Epic Tool "Squatting"

[Overload]

My personal belief is that federations that allows for more than one layer gear and squatting out of monolifts and "parallell" lifts, they're making a joke out of powerlifting.

Why?

For one: Fat people get more from lifting gear. Meaning if you find a real fatass, and train him into reasonable shape, he'll be able to squat some serious poundage within a year if he can use a monolift, briefs, canvas, the clown squatting depth, and everything else that these feds puts up out.

Nobody would be happier than me if everything except a belt would be banned in powerlifting.

Sure, it will take some serious poundage of the squats and the benchpresses. But all lifts will be legit lifts.

And no more of these lardasses like Rychlak being hailed as a world class lifter.


troponin mentioned that it was unjust to call Graalfs a tool. I don't see it that way.

How anyone could compete in a high-squat, multi-ply fed is beyond my comprehension.

Graalfs could compete in a single-ply fed, with legit squat depth. He doesn't.

-Hedge

Excellent post!

i agree 100%.

[Deadpool]

he's bound together like someone caught inside a big ball of elastics

[troponin]

My personal belief is that federations that allows for more than one layer gear and squatting out of monolifts and "parallell" lifts, they're making a joke out of powerlifting.

Why?

For one: Fat people get more from lifting gear. Meaning if you find a real fatass, and train him into reasonable shape, he'll be able to squat some serious poundage within a year if he can use a monolift, briefs, canvas, the clown squatting depth, and everything else that these feds puts up out.

Nobody would be happier than me if everything except a belt would be banned in powerlifting.

Sure, it will take some serious poundage of the squats and the benchpresses. But all lifts will be legit lifts.

And no more of these lardasses like Rychlak being hailed as a world class lifter.


troponin mentioned that it was unjust to call Graalfs a tool. I don't see it that way.

How anyone could compete in a high-squat, multi-ply fed is beyond my comprehension.

Graalfs could compete in a single-ply fed, with legit squat depth. He doesn't.

-Hedge

The fact is, the multi-ply feds are going to be putting up the biggest numbers.  The biggest numbers are going to draw the best competition.  The best competition is going to draw the biggest paychecks (no matter how small they may actually be in powerlifting). 
If you want to compete against the best, you're pretty much going to have to compete in those feds. 

There are going to be a few people like Coan or Siders who don't compete there frequently, but the Kennerly's, the Bolton's, Beni's, Mendelson's, Mason's, Turtianian's, Kroczaleski's, and many many other great lifters are going to be doing the multi-ply meets. 

There will always be raw shows, and things like the NERB's that allow those lifters to lift without equipment. 

It's just how it is going to be.

And, I do think Graalf's squat was high.  I just don't see the point in calling him a tool.   

[The Squadfather]

The fact is, the multi-ply feds are going to be putting up the biggest numbers.  The biggest numbers are going to draw the best competition.  The best competition is going to draw the biggest paychecks (no matter how small they may actually be in powerlifting). 
If you want to compete against the best, you're pretty much going to have to compete in those feds. 

There are going to be a few people like Coan or Siders who don't compete there frequently, but the Kennerly's, the Bolton's, Beni's, Mendelson's, Mason's, Turtianian's, Kroczaleski's, and many many other great lifters are going to be doing the multi-ply meets. 

There will always be raw shows, and things like the NERB's that allow those lifters to lift without equipment. 

It's just how it is going to be.

And, I do think Graalf's squat was high.  I just don't see the point in calling him a tool.   

i agree here Justin, Graalf's squat was a good deal high no doubt but to call the guy a tool is stupid, he's obviously a very strong guy and probably can squat at least mid 800's to legal depth with a belt and wraps only.

[Vet]

The fact is, the multi-ply feds are going to be putting up the biggest numbers.  The biggest numbers are going to draw the best competition.  The best competition is going to draw the biggest paychecks (no matter how small they may actually be in powerlifting). 
If you want to compete against the best, you're pretty much going to have to compete in those feds. 

