Author Topic: Philly had their shot  (Read 7083 times)

Decker

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2007, 07:30:29 AM »
Hey Decker how do you feel about Mcnabbe? Do you think the eagles should trade him?
Let AJ start and maybe look for a new qb?

I thought AJ looked great last night. It could be said that Mccnabe is holding the eagles back a bit.

I thought you where an eagles fan. Maybe it was the cowboys? I know cartel is a cowboys fan.

Of all people I know NE is looking for a trading partner. If they pick second or third overall (sf's pick) The eagles could trade up and take anyone they wanted.

I don't know much about Beck. My apologies if he is the future starter.
I think McNabb is a great quarterback.  Feeley is a journeyman.  In my opinion, there is no comparing the two.  Trading McNabb would be a serious error for Philly.

I was born and raised in Wisconsin.  I cried, at the age of 10, when GB lost its home opener to Chicago in a stinking 6-3 game.  That was in the days when I thought Terdell Middleton was as good as Walter Payton b/c both backs ran for a 1000+ in the previous year.

I've been a GB fan for almost 30 years.  There's no other team for me.

body88

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2007, 07:34:06 AM »
Sorry my mistake. I got the color right. Wrong shade though. I dont know if trading Mccnabe could be such a bad idea.

IMO his inconsistancy is hurting the eagles more then helping them. When he is healthy he can be great , but he gets dinged up all the time.

If Beck is not "the guy" is there a franchise qb in the draft that could be. Brohm and Ryan come to mind.

Decker

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2007, 07:43:56 AM »
Sorry my mistake. I got the color right. Wrong shade though. I dont know if trading Mccnabe could be such a bad idea.

IMO his inconsistancy is hurting the eagles more then helping them. When he is healthy he can be great , but he gets dinged up all the time.

If Beck is not "the guy" is there a franchise qb in the draft that could be. Brohm and Ryan come to mind.
I am horrible at assessing fledgling qb talent.  I look at the winners around the NFL and most of them were not golden boys like Peyton.  The best around are the Bradys, Favres, Warners, Hasselbecks...not exactly first rounders.  It's the biggest crap-shoot position.

Decker

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2007, 07:48:56 AM »
Look at this list:

1. TOM BRADY – Brady had to fight for time at Michigan with Brian Griese.  He was a sixth round pick.  Obviously this guy was not a spoiled college star.  He needed to outwork people to become the best.

2. CHAD PENNINGTON – Played at a small school Marshall.  He has had a ton of injuries.

3. JAKE DELHOMME – I don’t even know what school he came from.

4. TONY ROMO – Undrafted, was a better basketball player than a football player in high school.  Sat on the bench for years. 

5. JEFF GARCIA – Had to go to Canada to get a job.  Small guy who made himself a Pro Bowler.

6. PEYTON MANNING – The only exception on the list.

7. DAVID GARRARD – Played at East Carolina and was a 4th round pick who has spent most of his career as a backup.

8. BEN ROETHLISBERGER – He was a high draft pick, but he also played at Miami of Ohio.  Not THE U, Miami of Ohio.

9. MATT SCHAUB – Sat on the bench behind Michael Vick, was a 3rd round pick and UVA isn’t exactly a hotbed for football.

10. JON KITNA – Central Washington?

11. CARSON PALMER – On the surface he’s an exception.  He was a Heisman Trophy Winner from USC, like Leinart, was the #1 Pick and lived up to expectations.  However, in his first three years at USC Palmer was inconsistent and routinely bashed by the press.  Look through newspapers before the 2002 Season and you won’t see many positive stories about Palmer. 

12. MATT HASSELBECK – He was a 6th round pick who has to deal with premature baldness and his sister-in-law Elisabeth Haselbeck.

13. DONOVAN MCNABB – He was a star in college, a high first round pick and a Pro Bowler, but he’s dealt with a ton of adversity, much of it undeserved, racially motivated criticism.  Most would agree that McNabb has had to work his tail off to get to where he is.

14. BRETT FAVRE – Everyone knows his story.  He had one college scholarship offer and even though he was drafted in the 2nd round, his coach, Jerry Glanville said it would take a plane crash for him to put Favre in the game.  He obviously has had to work incredibly hard to get to where he is.

15. You can extend this list to include virtually every starting QB --- Steve McNair went to Alcorn State, Trent Green was an 8th round pick, Marc Bulger was a 6th round pick, etc.

I could go on and on.  The only Quarterbacks who had big time success at big time college football programs, were high draft picks, and started games this year are Matt Leinart, Rex Grossman, and maybe Philip Rivers.  These 3 are amongst the most disappointing QBs in the early part of 2007 with a combined record of 3-6.

http://accuscore.com/articles/nfl-articles/where-do-great-quarterbacks-come-from?/

headhuntersix

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2007, 07:52:20 AM »
Morning boys...anyway great game and a good wake-up call for the rest of the season. I'm sure BB will be hammering the secondary. This was the type of win we were used to during the 03-04 SB runs. We waited till the other team made mistakes and pounced. It was a courious offensive game plan. Philly blitzed all night and we went 5 wide without alot of play action or runs to slow it down. When they did go play-action it looked effective. Not alot of pressure on Feeley. They have to get Mauroney going. i watched the KC game early. Fargas for Oakland hit those holes very fast, something LM is not doing. While the secondary played poorly, the Philly receivers made great catches. I hope Colvin is ok
L

UPINTHEMGUTS

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2007, 09:08:22 AM »
Jesus Christ. The one week the fucking Pats can't cover the spread in either half and it's got to be against the Eagles with a journeyman quarterback.

