Oldtimer1

[oldtimer1]

This is great news!

One thing I hope you did was clear which exercises you can do for now, including how much resistance is okay. I'm surprised you did any exercise involving your shoulders. Wouldn't it be better to wait until after you've seen the PT and gotten clearance on what is and what isn't okay?

That makes too much sense Prime.  My work ethic has become obsessive and compulsive.  I egotistically take pride in my appearance and I know at my age I could lose it quick. The doctor did say to use 30% less weight for anything involving the shoulder and take nothing to failure. I'll see what the physical therapist says also. They can't see me for 10 days. I only did physical therapy once when I had a bicep rupture. I wasn't too impressed with what they had me doing there. In other words no magic or secrets. Hoping since the shoulder is such a complicated joint that can move in so many directions they will have some great stretches and rotator cuff ideas. On the internet just today I learned some of their methods but I will wait for what the physical therapists recommends for me. The doctor wrote on the prescription include home exercises for rehab too.

[IroNat]

OT,

You're like an addict who can't give up the pipe.

Take a step back and look at your behavior objectively.  It's foolish.

This is your thread and you can keep posting all this nonsense about hurting yourself training and how you can't stop, you can't rest, you have to look good, etc.

It's a lot of BS.  Attention seeking.  After awhile it becomes whining.

You won't use common sense.  You won't take advices.  Your behavior is like these idiots on here who take all those drugs you rant against.

So, go on and keep f*cking yourself up.  Go for it.

[oldtimer1]

OT,

You're like an addict who can't give up the pipe.

Take a step back and look at your behavior objectively.  It's foolish.

This is your thread and you can keep posting all this nonsense about hurting yourself training and how you can't stop, you can't rest, you have to look good, etc.

It's a lot of BS.  Attention seeking.  After awhile it becomes whining.

You won't use common sense.  You won't take advices.  Your behavior is like these idiots on here who take all those drugs you rant against.

So, go on and keep f*cking yourself up.  Go for it.

Go fuck yourself Iron Nat. I would love to see the shape you're in.  

[Primemuscle]

That makes too much sense Prime.  My work ethic has become obsessive and compulsive.  I egotistically take pride in my appearance and I know at my age I could lose it quick. The doctor did say to use 30% less weight for anything involving the shoulder and take nothing to failure. I'll see what the physical therapist says also. They can't see me for 10 days. I only did physical therapy once when I had a bicep rupture. I wasn't too impressed with what they had me doing there. In other words no magic or secrets. Hoping since the shoulder is such a complicated joint that can move in so many directions they will have some great stretches and rotator cuff ideas. On the internet just today I learned some of their methods but I will wait for what the physical therapists recommends for me. The doctor wrote on the prescription include home exercises for rehab too.

I've had great luck with physical therapy the times I've needed it. Lindsey has been my primary therapist each time I've gone. She's great. She gives a wonderful massage...not too hard and not too light. If you don't think you're getting what you should out of it, tell your therapist. If that doesn't make it better, change your therapist. It's your money. You are the boss.

Ego is good. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be the best you can be, regardless of age. Jeeze, if I can still drag my ancient ass to the gym, you can too. You are just a kid compared to me. Maybe it is just your nature to be obsessive - compulsive. Many people are. Just don't let it make you crazy. Can't tell you how many times I've gotten a few blocks from the house only to turn around and go back by just to make sure I closed the garage door. Now I have an app I can check which is much less bother.

I'm glad you asked you doctor for training advice. You are lucky, some doctors don't know shit about weight training. Seems like yours does.

[oldtimer1]

Did a little cardio today.  Went to a funeral yesterday with a plenty of family then the repast.  We were there for hours seeing relatives and friends we haven't seen in a long time. It was a good send off. So nothing physical yesterday.


Treadmill walking. Put it on a fast walk at 3.8 MPH. Nothing crazy but not slow. I call this work out the ladder. It starts at zero elevation or grade and every lap meaning a quarter mile the elevation is raised 1%.  It's been a very effective workout through the years. I came up with the idea after an arm operation about 15 years ago. I couldn't lift weights. I couldn't jar my arm running. I started walking on a treadmill playing with the elevation. I was on that thing twice a day sometimes. A morning and an afternoon second session. Once the cast and sling came off I went to go for a run and was really surprised how good a shape I was in. It was about two month of this walking routine or so. My blood pressure was 110/65. My resting heart rate was always around 60.  I felt great.

