The liberal mindset on healthcare

[George Whorewell]

Over the last few days I have casually tuned in to watch the cable news talking heads. Most of them had a member of Congress or the Senate on to discuss Obama care.

One thing I found fascinating was that there were actually some liberal politicians who went on TV and stated unequivocally that healthcare is a "moral" issue, and that being fiscally irresponsible in order to be morally responsible was warranted. These same politicians also made it pretty clear that they didn't care if voting for Obamacare meant they would be voted out of office.

The thing I find surreal about these statements is that liberals have fought tooth and nail for years to keep "morality" out of every single facet of American life. Hardcore pornography is art, birth control-sex ed and laws that make sodomy illegal are all outside the reach of the government according to the liberal mindset. I actually agree with them ( not about the porn, its filthy, but I have the right to watch it). The rule of law in this country has time and time again put forth the following mantra: In America, you cannot legislate morality. Lets also not forget the rabid liberal challenges made over the separation of church and state. Morality: No! Science: Yes! --

However, not in this case. All of a sudden the continued perpatration of the biggest Ponzi scheme on the planet-- IE the US Government, is now a Moral Issue*** My question is this-- When states go bankrupt, people are being put in jail for not buying health insurance and the lower 20% continues to suck the blood out of this country, will it still be a moral issue then? With the state this country is in today, aren't moral and fiscal responsibility one in the same?

[drkaje]

Know how missionaries go to third world countries and convert natives "for their own good"? Same with this bill.... after seeing the light you'll understand how greedy, selfish, hateful and racist it was to work for yourself and not the greater good of all mankind. You'll be broke, of course, but poverty is a small price to pay for the wisdom and compassion which will certainly follow.

[Straw Man]

Over the last few days I have casually tuned in to watch the cable news talking heads. Most of them had a member of Congress or the Senate on to discuss Obama care.

One thing I found fascinating was that there were actually some liberal politicians who went on TV and stated unequivocally that healthcare is a "moral" issue, and that being fiscally irresponsible in order to be morally responsible was warranted. These same politicians also made it pretty clear that they didn't care if voting for Obamacare meant they would be voted out of office.

The thing I find surreal about these statements is that liberals have fought tooth and nail for years to keep "morality" out of every single facet of American life. Hardcore pornography is art, birth control-sex ed and laws that make sodomy illegal are all outside the reach of the government according to the liberal mindset. I actually agree with them ( not about the porn, its filthy, but I have the right to watch it). The rule of law in this country has time and time again put forth the following mantra: In America, you cannot legislate morality. Lets also not forget the rabid liberal challenges made over the separation of church and state. Morality: No! Science: Yes! --

However, not in this case. All of a sudden the continued perpatration of the biggest Ponzi scheme on the planet-- IE the US Government, is now a Moral Issue*** My question is this-- When states go bankrupt, people are being put in jail for not buying health insurance and the lower 20% continues to suck the blood out of this country, will it still be a moral issue then? With the state this country is in today, aren't moral and fiscal responsibility one in the same?

just wondering - do you think we as a people have a right to set guidelines for how business or industries can conduct business in our country?

[Dos Equis]

Over the last few days I have casually tuned in to watch the cable news talking heads. Most of them had a member of Congress or the Senate on to discuss Obama care.

One thing I found fascinating was that there were actually some liberal politicians who went on TV and stated unequivocally that healthcare is a "moral" issue, and that being fiscally irresponsible in order to be morally responsible was warranted. These same politicians also made it pretty clear that they didn't care if voting for Obamacare meant they would be voted out of office.

The thing I find surreal about these statements is that liberals have fought tooth and nail for years to keep "morality" out of every single facet of American life. Hardcore pornography is art, birth control-sex ed and laws that make sodomy illegal are all outside the reach of the government according to the liberal mindset. I actually agree with them ( not about the porn, its filthy, but I have the right to watch it). The rule of law in this country has time and time again put forth the following mantra: In America, you cannot legislate morality. Lets also not forget the rabid liberal challenges made over the separation of church and state. Morality: No! Science: Yes! --

However, not in this case. All of a sudden the continued perpatration of the biggest Ponzi scheme on the planet-- IE the US Government, is now a Moral Issue*** My question is this-- When states go bankrupt, people are being put in jail for not buying health insurance and the lower 20% continues to suck the blood out of this country, will it still be a moral issue then? With the state this country is in today, aren't moral and fiscal responsibility one in the same?

Outstanding commentary George.  That's a great question. 

[240 is Back]

it's moral vs. utilitarian.  It's as simple as that.

it's absolutely correct to invade another nation for oil, bases, etc - in a utilitarian sense.
It's absolutely evil to war for resources - from a moral standpoint.

