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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => History - Stories - and Memories => Topic started by: Figo on July 16, 2007, 11:16:29 AM
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As much as I am a fan of the 70's and 80's physiques, I cant believe people eat this shit up.
A quote from a post on IA re an article on Don Howorth:
"DH: I think what people don't realize is, we made such good gains on such low dosages because we worked our asses off! Today, everybody's relying on the drugs. Put some of these guys today through the ball busting workouts we did and they'd never make it. Personally, I used a fairly large amount of Dianabol -- 5 milligrams a day before the Mr. America contest.
NM: Five milligrams? That's it? That's one pill! Guys today take up to 20 pills a day along with a thousand or so milligrams of injectables.
DH: At one point I used 10 mgs a day but then I started to retain a lot of water. We heard things about it but didn't really know much. Some people said that it didn't increase strength, but that was bull. I took 5 mgs of Dianabol for 4 weeks and my bench press went from up thirty five pounds! I noticed I recovered a lot faster and got great pumps. But I never took any
injectables. I never even knew about them. The only injection I ever had was when I was in the Navy and I didn't like it! (Laughs)"
So, juice was invented and used back in the 40's, everyone used a shitload of the stuff in the 60's & 70's, as it wasnt morally nor legally objectionable, but now that its taboo, everyone was a nattie.
Reeves talked about steroids in an interview in mm where he had just begun training, and someone asked him if he was on juice, he said he thought guy was talking bout orange juice, Scott used 5mgs dbol, Pearl used it for a couple of weeks once, Sergio was already huge and in his prime before he touched the stuff... ::)
Its part of industry, but there are people that believe this crap, and somehow Arnie and Franco and the guys built these amazing physiques completely drug-free. Have they not seen pics of their heroes off the sauce? I'm not trying to belittle the ironage, but they were also humans like todays guys, only reason they didnt look like todays guys, is because they didnt know how to, and that it was possible.
Much like 100m sprints under 10s, no-one knew nor thought it was possible.
My 2 cents.
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it's an unfortunate querk of the sports world. no different than Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire, etc. look at the difference in nba player frames from the 70's to now. these guys are thick and lean on 6'8" frames. yet if someone has a cocaine, heroin or alcohol problem and talk about it, they become a hero or role model. a powerlifter i know just tore his bicep and the doctor was treating him like a scumbag drug addict while a heroin addict with hep c. was being treated like a goddess at the clinic. it's a messed up world out there!
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Unfortunately Iron Age and it's originator Perrine who writes for Flex insist on a sacharine interpretretation of BB. Anything too intensely realistic is frowned upon if not immediately deleted.
Someone claiming to be a writer should be the last to exert such control over opinions but that's the way it works there.
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Here is an interview where Reeves said he never took steroids, although it is well known that he did in fact use them :
http://www.drkrm.com/reeves.html (http://www.drkrm.com/reeves.html)
Its part of industry, but there are people that believe this crap, and somehow Arnie and Franco and the guys built these amazing physiques completely drug-free.
Speaking of Franco, I have a classic interview with him on Fox & Friends, when Arnold was thinking of running for Governor. And they asked Franco if he and Arnold used steroids and he said the following statement, word for word. "In the 70's I asked Arnold "What are these steroids that people keep talking about". Arnold got angry at me and said "Forget about that, let's just get to the Gym and TRAIN!!!" "As time went on I'm sure Arnold may have tried a little bit here and there" ::). Try not to put your fist through the computer screen in anger at the hypocrisy of that statement. So according to Franco, the subject of Steroids didn't come up until some 8-10 years into their friendship ;).
SERGIO!!!!
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Very cute stuff. I'm familiar with the I'm just a stupid emmigrant that hasn't mastered the language and am so quaint, rustic, innocent and shit act... ;D
What actually happened is:
Franco: Ahnold, wat iz diz stuff "steroids"?
Arnold: Argh, Franco, you stupids childs, "seine steroide"! The stuff we have been uzing for 15 years everyday! Now lets go the gym and train and so on, and do ze stuff we do at the gym and things like that. Before ze steroide wear off.
Franco: Warum behandeln Sie mich mag ein Kind? Ich habe nicht gewusst, stimmt zu? (Why do you treat me like a child? I did not know, ok?)
You see, it was just a language barrier...
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that's why franco developed gyno in the last olympia that he competed in and won. bobby pandour the greatest natural physique circa 1900's.
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And they asked Franco if he and Arnold used steroids and he said the following statement, word for word. "In the 70's I asked Arnold "What are these steroids that people keep talking about". Arnold got angry at me and said "Forget about that, let's just get to the Gym and TRAIN!!!" "As time went on I'm sure Arnold may have tried a little bit here and there" ::). Try not to put your fist through the computer screen in anger at the hypocrisy of that statement. So according to Franco, the subject of Steroids didn't come up until some 8-10 years into their friendship ;).
SERGIO!!!!
Columbu also claims that he fully deserved both Olympias he won.
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Franco: Ahnold, wat iz diz stuff "steroids"?
Arnold: Argh, Franco, you stupids childs, "seine steroide"! The stuff we have been uzing for 15 years everyday! Now lets go the gym and train and so on, and do ze stuff we do at the gym and things like that. Before ze steroide wear off.
Franco: Warum behandeln Sie mich mag ein Kind? Ich habe nicht gewusst, stimmt zu? (Why do you treat me like a child? I did not know, ok?)
You see, it was just a language barrier...
Ya it's convincing to claim that they were both innocent & wholesome, living in Venice Beach in the late 60s LOL
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Be careful what you write because some of them read and post here at GetBig and know "it is well known that he did" is complete b.s. You lose credibility when you write lies like that about Steve.
Steve was honest and natural his entire life. That's the truth. If anyone can't see it...take it down to the bone structure...and wonder why Steve's skeleton is wider than some guys alive with muscles on their physique who are on steroids. Steve was a BIG man because he had a BIG FRAME...with some muscle on it...he was bigger in life....bigger than life...that is why he was Legend...so GetBig...and tell the truth about Steve Reeves.
Here is an interview with Sergio where he talked about drug use in the 60's and mentions Steve :
BDJ: Could you relay your own experience with drug use?
SO: This is an area of great interest for people. I don't care who wants to take steroids, because that's a personal choice... that's his life. Now, today, everybody has access to them. I even saw in one of the big magazines that Arnold denies having used them, but Arnold was one of the first to bring steroids over to America. And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it. It wasn't much, nothing like today. But the development of drugs is much different. I used decca and dianabol, and that was something really big at the time; and decca was not considered that bad. It was even prescribed by doctors to help make your bones strong. Today you have guys weighing 200 pounds, and six months later they weigh 250-300 pounds! So you know these guys are taking something unbelievable. When they say they haven't taken any thing, you know that it's phony.
I don't have access to it but I also read an interview where Harold Poole said that Steve took steroids but mainly relied on B12 injections. I think you misinterpreted that I'm some sought of hater on Steve, I'm not. I loved the guy and he's in my top 10 bodybuilders of all time. I'm just being honest, based on what I've read and heard from fellow bodybuilding fans.
SERGIO!!!!
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Oliva seems generally on point but not always. When he said that Schwarzenegger was one of the first his credibility took a hit. Same with Reeves, since that wasn't his generation and he offered no evidence to back it up.
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You are wrong saying Steve Reeves took steroids and was a liar...and it shows you did not know Steve at all. If he did steroids, he would just say so and not give a damn. That's just the way his was. No b.s. about him. Steve would talk about his life and say, "I tried this and this worked well and this went wrong..." He didn't care if he impressed anyone...and he wouldn't lie about steroids either. I knew Steve...and I can tell by what you write about him that you clearly didn't.
The guys who served in WWII with Steve called him "The Shape" and talked about how he and Tony came up with $20 for some used barbells in the Philippines to train with and share with the guys. Steve would eat 3 plates of food at every meal if he could manage to get extra because he burned so many calories he had to in order to keep the weight on. While with Company B of the 25th division, Steve would strap a 5 gallon can on his back and run down to Zaragoza River, fill up the can and hike back up the hill while snipers shot at him. He did this so the troops would have enough water to drink.
When Steve was stationed in Otaruon, Japan on Nokkaido Island, it was very cold and snowed a lot. Everyone was given a coat to wear except Steve because there were no coats that were broad enough in the shoulders to fit him. An officer saw this and ordered him one..but it arrived for him 2 months after the snow melted. Here is Steve with this HUGE frame...and muscle on it to boot...without a coat to fit him. That was not from steroids, kids...and he never took any at any time after that. And he didn't lie about it. I'm glad anyone here who badmouths Steve and tell lies regarding his character wasn't in the service with him back then...you would have shot him in the back while he served in the front line--because that's what you are doing to his name here.
I will tell you what is well known...from the ones who knew Steve better than anyone...Steve's friends, Steve's co-workers, Steve's family, and even jealous guys who hated Steve for his good genetics and seemingly perfection, guys who competed against him, magazine publishers who wrote about him, bodybuilding journalists and reporters through the years, famous and non-famous bodybuilders through the decades that followed him wrote about him in their books, newsletters and magazines said the same thing about Steve. That he was a natural. Are all of those people liars and stupid? No. Be careful what you write because some of them read and post here at GetBig and know "it is well known that he did" is complete b.s. You lose credibility when you write lies like that about Steve.
Steve was honest and natural his entire life. That's the truth. If anyone can't see it...take it down to the bone structure...and wonder why Steve's skeleton is wider than some guys alive with muscles on their physique who are on steroids. Steve was a BIG man because he had a BIG FRAME...with some muscle on it...he was bigger in life....bigger than life...that is why he was Legend...so GetBig...and tell the truth about Steve Reeves.
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/steve4.JPG)
Click twice for full size:
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/steve4.JPG (http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/steve4.JPG)
See, this is exactly the romantic line of thought I was trying to illustrate ;D Thanks for assisting. ;)
It doesn't take anything away from Reeves the fact he took aas, its part and parcel of bbing. Also it helps bbing actors retain their size whilst in Italy on movie sets with little time and poor facilities to train in, as well as unable to keep up with diet,not to mention at an older age. Ask Stallone, Arnold, Lundgren and Weathers(unless they're also lifetime natties ::)).
This is reminiscent of people that think wrestling is for real. People that believe cyclists dont dope, especially Lance Armstrong. People that look down on baseball players, because after many decades of using dating back to Babe Ruth, only now some of them have been bust. Why would any of them admit it? Its taboo and frowned upon due to media hype and negative, mainly speculative and false propagada.
If they negate it and we wear blinkers, they remain heroes.
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Thank you Pumpster. I appreciate your comment. SergioRules77, thanks for saying where you heard the information. I don't know who told Sergio that garbage about Steve, but I can imagine the intentions of the person who originated the b.s. Harold Poole is also either in the same category of the mistaken and confused...or purposely intended to mislead people into believing wrong and set Steve up to look like a liar. It's all b.s. Serge knows Sergio. I'll tell him the next time he talks to Sergio, he should correct his information about Steve. Sergio has too big of a following to be saying misinformation about Steve Reeves to anyone. Figo, did you mean to say "blinders" instead of "blinkers"? It looks like your math is as good as your spelling...and your history sucks too. But you do get an A+ in Asshole...making up stories about my family, badmouthing, lying, making fun of and proceeding to tell me who and what I know and who Steve Reeves was when you never even met him. What a f. joke. You don't have a clue. What's worse is your response to those in the know who tell others the truth. Anyone smart would shut their mouth. Your silly smug pseudo-intellectual half-truths added to more lies piled on top of them as if we're impressed or convinced by your made up physical culture history accounts are nothing but ridiculous b.s. You fool no one but yourself.
Your post shows one thing--if you had any size at all naturally, you wouldn't spend your time trying to prove that no great bodybuilder ever existed without drugs. How foolish on your part to reveal your size and mediocre genetics by setting out on a crusade of lies against dead men who aren't here to defend themselves. You're a real asshole to be lying about Steve. One day I hope someone returns the favor and defames you in the same way you are trying to do to him. Then you will understand how it feels and how wrong it is.
Steve's grandfather, Sylvester Reeves, is my great-grandfather. This is why I am friends with Serge Nubret, who mentioned it at bodybuilding.com and planetmuscle. There are people here who know me...have seen birth certificates, old letters, pictures or heard it from Steve, but apparently you don't Figo because you attempt to educate me about Steve Reeves as if you knew him better than I do. YOU telling ME about STEVE. lol. I am not a just a fan. I have the same blood. Should I tell you about one of your family members who I never met? Tell you the kind of person he was? Feed you horse s#*t saying he took drugs and call him a liar too? All this and make up more for the public to read? You are way out of line. I KNOW what Steve's body is like naturally better than anyone because I have the same genetics...same broadness in shoulders and back and small waist, same eyes as Sylvester, Lester and Steve...and nose, face, and wavy thick hair, strong legs and overall strength... It's in my genes and my jeans, so don't tell me who and what my family is like. I have never taken any drugs except for an aspirin when I had a headache, so I know what's possible for a natural. I place no judgement on anyone who wants to take drugs to grow in size. That's a personal choice and I believe in freedom of choice...but I will not sit back and listen to some dumbass lie and make fun of my family and give me shit for trying to set the record straight to the younger people who didn't know Steve, but would have had interest if someone else hadn't slandered his name, bad mouthed and lied about him.
Anyone ripping down Steve must be angry about having bad genetics. If you felt good about how you looked, you wouldn't be ripping down one of the finest human beings whose hallmark was honesty and living naturally. You would be talking about how you love to train instead. Continue to bad mouth Steve Reeves...and you illustrate nothing but rude, sloppy, foolish disrespect and dishonesty. Tell the truth...and gain credibility.
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/bull.JPG)
All I see here, is someone who's vicariously living his life through others.
This is a blinker btw:
(http://www.allertons.com/oddington/include/images/products/Blinkers.jpg)
You should know that, since you were so close to Mr Reeves and he bred equines, right?
Dont know what math has to do with it, other than that, do a spell check on my posts, knock yourself out.
I'm not gonna stoop down to your level, that's not for this board, seems I struck a nerve though, as the possibility of a truth we deny, does(blinkers).
Suffice to say I and others have an opinion, don't believe he was natural his whole life. As I pointed out, it doesn't detract from him as a bber, nor as a person. I always admired Reeves' physique, and heard he was a real gentleman. I think he is the forerunner of bbing as we would like it to be, fantastic shape on a perfect structure, every muscle developed just in its perfect element and harmony with the others, nothing out of place.
You on the other hand, seem to have unfulfilled aspirations, I know this guy, I'm related to that one...I really couldn't care less who you know. Name dropping and living life through others is an empty existence.
My point was made, and you have illustrated it. Go do a spell check after you finish telling a story how Steve actually acnowledged you the one time, and almost got your name right another.
Regarding my genes, I have no loss of sleep at night, nor do I quote relatives of mine and compare my hair, facial features and structure to theirs, I'd consider myself a loser then...having to live in someone else's shadow is very sad.
However, if I looked 1/10th as good as Mr Reeves, and took aas in order to achieve that goal, I would not have a prob in admitting it. However, someone with a rep to uphold, such as a legendary pro bber fro the IA, would. But, its up to us to separate truth from b.s. with a grain of salt.That, Made In Montana, is the whole point of this thread.
