any slin users here??

[tatoo]

on my way to being lean enough again to use insulin.  I like Humalog at 30iu per day along w 10iu hgh.  how many units are you monsters using??

[ritch]

30 is a good dose and my upper range when I use it. Anything under say 15 does not really do much.

Time to go back on soon...

[tatoo]

30 is a good dose and my upper range when I use it. Anything under say 15 does not really do much.

Time to go back on soon...

what kind of insulin do you use? I was thinking about using humulin r this time.

[ritch]

what kind of insulin do you use? I was thinking about using humulin r this time.

humalin R is my favorite. Humalog is what I may take pre workout then with second post workout meal, a shot of humalin R which will make my next 2 meals more "bodybuilding friendly" I will aim for a big meal while the R peaks, and get my last one 3 hours later and go to bed.

Anything less than a humlog pre workout shot and the R shot taken later will not result in any gains in my case.

[Jizmo]

i use 15iu novolog pre workout

started off at about 10 but right now i cant push it higher
right now im still tinkering with the carb intake
gotten hypo a bazillion times during my workouts. what i found out is that i basically need a CONSTANT carb intake during my workout or ill go hypo..
rapid slin hits me hard from 40mins until about 90mins after injection, thats when im close to hypo all the time
when i dont have any sugar for just 4-5 minutes during that timeframe and do 2-3 sets i instantly go hypo and have to sit it out for a couple mins


what actually works for me is what im doign right now ...
i inject 15iu, drink a big ass whey shake (half liter skim milk, 60g whey, creatine, leucine)
then head to the gym
25-30mins after inject i start my workout
and im basically eating 1-2 pieces of haribo after each set at the gym, lol
for a total of 100g carbs
plus 60g dextrose mixed in my water/tea that i drink during workouts
about 2 hours after the inject im usually back home and eat (about 100g carbs 60g protein and maybe a bit of fat)

haribo is nothing else but glucose-syrup plus sugar so about 70% or so pure dextrose.
couple reasons for that:
-drinking 150g dextrose would be a fucking waste because thats empty calories
-haribo at least tastes good and is the exact same
-i like to eat
-i like to eat sweets
-i get to eat sweets pretty much every day which satisfies my sweet tooth and keeps me from cheating on my diet

[ritch]

I shit you not Jiz, I eat candy pre intra workout as well, lol! 15 units is my sweet spot also pre workout, have gone as high as 30, but the carbs to keep me conscious caused stomach problems.

Time to get back on this stuff...

I love it when out of shape people see me eating candy in the gym, lol, I know it drives them nuts.

[Jizmo]

lmao yeah the faces you get are godlike

by the way, you might actually dont need the post workout shot...

 i dont know why the fuck that happens but rapid acting slin seems to work much longer than its actually present in your blood...

look up glucose infusion rates (the amount of glucose used to keep blood sugar stable after an insulin injection)
they actually stay elevated for 4-5 hours, even though rapid slin is basically out of your system after about 2 1/2 hours

also look at that study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12832307
"Both insulin analogs produced similar serum insulin levels (250-300 pmol/l) at approximately 30 min and disappeared from serum after approximately 4 h. Insulin aspart and lispro had similar effects on glucose and fat metabolism. Effects on carbohydrate metabolism (glucose uptake, glucose oxidation, and endogenous glucose production) peaked after approximately 2-3 h and disappeared after approximately 5-6 h"

weird as fuck, but insulin actually seems to start shuttling carbs when its already out of your system
maybe because it raises the glut4 transport proteins to the cell surface so that cells can soak up glucose better? idk...

ive also gotten hypo a few times about 5 or 6 hours after my injection, when i hadnt eaten for 3 hours since my post workout meal.
i cant really explain how this is possible if the insulin is basically out of your system, but it just seems to work that way.


insulin blood plasma peaks

vs


glucose infusion rates

[ritch]

I take the second with with my SECOND post workout meal for the exact reasons you mention. It's still working, a second shot post workout right away=slin over slin=me feeling fucked up. Not good.

