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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Wrestling Board => Topic started by: Karl Kox on January 13, 2014, 06:44:02 PM
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Thoughts.
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Disgusted, exemplifies everything that is wrong with this HOF
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Overdue.
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Thoughts.
Long overdue. He left his mark in the WWE and was a huge fan favorite back in the day despite his controversy with Vince.
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Long overdue. He left his mark in the WWE and was a huge fan favorite back in the day despite his controversy with Vince.
Dude brought it back in the day and looked the part to boot.
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was he Australian? Im not a fan of WWE but I have known Karl Kox to be a getbig legend.
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Disgusted, exemplifies everything that is wrong with this HOF
After Drew Carey and Koko B. Ware, I don't care who they put it.
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Overdue.
Agreed.
Whether you like him or not. You must admit that he was one of the biggest draws at the time. And that's what it's all about.
It's a business and if you can leave a legacy at all. It's something.
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Didn't care for him, thought his entire gimmick was just stupid. The costume, the streamers, the psuedo intellect ramblings and howlings, the weak ass move set....
but he did get Hogan to lay down clean for him. That says something.
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Didn't care for him, thought his entire gimmick was just stupid. The costume, the streamers, the psuedo intellect ramblings and howlings, the weak ass move set....
but he did get Hogan to lay down clean for him. That says something.
VINCE got Hogan to take that dive.
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VINCE got Hogan to take that dive.
Bullseye.
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Bullseye.
It's been said that he practically dared Hogan to do it. I think that, even then, Hogan saw what Hellwig was and knew it wouldn't last long. Hulk knew he'd be back in the driver's seat before long.
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It's been said that he practically dared Hogan to do it. I think that, even then, Hogan saw what Hellwig was and knew it wouldn't last long. Hulk knew he'd be back in the driver's seat before long.
Matter of fact thats exactly what he said in the Self Destruction dvd and I believe it.
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Matter of fact thats exactly what he said in the Self Destruction dvd and I believe it.
Who, Hogan?
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Who, Hogan?
Yes sir
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Yes sir
Okay. I want to say I heard it from Bret. It sounds pretty accurate.
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Okay. I want to say I heard it from Bret. It sounds pretty accurate.
When u hear the same or close to stories from different wrestlers on different shoot interviews there has to be some truth to it.
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When u hear the same or close to stories from different wrestlers on different shoot interviews there has to be some truth to it.
My sentiments exactly.
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Work rate wise, Warrior is one of the LAST people who belong in a HOF. However, he was a HUGE draw and that makes sense enough to induct him in.
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Work rate wise, Warrior is one of the LAST people who belong in a HOF. However, he was a HUGE draw and that makes sense enough to induct him in.
I know that not everyone subscribes to the "asses-in-seats" standard.
I certainly do.
In my mind, there's ring work, mic work, and "popularity" work. If you're in the most demand of the fans, then you're doing something better than everybody else in that locker room. Smarks will argue til blue in the face that HBK was the best worker, while a promoter will tell you that Hogan was a better worker because he drew much better business (WWF's bleakest financial years were when Shawn was in the driver's seat).
It's two different perspectives. I don't think that one carries more weight than the other, and I don't think that either should be neglected.
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I know that not everyone subscribes to the "asses-in-seats" standard.
I certainly do.
In my mind, there's ring work, mic work, and "popularity" work. If you're in the most demand of the fans, then you're doing something better than everybody else in that locker room. Smarks will argue til blue in the face that HBK was the best worker, while a promoter will tell you that Hogan was a better worker because he drew much better business (WWF's bleakest financial years were when Shawn was in the driver's seat).
It's two different perspectives. I don't think that one carries more weight than the other, and I don't think that either should be neglected.
Business is business.
I don't know if you can blame Shawn Michaels for the dip... Those were the Monday Night Rating Wars after all... WCW had some big pockets and a great angle at the time.
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Business is business.
I don't know if you can blame Shawn Michaels for the dip... Those were the Monday Night Rating Wars after all... WCW had some big pockets and a great angle at the time.
No, I was referring to his first title run: what was that, WM XI or so? The one at which he made Jose Lothario leave the ring after beating Bret in the Iron Man match.
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No, I was referring to his first title run: what was that, WM XI or so? The one at which he made Jose Lothario leave the ring after beating Bret in the Iron Man match.
I thought it was around 96.
Not that I know any better than anyone else.
