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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: Tre on November 25, 2007, 08:26:15 PM
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Is this the 'test' that NE has been waiting on all season? Moot point, but could Philly have beaten NE tonite if McNabb had played? *doubtful*
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Is this the 'test' that NE has been waiting on all season? Moot point, but could Philly have beaten NE tonite if McNabb had played? *doubtful*
I think Aj Feeley played a hell of a game. Feeley played out of his mind tonight. He played like this when he played for Miami last time they faced him. This was a wake up call , and Im glad it happened. Although the pats played poor , the eagles gave them all they could handle, they played great. The pats dared Feeley to beat them in the middle , and he played a damn good game. I think Feeley is more effective at this point.
This media hype is out of control. The 85 bears, the greatest team ever , got slapped around by the dolphins for there one loss. No team is going to destroy everyone one every single time they play. Anyone who gets complacent gets beat. Any given sunday any team can step up and win a game.
I was surprised at how simplistic the pats game plan was today. Not a good game plan by Belichick and Josh tonight. The d played vanilla and was not getting any pressure tonight. Missed kicks , defensive breakdowns. Not a good game tonight for the defense.
A win is all that matter's. Props to Aj Feeley and Andy Reid. Great game plan. The eagles where obv the hungrier team tonight.
A tight game is just what the doctor ordered for this team. Im sick of the media hype.With the pats wraping up the afc east tonight I am glad the eagles showed up and played them tough.
Championship teams win when everything breaks down. Just like the colts, the steelers, green bay and dallas , you get it done when it gets tight.
Anyone who expects any team to kill everyone every time they take the field is a meatball. Much like the mediots hyping the pats to the moon.
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What the hell was Feeley thinking throwing that corner route? They could've at least tied it up to try to force overtime.
Good game though.
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Good game. Feeley literally threw the game away. Horrible pass.
The Pats are not invincible. Moss was taken completely out of the game. They got some heat on Brady. The Pats secondary is vulnerable. They're still the class the NFL, but as Madden said, the Eagles just gave the rest of the league a blueprint.
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Moss got taken out of the game but Welker was unstoppable.
It was nice to see a team actually jam the New England receivers at the line of scrimmage. At least make it a little tough for them.
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Good game. Feeley literally threw the game away. Horrible pass.
The Pats are not invincible. Moss was taken completely out of the game. They got some heat on Brady. The Pats secondary is vulnerable. They're still the class the NFL, but as Madden said, the Eagles just gave the rest of the league a blueprint.
I don't agree with that. When green bay lost did they nfl have the blueprint to beat them? They have not lost since. What about when the pats beat Dallas? They have not lost since. Same deal when the colts when they played the pats tough. The next week the bills got killed. Obv they watched that game film from the indy game. They attempted the same sort of coverage schemes but there personnel could not pull it off, and or the pats executed things they did not the week before.
Coverage breakdowns on the pats part are not a blueprint. The eagles played awesome don't get me wrong, but lack of pressure up front , and blown coverages caused a lot of those middle of the field completions. While the eagles played out of there mind , different teams have different personnel making the blueprint flawed from the start. The pats won this game so this "blueprint" is not a good one. The pats pressure up front was horrendous tonight. You are not going to do anything if you play games like that. Westbrook was the focus to stop. Which he was. The pats dared them to beat them in the air , and Feeley played out of his mind. I don't think Feeley does that 9 times out of 10. How many times did that guy escape sacks to complete passes? He was awesome tonight.
Tonight Randy got doubled and did nothing. But he has been doubled all year. He is not going to win every single battle every game. When the skins doubled him he tore them apart. The eagles personnel is not the colts personal. And vice versa.
I don't understand how when teams like the colts win a game under adversity they are champions. But the pats play one of only two close games this year tight they are all the sudden exposed.
Teams play bad football at times. The pats are no exception.
I don't think the eagles did anything tonight buy play fantastic football. This invincible crap is just that. This is the NFL and any team can beat another team on any given day. The 85 bears lost to the phins.
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Moss got taken out of the game but Welker was unstoppable.
It was nice to see a team actually jam the New England receivers at the line of scrimmage. At least make it a little tough for them.
I agree. Randy has been doubled all year. This time the eagles personal stone walled him. You see the plight of this problem though. You focus on Moss you get torched by wes. Same goes for stallworth, Watson and Gaffney.
When the redksins tried this Moss torched them. The thing about Randy is , even when he is taken out of a game he is still helping this team do to the attention the opponent has to give him.
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I agree. Randy has been doubled all year. This time the eagles personal stone walled him. You see the plight of this problem though. You focus on Moss you get torched by wes. Same goes for stallworth, Watson and Gaffney.
When the redksins tried this Moss torched them. The thing about Randy is , even when he is taken out of a game he is still helping this team do to the attention the opponent has to give him.
Exactly. You have to play an almost perfect game against the Pats. The fact that the Eagles dropped two sure interceptions really hurt their chances. You have to take every opportunity that the Pats give you or else they will eventually catch you.
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I don't agree with that. When green bay lost did they nfl have the blueprint to beat them? They have not lost since. What about when the pats beat Dallas? They have not lost since. Same deal when the colts when they played the pats tough. The next week the bills got killed. Obv they watched that game film from the indy game. They attempted the same sort of coverage schemes but there personnel could not pull it off, and or the pats executed things they did not the week before.
Coverage breakdowns on the pats part are not a blueprint. The eagles played awesome don't get me wrong, but lack of pressure up front , and blown coverages caused a lot of those middle of the field completions. While the eagles played out of there mind , different teams have different personnel making the blueprint flawed from the start. The pats won this game so this "blueprint" is not a good one. The pats pressure up front was horrendous tonight. You are not going to do anything if you play games like that. Westbrook was the focus to stop. Which he was. The pats dared them to beat them in the air , and he played out of his mind. I don't think Feeley does that 9 times out of 10.
Tonight Randy got doubled and did nothing. But he has been doubled all year. He is not going to win every single battle every game. When the skins doubled him he tore them apart. The eagles personnel is not the colts personal. And vice versa.
I don't understand how when teams like the colts win a game under adversity they are champions. But the pats play one of only two close games this year tight they are all the sudden exposed.
Teams play bad football at times.
I don't think the eagles did anything tonight buy play fantastic football. This invincible crap is just that. This is the NFL and any team can beat another team on any given day. The 85 bears lost to the phins.
Nah. I think Madden is right. Double Moss. Get physical with him. Make Welker and the rest beat you. Blitz and make Brady get rid of the ball. Play with 3 and 4 WR sets.
Also, the fact they did this at NE says a lot.
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Nah. I think Madden is right. Double Moss. Get physical with him. Make Welker and the rest beat you. Blitz and make Brady get rid of the ball. Play with 3 and 4 WR sets.
Also, the fact they did this at NE says a lot.
Teams have been doing this to the pats all year. The bills did it last week. They got killed. This forumla has been there since day one. Since when is doubling a teams best receiver , and getting to the qb a new formula? The skins got physical with Moss and he beat them. What the eagles players did does not automatically translate to gold for every team.
Do you honestly think a team is going to execute and play 100 percent in every single game all year? I mean the pats have played TWO close games this year. One vs the raining champions of the NFL. The 85 bears , the current greatest team ever lost to the phins. Did the phins expose the bears , or did the bears just lose a game because they did not execute?
The reason the eagles where so effective tonight was because the pats defensive line was focusing on stopping wetbrook , they got zero pressure on Feeley, and he played out of his mind.
daring Wes Welker , Stallworth , Watson and Gaffney to beat you is not going to translate to many wins if the pats defensive unit is playing well.
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I don't think Feeley played that out of his mind. The middle of the field was open the whole night and Feeley actually missed on a few deep balls that could have changed the game.
I do agree that the Pat's didn't really get that much pressure on him for the most part.
I think the best "blueprint" to beat the Pats is to keep their offense off the field for as long as possible. Easier said than done since so far the Eagles and Colts have been the only two teams to do it this year.
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Teams have been doing this to the pats all year. The bills did it last week. They got killed. This forumla has been there since day one. Since when is doubling a teams best receiver , and getting to the qb a new formula? The skins got physical with Moss and he beat them. What the eagles players did does not automatically translate to gold for every team.
Do you honestly think a team is going to execute and play 100 percent in every single game all year? I mean the pats have played TWO close games this year. One vs the raining champions of the NFL. The 85 bears , the current greatest team ever lost to the phins. Did the phins expose the bears , or did the bears just lose a game because they did not execute?
