this is a cost cutting way to basic supp's for me ,instead no product drinks.i use powdered arginine olympia labs 9.00 u.s. dollars,regular micro creatine occasionally crea aklyn pill.glutamine,before training,after whey,glut/amino powdered/waxy if i have it.multi,and one other shake per day,rest is food .if i use no pill 20.00 maximum no overdrive 6 star brand 3 pills great pump.