So I let it clear out, can feel normal and take my second shot 6hrs before bed time. I just eat as I normally would as i eat high carb all the time anyways...

This is where personal experience thrives over textbooks, they are good reference points, that's it...

[tatoo]

I get away with 7 grams of carbs per unit and don't go hypo.

[Jizmo]

I get away with 7 grams of carbs per unit and don't go hypo.

depends
i can actually inject up to 10iu and dont eat any carbs at all and my blood sugar doesnt crash when im sitting at home and doing nothing
BUT
this is different if you do that pre workout

i once injected 6 or 7iu pre workout on empty stomach and didnt eat any carbs (i did carry around a powerade of course just in case)
believe me that was probably the most uncomfortable hour of my life
i just wanted to see how my body reacts
i was on the verge of fainting after every single set. extremely hypo all the time, blood sugar mustve been below 40-50 easily all the time, but i didnt carry my glucometer in the gym for obvious reasons lol

that was kind of a self test, i actually pushed through and completed the whole workout, but NEVER AGAIN.

i had only 2 thoughts in my head all the time
- why the fuck are you doing this?
- carbs carbs carbs carbs

[oni]

IIRC insulin doesn't actually store glucose it just triggers GLUT4 to uptake it into the cells
Who knows how long that takes

[heenok]

I have really no clue about slin but im wondering...
What kind of slin do you guys use ? I know theres some fast/long/middle acting types... whats the best for bodybuilding ?
Also when is it optimal to use ? Im guessing peri workout but before/after ?
Slin being a fat storing hormone how do you avoid getting fat on it ? GH or peptides use ? Eating clean carbs ?

also i rarely see slin on steroids selling sites, I know its OTC in the states but where do you get it in the EU ?

[ritch]

I have really no clue about slin but im wondering...
What kind of slin do you guys use ? I know theres some fast/long/middle acting types... whats the best for bodybuilding ?
Also when is it optimal to use ? Im guessing peri workout but before/after ?
Slin being a fat storing hormone how do you avoid getting fat on it ? GH or peptides use ? Eating clean carbs ?

also i rarely see slin on steroids selling sites, I know its OTC in the states but where do you get it in the EU ?

Both Jizmo and I said the types of slin we use.
did you even read our posts??

[Jizmo]

cmon heenok, every single of your questions has been answered in this thread

-only ever use rapid
-humulin-r can have its place pre workout too
-chronic hyperinsulinemia causes insulin resistance, id personally never use anything but rapid
-pre workout or post workout, however pre workout makes much more sense to me
-insulin is not a fat storing hormone. its basically a nutrient transporter
-massive amounts of test and tren
-lol@clean carbs, thats the last thing you want with rapid slin in your blood

btw pretty much every UK source has slin...
just get the penfills and draw with a syringe, no need for a fancy pen.
i actually draw out the whole cartridge with a 3ml syringe, put a 30g needle on top and use that for 20 shots   switch needle maybe every 3-4 injects

[ritch]

IIRC insulin doesn't actually store glucose it just triggers GLUT4 to uptake it into the cells
Who knows how long that takes

My brological guess it... Not long!

[nattybay]

on my way to being lean enough again to use insulin.  I like Humalog at 30iu per day along w 10iu hgh.  how many units are you monsters using??

You can turn pro on that

[Jizmo]

You can turn pro on that

i think in the HIGH pro circuits its more like 30iu per meal, not per day  
ive heard stories about 100+ ius of rapid, mixed with 50iu long acting a day
GH also more in the 20iu range. 10iu maybe if pharma

but yeah nonetheless you probably could turn pro on that

[ritch]

You can turn pro on that

haha, not even close...

[nattybay]

haha, not even close...

Get you hands on something like this, do 10ius 5 on waking and 5 at noon then come back to me.

This is my 30 day supply....will not go beyond 25...

