Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: HavoX on March 01, 2006, 05:39:26 AM
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or are there any?
Is creatine illegal where you are?
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Only place I've heard about is France
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Only place I've heard about is France
You're kidding, right?
Why would creatine be illegal anywhere? It's not a drug, it's a natural component of food, found in red meat.
That would be like making protein illegal!
Fuccking europeans. >:(
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There are people at my gym who thinks taking protein shakes is cheating haha.
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It's illegal in Douchebagistan and Commonsenseville.
Special "Pravda" Ed
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"natural bodybuilding" is an oxymoron for many reasons.
Powdered Creatine itself is not "natural". It's a synthetic concentrated powder of the amino acids produced in a factory,It's anything but "natural". It occuring naturally in the body or existing in foods doesn't mean concentrating it into a powder makes it natural.
The word "natural" comes from the latin word naturalis meaning "From birth" in that sense the second anyone is born they are no longer "natural" but are changed due to "Society".
If you consider synthetic concentrated powdered creatine "Natural" then you must also consider synthetic testosterone "natural". Both occur naturally in the body, Both were synthesized and concentrated in a lab, Both are taken to increase the natural levels of the chemicals in the body. Nothing about synthetic powdered creatine concentrate makes it more natural than synthetic testosterone injections.
Nothing about Bodybuilding is "natural". Lifting weights molded from steel over and over daily is anything but "natural". You'll never find such equipiment in nature. Consuming thousands of calories a day is not "natural" espically 200grams of protein.
There's such a thing as "nature" and "Nurture". Having 14 inch arms that nature intended is "natural"..Building them to 18 inches by lifting weights for 10 years is "nurture" and is no longer considered "natural" but environmental.
Here is an article by Rick Collins I highly recomend.
"Natural Bodybuilding" - Modern Oxymoron?
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/collins/natural-bodybuilding.htm
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Holy smokes, my friend. Thought I was living healthily, eating well and exercising, and now I find all those efforts make me 'unnatural.' Thanks for the heads-up professor. *sigh*
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dr.chimps Unnatural does not imply Unhealthy just like Natural does not imply Healthy.
There are plenty of Un-natural healthy thigns and natural unhealthy things.
Multi-vitamin supplements are synthetic concentrated vitams. Unnatural yet very healthy to take.
Uranium is a natural element in nature. Natural yet very unhealthy to even be around.
Exercising,Taking vitamin supplements,These things aren't "natural" but are very healthy.
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Well natural in bodybuilding terms is referring to being juiced or not, like everyone knows.
But if you want to get technical about it, it makes sense that if you take vitamins and other supps you're not natural. Natural is like being the rest of the population eating empty calories and sitting on your ass. That's natural for ya. Perfect example of being natural, by Rick Collin's definitioin: 240!
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Well natural in bodybuilding terms is referring to being juiced or not, like everyone knows.
But if you want to get technical about it, it makes sense that if you take vitamins and other supps you're not natural. Natural is like being the rest of the population eating empty calories and sitting on your ass. That's natural for ya. Perfect example of being natural, by Rick Collin's definitioin: 240!
Well the bodybuilding definition of "natural" is inconsistent and ambigious and simply wrong.
Simply put...If synthetic powdered creatine monohydrate concentrate is "natural" then so is synthetic testosterone. Creatine being found in food is completly irrelevant. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to get say 20 grams of creatine a day simply by eating food.
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Well the bodybuilding definition of "natural" is inconsistent and ambigious and simply wrong.
Simply put...If synthetic powdered creatine monohydrate concentrate is "natural" then so is synthetic testosterone. Creatine being found in food is completly irrelevant. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to get say 20 grams of creatine a day simply by eating food.
Ok let me elaborate more on the bodybuilder definition of natural. No creatine out there increases/decreases hormone or test levels, or any other OTC supps. Say what you want about the so called "test boosters" but they're all shit. Injecting or taking pill form of steroids is not natural. Now that you bring it up the meaning of natural in bodybuilding is ambigious, but everyone assumes that if you say you're natural then you're not a juicer, and vice versa.
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Ok let me elaborate more on the bodybuilder definition of natural. No creatine out there increases/decreases hormone or test levels, or any other OTC supps. Say what you want about the so called "test boosters" but they're all shit. Injecting or taking pill form of steroids is not natural. Now that you bring it up the meaning of natural in bodybuilding is ambigious, but everyone assumes that if you say you're natural then you're not a juicer, and vice versa.