There are going to be a few people like Coan or Siders who don't compete there frequently, but the Kennerly's, the Bolton's, Beni's, Mendelson's, Mason's, Turtianian's, Kroczaleski's, and many many other great lifters are going to be doing the multi-ply meets. 

There will always be raw shows, and things like the NERB's that allow those lifters to lift without equipment. 

It's just how it is going to be.

And, I do think Graalf's squat was high.  I just don't see the point in calling him a tool.   

Thats is my attitude about it too.   Sure, someone using double ply briefs and a triple ply canvas suit will  lift more than what they could in a single ply brief and a poly suit, but the bottom line is that there are federations allowing that type of equipment and the guys in them are putting up big numbers.  Big numbers make money.  There is no way around it.  The RAW competions will draw crowds too, but if you make everyone lift raw, I bet you will see the numbers of competitors and people watching drop.  Hell, if you made it so you could only use a belt, I wouldn't be lifting myself because of my knees.  I wrap with anything over 500 lbs and refuse to squat heavy without the knee support. 

I say respect the lifters for what they do--the people lifting in the heavy weight gear are getting under some insane weight, the people in the single ply poly gear are flat out strong and the people lifting RAW are in a league all their own.   

I really have he biggest issue with the depth of that squat.  It wasn't anywhere near deep enough in my opinion.  It should have been redlighted, but it wasn't.   The judges passing lifts like this are the ones that need to be yelled at, not the lifters who are following the rules of the federation they lift in. 

[troponin]

The judges passing lifts like this are the ones that need to be yelled at, not the lifters who are following the rules of the federation they lift in. 

agreed.

[Hedgehog]

The fact is, the multi-ply feds are going to be putting up the biggest numbers.  The biggest numbers are going to draw the best competition.  The best competition is going to draw the biggest paychecks (no matter how small they may actually be in powerlifting). 
If you want to compete against the best, you're pretty much going to have to compete in those feds. 

There are going to be a few people like Coan or Siders who don't compete there frequently, but the Kennerly's, the Bolton's, Beni's, Mendelson's, Mason's, Turtianian's, Kroczaleski's, and many many other great lifters are going to be doing the multi-ply meets. 

There will always be raw shows, and things like the NERB's that allow those lifters to lift without equipment. 

It's just how it is going to be.

And, I do think Graalf's squat was high.  I just don't see the point in calling him a tool.   

One thing: I cannot understand why you mention Turtiainen like he's some big time lifter.

Turtiainen failed to match the best Finnish elite lifters, so he jumped into the multi-ply fed djungle, also starting off his own brand, METAL, they make very high quality lifting gears BTW.

This example focuses on one important thing: The best lifters aren't necessarily lifting in these feds with ridiculous rules.

You claim people want to see big numbers.

If you were only allowed a belt for support, the numbers would go down, it would also mean that powerlifting wouldn't be a sport where fat pieces of shit compete at the Pizza buffet or have beer drinking contests during lifting seasons.

It would make the powerlifting a real sport, and only those who had the desire and talent, could prevail.

None of this weekend warrior shit, with once a week training and the occasional benchpress session.

Wade Hooper is dead serious about powerlifting.

He's an example for each and everyone to follow.

-Hedge

[Vet]

One thing: I cannot understand why you mention Turtiainen like he's some big time lifter.

Turtiainen failed to match the best Finnish elite lifters, so he jumped into the multi-ply fed djungle, also starting off his own brand, METAL, they make very high quality lifting gears BTW.

This example focuses on one important thing: The best lifters aren't necessarily lifting in these feds with ridiculous rules.

You claim people want to see big numbers.

If you were only allowed a belt for support, the numbers would go down, it would also mean that powerlifting wouldn't be a sport where fat pieces of shit compete at the Pizza buffet or have beer drinking contests during lifting seasons.

It would make the powerlifting a real sport, and only those who had the desire and talent, could prevail.

None of this weekend warrior shit, with once a week training and the occasional benchpress session.

Wade Hooper is dead serious about powerlifting.

He's an example for each and everyone to follow.

-Hedge

I thought Ano totaled elite before he jumped to the WPO and part of the reason he jumped was because of that triceps tear and to market his clothing/gear...... .but I may be wrong. 