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I think its great and long overdue
but then, when I was 12, my whole life was Hulk and Warrior lol
I was at skydome for WM6.
ask 100 people on the street who Ultimate Warrior was and I bet most of them know.
ask them who john cena is and I bet not nearly as many will even know who the fuck the guy is LOL
says something
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I thought it was around 96.
Not that I know any better than anyone else.
No, you're right about the date. Technically, the "wars" ran from about 1995 (Nitro's debut) - WCW's sale, and Shawn got the belt in '96.
But, the hot angles you mentioned, like the nWo, etc. didn't happen until Shawn's second title run with D-X. To be fair, I don't know that the numbers under Bret and Taker were all that better leading up to Shawn's disappointing run. Business drastically improved for both companies with the Attitude boom.
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Work rate wise, Warrior is one of the LAST people who belong in a HOF. However, he was a HUGE draw and that makes sense enough to induct him in.
Warrior was over but he just could not carry the ball and ratings dropped which is exactly why they put the title back on hogan.
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Warrior was over but he just could not carry the ball and ratings dropped which is exactly why they put the title back on hogan.
Had Ultimate Jimmy just been willing to learn and improve, he may have lasted longer - and even taken over the company from Hogan. But, he thought he was already the best and perfect, so he made no effort, remained one-dimensional, and fizzled out fast.
Piss on him.
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Had Ultimate Jimmy just been willing to learn and improve, he may have lasted longer - and even taken over the company from Hogan. But, he thought he was already the best and perfect, so he made no effort, remained one-dimensional, and fizzled out fast.
Piss on him.
lol..yes...the one thing I do like about warrior is that he is one of very very few who wasnt taken by vince and banged vince out of money.Vince deserved it after he raided the territories.
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I have said it before and I will say it again:
the ratings dropped because when warrior became champion he went from exciting feuds as IC champ to a crappy program with rude (whom he already destroyed) and then entered a million 6 man tag matches with LOD and Demoltion.
thats it
the booking of his matches/opponents as world champ sucked.
4 months of tag matches?
of course the fans wouldn't care.
they should have had him continue his feud with Hogan or at least put him up against some one, you know, NEW.
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I have said it before and I will say it again:
the ratings dropped because when warrior became champion he went from exciting feuds as IC champ to a crappy program with rude (whom he already destroyed) and then entered a million 6 man tag matches with LOD and Demoltion.
thats it
the booking of his matches/opponents as world champ sucked.
4 months of tag matches?
of course the fans wouldn't care.
they should have had him continue his feud with Hogan or at least put him up against some one, you know, NEW.
True, but like Hogan, there was only so much you could do with him.
They fed Hogan one heel after another, and there was seldom a part II to those feuds. Eventually, you run out of top caliber challengers. Champions like Flair could revisit feuds over and over. Hulk and Jim were locked into a dreaded paradigm - and not entirely through their own fault.
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I have said it before and I will say it again:
the ratings dropped because when warrior became champion he went from exciting feuds as IC champ to a crappy program with rude (whom he already destroyed) and then entered a million 6 man tag matches with LOD and Demoltion.
thats it
the booking of his matches/opponents as world champ sucked.
4 months of tag matches?
of course the fans wouldn't care.
they should have had him continue his feud with Hogan or at least put him up against some one, you know, NEW.
Sorry but no way Warrior drew. Warrior was good...but not that good. He simply couldn't put butts in seats.
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Sorry but no way Warrior drew. Warrior was good...but not that good. He simply couldn't put butts in seats.
Bro, we were crushed at work! I'll look over what you sent me this weekend. I'm working OT tomorrow, but I'll get to it eventually.
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Bro, we were crushed at work! I'll look over what you sent me this weekend. I'm working OT tomorrow, but I'll get to it eventually.
gotcha. Read the Benoit article. A good read..
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Sorry but no way Warrior drew. Warrior was good...but not that good. He simply couldn't put butts in seats.
not at all and even the degrogatory WWE DVD admits warrior was 'drawing well'
as world champ (Sgt. Slaughter says this). at least until he started the 4 months of tag matches with LOD.
in my area, he would often main event house shows and the events sold well.
I saw him face andre in a cage, a tag match with kerry von erich vs rude and mr perfect etc. etc.
warrior failed because of the booking. the man connected with the fans like no one other than Hogan.
watch any warrior match from 1989 and see. it was insane how over he was.
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I think the only 2 times i ever marked for him was when he beat Rude in the steel cage match and when he returned at WM8. Hell i still watch that entrance and react the same way i did as a kid ha ha. He drew better than some would give him credit for, but not as well as the company had hoped. Excellent analysis regarding the booking, it killed him quicker than his 1 dimensional approach to wrestling.