Why does it matter if it raises your hormone levels or not to be natural or unnatural? Hormone levels are just one bodly chemical level.
I say if something raises your creatine levels that's not natural. I say if you don't get the creatine from simple food than it isn't natural.
Injecting and taking steroids is NOT natural,I completly agree. But I also say taking synthetic concentrated creatine powder is not natural either.
There's no difference between the two that would make one natural and the other not.
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You're kidding, right?
Nope
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Test occues naturally. Wonder if that argument will fly, too.
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Test occues naturally. Wonder if that argument will fly, too.
Test occurs naturally-So does Creatine.
Test is produced synthetically and concentrated when used-So is Creatine.
Test increases natural test levels-Creatine increases natural creatine levels.
It's impossible to get test levels as high as you would have them on a steroid cycle without steroids-It's impossible to get creatine levels as high as you would have them on creatine with just creatine from food.
Creatine occuring in meat naturally doesn't mean Synthetic concentrated creatine is natural by any means.
IF creatine is "natural" so is Testosterone injections. So is HGH injections.
IF synthetic concentrated vitamin supplements are "natural"..So is test injections.
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Test occurs naturally-So does Creatine.
Test is produced synthetically and concentrated when used-So is Creatine.
Test increases natural test levels-Creatine increases natural creatine levels.
It's impossible to get test levels as high as you would have them on a steroid cycle without steroids-It's impossible to get creatine levels as high as you would have them on creatine with just creatine from food.
Creatine occuring in meat naturally doesn't mean Synthetic concentrated creatine is natural by any means.
IF creatine is "natural" so is Testosterone injections. So is HGH injections.
IF synthetic concentrated vitamin supplements are "natural"..So is test injections.
(http://evula.org/dragoon/pics/captain.obvious.jpg)
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(http://evula.org/dragoon/pics/captain.obvious.jpg)
Thank. That was the point of my post.
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johnny apollo is correct
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Mr. Apollo, all your points are valid and taken, but I think you are missing the thread's iron(y). ;)
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My earlier point was just that by athletic standards, my creatine usage is natural and normal.
Yet inconsistent...
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Test occurs naturally-So does Creatine.
Test is produced synthetically and concentrated when used-So is Creatine.
Test increases natural test levels-Creatine increases natural creatine levels.
It's impossible to get test levels as high as you would have them on a steroid cycle without steroids-It's impossible to get creatine levels as high as you would have them on creatine with just creatine from food.
Creatine occuring in meat naturally doesn't mean Synthetic concentrated creatine is natural by any means.
IF creatine is "natural" so is Testosterone injections. So is HGH injections.
IF synthetic concentrated vitamin supplements are "natural"..So is test injections.
Very dumb post. Testosterone and growth hormone are not present in natural food products. Like you said, creatine and whey protein supplements are merely concentrated derivatives of compounds found in common food products like red meat and milk. BIG difference.
Whether or not a compound is synthetically produced is irrelevant to its chemical properties. Synthetic testosterone, insulin, and growth hormone are chemically identical to the naturally occuring versions. The real test of "naturalness" is whether or not these compounds can be obtained naturally from food products. By this standard, steroids and other bodybuilding drugs are unnatural.
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I had friends in high school and college tell me that I wasn't "all natural" because I supplemented with creatine. Some people just don't understand this stuff and I guess the French (maybe not all) are lumped into this bone-head club.
Tell these morons that they can get a better pump and all natural via FARTING in eatchothers fat face between sets :o
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Not to mention the fact that steroids are vastly more effective at building muscle. Some of these pros gain 30-50 lb of muscle before a contest.
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I dye my hair, does that mean I am not natural?
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Very dumb post. Testosterone and growth hormone are not present in natural food products. Like you said, creatine and whey protein supplements are merely concentrated derivatives of compounds found in common food products like red meat and milk. BIG difference.
Whether or not a compound is synthetically produced is irrelevant to its chemical properties. Synthetic testosterone, insulin, and growth hormone are chemically identical to the naturally occuring versions. The real test of "naturalness" is whether or not these compounds can be obtained naturally from food products. By this standard, steroids and other bodybuilding drugs are unnatural.
I've already talked about this...
That's simply not how "natural" is defined. "natural" doesn't mean "If it can be obtained from food products in small amounts".
You can't just make up your own definition of "natural" to fit your argument. Nowhere in the definition of "natural" does it say "if it can be obtained in small amounts from foods."