The reason the eagles where so effective tonight was because the pats defensive line was focusing on stopping wetbrook , they got zero pressure on Feeley, and he played out of his mind.
daring Wes Welker , Stallworth , Watson and Gaffney to beat you is not going to translate to many wins if the pats defensive unit is playing well.
The Bills stink, so I think their lack of success against the Pats doesn't say much.
There is no new formula. I'm just saying I agree with Madden. Cannot deny that what the Eagles did was effective (spread offense, blitz, take Moss out, etc.). What the Eagles showed, among other things, is the Pats have problems in the secondary. The Eagles were about two bad passes away from winning this game.
I don't think Welker, Stallworth, etc. are nearly as dangerous as Moss. Teams will have a much better chance to beat the Pats if they take Moss out of the game.
Everybody is still playing for second place, but if the Steelers and Giants use the same game plan they could make things very interesting.
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I don't think Feeley played that out of his mind. The middle of the field was open the whole night and Feeley actually missed on a few deep balls that could have changed the game.
I do agree that the Pat's didn't really get that much pressure on him for the most part.
I think the best "blueprint" to beat the Pats is to keep their offense off the field for as long as possible. Easier said than done since so far the Eagles and Colts have been the only two teams to do it this year.
I think Feeley played out of his mind considering he is a journey man qb. Feeley escaped a lot of sacks to make things happen. I thought the game plan was horrible for the pats tonight. The eagles caught them, and they played awesome.
The pats obv keyed on westbrook leaving the middle of the field open. Problem was the pats d line got ZERO pressure on Feeley giving him time to exploit the soft part of the pats zone.
If the pats had played several close games like this I would buy into the blueprint talk. But the fact is teams have been doubling Moss and blitzing the shit out of Brady all year. 90 percent of the time it has been ineffective.
I agree with you Cartel. Keeping the O of the field is the "blueprint". Which is nothing new.
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I think Feeley played out of his mind considering he is a journey man qb. Feeley escaped a lot of sacks to make things happen. I thought the game plan was horrible for the pats tonight. The eagles caught them, and they played awesome.
The pats obv keyed on westbrook leaving the middle of the field open. Problem was the pats d line got ZERO pressure on Feeley giving him time to exploit the soft part of the pats zone.
If the pats had played several close games like this I would buy into the blueprint talk. But the fact is teams have been doubling Moss and blitzing the shit out of Brady all year. 90 percent of the time it has been ineffective.
I agree with you Cartel. Keeping the O of the field is the "blueprint". Which is nothing new.
I didn't see keeing on Westbrook as a problem, because the Eagles didn't run much and they didn't run a lot of play action. They were playing a zone with gaping holes in the secondary.
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The Bills stink, so I think their lack of success against the Pats doesn't say much.
There is no new formula. I'm just saying I agree with Madden. Cannot deny that what the Eagles did was effective (spread offense, blitz, take Moss out, etc.). What the Eagles showed, among other things, is the Pats have problems in the secondary. The Eagles were about two bad passes away from winning this game.
I don't think Welker, Stallworth, etc. are nearly as dangerous as Moss. Teams will have a much better chance to beat the Pats if they take Moss out of the game.
Everybody is still playing for second place, but if the Steelers and Giants use the same game plan they could make things very interesting.
The bills had won four straight up until they faced the pats. They almost beat the cowboys. They do not stink. The bills are better then the eagles.
Welker had 13 catches for 140 yards tonight. Welker has been a gigantic threat all year.Do you watch most pats games? Teams have been doing this for the entire year. Only two games of the last 11 have been close.
Dallas used the same forumla and they got beat. same with the skins , a team with a better secondary then the eagles. I agree teams have a much better chance to take Moss out of games , but he has been doubled and tripled all year. This game is not the first time this has been done. This was the only game this year that this tactic was effective.
I agree Pit and the Giants can use this "tactic". but pit has lost three games to horrible teams , and the giants showed today they are in deep shit with the qb they have.
If you are going to bank on this tactic , you are also banking on the pats dropping a lot of balls , and the pats d playing very poor. Because they scored plenty of points to win. The eagles O made this game close. The pats scored plenty of point on there d.
Imo the pats game plan was very poor tonight. I dont think the pats are invinsible. Nor do I expect every single game to be a blowout.
My point is teams have been double covering moss all year. As well as pressuring Brady. The eagles are not better then Dallas and or Many other teams that fell using the same tactic.
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I didn't see keeing on Westbrook as a problem, because the Eagles didn't run much and they didn't run a lot of play action. They were playing a zone with gaping holes in the secondary.
Exactly. The pats banked on westbrook touching the ball. Reid came out throwing it exposing that soft seem in the middle of the field. The pats dared Feeley to beat them in the air , relying on the defensive pressure the line should have generated. The pats did not generate the pressure needed.
The patriots have played far better offensive teams then the eagles and given up less points.
If the blueprint as you said is the tactic teams take , they need to expect the pats d to pretty much do nothing all game. Which over the last 11 games has just not happened.
The reason I feel this blueprint is wrong , is because Moss has been doubled and triple teamed since the first game of the year. Out of 11 games tonight was the only night he was effectivly taken out of a game. Which was not that big of a deal since the pats still put up plenty of points to win.
No secondary is going to be invinsible if a line cannot create pressure. Look at Denver. The lack of defensive pressure up front was the issue imo.
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The bills had won four straight up until they faced the pats. They almost beat the cowboys. They do not stink. The bills are better then the eagles.
Welker had 13 catches for 140 yards tonight. Welker has been a gigantic threat all year.Do you watch most pats games? Teams have been doing this for the entire year. Only two games of the last 11 have been close.
Dallas used the same forumla and they got beat. I agree teams have a much better chance to take Moss out of games , but he has been doubled and tripled all year. This game is not the first time this has been done. This was the only game this year that this tactic was effective.
I agree Pit and the Giants can use this "tactic". but pis has lost two three horrible teams , and the giants showed today they are in deep shit with the qb they have.
If you are going to bank on this tactic , you are also banking on the pats dripping a lot of balls , and the pats d playing very poor. because they scored plenty of points to win. the eagles O made this game close. The pats scored plenty of point on there d.
The Bills beat the Ravens, Jets, Cincy, and Dolphins, four of the worst teams in the NFL. I've watched them play. I think they stink. They have one solid player on offense (Lynch) who is currently hurt. Losman is probably done. Evans hasn't done squat.
Yes I've watched the Pats play several times this year. They looked absolutely unbeatable in every game except the Colts game and today. Both the Colts and Eagles showed this is a team that can be beaten.
Welker caught a number of hot routes and racked up mostly meaningless yards. He picked up a few big first downs, but was largely contained. Brady had one TD pass on 54 attempts. Moss had 5 for 43. That's they way you beat this team.
The problem the rest of the league faces is Brady doesn't make many mistakes. I don't think he threw a bad pass all night.
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I know exactly what you are saying. My point is teams have been double and triple covering Moss all year. Pressuring Brady , getting physical with Moss, and or trying to containing "whoever" has been attempted since the second game of the year. So far that has resulted in Brady throwing 39 td's and 4 ints. And almost a 40 points per game average. I just think that considering the play over the last 11 games , this game was close do to poor execution, bad defensive play, and some suspect play calling. That and the fact the eagles played a great great game. If they played like that all the time ,they would be on top of the NFC.
No idea why Mc D did not establish any play action. I thought he did a shit job of game planning for this team. That and the fact the eagles where all fired up and playing great , while the pats seemed flat. I thought this was by far the worst play of the defensive front all year.
Nothing the eagles did tonight was different then many other teams have been attempting to do all year. What was different was the pats defensive line got little to no pressure , allowing Feeley to make a lot of throws.
Imo two close games out of 11 which still resulted in wins is not any new type of blueprint.
You wont catch me calling the pats invinsible. That is just silly. Pure media hype. The pats played a tight game tonight. I dont think the d plays like they did tonight 9 times out of 10.
Props to the eagles , even though they lost they played great.
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...but as Madden said, the Eagles just gave the rest of the league a blueprint.
The problem is that the only team left on their schedule that's capable of executing it is the Steelers, who they'll play at Foxboro.
The Ravens D is a shadow of it's former self, but even if they were still #1, their offense can't score any points. And then the Giants...who knows what the hell they are, all I know is that they flat out suck (and cost me a lot of potential winnings yesterday). The games against the Jets and Dolphins are gimmes.
