Author Topic: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?  (Read 17257 times)

TerminalPower

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Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« on: October 08, 2008, 07:15:46 PM »
Perhaps a bit of all three.

Part 1 - Obama's Ties to Socialism, Marxism, and Communism

1. Obama's Father Wrote About Socialism - His father wrote a paper called "Problems With Our Socialism" that advocates 100% taxation of the rich, communal ownership of land and the forced confiscation of privately controlled land. Source: Greg Ransom, PrestoPundit

2. Obama's Mother Was a "Communist Sympathizer" - " Friends describe her as a "fellow traveler", that is, a communist sympathizer, from her youth, according to a March 27, 2007, Chicago Tribune report" Source: Spengler, Asia Times "The values she taught me continue to be my touchstone when it comes to how I go about the world of politics - Barack Obama" Source: Tim Jones, Chicago Tribune

3. Obama's Parents Met in a Russian Class (Back then it was the Communist USSR) - "His mother, Stanley Ann Dunham (her father always wanted a son), was white and just 18 when they met in a Russian class" Source: Sharon Cohen, St Louis Times

4. Obama's Teen Mentor was Frank Marshall Davis (a known CPUSA member) - "...through Frank Marshall Davis, Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his poetry and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just Frank." Source: Cliff Kincaid, Accuracy in the Media "Kathryn Takara of the University of Hawaii, who wrote a dissertation on the life of Frank Marshall Davis, confirming Davis was a significant influence on Obama when the senator attended Punahou prep school in Hawaii from 1975 to 1979" Source: Jim Corsi, WorldNetDaily based on Communism in Hawaii and the Obama Connection (Cliff Kincaid and Herbert Romerstein)

5. Obama's Brother Roy and Cousin Odinga are Marxists - "Barack Obama's older brother, Abongo "Roy" Obama. He is a Luo activist. militant Muslim and a Marxist." Source: Barbara Busby, 180people.com “The person who made me proudest of all,” Obama wrote, “was Roy Source: Bill Sammon, The Examiner "Odinga is a Marxist who reportedly has made a pact with a hard-line Islamic group in Kenya to establish Shariah courts throughout the country" Source: Invenstor's Business Daily

6. Obama Attended Socialist Conferences at Cooper Union - "He went to socialist conferences at Cooper Union and African cultural fairs in Brooklyn and started lecturing his relatives until they worried he'd become "one of those freaks you see on the streets around here." Source: H Kennedy, NY Daily News

7. Obama Was Hand Picked by Alice Palmer to Succeed Her in the Illinois State Senate - "Nine years before Palmer picked Obama to be her successor, she was the only African-American journalist to travel to the Soviet Union to attend the 27th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, according to an article Palmer wrote in the CPUSA newspaper, People's Daily World, June 19, 1986." Source: Jim Corsi, WorldNetDaily based on Communism in Chicago and the Obama Connection (Cliff Kincaid and Herbert Romerstein)

8. Obama's Run for the Illinois State Senate was Launched by a Fundraiser Organized at Bill Ayers' and Bernardine Dorhn's Chicago Home - Ayers and Dorhn are former terrorists from the Weather Underground who's SDS organization received financial contributions from the CPUSA. "Obama's run for the Illinois state Senate was launched by a fundraiser organized at Ayers' and Dorhn's Chicago home by Alice Palmer. Palmer had named Obama to succeed her in the state Senate in 1995, when she decided to run for a U.S. congressional seat." Source: Jim Corsi, WorldNetDaily based on Communism in Chicago and the Obama Connection (Cliff Kincaid and Herbert Romerstein)




9. Obama Had a Close Relationship with the "Anti-Capitalist" Group ACORN - "Obama has had an intimate and long-term association with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (Acorn)...Chicago Acorn appears to have played a major role in Obama’s political advance...Acorn’s radical agenda sometimes shifts toward “undisguised authoritarian socialism.” Source: Stanley Kurtz, National Review