At home, no less.

The fuckers.

Tre

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2007, 09:59:36 AM »
The real reason why the pats get so much hate tossed there way is the same reason the Yankees or the Celtics where hated. Because year after year they win. They are always in the mix to win. They always contend. They win superbowls. They make the playoffs every year. Fans of losing teams like you get sick of the pats in the playoffs. Sick of all the superbowls. Its tough to watch your own team lose year after year. Hard to accept the horrible drafts , the terrible gameplans. The endless what if's , or could have beens.

I don't think anyone hated the Patriots until we found out they were cheaters.  C'mon, let's be honest here - they really had become "America's Team" and everyone talked about them as being a 'model franchise' that didn't overpay anyone. 

And the commissioner is in bed with the Patriots' owner. 

"We're going to take away your 1st-round pick."

Oooo, like that hurts at all, given that the Patriots get to keep their pick from San Francisco. 

If anything, my anger stems from the fact that Brady never did jack shit when playing for my fantasy team and now all of a sudden, he's Dan fucking Marino. 

body88

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2007, 10:12:07 AM »
I don't think anyone hated the Patriots until we found out they were cheaters.  C'mon, let's be honest here - they really had become "America's Team" and everyone talked about them as being a 'model franchise' that didn't overpay anyone. 

And the commissioner is in bed with the Patriots' owner. 

"We're going to take away your 1st-round pick."

Oooo, like that hurts at all, given that the Patriots get to keep their pick from San Francisco. 

If anything, my anger stems from the fact that Brady never did jack shit when playing for my fantasy team and now all of a sudden, he's Dan fucking Marino. 

Everyone hated the patriots last year. Also , answer my question. Do you hate the 49ers, the steelers, the broncos , the cowboys or the chargers. All cheaters.

The pats where fined a first round choice for having a "video machine" on the field. The NFL said the pats got no advantage from the confiscated tape , and none of the other things they looked at dating back to 2001 had anything illegal about them. The NFL said that!  If you actually listened to what the NFL said you would see the competitive advantage they got was the video machine itself being on the field. A rule violation that led to a advantage , because you CANNOT have cams on the field. however Goodel said the tape did not lead to any type of advantage. plain and simple those are the facts. The trash talk is nothing more then that , speculation and an attempt to discredit a team that is better then you.


Saying the commish is in bed with he pats when he used to work for the jets is just more nonsense. Really all the cheater talk , and shots at the pats comes from anger and jealousy. I think it is funny personally. How people bash Brady because he had a kid with his gf of 3 years. All that garbage. Pure envy.


If that where not the case everyone would hate the Broncos and every other team I listed about for "cheating" in the NFL.


Btw the way the pats keep the san fran pick not due to the fact they got it easy , the pic was acquired through trade with players and or contracts involved. You cant just untrade players.

Palpatine Q

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2007, 10:51:00 AM »

If I was a defensive coordinator in the NFL I would blitz Brady with as many people as possible while maintaining man coverage. every single play.
And I would do it with fast guys so his receivers wouldn't have the time to get downfield before he got hit.

He's going to complete passes no matter what, so just make sure they're not long ones.


body88

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2007, 11:14:20 AM »
If I was a defensive coordinator in the NFL I would blitz Brady with as many people as possible while maintaining man coverage. every single play.
And I would do it with fast guys so his receivers wouldn't have the time to get downfield before he got hit.

He's going to complete passes no matter what, so just make sure they're not long ones.



If you tried to blitz Brady while leaving only Man coverage on Moss and Stallworth you would lose that game by about 50 points IMO. Moss can score doubled. He has 16 td's being double and tripled teamed all year. You need help from the safety's to cover those two. Even if you could somehow cover Moss and Stallworth man , you would get screen passed to high heaven sending the entire house on every play.

Over the last 11 games the pats offensive line had been nearly impenetrable. Last night the eagles played great. The pats still scored 31 points. With a missed kick and a td called back due to a penalty.

The reason the long ball was not there last night was because of the lack of play action. Coupled with fantastic play on the eagles part. Brady has a perfect qb rating from play action. Hell moss dropped a few deep balls right in his breadbasket. Same with Stallworth.

Forcing the pats to beat you with the short stuff is fine IMO. Before they had deep threat wr's they won sb's with Brady ultra quick release and short passing game. No idea why they didnt run the rock more. People assume the pats don't run it , but they have the 8th best rushing game in the NFL. The colts are at nine who have a great rushing attack. In fact Brady has less pass attempts then Manning this year , which is weird if you think about it.

What the pats did last night was the same game plan as the Minnesota game last year. It was a bad game plan , complimented by the defense just not showing up to play. The eagles played a flawless football game. They played pretty much perfect football. Made every play etc etc. Lets be serious, the eagles are a five and six team. Thats the facts. A five and six NFC team. Either they morphed into the cowboys on steroids, or they played a fantastic game all fired up , while the pats played a pretty poor game.