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Long overdue. He left his mark in the WWE and was a huge fan favorite back in the day despite his controversy with Vince.
i always wondered if the thought crossed VKM's mind to paint up kerry von erich to take the warrior's place the night hellwig took the wwe hostage at summer slam. after all he dressed up a guy and tried to palm him offf as jimmy sf snuka, and who can forget the diesel razor ramon caper.
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;D
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For all Chris was, Fritz would have probably been better off just masturbating that night. The Danny de Vito to Kerry's Arnold.
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I know that not everyone subscribes to the "asses-in-seats" standard.
I certainly do.
In my mind, there's ring work, mic work, and "popularity" work. If you're in the most demand of the fans, then you're doing something better than everybody else in that locker room. Smarks will argue til blue in the face that HBK was the best worker, while a promoter will tell you that Hogan was a better worker because he drew much better business (WWF's bleakest financial years were when Shawn was in the driver's seat).
It's two different perspectives. I don't think that one carries more weight than the other, and I don't think that either should be neglected.
Those years were bleak in great part to the mass exodus to WCW.
The irony was that those parodies of "Billionaire Ted" wanting all those 'New Generation" WWF superstars proved prophetic. He actually got them, lots of them.
- Razor Ramon
- Diesel
- Dibiase
- 1-2-3 Kid
- Ultimate Warrior (got fired)
- Mr. Perfect
And who did WWF get?
- (The man they call) Vader
- "Wildman" Marc Mero
- Faarooq Asaad
- Psycho Sid (to replace Warrior)
- Rocky Maivia
- Mankind
- Doug Furnas & Phil Lafon
- "Razor Ramon"
- "Diesel"
Boy did McMahon get the short end of the deal there.
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For all Chris was, Fritz would have probably been better off just masturbating that night. The Danny de Vito to Kerry's Arnold.
I listened to a recent Kevin von Erich interview where he raved about how "explosive" Chris Von Erich was and I almost choked on my food in disbelief.
Kevin is still workin most interviews to this very day.
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Those years were bleak in great part to the mass exodus to WCW.
The irony was that those parodies of "Billionaire Ted" wanting all those 'New Generation" WWF superstars proved prophetic. He actually got them, lots of them.
- Razor Ramon
- Diesel
- Dibiase
- 1-2-3 Kid
- Ultimate Warrior (got fired)
- Mr. Perfect
And who did WWF get?
- (The man they call) Vader
- "Wildman" Marc Mero
- Faarooq Asaad
- Psycho Sid (to replace Warrior)
- Rocky Maivia
- Mankind
- Doug Furnas & Phil Lafon
- "Razor Ramon"
- "Diesel"
Boy did McMahon get the short end of the deal there.
Nash & Hall became game changers back in WCW, Syxx was irrelevant wherever he went, Dibiase was finished long before he left, Warrior did fuck all and Hennig was horrifically misused much like most of the WCW talent.
Sid was ok back in those days, Vader was buried, Mero had next to no impact for me, Farooq was an important cog in building WWF back up as leader of the Nation, Mankind overachieved considerably and Rock changed the game with Austin.
WCW should have been the ones to buy out Vince but they managed to completely bollox up the leverage they had and had nobody but themselves to blame.
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Nash & Hall became game changers back in WCW, Syxx was irrelevant wherever he went, Dibiase was finished long before he left, Warrior did fuck all and Hennig was horrifically misused much like most of the WCW talent.
Sid was ok back in those days, Vader was buried, Mero had next to no impact for me, Farooq was an important cog in building WWF back up as leader of the Nation, Mankind overachieved considerably and Rock changed the game with Austin.
WCW should have been the ones to buy out Vince but they managed to completely bollox up the leverage they had and had nobody but themselves to blame.
Everybody bitches about WCW's misuse of Bret, but I consider what they did with Hennig to be a far bigger shame.
Bischoff apparently had some big plans for Hellwig but of course those never saw the light of day. He wanted to to update Jim's look with silver and black gear and face paint. It would have been interesting. I think eric had some very good ideas. Turner's company tanked because there were too many people put in charge of things they had no business running.
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Hennigs greatest achievement in WCW was applying the PP to The Giant. A singing cowboy with Virgil FFS?! Damned shame, fuck you Ted Turner and everything you have helped to create.
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Hennigs greatest achievement in WCW was applying the PP to The Giant. A singing cowboy with Virgil FFS?! Damned shame, fuck you Ted Turner and everything you have helped to create.