The fact creatine exists in small amounts in foods is 100% irrelevant. The creatine found in the food is natural,The synthetic creatine from concentrate is NOT.
Learn to read.
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Not to mention the fact that steroids are vastly more effective at building muscle. Some of these pros gain 30-50 lb of muscle before a contest.
Again that's absolutely irrlelevant. Somethings effectiveness doesn't determine wether it's natural or not. Some people hardly gain any weight when they use Anabolic Steroids some people gain alot of weight. I've known guys who haven't gained but maybe 5lbs from a cycle when they did everything right and guys who gained 30lbs during a single cycle.
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jonny appollo...
Are you avin a laugh??
with out the need to get technical and all that stuff there are two types of bodybuilding....
Non tested bodybuilding= use what you like/no questions asked
Natural bodybuilding= no gear allowed
.....now that seems pretty simple to me.... its one choice or the other.
Gettin all smart about what is and what is is a bit of a time waster.
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jonny appollo...
Are you avin a laugh??
with out the need to get technical and all that stuff there are two types of bodybuilding....
Non tested bodybuilding= use what you like/no questions asked
Natural bodybuilding= no gear allowed
.....now that seems pretty simple to me.... its one choice or the other.
Gettin all smart about what is and what is is a bit of a time waster.
"Natural bodybuilding" is an oxymoron as i've proven already.
The term for Bodybuilding that is drug tested would be called "Bodybuilding without androgenic-anabolic steroids".
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and before you say it,
its not about learning to read or the right definitions of words etc....
Those are the choices/rules available.
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"Natural bodybuilding" is an oxymoron as i've proven already.
The term for Bodybuilding that is drug tested would be called "Bodybuilding without androgenic-anabolic steroids".
whatever you say dude....... ::)
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whatever you say dude....... ::)
I do say and i've proven myself to be correct.
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Thats great pal..... now go give yourself a gold star for being so smart.
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Tha Boss
Dont waste your time this guy has obviously got far to much time on his hands.
He is lookin for an argument for the sake of it.
vegatarians should all really supplement with creatine as creatine sources are mainly fish or meat based which makes it difficult for them to get enough.
Anyway what Tha Boss says goes right!
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Tha Boss
Dont waste your time this guy has obviously got far to much time on his hands.
He is lookin for an argument for the sake of it.
vegatarians should all really supplement with creatine as creatine sources are mainly fish or meat based which makes it difficult for them to get enough.
Anyway what Tha Boss says goes right!
Can't attack my argument so now you attack me personally....Nice job kid.
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Your argument is shit and totally unrealistic .
Comparing test to creatine get real!
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Your argument is shit and totally unrealistic .
Comparing test to creatine get real!
"Get real" isn't a counter argument. Either provide a counter argument or shut the fuck up.
I've proven myself and articulated my argument clearly. Unless you can address my assertions and point out how I am incorrect you've got nothing.
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You're kidding, right?
Why would creatine be illegal anywhere? It's not a drug, it's a natural component of food, found in red meat.
That would be like making protein illegal!
Fuccking europeans. >:(
You are so gullible!
As far as the "fuccking" Europeans are concerned the only place where stem cell research is illegal is in the US. The administration employs specious reasoning and rhetoric to convince middle America that stem cell research is sinful. The rest of the world is not as hypocritical as banning stem cell research while still allowing for genetically modified food to reach our grocery stores. Whats more many states in the US do not mandate the labeling of genetically modified food, robbing the consumer of his/her right to make an informed decision.
Now this witch hunt with regard to steroids in sports is another example of hypocrisy and false thinking. We all know how effectve this clean up of sports is. Our NFL and MLB jocks are still as muscular and their new drug tests are a joke. The players union is too strong for anything real to be done and the team owners want to put on a good show and that means steroids will be part of the plan to ensure that the pros play at levels expected of them without cutting back on their workload in the season. It is all about money! And to prove how gloriously ineffective this whole clean up sports business is: the Arnold classic will feature a group of people with more chemicals in their veins than in German pharmacy all under the auspices of a governor whose party has taken on the anti-steroids crusade! I don't care who juices or who doesn't. In fact I like freaky bodybuilders. They are like gladiators. They choose to risk their lives and more power to them. I want to see a good show. Bigger muscles, 500 lb musclemen. I do not care for an asthetic physique. I have one and it is boring. But I do care that steroids are being used to raise our meat and antibiotics in animal feed is reducing our ablity to fight the new strains of antibiotic resistant germs!