Hedge, why not just make your statement by lifting with the gear you want to?   If you don't like gear, then lift in a federation that doesn't allow it.  Find competitions that only allow belts if thats what you want to do.   Thats what I think is really the good thing about how powerlifting is set up right now with multiple federations and different degrees of gear that is allowed. (I know, I'm sorta grasping for straws with that statement, but bear with me).  You can lift RAW, you can lift in single layer poly gear, or you can go all out and go for the canvass super-gear.   Then you walk away knowing that you've done the best that you can do with the gear/equipment you have chosen to use.  You've got that choice.    I personally have never used more than a single layer pair of briefs and a poly suit and a single layer denim shirt (which I don't like so I'm switching back to poly).  Why?  Because its the choice I've made with the equipment I want to use. 

The "fat pieces of shit" attitude is all wrong if you ask me too.  No matter how you put it, fat doesn't lift the weight, muscle does.   When have 275 lb and above powerlifters ever been considered "skinny"?   

To me the bottom line is that the lifts meet legitimacy for technique---ie that squat of Justins was too high in my opinion.   It shouldn't have counted.  Thats the real point of argument, not the fact he had on a canvass suit.  He was following the rules of the federation he was lifting in in terms of gear used.  You can't fault him for that.  Fault the judges for white lighting a lift that shouldn't have passed. 

[Hedgehog]

I thought Ano totaled elite before he jumped to the WPO and part of the reason he jumped was because of that triceps tear and to market his clothing/gear...... .but I may be wrong. 



Hedge, why not just make your statement by lifting with the gear you want to?   If you don't like gear, then lift in a federation that doesn't allow it.  Find competitions that only allow belts if thats what you want to do.   Thats what I think is really the good thing about how powerlifting is set up right now with multiple federations and different degrees of gear that is allowed. (I know, I'm sorta grasping for straws with that statement, but bear with me).  You can lift RAW, you can lift in single layer poly gear, or you can go all out and go for the canvass super-gear.   Then you walk away knowing that you've done the best that you can do with the gear/equipment you have chosen to use.  You've got that choice.    I personally have never used more than a single layer pair of briefs and a poly suit and a single layer denim shirt (which I don't like so I'm switching back to poly).  Why?  Because its the choice I've made with the equipment I want to use. 

The "fat pieces of shit" attitude is all wrong if you ask me too.  No matter how you put it, fat doesn't lift the weight, muscle does.   When have 275 lb and above powerlifters ever been considered "skinny"?   

To me the bottom line is that the lifts meet legitimacy for technique---ie that squat of Justins was too high in my opinion.   It shouldn't have counted.  Thats the real point of argument, not the fact he had on a canvass suit.  He was following the rules of the federation he was lifting in in terms of gear used.  You can't fault him for that.  Fault the judges for white lighting a lift that shouldn't have passed. 

I see your point, I really do.

The main problem is that these feds that guys like Graalfs lift in allow higher squats to begin with.

USPF (not drug tested) and USAPL (drug tested) both requires below parallell squat depth.

Why change that?

Maybe shot put should be done with a 2 lbs lighter shot in some liberal federation? I'm sure you'd see lots of world records there then.

To me, Graalf's squat in itself is just a sign of the times. Something is wrong with powerlifting.

I am happy to see the recent support that RAW and single-ply contests has gained.

Also, let me clarify my statement regarding Ano somewhat: He's a good lifter no doubt. But not great.

As far as lifting gear goes, he's probably the best in the business today. METAL is easily the best lifting gear IMO.

I don't agree with lifting in a non-tested federation though. But that's a different issue.

Let me also address the fat piece of shit thing: I am of the belief that a guy with high bodyfat percentage gets more out of lifting gear than someone with low bodyfat.

I remember a few years ago, Westside had a fat kid they called "Tilt". He was obese like hell, weighed over 440 lbs, but with a lifting suit and benchpress shirt he was able to produce some big squats and benchpresses.