I am not trying to "diss" the eagles. They played AWESOME. They showed how great there personel and coaching is. Anyone who tells you the pats are unbeatable is a yahoo. This is the NFL. The 85 bears the current greatest team ever lost a game to the phins. They also won many games by close scores. Teams are not going to be driven to win at the absolute highest level every single time out. Its just not possible.

Sheesh the way I sound you would think they lost.

Decker

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2007, 11:55:29 AM »
If you tried to blitz Brady while leaving only Man coverage on Moss and Stallworth you would lose that game by about 50 points IMO. Moss can score doubled. He has 16 td's being double and tripled teamed all year. You need help from the safety's to cover those two. Even if you could somehow cover Moss and Stallworth man , you would get screen passed to high heaven sending the entire house on every play.

Over the last 11 games the pats offensive line had been nearly impenetrable. Last night the eagles played great. The pats still scored 31 points. With a missed kick and a td called back due to a penalty.

The reason the long ball was not there last night was because of the lack of play action. Coupled with fantastic play on the eagles part. Brady has a perfect qb rating from play action. Hell moss dropped a few deep balls right in his breadbasket. Same with Stallworth.

Forcing the pats to beat you with the short stuff is fine IMO. Before they had deep threat wr's they won sb's with Brady ultra quick release and short passing game. No idea why they didnt run the rock more. People assume the pats don't run it , but they have the 8th best rushing game in the NFL. The colts are at nine who have a great rushing attack. In fact Brady has less pass attempts then Manning this year , which is weird if you think about it.

What the pats did last night was the same game plan as the Minnesota game last year. It was a bad game plan , complimented by the defense just not showing up to play. The eagles played a flawless football game. They played pretty much perfect football. Made every play etc etc. Lets be serious, the eagles are a five and six team. Thats the facts. A five and six NFC team. Either they morphed into the cowboys on steroids, or they played a fantastic game all fired up , while the pats played a pretty poor game.

I am not trying to "diss" the eagles. They played AWESOME. They showed how great there personel and coaching is. Anyone who tells you the pats are unbeatable is a yahoo. This is the NFL. The 85 bears the current greatest team ever lost a game to the phins. They also won many games by close scores. Teams are not going to be driven to win at the absolute highest level every single time out. Its just not possible.

Sheesh the way I sound you would think they lost.
They beat a team that's been having a lousy year yet the game could have gone either way. 

I still think that if a team has a strong bumpnrun corner and a hardhitting safety, Moss can be controlled.  I think Wesker is a better receiver than Stallworth.  The blitzing has to be selective yet effective and that's the hard part.

Sometimes it looks like Belichick calls plays just to test his football theories with no reference to the game being played--the constant empty backfield, then the slew of playaction plays etc.

The greatest team I ever saw was the '85 bears.  I mean they just blew through opposing O lines like they weren't there.  The defensive talent on that team was and is unmatched.

body88

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2007, 12:11:07 PM »
They beat a team that's been having a lousy year yet the game could have gone either way. 

I still think that if a team has a strong bumpnrun corner and a hardhitting safety, Moss can be controlled.  I think Wesker is a better receiver than Stallworth.  The blitzing has to be selective yet effective and that's the hard part.

Sometimes it looks like Belichick calls plays just to test his football theories with no reference to the game being played--the constant empty backfield, then the slew of playaction plays etc.

The greatest team I ever saw was the '85 bears.  I mean they just blew through opposing O lines like they weren't there.  The defensive talent on that team was and is unmatched.



And they beat the snot out of 10 other teams , some of which are very good NFL teams. The packers have a joke for a schedule. Aside from Dallas they dont play anyone. They play the scedule that is given to them and they are a damn good team. I could see them in the sb any day of the week. They win and thats all that matters.

Take the redskins game for example. They have everything you just said. Great pash rush , hard hitting physical corners. Physical corners, and they got lit up for 52. All I sam saying is this new blueprint has been going on since the second week in the year. Moss sees double and even triple coverage all the time.

It works , but the pats have to have some sort of monster breakdowns to let it shut them out. Because 31 points ( when they are not playing well)   is enough to win with the pats d if it is playing to its ability. Look at the numbers vs offensive teams far superior to the eagles. They are top 5 in the NFL.

As you saw last night the pats scored 31 points ( minus a missed fg and a called back score) when they had a fired up team playing just about the best smash mouth football you can play.