And don't get me started with the 21 and over alcohol rule. That rule has not stopped teenage Americans from consuming record breaking amounts of alcohol. We can send troops to die for their country at 18 but not trust them to enjoy a drink responsibly!
But you are a dyed in the wool conservative. You know what you want to hear and want to believe. Anything condemning France without any evidence is grist for your mill.
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Thats great pal..... now go give yourself a gold star for being so smart.
Sorry, but "johnny appollo" is just stating another side of the story and quite frankly it makes perfect sense.
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I will end this stupid argument whether consuming creatine affects ones natural status vis a vis injecting testosterone.
Firstly there is the concept of natural and synthetic when defined as nature-made and man-made. Eg. Wood is natural, but paper is man-made. Petroleum is natural but polyviny chloride is man made.
The second argument is whether it occurs in the human body. Both testosterone and creatine occur in the human body. Therefore both are naturally occuring and should not affect ones natural status. However let us examine this issue a little closer. Define "essential" as any chemical which is cannot be produced within the human body but must be supplied through external sources (mostly diet but also early morning sunshine helps produce Vitamin D). Vitamins are essential, the essential fatty acids are essential, the 10 amino acids (leucine, valine etc) are essential. Protein in themselves are not essential. The human body is capable of manufacturing all the proteins necessary for human metabolism from the recipes encoded in the DNA. However to make proteins it needs these 10 essential amino acids.
Creatine is clearly not essential. Vegans get almost none from their diet and they do not die. Ensure that a person does not get adequate amounts of even one essential amino acid and you will ensure the person will seriously fall ill and eventually die.
Therefore creatine can be produced by the human body for its needs. The same holds for testosterone. We do not need them supplied by dietary means. At this stage nothing separates the two. However if anyone does a basic analysis of the creatine and testosterone metabolism one finds that testosterone has a negative feedback loop while creatine does not. Excess creatine is simply disposed off as creatinine. Our body is programmed to produce only so much testosterone, supplying excess through supplementation will cause shutdown of natural testosterone production.
That is the reason my dear ignorant meatheads why testosterone is not considered natural and creatine is. Besides creatine is naturally found in meat. This also however does not imply that creatine is essential because it is part of a diet which contains meat. For example carbohydrates are a non-essential nutrient. Our body can live without carbohydrates and whatever is required can be produced from a process known as gluconeogenesis. The inuit often go for weeks without getting even a single gram of carbohydrates during the arctic winters. But carbohydrates account for a large proportion of calories of much of the worlds population.
As far as testosterone is concerned our bodies are not made to accept them through diet. Eating raw bulls and sheep testicles will not raise your serum testosterone levels.
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"natural bodybuilding" is an oxymoron for many reasons.
Powdered Creatine itself is not "natural". It's a synthetic concentrated powder of the <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=22&k=amino%20acids" onmouseover="window.status='amino acids'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">amino acids</a> produced in a factory,It's anything but "natural". It occuring naturally in the body or existing in foods doesn't mean concentrating it into a powder makes it natural.
The word "natural" comes from the latin word naturalis meaning "From birth" in that sense the second anyone is born they are no longer "natural" but are changed due to "Society".
If you consider synthetic concentrated powdered creatine "Natural" then you must also consider synthetic testosterone "natural". Both occur naturally in the body, Both were synthesized and concentrated in a lab, Both are taken to increase the natural levels of the chemicals in the body. Nothing about synthetic powdered creatine concentrate makes it more natural than synthetic testosterone injections.
You have made the argument that both creatine supplementation and synthetic testosterone supplementation are essentially natural substances but derived by unnatural means, so therefore they bear the same significance as unnatural bodybuilding practices.
This argument is weak because how a substance is derived and used (unnatural) bears no real significance. What's significant is as how it affects the body.
For example, a trainee isn't going to have to worry about gynocomastia, infertility, and an enlarged heart with creatine or other nutritional products in the natural sense. A woman won't develop male gender characteristics with creatine or other nutritional products in the natural sense.
Clearly, there is a deserved separation or classification of the two.
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Only place I've heard about is France
Nope
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I will end this stupid argument whether consuming creatine affects ones natural status vis a vis injecting testosterone.
Firstly there is the concept of natural and synthetic when defined as nature-made and man-made.
Eg. Wood is natural, but paper is man-made. Petroleum is natural but polyviny chloride is man made.
The second argument is whether it occurs in the human body.
