Project Total Conditioning at West Point by Arthur Jones

[dj181]

their str improved 35%-60% but they lost a little muscle and gained a litte fat WTF

thier 40 yard dash improved very slightly and they added an inch and a half to thier vertical jump

but... thier 2 mil run GREATLY IMPROVED they lowered it by 1 and a half min which is... OUTSTANDING

so this training is amazing for cardio and decent for str gains but how the fuck did they not gain and muscle and in fact lose a little

http://www.arthurjonesexercise.com/Athletic/Total.PDF

[IroNat]

Over-training.

Catabolism.

See page 3:  "For all practical purposes..."

Arthur Jones made good machines but didn't know shit about training.

[dj181]

Over-training.

Catabolism.

See page 3:  "For all practical purposes..."

for str and size yes

but not for cardio improvement

i'm only gonna do my intervals once every 6-8 days and maybe even put 10 days btw them

[oldtimer1]

Can't trust the results of anything involved with Arthur Jones. If they improved their run times they were running. No way did doing 12 exercises for one set each gave them a high VO2. One real study that I can look up if you don't believe it said the caloric cost of a typical Nautilus circuit was 174 calories.

[IroNat]

To improve your performance  in the 5k at the swing party do bench presses.

[dj181]

To improve your performance  in the 5k at the swing party do bench presses.

hahaha

that study kinda disproves the polarized training gig

and @ oldtimer AJ is not a liar

[IroNat]

AJ's only made up his training bullshit to sell his uber expensive machines.

But the machines really were good.

And high intensity training was not new.

[dj181]

AJ's only made up his training bullshit to sell his uber expensive machines.

But the machines really were good.

And high intensity training was not new.

yeah but this study showed and proved you could greatly improve aerobic fitness levels through circuit training

[IroNat]

yeah but this study showed and proved you could greatly improve aerobic fitness levels through circuit training

Sure, I would agree you could to an extent.

AJ didn't invent circuit training of course but the Nautilus machine setup would make it easier to do.

All you had to buy were around $40-50k worth of his machines.

Or you could get a few barbells and do a few select exercises.  Cost under a grand.

Or do pushups, squats, and pullups for 20 minutes straight.  Most gyms or outdoor exercise areas in the Army have a pull-up bar so it don't cost nuttin'.

No, instead, spend $40-50k of the taxpayers money on Nautilus machines.

[dj181]

Sure, I would agree you could to an extent.

when i was boxing training in poland my coach had me do plenty of cross shit training

it is very effective for boxing conditioning

[IroNat]

The typical gym today has probably close to a half million dollars of machines.

AJ started the craze.

AJ's salesman (Kim Wood) even went on to become an NFL strength and conditioning coach.

NFL teams got sucked into the hype.  After they caught on to the bs they dropped the methodology.

Thanks for posting the article.  I hadn't seen it.

[dj181]

The typical gym today has probably close to a half million dollars of machines.

AJ started the craze.

Thanks for posting the article.  I hadn't seen it.

you're welcome bro

PEACE BE WITH YOU

[Gym Rat]

The typical gym today has probably close to a half million dollars of machines.

AJ started the craze.

AJ's salesman (Kim Wood) even went on to become an NFL strength and conditioning coach.

NFL teams got sucked into the hype.  After they caught on to the bs they dropped the methodology.

Thanks for posting the article.  I hadn't seen it.

I know Kim well from the old strongman dinners. He would once in a while send me a package in the mail.
On the outside of it he would tape pics of Joe Weider, and old BB's in odd poses (like from Weiders early old Mags).
As a prank to make the mailman wonder "WTF is  up w/ this guy, what is he ordering, ghey stuff"
He and Gary Jones (Arthurs son) started Hammer Strength. Gary was a CAD engineer who did the designs..

[Humble Narcissist]

The typical gym today has probably close to a half million dollars of machines.

AJ started the craze.

AJ's salesman (Kim Wood) even went on to become an NFL strength and conditioning coach.

NFL teams got sucked into the hype.  After they caught on to the bs they dropped the methodology.

Thanks for posting the article.  I hadn't seen it.

Kim Wood was called the Dean of strength coaches because he was the first but the Bengals held on to him for way too long. Through the 90's and into the 2000's he was having his athletes doing ridiculous training that hindered their ability to perform on the field which is probably why the Bengals had two decades of ineptitude and last place finishes.

Chad Johnson said that his first few years in Cincy the WR's were pulling ship anchors and flipping giant tires. He said that on the opening regular season game one year he was sore as hell and could barely get of bed. Once they dumped Wood they started winning.

[IroNat]

Kim Wood was called the Dean of strength coaches because he was the first but the Bengals held on to him for way too long. Through the 90's and into the 2000's he was having his athletes doing ridiculous training that hindered their ability to perform on the field which is probably why the Bengals had two decades of ineptitude and last place finishes.