As I see it, if the Patriots get to 13-0, then they'll run the table and get to 16-0, even if they play only 2nd-teamers in the final 3 games of the regular season.
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I don't understand how when teams like the colts win a game under adversity they are champions. But the pats play one of only two close games this year tight they are all the sudden exposed.
Because just like with Barry Bonds, people want to see cheaters lose.
But don't worry - no matter what happens, you will always ALWAYS have Sean Salisbury to massage your groin for you. He keeps Brady's penis warmer and more moistened than the guy's girlfriend does.
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I'm just glad I won a shitload of money on last night's game...took the sting out of the Giants losing (had those assholes teased down to a pick 'em).
I don't know how you can give an NFL team 26.5 points, but that's a number that I will take every time.
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Because just like with Barry Bonds, people want to see cheaters lose.
But don't worry - no matter what happens, you will always ALWAYS have Sean Salisbury to massage your groin for you. He keeps Brady's penis warmer and more moistened than the guy's girlfriend does.
So why don't people want to see the broncos, steelers , 49ers , chargers or cowboys lose? All teams caught "cheating".
The real reason why the pats get so much hate tossed there way is the same reason the Yankees or the Celtics where hated. Because year after year they win. They are always in the mix to win. They always contend. They win superbowls. They make the playoffs every year. Fans of losing teams like you get sick of the pats in the playoffs. Sick of all the superbowls. Its tough to watch your own team lose year after year. Hard to accept the horrible drafts , the terrible gameplans. The endless what if's , or could have beens. While great teams like the pats can draft in low rounds and still field better players. Before 98 when the pats where in the tail end of one of there worst stretches I knew how you felt. I hated teams that won to. Hated the cowboys the most!
Don't you worry Tre. You will have plenty of ammunition to whine about Salisbury over. Because the pats will keep winning , and you will keep whining ;)
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I'm just glad I won a shitload of money on last night's game...took the sting out of the Giants losing (had those assholes teased down to a pick 'em).
I don't know how you can give an NFL team 26.5 points, but that's a number that I will take every time.
The pats scored over 50 points on the skins and the bills. Two better teams then the eagles. The only time the pats did not cover the spread other then last night was vs the colts. So leading up to the eagles game the pats covered the spread nine out of ten times.
I see why vegas did what they did , but you where smart to take that number. That was the dumbest spread in history. All it did was infuriate the eagles into playing awesome.
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I enjoyed the game. Philly was one of the teams I picked to upset the Pats b/c of the coaching job of the Def. coordinator.
Here's what I learned from the game: Randy Moss can be frustrated and taken out of the game. That's not a secret to GB fans though. He's exhibited that trait while in MN.
The Pats can't cover an empty backfield w/ 5 wideouts (but who can?). A team with a deep core of receivers and a good tight end can score on this defense.
Maroney is a good back. He has quick feet but he runs upright and takes big hits.
Welker is a great acquisition and plays within his means.
The key to beating the defense is run a 4 or 5 wideout scheme and test those NE linebackers all over the field.
The keys to slowing down the offense are jam the wideouts on every play w/ an aggressive bump 'n run and Mix up the blitz packages early and often.
Man the Pats are good.
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Hey Decker how do you feel about Mcnabbe? Do you think the eagles should trade him?
Let AJ start and maybe look for a new qb?
I thought AJ looked great last night. It could be said that Mccnabe is holding the eagles back a bit.
I thought you where an eagles fan. Maybe it was the cowboys? I know cartel is a cowboys fan.
Of all people I know NE is looking for a trading partner. If they pick second or third overall (sf's pick) The eagles could trade up and take anyone they wanted.
I don't know much about Beck. My apologies if he is the future starter.
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Hey Decker how do you feel about Mcnabbe? Do you think the eagles should trade him?
Let AJ start and maybe look for a new qb?
I thought AJ looked great last night. It could be said that Mccnabe is holding the eagles back a bit.
I thought you where an eagles fan. Maybe it was the cowboys? I know cartel is a cowboys fan.
Of all people I know NE is looking for a trading partner. If they pick second or third overall (sf's pick) The eagles could trade up and take anyone they wanted.
I don't know much about Beck. My apologies if he is the future starter.
I think McNabb is a great quarterback. Feeley is a journeyman. In my opinion, there is no comparing the two. Trading McNabb would be a serious error for Philly.
I was born and raised in Wisconsin. I cried, at the age of 10, when GB lost its home opener to Chicago in a stinking 6-3 game. That was in the days when I thought Terdell Middleton was as good as Walter Payton b/c both backs ran for a 1000+ in the previous year.
I've been a GB fan for almost 30 years. There's no other team for me.
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Sorry my mistake. I got the color right. Wrong shade though. I dont know if trading Mccnabe could be such a bad idea.
IMO his inconsistancy is hurting the eagles more then helping them. When he is healthy he can be great , but he gets dinged up all the time.
If Beck is not "the guy" is there a franchise qb in the draft that could be. Brohm and Ryan come to mind.
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Sorry my mistake. I got the color right. Wrong shade though. I dont know if trading Mccnabe could be such a bad idea.
IMO his inconsistancy is hurting the eagles more then helping them. When he is healthy he can be great , but he gets dinged up all the time.
If Beck is not "the guy" is there a franchise qb in the draft that could be. Brohm and Ryan come to mind.
I am horrible at assessing fledgling qb talent. I look at the winners around the NFL and most of them were not golden boys like Peyton. The best around are the Bradys, Favres, Warners, Hasselbecks...not exactly first rounders. It's the biggest crap-shoot position.
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Look at this list:
1. TOM BRADY Brady had to fight for time at Michigan with Brian Griese. He was a sixth round pick. Obviously this guy was not a spoiled college star. He needed to outwork people to become the best.
2. CHAD PENNINGTON Played at a small school Marshall. He has had a ton of injuries.
3. JAKE DELHOMME I dont even know what school he came from.
4. TONY ROMO Undrafted, was a better basketball player than a football player in high school. Sat on the bench for years.
5. JEFF GARCIA Had to go to Canada to get a job. Small guy who made himself a Pro Bowler.
6. PEYTON MANNING The only exception on the list.
7. DAVID GARRARD Played at East Carolina and was a 4th round pick who has spent most of his career as a backup.
8. BEN ROETHLISBERGER He was a high draft pick, but he also played at Miami of Ohio. Not THE U, Miami of Ohio.
9. MATT SCHAUB Sat on the bench behind Michael Vick, was a 3rd round pick and UVA isnt exactly a hotbed for football.
10. JON KITNA Central Washington?
11. CARSON PALMER On the surface hes an exception. He was a Heisman Trophy Winner from USC, like Leinart, was the #1 Pick and lived up to expectations. However, in his first three years at USC Palmer was inconsistent and routinely bashed by the press. Look through newspapers before the 2002 Season and you wont see many positive stories about Palmer.
12. MATT HASSELBECK He was a 6th round pick who has to deal with premature baldness and his sister-in-law Elisabeth Haselbeck.
13. DONOVAN MCNABB He was a star in college, a high first round pick and a Pro Bowler, but hes dealt with a ton of adversity, much of it undeserved, racially motivated criticism. Most would agree that McNabb has had to work his tail off to get to where he is.
14. BRETT FAVRE Everyone knows his story. He had one college scholarship offer and even though he was drafted in the 2nd round, his coach, Jerry Glanville said it would take a plane crash for him to put Favre in the game. He obviously has had to work incredibly hard to get to where he is.
15. You can extend this list to include virtually every starting QB --- Steve McNair went to Alcorn State, Trent Green was an 8th round pick, Marc Bulger was a 6th round pick, etc.
I could go on and on. The only Quarterbacks who had big time success at big time college football programs, were high draft picks, and started games this year are Matt Leinart, Rex Grossman, and maybe Philip Rivers. These 3 are amongst the most disappointing QBs in the early part of 2007 with a combined record of 3-6.
http://accuscore.com/articles/nfl-articles/where-do-great-quarterbacks-come-from?/
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Morning boys...anyway great game and a good wake-up call for the rest of the season. I'm sure BB will be hammering the secondary. This was the type of win we were used to during the 03-04 SB runs. We waited till the other team made mistakes and pounced. It was a courious offensive game plan. Philly blitzed all night and we went 5 wide without alot of play action or runs to slow it down. When they did go play-action it looked effective. Not alot of pressure on Feeley. They have to get Mauroney going. i watched the KC game early. Fargas for Oakland hit those holes very fast, something LM is not doing. While the secondary played poorly, the Philly receivers made great catches. I hope Colvin is ok
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Jesus Christ. The one week the fucking Pats can't cover the spread in either half and it's got to be against the Eagles with a journeyman quarterback.