Both testosterone and creatine occur in the human body. Therefore both are natural and therefore both should not affect ones natural status. But examining this issue a little closer we have to introduce the concept of a chemical being essential. Vitamins are essential, the essential fatty acids are essential, the 10 amino acids (leucine, valine, ) are essential. Protein in themselves are not essential. The human body is capable of manufacturing all the proteins for which it has a recipe encoded in our DNA. However to make proteins it needs these 10 essential amino acids.
Creatine is clearly not essential. Vegans get almost none from their diet and they do not die. Ensure that a person does not get adequate amounts of even one amino acids and you will ensure the person will seriously fall ill and eventually die.
Therefore creatine can be produced by the human body for its needs. The same holds for testosterone.
Again we need to delve further. Let us consider the metabolic cycle for testosterone. There is no negative feedback loop for creatine within our body. Excess creatine is simply disposed off as creatinine. Testosterone is however controlled by a feedback loop. Our body needs only so much for optimal performance.
That is the reason my dear ignorant meatheads why testosterone is not considered natural and creatine is. As far as the dietary intake of creatine is considered that too implies that our bodies can produce it but also rely on external sources much like carbohydrates which is not essential and which our bodies can manufacture by the process of gluconeogenesis. But we eat carbs and that does not make us unnatural either. However is not part of our diet testosterone. Even if you eat raw bulls testicles will not raise your serum testosterone levels.
Non sequitr, Nothing of what you've said establishes that creatine is natural and test isn't.
Excessive creatine DOES cause liver and kidney problems. It's filtered those organs and excessive amounts will damage them.
Not that this has absolutely any relevancy to it being natural or not.
Your argument makes no sense.
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You have made the argument that both creatine supplementation and synthetic testosterone supplementation are essentially natural substances but derived by unnatural means, so therefore they bear the same significance as unnatural bodybuilding practices.
This argument is weak because how a substance is derived and used (unnatural) bears no real significance. What's significant is as how it affects the body.
For example, a trainee isn't going to have to worry about gynocomastia, infertility, and an enlarged heart with creatine or other nutritional products in the natural sense. A woman won't develop male gender characteristics with creatine or other nutritional products in the natural sense.
Clearly, there is a deserved separation or classification of the two.
How it effects the body does NOT effect wether it's natural or not. Nowhere in the definition of "natural" does it say "no side effects" haha.
Hell...Pure meat is natural yet it has side effects. Increase of cholesterol and fat gain being two side effects.
I'll repeat this one last time..NOWHERE IN THE DEFINITION OF "NATURAL" DOES IT DELIST SUBSTANCES THAT HAVE NO SIDE EFFECTS!
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You are so gullible!
As far as the "fuccking" Europeans are concerned the only place where stem cell research is illegal is in the US. The administration employs specious reasoning and rhetoric to convince middle America that stem cell research is sinful. The rest of the world is not as hypocritical as banning stem cell research while still allowing for genetically modified food to reach our grocery stores. Whats more many states in the US do not mandate the labeling of genetically modified food, robbing the consumer of his/her right to make an informed decision.
Now this witch hunt with regard to steroids in sports is another example of hypocrisy and false thinking. We all know how effectve this clean up of sports is. Our NFL and MLB jocks are still as muscular and their new drug tests are a joke. The players union is too strong for anything real to be done and the team owners want to put on a good show and that means steroids will be part of the plan to ensure that the pros play at levels expected of them without cutting back on their workload in the season. It is all about money! And to prove how gloriously ineffective this whole clean up sports business is: the Arnold classic will feature a group of people with more chemicals in their veins than in German pharmacy all under the auspices of a governor whose party has taken on the anti-steroids crusade! I don't care who juices or who doesn't. In fact I like freaky bodybuilders. They are like gladiators. They choose to risk their lives and more power to them. I want to see a good show. Bigger muscles, 500 lb musclemen. I do not care for an asthetic physique. I have one and it is boring. But I do care that steroids are being used to raise our meat and antibiotics in animal feed is reducing our ablity to fight the new strains of antibiotic resistant germs!
And don't get me started with the 21 and over alcohol rule. That rule has not stopped teenage Americans from consuming record breaking amounts of alcohol. We can send troops to die for their country at 18 but not trust them to enjoy a drink responsibly!
But you are a dyed in the wool conservative. You know what you want to hear and want to believe. Anything condemning France without any evidence is grist for your mill.
Shows how much you know.
I (along with at least 2/3 of all americans) support stem cell research, I'm opposed to the prohibition on steroids, and I agree with you on the drinking age as well (mainly because kids are going to drink whether it's legal or not, so why piss in the wind?).