10. Obama Attended Several Meetings with the Democratic Socialists in Chicago and Was even Endorsed by Them - "Obama’s socialist backing goes back at least to 1996, when he received the endorsement of the Chicago branch of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for an Illinois state senate seat. Later, the Chicago DSA newsletter reported that Obama, as a state senator, showed up to eulogize Saul Mendelson, one of the “champions” of “Chicago’s democratic left” and a long-time socialist activist. Obama’s stint as a “community organizer” in Chicago has gotten some attention, but his relationship with the DSA socialists, who groomed and backed him, has been generally ignored." Source: Cliff Kincaid, Accuracy in the Media "In its broadest sense, democratic socialism could refer to any attempts to bring about socialism through democratic means as opposed to violent insurrection." Source: Wikipedia

11. Obama Endorsed Openly Socialist Senator Bernie Sanders - Video " "Sanders is the first self-described socialist to be elected to the U.S. Senate." Source: Wikipedia

12. Many Obama Supporters Idolize Che Guervara - Obama Campaign Worker Seen With Communist Cuba Flag Depicting Marxist Che Guevara on it. Source: David Benzion, Lone Star Times


"Guevara later served as Minister of Industries, in which post he helped formulate Cuban socialism...Guevara played a key role in bringing to Cuba the Soviet nuclear-armed ballistic missiles that precipitated the Cuban Missile Crisis in October 1962. During an interview with the British newspaper Daily Worker some weeks later, he stated that, if the missiles had been under Cuban control, they would have fired them against major U.S. cities." Source: Wikipedia

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Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2008, 07:20:49 PM »
I love your posts dude.  Unfortunately I give you another year before you realize most of the idiots on getbig are lefty's with less knowledge of politics than your average koala and they don't listen to facts and reason.

TerminalPower

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2008, 07:24:38 PM »
I love your posts dude.  Unfortunately I give you another year before you realize most of the idiots on getbig are lefty's with less knowledge of politics than your average koala and they don't listen to facts and reason.

I post for those who cherish freedom, love America, aren't terrorist sympathizers, and desire truth.

Thanks Bro!
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Decker

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2008, 07:04:31 AM »
Which part(s) of Obama's political platform is socialist?

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2008, 07:07:25 AM »
Which part(s) of Obama's political platform is socialist?

Punishing people for making money, discouraging success in general, wealth redistribution, increased subsidies and hand-outs, and gov't expansion.

But since you're of the same ilk I don't expect you to admit the same.


Neurotoxin

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2008, 07:23:22 AM »

Socialism: A political theory advocating state ownership of industry.
An economic system based on state ownership of capital. All communists are socialists.

GBers, under George W Bush the government has now taken ownership of the mortgage industry, insurance industry and banking industry.

Nuff said.


NT


10/09 WASHINGTON - The Bush administration is considering taking ownership stakes in a number of U.S. banks as one option it might use to deal with a serious credit crisis, an administration official said Thursday.


Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2008, 07:58:43 AM »


Bad move on Bush's part.  I completely disagree with taxpayers bailing out a failing industry and funding the elements of gov't that caused it to happen.

And you think electing a socialist like Obama will help?  I think not.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2008, 09:10:04 AM »
Which part(s) of Obama's political platform is socialist?

Where do you want me to begin?

Neurotoxin

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2008, 09:50:39 AM »
Bad move on Bush's part.  I completely disagree with taxpayers bailing out a failing industry and funding the elements of gov't that caused it to happen.

And you think electing a socialist like Obama will help?  I think not.


George W Bush = no bigger Socialist in the history of America.


Banking system = socialized under Bush

Insurance industry = socialized under Bush

Mortgage industry = socialized under Bush


and you're pointing fingers at Obama ?  ::)

amazing.....


NT

Soul Crusher

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2008, 10:08:09 AM »

George W Bush = no bigger Socialist in the history of America.


Banking system = socialized under Bush

Insurance industry = socialized under Bush

Mortgage industry = socialized under Bush


and you're pointing fingers at Obama ?  ::)

amazing.....


NT


No one is defending Bush.  He sucks. 

Obama, however, well this is a whole new level of disaster.

Straw Man

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2008, 10:10:44 AM »
Obama is a Democrat

The Luke

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2008, 10:43:43 AM »
In the aftermath of World War Two, America stood alone as the worlds sole superpower and the worlds preeminent economic power.