Lap one: zero percent grade-elevation so level ground at 3.8 MPH for a quarter mile.
Lap two: 1% grade/elevation
Lap three: 2% elevation
Lap four: 3%
Lap five: 4%
Lap six: 5%
Lap seven: 6%
Lap eight: 7%
Lap nine: 8%
Lap ten: 9%
Lap eleven: 10%
Lap twelve: 11%
Lap thirteen: 12%
Lap fourteen: 0% grade

Work out took about 55 minutes.  The elevation provides a nice gentle stretch and workout for the calf too.  

[Primemuscle]

Did a little cardio today.  Went to a funeral yesterday with a plenty of family then the repast.  We were there for hours seeing relatives and friends we haven't seen in a long time. It was a good send off. So nothing physical yesterday.


Treadmill walking. Put it on a fast walk at 3.8 MPH. Nothing crazy but not slow. I call this work out the ladder. It starts at zero elevation or grade and every lap meaning a quarter mile the elevation is raised 1%.  It's been a very effective workout through the years. I came up with the idea after an arm operation about 15 years ago. I couldn't lift weights. I couldn't jar my arm running. I started walking on a treadmill playing with the elevation. I was on that thing twice a day sometimes. A morning and an afternoon second session. Once the cast and sling came off I went to go for a run and was really surprised how good a shape I was in. It was about two month of this walking routine or so. My blood pressure was 110/65. My resting heart rate was always around 60.  I felt great.

Lap one: zero percent grade-elevation so level ground at 3.8 MPH for a quarter mile.
Lap two: 1% grade/elevation
Lap three: 2% elevation
Lap four: 3%
Lap five: 4%
Lap six: 5%
Lap seven: 6%
Lap eight: 7%
Lap nine: 8%
Lap ten: 9%
Lap eleven: 10%
Lap twelve: 11%
Lap thirteen: 12%
Lap fourteen: 0% grade

Work out took about 55 minutes.  The elevation provides a nice gentle stretch and workout for the calf too.  

Seems like fun. I like playing around with changing the grade on the treadmill. It helps with the boredom of cardio.

[oldtimer1]

Back and chest: Going for one more week of hard training then going to consult my physical therapist whether it would be a good idea to take a month off of lifting. My orthopedic surgeon said lift 30% lighter for chest and shoulders. Want to hear what the physical therapist says.


Pulldowns with M.A.G. bar supinate 2 x 10 140lbs (upright back and full range of motion. I could use a hell of a lot more if I used the lean back method and stopping 6 inches from the top of my chest but I feel this strict version more.)
Seated lat pulley rows with a V handle 2 x 12 170lbs
Dumbbell rows off a bench 2 x  10 85lbs (all the way out and all the way up)
Hammer strength pulldowns 2 x 10

Hammer incline press 2 x 8 (It just feels like it doesn't follow a natural path yet it does have it's pluses)
Dumbbell inclines 2 x 8 70lbs (strict and slow with a full range. )
Dumbbell flies 2 x 10 45lbs (again strict and slow)
Pulley flies 2 x 12 50lbs per arm

Deadlifts 2 x 4 315lbs ( I really should up the weight. I'm pretty shot at the end of the workout so 315lb feels heavy but I know I should start upping the weight.)
Weighted back hyper extensions 2 x 15 (25lbs plate behind my head. Traditional horizontal hyper bench. The new 45 degree ones are garbage as the resistance goes away at the top of the movement. )

Ab wheel 2 x 22
Ab machine 2 x 20 150lbs

Gym Observation: One of  the most beautiful girls I have ever seen was was working out. She really could be movie star. She was wearing those sheer yoga pants. Every time I tried to check her out I think I got caught. She was doing plenty of bent over hip exercises and every time I tried to get a peek she was looking right at me.  At least she smiled. 

A guy about 71 was telling me about his training life.  His advice is sometimes you have to take a month off.  The alternative is to have a pussy weight month.  He said every body needs a break.