The pats d had a very bad game last night. Imo that was it was so close. That and the fact the eagles just played so high above there average level this year its almost weird.

headhuntersix

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2007, 12:17:59 PM »
Uusally in these games the offense hasa bad game. Brady had a great game atook what was available. All underneath stuff to a very shifty Welker...Stallworth is fine but needs some space to get rolling..once he does he's very hard to take down. Some of the throws to Moss were easily catchable and he also got that bullshit Offensive PI call. I wish they had run better and screamed each time Brady took off..but all in all the Eagles played great. Reid and company coached them very well and they did all they could. It comes down to something that Body and I have posted since summer camp..who are u going to cover. If u double Moss u need to worry about Stallworth and the TE Watson..if u use the safeties to plug them then u leave Welker or Faulk out of the back field. They picked their poison and almost survived. Hats off to the Eagles.
L

body88

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2007, 12:25:47 PM »
Uusally in these games the offense hasa bad game. Brady had a great game atook what was available. All underneath stuff to a very shifty Welker...Stallworth is fine but needs some space to get rolling..once he does he's very hard to take down. Some of the throws to Moss were easily catchable and he also got that bullshit Offensive PI call. I wish they had run better and screamed each time Brady took off..but all in all the Eagles played great. Reid and company coached them very well and they did all they could. It comes down to something that Body and I have posted since summer camp..who are u going to cover. If u double Moss u need to worry about Stallworth and the TE Watson..if u use the safeties to plug them then u leave Welker or Faulk out of the back field. They picked their poison and almost survived. Hats off to the Eagles.

Its true. They played fantastic. But you and I both know last night the pats d was on vacation and the game plan as a whole was horrendus. They still scored 31.

headhuntersix

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2007, 12:29:08 PM »
Usually when we have these games..Brady is throwing piks, Faulk is dropping balls after 20 yard screens and Watson has balls bouncing off of him. This was different..but after all the break downs in the seconday I just kept waiting for the timely pic and we finally got 2 of them. It was all much like the "old pats. The Philly o line did a great job. Any word on Colvin......
L

Decker

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2007, 12:51:41 PM »


And they beat the snot out of 10 other teams , some of which are very good NFL teams. The packers have a joke for a schedule. Aside from Dallas they dont play anyone. They play the scedule that is given to them and they are a damn good team. I could see them in the sb any day of the week. They win and thats all that matters.

Take the redskins game for example. They have everything you just said. Great pash rush , hard hitting physical corners. Physical corners, and they got lit up for 52. All I sam saying is this new blueprint has been going on since the second week in the year. Moss sees double and even triple coverage all the time.

It works , but the pats have to have some sort of monster breakdowns to let it shut them out. Because 31 points ( when they are not playing well)   is enough to win with the pats d if it is playing to its ability. Look at the numbers vs offensive teams far superior to the eagles. They are top 5 in the NFL.

As you saw last night the pats scored 31 points ( minus a missed fg and a called back score) when they had a fired up team playing just about the best smash mouth football you can play.

The pats d had a very bad game last night. Imo that was it was so close. That and the fact the eagles just played so high above there average level this year its almost weird.
The Redskins were missing dbs when the Pats played them weren't they?

Judging by the Pat's schedule, they played Indy.  One more better team than the Pack will face (both play Dallas).  So much for your strength of schedule argument. 

As for the Pack's schedule...which team was it that sent Philadelphia, New York, and San Diego on their respective slides toward the shitter?....that's right--it was Green Bay.  They also busted up KC and Denver in consecutive away games.  But really, you gotta play who's on the schedule--it's not like they got a choice.  The only falter Green bay had was the 7 point loss to Chicago...for a team that was 8-8 last year, 10-1 is pretty damn good.

Also, Green Bay has two shut down bumpnrun corners in Al Harris and Charles Woodson.  They have a solid defensive line that pressures the quarterback.  They have a couple of hard hitting safeties too.

And they have as deep a wide receiving corp as the Pats do.  Green Bay goes 5 wideouts all the time plus they have a very good tight end.  GB throws the ball deep very well.

Those are the necessary ingredients for beating the Pats. 

How do I know?  B/c I stand by my prediction that Green Bay beats the Pats in the Super Bowl....again.


pumpster

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2007, 12:56:35 PM »
Is this the 'test' that NE has been waiting on all season?  Moot point, but could Philly have beaten NE tonite if McNabb had played?  *doubtful*

Just as with Garcia last year, they had a better shot without McNabb. Last year and this, Philly would be much better off trading McNabb soon for lots of picks, and going in another direction. BTW Rush Limbaugh was right about McNabb, despite all the bad press.

NE's a very good but not great team, at least not yet. Philly, Colts & Dallas have each exploited  various weaknesses with the Pats, but didn't do quite enough to take full advantage. Colts & Dallas still have viable shots at knocking NE off and might have the opportunity to learn from their mistakes later.



Fox Sports

Here's how you beat the Patriots 

Yes, the Eagles almost won. Yes, they became the first big underdog to cover the Vegas spread. But the bottom line remains that New England is still unbeaten and even on one of their worst nights defensively, the Patriots still won. They are a remarkable team although Sunday night they did appear vulnerable to Philadelphia's aggressive tactics.

Here are five things the rest of the NFL can take from the Eagles' "almost" win:

1. Teams must be physical with Randy Moss and the other New England receivers.

Philadelphia's cornerbacks jammed Moss as much as possible at the line of scrimmage and always made sure to bump him within the allowable five yards. Tom Brady still fired 12 passes toward Moss, but he managed only five catches for 43 yards. It was only the second time this season Moss went without a touchdown catch (the Browns allowed him only three receptions in Week 5). Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Johnson designed a defense hoping to negate the big, over-the-top receptions to Moss and it worked.

However, while limiting Moss, it opened up the shorter passing lanes for Wes Welker, who had a career game with 13 catches for 149 yards. Welker was elusive after the catch although he also failed to score a touchdown. So while the strategy worked in slowing down Moss, the Patriots flipped over to Welker and also hit Donte Stallworth for a 31-yard gain. Once again, the Patriots proved they may have too many athletes on offense to ever be totally shut down.