In the last sixty years, America has been overtaken by a plethora of newly developed countries (ie: countries that have developed since WW2). All of these countries overtaking the US have done so by adopting socialist policies and strict regulation of the capitalist factors of their economies.

Don't take my word for it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

UN Human Development Index (data from 2005, published in 2007)
1*     Iceland ...becoming more socialist all the time
2*      Norway ...the MOST socialist country in the world
3*     Australia ...formerly a penal colony
4*      Canada ...formerly part of the British monarchy
5*      Ireland ...where I live, only an independent state since 1922 and chronically socialist
6*      Sweden ...chronically socialist
7*     Switzerland
8*      Japan ...nuked and bombed to shit during WW2, bounced back by dumping the Emperor for socialism
9*     Netherlands
10*      France ...chronically, fervently socialist and the butt of Republican jokes
11*      Finland ...chronically socialist
12      United States ...Go "Fuck-You" Capitalism!
13*      Spain ...formerly a dictatorship under Franco
14*      Denmark
15*      Austria
16*      United Kingdom ....a monarchy in name only, now a socialist parliamentary state
17*      Belgium ...formerly a monarchy
18*      Luxembourg
19*      New Zealand
20*      Italy ...formerly fascist under Mussolini, bounced back through socialism

...in the top twenty, the COUNTRY (not countries, but country... singular!) that isn't socialist is the United States.

Twelve SOCIALIST countries have overtaken the US since the end of WW2, is it any wonder that they are also some of the most socialist countries out there?

How are socialist countries living better than Americans with only a fraction of America's GDP?

How would the French do with America's GDP?

More importantly, who convinced Americans that socialism was something to be avoided? (FOX News?)



The Luke

Decker

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2008, 10:48:07 AM »
Punishing people for making money, discouraging success in general, wealth redistribution, increased subsidies and hand-outs, and gov't expansion.

But since you're of the same ilk I don't expect you to admit the same.


Taxation is not socialism. 

All Governments redistribute 'wealth'.  That's not socialism,

Increased subsidies and handouts?  Increased?  Increased over what?...Bush's record setting drunken sailor spending?

Do you know how much money Obama will save this country by disposing of the Iraq mistake?

Decker

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2008, 11:05:10 AM »
No one is defending Bush.  He sucks. 

Obama, however, well this is a whole new level of disaster.
NT pointed out what socialism looks like...Bush is full of it.

Where's the Socialism with Obama?  His UHC plan works with the existing private insurers.  That's not socialism.

Option D

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2008, 11:41:06 AM »
DEMOCRAT

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2008, 12:46:22 PM »
Wow.. call Obama out on being extreme left and watch all the liberal venom come out and falsely attack...   BUSH!!!!!


What a surprise ::)


Liberal democrats have stood in the way of every principle of capitalism for the last 30 years.  No wonder we're falling behind. 

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2008, 12:49:52 PM »
Taxation is not socialism. 

All Governments redistribute 'wealth'.  That's not socialism,

Increased subsidies and handouts?  Increased?  Increased over what?...Bush's record setting drunken sailor spending?

Do you know how much money Obama will save this country by disposing of the Iraq mistake?

Gimmie a break..  Excessive taxation for redistribution is socialism.  Obama will not SAVE any money.  Whatever money comes from ending the majority of defense spending will be used for his own SOCIALIST agenda.

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2008, 12:51:50 PM »

Where's the Socialism with Obama? 

ah HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hahahahaah....lol  "good one" ;D

w8tlftr

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2008, 01:08:06 PM »

George W Bush = no bigger Socialist in the history of America.


Banking system = socialized under Bush

Insurance industry = socialized under Bush

Mortgage industry = socialized under Bush


and you're pointing fingers at Obama ?  ::)

amazing.....


NT


I think we can ALL agree that Bush is no conservative.


Decker

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2008, 01:18:20 PM »
Gimmie a break..  Excessive taxation for redistribution is socialism.  Obama will not SAVE any money.  Whatever money comes from ending the majority of defense spending will be used for his own SOCIALIST agenda.
Is excessive borrowing for redistribution socialism?  Big Mac thinks that's a great idea.

Taxation is not socialism.

All governments (even democratic republics) are redistributive.