[Obvious Gimmick]

My 2 cents. Move those deadlifts to the front of your session. Easy to get hurt especially if your already burnt.

[oldtimer1]

My 2 cents. Move those deadlifts to the front of your session. Easy to get hurt especially if your already burnt.

I have the opposite opinion but I appreciate your reasoning.  I put them at the end so I'm fatigued and completely warmed up so I will use less weight. When I was younger I always did them first so I could move the most amount of weight. When I got into my late forties I always did my deadlift sets at the end of back day. I always use to end the work out with sets of 405lb but now 315lbs feels heavy especially if I use a slow negative each rep. I find I try to do an exercise in the hardest way and not the easiest because in the end we are trying to stress the body. I do this by emphasizing the negative, moderate cadence and finding the fullest range of motion I can do. It lowers the weight used but in the end it makes a medium weight heavy. One pro that did it that way was Yates regarding putting deadlifts at the end of back day.

[Primemuscle]

I have the opposite opinion but I appreciate your reasoning.  I put them at the end so I'm fatigued and completely warmed up so I will use less weight. When I was younger I always did them first so I could move the most amount of weight. When I got into my late forties I always did my deadlift sets at the end of back day. I always use to end the work out with sets of 405lb but now 315lbs feels heavy especially if I use a slow negative each rep. I find I try to do an exercise in the hardest way and not the easiest because in the end we are trying to stress the body. I do this by emphasizing the negative, moderate cadence and finding the fullest range of motion I can do. It lowers the weight used but in the end it makes a medium weight heavy. One pro that did it that way was Yates regarding putting deadlifts at the end of back day.

Likewise, I do leg presses and squats at the end of my routine. If I did them at the beginning I wouldn't be completely warmed up and I'd probably be too exhausted to complete my routine.

[oldtimer1]

Leg day:

Dumbbell squats 2 x 12 85lbs (held at the sides like a farmer's walk. Upright back and sink the butt bending the legs fully. Never deadlifting the weight. Deep squat every rep)
Hack squat 2 x 12 (ass to grass reps. Might drop these. Felt the hip joint protesting a bit)
Stiff leg dead 2 x 6 210lbs (Touched the top of my feet with the bar each rep)
Leg kick back machine 2 x 12 70lbs (great machine)
Leg extension 2 x 12 150lbs
Leg curl 2 x 12 100

standing calf 2 x 12
seated calf 2 x 15

four way neck 2 x 15-20

Hanging leg raise 2 x 22
Seated knee ins 2 x 25

Rotator work: Saw a guy doing an interesting rotator exercise. Hard to describe. I tried it with very light weight. Seemed to really hit the shoulder right. Used baby weights almost like a warm up. My partially torn rotator cuff handled it well.

[Primemuscle]

Try not going so deep on the hack squats. Might save your hips.

[oldtimer1]

Try not going so deep on the hack squats. Might save your hips.

My reasoning with doing exercise through a full range of motion is common physics 101. A load moved a greater distance is more work. Having said that there might be something to saving aging joints through doing partial range like the majority of all age guys do. The hardest range of say a standing shoulder press is the lowest part. The upper ranges are the easiest. The most dangerous to the joint is the stretch position under load.  Guys that do half rep presses might be saving their joint but then again doing half range motion keeping the humerus parallel to  the ground will also force a guy to use a lot more weight to make it hard when doing half reps. What's the answer?  Don't know.

Prime you might be right.  I think I will just exchange hacks with another movement. 

[Primemuscle]

My reasoning with doing exercise through a full range of motion is common physics 101. A load moved a greater distance is more work. Having said that there might be something to saving aging joints through doing partial range like the majority of all age guys do. The hardest range of say a standing shoulder press is the lowest part. The upper ranges are the easiest. The most dangerous to the joint is the stretch position under load.  Guys that do half rep presses might be saving their joint but then again doing half range motion keeping the humerus parallel to  the ground will also force a guy to use a lot more weight to make it hard when doing half reps. What's the answer?  Don't know.

Prime you might be right.  I think I will just exchange hacks with another movement. 