However, nobody has the blessing of genes that would enable them to look like Reeves. Unless... your great grandfather was Reeves' grandfather, and, only, if, but...ahhh, too late.
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Columbu also claims that he fully deserved both Olympias he won.
'76 Olympia, I'll buy.
'81 Olympia? I call bullshit! That one belonged to Danny Padilla. But when you got your 'best friend' as the promoter, how can you lose? :-X
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'76 Olympia, I'll buy.
'81 Olympia? I call bullshit! That one belonged to Danny Padilla. But when you got your 'best friend' as the promoter, how can you lose? :-X
Columbu looked good in '76, but was still never able to beat Oliva, Nubret and others. Basically him winning in '76 is something like the '84 Olympics without the Russians.
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Suffice to say I and others have an opinion, don't believe he was natural his whole life. As I pointed out, it doesn't detract from him as a bber, nor as a person. I always admired Reeves' physique, and heard he was a real gentleman. I think he is the forerunner of bbing as we would like it to be, fantastic shape on a perfect structure, every muscle developed just in its perfect element and harmony with the others, nothing out of place.However, someone with a rep to uphold, such as a legendary pro bber fro the IA(iron age), would. But, its up to us to separate truth from b.s. with a grain of salt.That, Made In Montana, is the whole point of this thread.
Made in Montana, you did not quote the other above bits, I believe they are pertinent. NOWHERE on this thread have I gone out to assault nor attack Reeves. As I said, he was a great bber, and we shouldn't denigrate his memory as he is no longer here to defend himself, I fully believe, and I'm not.
I'll say it again, wether he was on aas or not at any point in his career, does not take away from him as a man or bber, it is MY OPINION that many have taken, and then to keep up their image, negate it.
I wasn't even the first to bring up Reeves, I just started getting attacked by yourself, whom I sense have had this argument before.
How on earth, can we prove for sure anyone took steroids in the 40's, 50's, etc? How can I, prove that?
I can't, its all speculation, and over the years I've become cynical to comments from guys that they are natural, when in fact, they were not(as illustrated by Franco).
As for your attacks on me, having poor genes, taking drugs, and propagating rumours to feel better about myself, come on, take it easy, lighten up. Do I even take drugs? I'm just another guy on the internet expressing my view, not claiming to be or want to be anything. ;)
I'd like to believe Reeves and many others were completely natural, we all need inspiration like that to give us something real to strive for, believe in and admire. But over the years, believing a guy was nattie, it has become like believing in Santa Claus.
In all seriousness, if it upsets you this much, we'll stop discussing Reeves, as if I was a relative of his, and close to him, I'd be upset. I don't know his life, those who knew him did. I expressed my opinion, didn't set out to attack Reeves(this was a general topic), but you got a hard-on for me, so we pursued the topic...
Why don't you start a new thread or here, and post pics and relate stories if you knew him? Thats what this board is for, not too attack each other, leave that for the g&o section. Too emphasize my point here, if you look at the thread by gh15 on Reeves, I posted there several times my feelings re Steve Reeves(like anyone cares what I think about Reeves ::),but you know what I mean).
To re-iterate, one gets pissed off swallowing b.s. all the time by those we admire, and we like to believe in something but sometimes get taken for fools, is the point of this thread, not S.R.'s aas past.
Take it easy.
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Who cares if Reeves used roids or not? Doesn't change the fact that I think his physique (and even one more muscular) is achievable naturally. I've known some people who took roids and had a lot less muscle than Reeves and others who were natural and had more muscle. Either way, Reeves had a great physique.
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Who cares if Reeves used roids or not? Doesn't change the fact that I think his physique (and even one more muscular) is achievable naturally. I've known some people who took roids and had a lot less muscle than Reeves and others who were natural and had more muscle. Either way, Reeves had a great physique.
True.
But a frame and genetic shape the kind he had, are another story altogether to duplicate.
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Who cares if Reeves used roids or not? Doesn't change the fact that I think his physique (and even one more muscular) is achievable naturally. I've known some people who took roids and had a lot less muscle than Reeves and others who were natural and had more muscle. Either way, Reeves had a great physique.
Well it's of interest to know, regardless of how he looked.
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Made in Montana,
Let me try again, as there seems to be a communication gap here.
I did not set out to attack Reeves, someone else brought him up. But when I started getting attacked by yourself, then yes, I baited you.
I'm pretty sure you understand the point of this thread, and its not to denigrate Reeves.
Please do share your stories, memories and encounters with Reeves. Particularly his nutrition, training and views on bbing, and what he had to say about drugs use in bbing if anything. It would be very interesting to read.
I did not hear Reeves took drugs, I never said that. I have no sources, and never made anything up stating it as purported fact.
Oh, and any Serge Nubret stories would be nice too. :)
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It's hard to tell if Reeves used drugs. Without anything conclusive it would be better to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, especially that long ago.
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When I said "the fact he took aas" it was not meaning I knew it as a fact or that it was 'factual'. If that is what you're saying is the statement and lie I made, then you've misunderstood, I said that meaning, that if he in fact did take anabolics, it does not take away from him, because so did everyone else, and he was head and shoulders above anyone else.
I hope that is cleared up, I am not and have no need to back track nor change my tune, as I too have admired Reeves for decades, and did not defamate nor state any facts, only speculated.
I hope that is out of the way, and we can carry on discussing the subject ;D.
One last thing:
I came across this interesting bit of internet info(aka b.s./gossip/fact with a twist):
"Wendy Leigh's bio of Schwarzenegger (which makes a
convincing case and is thoroughly footnoted) states
that S. was first gym-mentored by Kurt Marnul, former
Mr. Austria. Marnul had learned of steroids from Steve
Reeves,early Mr. America and first movie Hercules (No.
1 box-office attraction in the world in 1961). Thus,
steroid usage dates back to the beginnings of
bodybuilding as an organized endeavor. Marnul told S.
it was not possible to make it in bodybuilding without
steroids; consequently, as S. told Rick Wayne, former
editor Muscle Builder/Power, he began using them at
the age of 13. "
Now, before you jump down my throat, this is only a quote.
Made in Montana, did Reeves even know Marnul, if so, how and why?
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"... Steve would strap a 5 gallon can on his back and run down to Zaragoza River, fill up the can and hike back up the hill while snipers shot at him..."
;D OK, sounds good to me.
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Incredible wealth of information here.
Made in Montana obviously knows what he is talking about.
Hey Made in Montana can you tell me some of Steve Reeves feats of strength?
I think Steve is doing something like 160 pound inclines here.
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Incredible wealth of information here.
Made in Montana obviously knows what he is talking about.
Hey Made in Montana can you tell me some of Steve Reeves feats of strength?
I think Steve is doing something like 160 pound inclines here.
100lbs
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I think u madeinmontana should wake up and smell the roses because u are either lying or are dellusional. Read again the thread about Reeves that gh15 wrote....it's pretty self explanatory.
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Very cool pics Made in Montana.
I have tremendous respect for Steve Reeves.
Even that fully clothed shot looks insane! Crazy wide shoulders!
I hope to get mine that wide some day.
And lucky you to share his genetics! ;)
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Wendy Leigh stated in her book Arnold: An Unauthorized Biography on p. 27 that Kurt Marnul told Arnold about steroids and that Marnul said he learned about steroids and their dosage from Steve Reeves, whom he claims to have met in France during a 1952 vacation. Here's what Steve said about this (these are his exact words when he was asked about this in an interview):
"That statement has also been brought to my attention by a friend who surfs the internet. No, it is not true. I never heard of steroids until the mid 1960s and I was never in France during the 1950s! My first trip to France was in 1948 when I entered and won the "Mr. World" contest in Cannes. My second trip to France was not until 1960 when I attended the premiere of my movie, "The Last Days of Pompeii. I have never heard of Kurt Marnul and I don't know what motive he had in making that statement to Arnold. I can only speculate that he might have mixed me up with another bodybuilder of that period, or that he was trying to impress Arnold by telling him that he knew me" (Building the Classic Physique, p. 171).
This photo was taken during the Mr. World contest.
(http://blog.bodybuilding.com/wp-content/blogs/1164/uploads//mrworld50.JPG)
It is my opinion that Marnul thought that Arnold might listen to him about steroids if he thought other bodybuilders were doing them. Marnul lied and Wendy Leigh is sloppy not to include the whole story and talk to Steve before printing her book. This kind of thing is important to a bodybuilder. She apparently isn't one and didn't care about clarifying the truth. She loses credibility too.
You know your stuff ;D
These pics are gold! Thanks for sharing.
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Made in Montana,
In Steve Reeves' day, were the mandatories in use? You know, double bi, side chest, side tri, etc?
Never seen him nor his contemporaries displaying some of the poses, mainly variations thereof.
Going back to my comment in jest earlier in thread, how did Reeves stay in shape while on location(filming)? Lets face it, I believe most films were shot in Italy, and that country wasnt exactly great for a bbers diet those days, and what about training, makeshift equipment?
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Made in Montana [ ::)], you're relying on Streeve Reeve's word - which doesn't mean shit. You clearly worship the ground he used to mince on, and that's fair enough - but its time to get real. PEOPLE LIE!!! For decades, DECADES, Arnold, Franco, Zane and all the others SWORE they never used steroids. They were lying. When Arnold said he didn't grope those girls - he was lying. When Franco denied being Arnold's bottom - he was lying. When Reeves claimed he never used steroids - he was lying. So what? Get over it.
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Great pics.
As far as the steroid thing goes, regarding Reeves, I don't think we'll get anywhere debating it. Made in Montana knew him, and this is one of those legends that we can at least admire in the sense that he didn't talk shit, or insult our intelligence.
I started this thread aiming at the bigger, more defined, and conditioned physiques of the late 60's onwards anyway. Not to say they were better than Reeves, because somethings you don't find in a bottle.
Very inspirational stuff, please keep it coming.
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The guys in question are the ones who looked 3X bigger than Steve while using steroids, but shriveled up and looked half his size when they stop taking them.
That's what I'm talking about. Sure, one can argue, the guy retired, what does he have to train/eat for? But naturally attained lean tissue will not wither away like that, especially if it was achieved naturally by an individual thats supposedly drug-free, and has the genes to grow and hold on to muscle naturally.
The feat that Steve couldn't train upper body properly for years, and stayed in shape, exemplifies this point.
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great pics on this thread - particularly the one of the 4 mr americas is cool
the only way to settle the steroid debate - get kurt marnul to post on this thread - what reason does he have to lie after all these years ? did he say that to impress a young arnold or did he actually meet reeves when he won the mr world? track down marnul...
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Made in Montana, wow, what a meltdown!
1] I used Arnold, Franco and Zane as examples because they're the most famous. Arnold only admitted to using steroids post 91 - before that he never admitted it, or 'cheekily' laughed off the question. To my knowledge Franco has never admitted it!
2] You obviously think the word of 'Streeve Reeveees' is golden. Pathetic. For all you know he was not only using steroids but sucking off underage latino schoolboys.
3] whereas you believe Reeeeveeeees, i choose to believe Sergio. You say "Sergio must have been mistaken", "Marnul must have been mistaken. He meant a different Streeve Reeeveeees" etc etc.
4] Why do you care if i make spelling or grammatical errors?
5] Streeve used steroids. Prove he didn't. Not by saying, "he was a man of his word" etc. I want you o provide photographic eveidence of everyday that Streeevee was alive. If you can do that then i will admit he was clean. Otherwise he was a juicer. Deal with it, bitch.
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Innocent until proven guilty I say - if you guys have no proof then his natural status stands.
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Made in Montana,
The pics and posts relating stories have been gold.
Ignore the b.s. and keep up with the history lessons.
I couldn't care less about proving right and wrong, and being a keyboard warrior, as 'bodies' said, no proof of otherwise, then he was clean. And as I've said before, even if he wasn't clean, he still puts juicers to shame in our day, so it makes no diff.
Can you elaborate on Reeves' use of gelatin(jello you call it in the States?) and eggs(if I'm not mistaken?) in order to create a perfect protein? Read about it many years ago...
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Hey Made in Montana,
Just wanted to let you know I appreciate all the contibutions you bring to these boards. Stories like these from an insider on top, are golden.
A lot of pictures you post I have never seen before and don't think I could find on the internet for free.
I am curious as to know what your stats are.. if you'd be willing to share. Are you going to compete also?
Anyways a big thank you from me and many others who will be viewing your posts.
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It's very romantic to view steve like made in montana wants to but reality was different my buddy
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this is the last time i respond to this topic after some of you beg me to in private messeges.
i chose to quote this specific dude for no particular reason so dont get all offended on me.
if,,when,,why,,where,, all this words dont matter. the only place i would put the IF word is in this sentence,,,:if you cant see for yourself what it takes to be the leader of the pack when it comes to bodybuilding,,,then you dont know your sport/industry. infact then it was the leader of the pack and few other lucky ones,,,now days it is any one in the pack,,,even the local thomas county georgia ymca night champ is on.
you put lots of nonesense,,i knew,,i trained,,,myfriend was eating dinner with,,my granma cooked,,it dont matter.
steve reeves never had kids
steve reeves was absorbed with himself
steve reeves was a womanizer ,,which i support in a way,,
steve reeves was experiementing with hormones
steve reeves was a loner,,no one knew his personality well because he was a loner that liked animals more than people
steve reeves walked day and night thinking how he can make himself bigger (yes 220 6% in 1940 was very big and still is to this day even at 6'1)
lastly,,ingeneral for all of you lifters of the late 70s-2000s,,,,when you enter a gym tellin your buddies and hoes around that you are not jacked and you dont touch juice,,you gotta remember that growth, igf1lr3 and insulin are A HELL OF A LOT better than juice for building muscle/size and also are legal for use for "research" in many states and countries around the world.
so simply get off the olympus my friends,,ive seen it all,,heard it all,,,every day we got 10 steve reeves come to us buying their goodies and then email us 2 hours later asking how come its not there yet,,,this is body-building,,,every one for himself.
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Never knew Nubret was inspired by Reeves.
Makes sense though, his physique does emulate Steve's lines. Both had/have superior genes. Nubret great example of genetics, at his age, he puts 20-somethings to shame, wether he was or is(doubt it) enhanced, is irrelevant, at that age, a natural foundation shines through, as those who don't possess it, wither away. Thats not a drug 'built' physique.
Was Serge in close contact with Reeves?
Wanted to ask as others have, to post pics of yourself, but don't know if its worth the ragging and nitpicking you're sure to get. You could look like a carbon-copy of Reeves, but an "expert" will find fault... ::)
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this is the last time i respond to this topic after some of you beg me to in private messeges.
i chose to quote this specific dude for no particular reason so dont get all offended on me.
if,,when,,why,,where,, all this words dont matter. the only place i would put the IF word is in this sentence,,,:if you cant see for yourself what it takes to be the leader of the pack when it comes to bodybuilding,,,then you dont know your sport/industry. infact then it was the leader of the pack and few other lucky ones,,,now days it is any one in the pack,,,even the local thomas county georgia ymca night champ is on.
you put lots of nonesense,,i knew,,i trained,,,myfriend was eating dinner with,,my granma cooked,,it dont matter.
steve reeves never had kids
steve reeves was absorbed with himself
steve reeves was a womanizer ,,which i support in a way,,
steve reeves was experiementing with hormones
steve reeves was a loner,,no one knew his personality well because he was a loner that liked animals more than people
steve reeves walked day and night thinking how he can make himself bigger (yes 220 6% in 1940 was very big and still is to this day even at 6'1)
lastly,,ingeneral for all of you lifters of the late 70s-2000s,,,,when you enter a gym tellin your buddies and hoes around that you are not jacked and you dont touch juice,,you gotta remember that growth, igf1lr3 and insulin are A HELL OF A LOT better than juice for building muscle/size and also are legal for use for "research" in many states and countries around the world.
so simply get off the olympus my friends,,ive seen it all,,heard it all,,,every day we got 10 steve reeves come to us buying their goodies and then email us 2 hours later asking how come its not there yet,,,this is body-building,,,every one for himself.