At home, no less.
The fuckers.
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The real reason why the pats get so much hate tossed there way is the same reason the Yankees or the Celtics where hated. Because year after year they win. They are always in the mix to win. They always contend. They win superbowls. They make the playoffs every year. Fans of losing teams like you get sick of the pats in the playoffs. Sick of all the superbowls. Its tough to watch your own team lose year after year. Hard to accept the horrible drafts , the terrible gameplans. The endless what if's , or could have beens.
I don't think anyone hated the Patriots until we found out they were cheaters. C'mon, let's be honest here - they really had become "America's Team" and everyone talked about them as being a 'model franchise' that didn't overpay anyone.
And the commissioner is in bed with the Patriots' owner.
"We're going to take away your 1st-round pick."
Oooo, like that hurts at all, given that the Patriots get to keep their pick from San Francisco.
If anything, my anger stems from the fact that Brady never did jack shit when playing for my fantasy team and now all of a sudden, he's Dan fucking Marino.
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I don't think anyone hated the Patriots until we found out they were cheaters. C'mon, let's be honest here - they really had become "America's Team" and everyone talked about them as being a 'model franchise' that didn't overpay anyone.
And the commissioner is in bed with the Patriots' owner.
"We're going to take away your 1st-round pick."
Oooo, like that hurts at all, given that the Patriots get to keep their pick from San Francisco.
If anything, my anger stems from the fact that Brady never did jack shit when playing for my fantasy team and now all of a sudden, he's Dan fucking Marino.
Everyone hated the patriots last year. Also , answer my question. Do you hate the 49ers, the steelers, the broncos , the cowboys or the chargers. All cheaters.
The pats where fined a first round choice for having a "video machine" on the field. The NFL said the pats got no advantage from the confiscated tape , and none of the other things they looked at dating back to 2001 had anything illegal about them. The NFL said that! If you actually listened to what the NFL said you would see the competitive advantage they got was the video machine itself being on the field. A rule violation that led to a advantage , because you CANNOT have cams on the field. however Goodel said the tape did not lead to any type of advantage. plain and simple those are the facts. The trash talk is nothing more then that , speculation and an attempt to discredit a team that is better then you.
Saying the commish is in bed with he pats when he used to work for the jets is just more nonsense. Really all the cheater talk , and shots at the pats comes from anger and jealousy. I think it is funny personally. How people bash Brady because he had a kid with his gf of 3 years. All that garbage. Pure envy.
If that where not the case everyone would hate the Broncos and every other team I listed about for "cheating" in the NFL.
Btw the way the pats keep the san fran pick not due to the fact they got it easy , the pic was acquired through trade with players and or contracts involved. You cant just untrade players.
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If I was a defensive coordinator in the NFL I would blitz Brady with as many people as possible while maintaining man coverage. every single play.
And I would do it with fast guys so his receivers wouldn't have the time to get downfield before he got hit.
He's going to complete passes no matter what, so just make sure they're not long ones.
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If I was a defensive coordinator in the NFL I would blitz Brady with as many people as possible while maintaining man coverage. every single play.
And I would do it with fast guys so his receivers wouldn't have the time to get downfield before he got hit.
He's going to complete passes no matter what, so just make sure they're not long ones.
If you tried to blitz Brady while leaving only Man coverage on Moss and Stallworth you would lose that game by about 50 points IMO. Moss can score doubled. He has 16 td's being double and tripled teamed all year. You need help from the safety's to cover those two. Even if you could somehow cover Moss and Stallworth man , you would get screen passed to high heaven sending the entire house on every play.
Over the last 11 games the pats offensive line had been nearly impenetrable. Last night the eagles played great. The pats still scored 31 points. With a missed kick and a td called back due to a penalty.
The reason the long ball was not there last night was because of the lack of play action. Coupled with fantastic play on the eagles part. Brady has a perfect qb rating from play action. Hell moss dropped a few deep balls right in his breadbasket. Same with Stallworth.
Forcing the pats to beat you with the short stuff is fine IMO. Before they had deep threat wr's they won sb's with Brady ultra quick release and short passing game. No idea why they didnt run the rock more. People assume the pats don't run it , but they have the 8th best rushing game in the NFL. The colts are at nine who have a great rushing attack. In fact Brady has less pass attempts then Manning this year , which is weird if you think about it.
What the pats did last night was the same game plan as the Minnesota game last year. It was a bad game plan , complimented by the defense just not showing up to play. The eagles played a flawless football game. They played pretty much perfect football. Made every play etc etc. Lets be serious, the eagles are a five and six team. Thats the facts. A five and six NFC team. Either they morphed into the cowboys on steroids, or they played a fantastic game all fired up , while the pats played a pretty poor game.
I am not trying to "diss" the eagles. They played AWESOME. They showed how great there personel and coaching is. Anyone who tells you the pats are unbeatable is a yahoo. This is the NFL. The 85 bears the current greatest team ever lost a game to the phins. They also won many games by close scores. Teams are not going to be driven to win at the absolute highest level every single time out. Its just not possible.
Sheesh the way I sound you would think they lost.
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If you tried to blitz Brady while leaving only Man coverage on Moss and Stallworth you would lose that game by about 50 points IMO. Moss can score doubled. He has 16 td's being double and tripled teamed all year. You need help from the safety's to cover those two. Even if you could somehow cover Moss and Stallworth man , you would get screen passed to high heaven sending the entire house on every play.
Over the last 11 games the pats offensive line had been nearly impenetrable. Last night the eagles played great. The pats still scored 31 points. With a missed kick and a td called back due to a penalty.
The reason the long ball was not there last night was because of the lack of play action. Coupled with fantastic play on the eagles part. Brady has a perfect qb rating from play action. Hell moss dropped a few deep balls right in his breadbasket. Same with Stallworth.
Forcing the pats to beat you with the short stuff is fine IMO. Before they had deep threat wr's they won sb's with Brady ultra quick release and short passing game. No idea why they didnt run the rock more. People assume the pats don't run it , but they have the 8th best rushing game in the NFL. The colts are at nine who have a great rushing attack. In fact Brady has less pass attempts then Manning this year , which is weird if you think about it.
What the pats did last night was the same game plan as the Minnesota game last year. It was a bad game plan , complimented by the defense just not showing up to play. The eagles played a flawless football game. They played pretty much perfect football. Made every play etc etc. Lets be serious, the eagles are a five and six team. Thats the facts. A five and six NFC team. Either they morphed into the cowboys on steroids, or they played a fantastic game all fired up , while the pats played a pretty poor game.
I am not trying to "diss" the eagles. They played AWESOME. They showed how great there personel and coaching is. Anyone who tells you the pats are unbeatable is a yahoo. This is the NFL. The 85 bears the current greatest team ever lost a game to the phins. They also won many games by close scores. Teams are not going to be driven to win at the absolute highest level every single time out. Its just not possible.
Sheesh the way I sound you would think they lost.
They beat a team that's been having a lousy year yet the game could have gone either way.
I still think that if a team has a strong bumpnrun corner and a hardhitting safety, Moss can be controlled. I think Wesker is a better receiver than Stallworth. The blitzing has to be selective yet effective and that's the hard part.
Sometimes it looks like Belichick calls plays just to test his football theories with no reference to the game being played--the constant empty backfield, then the slew of playaction plays etc.
The greatest team I ever saw was the '85 bears. I mean they just blew through opposing O lines like they weren't there. The defensive talent on that team was and is unmatched.
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They beat a team that's been having a lousy year yet the game could have gone either way.
I still think that if a team has a strong bumpnrun corner and a hardhitting safety, Moss can be controlled. I think Wesker is a better receiver than Stallworth. The blitzing has to be selective yet effective and that's the hard part.
Sometimes it looks like Belichick calls plays just to test his football theories with no reference to the game being played--the constant empty backfield, then the slew of playaction plays etc.
The greatest team I ever saw was the '85 bears. I mean they just blew through opposing O lines like they weren't there. The defensive talent on that team was and is unmatched.
And they beat the snot out of 10 other teams , some of which are very good NFL teams. The packers have a joke for a schedule. Aside from Dallas they dont play anyone. They play the scedule that is given to them and they are a damn good team. I could see them in the sb any day of the week. They win and thats all that matters.