About the only thing I disagree with you on is the "genetically modified" crap. I've never seen any significant amount of credible scientfic evidence to show it's actually harmful, and until I do I'll assume it's just the socialist europeans whining about something ridiculous as usual.
Hey... it's not the Americans who are trying to ban vitamins and supplements. ::)
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There is no proof until now that genetically modified food is harmful, nor am I making such a claim. But neither has it been proven to be healthy. But that is not really the point.. Without labeling GM foods the consumer cannot exercise his/her choice. What is so "socialist" or "liberal" about this? In fact it let the consumer determine what he or she wants. Lack of clear identification of GM foods is another example of the government controlling access to information and determining what the consumer buys. This reminds me more of communism than anything: restriction of information and choice.
The arguments for banning stem cell research overwhelmingly hinges on religious sentiments: the fear of human cloning (not possible) and the fear of tampering with God's blueprints. Genetically modified food is also tampering with God's creation is it not? Shows you the double standards and hypocrisy of the current administration.
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How it effects the body does NOT effect wether it's natural or not. Nowhere in the definition of "natural" does it say "no side effects" haha.
Hell...Pure meat is natural yet it has side effects. Increase of cholesterol and fat gain being two side effects.
I'll repeat this one last time..NOWHERE IN THE DEFINITION OF "NATURAL" DOES IT DELIST SUBSTANCES THAT HAVE NO SIDE EFFECTS!
No kidding. You didn't comprehend a single word I wrote.
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The arguments for banning stem cell research overwhelmingly hinges on religious sentiments: the fear of human cloning (not possible) and the fear of tampering with God's blueprints. Genetically modified food is also tampering with God's creation is it not? Shows you the double standards and hypocrisy of the current administration.
And we all know how much B.S. religion is.
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And we all know how much B.S. religion is.
Thank you for clarifying. My point exactly in the above posts!
Why is it so hard for people like you to realize that explaining another groups viewpoints does not mean that I subscribe to the views myself. I disparagingly called the rationale for banning stem cells as specious and empty rhetoric designed to drum up conservative fervor.
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Thank you for clarifying. My point exactly in the above posts!
Why is it so hard for people like you to realize that explaining another groups viewpoints does not mean that I subscribe to the views myself. I disparagingly called the rationale for banning stem cells as specious and empty rhetoric designed to drum up conservative fervor.
That's good.
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That's good.
You are a moron.
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You are a moron.
That's bad.
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don't you think most people separate natural versus not natural IN BODYBUILDING by what's legal by law and what's not legal?
Most bodybuilders don't normally go by what's healthy and not healthy--because that's always debatable.
An of course, obtaining and using prescriptions drugs to simply build muscle (not for real health reasons) would NOT be considered natural even though obtained "legally."
ISn't this how mist BB separate the two?
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don't you think most people separate natural versus not natural IN BODYBUILDING by what's legal by law and what's not legal?
Most bodybuilders don't normally go by what's healthy and not healthy--because that's always debatable.
An of course, obtaining and using prescriptions drugs to simply build muscle (not for real health reasons) would NOT be considered natural even though obtained "legally."
ISn't this how mist BB separate the two?
By that definition Creatine is natural in USA but not natural in some European countires.
Anabolic steroids are not Natural in USA but ARE natural in Mexico and some east european countires.
That definition is very inconsistent.
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By that definition Creatine is natural in USA but not natural in some European countires.
Anabolic steroids are not Natural in USA but ARE natural in Mexico and some east european countires.
That definition is very inconsistent.
Creatine is legal according to the IOC. It is not in the list of banned substances that WADA puts out. European countries also form part of the IOC. So where do you get your "facts" about creatine not being legal in Europe from?
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Creatine is legal according to the IOC. It is not in the list of banned substances that WADA puts out. European countries also form part of the IOC. So where do you get your "facts" about creatine not being legal in Europe from?
The sale of creatine is banned in France, and it is also banned by the French Rugby Union.
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The sale of creatine is banned in France, and it is also banned by the French Rugby Union.
That sucks. You have to admit though, they make the best cheese and wine in the world. :D
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The sale of creatine is banned in France, and it is also banned by the French Rugby Union.
Wrong, creatine IS being sold in French stores.
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Wrong, creatine IS being sold in French stores.
No it isn't.
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No it isn't.
It is :P (btw are you French?)
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It is :P (btw are you French?)
Yes