I find gh15's posts interesting, and sometimes enlightening, but not the be-all-end-all, as some on here do.
This is speculation and conjecture forming a theory, which is fine, and can be shared as a conspiracy theory, but it means nothing without proof that someone heard Steve say something or saw an actual syringe piercing a buttock, or a tablet being swallowed (sounds weird if read out of context :-\), Till then, its a theory fomed by someone who didn't know him, forming an argument that some believe (maybe because you want to), however, M in M obviously knew him, and he has proven it and beyond. At first I was sceptical, as we come across "experts" and "friends" all the time here, but now realize we should cherish the info and pics he is sharing with us, as real fans should.
In other words, lets not fuck it up and chase the guy away pissed, he' a good poster, and has been corteous and patient with doubters, including myself.
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Much respect to him but I CANNOT SWALLOW HIS BULLSHIT ABOUT REEVES BEING NATURAL AND ALL ...IT JUST INSULTS MY INTELLIGENCE....SORRY BUT I'M SO FED UPWITH THE NATURAL BULLSHIT....I'D RATHER HAVE HIM FUCK OFF THIS BOARD BUT I LIKE DEMOCRACY SO EVERYONEIS ENTITLED TO HIS/HER OPP....
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I'm all for democracy, Sevastase.
But perhaps you're letting your frustation (which I share, hence this thread) get the better of you, and venting and targeting it on an individual?
This man is not only related, but also looks up to Reeves, and his memory. Should someone speak in an ill-fashioned manner about your deceased relative whom you cherished very much and along with a large percentage of people idolized, you too would take it personally.
As far as M in M knows, as told to him by Reeves and not refuted by anyone else, the man did not touch anabolics. Now, you disagree, but its only your opinion, with no back-up.
As an example, I know for fucking sure there ain't no way Lance Armstrong did not dope, he denies it, and people believe him, due to his adversity overcoming background, and because they need something to believe in. But I can't prove it, can I? No, I can't. So that frustrates me.
Perhaps thats how you feel about Reeves, but till proven otherwise, he was clean...
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Made in Montana, wow, what a meltdown!
1] I used Arnold, Franco and Zane as examples because they're the most famous. Arnold only admitted to using steroids post 91 - before that he never admitted it, or 'cheekily' laughed off the question. To my knowledge Franco has never admitted it!
2] You obviously think the word of 'Streeve Reeveees' is golden. Pathetic. For all you know he was not only using steroids but sucking off underage latino schoolboys.
3] whereas you believe Reeeeveeeees, i choose to believe Sergio. You say "Sergio must have been mistaken", "Marnul must have been mistaken. He meant a different Streeve Reeeveeees" etc etc.
4] Why do you care if i make spelling or grammatical errors?
5] Streeve used steroids. Prove he didn't. Not by saying, "he was a man of his word" etc. I want you o provide photographic eveidence of everyday that Streeevee was alive. If you can do that then i will admit he was clean. Otherwise he was a juicer. Deal with it, bitch.
I agree with you UK about Steeves drug use,but I have an old copy of M&F (early 80s) where Arnold talks about where he went wrong with his contest drug stack at the Australian O,so he was open about it long before 91.
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Made in Montana :.....Bob Kennedy has said in an interview that "all" of the old timers were on the sauce ,what do you say to this?Realising that Bob is/was very close to Steve.
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I can tell you that back in the 1960s steroid use and talk was insider only stuff. Weightlifters were using but not one bodybuilder admitting to using in the early 60s. It was considered cheating. So, if anyone were using they would deny it and, anyway, how could one prove otherwise? In my opinion I doubt many men have won big contests natural since 1970.
If we look at the history of doping in sport and bodybuilding it is clear the weightlifters and bodybuilders were at the cutting edge of what was used. It was always assumed the Eastern bloc used steroids as far back as the 50s. Did champion bodybuilders from the 50s use steroids? I really don't know. There have been rumours but that is hardly proof. What we do know is none of those guys have any visible side effects such as gynocomastia, etc.
Let us do a thought experiment. Remember that steroid use was considered cheating and therefore immoral. Those drugs were also considered dangerous because it was thought they might trigger cancers, etc. Well, if you were training your guts out and getting average results would you use anabolics or testosterone if no one would ever know or find out? Would you confess to being a cheater and therefore cancel any titles and honours won through using drugs? I dare say just about everyone would deny using anything at all.
The champions from the past die and take the truth with them. In the absence of confessions we have to suspend judgment one way or other. It is neither nice to accuse people who may have been naturals nor honourable to insist they are so when we cannot know that for certain. This is one issue that will remain controversial until someone resolves things to everyone's satisfaction.
Looking back at Arnold and Sergio I can tell you they were absolutely huge and unbelievable in those days. How on earth did they get so much bigger than just about everyone else? Larry Scott retired after glimpsing Sergio. It appears safe to assume that no Mr Olympia was a natural. The first Mr Olympia was in 1965. Drugs were used long before then. How much earlier is something the historians will have to determine but I believe it was about 1956 or so. It would be interesting to get into the archives of Ciba and discover some of the facts there.
One of the interesting things about Reeves is to explain how he got such a great physique without doing as much training as most of the lads were doing. He seemed to do a few sets and get big.
From what I have read I doubt anyone used steroids in the 1940s but it is still possible because Dr John Ziegler claimed to have developed steroids to help wounded soldiers in WWII. Did the lads use testosterone in the 40s? No one seems to know.
One thing is certain. Every champion before 1970 would be astonished by the drug protocols used today by men and women professional bodybuilders. They wouldn't be pleased at what those agents do to the bodybuilders or the sport.
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Years back, in a MMI (muclemag international)issue, if not mistaken, I read an interview of Reeves(before his passing), where they discussed his early training. He stated that at the gym where he had been training, the guys had asked him how had he made such progress so fast, was he on the juice? He said yes, he drank orange juice... ;D
Obviously then, that shows us that his peers knew full well about "juice", that it was available, that they probably took, and that at that time, at least, Reeves too became aware. It doesn't however, say he took any.
The pic at 14 is amazing. Did he start training at 7? :o
The cover of Muscle, is that Don Ross with Nubret?
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This is a fantastic topic. Thanks for all the great info Made in Montana
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Much respect to him but I CANNOT SWALLOW HIS BULLSHIT ABOUT REEVES BEING NATURAL AND ALL ...IT JUST INSULTS MY INTELLIGENCE....SORRY BUT I'M SO FED UPWITH THE NATURAL BULLSHIT....I'D RATHER HAVE HIM FUCK OFF THIS BOARD BUT I LIKE DEMOCRACY SO EVERYONEIS ENTITLED TO HIS/HER OPP....
Dude i've seen your pics and your attention-starved posts. You're once again trolling for attention.
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I followed the Irongame through collecting old magazines some of which featured Reeves winning the Mr America in 1947. The various writers would have heard if anyone was using steroids. I didn't hear anything about drugs until I went to UBC in the early 60s. No one knew for sure so it was all hush hush. There were a few weightlifters hoisting 50+ pounds more than anyone at the same bodyweight. We just assumed they were naturals and better athletes. Everyone who read the magazines assumed the Russians were doing things to give their lifters an advantage and they beat the Americans for decades and probably still do.
Steve Reeves seemed to be the epitome of health because he was influenced by a woman who ran that boarding house about nutrition. Steve wanted to live to be 100 and be healthy. He had great hair and perfect teeth. In those days health was important. I was shocked when Steve died at age about 75 a few years ago. I always assumed he would live to be older than Grimek who died age 89 or 90.
We heard that Steve didn't hang out with the muscleheads but did his own thing. That he was able to do rather brief training and win titles shows he was ahead of his time. The guys who beat Steve in 1949 are not heard of much anymore. I really am amazed because Grimek was hailed as the Monarch of Muscledom and Clarence Ross was the King of Bodybuilders. They were in all the magazines and Ross, especially, was used in ads to sell protein, etc.
From a philosopher of science point of view it really is not possible to establish beyond doubt what the lads did or didn't do in those days. The stain from any improper activity was so great that I doubt anyone would admit if in fact they had done so. We can change our minds if sufficient evidence is ever presented that is convincing. That anyone who knows Steve swears the guy wouldn't do anything like that is not evidence in itself. Character references don't prove or disprove facts. Thanks to MinM for the posts about Steve because all of that information helps us know Steve better.
I honestly think using drugs in those days (1940) was literally betraying the bodybuilding/health movement. If someone cheated on an exam and nobody found out would they ever confess? Well, there you are. No bodybuilder from those days is going to say a word. Those who claim all were naturals in the 40s don't have anyone contradicting them who has any evidence to the contrary. That in itself is not absolute proof there were no cheaters. It would be an interesting, but huge, task to reread all those old magazines to see when Dianabol or any other agent was first mentioned.
Clearly this discussion board cannot settle this matter because it is a factual matter. All the arguments in the world cannot enlighten us about things we have no way of knowing for certain. Let us respect Steve Reeves and I dare say John Grimek as great natural champions from the Golden era of bodybuilding.
I believe we should honour Steve and accept that he was natural when he competed up until he retired in 1950 when he beat Reg Park for the Mr Universe title.
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Physique wise what impresses me most about Reeves is his width. Hey may not be all that thick but is wide like a barndoor!
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Don Ross was young there!
Ross was great, especially enjoyed his writing, but those are two physique extremes, beauty and the beast there... ;D
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Well, it really is a waste to join some discussions. Some people interpret things totally without merit and they probably read what isn't there or intended.
If Steve Reeves said that he didn't hear about anabolic steroids until the mid sixties that is interesting. Everyone was talking about steroids. Larry Scott and the California musclemen were surely using by then. If Steve had no knowledge then he wasn't hanging around bodybuilders or reading the magazines.
I don't have any information whatever about Steve Reeves and any steroid use. None. From what I know about bodybuilders I always am suspicious about how they got so big in the old days. If we extrapolate back from what modern muscleheads do we have to accept that some bodybuilders would have looked for shortcuts. If someone discovered he made good gains from using something he might tell his mates. That is the way information spreads. In the old days there weren't many gyms around but the muscleheads would know each other and pass on information.
Was Steve Reeves totally natural throughout his bodybuilding career? I have no idea. My guess is he probably was. If someone came along with definite proof to contradict this it wouldn't surprise me but I would be very disappointed.
I look back at my career. I started training in Feb 1959. Gains came quite slowly but my strength shot ahead. I grew much better when I attended college and university because for the first time I ate properly. I even grew an inch and a half since graduating from high school. While at UBC I was on the weightlifting team and eventually earned my Big Block letter for that sport. My best lifts as a mid-heavy were 255-215-285. When I competed with some American lifters in the Northwest some of them were cleaning and jerking 335. That was a heck of a lot more than I could do. I just kept on training and started enterring bodybuilding shows in Vancouver. My first win was in 1964 in the Mr North Vancouver. Conveniently I was the only competitor from that suburb! I started placing high in the local shows but there were always a few guys ahead of me. We heard about steroids but no one I knew actually took them or confessed. In 1965 I enterred the Mr Ten Provinces contest in Toronto when I was at the University of Toronto.
In 1970 Ray Beck, who I worked for in his gyms, promoted the Mr Canada contest. Well, I knew I wasn't going to win that show naturally so I got my ex to get me some Dianabol tablets. I had no clue about getting them nor would I present to a doctor because that would have been too embarrassing. So I did about 2 months of Dianabol taking two 5mg tablets a day. My strength shot up quickly and I gained some size especially in the pecs. I stopped taking the pills about one month out. When I started dieting I lost too much size so took the pills for two weeks until the contest. I lost 20 pounds in the last two weeks. Luckily only one guy showed up from Quebec and no one from Ontario. I won a close contest against local Ken Rivard who was much larger in the upper body but lacked size in the legs. I got 8 votes and Ken got 5 out of 13 judges. That is close.
Now, if I chose to keep my mouth shut I could have claimed I was natural when I won the Mr Canada. However, I don't believe in telling lies. Had the show been 10 years earlier I would never have revealed the Dianabol usage. It would have been disgraceful. In 1970 Sergio, Arnold, Larry and others set a new standard and I was a little guy compared to them. Doctor Michael Walzack met me on English Bay Beach in Vancouver in the summer of 1970 and we talked about bodybuilding and the scene in LA. He told me heaps of stuff about Arnold, Joe, etc., etc. He told he I had a good physique and could be a Mr Universe with his help. All it would take was 6 months of steroids. I was more interested in my skin! I never went to LA to take up his offer. He declined to come to dinner at my house as I was married then.
Who the heck really knows what anyone did in those days? It was all hush hush for most guys and no one fessed to using gear. Even today there is a stain on having used Dianabol. Hans Gensow, who inspired me to bodybuild, was disgusted with me when he found out in 2004 at a reunion. There you are. I was around in the 1960s so the steroids were around then. Were they around in the 50s? Probably. Were steroids available in the 1940s? Most say no but who knows what happened then? Everyone is taking their stories to their graves.
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Dude i've seen your pics and your attention-starved posts. You're once again trolling for attention.
Not really bitch. The difference is when someone makes fun of me I post clips backing up my claims to shut up little whores such as yourself . Hope this helps.
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Not really bitch. The difference is when someone makes fun of me I post clips backing up my claims to shut up little whores such as yourself . Hope this helps.
Posting pics of yourself resembling an alien's no help actually. ;)
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Posting pics of yourself resembling an alien's no help actually. ;)
Monster dodging the issue which is shittalkers such as yourself not being able to back up their rants... ;)
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Made in Montana you are passionate about your subject. However, your analysis and logic leave a lot to be desired. You conclude all sorts of rubbish about insinuating and so on. That is not what I wrote. Then you accuse me of saying Steve used steroids, etc. I said no such thing. I always give credit for excellence and effort. However, as a philosopher and being scientifically minded I keep an open mind about what went on in our pastime through the decades. I wonder when bodybuilding became a sham because it was long before I started lifting weights.
No wonder they don't allow discussions about steroids on Ironage. It is pointless to debate things we cannot prove about matters of fact that happened or didn't happen long ago. Keep posting photos of Steve because those are always appreciated.
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Just got back. I don't care what anyone says about Steve Reeves. He is one of my idols and I think he was awesome. I really don't think he took roids and if he did it was very very minimal and for a short time. He had a great body and looked good. I had some chances to meet him and never did. I wish I had.
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drugs..no drugs..if his family member says he wasn't on..then you'd have to believe him over some schlub bodybuilders friend of a friend evidence..either way..the guy was blessed unlike some of the turds that permeate bodybuilding nowadays.