The answer is that you can save your hip joints or end up having them replaced someday. Shouldn't be a problem, the recovery from hip replacement is usually easier than it is from knee replacement. Then again, sometimes the surgery doesn't leaves you with less mobility. If that happens you won't have to worry about ass to the grass any longer because you won't be able to do it.

[oldtimer1]

The answer is that you can save your hip joints or end up having them replaced someday. Shouldn't be a problem, the recovery from hip replacement is usually easier than it is from knee replacement. Then again, sometimes the surgery doesn't leaves you with less mobility. If that happens you won't have to worry about ass to the grass any longer because you won't be able to do it.

Ever see the video of a person that had to have their knee replacement replaced?  It's brutal. The doc has to use a mini sledge hammer and many whacks to remove the appliance.  I think it inserts into the femur. 

Regarding hip replacement it's so common now with lifters. Some famous names like Grimek, Bass, Ferrigno, Anderson and many others had hip replacement.  Makes me think if all those barbell squats for many decades are grinding the joint to dust.  Then again there are so many people who are completely inactive their whole life that have hip replacement. I know a woman in her late fifties who hasn't done one single form of exercise since high school who had to have both hips replaced. Maybe there is a problem with decades of heavy squats and deadlifts being bad for the joints but on the other hand doing absolutely nothing promotes weak bone deteriorating joints too. 

[Primemuscle]

Ever see the video of a person that had to have their knee replacement replaced?  It's brutal. The doc has to use a mini sledge hammer and many whacks to remove the appliance.  I think it inserts into the femur. 

Regarding hip replacement it's so common now with lifters. Some famous names like Grimek, Bass, Ferrigno, Anderson and many others had hip replacement.  Makes me think if all those barbell squats for many decades are grinding the joint to dust.  Then again there are so many people who are completely inactive their whole life that have hip replacement. I know a woman in her late fifties who hasn't done one single form of exercise since high school who had to have both hips replaced. Maybe there is a problem with decades of heavy squats and deadlifts being bad for the joints but on the other hand doing absolutely nothing promotes weak bone deteriorating joints too. 

My sister-in-law had one of her hips replaced she's always been very active, but has not lifted weights. She says the surgery reduced a lot of the pain she was having. My brother-in-law had one or both of his hips replaced. He's a big (not fat) dude. 6'4" and probably 260 lbs. He's had nothing but trouble with the replaced hip joints. Some people get osteoarthritis in their joints when the get older and some don't. 

[oldtimer1]

Cardio day:

Treadmill walking. It's pouring outside.  I walked at 3. 8 MPH. Every quarter mile lap I went up a 1% grade or elevation. Started at zero and went up to 12% grade. After hitting 12% I did the final lap at 0% grade. Decided to remind my legs that it's just not for walking. At the end I  ran a quarter mile at 8.6MPH or 6:59 pace. After that  a cool down lap.  I totaled 4 miles.

No hitting the bag after as is my custom. Too much shoulder pain.  

Going to a fine Italian restaurant after my part time job tonight for a late night candle lit pre Valentine dinner with my wife. Every time I'm out of state away from NY/NJ Italians I can't find a decent Italian restaurant. I remember being in South Carolina where a NJ Italian opened a small Italian restaurant. I was so excited to go. It tasted like he wasn't using garlic and the sauce was sweet. I asked him about it and he said Southerners don't have any refinement. They use to complain about the food until he "Kraft" it up for them. Even food from North Jersey in general differs from south Jersey.  I think the best restaurant experiences are in fairly urban areas where immigrants settled. In Asbury Park near me an Ethiopian restaurant opened. No clue what that is?  Roast Zebra?  I have to give it a shot.  In NJ in Newark they have the Iron Bound section where the Portuguese settled. The best restaurants in my life are there. Maybe the classiest too. Brazilians are moving to the area too and they have their own restaurants. When I want just a great steak and potatoes you can't beat some of the NY Irish restaurants. One in particular is amazing. I love hearing the Irish accents but just a little concerned about the Irish mob that has rumored to be infiltrating Hell's kitchen area. Enough about food. Getting hungry. Where's my bag of gummy bears?

