bring upon them their own iniquity and shall cut them off in their own wickedness; yea, the LORD our God shall cut them off.

King James 2000 Bible
And he shall bring upon them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness; yea, the LORD our God shall cut them off.

American King James Version
And he shall bring on them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness; yes, the LORD our God shall cut them off.

American Standard Version
And he hath brought upon them their own iniquity, And will cut them off in their own wickedness; Jehovah our God will cut them off.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And he will render them their iniquity: and in their malice he will destroy them: the Lord our God will destroy them.

Darby Bible Translation
And he will bring upon them their iniquity, and will cut them off in their own evil: Jehovah our God will cut them off.

English Revised Version
And he hath brought upon them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own evil; the LORD our God shall cut them off.

Webster's Bible Translation
And he will bring upon them their own iniquity, and will cut them off in their own wickedness; yes, the LORD our God will cut them off.

World English Bible
He has brought on them their own iniquity, and will cut them off in their own wickedness. Yahweh, our God, will cut them off.

Young's Literal Translation
And turneth back on them their iniquity, And in their wickedness cutteth them off; Jehovah our God doth cut them off!

Can someone give me a clue when hes going to actually do something?

[Simple Simon]

http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

[Man of Steel]

Can someone give me a clue when hes going to actually do something?

I can promise you this much.....I don't know.

[Man of Steel]

The burden of proof lies with he who affirms (MOS)

Its not for you to prove Unicorns dont exist, that fact that there are none about is your evidence.
Its up to people who claim Unicorns exist to produce one.

I agree.

If you want to experience God's reality I encourage it and I'm more than willing to help, but this leads me back to an earlier post:

Not a problem.  Are you willing to do your part?  Because it will require your humble, honest participation.

[Simple Simon]

I can promise you this much.....I don't know.

Im out, you must be trolling.   

[James28]

I agree.

If you want to experience God's reality I encourage it and I'm more than willing to help, but this leads me back to an earlier post:

I'll be interested in this. We can make history. It'll be the first time in the whole Earth's history that this god fella is proved to be real.

Word of warning, I'm not in the habit of lying to myself so I'm not going to convince myself of a load of shit. Conclusive proof, or he can go suck the devil's ass.

[Man of Steel]

"God can do anything" say the believers.

OK, Can God create a boulder so large he cant pick it up?

 

God entered his creation as the incarnate son in Jesus Christ.  He became a normal man who emptied himself of his divine power, but yet was every bit God.  Further all things were created through Jesus Christ including all that exists on earth and yet while on earth he could not lift all the different boulders on earth.

[James28]

God entered his creation as the incarnate son in Jesus Christ.  He became a normal man who emptied himself of his divine power, but yet was every bit God.  Further all things were created through Jesus Christ including all that exists on earth and yet while on earth he could not lift all the different boulders on earth.

Prove it

[Simple Simon]

God entered his creation as the incarnate son in Jesus Christ.  He became a normal man who emptied himself of his divine power, but yet was every bit God.  Further all things were created through Jesus Christ including all that exists on earth and yet while on earth he could not lift all the different boulders on earth.

Thanks for that, now can God create a boulder he cant move?

So he couldn't move boulders yet he could walk on water and feed 5000 people with a few fish and loaves and rise from the dead???

moving boulders should have been a piece of piss.   

[James28]

Thanks for that, now can God create a boulder he cant move?

He can't prove any of it. He convinced himself without any evidence.

[Simple Simon]

He can't prove any of it. He convinced himself without any evidence.

Faith, the belief in something that deep down you just know isn't true.

[James28]

Faith, the belief in something that deep down you just know isn't true.

Or plainly called, illusion. Believing hard in something that can never be proved.

There's zero difference in any religion or even new BS religions. Maybe that's the definition of religion. Believe in something, not real.

[Simple Simon]

Or plainly called, illusion. Believing hard in something that can never be proved.

There's zero difference in any religion or even new fake religions. Maybe that's the definition of religion. Believe in something, not real.

I think its an excuse to avoid taking total control of your own life.

[Man of Steel]

I'll be interested in this. We can make history. It'll be the first time in the whole Earth's history that this god fella is proved to be real.

Word of warning, I'm not in the habit of lying to myself so I'm not going to convince myself of a load of shit. Conclusive proof, or he can go suck the devil's ass.

The greatest proof is also the proof that is the most quickly discarded, but is requires proactivity on part of each individual.  For me it's found in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within believers.  It is literally being attached at soul with the very spirit of God and experiencing his tangible presence.  Simple as that and undeniable proof for each individual that comes to Jesus Christ with humility, honesty, a desirous heart, attitude of repentance (in regards to their sin) and claiming him as Lord and Savior.

Romans 10:9
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

The road to hell is broad, but Jesus Christ is the narrow gate to salvation.  That gate is always open, but each individual must be willing to walk through on God's terms and not their own.  One must be willing to surrender to God's will.  Do that and his reality will be made manifest and tangible in your lives.

I know this will be mocked.....that doesn't concern me in the least because the truth is I desire for each of you to experience Christ's love like I have.....it's right there at your fingertips.

[NightTrain]

He can't prove any of it. He convinced himself without any evidence.

this
and then asks us to participate to prove its real
listen MOS if I ask you to go out and find me a 5 legged dog cause you said its real, Im not going to participate in the hunt for this thing. Its your job to find this 5 legged dog and then show it to me, then I will believe its real.

You are really starting to spew a load of shit and making yourself look like a tool...which, essentially, is how 99% of religious people end up looking

[James28]

The greatest proof is also the proof that is the most quickly discarded, but is requires proactivity on part of each individual.  For me it's found in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within believers.  It is literally being attached at soul with the very spirit of God and experiencing his tangible presence.  Simple as that and undeniable proof for each individual that comes to Jesus Christ with humility, honesty, a desirous heart, attitude of repentance (in regards to their sin) and claiming him as Lord and Savior.

Romans 10:9
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

The road to hell is broad, but Jesus Christ is the narrow gate to salvation.  That gate is always open, but each individual must be willing to walk through on the God's terms and not their own.  One must be willing to surrender to God's will.  Do that and his will be made manifest and tangible in your lives.

I know this will be mocked.....that doesn't concern me in the least because the truth is I desire for each of you to experience Christ's love like I have.....it's right there at your fingertips.

Proactivity? As in, 'proactively' convince myself? Jeeeee-zusss. This is your evidence? Telling myself a load of shit over and over again so it becomes the truth?

Proactively convince yourself pancakes can talk. You seem to be good at it.

[NightTrain]

cause some dude wrote it in a book its true? Oh brother. The Bible, a real "fact" source there.

man, hit the road

[Man of Steel]

I'm done for today.....thx for discussion.

[Simple Simon]

I'm done for today.....thx for discussion.

Guys forgive him for he knows not what he does.