With healthcare, it's perfectly fine to look at it both ways too.  To let people die needing medical care, is fine in the util sense.  It's evil in the moral viewpoint.

Repubs seem to use the utilitarian sense.
Dems seem to use the moral viewpoint.

[MM2K]

You can and should be able to legislate morality to some extent. Its the morality of the citezines that makes laws enforcable in the first place.

[drkaje]

it's moral vs. utilitarian.  It's as simple as that.

it's absolutely correct to invade another nation for oil, bases, etc - in a utilitarian sense.
It's absolutely evil to war for resources - from a moral standpoint.

With healthcare, it's perfectly fine to look at it both ways too.  To let people die needing medical care, is fine in the util sense.  It's evil in the moral viewpoint.

Repubs seem to use the utilitarian sense.
Dems seem to use the moral viewpoint.

This has nothing to do with morals or utility. It's a fundamental difference in views on the government's role and degree of control over American citizens lives.

[Dos Equis]

This has nothing to do with morals or utility. It's a fundamental difference in views on the government's role and degree of control over American citizens lives.

I agree. 

[Soul Crusher]

I agree. 

I just want to be left the hell alone. 

[Straw Man]

it's moral vs. utilitarian.  It's as simple as that.

it's absolutely correct to invade another nation for oil, bases, etc - in a utilitarian sense.
It's absolutely evil to war for resources - from a moral standpoint.

With healthcare, it's perfectly fine to look at it both ways too.  To let people die needing medical care, is fine in the util sense.  It's evil in the moral viewpoint.

Repubs seem to use the utilitarian sense.
Dems seem to use the moral viewpoint.

Bill Maher had a funny one liner in his last standup special

The next time we go to war for oil .......get some oil

[George Whorewell]

just wondering - do you think we as a people have a right to set guidelines for how business or industries can conduct business in our country?

Yes Straw I do. The key words in the phrase are "WE AS A PEOPLE". In this piece of legislation, the "PEOPLE" are to be found nowhere. The PEOPLE dont want this shit. And to clarify further, I do not believe that the government on any level in this country should go beyond the authority granted by the constitution to regulate anything.

The biggest issue I have with Obamacare is its timing. Right now our country is in an economic freefall. Shooting a government takeover of healthcare into the vein of the tired, angry and largely broke public is tantamount to execution by lethal injection.

[tu_holmes]

When you talk about the people wanting things, do you think the people wanted to free the slaves, or have equal rights for minorities?

I dare say the people didn't want that either, but now you couldn't imagine not having those things.

People often do not want "progressive change", but after it's here, they can't fathom not having them.

[Straw Man]

Yes Straw I do. The key words in the phrase are "WE AS A PEOPLE". In this piece of legislation, the "PEOPLE" are to be found nowhere. The PEOPLE dont want this shit. And to clarify further, I do not believe that the government on any level in this country should go beyond the authority granted by the constitution to regulate anything.

The biggest issue I have with Obamacare is its timing. Right now our country is in an economic freefall. Shooting a government takeover of healthcare into the vein of the tired, angry and largely broke public is tantamount to execution by lethal injection.

how can you tell me it's unconstitutional in the the first paragraph and then in the second paragraph tell me your primary beef is "timing"

btw - if we've had a government takeover of health care then why did healthcare and related stocks go up the last two days. 
shouldn't investors be bailing out due to the imminent takover?

government takeover is a Frank Lunzt talking point

there is no takeover and I'm not going to wring my hands and worry over Republican predictions that the sky is falling

I'm willing to wait to see what happens (like I have a choice either way) and I guess we'll all know sooner or later who is correct and who is full of shit.....and more likely it will something in between to two

[Benny B]

Over the last few days I have casually tuned in to watch the cable news talking heads. Most of them had a member of Congress or the Senate on to discuss Obama care.

One thing I found fascinating was that there were actually some liberal politicians who went on TV and stated unequivocally that healthcare is a "moral" issue, and that being fiscally irresponsible in order to be morally responsible was warranted. These same politicians also made it pretty clear that they didn't care if voting for Obamacare meant they would be voted out of office.

The thing I find surreal about these statements is that liberals have fought tooth and nail for years to keep "morality" out of every single facet of American life. Hardcore pornography is art, birth control-sex ed and laws that make sodomy illegal are all outside the reach of the government according to the liberal mindset. I actually agree with them ( not about the porn, its filthy, but I have the right to watch it). The rule of law in this country has time and time again put forth the following mantra: In America, you cannot legislate morality. Lets also not forget the rabid liberal challenges made over the separation of church and state. Morality: No! Science: Yes! --

However, not in this case. All of a sudden the continued perpatration of the biggest Ponzi scheme on the planet-- IE the US Government, is now a Moral Issue*** My question is this-- When states go bankrupt, people are being put in jail for not buying health insurance and the lower 20% continues to suck the blood out of this country, will it still be a moral issue then? With the state this country is in today, aren't moral and fiscal responsibility one in the same?