Take the redskins game for example. They have everything you just said. Great pash rush , hard hitting physical corners. Physical corners, and they got lit up for 52. All I sam saying is this new blueprint has been going on since the second week in the year. Moss sees double and even triple coverage all the time.
It works , but the pats have to have some sort of monster breakdowns to let it shut them out. Because 31 points ( when they are not playing well) is enough to win with the pats d if it is playing to its ability. Look at the numbers vs offensive teams far superior to the eagles. They are top 5 in the NFL.
As you saw last night the pats scored 31 points ( minus a missed fg and a called back score) when they had a fired up team playing just about the best smash mouth football you can play.
The pats d had a very bad game last night. Imo that was it was so close. That and the fact the eagles just played so high above there average level this year its almost weird.
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Uusally in these games the offense hasa bad game. Brady had a great game atook what was available. All underneath stuff to a very shifty Welker...Stallworth is fine but needs some space to get rolling..once he does he's very hard to take down. Some of the throws to Moss were easily catchable and he also got that bullshit Offensive PI call. I wish they had run better and screamed each time Brady took off..but all in all the Eagles played great. Reid and company coached them very well and they did all they could. It comes down to something that Body and I have posted since summer camp..who are u going to cover. If u double Moss u need to worry about Stallworth and the TE Watson..if u use the safeties to plug them then u leave Welker or Faulk out of the back field. They picked their poison and almost survived. Hats off to the Eagles.
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Uusally in these games the offense hasa bad game. Brady had a great game atook what was available. All underneath stuff to a very shifty Welker...Stallworth is fine but needs some space to get rolling..once he does he's very hard to take down. Some of the throws to Moss were easily catchable and he also got that bullshit Offensive PI call. I wish they had run better and screamed each time Brady took off..but all in all the Eagles played great. Reid and company coached them very well and they did all they could. It comes down to something that Body and I have posted since summer camp..who are u going to cover. If u double Moss u need to worry about Stallworth and the TE Watson..if u use the safeties to plug them then u leave Welker or Faulk out of the back field. They picked their poison and almost survived. Hats off to the Eagles.
Its true. They played fantastic. But you and I both know last night the pats d was on vacation and the game plan as a whole was horrendus. They still scored 31.
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Usually when we have these games..Brady is throwing piks, Faulk is dropping balls after 20 yard screens and Watson has balls bouncing off of him. This was different..but after all the break downs in the seconday I just kept waiting for the timely pic and we finally got 2 of them. It was all much like the "old pats. The Philly o line did a great job. Any word on Colvin......
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And they beat the snot out of 10 other teams , some of which are very good NFL teams. The packers have a joke for a schedule. Aside from Dallas they dont play anyone. They play the scedule that is given to them and they are a damn good team. I could see them in the sb any day of the week. They win and thats all that matters.
Take the redskins game for example. They have everything you just said. Great pash rush , hard hitting physical corners. Physical corners, and they got lit up for 52. All I sam saying is this new blueprint has been going on since the second week in the year. Moss sees double and even triple coverage all the time.
It works , but the pats have to have some sort of monster breakdowns to let it shut them out. Because 31 points ( when they are not playing well) is enough to win with the pats d if it is playing to its ability. Look at the numbers vs offensive teams far superior to the eagles. They are top 5 in the NFL.
As you saw last night the pats scored 31 points ( minus a missed fg and a called back score) when they had a fired up team playing just about the best smash mouth football you can play.
The pats d had a very bad game last night. Imo that was it was so close. That and the fact the eagles just played so high above there average level this year its almost weird.
The Redskins were missing dbs when the Pats played them weren't they?
Judging by the Pat's schedule, they played Indy. One more better team than the Pack will face (both play Dallas). So much for your strength of schedule argument.
As for the Pack's schedule...which team was it that sent Philadelphia, New York, and San Diego on their respective slides toward the shitter?....that's right--it was Green Bay. They also busted up KC and Denver in consecutive away games. But really, you gotta play who's on the schedule--it's not like they got a choice. The only falter Green bay had was the 7 point loss to Chicago...for a team that was 8-8 last year, 10-1 is pretty damn good.
Also, Green Bay has two shut down bumpnrun corners in Al Harris and Charles Woodson. They have a solid defensive line that pressures the quarterback. They have a couple of hard hitting safeties too.
And they have as deep a wide receiving corp as the Pats do. Green Bay goes 5 wideouts all the time plus they have a very good tight end. GB throws the ball deep very well.
Those are the necessary ingredients for beating the Pats.
How do I know? B/c I stand by my prediction that Green Bay beats the Pats in the Super Bowl....again.
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Is this the 'test' that NE has been waiting on all season? Moot point, but could Philly have beaten NE tonite if McNabb had played? *doubtful*
Just as with Garcia last year, they had a better shot without McNabb. Last year and this, Philly would be much better off trading McNabb soon for lots of picks, and going in another direction. BTW Rush Limbaugh was right about McNabb, despite all the bad press.
NE's a very good but not great team, at least not yet. Philly, Colts & Dallas have each exploited various weaknesses with the Pats, but didn't do quite enough to take full advantage. Colts & Dallas still have viable shots at knocking NE off and might have the opportunity to learn from their mistakes later.
Fox Sports
Here's how you beat the Patriots
Yes, the Eagles almost won. Yes, they became the first big underdog to cover the Vegas spread. But the bottom line remains that New England is still unbeaten and even on one of their worst nights defensively, the Patriots still won. They are a remarkable team although Sunday night they did appear vulnerable to Philadelphia's aggressive tactics.
Here are five things the rest of the NFL can take from the Eagles' "almost" win:
1. Teams must be physical with Randy Moss and the other New England receivers.
Philadelphia's cornerbacks jammed Moss as much as possible at the line of scrimmage and always made sure to bump him within the allowable five yards. Tom Brady still fired 12 passes toward Moss, but he managed only five catches for 43 yards. It was only the second time this season Moss went without a touchdown catch (the Browns allowed him only three receptions in Week 5). Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Johnson designed a defense hoping to negate the big, over-the-top receptions to Moss and it worked.
However, while limiting Moss, it opened up the shorter passing lanes for Wes Welker, who had a career game with 13 catches for 149 yards. Welker was elusive after the catch although he also failed to score a touchdown. So while the strategy worked in slowing down Moss, the Patriots flipped over to Welker and also hit Donte Stallworth for a 31-yard gain. Once again, the Patriots proved they may have too many athletes on offense to ever be totally shut down.
2 You must vary your blitzes on Tom Brady.
The Eagles did a tremendous job in this area while sacking Brady three times. Afterward, Brady admitted he took some of the most physical hits all season in this game. Are we sensing a trend here? Defenses must sell out coverage at times in order to be physical with Brady, Moss and Co. But what helped the Eagles with this game plan was that New England opened in a spread formation and in shotgun. The Patriots passed 25 times and called only two runs in the first half. It's this unbalanced offensive approach that may eventually be New England's undoing.
With Brady working from the shotgun, it helped Philadelphia's pressure because they could time the snap count better. Cadence is an important part of slowing down the rush and Brady could have altered his counts had he been over center. So, essentially, the Patriots played into the Eagles' game plan a little here. Johnson also devised a significant wrinkle to his scheme by using linebacker Chris Gocong as a linebacker/defensive end. Johnson brought an extra blitzer on 50 percent of Brady's 57 pass plays and Gocong fit into that role nicely. It confused Brady at times, leading to sacks and also his season-high 20 incompletions.
3. You must gamble and go deeper with your passing game.
Whether or not you believe A.J. Feeley should be starting over Donovan McNabb in Philadelphia, the important aspect of this game was Andy Reid's belief that the Patriots could be beaten on deep posts and slants. Feeley also played the game with a gunslinger's mentality and that's why he felt he lost the game with his two fourth-quarter interceptions. But up until those late miscues, the Eagles were brazen with their attack and it almost worked.
Without question, Patriots cornerback Asante Samuel is one of the game's best. He proved that with a game-opening touchdown return of an interception. His second interception also sealed the precarious win for the Patriots. But the rest of the New England secondary is not great. Safety Rodney Harrison is better near the line of scrimmage and right cornerback Ellis Hobbs can be beaten. The Eagles consistently found open receivers when New England was using six defensive backs. Now, coach Bill Belichick seemed to think that some of his players were out of position on a couple Philadelphia touchdowns based on his animated sideline behavior.