2 You must vary your blitzes on Tom Brady.

The Eagles did a tremendous job in this area while sacking Brady three times. Afterward, Brady admitted he took some of the most physical hits all season in this game. Are we sensing a trend here? Defenses must sell out coverage at times in order to be physical with Brady, Moss and Co. But what helped the Eagles with this game plan was that New England opened in a spread formation and in shotgun. The Patriots passed 25 times and called only two runs in the first half. It's this unbalanced offensive approach that may eventually be New England's undoing.

With Brady working from the shotgun, it helped Philadelphia's pressure because they could time the snap count better. Cadence is an important part of slowing down the rush and Brady could have altered his counts had he been over center. So, essentially, the Patriots played into the Eagles' game plan a little here. Johnson also devised a significant wrinkle to his scheme by using linebacker Chris Gocong as a linebacker/defensive end. Johnson brought an extra blitzer on 50 percent of Brady's 57 pass plays and Gocong fit into that role nicely. It confused Brady at times, leading to sacks and also his season-high 20 incompletions.

3. You must gamble and go deeper with your passing game.

Whether or not you believe A.J. Feeley should be starting over Donovan McNabb in Philadelphia, the important aspect of this game was Andy Reid's belief that the Patriots could be beaten on deep posts and slants. Feeley also played the game with a gunslinger's mentality and that's why he felt he lost the game with his two fourth-quarter interceptions. But up until those late miscues, the Eagles were brazen with their attack and it almost worked.

Without question, Patriots cornerback Asante Samuel is one of the game's best. He proved that with a game-opening touchdown return of an interception. His second interception also sealed the precarious win for the Patriots. But the rest of the New England secondary is not great. Safety Rodney Harrison is better near the line of scrimmage and right cornerback Ellis Hobbs can be beaten. The Eagles consistently found open receivers when New England was using six defensive backs. Now, coach Bill Belichick seemed to think that some of his players were out of position on a couple Philadelphia touchdowns based on his animated sideline behavior.

And, like Jimmy Johnson said on the Fox pregame show, you also have to gamble with onside kicks and on fourth-down possessions. The Eagles did both and were successful. The only way to beat New England is to keep the ball away from Brady ... and if you've got to gamble to do that, then so be it.

4. You must be able to pass block on the edges.

We all thought that New England had a better pass rush than the one they showed against Philadelphia. But the Eagles made sure to protect Feeley, who basically remained steady in the pocket. Yes, he was dropped twice but for only nine yards in losses. Feeley rushed a few throws, but basically the Eagles handled New England's pressure. Outside linebacker Mike Vrabel wasn't causing any havoc and that was a testament to Philadelphia's offensive linemen.

You didn't see Patriot defenders running free at Feeley and knocking him to the ground. He had time to throw. This is a basic premise of pro football and Philadelphia handled New England's front seven better than anyone has all season. And this wasn't some unconventional scheme; the Eagles simply sucked it up and old-timers like Tra Thomas and Jon Runyan played excellent games. Ditto for guard Shawn Andrews. When Feeley ran a quarterback sneak on fourth down, he ran right behind Andrews and converted the first down easily.

5. You need a versatile running back.

I was chastised in some circles for putting Brian Westbrook (and Adrian Peterson) on my midseason All-Pro team, but Westbrook's versatility was critical to Philadelphia's game plan. Westbrook has tremendous explosion, but he's also invaluable in the team concept. He picked up pass rushers when he was supposed to and he didn't whiff on any blocks. Now, Westbrook's overall numbers weren't awesome (92 yards on 24 touches), but he did score a touchdown and kept many a drive alive with a gutsy run or pass reception. And, as usual, Westbrook didn't fumble.



pumpster

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2007, 01:09:52 PM »
The greatest team I ever saw was the '85 bears.  I mean they just blew through opposing O lines like they weren't there.  The defensive talent on that team was and is unmatched.

That Bears team was unbalanced; on defense their DBs were tough but not on par with the line or backers and couldn't handle strong passing teams-Miami that season or the 49ers the preceeding years' playoffs. If Miami makes it to the Super Bowl in '85 they win, IMO. Because of the schedule that year, that weakness wasn't particular noticed or exposed through the season or playoffs.

They were also not the smartest defense, not the way other great defenses were.

The Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys & Dolphins at their peak would beat them.

Quote
I stand by my prediction that Green Bay beats the Pats in the Super Bowl....again.
::)

body88

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2007, 01:24:41 PM »
The Redskins were missing dbs when the Pats played them weren't they?

Judging by the Pat's schedule, they played Indy.  One more better team than the Pack will face (both play Dallas).  So much for your strength of schedule argument. 

As for the Pack's schedule...which team was it that sent Philadelphia, New York, and San Diego on their respective slides toward the shitter?....that's right--it was Green Bay.  They also busted up KC and Denver in consecutive away games.  But really, you gotta play who's on the schedule--it's not like they got a choice.  The only falter Green bay had was the 7 point loss to Chicago...for a team that was 8-8 last year, 10-1 is pretty damn good.