If the lifting gear was prohibited, or at least very limited, obesity wouldn't be favored, supported.

Powerlifting would be more athletic.

In short: More Kazmeiers - less Jeff Lewises.

-Hedge

[Vet]

I see your point, I really do.

The main problem is that these feds that guys like Graalfs lift in allow higher squats to begin with.

USPF (not drug tested) and USAPL (drug tested) both requires below parallell squat depth.

Why change that?

Maybe shot put should be done with a 2 lbs lighter shot in some liberal federation? I'm sure you'd see lots of world records there then.

To me, Graalf's squat in itself is just a sign of the times. Something is wrong with powerlifting.

I am happy to see the recent support that RAW and single-ply contests has gained.

Also, let me clarify my statement regarding Ano somewhat: He's a good lifter no doubt. But not great.

As far as lifting gear goes, he's probably the best in the business today. METAL is easily the best lifting gear IMO.

I don't agree with lifting in a non-tested federation though. But that's a different issue.

Let me also address the fat piece of shit thing: I am of the belief that a guy with high bodyfat percentage gets more out of lifting gear than someone with low bodyfat.

I remember a few years ago, Westside had a fat kid they called "Tilt". He was obese like hell, weighed over 440 lbs, but with a lifting suit and benchpress shirt he was able to produce some big squats and benchpresses.

If the lifting gear was prohibited, or at least very limited, obesity wouldn't be favored, supported.

Powerlifting would be more athletic.

In short: More Kazmeiers - less Jeff Lewises.

-Hedge

Wasn't there some guy at the 'Bama APF contest up by Gadsden this last month who totaled over 2000 raw?   

[Hedgehog]

Wasn't there some guy at the 'Bama APF contest up by Gadsden this last month who totaled over 2000 raw?   

Yep, Beast Wilkerson.

-Hedge

[Vet]

Yep, Beast Wilkerson.

-Hedge

Yeah, thats his name.   That is impressive as hell. 

[phreak]

Let me also address the fat piece of shit thing: I am of the belief that a guy with high bodyfat percentage gets more out of lifting gear than someone with low bodyfat.

[self-pwning]

I'm fat, and I easily get a lot out of gear. Even if it is extremely loose (I can put on my F6 in about 20 seconds by myself) I get 50-60 Lbs out of it. This is without training for shirted benching. Doing that, the difference grows to 80-90 Lbs after only a few weeks. All because of compression of fat mass -- because it sure isn't my pussy triceps doing the pushing!

[/self-pwning]

[troponin]

One thing: I cannot understand why you mention Turtiainen like he's some big time lifter.

Turtiainen failed to match the best Finnish elite lifters, so he jumped into the multi-ply fed djungle, also starting off his own brand, METAL, they make very high quality lifting gears BTW.

This example focuses on one important thing: The best lifters aren't necessarily lifting in these feds with ridiculous rules.

You claim people want to see big numbers.

If you were only allowed a belt for support, the numbers would go down, it would also mean that powerlifting wouldn't be a sport where fat pieces of shit compete at the Pizza buffet or have beer drinking contests during lifting seasons.

It would make the powerlifting a real sport, and only those who had the desire and talent, could prevail.

None of this weekend warrior shit, with once a week training and the occasional benchpress session.

Wade Hooper is dead serious about powerlifting.

He's an example for each and everyone to follow.

-Hedge

I don't quite know what you're trying to say? 

Turtaininen is one of the best lifters at 275 in the WPO, which is what federation he lifts in. 
I know you love Wade Hooper, you bring him up in every post.  I think he's a great lifter too, one of my favorites to watch lift. 

You choose what fed to compete in, and you compete under those rules.  I have no problem at all with you not liking the equipment, not liking the judging, or anything. 
But, he didn't pass his lift.  The judges did. 
If you thought Ronnie Coleman should have won the O last year, you don't start a thread about Jay Cutler stating "Epic TOOL doing bbing."   

[Hedgehog]

I don't quite know what you're trying to say? 

Turtaininen is one of the best lifters at 275 in the WPO, which is what federation he lifts in. 
I know you love Wade Hooper, you bring him up in every post.  I think he's a great lifter too, one of my favorites to watch lift. 