Chad Johnson said that his first few years in Cincy the WR's were pulling ship anchors and flipping giant tires. He said that on the opening regular season game one year he was sore as hell and could barely get of bed. Once they dumped Wood they started winning.

Interesting stuff.

Wood retarded any NFL team he convinced to go in on the Nautilus training methodology.

Many teams did go for it back in the 70s.

Machine training, while good for physique and rehab, sucks for building real world strength.

What really works is the old basics of free weight squats, power cleans, and pressing of barbells.

One correction.  Kim Wood wasn't the first NFL strength coach.

Alvin Roy is considered to be it.  *(See below post correction)

Roy was known for putting bowls of D-bol tabs on the tables at mealtimes and using free weights.

https://usastrengthcoacheshf.com/member/alvin-roy

[dj181]

Interesting stuff.

Wood retarded any NFL team he convinced to go in on the Nautilus training methodology.

Many teams did go for it back in the 70s.

Machine training, while good for physique and rehab, sucks for building real world strength.

What really works is the old basics of free weight squats, power cleans, and pressing of barbells.

One correction.  Kim Wood wasn't the first NFL strength coach.

Alvin Roy is considered to be it.

Roy was known for putting bowls of D-bol tabs on the tables at mealtimes and using free weights.

https://usastrengthcoacheshf.com/member/alvin-roy

CrossShit training is the best training style to get athletes into condition

Jones hated Roy and he said he was a charletan

[IroNat]

https://www.getbig.com/boards/Themes/default/images/bbc/italicize.gif
CrossShit training is the best training style to get athletes into condition

Jones hated Roy and he said he was a charletan

Correction to my post above.

Alvin Roy was the first pro football strength coach with the San Diego Chargers of the old AFL in 1963.

This was pre-merger with the NFL.

The Chargers were considered the physically strongest team in pro football (undoubtedly helped by their D-bol usage).

He went on to coach the Chiefs later post-merger.

https://usastrengthcoacheshf.com/member/alvin-roy

His pitch to coaches was simple. All one needs is a barbell. Football players should be trained the same way as weightlifters, the strongest men in the world. In 1963 he became professional football's first strength coach with the San Diego Chargers and the first coach to administer (legal and still not stigmatized) anabolic steroids to players. His strength-building program was critical to the Chargers winning the AFL championship that year. Then Roy coached for the Kansas City Chiefs, who won the 1970 NFL Super Bowl; the Dallas Cowboys, who played in the 1976 Super Bowl; and finally the New Orleans Saints and Oakland Raiders.

[MajorDomo]

A couple of hundred pounds of plates, a few bars, a bench and a rack and you can build an incredible physique. Arthur Jones just gaslighted everybody into thinking you needed fancy machines. Great salesman!

[IroNat]

CrossShit training is the best training style to get athletes into condition

Jones hated Roy and he said he was a charletan

Jones would know since he himself was one. 

[IroNat]

A couple of hundred pounds of plates, a few bars, a bench and a rack and you can build an incredible physique. Arthur Jones just gaslighted everybody into thinking you needed fancy machines. Great salesman!

Bill Pearl's account of his dealings with Jones are revealing about the marketing of Nautilus.

They were excellent machines without a doubt.

Jones built a good machine and then had to come up with a way to sell them because buyers balked at spending so much money for something a simple barbell set could do.

Bill Pearl says he helped in that.

Until he came up with the revolutionary training method it was a tough sell.

[dj181]

Jones would know since he himself was one. 

hahahaha

he was approached by both do jooooos and da a-RABS to be a fighter piolet for both by he rejected both of them said both c0cksuckers could not be trusted

he also siad afganistan should be turned into a glass desert

[IroNat]

hahahaha

he was approached by both do jooooos and da a-RABS to be a fighter piolet for both by he rejected both of them said both c0cksuckers could not be trusted

he also siad afganistan should be turned into a glass desert

He would have been a great dictator.

[MajorDomo]

Bill Pearl's account of his dealings with Jones are revealing about the marketing of Nautilus.

They were excellent machines without a doubt.

Jones built a good machine and then had to come up with a way to sell them because buyers balked at spending so much money for something a simple barbell set could do.

Bill Pearl says he helped in that.

Until he came up with the revolutionary training method it was a tough sell.

Yep - "sell the sizzle, not the steak" lol

[BEEFCAKE]

machines are good for legs , worthless for shoulders and arms

[Big Pat]

Kindly take the time to read about Alvin Roy, an interesting fellow to say the least. Heard about him in my early days of training here in San Diego. Never talked to Leo Stern about him but Maylen Wiltse had some kind of connection with him and the Chargers. Maylen put together what was to become Kroger's Gym in El Cajon.


Alvin Roy Award for Career Achievement

National Strength and Conditioning Association
https://www.nsca.com › membership › awards › alvin-r...
This award for career achievement was created in honor of Alvin Roy, who helped establish strength and conditioning as the cornerstone of any athletic ...


Be Safe and Strong.

Big Pat