Gym observation from today.  I train in a gym that has serious members but the morning crowd also has a ton of old people. They sure love to chat more than they work out.  I find I have to avoid some of them. They sure slow up a workout. One guy in particular one time actually did two sets in one hour.  There are a few hard core seniors. One is 74 and is just amazing. Lean and almost ripped. Has a young man's voice. He is not big. Maybe a very conditioned 155lbs. Concerned about the heavy weights he uses. I asked him about his training and he told me he has his limitations but works around them. Could have fooled me. He does stuff like pull ups then swings his body horizontal and does rows from the chin up bar facing the ceiling. I'm like damn!  He does sprint intervals on the treadmill like a young man.  He will either live to be a healthy 90 or drop dead tomorrow. I've always been of the opinion it's not the length of life but how many years you are active and healthy. Some 90 year olds have been weak and frail for 40 years.  

[AbrahamG]

I've had great luck with physical therapy the times I've needed it. Lindsey has been my primary therapist each time I've gone. She's great. She gives a wonderful massage...not too hard and not too light. If you don't think you're getting what you should out of it, tell your therapist. If that doesn't make it better, change your therapist. It's your money. You are the boss.

Ego is good. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be the best you can be, regardless of age. Jeeze, if I can still drag my ancient ass to the gym, you can too. You are just a kid compared to me. Maybe it is just your nature to be obsessive - compulsive. Many people are. Just don't let it make you crazy. Can't tell you how many times I've gotten a few blocks from the house only to turn around and go back by just to make sure I closed the garage door. Now I have an app I can check which is much less bother.

I'm glad you asked you doctor for training advice. You are lucky, some doctors don't know shit about weight training. Seems like yours does.

Does Lindsey have nice tits?

[Primemuscle]

I wouldn't know she always kept her blouse on. 

[oldtimer1]

A physical therapist giving massages? Never thought a physical therapist who goes through 6 to 7 years of school giving massages.

[Primemuscle]

A physical therapist giving massages? Never thought a physical therapist who goes through 6 to 7 years of school giving massages.

It's not like a regular massage, it is very specific. The last time my doctor prescribed physical therapy, it was for my lower back. That was the only area she massaged, mainly to loosen the tension in the muscles. She also facilitated stretching movements. Regular exercises, moist heat application and Tens therapy were usually setup and managed by assistants. I don't think it would be prudent to have just anyone massage sensitive areas, such as the back and spine.

Sometimes I have complete whole body deep tissue massages by a licensed massage therapist who is also a friend. He went to college and does continuing education to maintain his license. This is different from what a physical therapist does.

My primary care physician is a DO. Doctors of osteopathic medicine have medical school training including a focus on the muscular and skeletal systems to treat problems throughout the body. In my opinion a DO is preferable to a chiropractor. DOs are also less likely to treat every ailment by prescribing medications. Dr. Young has "popped" my back in place more than a few times. Unlike a chiropractor, one manipulation is often enough to fix the problem, whereas many chiropractors will set you up with appointments on a continuing schedule.

[oldtimer1]

Trained delts and arms: Going to take a couple weeks off of lifting. Only cardio. My body is breaking down. I start physical therapy for the shoulder Monday. Going to concentrate on giving the body a break from lifting and trying to improve my V02. When I get back to lifting it will be baby weights with a slow progression back. Going to see if two weeks off gives me some relief. If it does I might stretch it to two more weeks for a month. If two weeks show no improvement I will get back to the surgeon. 

[Primemuscle]

Trained delts and arms: Going to take a couple weeks off of lifting. Only cardio. My body is breaking down. I start physical therapy for the shoulder Monday. Going to concentrate on giving the body a break from lifting and trying to improve my V02. When I get back to lifting it will be baby weights with a slow progression back. Going to see if two weeks off gives me some relief. If it does I might stretch it to two more weeks for a month. If two weeks show no improvement I will get back to the surgeon. 

Wise man!