Socialism =  the people owning the means of production.  Or as NT pointed out, the gov (We the People) owning private enterprise--the bailouts/

You shout "SOCIALISM" and "OBAMA" and it has no meat on the bone.  "Obama's a socialist...well, gee, just b/c he is!"  That might fly at repub. rallies but not in the real world.

Obama will start paying the nation's bills that Big Mac/Bush have been deferring with the help of Red China.

Borrow and spend is a much worse proposition than tax and spend.

Do you really believe that McCain's economic plan (deep tax cuts) is going to help?
http://www.johnmccain.com/Images/Issues/JobsforAmerica/briefing.pdf

McCain's plan could work if:  Taxes run economic performance (they don't); he can control spending (he won't); debt doesn't matter anymore (it does).

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2008, 01:47:21 PM »
Is excessive borrowing for redistribution socialism?  Big Mac thinks that's a great idea.

Taxation is not socialism.

All governments (even democratic republics) are redistributive.

Socialism =  the people owning the means of production.  Or as NT pointed out, the gov (We the People) owning private enterprise--the bailouts/

You shout "SOCIALISM" and "OBAMA" and it has no meat on the bone.  "Obama's a socialist...well, gee, just b/c he is!"  That might fly at repub. rallies but not in the real world.

Obama will start paying the nation's bills that Big Mac/Bush have been deferring with the help of Red China.

Borrow and spend is a much worse proposition than tax and spend.

Do you really believe that McCain's economic plan (deep tax cuts) is going to help?
http://www.johnmccain.com/Images/Issues/JobsforAmerica/briefing.pdf

McCain's plan could work if:  Taxes run economic performance (they don't); he can control spending (he won't); debt doesn't matter anymore (it does).

Re-read my post.  Excessive taxation is socialism.  This holds especially true when the money goes to benefit more of those could contribute less, which is yet another Obama platform.  All governments may practice a form of redistribution but it is the EXTENT to which it is practiced that makes it a positive or negative policy.  Obama seeks to increase that even further along with growing an already wasteful and bureaucratic government.

Obama is not a socialist "because I said so."  He is because of his voting record and his statements along with those of his campaign.  Are you so far removed from reality as to not see that?  Oh wait... I forgot.  You are ALSO a socialist lib.  My bad. :-P 

Cutting taxes has spurred growth and prosperity time after time yet you're so up your own ass with liberalism you won't be honest enough with yourself you admit it.  That may fly at a flag burning but not in the REAL world where REAL Americans support free market capitalism, lower taxes, smaller gov't, and overall individual freedom to decide where our own money should be spent. ;D

Decker

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2008, 02:09:08 PM »
Re-read my post.  Excessive taxation is socialism.  This holds especially true when the money goes to benefit more of those could contribute less, which is yet another Obama platform.  All governments may practice a form of redistribution but it is the EXTENT to which it is practiced that makes it a positive or negative policy.  Obama seeks to increase that even further along with growing an already wasteful and bureaucratic government.
Socialism is people/gov. owning the means of production. 

HIgh taxation is high taxation.  It's not socialism.

You don't know what socialism is.

Quote
Obama is not a socialist "because I said so."  He is because of his voting record and his statements along with those of his campaign.  Are you so far removed from reality as to not see that?  Oh wait... I forgot.  You are ALSO a socialist lib.  My bad. :-P 
Again, it's not socialism just b/c you say so.  I am a socialist liberal.  You obviously have a problem with that.

Quote
Cutting taxes has spurred growth and prosperity time after time yet you're so up your own ass with liberalism you won't be honest enough with yourself you admit it.
Bull plop.  Reagan cut taxes....and he raised them 7 times in 8 years including the largest tax increase in history. 

Tax cuts do not govern a country's economic performance.

Tax cuts are a type of Keynesian spending without direction or object.  Here's money everyone, do with it whatever you want!  The rich hoard and the poor spend.

Tax cuts are a redistribution of wealth.  Is that socialism? 

Tax cuts generally spur some sort of economic growth but the gov. is left in debt b/c the tax cuts do not pay for themselves.