You choose what fed to compete in, and you compete under those rules.  I have no problem at all with you not liking the equipment, not liking the judging, or anything. 
But, he didn't pass his lift.  The judges did. 
If you thought Ronnie Coleman should have won the O last year, you don't start a thread about Jay Cutler stating "Epic TOOL doing bbing."   

Ok.

You got me.

I have a problem with lifters who chooses to compete in high-squat, multi-ply feds.

Their numbers dwarfs the numbers put up by Kaz, Kuc or Reinhoudt. You explain to me the logic in that.

-Hedge

[eliscominblue]

ok, ok.  This is what it comes down to:  When someone who is not from our tiny powerlifting world asks Gene Rychlak how much he bench's he says what? 1020lbs??...........or does he go into the long explanation of what a bench shirt is, how it works and what he can do without the shirt etc.?  I doubt he says anything other than his "WR" number and this is what is wrong with the sport....

[MisterMagoo]

ok, ok.  This is what it comes down to:  When someone who is not from our tiny powerlifting world asks Gene Rychlak how much he bench's he says what? 1020lbs??...........or does he go into the long explanation of what a bench shirt is, how it works and what he can do without the shirt etc.?  I doubt he says anything other than his "WR" number and this is what is wrong with the sport....

can you say that with any authority? gene's a stand-up fella and i have zero doubts that he would at least offer a perfunctory explanation about his bench shirt.

there are two sports in my opinion: raw powerlifting and equipped powerlifting. both are incredibly difficult, both require a fuck ton of strength, and i agree that the judging is pretty hazy on lifts but i think that's not the fault of the gear or the lifters, it's judges who pass shit lifts, sort of the reverse of the USAPL dicks who redlight solid lifts.

and for the record, single-ply feds are for pussies who want to get the benefits from gear but still act like they're a part of the raw crowd. either take off the suit or quit pretending and pick up a t-rex.

[Hedgehog]

can you say that with any authority? gene's a stand-up fella and i have zero doubts that he would at least offer a perfunctory explanation about his bench shirt.

there are two sports in my opinion: raw powerlifting and equipped powerlifting. both are incredibly difficult, both require a fuck ton of strength, and i agree that the judging is pretty hazy on lifts but i think that's not the fault of the gear or the lifters, it's judges who pass shit lifts, sort of the reverse of the USAPL dicks who redlight solid lifts.

and for the record, single-ply feds are for pussies who want to get the benefits from gear but still act like they're a part of the raw crowd. either take off the suit or quit pretending and pick up a t-rex.

Single-ply is for pussies?

I agree that we would be much better off in the IPF if it was belt-only.

Some steps are taken in that direction, with IPF limiting the sturdyness of the material in the shirts next year, next step is doing the same in the suits and the wraps.

But I don't see how single-ply is pussy. The heaviest part of the lift is the bottom, the hole. That's what the APF and WPO has tried to eliminate with extra equipment and high squats.

And as far as "USAPL dicks" redlighting solid lifts... How many USAPL meets have you attended?


One day you will too be a fan of powerlifting with as little equippment as possible.

I'm sure you could become a good raw benchpresser as well. It just takes time for tall people to fill out the frame.

-Hedge

[phreak]

And as far as "USAPL dicks" redlighting solid lifts... How many USAPL meets have you attended?

Indeed. Maybe Dutch refs are unusually lax, but I have never seen this in the past. And I've been to quite a number of meets. In my IPF lifting days I have only been red-lighted 3 times, and all three were my own fault.

[BM OUT]

Another non sense thread."It aint powerlifting if it aint raw",thats the single dumbest assanine,stupid thing Ive ever read.Ed Coan isnt powerlifting?Capt. Kirk isnt powerlifting?Brad Gillingham isnt powerlifting?This debate is silly.The "single ply of today,is like the double ply of a few years ago.Take a look at the USAPL bench numbers.You mean to tell me these guys just got so freaking strong?It isnt the gear?Geeze,there was a time when a 2300 pound total in the IPF would make you a God,now its ordinarry.I guess the "single ply" gear has nothing to with it.