[nattybay]

i think in the HIGH pro circuits its more like 30iu per meal, not per day  
ive heard stories about 100+ ius of rapid, mixed with 50iu long acting a day
GH also more in the 20iu range. 10iu maybe if pharma

but yeah nonetheless you probably could turn pro on that

Slin is something you will start building resistance to unlike hormones. This is the very reason we  keep upping the dosages to get the same benefit over a long period of time

[tatoo]

You can turn pro on that

not when its generic gh brother or 4iu pharm. that's my stack personally. genetics and response to drugs turn you pro. in my case id definatley need more to even become close to pro size

[nattybay]

not when its generic gh brother or 4iu pharm. that's my stack personally. genetics and response to drugs turn you pro. in my case id definatley need more to even become close to pro size

4-6iu pharma is good for base for amateur...now days yes nationals guys are using more than 10iu of hgh

Amount of GH will also depend on joint size ,height, response, your placing on how you look on the show day, family support, mental toughness , who else turned up on stage hat day..of course response is very important however I have not seen one dedicated bodybuilder not respond to good GH at least in terms of putting on mass required to turn pro.


10iu american pharma or swiss pharma or 30 iu generic from trusted source is one hell of an amount to begin with....if you look very very good with that...then either you are doing something terribly wrong or you got shit genetics and it is usually the second case... But you have to be ON all the time 365 days a year

The more HGH you can use..the faster your way to the top...Jumbo being an exception

[Jizmo]

Slin is something you will start building resistance to unlike hormones. This is the very reason we  keep upping the dosages to get the same benefit over a long period of time

wrong... first of all insulin is a hormone.
second thing: insulin resistance is largely dependent on many factors.

chronic hyperinsulinemia causes insulin resistance. high dose growth hormone causes insulin resistance. obesity causes insulin resistance. lack of activity causes insulin resistance.
dieting, working out, being active, calorie restriction etc all strongly increase insulin sensitivity.

the use of rapid acting insulin once, twice or even 3x a day wont do any harm AT ALL regarding insulin resistance...
anything longer than rapid acting analogues - MUCH different story !

its the same as with eating basically - if you chronically elevate insulin levels over baseline (by snacking on sugary shit every 2 hours like the average amerifat) youre gonna get insulin resistant. at least if youre inactive. using a long acting insulin analogue is pretty much the same.

rapid acting insulin does not cause insulin resistance (it may cause beta cell death at EXTREMELY high dosages, which would cause desensitization to insulin. but that does not happen with dosages we use)

[nattybay]

wrong... first of all insulin is a hormone.
second thing: insulin resistance is largely dependent on many factors.

chronic hyperinsulinemia causes insulin resistance. high dose growth hormone causes insulin resistance. obesity causes insulin resistance. lack of activity causes insulin resistance.
dieting, working out, being active, calorie restriction etc all strongly increase insulin sensitivity.

the use of rapid acting insulin once, twice or even 3x a day wont do any harm AT ALL regarding insulin resistance...
anything longer than rapid acting analogues - MUCH different story !

its the same as with eating basically - if you chronically elevate insulin levels over baseline (by snacking on sugary shit every 2 hours like the average amerifat) youre gonna get insulin resistant. at least if youre inactive. using a long acting insulin analogue is pretty much the same.

rapid acting insulin does not cause insulin resistance (it may cause beta cell death at EXTREMELY high dosages, which would cause desensitization to insulin. but that does not happen with dosages we use)

I do not get the same result with 50iu slin which I used to get about a decade back.
How would you explain thif


I stopped competing in 2009 to concentrate more on business.

Been at 220-230 at 6% for many many years now...
Each time I use slin to climb over 240 I need to use more slin than the previous time



I do not read books on drugs so not much technical knowledge ...lol

[Jizmo]

you use high dose GH. 10iu legit pharma GH a day is probably enough to put you in a temporary diabetic state ...
of course genetics play a role too but these GH dosages wreck your fasting blood sugar and insulin sensitivity

GH causes the insulin resistance, not the insulin... unless you use long acting slin too