Does this long-winded, racist 15 year old fucktard really think anyone is going to read his narcissistic bullshit? Give me a break. Go listen to some Rush Limpballs and SHUT THE FUCK UP. 

[gcb]

I guess they like to pick and choose their battles - leaving someone to die because they can't afford health coverage can rub some people up the wrong way. Obviously some other people think that they somehow deserve to die.

[JohnC1908]

Something else the govt. controls. They've done such a good job with everything else they "regulate/force."

[gcb]

Something else the govt. controls. They've done such a good job with everything else they "regulate/force."

like the recent crash which was caused by unregulation

[JohnC1908]

like the recent crash which was caused by unregulation

Unregulation caused what?

[gcb]

Unregulation caused what?

unregulated lending to homeowners who couldn't really afford the payments. This brought about by the watering down of protections for re-possessing of properties and such - kind of like we'll have our cake and eat it. If they can't pay we repossess the house - only problem when you have a flood of houses repossessed market value crashes when you try and flood the market with these properties to get back the equity, probably have to make more under-regulated home lones then and put yourself in a bigger hole!!!!

[JohnC1908]

unregulated lending to homeowners who couldn't really afford the payments. This brought about by the watering down of protections for re-possessing of properties and such - kind of like we'll have our cake and eat it. If they can't pay we repossess the house - only problem when you have a flood of houses repossessed market value crashes when you try and flood the market with these properties to get back the equity, probably have to make more under-regulated home lones then and put yourself in a bigger hole!!!!

I'm not following you at all here. The subprime problem was initiated by the Feds, but the big banks certainly used the ultimatem to unjustly and dangerously enrich themselves. The Feds passed legislation requiring banks to make a required minimum percentage of their loans to sub prime borrowers in an effort to give everyone the "right" to own a home. Had the likes of Franks, Dodd, Clinton and Bush not directed these banks to make these iffy loans, then perhaps we would not have had the real estate meltdown that caused this recession.

[gcb]

"Observers of the meltdown have cast blame widely. Some have highlighted the practices of subprime lenders and the lack of effective government oversight."

I'm not imagining this - this was on wikipedia - obviously a source of "liberal" bias perhaps.

[drkaje]

unregulated lending to homeowners who couldn't really afford the payments. This brought about by the watering down of protections for re-possessing of properties and such - kind of like we'll have our cake and eat it. If they can't pay we repossess the house - only problem when you have a flood of houses repossessed market value crashes when you try and flood the market with these properties to get back the equity, probably have to make more under-regulated home lones then and put yourself in a bigger hole!!!!

So unregulated lending caused people who couldn't afford houses to buy them?! When there was more regulation people cried tougher lending inherently standards were racist and and kept many minorities from the American dream. You can't have things both ways unless the taxpayer pays.

[Soul Crusher]

"Observers of the meltdown have cast blame widely. Some have highlighted the practices of subprime lenders and the lack of effective government oversight."

I'm not imagining this - this was on wikipedia - obviously a source of "liberal" bias perhaps.

  

The Federal Govt encouraged this behavior in the name of "fairness".  The Federal Reserve also made the money available for these crazy loans when the writing was on the wall.  The Govt created the home inflation and then allowed the subprime loans which were the only way people could afford the monthly payment to compensate for the inflated prices the govt itself caused. 

 

[George Whorewell]

Does this long-winded, racist 15 year old fucktard really think anyone is going to read his narcissistic bullshit? Give me a break. Go listen to some Rush Limpballs and SHUT THE FUCK UP. 

Obviously someone is reading it because you read it dumbass. I am also older than you, which makes your constant references to my age hysterical. Clearly reading isn't your strong suit. Finally, shouldn't you and the rest of the brothers be on a street corner right now celebrating and dancing the same way you guys did when OJ was acquitted and when the LA riots took place? 

Get off my cock you primate.

[Soul Crusher]

Obviously someone is reading it because you read it dumbass. I am also older than you, which makes your constant references to my age hysterical. Clearly reading isn't your strong suit. Finally, shouldn't you and the rest of the brothers be on a street corner right now celebrating and dancing the same way you guys did when OJ was acquitted and when the LA riots took place? 

Get off my cock you primate.

Hopefully obama will end up in jail years from now like OJ did. 

As for your thread GW - liberals are emotional beings first and foremost.