Now,a couple of other facts.The USPF allows 2.5 meter wraps and they should.How is it fair that a guy like Wade Hooper gets to wear the same size wraps as a Jeff Lewis?Hooper would get three times as many revolutions out of the wrap then Lewis.Why penalize the bigger lifter.Number two,the USPF allows a squat bar.Why make a huge guy squeeze under a regular Texas powerbar.This sport is for big people,not midgets.

Lastly,Justins lift was high,but why blame him?Lifters lift,judges judge.Get pissed  at the slack judging not the lifter.If it was red lighted no one would have had a peep to say about it.However,this is the reason,Im going back to the USPF.Im sick of the internet icons who NEVER have the balls to compete but bash those who do.Guys who couldnt squat 400,never mind 900-1200 KNOCKING BIG LIFTS.However,even if I lift well in the USPF,Im sure some internet idiot will still find a reason to bash.

[Hedgehog]

Another non sense thread."It aint powerlifting if it aint raw",thats the single dumbest assanine,stupid thing Ive ever read.Ed Coan isnt powerlifting?Capt. Kirk isnt powerlifting?Brad Gillingham isnt powerlifting?This debate is silly.The "single ply of today,is like the double ply of a few years ago.Take a look at the USAPL bench numbers.You mean to tell me these guys just got so freaking strong?It isnt the gear?Geeze,there was a time when a 2300 pound total in the IPF would make you a God,now its ordinarry.I guess the "single ply" gear has nothing to with it.

Single ply and raw isn't the same thing. You know that.

I would definitely be in favor of heavier regulation of the equipment. Lets get back to less material, more lifting. That way, the lifts and records of our time would be comparable to the lifts of Karwoski, Hamman, Kuc and the other greats.

Now,a couple of other facts.The USPF allows 2.5 meter wraps and they should.How is it fair that a guy like Wade Hooper gets to wear the same size wraps as a Jeff Lewis?Hooper would get three times as many revolutions out of the wrap then Lewis.Why penalize the bigger lifter.Number two,the USPF allows a squat bar.Why make a huge guy squeeze under a regular Texas powerbar.This sport is for big people,not midgets.

As far as the wraps goes.. A fat guy with a big belly like Jeff Lewis, will get a lot more from the suit. Do you think lighter lifters should be allowed to wear double-ply and briefs to compensate for the lack of fat on their bodies?

Lastly,Justins lift was high,but why blame him?

The judges are to blame as well. But ultimately, it's about where a lifter decides to compete. Is it in a federation like USPF or USAPL with real squat depth or is it in some bogus lifting organisation that just wants to be able to post record big numbers?

Lifters lift,judges judge.Get pissed  at the slack judging not the lifter.If it was red lighted no one would have had a peep to say about it.However,this is the reason,Im going back to the USPF.Im sick of the internet icons who NEVER have the balls to compete but bash those who do.Guys who couldnt squat 400,never mind 900-1200 KNOCKING BIG LIFTS.However,even if I lift well in the USPF,Im sure some internet idiot will still find a reason to bash.

Great to see you going back to the USPF. I'm sure you'll see many more follow suit, sick of the multi-ply's and the extra equipment.

Good luck at your meet, I'm sure you'll do well. At least in the deadlift.

-Hedge

[BM OUT]

I cant speak for anyone else,but I left because the USPF died in CT.There were no meets.I then lifted in the USPF in Maine,but Russ Barlow switched his meets to APF.I certainly would NEVER lift in a drug free fed,as I think thats isnt powerlifting,so what choice did I have.Fly to West Virginia to lift in a local meet?The APF and IPA are a hell of a lot of fun with a bunch of good guys.Every time I have atteneded a USAPL meet,all I meet are assholes.Sorry,Id rather have fun.

[MisterMagoo]

Single-ply is for pussies?

I agree that we would be much better off in the IPF if it was belt-only.