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"The greatest compliment I could ever pay any man is the way Steve made me feel the first time I ever met him; I could not stand being in the same room with him! He made me feel totally inadequate as a bodybuilder...Steve was Michelangelo’s concept of the perfectly formed man!" --Vince Gironda
Comming from Gironda, that is some very very high props! :o
I mean he even called Arnold a fat f*** to his face lol!
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Comming from Gironda, that is some very very high props! :o
I mean he even called Arnold a fat f*** to his face lol!
i can hear arnold in that thick schmeisser accent...
what do you mean fat?! i no fat...
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i can hear arnold in that thick schmeisser accent...
what do you mean fat?! i no fat...
lol He sure got pissed off at Gironda! ;D
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M in M,
Did Reeves follow a different diet pre-contest, or is true the guys just entered shows whenever without specific prep?
Did he do serratus specific work? He had very defined and developed, deep serratus!
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...ADD TO THAT D-BOL FROM DR ZIEGLER.....RAW TEST...AND EVERYTHING HE COULD FUCKING GET HIS HANDS ON....STOP MISLEADING YOUNG KIDS....WHY ARE U HERE ANYWAY?....
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...ADD TO THAT D-BOL FROM DR ZIEGLER.....RAW TEST...AND EVERYTHING HE COULD FUCKING GET HIS HANDS ON....STOP MISLEADING YOUNG KIDS....WHY ARE U HERE ANYWAY?....
Keith do we need this trolling on here?
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MonMadeTana you should have lived when they had the inquisition. You would have been very effective. The truth is out there somewhere buried with those who are now gone.
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Keith do we need this trolling on here?
U ARE JUST PLAIN STUPID....KEITH KNOWS THAT REEVES WAS AS NATURAL AS SHAWN RAY ...AND IT DOESN'T DETRACT FROM EITHER ONE'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS BUT WE NEED TO STOP HAVING SOME TEARY EYED FANS ASSUME THAT OUR HEROES WERE CLEAN BECAUSE THEY SAID SO....G4P AND ROIDS WERE SINNONIMOUS WITH BB SINCE THE WEIDERS GOT INTO IT...
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Sevastase, if Dr. Zieglar was giving people in WWII steroids as Vince suggests, he skipped over Steve because everyone knows Steve came back over 20 lbs. weaker and smaller. When Ed Yarrick saw Steve when he came back from the war and walked into his physical culture studio, he said, "You look great. Who's your undertaker?" It took work to get back what he lost in size and strength. But he did it while everyone watched. Thank you Vince for teaching your disciples like sevastase to preach b.s. He didn't come up with that one on his own. That's what I was talking about. Unfair and not honest. Sevastase...thanks a lot for pointless unneccesary rudeness. You could have been cool and said, here's what I like about Steve...or here's what I question...instead of attacks that aren't warranted...or fair. "Steve took this drug and that one"...means nothing coming from people who didn't know him...and have no logic or proof to back it. Rude and unnecessary too.
U ARE RIGHT ...I DO NOT NOW FOR SURE...BUT WHAT I DO KNOW FOR SURE IS : U DO NOT GET TO REEVES SIZE AND BODYFAT LEVEL WITH JUST FOOD AND LIVER TABLETS ..IT TAKES A LOT MORE.....IT TAKES DBOL, TEST AS IN TABLETS, AND WHATEVER WAS AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME?.....LIKE GH15 SAID...HE EXPERIMENTED....ALOT...T HAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT...I WAS A BB....AND I REALLY LIKE STEVE...HOWEVER I HAVE TO SET U STRAIGHT ON THIS ONE...YOUR INSIGHT ON HIM IS EXCELLENT AND I ENJOY YOUR POSTS . HOWEVER MR. REEVES BUILT HIS BODY DIFFERENTLY THAN HOW IT WAS ADVERTISED AT THE TIME BECAUSE MR WEIDER WANTED HIM AS THEIR POSTERBOY....SO " HORMONES AND SUCH BUILT HIM PLUS TONS OF FOOD " AND HE WAS ADVERTISED AS THE PICTURE OF HEALTH WHICH IN A WAY HE WAS...IS THE SAME OLD STORY...REEVES. ARNOLD, HANEY, COLEMAN, ....HORMONES PLUS FOOD BUILDS THEM SO THEY CAN SELL A LOT OF PROTEIN POWDERS..."
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I agree with that in regards to Arnold, Columbo and some of the rest from the 60s...70s on. Weider paid for their apartment, car, extra spending money and for them to come to the U.S.
Steve was not paid anything from Weider but a small fee for posing/pictures; he was given nothing else from Weider. No food or supplements or drugs. In fact, Steve had to borrow money from friends to pay for traveling and fees to compete in the Mr. America contest. There was no Mr. Olympia contest in 1947. I know Steve was a natural because I know people who've tried his training program and had great/similiar results...and I have too. He really wasn't that unbelievably large...but his bone structure and frame were unusual and well as his ability to hit every body part neglecting nothing. Flawless.
Have a great weekend everyone.
::)
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MinM. Your mind will torment you relentlessly because you assess life like those who believe in intelligent design. Your theory may or may not be true. What you do is insist it must be true and then react to everyone else as if they are blasphemous.
I curse the day steroids and other crap were introduced into bodybuilding because the sport has been a sham ever since. Even the Ironage site is a sham because most of those guys from the supposed Ironage were users. Can you imagine if we ignored drugs when referring to Olympic athletes? The sad thing nowadays is that we can't be sure athletes are clean or that they used in their training for contests.
When exactly, was the start of all these chemicals? Maybe we should do a history journey starting with Dr John Z and go from there. Statements were made about John developing some drugs to help wounded soldiers recover from burns, etc., during WWII. Is this true and what exactly did he develop or give those patients? When did the muscleheads experiment with those 'growth' agents? If we knew that we could shed some light on this whole issue and then have a background that we can use to set the scene when we discuss individuals.
People who make statements about what certain individuals did when they have no knowledge at all are no better than Made in Montana. That isn't science. What M in M ignores is that everyone in this discussion might be wrong about matters. Clearly, everyone cannot be correct.
If we reverse engineer drugs in bodybuilding we can state that they were definitely being used in the 1960s and most observers would 'explain' the results of the really big guys as 'steroid users'. Today we have little idea what is possible through natural training because the best bodybuilders use plenty of stuff. Even the word 'natural' hasn't been properly defined by everyone. What exactly is a drug and what a supplement? We have 'precursors' that weren't even thought about in the past.
I ask MinM to show us a time frame of when drugs were used in sport accompanied with definite evidence that certain people were using drugs. Who used what drug, for what dosage, for what length of time. It should be clear this is going to be virtually impossible and soon enough we will be conjecturing instead of proceeding like scientists. Does MinM know that the majority of research into anabolic steroids that was published in the professional journals up until at least 1980 didn't establish that steroids worked. All we had was anecdotal evidence. Go look for yourself and see. What the heck is science and what conjecture? The confusion and sloppy theories in bodybuilding have made our mirror sport a laughing stock. Every musclehead is an expert and Getbig and other forums are living proof of that claim. Is there any doubt that MinM claims to be an expert in bodybuilding?
MinM is not judge and jury about the issue of steroids in sport. He is but one enthusiast and it seems to me he has an axe to grind. He tries to cut down anyone who argues that certain champions from the distant past were stellar individuals who were 100% clean. His approach is to personally attack the person and not the argument. That is why it is fruitless to join these debates. By the end everyone is pissed off and people are charged with all sorts of crap that should be completely beyond the scope of these forums.
Here is a Google search on the history of steroids.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=the+history+of+anabolic+steroids&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
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I agree with Vince on this
Again....SR may of been natural...but unless his bones are dug up & maybe with current technology can be proved otherwise....all we can do is assume.
Alot of people keep their lives secret & personal. The only person who knew SR the best & the truth to his life is dead.
Personally...it makes no difference to me...because it's pointless debating a topic that really can't be determined 100%
The photo's are great. Just post want you want.....but realize....there's a lot of open room for open debate & discussion. There's always two sides to every story especially without Steve being here to defend himself. Just don't get your panties in a bunch over it.
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No doubt you mean well MinM but ........philosophers should be able to discuss matters in a rational fashion. I knew you would react to my posts as if they were personally attacking you. I try to debate theories and statements not the personalities of individuals. However, at times I do comment on what some people do in responses to posts I have made.
You write as if you are an expert in bodybuilding and especially concerning Steve Reeves.
There is no way to settle debates on the internet. I hope you comprehend this.
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There is no way to settle debates on the internet. I hope you comprehend this.
No, there isn't.
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Figo and I didn't have a problem debating. He told me what he thought and why...and I did the same. He came in with proof of why he believed a certain way...and I could see why he thought the way he did. He allowed me to have a response to that...which is fair. As a result, we better understand each other now and have no problem getting along. I don't know what he really thinks deep down and he's allowed to think what he wants, but he is being considerate of my position and I consider his too because of it.
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/spartacus.JPG)
My position, is that I, like many others, think Reeves was phenomenal, a genetic gift, that through hard-work, propelled himself to stardom, and even if it wasn't through bbing, he probably would have excelled at something else.
With regards to steroids, I would like to believe he was clean, as like anyone else, we need someone to look up to, especially in this day and age when we've become so cynical and judgemental, that we think any guy with muscle is on the juice.
I've got nothing against steroids nor people who use, and would have none less for Reeves neither, had he used, but a "clean" champion with a fantastic physique inspires one more, even if one takes steroids.
I started this thread to vent my frustation at people who refuse to face the reality that todays "monsters" who they dislike so much, got the drug-taking precedent from their idols. Even the site enhancing oils that get abused today were used more intelligently back in the day. I'm referring to the 70's and 80's, when the experimenting began.
As far as Reeves goes, M in M, you knew him, so I gotta respect that, I don't know anything else besides what I've read in magazines, or the factual internet evidence and theories ;D.
Did you spend much time with him, whats the age gap, when did you realize your relative was a legend in bbing?
Another thing, when is someone gonna ask if Eugene Sandow was natural...?
(http://www.mercola.com/2004/feb/18/Figure-3-Sandow.jpg)
Which, of course, begs the question, was Louis Cyr the first strongman to use Anapolon?
(http://www.ledevoir.com/2005/03/26/images/cyr_260305.jpg)
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Made in Montana. I have to say your replies to my posts leave me wondering how it is possible for anyone to interpret my words the way you do. Incredibly self-referring reactions on your part. The more I post the more you recoil and I become the monster who is attacking your precious beliefs. This is beyond a waste of time because it is going in the opposite direction to where I usually want to go.
Post more Reeves images because that is appreciated.
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If I remeber right Steve Reeves put out a book shortly before his untimely death. I would like to get it.
Steve was the personafication of perfection. When I see some of his photos I want to train, hike, chop firewood, outdoors kinda shit. He seemed like a mans man who could do it all and well. I will not debate the steriod issue on him(I doubt he used) he was a great man and a legend that should stand the test of all time.
&mode=related&search=
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I don't know why you would regret it. You have great stories and facts to share on a truly great legend. I hope you can share more with us. It is a real shame that there are not more men in this sport like Steve. I feel this sport would gain in every way if there where.
Please keep up the info line and pictures. :)
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Figo, I was born in the 70s...lived a hooterite type of existence on a ranch in Montana...didn't spend as much time with Steve as I would have liked to...thought he was God when I got a horse for my birthday...knew he was a cowboy, cattle rancher and an actor before I realized he was a bodybuilder when I saw this...
I can only imagine having an interest in bbing, and discovering my relative was the most popular bber of his era, the most symmetrical physique ever, and a standard-bearer to this day... :o
.I don't feel comfortable saying much more because I don't want people to think I mention Steve to get attention. I sent this thread to a couple of family members and a few friends of Steve. I wanted to know their opinion on some things...and don't want them to read me talking about myself in here...especially since I have not done it anywhere else...except to share some pictures with Serge on the french board for fun. I'm not really that interesting anyway. I hope you understand. If we become friends, I'll show you some pictures...if you still have interest. Not that many people know I'm related...no one probably cares. The only reason I posted was because I had to talk about Steve a little bit. I hope I don't regret it.
I speak for my fellow posters when I say, we definitely want to know more >:(!
Where else are we gonna get this kind of info? You grew up with a legend! Please share more. If anyone else has a prob, and makes this a problem, I'm sure Onlyme or Ron will sort it out. Don't take it personally, as these guys flame and insult every pro and legend on this board, even Serge :-\.
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reeves was a legend alright and deserves all due respect but tbh i couldn't care less for his physique.
unfortunately i grew up with arnold's physique saturating the movie screens and mags and, to look at steve now, all i see is a guy that pales by comparison.
all this talk of him having the perfect male physique seems a little trite, but i have no doubt that steroids have had a significant influence on my own perceptions.
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reeves was a legend alright and deserves all due respect but tbh i couldn't care less for his physique.
unfortunately i grew up with arnold's physique saturating the movie screens and mags and, to look at steve now, all i see is a guy that pales by comparison.
all this talk of him having the perfect male physique seems a little trite, but i have no doubt that steroids have had a significant influence on my own perceptions.
Steroids have definitely done that to us...
We all have different physique aspirations, obviously Arnold and peers were awesome, but Reeves was way ahead of his time.
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My position, is that I, like many others, think Reeves was phenomenal, a genetic gift, that through hard-work, propelled himself to stardom, and even if it wasn't through bbing, he probably would have excelled at something else.
With regards to steroids, I would like to believe he was clean, as like anyone else, we need someone to look up to, especially in this day and age when we've become so cynical and judgemental, that we think any guy with muscle is on the juice.
I've got nothing against steroids nor people who use, and would have none less for Reeves neither, had he used, but a "clean" champion with a fantastic physique inspires one more, even if one takes steroids.
I started this thread to vent my frustation at people who refuse to face the reality that todays "monsters" who they dislike so much, got the drug-taking precedent from their idols. Even the site enhancing oils that get abused today were used more intelligently back in the day. I'm referring to the 70's and 80's, when the experimenting began.
As far as Reeves goes, M in M, you knew him, so I gotta respect that, I don't know anything else besides what I've read in magazines, or the factual internet evidence and theories ;D.
Did you spend much time with him, whats the age gap, when did you realize your relative was a legend in bbing?
Another thing, when is someone gonna ask if Eugene Sandow was natural...?(http://www.mercola.com/2004/feb/18/Figure-3-Sandow.jpg)
Which, of course, begs the question, was Louis Cyr the first strongman to use Anapolon?(http://www.ledevoir.com/2005/03/26/images/cyr_260305.jpg)
some excellent points made Figo and MIM.
sandow obviously had an extremely well developed physique and, if it were not for the simple fact that steroids weren't available during his peak years, people would be accusing him also.
i don't know whether reeves used or not and i don't give a damn either way tbh. i never even knew the man so i am not fit to judge.
one thing i'm certain of however, he will remain one of the greatest bbers of all time.
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Thank you Eric, Figo and Beast.
Someone started this thread's topic a week or so ago, and I wrote a few comments on it: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=163234.0 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=163234.0)
It was started up in response to Reg Park's interview. I had more to write but was busy traveling. I think in regards to the discussion on that thread and this one...people have a better understanding of history the more willing they are to do the research and to know the people individually. Every man's life is a different story. To understand how life is for someone helps to know what kind of person they are and what choices they had available to them. Then it's easier to understand how they made their way through life.
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/reeves/sr131.jpg)
U are so full of it....