And, like Jimmy Johnson said on the Fox pregame show, you also have to gamble with onside kicks and on fourth-down possessions. The Eagles did both and were successful. The only way to beat New England is to keep the ball away from Brady ... and if you've got to gamble to do that, then so be it.
4. You must be able to pass block on the edges.
We all thought that New England had a better pass rush than the one they showed against Philadelphia. But the Eagles made sure to protect Feeley, who basically remained steady in the pocket. Yes, he was dropped twice but for only nine yards in losses. Feeley rushed a few throws, but basically the Eagles handled New England's pressure. Outside linebacker Mike Vrabel wasn't causing any havoc and that was a testament to Philadelphia's offensive linemen.
You didn't see Patriot defenders running free at Feeley and knocking him to the ground. He had time to throw. This is a basic premise of pro football and Philadelphia handled New England's front seven better than anyone has all season. And this wasn't some unconventional scheme; the Eagles simply sucked it up and old-timers like Tra Thomas and Jon Runyan played excellent games. Ditto for guard Shawn Andrews. When Feeley ran a quarterback sneak on fourth down, he ran right behind Andrews and converted the first down easily.
5. You need a versatile running back.
I was chastised in some circles for putting Brian Westbrook (and Adrian Peterson) on my midseason All-Pro team, but Westbrook's versatility was critical to Philadelphia's game plan. Westbrook has tremendous explosion, but he's also invaluable in the team concept. He picked up pass rushers when he was supposed to and he didn't whiff on any blocks. Now, Westbrook's overall numbers weren't awesome (92 yards on 24 touches), but he did score a touchdown and kept many a drive alive with a gutsy run or pass reception. And, as usual, Westbrook didn't fumble.
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The greatest team I ever saw was the '85 bears. I mean they just blew through opposing O lines like they weren't there. The defensive talent on that team was and is unmatched.
That Bears team was unbalanced; on defense their DBs were tough but not on par with the line or backers and couldn't handle strong passing teams-Miami that season or the 49ers the preceeding years' playoffs. If Miami makes it to the Super Bowl in '85 they win, IMO. Because of the schedule that year, that weakness wasn't particular noticed or exposed through the season or playoffs.
They were also not the smartest defense, not the way other great defenses were.
The Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys & Dolphins at their peak would beat them.
I stand by my prediction that Green Bay beats the Pats in the Super Bowl....again.
::)
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The Redskins were missing dbs when the Pats played them weren't they?
Judging by the Pat's schedule, they played Indy. One more better team than the Pack will face (both play Dallas). So much for your strength of schedule argument.
As for the Pack's schedule...which team was it that sent Philadelphia, New York, and San Diego on their respective slides toward the shitter?....that's right--it was Green Bay. They also busted up KC and Denver in consecutive away games. But really, you gotta play who's on the schedule--it's not like they got a choice. The only falter Green bay had was the 7 point loss to Chicago...for a team that was 8-8 last year, 10-1 is pretty damn good.
Also, Green Bay has two shut down bumpnrun corners in Al Harris and Charles Woodson. They have a solid defensive line that pressures the quarterback. They have a couple of hard hitting safeties too.
And they have as deep a wide receiving corp as the Pats do. Green Bay goes 5 wideouts all the time plus they have a very good tight end. GB throws the ball deep very well.
Those are the necessary ingredients for beating the Pats.
How do I know? B/c I stand by my prediction that Green Bay beats the Pats in the Super Bowl....again.
So much for my argument? The afc as a whole is better then the NFC. The pats already beat Dallas Bad. Green bay has not even played them yet. You have to wait until the packers actually play them before you compare the two. The pats also played the colts. The packers have a good d, the pats is better vs better offensive opponents. The packers have not faced a prolific offense and or qb yet.
As a whole the pats have faced and destroyed 5 teams that are in the top 10 for total offense in the NFL. Three of those teams in the top 5. The packers have faced zero. As for the chargers the pats sent them on there original slide at the start of the year.
The schedule statement is not to discredit green bay. It is a valid point , who have the packers played? Dallas will tell us the real deal. I think the packers are a fantastic team. Don't get me wrong.
Green bay does not have as a deep a receiving core as the pats. The Cowboys have a better defense then the packers and the pats beat them minus 5 starters.
I'm not saying the packers cant beat the pats , they can. My point is this bump and run blitz talk has been going on since game game 2. Its nothing new , and to this point in its most effective state held the pats to 31 points.
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So much for my argument? The afc as a whole is better then the NFC. The pats already beat Dallas Bad. Green bay has not even played them yet. You have to wait until the packers actually play them before you compare the two. The pats also played the colts. The packers have a good d, the pats is better vs better offensive opponents. The packers have not faced a prolific offense and or qb yet.
As a whole the pats have faced and destroyed 5 teams that are in the top 10 for total offense in the NFL. Three of those teams in the top 5. The packers have faced zero. As for the chargers the pats sent them on there original slide at the start of the year.
The schedule statement is not to discredit green bay. It is a valid point , who have the packers played? Dallas will tell us the real deal. I think the packers are a fantastic team. Don't get me wrong.
Green bay does not have as a deep a receiving core as the pats. The Cowboys have a better defense then the packers and the pats beat them minus 5 starters.
I'm not saying the packers cant beat the pats , they can. My point is this bump and run blitz talk has been going on since game game 2. Its nothing new , and to this point in its most effective state held the pats to 31 points.
I see your points and they are good. But what AFC superiority? Outside of NE, Indy, everybody else is mediocre....Jacksonville might come on.
Outside of Dallas and Indy, the Pats have played nobody special. The top 5 teams in the top 10 of offense is sort of misleading. The Packers will have faced 3 of the top offensive teams in the NFL. Green Bay has beaten 3 of the top 10 defensive teams too.
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Sun 9/9/2007 1:00 PM @ Jets CBS / WBZ Channel 4 38-14 W
Sun 9/16/2007 8:15 PM vs Chargers NBC / WHDH Channel 7 38-14 W
Sun 9/23/2007 1:00 PM vs Bills CBS / WBZ Channel 4 38-7 W
Mon 10/1/2007 8:30 PM @ Bengals ESPN / WCVB Channel 5 34-13 W
Sun 10/7/2007 1:00 PM vs Browns CBS / WBZ Channel 4 34-17 W
Sun 10/14/2007 4:15 PM @ Cowboys CBS / WBZ Channel 4 48-27 W
Sun 10/21/2007 1:00 PM @ Dolphins CBS / WBZ Channel 4 49-28 W
Sun 10/28/2007 4:15 PM vs Redskins FOX / WFXT Channel 25 52-7 W
Sun 11/4/2007 4:15 PM @ Colts CBS / WBZ Channel 4 24-20 W
Sun 11/11/2007 vs Bye
Sun 11/18/2007 8:15 PM @ Bills NBC / WHDH Channel 7 56-10 W
Sun 11/25/2007 8:15 PM vs Eagles NBC / WHDH Channel 7 31-28 W
Mon 12/3/2007 8:30 PM @ Ravens ESPN / WCVB Channel 5
Sun 12/9/2007 4:15 PM vs Steelers CBS / WBZ Channel 4
Sun 12/16/2007 1:00 PM vs Jets CBS / WBZ Channel 4
Sun 12/23/2007 1:00 PM vs Dolphins CBS / WBZ Channel 4
Sat 12/29/2007 8:15 PM @ Giants
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I see a slew of .500 teams above and two good ones. The Steelers and Giants are a cut above the rest, but not by much. Nobody can make a 'strength of schedule' argument this year.
Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Jabar Gafney, Donte Stallworth are not, as a group, better than Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Koren Robinson, James Jones and Ruvell Martin.
Moss is the best. I think that Driver and Jennings are better than Welker even though Welker has 1000 receptions this year. I would take GB's 5 wideouts v. the Pats 6 DBs in most situations. That's my opinion and I base it on past performance, athletic ability, game effect and other intangibles that help me with this argument (that's a joke).
The bumpnrun has been going on against the Pats all year. But nobody does it as effectively as GB.
Look, I know the Pats are the best this year, but I don't think they are unbeatable. And as a GB fan, I pick GB to win it all. Two years ago this team was 4-12 and life as a GB fan was miserable. For once, I'm going to the hilt with my support and become a real fan instead of being a disinterested bystander.
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I see your points and they are good. But what AFC superiority? Outside of NE, Indy, everybody else is mediocre....Jacksonville might come on.