Also, Green Bay has two shut down bumpnrun corners in Al Harris and Charles Woodson.  They have a solid defensive line that pressures the quarterback.  They have a couple of hard hitting safeties too.

And they have as deep a wide receiving corp as the Pats do.  Green Bay goes 5 wideouts all the time plus they have a very good tight end.  GB throws the ball deep very well.

Those are the necessary ingredients for beating the Pats. 

How do I know?  B/c I stand by my prediction that Green Bay beats the Pats in the Super Bowl....again.




So much for my argument? The afc as a whole is better then the NFC. The pats already beat Dallas Bad. Green bay has not even played them yet. You have to wait until the packers actually play them before you compare the two. The pats also played the colts. The packers have a good d, the pats is better vs better offensive opponents. The packers have not faced a prolific offense and or qb yet.

As a whole the pats have faced and destroyed 5 teams that are in the top 10 for total offense in the NFL. Three of those teams in the top 5. The packers have faced zero. As for the chargers the pats sent them on there original slide at the start of the year.

The schedule statement is not to discredit green bay. It is a valid point , who have the packers played? Dallas will tell us the real deal. I think the packers are a fantastic team. Don't get me wrong.

Green bay does not have as a deep a receiving core as the pats. The Cowboys have a better defense then the packers and the pats beat them minus 5 starters.

I'm not saying the packers cant beat the pats , they can. My point is this bump and run blitz talk has been going on since game game 2. Its nothing new , and to this point in its most effective state held the pats to 31 points.

Decker

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2007, 02:07:33 PM »

So much for my argument? The afc as a whole is better then the NFC. The pats already beat Dallas Bad. Green bay has not even played them yet. You have to wait until the packers actually play them before you compare the two. The pats also played the colts. The packers have a good d, the pats is better vs better offensive opponents. The packers have not faced a prolific offense and or qb yet.

As a whole the pats have faced and destroyed 5 teams that are in the top 10 for total offense in the NFL. Three of those teams in the top 5. The packers have faced zero. As for the chargers the pats sent them on there original slide at the start of the year.

The schedule statement is not to discredit green bay. It is a valid point , who have the packers played? Dallas will tell us the real deal. I think the packers are a fantastic team. Don't get me wrong.

Green bay does not have as a deep a receiving core as the pats. The Cowboys have a better defense then the packers and the pats beat them minus 5 starters.

I'm not saying the packers cant beat the pats , they can. My point is this bump and run blitz talk has been going on since game game 2. Its nothing new , and to this point in its most effective state held the pats to 31 points.
I see your points and they are good.  But what AFC superiority?  Outside of NE, Indy, everybody else is mediocre....Jacksonville might come on.

Outside of Dallas and Indy, the Pats have played nobody special.  The top 5 teams in the top 10 of offense is sort of misleading.  The Packers will have faced 3 of the top offensive teams in the NFL.  Green Bay has beaten 3 of the top 10 defensive teams too.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Sun 9/9/2007 1:00 PM @ Jets CBS / WBZ Channel 4   38-14 W
Sun 9/16/2007 8:15 PM vs Chargers NBC / WHDH Channel 7   38-14 W
Sun 9/23/2007 1:00 PM vs Bills CBS / WBZ Channel 4   38-7 W
Mon 10/1/2007 8:30 PM @ Bengals ESPN / WCVB Channel 5   34-13 W
Sun 10/7/2007 1:00 PM vs Browns CBS / WBZ Channel 4   34-17 W
Sun 10/14/2007 4:15 PM @ Cowboys CBS / WBZ Channel 4   48-27 W
Sun 10/21/2007 1:00 PM @ Dolphins CBS / WBZ Channel 4   49-28 W
Sun 10/28/2007 4:15 PM vs Redskins FOX / WFXT Channel 25   52-7 W
Sun 11/4/2007 4:15 PM @ Colts CBS / WBZ Channel 4   24-20 W
Sun 11/11/2007  vs Bye     
Sun 11/18/2007 8:15 PM @ Bills NBC / WHDH Channel 7   56-10 W
Sun 11/25/2007 8:15 PM vs Eagles NBC / WHDH Channel 7   31-28 W
Mon 12/3/2007 8:30 PM @ Ravens ESPN / WCVB Channel 5     
Sun 12/9/2007 4:15 PM vs Steelers CBS / WBZ Channel 4     
Sun 12/16/2007 1:00 PM vs Jets CBS / WBZ Channel 4     
Sun 12/23/2007 1:00 PM vs Dolphins CBS / WBZ Channel 4     
Sat 12/29/2007 8:15 PM @ Giants
________________________

I see a slew of .500 teams above and two good ones.  The Steelers and Giants are a cut above the rest, but not by much.  Nobody can make a 'strength of schedule' argument this year.


Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Jabar Gafney, Donte Stallworth are not, as a group, better than Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Koren Robinson, James Jones and Ruvell Martin. 

Moss is the best.  I think that Driver and Jennings are better than Welker even though Welker has 1000 receptions this year.  I would take GB's 5 wideouts v. the Pats 6 DBs in most situations.  That's my opinion and I base it on past performance, athletic ability, game effect and other intangibles that help me with this argument (that's a joke).