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It is well known that Steroids did not even hit America until Steve was retired from bodybuilding. Only an idiot would say Steve was using in the 1940's, Steroids were not even being used then for sports in any country. The first time steroids were used by the American olympic lifters was 1956, they were introduced around 1954 so everyone after that is suspect.
U are so wrong buddy..so wrong...only a retard would state what u just said....read the whole thread
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Above pic is unbelievable :o Genetics, anyone...?
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Innocent until proven guilty I say - if you guys have no proof then his natural status stands.
ok
then ronnie, cutler and markus are natural because i have no proof otherwise.
there is no actual proof either way but why do people care so much?
reeves was a great bber and those that knew him (i'm not one of them) say he was a good man too, so i'll go with that.
MIM has produced some absolutely golden narative and pics. we appreciate it tremendously and it has certainly caused me to respect the man moreso.
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markey should NEVER be compared with reeves. not even on a message board.
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Markey does look flippin good there... ;D
But looks like a bit of a scuba diver to me...
Reeves looked better many decades ago, and with todays training, supplementation and diets... he would've looked light-years ahead still.
Isn't Markey considerably shorter than Reeves?
Only 4 men can say they really followed the Reeves legacy, with albeit lesser genes, they achieved phenomenal, proportionate physiques, with classic lines whilst representing their respective eras' conditioning: Zane, Paris, Benfatto, Labrada. Milos also had amazing physique, but some disproportion, hence not quite on par.
My 2 cents, I'm sure many will disagree.
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Markey does look flippin good there... ;D
But looks like a bit of a scuba diver to me...
Reeves looked better many decades ago, and with todays training, supplementation and diets... he would've looked light-years ahead still.
Isn't Markey considerably shorter than Reeves?
Only 4 men can say they really followed the Reeves legacy, with albeit lesser genes, they achieved phenomenal, proportionate physiques, with classic lines whilst representing their respective eras' conditioning: Zane, Paris, Benfatto, Labrada. Milos also had amazing physique, but some disproportion, hence not quite on par.
My 2 cents, I'm sure many will disagree.
yes, gotta hand it to markey, he's got great legs there. i get the feeling they're a strong body part for him.
the type of hardness, seperation and detail i see there looks a little like he might have used something for that shoot.
that's the problem, after what i've seen of people who are on/off it is nearly impossible to tell these days who's using what so i couldn't care less.
markey's structure is nowhere close to reeves though. he is too short, not wide enough in lats or shoulders, too big a waist, skinny arms and, did i mention narrow as hell.
the muscle development and basic structure just isn't there. in that pic he's all legs and hardness, condition. the kind of condition that could very easily be the results of some winny, deca, clen, t3. you just never know these days and, from his posts, he does seem very insecure and widening the pics ??? can't see an insecure guy like that risking being less than his best without tech.
2c spent.
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Here is an interview where Reeves said he never took steroids, although it is well known that he did in fact use them :
http://www.drkrm.com/reeves.html (http://www.drkrm.com/reeves.html)
Speaking of Franco, I have a classic interview with him on Fox & Friends, when Arnold was thinking of running for Governor. And they asked Franco if he and Arnold used steroids and he said the following statement, word for word. "In the 70's I asked Arnold "What are these steroids that people keep talking about". Arnold got angry at me and said "Forget about that, let's just get to the Gym and TRAIN!!!" "As time went on I'm sure Arnold may have tried a little bit here and there" ::). Try not to put your fist through the computer screen in anger at the hypocrisy of that statement. So according to Franco, the subject of Steroids didn't come up until some 8-10 years into their friendship ;).
SERGIO!!!!
haha, in in reality these guys where popping pills by the handful..why wouldnt they? they where obsessed with bodybuilding, aas was cheap and legal....
im tired of hearing that they took way less in the 70s....maybe they didnt use as many different compounds...but they (arnold etc) where using loads of orals.
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It is well known that Steroids did not even hit America until Steve was retired from bodybuilding. Only an idiot would say Steve was using in the 1940's, Steroids were not even being used then for sports in any country. The first time steroids were used by the American olympic lifters was 1956, they were introduced around 1954 so everyone after that is suspect.
bullshit, they where available before that.
as for reeves using steroids...its obvious reeves had great structure and genetics...but i certainly believe he used steroids. (specially for a few movies he did in the 60s..when he looked bigger than ever)
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and this markey guy is obviously on steroids..and lots of them.....who could doubt that ::)
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Not here to join in the debate but to make a quick comment.
I have made a special thread over at Ironage (last year now), showing
pictures and commentary of Steve Reeves' ranch (Valley Center, CA);
talked to his former significant other, ranch hands, and a few others
around the area he lived. I also did the same at IronHistory. It was done
as a tribute to the man, whom I met personally in 1980 in Long Beach, CA,
at the WABBA World (Serge Nubret's organization with Sergio Oliva winner).
I was editor of Muscle Digest. In my writings with Muscular Development
and Strength & Health (via John Grimek) over the years in the 70s, I also
met and conversed with numerous Reeves' friends and fellow trainees,
including George Eiferman and Jimmy Payne.
No matter what--or who--has ever suggested Reeves took steroids are
not dealing with a deck of reality cards. The facts, photos, and common
sense are overwhelmingly stacked against that possibility. It's utter nonsense
and not worthy of debate, in my humble opinion.
I do really appreciate what Made In Montana has written about Reeves,
especially the World War II stuff, which Stunt Movie also has in his briefcase
of info.
Several days ago here in San Diego I met this old buck who happened to
be the husband of Anita Robinson, if I'm not mistaken. I happened to observe
him having this old photo touched up of this beauty from the Muscle Beach
days. We talked and come to find out that Anita and Steve were good
friends, with Steve posing for many photos with her son. He told me that
Anita thought the world of Steve, that he was an incredibly nice guy, and
every one she knew felt the same. I asked him about the possibility of
drugs, just like I have done with everyone I ever met who knew Steve. He
laughed loudly: "Are you kidding...he was a health nut...besides, the guy
didn't need stuff like that, he was already above everyone."
This old-timer promised I could speak to Anita about Steve and even get
a copy of this photo (maybe more) of Steve holding her son as a young
boy as soon as she recovers from an illness.
From the whatever-it-is-worth department.
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Not here to join in the debate but to make a quick comment.
I have made a special thread over at Ironage (last year now), showing
pictures and commentary of Steve Reeves' ranch (Valley Center, CA);
talked to his former significant other, ranch hands, and a few others
around the area he lived. I also did the same at IronHistory. It was done
as a tribute to the man, whom I met personally in 1980 in Long Beach, CA,
at the WABBA World (Serge Nubret's organization with Sergio Oliva winner).
I was editor of Muscle Digest. In my writings with Muscular Development
and Strength & Health (via John Grimek) over the years in the 70s, I also
met and conversed with numerous Reeves' friends and fellow trainees,
including George Eiferman and Jimmy Payne.
No matter what--or who--has ever suggested Reeves took steroids are
not dealing with a deck of reality cards. The facts, photos, and common
sense are overwhelmingly stacked against that possibility. It's utter nonsense
and not worthy of debate, in my humble opinion.
I do really appreciate what Made In Montana has written about Reeves,
especially the World War II stuff, which Stunt Movie also has in his briefcase
of info.
Several days ago here in San Diego I met this old buck who happened to
be the husband of Anita Robinson, if I'm not mistaken. I happened to observe
him having this old photo touched up of this beauty from the Muscle Beach
days. We talked and come to find out that Anita and Steve were good
friends, with Steve posing for many photos with her son. He told me that
Anita thought the world of Steve, that he was an incredibly nice guy, and
every one she knew felt the same. I asked him about the possibility of
drugs, just like I have done with everyone I ever met who knew Steve. He
laughed loudly: "Are you kidding...he was a health nut...besides, the guy
didn't need stuff like that, he was already above everyone."
This old-timer promised I could speak to Anita about Steve and even get
a copy of this photo (maybe more) of Steve holding her son as a young
boy as soon as she recovers from an illness.
From the whatever-it-is-worth department.
thanks jay, reeves was great back in his day and from what i have read a nice guy.
but the above is certainly not proof of anything. my opinion is that reeves built a great body without drugs (see pics from when he was 15..he had amazing development already then) but that he later used drugs...also i think he used when he was filming movies in late 50s..early 60s.
reeves would obviously not go around telling people that he used drugs..but the human mind is constructed in such a way thay you always wanna improve and get better, specially when your obsessed with your body as reeves was. (and all elite bodybuilders are)
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Not here to join in the debate but to make a quick comment.
I have made a special thread over at Ironage (last year now), showing
pictures and commentary of Steve Reeves' ranch (Valley Center, CA);
talked to his former significant other, ranch hands, and a few others
around the area he lived. I also did the same at IronHistory. It was done
as a tribute to the man, whom I met personally in 1980 in Long Beach, CA,
at the WABBA World (Serge Nubret's organization with Sergio Oliva winner).
I was editor of Muscle Digest. In my writings with Muscular Development
and Strength & Health (via John Grimek) over the years in the 70s, I also
met and conversed with numerous Reeves' friends and fellow trainees,
including George Eiferman and Jimmy Payne.
No matter what--or who--has ever suggested Reeves took steroids are
not dealing with a deck of reality cards. The facts, photos, and common
sense are overwhelmingly stacked against that possibility. It's utter nonsense
and not worthy of debate, in my humble opinion.
I do really appreciate what Made In Montana has written about Reeves,
especially the World War II stuff, which Stunt Movie also has in his briefcase
of info.
Several days ago here in San Diego I met this old buck who happened to
be the husband of Anita Robinson, if I'm not mistaken. I happened to observe
him having this old photo touched up of this beauty from the Muscle Beach
days. We talked and come to find out that Anita and Steve were good
friends, with Steve posing for many photos with her son. He told me that
Anita thought the world of Steve, that he was an incredibly nice guy, and
every one she knew felt the same. I asked him about the possibility of
drugs, just like I have done with everyone I ever met who knew Steve. He
laughed loudly: "Are you kidding...he was a health nut...besides, the guy
didn't need stuff like that, he was already above everyone."
This old-timer promised I could speak to Anita about Steve and even get
a copy of this photo (maybe more) of Steve holding her son as a young
boy as soon as she recovers from an illness.
From the whatever-it-is-worth department.
I respect your oppinion but just like made in montana you are trying to sell cucumbers to gardeners.....read what gh15 outlined for everyone about reeves.
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there will always be doubt....
unless his body is dug up & maybe some tests run.
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I respect your oppinion but just like made in montana you are trying to sell cucumbers to gardeners.....read what gh15 outlined for everyone about reeves.
I havent been around here in a while but unless something has changed G15 still hasnt come out to tell us who he is an until he does hes info is no more credible than anyone elses. judging from what ive read about the history of gear and the early photos I would have to say with out a doubt Steve was natural. He was slapped together in pictures during his teen years and his body didnt change except for putting on some mass. I started lifting at 168lbs and im 228lbs now 15 years later. Ive never used any drugs or supplements other than some whey or egg protein. Im sure plenty of retards that look like they have never touched a weight would say ive done some sauce but thats fine by me. Anyway, tons of old timers said Reeves was natural some later guys say he wasnt. I for one follow the creedo believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see and you'll never go wrong. Sorry Seva, G15s info is no more valid than me saying Steve was natural.
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I havent been around here in a while but unless something has changed G15 still hasnt come out to tell us who he is an until he does hes info is no more credible than anyone elses. judging from what ive read about the history of gear and the early photos I would have to say with out a doubt Steve was natural. He was slapped together in pictures during his teen years and his body didnt change except for putting on some mass. I started lifting at 168lbs and im 228lbs now 15 years later. Ive never used any drugs or supplements other than some whey or egg protein. Im sure plenty of retards that look like they have never touched a weight would say ive done some sauce but thats fine by me. Anyway, tons of old timers said Reeves was natural some later guys say he wasnt. I for one follow the creedo believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see and you'll never go wrong. Sorry Seva, G15s info is no more valid than me saying Steve was natural.
::) if u cannot understand why gh15 cannot reveal his identity u need to find another hobby . I just read and paste what he posts because it's FREE. ;)
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::) if u cannot understand why gh15 cannot reveal his identity u need to find another hobby . I just read and paste what he posts because it's FREE. ;)
Sorry dude , he was challenged to come up with some proof that he was in the "know" and he couldnt. He said Ron knew who he was and could verify he was the man- Ron did not. Besides if he had a sack he wouldnt hide whom he is. Lee Priest has been totally open about his use, has he not?? Much like you G15 could be some joker with cut and paste skills. As of yet he hasnt come up with a missing link to prove he knows anything secret. I think many lifters with good genetics could reproduce what Reeves did with out gear. I will have to say hes drug free but my opinion is just that.
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Thank you very much, Jay...more than words can say. You are a gentleman and a good human being. When people come forward with no proof and only rude speculative comments with no appreciation whatsoever for Steve...trying to sell something false about who he was when some of us know better...that tells more about the person running him down who never knew him, than it ever says anything about Steve Reeves. It's rude when people come in with no proof and make suggestive drug use comments that are false...and it's wrong too. One need only to look at the bone structure to see what's going on...
Some people skip over what I wrote, don't care to learn much and prove it with their comments, but some like Figo are fair and want to know the truth. You take the time and consideration to care, Jay, and you show respect...and Lord Humungous, you too. There are others too...and somewhere...Steve appreciates it. I fully believe he lives on still...and I respect him and his memory just the same as if he were in this conversation here with us. The body of The Shape lives on in our memories...his Spirit Lives on forever...
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/stevesuto.JPG)
epic naiveness
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epic naiveness
Epic, get a clue
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Epic stupidity, slaveboy (sorry, man...), but what else can I say.
Respect is something younger dudes are in sorry supply of, but then that's
the sign of the (sorry) times. All this negative nonsense about Reeves is a
pathetic testament to the cop-out that (nearly) suggests ANY and ALL
bodybuilders of any consequence surely took drugs (steroids). It's actually
beyond pathetic.
Try and use philosophy as the Greeks initiated, with reason, logic, and
deduction.
Get the I-pods out of your sorry asses and get a life. Try and contribute
something to this world and humanity with decency and common sense.
Using your common sense and deduction is like saying an apple came from
an orange seed.
Slaveboy--or anyone else in that persuasion--with all the respect I can
muster: Shut your piehole and go devour a Hercules (Reeves) movie along
with some book on philosophy...I think they may have them at Borders with
the cartoon pop-ups in the children's section.
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Epic, get a clue
hahah continued epic naiveness. ::)
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Epic stupidity, slaveboy (sorry, man...), but what else can I say.
Respect is something younger dudes are in sorry supply of, but then that's
the sign of the (sorry) times. All this negative nonsense about Reeves is a
pathetic testament to the cop-out that (nearly) suggests ANY and ALL
bodybuilders of any consequence surely took drugs (steroids). It's actually
beyond pathetic.
Try and use philosophy as the Greeks initiated, with reason, logic, and
deduction.
Get the I-pods out of your sorry asses and get a life. Try and contribute
something to this world and humanity with decency and common sense.
Using your common sense and deduction is like saying an apple came from
an orange seed.