Curt hit the plex on Big Show a couple of times in the Fed, too. In my book, he was the best all around performer ever in the business.
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Curt hit the plex on Big Show a couple of times in the Fed, too. In my book, he was the best all around performer ever in the business.
WCW had such good talent...sad shit. Creative control killed it all. Poor booking and bullshit.
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Everybody bitches about WCW's misuse of Bret, but I consider what they did with Hennig to be a far bigger shame.
Bischoff apparently had some big plans for Hellwig but of course those never saw the light of day. He wanted to to update Jim's look with silver and black gear and face paint. It would have been interesting. I think eric had some very good ideas. Turner's company tanked because there were too many people put in charge of things they had no business running.
You hit the nail on the head.
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I listened to a recent Kevin von Erich interview where he raved about how "explosive" Chris Von Erich was and I almost choked on my food in disbelief.
Kevin is still workin most interviews to this very day.
He seems to be ALL about the business, as the last of their dynasty he wont undersell anything the VE's ever did. Admirable trait in this day in age.
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not at all and even the degrogatory WWE DVD admits warrior was 'drawing well'
as world champ (Sgt. Slaughter says this). at least until he started the 4 months of tag matches with LOD.
in my area, he would often main event house shows and the events sold well.
I saw him face andre in a cage, a tag match with kerry von erich vs rude and mr perfect etc. etc.
warrior failed because of the booking. the man connected with the fans like no one other than Hogan.
watch any warrior match from 1989 and see. it was insane how over he was.
oh I agree..he was crazy over and one of the best builds in the business. His gym commitments are amazing.
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not at all and even the degrogatory WWE DVD admits warrior was 'drawing well'
as world champ (Sgt. Slaughter says this). at least until he started the 4 months of tag matches with LOD.
in my area, he would often main event house shows and the events sold well.
I saw him face andre in a cage, a tag match with kerry von erich vs rude and mr perfect etc. etc.
warrior failed because of the booking. the man connected with the fans like no one other than Hogan.
watch any warrior match from 1989 and see. it was insane how over he was.
What I remember killing Warrior's momentum back in the day was the booking as well. After he won the title, he was booked EXACTLY like Hogan; show some power moves in the beginning, then get beat nearly to death, only to hulk up and crush his opponent at the end. As IC champ, he DESTROYED everyone they put in the ring with him, with guys like Rude selling him to the end of time. First match of Warrior's I remember as WWF Champ was on SNME against DiBiase, if I recall correctly. Dibiase controlled the whole match, and I thought, "what's going on!?" He also stopped using the press slam, changing his end move to the flying shoulder tackle, which was cool, but not as cool as the press slam. Basically, IMO, they neutered the character after he won the strap. Savage made him look good in their feud, though.
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What I remember killing Warrior's momentum back in the day was the booking as well. After he won the title, he was booked EXACTLY like Hogan; show some power moves in the beginning, then get beat nearly to death, only to hulk up and crush his opponent at the end. As IC champ, he DESTROYED everyone they put in the ring with him, with guys like Rude selling him to the end of time. First match of Warrior's I remember as WWF Champ was on SNME against DiBiase, if I recall correctly. Dibiase controlled the whole match, and I thought, "what's going on!?" He also stopped using the press slam, changing his end move to the flying shoulder tackle, which was cool, but not as cool as the press slam. Basically, IMO, they neutered the character after he won the strap. Savage made him look good in their feud, though.
agreed. instead of three punches big boot legdrop ala Hogan
it became clothesline x3, flying tackle and big splash.
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the dibiase match from SME is intersting because Warrior actually uses a more technical moveset: a sunset flip etc.
great match. ill see if I can find it on youtube.
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[ Invalid YouTube link ]
great match although the haters will of course say it was only good because dibiase 'carried' Warrior ::)
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I'm hearing reports that the office is discussing having Hogan induct Jim into the HOF.
Who else has Terry inducted?
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I'm hearing reports that the office is discussing having Hogan induct Jim into the HOF.
Who else has Terry inducted?
I really cant see Warrior letting that happen. Especially after the Karm Collects shoot he did against Hogan.
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I really cant see Warrior letting that happen. Especially after the Karm Collects shoot he did against Hogan.
Money talks, brother.
After Bruno, I honestly believe anything is possible.
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Money talks, brother.
After Bruno, I honestly believe anything is possible.
U think Warrior would actually allow Hogan of all people to induct him?
U are right about Bruno.
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U think Warrior would actually allow Hogan of all people to induct him?
U are right about Bruno.
I never thought he would ever do business with "evil Titan" again.