Outside of Dallas and Indy, the Pats have played nobody special. The top 5 teams in the top 10 of offense is sort of misleading. The Packers will have faced 3 of the top offensive teams in the NFL. Green Bay has beaten 3 of the top 10 defensive teams too.
I see a slew of .500 teams above and two good ones. The Steelers and Giants are a cut above the rest, but not by much. Nobody can make a 'strength of schedule' argument this year.
Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Jabar Gafney, Donte Stallworth are not, as a group, better than Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Koren Robinson, James Jones and Ruvell Martin.
Moss is the best. I think that Driver and Jennings are better than Welker even though Welker has 1000 receptions this year. I would take GB's 5 wideouts v. the Pats 6 DBs in most situations. That's my opinion and I base it on past performance, athletic ability, game effect and other intangibles that help me with this argument (that's a joke).
The bumpnrun has been going on against the Pats all year. But nobody does it as effectively as GB.
Look, I know the Pats are the best this year, but I don't think they are unbeatable. And as a GB fan, I pick GB to win it all. Two years ago this team was 4-12 and life as a GB fan was miserable. For once, I'm going to the hilt with my support and become a real fan instead of being a disinterested bystander.
I never said they where unbeatable. I said the opposite. I am just debating you. I also complimented green bay as a fantastic team. They can beat the patriots. No one is unbeatble no one.
As for your points.
The packers have played only two top ten offensive team in the eagles, and the broncos and won by three points in each game. The pats have played five. Three of those teams are top five offensive teams. I dont know if you are counting the preseason also , which is irrelevant as teams don't even play there starters for more then a quarter. I only count two teams.
I don't think gb 's receivers are better then the pats for a simple reason. Brady has 39 td's to 4 ints with a rating over 130 with 100 less passing attempts, and a one game handicap compared to Farve. Farve has 22 td's to 8 ints with over 100 more passing attempts and a one less game. Brady is a better qb then Farve , but as a whole I would take Moss and co over gb's squad. Welker is a slot receiver who will go over 1000 yards this season, he already has over 800, Even comparing our slot guy to your number one and two wr is what I am saying.The leading td grabber on the packers only has 2 td's more then NE's slot receiver with 100 more passing attempts and a one game handicap since the pats have played one more game. Stallworth has been used sparingly by design. Donte is unreal after the catch. His speed and ability will be utilized more as teams start to key on Moss more and more.
Moss has 8 times more td's then driver in 100 less passing attempts.
Ben Watson led the league in td's for tight ends before he got hurt. He is back , and he is a big threat. Watson has 4 more td's then Donald Lee with twenty fewer passing attempts. Both have just about the same average. The pats have the 8th best rushing attack in the NFL and they have yet to really turn up the running game. Green bay is currently ranked 32nd at the worst in the nfl. http://www.nfl.com/stats/team
I see your point with the db's. But over 11 games the pats have a better defensive team then green bay vs better offensive opponents. The pats are ranked at number three total , while the packers are ranked at number 11 with one less game. Pats pass defense is ranked 8th while gb's is ranked 18th. The pats ahve faced better offensive oppenonts and are ranked much higher vs the pass. Several teams including the pats play better pass defense then the packers.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCatego ry=null&defensiveStatisticCatego ry=TEAM_PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCatego ry=null&defensiveStatisticCatego ry=TOTAL_YARDS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find
Statistically over 11 games the pats are superior in every offensive and defensive catogory across the board to green bay. The game last night was in no way a barometer of how this team has played on the defensive side of the ball all year. If you would take your guys over the pats guys it would be based on personal preferance because stat wise its not really close. http://www.nfl.com/stats/team
None of this means anything btw. The packers could beat the pats. Just saying. The packers are a great football team and deserve to be on top of the NFC. Just debating.
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That Bears team was unbalanced; on defense their DBs were tough but not on par with the line or backers and couldn't handle strong passing teams-Miami that season or the 49ers the preceeding years' playoffs. If Miami makes it to the Super Bowl in '85 they win, IMO. Because of the schedule that year, that weakness wasn't particular noticed or exposed through the season or playoffs.
They were also not the smartest defense, not the way other great defenses were.
The Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys & Dolphins at their peak would beat them.
::)
Pumpster remember when we all knew the "blueprint" to knock the colts off last year. Rum , run , run the ball. You said how the d would correct missing those tackles. I told you there was no way a team with that horrid rushing d wins out in the playoffs and I was wrong!
Teams thought , hey if the jags can run it we can run it to!
Granted over the last 11 games the patriots are number three in total defense, top ten in passing defense , top 5 in rushing defense as well as tops in special teams play.
Anyone who has watched this pats team knows the d did not even show up to play last night. This blueprint has been going on all year. The only time it worked was last night.
Worked to the tune of 31 points and a loss for the eagles.
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Pumpster remember when we all knew the "blueprint" to knock the colts off last year. Rum , run , run the ball. You said how the d would correct missing those tackles. I told you there was no way a team with that horrid rushing d wins out in the playoffs and I was wrong!
Teams thought , hey if the jags can run it we can run it to!
NE has some softness against the run, as demonstrated by Dallas. BTW it's ridiculous that Jones is still playing half of each game when Barber's clearly one of the NFL's best backs for the last couple of years.
And NE's soft against inside throws.
Hard to know if either Dallas or the Colts can do enough to address these weaknesses, but Dallas is improving (Owens has caught up with Moss in receiving) and the Colts are still right there with NE despite the hype about NE this year.
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I am perfectly happy with top 5 in rushing defense , the number 8 passing defense and the number three total defense in the NFL.
People saw the d line get no pressure last night, saw the middle of the field left open do to a commitment to take away westbrook and think that is a blueprint. The eagles did zero on the ground last night. I dont think Andy Reid himself would have guessed AJ Freeley would actually play the way he did when dared to beat them through the air. Because thats what they did.
The pats have the number three defense in the entire NFL having played most of the best offensive teams in the NFL today. 3rd fewest points allowed per game.
I think the pats weakness is corrected by better execution.
I think it is laughable that the pats win a close game to move to 11 - 0 and everyone expects them to play there hearts out 100 percent every snap of every game ever. Winning by 700 points of course.
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I never said they where unbeatable. I said the opposite. I am just debating you. I also complimented green bay as a fantastic team. They can beat the patriots. No one is unbeatble no one.
As for your points.
The packers have played only two top ten offensive team in the eagles, and the broncos and won by three points in each game. The pats have played five. Three of those teams are top five offensive teams. I dont know if you are counting the preseason also , which is irrelevant as teams don't even play there starters for more then a quarter. I only count two teams.
I don't think gb 's receivers are better then the pats for a simple reason. Brady has 39 td's to 4 ints with a rating over 130 with 100 less passing attempts, and a one game handicap compared to Farve. Farve has 22 td's to 8 ints with over 100 more passing attempts and a one less game. Brady is a better qb then Farve , but as a whole I would take Moss and co over gb's squad. Welker is a slot receiver who will go over 1000 yards this season, he already has over 800, Even comparing our slot guy to your number one and two wr is what I am saying.The leading td grabber on the packers only has 2 td's more then NE's slot receiver with 100 more passing attempts and a one game handicap since the pats have played one more game. Stallworth has been used sparingly by design. Donte is unreal after the catch. His speed and ability will be utilized more as teams start to key on Moss more and more.
Moss has 8 times more td's then driver in 100 less passing attempts.
Ben Watson led the league in td's for tight ends before he got hurt. He is back , and he is a big threat. Watson has 4 more td's then Donald Lee with twenty fewer passing attempts. Both have just about the same average. The pats have the 8th best rushing attack in the NFL and they have yet to really turn up the running game. Green bay is currently ranked 32nd at the worst in the nfl. http://www.nfl.com/stats/team
I see your point with the db's. But over 11 games the pats have a better defensive team then green bay vs better offensive opponents. The pats are ranked at number three total , while the packers are ranked at number 11 with one less game. Pats pass defense is ranked 8th while gb's is ranked 18th. The pats ahve faced better offensive oppenonts and are ranked much higher vs the pass. Several teams including the pats play better pass defense then the packers.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCatego ry=null&defensiveStatisticCatego ry=TEAM_PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCatego ry=null&defensiveStatisticCatego ry=TOTAL_YARDS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find
Statistically over 11 games the pats are superior in every offensive and defensive catogory across the board to green bay. The game last night was in no way a barometer of how this team has played on the defensive side of the ball all year. If you would take your guys over the pats guys it would be based on personal preferance because stat wise its not really close. http://www.nfl.com/stats/team
None of this means anything btw. The packers could beat the pats. Just saying. The packers are a great football team and deserve to be on top of the NFC. Just debating.