Slaveboy--or anyone else in that persuasion--with all the respect I can
muster: Shut your piehole and go devour a Hercules (Reeves) movie along
with some book on philosophy...I think they may have them at Borders with
the cartoon pop-ups in the children's section.
do you draw these kind of conclusions about everyone that doesnt agree with your almost obsessed infatuation with mr reeves? ;D
i have seen most of his movies, and i have studied philosophy.
sad to say philosophy doesnt have an answer to the question if mr reeves used drugs.
i agree that you can look very good without using steroids. but when it comes to reeves its not a matter of how he looked its a matter of how the obsessed bodybuilders mind works.
all bodybuilders lie...even reeves who was a very insecure person who def tried aas....but like i said before he had very very good natural talent too.
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do you draw these kind of conclusions about everyone that doesnt agree with your almost obsessed infatuation with mr reeves? ;D
i have seen most of his movies, and i have studied philosophy.
sad to say philosophy doesnt have an answer to question if mr reeves used drugs.
i agree that you can look very good without using steroids. but when it comes to reeves its not a matter of how he looked its a matter of how the obsessed bodybuilders mind works.
all bodybuilders lie...even reeves who was a very insecure person who def tried aas....but like i said before he had very very good natural talent too.
this is a very good point and i have been around the block with jay, stunt and others before about this.
when reeves was making his movies steroids were well known in the bodybuilding world and were considered a health tonic if anything. the secret weapon of the greatest strength athletes in the world and, of course, bbers.
it is certainly possible that reeves used steroids during his career, simply because they were available. the best athletes and bbers were most definitely kept in the loop and reeves was THE best and most famous bber.
reeves gets the same kind of obsessed old timer hero worship that john wayne got. they are worshipped as gods by these people who resent (see jay's post above) the modern world and pine for the perfect days of yesteryear where everything was apparently warm apple pie and blue berries. ffs even the world wars which killed billions worldwide are romanticised as an 'adventure with male bonding and heroes'.
humans have always done it and they probably always will, but factual retrospect is the darnedest thing.
john wayne was a closet bisexual that had a preferance for young boys and
reeves took whatever he had to take to stay on top, remaining true to his narcisistic nature to the very end.
now build a bridge already. ::)
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;D Damn, there's a lot more psychology in your business that everyday folks will ever know.
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hahah continued epic naiveness. ::)
Epic assumptions without soild proof.
In america we are innocent until proven guilty, sorry cat, no smoking gun linking Reeves to anything other than the gym.
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Epic assumptions without soild proof.
In america we are innocent until proven guilty, sorry cat, no smoking gun linking Reeves to anything other than the gym.
well, since nobody got any proof about cutler's 'drug cycles' we better give provide him the same rights and state that jay cutler has never taken bbing drugs.
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;D Damn, there's a lot more psychology in your business that everyday folks will ever know.
psychology is everything in my business my friend, but actions speak louder than words so hopefully it all comes together in a few weeks. ;D
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Epic assumptions without soild proof.
In america we are innocent until proven guilty, sorry cat, no smoking gun linking Reeves to anything other than the gym.
haha epic thinking this is a court case.
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Agree with me or not but here's how it went with Reeves and his era regarding the steroid topic in question.
I lived it and knew Steve personally. I grew up in San Francisco and he was living across the Bay and every summer most every kid in the Bay Area would gather in a small spot on the Russian River called "Rio Nido". That was 72 miles north of San Francisco on a lazy river among some damn impressive Redwoods.
Rio Nido was the place to be during the summer months back then and the Friday and Saturday night dances drew every kid from the Bay Area if he/she had a car or a wayward thumb to hitch a ride. (I even roller skated up there once but only made it half way before my wooden wheels busted and I had to resort to a ride with some inebriated sailors who stopped at every road-side tavern along the way, leaving me in the car cause I was too young to have a beer.)
Anyway, Rio Nido was the place where Steve spend a few summer weekends and a few of us got to know him well.
Back then the world was nothing like it is today. And that goes for the kids of those days too. Drugs were taboo without exception. Our "drug" of choice and occasional availability was beer and wine. And for most of us, two glasses of either would do the trick and keep the party rolling!
Steve drank neither. Ever!
For the most part bodybuilders were an unknown entity unless one found himself looking at some pretty sleezy magazines in less than respectable magazine stands on Market or Powell Streets in San Francisco. And the general thought among those "in the know" when it came to physical fitness was that excessive muscle would make you "musclebound" and unable to compete in sporting endeavors. So most of us kids in Rio Nido knew Steve as a damn impressive looking athlete with a great build and a shy and non-agressive attitude who didn't drink or party like the majority of the rest of us did on summer weekends among the Rio Nido redwoods and jam-packed dance-hall.
One Sunday morning while we were spending the summer in Rio Nido (my grandmother had a sumer home there) I read a four column article about Steve in an Oakland newspaper. I don't recall why the article was published but I do recall that it was his mother who was being interviewed and she spoke highly about her son. "He was very healthy and never had a cold or a cavity!"
And that's about all I can recall about that Oakland article.
After one summer in the mid 50's, we lost personal contact with Steve but someone always managed to keep us abreast of his activities ...... TV work on the Ralph Edwards Show and Burns and Allen, stage work in Kismit and the possibility of playing l'il Abner on Broadway, movies - Jailbait and Athena (in his best shape), and eventually Hercules.
Much later I caught up with Steve and we talked for a couple of hours about our teen age past in Northern California and his gradual success throughout the world. Most of that conversation centered arounnd the present day condition of the sport of bodybuilding which upset him quite a bit.
continued ... heading to the gym .....
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good stuff.
keep it coming stunt... :)
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they are worshipped as gods by these people who resent (see jay's post above) the modern world and pine for the perfect days of yesteryear where everything was apparently warm apple pie and blue berries. ffs even the world wars which killed billions worldwide are romanticised as an 'adventure with male bonding and heroes'.
humans have always done it and they probably always will, but factual retrospect is the darnedest thing.
That is the reason I started this thread, not to debate over nor denigrate anyone, including Reeves' memory.
Beast8692 put it very well. People romanticize far too much about the old days, when in fact some of these "idols" were some seriously disturbed people that would make our days scourge of society look like saints.
There were drugs in the old days, the guys used them. Only reason they didnt advance to todays extremes, is because they didnt know they could, nor know how, and the drugs became more extreme too. If you look back to the early 80's, two blocky structure individuals, that were known for their size to frame ratio, were Belknap and Fox, and already back then their waists were spilling over a bit, only thing is, Weider mags were very good at selecting and printing the right pics only in order to preserve their ideal image. The bbing champs of the 70's and 80's like everyone else at time, also took mind altering substances, they did g4p, they had criminal records, they sodomized small big-eyed furry animals... you get my point.
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john wayne was a closet bisexual that had a preferance for young boys and
Damn! :o :'( :-\ :-[ :-X
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That is the reason I started this thread, not to debate over nor denigrate anyone, including Reeves' memory.
Beast8692 put it very well. People romanticize far too much about the old days, when in fact some of these "idols" were some seriously disturbed people that would make our days scourge of society look like saints.
There were drugs in the old days, the guys used them. Only reason they didnt advance to todays extremes, is because they didnt know they could, nor know how, and the drugs became more extreme too. If you look back to the early 80's, two blocky structure individuals, that were known for their size to frame ratio, were Belknap and Fox, and already back then their waists were spilling over a bit, only thing is, Weider mags were very good at selecting and printing the right pics only in order to preserve their ideal image. The bbing champs of the 70's and 80's like everyone else at time, also took mind altering substances, they did g4p, they had criminal records, they sodomized small big-eyed furry animals... you get my point.
very true, but you got to admit stunt does type some very good stories. you never hear a bad word about anyone/anything from that era. even the wars are romanticised.
as far as his claims of kids never using drugs. lmfao, EVERYONE USED DRUGS. hell, there was cocaine in coca cola ffs. you could go sit in a chinese den and use smack. there was morphine and cocaine in health tonics and president kennedy used a concoction of amphetamines, steroids and cocaine during the cuban missile crisis.
wait another 60 years and people will be talking about how jay cutler drank warm milk and ate brussel sprouts and ronnie was a fine upstanding police officer that said no to drugs and yes to grits and bbq sauce. ::)
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A quick note here before I head off .........
Don't forget - I'm talking 40's and 50's here and a bit of the early 60's and I was there in the thick of it the entire time and I have absolutely no reason to "glorify" anyone involved in this somewhat "unglorifiable" world of bodybuilding.
One BIG piont I'm trying to stress here that seems to go unnoticed is the fact that the 40's and the 50's were so much different from the times that followed and some of you appear to be looking at those early years of the sport through present day, non-rose colored, designer glasses.
For instance ... back then the only ones who could afford going to Europe for "age treatment sessions" (steroids, I assume) were the top notched movie stars whose youthful appearance on the silver screen produced thousands of dollars for the major movie studios - milllion dollar blockbusters were relatively unheard of back then. They had to age well to keep their status. And that required yearly trips to far off places. And major bundles of cash!
No matter what some of us think on here, in the 50's Steroids were not a major issue inside of and outside of local inner city Y's and the kids who frequented them on a daily basis. They were almost an unknown factor, but a remote possibility in war torn areas throughout Germany and further east.
Those who had the "inside scoop" said that they did exist but they didn't work. Some said that they did work but only because you THOUGHT they did (Placebo effect). Others said that if they worked, they'd only make you musclebound and unable to compete in your chosen athletic endeavor to your best advantage.
And the AMA officially stated that steroids absolutely do not work! (But they said it useing more precise medical terminology.)
And all this information and bullshit eventually filtered down to the dark and dank downtown Y basements where muscleheadz and "gymrats" usually gathered three times a week to hit the bags, throw medicine balls, pull roped iron pullies hanging on a wall, juggle bowling pins, and shake their stomachs in belted vibrating machines. Followed by a half hour's sweat in a stinking steamroom and various claims of strength.
Meanwhile on the other side of the Bay, a young kid by the name of Steve was hanging upside down from a pullup bar doing lat pulls and ab squeezes and curls and benches and squats and making impressive gains because he was born with the ability to do so. (Heredity was an unknown word among the "rats" back then!)
He heard the same shit we did about little pills that would produce loads of strength and eventual muscle, but .......
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wait another 60 years and people will be talking about how jay cutler drank warm milk and ate brussel sprouts and ronnie was a fine upstanding police officer that said no to drugs and yes to grits and bbq sauce. ::)
Well, actually, besides the hormones, they appear to lead very boring, clean lifestyles. I would venture to say cleaner than the Ironage guys, due to their focused lives centered around a goal.
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Agree with me or not but here's how it went with Reeves and his era regarding the steroid topic in question.
I lived it and knew Steve personally. I grew up in San Francisco and he was living across the Bay and every summer most every kid in the Bay Area would gather in a small spot on the Russian River called "Rio Nido". That was 72 miles north of San Francisco on a lazy river among some damn impressive Redwoods.
Rio Nido was the place to be during the summer months back then and the Friday and Saturday night dances drew every kid from the Bay Area if he/she had a car or a wayward thumb to hitch a ride. (I even roller skated up there once but only made it half way before my wooden wheels busted and I had to resort to a ride with some inebriated sailors who stopped at every road-side tavern along the way, leaving me in the car cause I was too young to have a beer.)
Anyway, Rio Nido was the place where Steve spend a few summer weekends and a few of us got to know him well.
Back then the world was nothing like it is today. And that goes for the kids of those days too. Drugs were taboo without exception. Our "drug" of choice and occasional availability was beer and wine. And for most of us, two glasses of either would do the trick and keep the party rolling!
Steve drank neither. Ever!
For the most part bodybuilders were an unknown entity unless one found himself looking at some pretty sleezy magazines in less than respectable magazine stands on Market or Powell Streets in San Francisco. And the general thought among those "in the know" when it came to physical fitness was that excessive muscle would make you "musclebound" and unable to compete in sporting endeavors. So most of us kids in Rio Nido knew Steve as a damn impressive looking athlete with a great build and a shy and non-agressive attitude who didn't drink or party like the majority of the rest of us did on summer weekends among the Rio Nido redwoods and jam-packed dance-hall.
One Sunday morning while we were spending the summer in Rio Nido (my grandmother had a sumer home there) I read a four column article about Steve in an Oakland newspaper. I don't recall why the article was published but I do recall that it was his mother who was being interviewed and she spoke highly about her son. "He was very healthy and never had a cold or a cavity!"
And that's about all I can recall about that Oakland article.
After one summer in the mid 50's, we lost personal contact with Steve but someone always managed to keep us abreast of his activities ...... TV work on the Ralph Edwards Show and Burns and Allen, stage work in Kismit and the possibility of playing l'il Abner on Broadway, movies - Jailbait and Athena (in his best shape), and eventually Hercules.
Much later I caught up with Steve and we talked for a couple of hours about our teen age past in Northern California and his gradual success throughout the world. Most of that conversation centered arounnd the present day condition of the sport of bodybuilding which upset him quite a bit.
continued ... heading to the gym .....
all you said in that post actually indicates steve had a dark side, which inluded letting older gay men touch him, and him using steroids.
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StuntMovie, you may have missed your calling. Your a good writer.
Lets hear some more.
I think that most people simply cant handle the truth about their sports heros.
Fact is they are the best of the best to start, and many many of them have slightly twisted personalities, driven to extremes to allways be even better.
When your competing against those w/ a "edge", Its only NATURAL to at least match it.
Shit, the kind of obsessive personality it takes to get to the top will accept NO Limit.
Its a challenge.
I'm nothing special myself. I'm a busted up 46 yr old const worker, Iron pumper. If I can handle a bucket full of steroid, what ya think professional athletes use? Steve could be either way. I dont see it as denigrating him
either way. Lying about the subject is just standard.
IF he did Some Deca and Dbol tabs and test and HCG it dont diminish his early achievements one little bit IMO.
The whole Steroid "controversy" revolves around a bunch of frustrated Natural lifters too chicken shit to
do what it takes to actually approach their goals and true physical ideal.
SO, they create a steroid boogie man excuse for their shortcomings. ;D
If only they took steroids, they to would look like a IFBB Pro ::).
What a joke that is.
Bunch of chicken Wana-be juicers.
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well, since nobody got any proof about cutler's 'drug cycles' we better give provide him the same rights and state that jay cutler has never taken bbing drugs.
Great logic Sherlock, the whole jist of what I was saying that any motivated lifter with very good genetics could achieve what Steve Reeves did.
haha epic thinking this is a court case.
Epic making accusations with out proof.
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Interesting observations and comments, Trab, but I beg to differ with ya and will elaborate on that in a future posting. Right now I want to finish up on my ancient Steve recollections before they are completely forgotten due to a wiltering of my FTOP lobes. (Something I never forgot from Psyche 1A).
Let me just say here that lying about steroids and other topics of interest was definitely not STANDARD back in those days. There was no reason to lie about steroid use back then. There was nothing illegal about useing roids. Later and once roid use became somewhat common and acceptable in the early 60's, no one cared or even attempted to keep the subject under wraps unless they were introduced to a special "cocktail" (decca and anavar?) and planned to use it to overcome the competition.
And it took a few years more to come to the conclusion that "more was better" and the Gurus appeared on the scene.
Enuff on that subject.... Back to that kid over in the Oakland area who was training at Yarick's and getting lots of attention whenever he appeared in public.