I mean it: nothing surprises me now. Bruno, Bret, Piper, Hogan...
Honestly, I'm fully expecting Martha Hart to become the next sellout.
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I never thought he would ever do business with "evil Titan" again.
I mean it: nothing surprises me now. Bruno, Bret, Piper, Hogan...
Honestly, I'm fully expecting Martha Hart to become the next sellout.
Actually, "sellout" is not the right word. I don't hold the decisions against any of the above names. It's all their business and their right. And, if they believe that whatever deal they reach is adequate compensation, then that's their prerogative.
I guess by sellout, I mean a former outspoken opponent of Vince who changes their tune based on a mutually beneficial agreement between the two parties. Again, it's not meant as a derogatory term.
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Actually, "sellout" is not the right word. I don't hold the decisions against any of the above names. It's all their business and their right. And, if they believe that whatever deal they reach is adequate compensation, then that's their prerogative.
I guess by sellout, I mean a former outspoken opponent of Vince who changes their tune based on a mutually beneficial agreement between the two parties. Again, it's not meant as a derogatory term.
Gotcha. Very well put.
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Gotcha. Very well put.
Thanks! I'm glad I made it clear enough for at least one person. I'm sure there's a better word for it, but I'm coming up on 25+ hours of overtime this pay period, and my vocabulary isn't as strong as it often is.
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Remember when Sid was told to be a little more technical and high flying?! Didn't end too well ha ha.
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Remember when Sid was told to be a little more technical and high flying?! Didn't end too well ha ha.
That ranks among the most gruesome injuries sustaind in fake fighting.
Who was it that gave him that "advice?"
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From what i recall it was simply "management" so it could have been anyone - Bischoff & Russo specifically. He was dead against it saying it was unnatural for a guy his size to use a manoeuvre from the top rope etc but they insisted he do it or else. Ive seen that injury so many times in football (soccer) and a few in combat fighting but Sid's always stands out as a horrific occurrence even for me.
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From what i recall it was simply "management" so it could have been anyone - Bischoff & Russo specifically. He was dead against it saying it was unnatural for a guy his size to use a manoeuvre from the top rope etc but they insisted he do it or else. Ive seen that injury so many times in football (soccer) and a few in combat fighting but Sid's always stands out as a horrific occurrence even for me.
Everbody always goes on about Hunter tearing his quad, but Sid's was one of the ugliest injuries I've ever seen in the ring.
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Everbody always goes on about Hunter tearing his quad, but Sid's was one of the ugliest injuries I've ever seen in the ring.
That was grotesque. He has two steel rods holding his shin bone together.
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That was grotesque. He has two steel rods holding his shin bone together.
Poor Sid probably wishes he'd gotten the necrophelia angle, instead.
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Poor Sid probably wishes he'd gotten the necrophelia angle, instead.
Remember when he was so green he almost broke Pilmans neck back in1991in WCW?
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Remember when he was so green he almost broke Pilmans neck back in1991in WCW?
I never knew that!
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I never knew that!
Sid was a horseman. He power bombed Pilman but dumped him on his head/neck. Its on the horseman dvd.
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Sid was a horseman. He power bombed Pilman but dumped him on his head/neck. Its on the horseman dvd.
Damn!
Poor Brian...
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Haha I remember seeing those types of matches promoed as a kid in the waning days of USWA in the Dallas area and thinking it was the coolest concept ever! Of course I was 9 years old ;D
In regards to Jim....I kinda give him the "Sandy Koufax/Jim Brown" analogy. Shorter type career but was just SO "over" (or effective in their regard) that you gotta put him up there with the guys who stuck around and produced for nearly(or over) 2 decades.
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Haha I remember seeing those types of matches promoed as a kid in the waning days of USWA in the Dallas area and thinking it was the coolest concept ever! Of course I was 9 years old ;D
In regards to Jim....I kinda give him the "Sandy Koufax/Jim Brown" analogy. Shorter type career but was just SO "over" (or effective in their regard) that you gotta put him up there with the guys who stuck around and produced for nearly(or over) 2 decades.
I give him shit, but Hellwig deserves a spot for the mark he left. However, he also deserves much of the criticism thrown at him.
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I give him shit, but Hellwig deserves a spot for the mark he left. However, he also deserves much of the criticism thrown at him.
Agreed 100%
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Agreed 100%
Great minds usually do.
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I've always thought of Ultimate Warrior as the best example of a pure "sports entertainer". Zero wrestling and athletic ability but fantastic character and visual presentation. Best physique of any wrestler in my opinion.