You really make this board pretty good b/c you know what you are talking about. That's a good thing.
Let's face it, the Patriots look unbeatable. Could the Packers beat them. Like you said, anything's possible but this Patriot team is in the running for the best of all time. I'm just trying to make it interesting. What fun is there in throwing up my hands and stating the obvious? Thanks for indulging me in that respect.
I cannot make an argument that GB has as good a receiving corps based on the current year's stats. That is impossible. So I take a different tact talking about athleticism and anything but stats b/c that's an argument that I can't win.
I'll keep at it though.
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The packers have a great shot to beat the patriots. The packers are a fantastic team. Those stats I posted mean squat during a playoff game. The packers have the personnel to potentially beat the pats. I know this my friend. great qb , great d , great o, great coaching. Packers have it all right now.
I have been a pats fan since the days of Shaffer. When they would not even show pats games on Monday night because they where so wild.
Long before they lost to the packers in the big dance when the big Tuna was the coach. This is the best team I have ever seen.
That said they are not unbeatable. Are they going to be tough to beat? Yes they will , but teams like Green bay, Dallas, the Steelers and colts could do it.
Trust me , I don't take either GB or Dallas lightly.
Green bay fans are the best football fans in the country. The loyalty you guys show is pretty impressive. I went to a GB game and everyone was great. Win or lose , packers fans love there team no matter what.
Btw AJ Hawk is a beast.
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Its amazing what the Pac has done. It bears repeating that we kicked the shit out of them last year. ;D. Blueprints are media fodder at best. If ur guys aren't the same then its a moot point. if u can't get pressure with 4 down lineman..forget it. if u don't have good corners..forget it. I still don'r believ these guys will go undefeated..u can't take anything from the squeeler game last night. I guess u can look at the games they lost. They have been inconsistant and they play in NE. The Pats have the Ravens on Monday night. They appear to be alot of flash on defense but nothing appears to be getting done...even still. Their offense is horrible. Will Todd Heap play?
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Its amazing what the Pac has done. It bears repeating that we kicked the shit out of them last year. ;D. Blueprints are media fodder at best. If ur guys aren't the same then its a moot point. if u can't get pressure with 4 down lineman..forget it. if u don't have good corners..forget it. I still don'r believ these guys will go undefeated..u can't take anything from the squeeler game last night. I guess u can look at the games they lost. They have been inconsistant and they play in NE. The Pats have the Ravens on Monday night. They appear to be alot of flash on defense but nothing appears to be getting done...even still. Their offense is horrible. Will Todd Heap play?
Didn't you know hh6? Getting physical with receivers and being aggressive with blitz packages is a new concept vs offensively powerful teams ::)
Pats have by far there worst defensive game of the season , score 31 and win. SHould have been 40 if not for that called back td and missed fg. Oh brother love the mediots and there "stories".
Ravens have good defensive personel. Pats tend to come back huge after they play bad.
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Any word on Colvin or whether Troy Brown will be activated.
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Any word on Colvin or whether Troy Brown will be activated.
Not yet. The fact they have said nothing is bad news. When they say absolutely nothing compred to pretty much nothing, usually sucks.
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Didn't you know hh6? Getting physical with receivers ....
It worked with Philly. Moss had only 4 catches and no touchdowns. Moss gets frustrated. I saw that for years when he was with Minnesota. The only player that can contain Randy Moss is Randy Moss.
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I'm really proud of the way the Eagles played. If we can play like that from here on out we can go 10-6 and make the playoffs. I doubt it though...as soon as McNabb is back in, they'll go back to their old ways.
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I'm really proud of the way the Eagles played. If we can play like that from here on out we can go 10-6 and make the playoffs. I doubt it though...as soon as McNabb is back in, they'll go back to their old ways.
South Jersey....ugh. Jk. I think McNabb is done after this year and for good reason, he sucks now. This is the problem with running QBs, once they lose their leg speed they are useless.
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It worked with Philly. Moss had only 4 catches and no touchdowns. Moss gets frustrated. I saw that for years when he was with Minnesota. The only player that can contain Randy Moss is Randy Moss.
I know , my point was what the iggles did is nothing new and it didn't work in the 10 previous games. If Moss did not have that td called back on that bogus pi call he would have had a td. The pats O isstill top notch without moss. All doubling him does is open things up for other people. Moss dropped several balls right in his bread basket. The eagles did a FANTASTIC job , but the fact is the attention they payed Moss allowed Welker to rape them.
I don't understand this argument. The pats d was the problem not the pats O. The d had a shat game. The pats had over 400 yards of offense playing there worst football of the year, and thirty one points. Again you add in that td that called called back , and the missed field goal we are talking 40 points in there worst game of the season.
Teams can double and triple Moss all day. Thats what Watson , Stallworth, Welker , Gaffney , Faulk and Maroney are for.
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I know , my point was what the iggles did is nothing new and it didn't work in the 10 previous games. If Moss did not have that td called back on that bogus pi call he would have had a td. The pats O isstill top notch without moss. All doubling him does is open things up for other people. Moss dropped several balls right in his bread basket. The eagles did a FANTASTIC job , but the fact is the attention they payed Moss allowed Welker to rape them.
I don't understand this argument. The pats d was the problem not the pats O. The d had a shat game. The pats had over 400 yards of offense playing there worst football of the year, and thirty one points. Again you add in that td that called called back , and the missed field goal we are talking 40 points in there worst game of the season.
Teams can double and triple Moss all day. Thats what Watson , Stallworth, Welker , Gaffney , Faulk and Maroney are for.
It's funny that you mention the D having a bad day. The eagle's QB was making insane throw after throw...nobody can be that accurate for long--especially the td passes. I don't think the D was that bad. It was the offense that made me wonder.
I referred to this before, that Belichick's play calling looks like it's pulled from the practice rotation. First we'll run 12 passes in a row. Then we'll run 8 playaction passes. Then back to the empty backfield.
It looks like he's just testing or practicing different pass packages or play action packages with scant attention paid to the score or the circumstances of the drive.
Maybe it's just me, but it sure looked like that. That's horrifying in itself for the rest of the league.
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Decker it looked like that to me as well...It was like Philly wasn't there..and AJ and his receivers were making obcene catches
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Body it doesn't help that we're fans of a team that keeps info like their the goddam KGB. Bad news I'm afraid...Chad Brown was sighted near the stadium..great huh?. No word on brown yet.
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Body it doesn't help that we're fans of a team that keeps info like their the goddam KGB. Bad news I'm afraid...Chad Brown was sighted near the stadium..great huh?. No word on brown yet.
Colvin was put on ir. I know this for a fact. People will say it is speculation at this point , its not. very bad news.
Troy Brown was activated and Kareem Brown cut. Def ir for Colvin.
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Yeah I saw it last night on Comcast Sportsnight. Wonderful. They didn't think it was a big deal.
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Yeah I saw it last night on Comcast Sportsnight. Wonderful. They didn't think it was a big deal.
Its a big deal. That said the d has the depth to make up for it. Everyone has injuries.
I expect to see alot more 4 - 3 looks. Thomas can play his natural position. In Belichicks 3/4 no one has gaudy stats due to the "system".
When you saw them in the 4/3 Thomas had 3 sacks among others last week vs buff. The pats line is very deep. They can play both.
If we lose any more backers we have an issue. That said P Woods apparently looked very very good in camp. So we shall see if Beli and co took this into account when building the team.
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I still have no idea why that Gaffney touchdown wasn't reviewed.
As for McNabb...the team just plays better with Feeley in there. The recievers get open, the line protects, and Feeley makes good throws(except the interceptions). McNabb just doesn't have it anymore.
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I still have no idea why that Gaffney touchdown wasn't reviewed.
As for McNabb...the team just plays better with Feeley in there. The recievers get open, the line protects, and Feeley makes good throws(except the interceptions). McNabb just doesn't have it anymore.
It was a td. If you tivo it you can clearly see. As for calls, I have no idea why moss got flagged for offensive pi. He clearly did not push off. Even bonehead Madden said it.
Thats the way off the game. What if's can be applied to everything. What if's are excuses. If teams executed everything they claimed they should have no one would ever lose a game.
The teams who win have less what ifs because they execute better. The ref's , the announcers , and the replay guys upstairs thought it was a td. If Reid thought otherwise he should have tossed his flag. He didn't so thats why there was no review.