Once again - back then drug usage was anathema and severly looked down upon and no sensible teenage ever gave a thought to such things as MJ or prescription drugs. The worst I can recall was cooking a banana peel in the oven to dry it and roll it into something that resembled a "joint" and smoke it to get a buzz. Another was an asperin and a Coca Cola.
We tired both the above without noticeable results and soon simply got one or two of the older looking buds to do his best to buy a six-pack of beer and a jug of wine from Black or Chinese liquor store owners in the Filmore district or further down in Chinatown. Sometimes we were successful, but most times we were simply embarrassed by the laughter of everyone of age in that liquor store.
Getting laughed out of a liquor store was not a happy feeling way back then.
The only people doing MJ and other drugs were playing sax or drums in dark San Francisco nightclubs or singing the Blues
at upright pianos in less than friendly neighborhood taverns and no respectable teenager ever entered those "dens of inequity". Even the worst of us refused to take that step. ANd I personally knew the worse of the worst because I fit that category through most of my teen age years.
But even so, and looking back now, it appears that we still had one or both feet in the Victorian age.
Even movies such as "The Outlaw" and "The Moon is Blue" were strictly verboten as they were claimed to be morally corrupt.
But changes were on the horizon and it started with the Hippies and some pretty foolish poetry and dirty coffee houses! And shortly thereafter the whole "Victorian world" fell apart dragging the majority of us into unknown territory.
Steve and those in his age group grew up in that old style Victorian atmosphere when "right" was clearly defined and most everyone walked the straight and narrow mainly because there was no other "path" to follow. No one was there to lead us astray!
Not just yet, anyway!
Fights were common because we were expected to fight back when hit by a well thrown fist and fight even harder when one's good name was smeared in public. And it got even worse when someone said anyting offensive about the girl you were presently dating. True or false - it made no difference.
Chivelry was still alive but fading fast and it was hard to see it happening.
But now, looking back, it's evident that times were really very different wayback then - just a few steps away from when gentlemen dueled with pistols at dawn and men never smoked in the presence of ladies.
Steve was actually one of the better of the "good Victorian type guys". The strong and silent type who didn't party much at all. Never drank! Never smoked! Never had a cold! Never had a cavity! And even got his shit kicked out a couple of times in fights that I'll always claim were less than fair.
Continued ....
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OK, so I hope you believe me about times being somewhat "victorian" when Steve was in his teenage years and that Steve was really one of the good guys in this relatively responsible world of Victorian values.
Back then I was strong, but unlike Steve, I was not silent. I partied and drank and smoked pretty consistantly. And I had my share of colds and cavities.
I hate to admit it but I wasn't too much like Steve at all but I think I trained my butt off just as hard and I can honestly state with lots of pride that Steve came to watch me train one time in a dungeon in downtown SF (Golden Gate Avenue)called American Health Studios. That's an honest fact that I'll explain later.
And I never did get the shit kicked out of me in a fight ... fair or otherwise.
And even though I was just about Steve's complete opposite, I never gave a thought to an involvement with MJ or drugs of any sort at all - just those asperins in Coca Colas to be truthful with ya all.
Those kinds of drug thoughts were yet to be in our vocabulary. Even the worst of us were too tied up in our Victorian upbringing to step beyond those bounds.
So... I am entirely convinced that Steve never got involved with roids in any manner whatsoever.
And I can further attest to the fact that he was deeply saddened while we discussed this subject during a three hour limousine sightseeing tour around the island of Oahu in Hawaii He never saw those beautiful sites because he was too involved expressing his personal feelings about the use of roids and how that useage was ruining the world of bodybuilding.
Thanks for listening. Sorry for the long post but these are things I had to say in honor of a great person who made his personal mark on the world of bodybuilding like no one else ever has or probably ever will do.
And if you knew the man and the times in lived in, I am sure that your would certainly agree.
If you judge a man of the 50's by the standards of today, you'll cetainly miss your mark.
Try shooting from a shorter distance.
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but because he was so tall and his bone structure and frame was very large with uncommonly broad shoulders/back...people have to find a way to say it's not possible to put muscle on that and call it natural. You could carve him clean to the bone and his skeleton is still larger than many on steroids. That's where the jealousy comes in...and some have a hard time accepting that genetics, which is uncontrollable and largely unfair at times, give some an edge...and others a disadvantage. Some will even say bad things about Steve that aren't true just to make themselves feel better and their intentions are obvious, but for those who knew Steve...it doesn't matter what anyone says. Steve was honest, solid, healthy and he knew how to train and eat. Period.
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/HI.JPG)
If you cant beat them or join them, shoot 'em down. Whatever makes them sleep better at night, MinM...
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I appreciate the consideration and fairness you and some of the guys here have for Steve. You guys back in the 40s had no special advantages...
Oh, they had some advantages....
That being they only had basic equipment and natural food.
The frauds had not arrived and turned it into big money biz, selling worthless bullshit "supplements", preaching
insane diet and training methods, gyms full of Shiny equipment taht is largely inferior to BB's and DB's.
And they also benefited by not having todays widespread belief that its pointless to even START training w/ out drugs.
(And massive doses at that)
But, its rather gut turning to have people think they know the intimate character of their "Star" Hero's.
They are human, and unless your family, we dont have a clue. I know MANY "Pillars" of my community that are outright
pieces of shit when it comes down to it.
I'm not putting down Steve, but this Glorification bit of stars allways makes me a bit queasy.
Put him in perspective, a early body builder w/ a great build. Going on about Bone structure etc is kind of funny.
If we put Steve's Skeleton next to Mr Rhule or some others today, there be no compare.
Yeah, I think BBing today is not a pretty sight anymore when we crown Jay king, but still, Reves next to him is like a
1950's race car compared to Ferrari's latest FI ride.
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Great logic Sherlock, the whole jist of what I was saying that any motivated lifter with very good genetics could achieve what Steve Reeves did.
Epic making accusations with out proof.
haha monster blue eyed sentimentality.
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If Steve had been 5'4"...no matter how wide he was, no one would be in here contemplating whether or not he did drugs because his overall size would be not that remarkable...but because he was so tall and his bone structure and frame was very large with uncommonly broad shoulders/back...people have to find a way to say it's not possible to put muscle on that and call it natural. You could carve him clean to the bone and his skeleton is still larger than many on steroids. That's where the jealousy comes in...and some have a hard time accepting that genetics, which is uncontrollable and largely unfair at times, give some an edge...and others a disadvantage. Some will even say bad things about Steve that aren't true just to make themselves feel better and their intentions are obvious, but for those who knew Steve...it doesn't matter what anyone says. Steve was honest, solid, healthy and he knew how to train and eat. Period.
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/HI.JPG)
it has nothing to do with jealousy or thinking that reeves physqiue cant be attained without drugs...as i already said.
it has to do with the mindset of a obsessed narcissistic person such as reeves.
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Made in Montana, Where did you get that picture? That was taken on the North Shore of Oahu (now a Boy Scout camp) as far as I can recall and I have one taken within minutes of that one with a relaxed Steve looking down the beach.
Are you the fan of Steve's who lives or used to live in Las Vegas?
That's George Eifferman on the far left. Other guy looks like Mickey H. but that's definitely not Tommy Kono (someone here at the house taking a guess) whom I believe lived in Sacramento around that time. (Not sure about that though!)
A few years before George passed away, he and his wife presented me with a Gold Eifferman Medallion. While George placed it around my neck, his wife leaned into my ear and said, "George is real selective on whom he gives these to and you've certainly deserved it". I've received combat metals where words were not appreciated as much as hers.
Sorry but I forgot the ladie's name in that photo above.
Thanks for reading this stuff, Montana. And others too.
There's a lot of BB history out there that should be written down before us old timers head to Greener Pastures. Some stuff I gotta with-hold (so I've been warned). Maybe one day I'll "braven up" and shoot the works.
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haha monster blue eyed sentimentality.
Classic case of being nailed ::)
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Made in Montana, Where did you get that picture? That was taken on the North Shore of Oahu (now a Boy Scout camp) as far as I can recall and I have one taken within minutes of that one with a relaxed Steve looking down the beach.
Stuntmovie, that's Les and Pudgy Stockton with Steve and George and a Hawaiian guy in the spring of 1949. They took part in two shows in Honolulu to help raise awareness for bodybuilding, health and fitness and to raise money to send the Nuuanu weight lifting team to the U.S. for the National Weight Lifting Championships. Steve then flew to Vancouver, B.C. afterward and guest posed at the Mr. British Columbia Competition.
Here's a picture of Abby "Pudgy" Stockton. She was a hand balancer on Muscle Beach, wrote a column called "Bar Belles" and was the first woman to start a physical culture studio that was geared for woman. She used to be overweight until she met Les... (hence the nickname "Pudgy") then she got into great shape training with weights.
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/stevepudgy.JPG)
Are you the fan of Steve's who lives or used to live in Las Vegas?
No, I am from Montana. I was born in the 70s...
Other guy looks like Mickey H. but that's definitely not Tommy Kono (someone here at the house taking a guess) whom I believe lived in Sacramento around that time. (Not sure about that though!)
I thought I had a picture of Tommy Kono somewhere...but I found this one of Tommy Leong with Steve.
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/tommyleong.jpg)
A few years before George passed away, he and his wife presented me with a Gold Eifferman Medallion. While George placed it around my neck, his wife leaned into my ear and said, "George is real selective on whom he gives these to and you've certainly deserved it". I've received combat metals where words were not appreciated as much as hers.
That's quite an honor for you to receive the Gold George Medal. Congratulations and thank you for sharing that. I agree that sometimes it is the words that people say to us that mean as much or more than the awards themselves. That is a priceless memory for you, no doubt.
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/stevegeorge.JPG)
Thanks for reading this stuff, Montana. And others too.
There's a lot of BB history out there that should be written down before us old timers head to Greener Pastures. Some stuff I gotta with-hold (so I've been warned). Maybe one day I'll "braven up" and shoot the works.
Shoot whatever you feel comfortable with sharing. We appreciate it.
Thank you, Stuntmovie..and everyone here who contributes stories too.
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Classic case of being nailed ::)
you still believe in santa claus too? ;D
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Montana, Both Tommy and Timmy are personal friends of mine but I've been out of contact with them these past few years due to a long term family illness and a major move to the mainland.
Also was friends with Dr Peter George and Dr Richard You and worked a few times in Olympic lifitng endeavors with Harold Sakata who some of us may know as "Oddjob" in the James Bond movie long long ago.
Bringing back some great old memories here, Montana. Thanks!
I was an active member in the Nuuanu Y and helped promote many a bodybuilding contest in the basement weight room and upstairs under the basket ball net. Those were the good old days when we ran contests with four to five contestants and less than 100 fans and family members sitting on the court and applauding any and every decision that the judges made. And the contestants always joined in likewise.
Things were so much different then!
Gotta give Tommy a call this weekend.
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Montana, remind me to tell you the story about Pudgy when she moved to San Diago. It concerns a Marine Corps bud who took some time off from active duty (don't ask me how) to gain more muscle.
Heading off to get some shut eye!
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you still believe in santa claus too? ;D
There's a better chance that santa clause is at the north pole then Steve Reeves was on juice, so why not! :D
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Montana, you seem to have a good amount of knowledge on bodybuiding's past history, so please feel free to correct me when and if you catch me in an error and want to offer added comments. Someday I'd like to write a book about this subject, but my date and place and "who" memory is slowly slipping into the dark side ..... so any corrections or possible corrections, updates, etc. is greatly appreciated.
Back in the mid 60's I was stationed with a bunch of Marines (grunts/03's/Jarheads/Uncle Sam's Misguided Children - USMC/etc) who spent a lot of time in the base gym doing our best to outlift one another during our one to two hour "lunch break". Anyone (Marines and Navy) were allowed to lift providing they had the heart and competitiveness to do so. The gym was small so we had to be selective, but strength and weakness did not matter as long as "heart" was evident and one progressed up the wt scale over time.
This lunchtime activity grew to the point where we had to close the gym for only those who showed "heart" and yearned to train in earnest. The other guys would have to go running the hills or jump a rope or do laps in the pool on the other side of the camp. (Camp Margarita if memory serves me correctly.)
Over the months a lot of gains were made in that gym and some of the guys went off on weekends and returned with various olympic lifting, powerlifting, and bodybuilding trophies. And a few of the guys even managed to set new records for the Southern California area in many pullup, situp and pushup contests that were held throughout the relatively small beachside towns back then.
One Marine (a young, aggressive Lieutenant with tons of bodybuilding potentital who was the USMC "poster boy" back then) made some unreal gains over a short period of time and decided that he was going to be the best bodybuilder that he could be even if he had to "leave the Corps" in order to accomplish his new objective.
Well, Chesty Puller must have heard his dream and wanted him to stay, so this young Lieutenant (let's call him "Chris") with unreal potential somehow got orders to report to MCRD San Diego immediately - just down the road a piece! (MCRD = Marine Corps Recruit Depot for you civilian critters.
And San Diego just so happened to be the town in which Pudgy Stockton had a health food store...... and soon their paths would converge and change a small part of one Marine's history.
To Be Continued.... heading off to do some cardio.
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Montana, you seem to have a good amount of knowledge on bodybuiding's past history, so please feel free to correct me when and if you catch me in an error and want to offer added comments. Someday I'd like to write a book about this subject, but my date and place and "who" memory is slowly slipping into the dark side ..... so any corrections or possible corrections, updates, etc. is greatly appreciated.
Back in the mid 60's I was stationed with a bunch of Marines (grunts/03's/Jarheads/Uncle Sam's Misguided Children - USMC/etc) who spent a lot of time in the base gym doing our best to outlift one another during our one to two hour "lunch break". Anyone (Marines and Navy) were allowed to lift providing they had the heart and competitiveness to do so. The gym was small so we had to be selective, but strength and weakness did not matter as long as "heart" was evident and one progressed up the wt scale over time.
This lunchtime activity grew to the point where we had to close the gym for only those who showed "heart" and yearned to train in earnest. The other guys would have to go running the hills or jump a rope or do laps in the pool on the other side of the camp. (Camp Margarita if memory serves me correctly.)
Over the months a lot of gains were made in that gym and some of the guys went off on weekends and returned with various olympic lifting, powerlifting, and bodybuilding trophies. And a few of the guys even managed to set new records for the Southern California area in many pullup, situp and pushup contests that were held throughout the relatively small beachside towns back then.
One Marine (a young, aggressive Lieutenant with tons of bodybuilding potentital who was the USMC "poster boy" back then) made some unreal gains over a short period of time and decided that he was going to be the best bodybuilder that he could be even if he had to "leave the Corps" in order to accomplish his new objective.
Well, Chesty Puller must have heard his dream and wanted him to stay, so this young Lieutenant (let's call him "Chris") with unreal potential somehow got orders to report to MCRD San Diego immediately - just down the road a piece! (MCRD = Marine Corps Recruit Depot for you civilian critters.
And San Diego just so happened to be the town in which Pudgy Stockton had a health food store...... and soon their paths would converge and change a small part of one Marine's history.