The bumpnrun has been going on against the Pats all year.  But nobody does it as effectively as GB. 

Look, I know the Pats are the best this year, but I don't think they are unbeatable.  And as a GB fan, I pick GB to win it all.  Two years ago this team was 4-12 and life as a GB fan was miserable.  For once, I'm going to the hilt with my support and become a real fan instead of being a disinterested bystander.


body88

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2007, 02:42:35 PM »
I see your points and they are good.  But what AFC superiority?  Outside of NE, Indy, everybody else is mediocre....Jacksonville might come on.

Outside of Dallas and Indy, the Pats have played nobody special.  The top 5 teams in the top 10 of offense is sort of misleading.  The Packers will have faced 3 of the top offensive teams in the NFL.  Green Bay has beaten 3 of the top 10 defensive teams too.

I see a slew of .500 teams above and two good ones.  The Steelers and Giants are a cut above the rest, but not by much.  Nobody can make a 'strength of schedule' argument this year.


Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Jabar Gafney, Donte Stallworth are not, as a group, better than Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Koren Robinson, James Jones and Ruvell Martin. 

Moss is the best.  I think that Driver and Jennings are better than Welker even though Welker has 1000 receptions this year.  I would take GB's 5 wideouts v. the Pats 6 DBs in most situations.  That's my opinion and I base it on past performance, athletic ability, game effect and other intangibles that help me with this argument (that's a joke).

The bumpnrun has been going on against the Pats all year.  But nobody does it as effectively as GB. 

Look, I know the Pats are the best this year, but I don't think they are unbeatable.  And as a GB fan, I pick GB to win it all.  Two years ago this team was 4-12 and life as a GB fan was miserable.  For once, I'm going to the hilt with my support and become a real fan instead of being a disinterested bystander.




I never said they where unbeatable. I said the opposite. I am just debating you. I also complimented green bay as a fantastic team. They can beat the patriots. No one is unbeatble no one.

As for your points.

The packers have played only two top ten offensive team in the eagles, and the broncos and won by three points in each game. The pats have played five. Three of those teams are top five offensive teams. I dont know if you are counting the preseason also , which is irrelevant as teams don't even play there starters for more then a quarter. I only count two teams.

I don't think gb 's receivers are better then the pats for a simple reason. Brady has 39 td's to 4 ints with a rating over 130 with 100 less passing attempts, and a one game handicap compared to Farve. Farve has 22 td's to 8 ints with over 100 more passing attempts and a one less game. Brady is a better qb then Farve , but as a whole I would take Moss and co over gb's squad. Welker is a slot receiver who will go over 1000 yards this season, he already has over 800, Even comparing our slot guy to your number one and two wr is what I am saying.The leading td grabber on the packers only has 2 td's more then NE's slot receiver with 100 more passing attempts and a one game handicap since the pats have played one more game. Stallworth has been used sparingly by design. Donte is unreal after the catch. His speed and ability will be utilized more as teams start to key on Moss more and more.

Moss has 8 times more td's then driver in 100 less passing attempts.


Ben Watson led the league in td's for tight ends before he got hurt. He is back , and he is a big threat. Watson has 4 more td's then Donald Lee with twenty fewer passing attempts. Both have just about the same average.  The pats have the 8th best rushing attack in the NFL and they have yet to really turn up the running game. Green bay is currently ranked 32nd at the worst in the nfl. http://www.nfl.com/stats/team


I see your point with the db's. But over 11 games the pats have a better defensive team then green bay vs better offensive opponents. The pats are ranked at number three total , while the packers are ranked at number 11 with  one less game. Pats pass defense is ranked 8th while gb's is ranked 18th. The pats ahve faced better offensive oppenonts and are ranked much higher vs the pass. Several teams including the pats play better pass defense then the packers.

ry=null&defensiveStatisticCatego ry=TEAM_PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCatego ry=null&defensiveStatisticCatego ry=TEAM_PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find


ry=null&defensiveStatisticCatego ry=TOTAL_YARDS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCatego ry=null&defensiveStatisticCatego ry=TOTAL_YARDS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find

Statistically over 11 games the pats are superior in every offensive and defensive catogory across the board to green bay. The game last night was in no way a barometer of how this team has played on the defensive side of the ball all year. If you would take your guys over the pats guys it would be based on personal preferance because stat wise its not really close. http://www.nfl.com/stats/team



None of this means anything btw. The packers could beat the pats. Just saying. The packers are a great football team and deserve to be on top of the NFC. Just debating.





body88

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2007, 05:19:18 PM »
That Bears team was unbalanced; on defense their DBs were tough but not on par with the line or backers and couldn't handle strong passing teams-Miami that season or the 49ers the preceeding years' playoffs. If Miami makes it to the Super Bowl in '85 they win, IMO. Because of the schedule that year, that weakness wasn't particular noticed or exposed through the season or playoffs.

They were also not the smartest defense, not the way other great defenses were.

The Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys & Dolphins at their peak would beat them.
 ::)




Pumpster remember when we all knew the "blueprint" to knock the colts off last year. Rum , run , run the ball. You said how the d would correct missing those tackles. I told you there was no way a team with that horrid rushing d wins out in the playoffs and I was wrong!