Quote
That may fly at a flag burning but not in the REAL world where REAL Americans support free market capitalism, lower taxes, smaller gov't, and overall individual freedom to decide where our own money should be spent. ;D
Free market capitalism exists for the low and middle class.  The rich live in a socialist dream where costs are subsidized and profits privatized.  Small government?  That's never going to happen.  That's an anachronistic dream from colonial times.  Let it go already.  And low taxes only happen if economic happenstance and some degree responsiblity are part of the equation:  Republicans are the most irresponsible lot I've seen in some time.  You're part of the same group that thinks, "paying taxes is not patriotic" and to me those are the words of someone looking for a free ride. Why?  B/c america's the best country on the planet....I just won't support it with my money!  SElfish.

The Luke

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2008, 02:17:30 PM »
Cutting taxes has spurred growth and prosperity time after time yet you're so up your own ass with liberalism you won't be honest enough with yourself you admit it. 

...any evidence for this?

Reagan cut taxes (for the rich)... that effectively destroyed Americas unions and manufacturing base, which in turn led to massive unemployment.

George H Bush... "Read my lips, NO MORE TAXES!" well he did somewhat raise taxes, but he cut them for the rich and unemployment was the result.

Bill Clinton... raised taxes and introduced socialist policies. "Big Government" and "tax 'n spend" policies led to the record employment; a balanced budget and a hefty surplus. Neither Reagan, nor Bush Sr, nor Dubya managed to produce a surplus with their "fiscal conservatism"... instead they produced massive deficits.

George W Bush... Google the word "failure"


Look at my first post in this thread (further up the page), socialism works... republican policies don't.



The Luke

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2008, 02:22:00 PM »
Socialism is people/gov. owning the means of production. 

HIgh taxation is high taxation.  It's not socialism.

You don't know what socialism is.
 Again, it's not socialism just b/c you say so.  I am a socialist liberal.  You obviously have a problem with that.
Bull plop.  Reagan cut taxes....and he raised them 7 times in 8 years including the largest tax increase in history. 

Tax cuts do not govern a country's economic performance.

Tax cuts are a type of Keynesian spending without direction or object.  Here's money everyone, do with it whatever you want!  The rich hoard and the poor spend.

Tax cuts are a redistribution of wealth.  Is that socialism? 

Tax cuts generally spur some sort of economic growth but the gov. is left in debt b/c the tax cuts do not pay for themselves.
Free market capitalism exists for the low and middle class.  The rich live in a socialist dream where costs are subsidized and profits privatized.  Small government?  That's never going to happen.  That's an anachronistic dream from colonial times.  Let it go already.  And low taxes only happen if economic happenstance and some degree responsiblity are part of the equation:  Republicans are the most irresponsible lot I've seen in some time.  You're part of the same group that thinks, "paying taxes is not patriotic" and to me those are the words of someone looking for a free ride. Why?  B/c america's the best country on the planet....I just won't support it with my money!  SElfish.

I wasn't defining socialism.  I was ascribing the attribute that socialism and higher taxes go hand-in-hand.  

The rich don't "hoard", they make sound economic decisions while the poor make POOR economic decisions.  Tax cuts are not a redistribution.  They are people keeping more of the money they earn.  Only someone with such a skewed and backwards view of economics could believe the nonsense coming out of you.

Tax cuts have benefited the US economy EVERY TIME.  Gov't spending ALSO has to be lessened or controlled so as to facilitate the cuts.  Neither Obama and McCain are great candidates to support that but given the choice I would rather not vote for the man guaranteed to up spending, raise taxes, and expand.  McCain, at least, MIGHT do something about it.  Obama sits there and convinces the retards who support him that he will cut taxes for the middle class.  It's a falsehood.  Everything Obama will do with raise costs of living and inflation and the tax structure will only serve to keep the middle class from moving upwards.  Capital gains alone is hugely destructive and will be much worse under Obama.

America is best country on the planet because the working populace still has some degree of control and freedom to choose where our money goes.  Obama and those like yourself seek to ruin that and make those decisions for us.  That's not freedom.

The Luke

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Re: Is Obama a Marxist, Communist, or Socialist?
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2008, 02:32:52 PM »
Tax cuts have benefited the US economy EVERY TIME.  


...can you illustrate this point with an example? (see my previous post)


The Luke