To Be Continued.... heading off to do some cardio.
when i was a kid i competed in amateur boxing and had to go to school during the day so the only time i could train was 5pm when EVERYONE turned up. one of the problems competitve amateur fighters have is that they often have full time studies/ employment and they can only make it to the gym at peak times when many people turn up with absolutely no intention of seriously learning to box, but rather to 'train in a boxing gym'.
it got so bad (gym was so full, people were training outside) that the head coach put a sign up indicating wednesday nights were sparring nights, meaning that anyone that turned up would be required to spar with someone.
well, the next wednesday only 5 of us turned up the whole night. ;D 8)
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(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/abby.JPG)
Interesting stories, Stuntmovie. When you write that book, we will be very interested to read it. Thank you so much for sharing...and keep going...when you time...
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/military.jpg)
Beast, that's hilarious. I have to say...anyone who spars with you quickly realizes you are a formidable opponent. Thanks for sharing.
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(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/abby.JPG)
Interesting stories, Stuntmovie. When you write that book, we will be very interested to read it. Thank you so much for sharing...and keep going...when you time...
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/military.jpg)
Beast, that's hilarious. I have to say...anyone who spars with you quickly realizes you are a formidable opponent. Thanks for sharing.
M in M, where do you get this endless supply of pics? i believe podgy was a gymnast? how the hell did she get the name 'podgy'?
believe me, i wasn't so formidable an opponent back then. seemed i was always going to school with black eyes or sore/broken ribs. with hinsight, i should have listened to 'the fonz' and walked away from fights instead. my mother hated boxing with a passion and pleaded with me to play tennis, golf, badminton - anything but boxing. damn i wish i listened to her. mother knows best. :'(
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There's a better chance that santa clause is at the north pole then Steve Reeves was on juice, so why not! :D
yeah if your 5 :D
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Great pics.
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yeah if your 5 :D
epic hater syndrome.
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I'm getting a few "?" marks where the Steve pics are supposed to be. Any way to solve that situation?
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epic hater syndrome.
haha, mental age confirmed.
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haha, mental age confirmed.
guess you have a bad case of wounded pup syndrome huh? :D
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guess you have a bad case of wounded pup syndrome huh? :D
stop looking in your mirror ;D
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8)
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I believe that photo of Reeves and Eifferman was taken during the L'il Abner stage play auditions. Anyone got some background on that pic? Also how about some details on that photo of Steve and his friend outside the gym? Did Steve own or have an interest in a Gym back then? I don't recall that. I can only recall him training at Yarick's and sometimes coming into American Health Studios on Golden Gate Avenue in San Francisco.
Does anyone have any of the Mae West photos with Eifferman and the rest of the old timers? Tommy Kono was invited to participate in that Mae West tour but did not for some reason.
How about that old photo of Reeves that was in Life Magazine way before he was a movie star? I recall seeing these old time photos but never kept any. As a side - Anyone recall Walt Baptiste?
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Stuntmovie, here are the links to some of the pictures if you couldn't see them, try these:
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/abby.JPG (http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/abby.JPG)
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/military.jpg (http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/military.jpg)
I believe that photo of Reeves and Eifferman was taken during the L'il Abner stage play auditions. Anyone got some background on that pic? Also how about some details on that photo of Steve and his friend outside the gym? Did Steve own or have an interest in a Gym back then? I don't recall that. I can only recall him training at Yarick's and sometimes coming into American Health Studios on Golden Gate Avenue in San Francisco.
Does anyone have any of the Mae West photos with Eifferman and the rest of the old timers? Tommy Kono was invited to participate in that Mae West tour but did not for some reason.
How about that old photo of Reeves that was in Life Magazine way before he was a movie star? I recall seeing these old time photos but never kept any. As a side - Anyone recall Walt Baptiste?
Beast...mother does know best...but I think I did see an episode where the Fonz was in a fight...so, it's o.k. the way you did it...everyone learns their own best.
Figo...glad you like the pics. I put them up because I know people appreciate seeing them.
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Megalodone, Great Picture of Steve and [you?] outside his gym in Florida. Thank you for sharing.
Not me, the photo pre-dates my birth plus I'm 6'2". ;D
Another I found:
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Great shots, Mega! Were those taken in the San Francisco/Oakland Bay area or elsewhere? Also, do you know the year they were taken and the unidentified person with Steve?
Looking forward to hearing those stories, Montana.
Tommy Kono told me some of the Mae West story but that was so long ago, I forgot.
Do you know the details abot the fight that Steve was in at the Rio Nido dance hall area one summer Friday night?
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I wonder if if that's Al Christianson in that picture. Thanks again Megalodon.
Steve had a gym in Florida in 1956, the Steve Reeves Athletic Club at 6th and Alton Street. He sold it later that year and moved back to California...before going to Italy to make Hercules.
George Eiferman met Mae West through a mutual orthopedic surgeon. She was 62 and was starting up a traveling night club act. George convinced her to use bodybuilders in her show and went down to Muscle Beach and recruited bodybuilders to be in the show...Joe Gold (who'd never been onstage), Richard DuBois (a star already), Armand Tanny, Dom Juliano, Les Shaefer, Zabo Kozewski and Paul Novak, Mickey Hargitay and Lyle Fox. Bert Goodrich, the first Mr. America in 1939, pictured here was also in the show.
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/maewest.JPG)
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/maewest.JPG (http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/maewest.JPG)
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Thanks, Montana. I kind of recall when that Mae West show (50's) appeared at the Bal Taveran in San Francisco on Columbus Avenue just up the street from Bimbo's 365 Club (the home of the Girl in the Fishbowl). Many years later I did meet the likes of Joe Gold, Zabo, Bert Goodrich, and Armand Tanny. Spent many a time talking with Armand Tanny and a few of the pro wrestlers on the Beach of Waikiki directly behind the Reef Hotel where the present day "Duke's" is currently situated. Good old days and interesting people back then.
Also met Bert Goodrich backstage at one of the Mr America contests (the year Dave Johns won it) when he escorted Mae West onstage to present the overall trophy. While behind that heavy curtain, Mae just appeared to be a little old, inappropriately dressed, lady who could not see too well. But once she took Bert Goodrich's arm and walked out on that stage she became "Mae West". It was one of the most impressive and shocking changes I've ever seen and I have seen a lot of actors/actresses change from "wimps" and "bozos" to heros and heroines once that camera started to roll. But Miss West was the most impressive.
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Thanks, Montana. I kind of recall when that Mae West show (50's) appeared at the Bal Taveran in San Francisco on Columbus Avenue just up the street from Bimbo's 365 Club (the home of the Girl in the Fishbowl). Many years later I did meet the likes of Joe Gold, Zabo, Bert Goodrich, and Armand Tanny. Spent many a time talking with Armand Tanny and a few of the pro wrestlers on the Beach of Waikiki directly behind the Reef Hotel where the present day "Duke's" is currently situated. Good old days and interesting people back then.
Also met Bert Goodrich backstage at one of the Mr America contests (the year Dave Johns won it) when he escorted Mae West onstage to present the overall trophy. While behind that heavy curtain, Mae just appeared to be a little old, inappropriately dressed, lady who could not see too well. But once she took Bert Goodrich's arm and walked out on that stage she became "Mae West". It was one of the most impressive and shocking changes I've ever seen and I have seen a lot of actors/actresses change from "wimps" and "bozos" to heros and heroines once that camera started to roll. But Miss West was the most impressive.
Great recollections!
Sounds like you've lived your dream, and have lots of good memories. Your posts in the "Tell your favorite stories re pros/legends" thread, were very entertaining, read the whole thing. Thank-you for sharing. Please keep 'em coming! Any stories from the 70's onwards?
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Stunt is a good writer... Were you a movie stunt actor ??? ?
That bit about preformers transformation.... The best seem like their "Possesed" on stage.
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Thanks, Figo/Trab....... Good to hear that you like these recollections. I gotta write them down before the facts start fadeing away.
I've been a movie fan since I saw Pinnochio as a little kid and spent some time crashing the movie studios when I was old enough to drive a car and make serveral attempts at "crashing the gates" at 20th Century, Universal, and several other major Hollywood/Burbank studios.
While I was in high school, my favorite hobby was doing my best to sneak into various movie scenes as they were being filmed. My biggest success in that respect was a scene in a Frank Sinatra/Kim Novak movie called "Pal Joey". There were others too, but nothing worth mentioning here.
Later on my best friend became a major stuntman at Universal Studios (before the theme park was even being thought of) and he was the kind of guy who had no idea who or what major movie stars were, but he enjoyed the work and became one of the top stunt guys in the movie business making friends with some of the major players and studio owners during the 60's and 70's. (I'm bad at dates.)
I'd go to work with him quite often and would end up wandering through the sound stages watching them film some big Hollywood production starring actors who woould soon be major players in the big time movie world.
And as time passed some of my nephews and nieces got into the business and became someone important and indispensible in the making of some of the major block busters and a few minor attractions over the past few years .... Eraser, Grinch, Superman, Hulk, Village, (a others which I presently don't recall) and a couple other major films to be released shortly.
So with this family involvement, I've gotten involved once more and did some stunt work and, more enjoyably, stunt coordination and had/have the opportunity to meet some darn interesting people in this business called movie-making.
I, myself, am on the fringe of the business, but some of my family members are in the very center and work constantly.
Once you're known as the "Best at what you do", the doors are open wide and the work is fairly constant. And very profitable.
But the immediate future concerning the possible writer's strike may slow it down a bit. That will definitely hurt the TV industry and could possibly have an adverse effect on the movie business as well. Everybody wants a bigger share of the pie and as I understand it, the smallest slice always went to those who did the writing, and now they want to change the way that pie is cut.
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Seems computer animation stole a lot of reality from movies to me.
I dont enjoy todays movies because of it.
Nothing like French Connection or Bullit type chase...
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Seems computer animation stole a lot of reality from movies to me.
I dont enjoy todays movies because of it.
Nothing like French Connection or Bullit type chase...
Ronin was one of the last. The director apparently told them to drive, and that he didnt want to see brake lights... Also, De Niro's expression (of worry) in the peugeot passenger seat, is real. The Bourne stuff looks good, but far from real.
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Ronin? Must have missed that one as a result of traveling overseas.
This new movie "Beowulf" (mid November release date) looks like it will be different - part live, part computerized, part animation, and a hell of a great story.
I have a feeling it will initially be as popular as "300" or compared to it by the critics.
My brother worked on that San Francisco car chase scene in Bullit if that was the one shot on the hilly streets (Pacific Heights) in San Francisco. He also did some work on The Towering Inferno. Steve McQueen in both of them??
Now his kids are chasing and crashing movie cars in almost every car chase scene filmed by Hollywood.
Small world!
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Funny but true story.
I went to school with Shawn Eiferman................ I was totally into bodybuilding and weight lifting at the time, (High School). His dad was non other than George Eiferman, true story.
The funny part is, I found out George was his dad only a few months ago. He never really talked up his dad much. I remember him saying he (his dad) was into health and weight lifting, however.
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Interesting stories...thanks everyone...
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/reeves/sr210.jpg)
(http://blog.bodybuilding.com/wp-content/blogs/1164/uploads//srgft2.JPG)
http://blog.bodybuilding.com/wp-content/blogs/1164/uploads//srgft2.JPG (http://blog.bodybuilding.com/wp-content/blogs/1164/uploads//srgft2.JPG)
Stuntmovie, I'm a little behind in here...I need to scan some things. The 1947 Life Magazine issue with the article "Steve Reeves of Oakland, California is voted Mr. America of 1947" was an experience for Steve that made him cautious around journalists the rest of his life. Steve told the reporter about his training and talked about bodybuilding. The reporter asked him what his plans were now that he won the Mr. America contest, and Steve said, "I plan to go on with college, further my education." The reporter wrote and printed that Steve said, "When my muscles stop expanding in a couple of years, I will start expanding my brain." Steve was mad because he thought it made him and bodybuilders in general look like a bunch of air heads. I'll post more soon...
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/v.JPG)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/reeves/sr156.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/reeves/sr10.jpg)
Steve and Pudgy Stockton
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Montana, thanks for the pics and background stories on Steve.
Here's one I failed to mention earlier.......
When George Eifferman was confined to the hospital just prior to his passing away, a couple of us old friends were planning to visit him. While gathering visiting hour info from one of the family members, we were asked not to mention the fact that Reeves had recently passed away as it would most likely have an adverse affect on George's hoped for recovery.
I regret to say that we never did get to make that visit with George before he passed away.
Montana, do you have any idea how and when and where George and Steve met? Where did George live when he was still a teenager?
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Montana, thanks for the pics and background stories on Steve.
Here's one I failed to mention earlier.......
When George Eifferman was confined to the hospital just prior to his passing away, a couple of us old friends were planning to visit him. While gathering visiting hour info from one of the family members, we were asked not to mention the fact that Reeves had recently passed away as it would most likely have an adverse affect on George's hoped for recovery.
I regret to say that we never did get to make that visit with George before he passed away.
Montana, do you have any idea how and when and where George and Steve met? Where did George live when he was still a teenager?
Thank you for sharing, Stuntmovie. George Eiferman was from Philadelphia and trained at Fritshe's Gym there. He met Steve at the Mr. America contest in 1947 in Michigan. Steve told George to come out to California to live. So George went to California. I think I remember a story that he slept on a trampoline at one of the gyms the first night. I have to ask someone for the details on this, but Steve found him and rigged up an apartment situation. Then at one point, a lady by the name Joy Crettaz (a 70 yr. old widow) advertised "Rooms For Rent. Looking for tenants that don't smoke and are health conscious. Write to Joy Crettaz, Muscle Beach by the Sea, Santa Monica." It was a large modern home designed by famed California architect Richard Neutra one block from the ocean. The rent was $1.00/night. Steve, George and a bunch of bodybuilders moved in. Many of them were using their G.I.Bill which provided educational funds for veterans of WWII. Steve was going to school to become a chiropracter. More soon...
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/reeves/sr19.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/reeves/sr18.jpg)
Thank you Paolo, from Italy, for hosting many of Steve's pics.
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Man I wish I could input something but this is way before my time even. But I did see a few old friends names Timmy Leong and Tommy Kono. A couple of legends in Hawaii.
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(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/scalves.JPG)
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it has nothing to do with jealousy or thinking that reeves physqiue cant be attained without drugs...as i already said.
it has to do with the mindset of a obsessed narcissistic person such as reeves.
You're on a bodybuilding message board complaining about obsessed narcissistic people, get a clue ! All people involved in bodybuilding are Obsessed Narcissistic People.
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You're on a bodybuilding message board complaining about obsessed narcissistic people, get a clue ! All people involved in bodybuilding are Obsessed Narcissistic People.
Or just maybe thye actually like working out and staying in shape....as crazy as that may seem.
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Not me, the photo pre-dates my birth plus I'm 6'2". ;D
Another I found:
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159355.0;attach=204959;image)
That's Bill Perry.
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/sbpd.JPG)
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/stevebillperry.JPG)
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/billperry.JPG)
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/billperryboy.JPG)
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/bpw.JPG)
(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/bp3.JPG)
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This place is a gold mine on getbig. Its a privledge to see the past....our forefathers in the sport, you might say.
Good stuff. :)
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Q for Made in Montana:
Was Steve R ever out of shape? Did he ever let himself "go" in "off-season", or between roles? Did he have to try, or did his superior genes make it easy to stay in shape year-round?
By out of shape, I mean, not as lean, or lose muscle. Every pic I've seen, from young to older, he looked great.
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Dallas on IronAge is in love with Steve Reeves.
Sort of gay creepy man love.
Schmoe.
Reeves Juiced..