Teams thought , hey if the jags can run it we can run it to!


Granted over the last 11 games the patriots are number three in total defense, top ten in passing defense , top 5 in rushing defense as well as tops in special teams play.

Anyone who has watched this pats team knows the d did not even show up to play last night. This blueprint has been going on all year. The only time it worked was last night.

Worked to the tune of 31 points and a loss for the eagles.

pumpster

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2007, 05:26:39 PM »

Pumpster remember when we all knew the "blueprint" to knock the colts off last year. Rum , run , run the ball. You said how the d would correct missing those tackles. I told you there was no way a team with that horrid rushing d wins out in the playoffs and I was wrong!

Teams thought , hey if the jags can run it we can run it to!

NE has some softness against the run, as demonstrated by Dallas. BTW it's ridiculous that Jones is still playing half of each game when Barber's clearly one of the NFL's best backs for the last couple of years.

And NE's soft against inside throws.

Hard to know if either Dallas or the Colts can do enough to address these weaknesses, but Dallas is improving (Owens has caught up with Moss in receiving) and the Colts are still right there with NE despite the hype about NE this year.

body88

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2007, 05:30:51 PM »
I am perfectly happy with top 5 in rushing defense , the number 8 passing defense and the number three total defense in the NFL.

People saw the d line get no pressure last night, saw the middle of the field left open do to a commitment to take away westbrook and think that is a blueprint. The eagles did zero on the ground last night. I dont think Andy Reid himself would have guessed AJ Freeley would actually play the way he did when dared to beat them through the air. Because thats what they did.

The pats have the number three defense in the entire NFL having played most of the best offensive teams in the NFL today. 3rd fewest points allowed per game.

I think the pats weakness is corrected by better execution.


I think it is laughable that the pats win a close game to move to 11 - 0 and everyone expects them to play there hearts out 100 percent every snap of every game ever. Winning by 700 points of course.





Decker

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Re: Philly had their shot
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2007, 06:24:34 AM »

I never said they where unbeatable. I said the opposite. I am just debating you. I also complimented green bay as a fantastic team. They can beat the patriots. No one is unbeatble no one.

As for your points.

The packers have played only two top ten offensive team in the eagles, and the broncos and won by three points in each game. The pats have played five. Three of those teams are top five offensive teams. I dont know if you are counting the preseason also , which is irrelevant as teams don't even play there starters for more then a quarter. I only count two teams.

I don't think gb 's receivers are better then the pats for a simple reason. Brady has 39 td's to 4 ints with a rating over 130 with 100 less passing attempts, and a one game handicap compared to Farve. Farve has 22 td's to 8 ints with over 100 more passing attempts and a one less game. Brady is a better qb then Farve , but as a whole I would take Moss and co over gb's squad. Welker is a slot receiver who will go over 1000 yards this season, he already has over 800, Even comparing our slot guy to your number one and two wr is what I am saying.The leading td grabber on the packers only has 2 td's more then NE's slot receiver with 100 more passing attempts and a one game handicap since the pats have played one more game. Stallworth has been used sparingly by design. Donte is unreal after the catch. His speed and ability will be utilized more as teams start to key on Moss more and more.

Moss has 8 times more td's then driver in 100 less passing attempts.


Ben Watson led the league in td's for tight ends before he got hurt. He is back , and he is a big threat. Watson has 4 more td's then Donald Lee with twenty fewer passing attempts. Both have just about the same average.  The pats have the 8th best rushing attack in the NFL and they have yet to really turn up the running game. Green bay is currently ranked 32nd at the worst in the nfl. http://www.nfl.com/stats/team


I see your point with the db's. But over 11 games the pats have a better defensive team then green bay vs better offensive opponents. The pats are ranked at number three total , while the packers are ranked at number 11 with  one less game. Pats pass defense is ranked 8th while gb's is ranked 18th. The pats ahve faced better offensive oppenonts and are ranked much higher vs the pass. Several teams including the pats play better pass defense then the packers.

ry=null&defensiveStatisticCatego ry=TEAM_PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCatego ry=null&defensiveStatisticCatego ry=TEAM_PASSING&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find


ry=null&defensiveStatisticCatego ry=TOTAL_YARDS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCatego ry=null&defensiveStatisticCatego ry=TOTAL_YARDS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find

Statistically over 11 games the pats are superior in every offensive and defensive catogory across the board to green bay. The game last night was in no way a barometer of how this team has played on the defensive side of the ball all year. If you would take your guys over the pats guys it would be based on personal preferance because stat wise its not really close. http://www.nfl.com/stats/team



None of this means anything btw. The packers could beat the pats. Just saying. The packers are a great football team and deserve to be on top of the NFC. Just debating.





You really make this board pretty good b/c you know what you are talking about.  That's a good thing. 

Let's face it, the Patriots look unbeatable.  Could the Packers beat them.  Like you said, anything's possible but this Patriot team is in the running for the best of all time.  I'm just trying to make it interesting.  What fun is there in throwing up my hands and stating the obvious?  Thanks for indulging me in that respect.

I cannot make an argument that GB has as good a receiving corps based on the current year's stats.  That is impossible.  So I take a different tact talking about athleticism and anything but stats b/c that's an argument that I can't win.

I'll keep at it though.