[oldtimer1]

Doing mild cardio and stretching. Walked fast for 90 minutes today. Also working on flexibility.  I had my first day of physical therapy. The Physical therapist who has his PHD said shockingly that he read the notes from the Orthopedic Surgeon but something else is going on in addition to the partially torn rotator cuff. He said I do have a partially torn rotator cuff but my strength in what is still attached is excellent. He said the pain is coming from impingement.  He talked at length the tests he did and the symptoms I exhibit. He said the tendon is being crunched and is being inflamed causing a lot of pain. He said the good thing is that MRI shows a partially torn rotator cuff but testing its strength is excellent to reiterate. Seeing this guy three times a week. I will see how it progresses. No lifting for now.


I'm reading everything I can about impingement and lifting. There is a guy on youtube who was the physical therapist for the NY Mets. He's an avid lifter.  His site on youtube is AthleanX. I use to watch his videos and thought it was just a gimmick and foolishly disagreed with a lot of what he had to say. Wow, was I wrong. Now from what I have learned from reading, talking to my orthopedic surgeon and physical therapist is that he really makes a lot of sense. So much of what we do in lifting could be improved but we rely on empirical knowledge gained from the champs. Considering how many have wrecked shoulders like Arnold, Zane, Stallone, Draper, Ferrigno, Corney and so many more maybe we can learn something from these new age experts.  One thing I won't do again is dumbbell flies for the chest.  Better ways to do it with cables and that technique is on the site Athlean X. Another thing that aggravates impingement are stuff like upright rows and dumbbell side laterals for delts. The best way is not to pretend to pour a pitcher of water. Stuff like that are not good for delt health. Seen the best way is to bend over slightly and keep the thumb up and that opens up the shoulder instead of crunching the tendon.  Just little tricks of kinesiology matters.  Another example is benching. Keeping the elbows out while benching has been called the bodybuilding method to build big pecs. The safer method is to keep the elbows closer to the sides of your body like power lifters do. This old dog is learning new tricks. Just learned a new way to curl that I never thought of.  Also learned of new way to train the rear delt that is healthier for the delt. I will save it for another post.

[njflex]

Doing mild cardio and stretching. Walked fast for 90 minutes today. Also working on flexibility.  I had my first day of physical therapy. The Physical therapist who has his PHD said shockingly that he read the notes from the Orthopedic Surgeon but something else is going on in addition to the partially torn rotator cuff. He said I do have a partially torn rotator cuff but my strength in what is still attached is excellent. He said the pain is coming from impingement.  He talked at length the tests he did and the symptoms I exhibit. He said the tendon is being crunched and is being inflamed causing a lot of pain. He said the good thing is that MRI shows a partially torn rotator cuff but testing it's strength is excellent to reiterate. Seeing this guy three times a week. I will see how it progresses. No lifting for now.


I'm reading everything I can about impingement and lifting. There is a guy on youtube who was the physical therapist for the NY Mets. He's an avid lifter.  His site on youtube is AthleanX. I use to watch his videos and thought it was just a gimmick and foolishly disagreed with a lot of what he had to say. Wow, was I wrong. Now from what I have learned from reading, talking to my orthopedic surgeon and physical therapist is that he really makes a lot of sense. So much what we do in lifting could be improved but we rely on empirical knowledge gained from the champs. Considering how many have wrecked shoulders like Arnold, Zane, Stallone, Draper, Ferrigno, Corney and so many more maybe we can learn something from these new age experts.  One thing I won't do again is dumbbell flies for the chest.  Better ways to do it with cables and that technique is on the site Athlean X. Another thing that aggravates impingement are stuff like upright rows and dumbbell side laterals for delts. The best way is not to pretend to pour a pitcher of water. Stuff like that are not good for delt health. Seen the best way is to bend over slightly and keep the thumb up and that opens up the shoulder instead of crunching the tendon.  Just little tricks of kinesiology matters.  Another example is benching. Keeping the elbows out while benching has been called the bodybuilding method to build big pecs. The safer method is to keep the elbows closer to the sides of your body like power lifters do. This old dog is learning new tricks. Just learned a new way to curl that I never thought of.  Also learned of new way to train the rear delt that is healthier for the delt. I will save it for another post.

Excellent read...I have had similar pain recently delt RIght side.doing what you did and tried around it best I can.worked around the pain ,did not shut it down like you.probably should of .made some adjustments and recently improved enough to get presses back up dB for chest and fr press .lost a bit of strength but not enough to hurt my ego,had to let it go.