Some steps are taken in that direction, with IPF limiting the sturdyness of the material in the shirts next year, next step is doing the same in the suits and the wraps.

But I don't see how single-ply is pussy. The heaviest part of the lift is the bottom, the hole. That's what the APF and WPO has tried to eliminate with extra equipment and high squats.

And as far as "USAPL dicks" redlighting solid lifts... How many USAPL meets have you attended?


One day you will too be a fan of powerlifting with as little equippment as possible.

I'm sure you could become a good raw benchpresser as well. It just takes time for tall people to fill out the frame.

-Hedge

zack, why are you taking potshots and assumptions? moreover your post doesn't make sense because i said that i train raw and enjoy training raw. i even said i think it should be raw or multi-ply, when the hell did i say i don't like unequipped powerlifting? 

yes, single-ply feds are for pussies. they want to have their cake and eat it too, by way of having less equipment than the WPO/APF lifters, but still getting support and thus inflated numbers. a titan F6 gives more support than old double denims but somehow kenneth sandvick's bench record (which is probably broken by now) was considered more "legit" than gene's. it's still equipped and it's still a false number.

the only difference is that with single-ply feds the amount of support is heavily skewed toward the smaller/weaker lifters. why? simple: single-ply equipment has an upper limit of support it can give. if you have a 315 raw max, that tight-ass F6 is going to make your shirted max almost impossible to touch with (i know a guy who couldn't get weight to his chest with one, yes single ply), whereas a guy like siders is hardly going to struggle to get his top weight down.

as a result, weaker dudes get a FAR higher percentage of support than the stronger, making the whole thing unfair as hell. in a multi ply fed, everyone gets to use gear that's as tight or as strong as you can get it while still allowing you to (ideally) hit parallel or touch your chest. any complaints on that front is the fault of the judges, not the fed itself.

and i've seen enough videos from USAPL meets where a guy paused on his chest and got the lift, but it was redlighted for an imperceptible uneven lockout. or a dive-bomb squat way below parallel that had no business not getting all three whites. randall truscott ran into the same problem at an IPF meet, going about six inches below and the lift getting turned down. total BS.

[Hedgehog]

zack, why are you taking potshots and assumptions? moreover your post doesn't make sense because i said that i train raw and enjoy training raw. i even said i think it should be raw or multi-ply, when the hell did i say i don't like unequipped powerlifting? 

yes, single-ply feds are for pussies. they want to have their cake and eat it too, by way of having less equipment than the WPO/APF lifters, but still getting support and thus inflated numbers. a titan F6 gives more support than old double denims but somehow kenneth sandvick's bench record (which is probably broken by now) was considered more "legit" than gene's. it's still equipped and it's still a false number.

the only difference is that with single-ply feds the amount of support is heavily skewed toward the smaller/weaker lifters. why? simple: single-ply equipment has an upper limit of support it can give. if you have a 315 raw max, that tight-ass F6 is going to make your shirted max almost impossible to touch with (i know a guy who couldn't get weight to his chest with one, yes single ply), whereas a guy like siders is hardly going to struggle to get his top weight down.

as a result, weaker dudes get a FAR higher percentage of support than the stronger, making the whole thing unfair as hell. in a multi ply fed, everyone gets to use gear that's as tight or as strong as you can get it while still allowing you to (ideally) hit parallel or touch your chest. any complaints on that front is the fault of the judges, not the fed itself.

and i've seen enough videos from USAPL meets where a guy paused on his chest and got the lift, but it was redlighted for an imperceptible uneven lockout. or a dive-bomb squat way below parallel that had no business not getting all three whites. randall truscott ran into the same problem at an IPF meet, going about six inches below and the lift getting turned down. total BS.

How do you mean I take pot shots?

And what assumptions? I wondered what you based your red lighting statement on, that was all.

As far as the uneven lockout rule, I am in favor of removing it altogether actually. I wouldn't be surprised if it was. There has been a few rule changes as of late in the USAPL, some done to get rid of the extreme arches (like press command), some done to make the sport more logical.

I don't agree with all of these changes, but as a whole, the IPF is moving in the right direction.

IPF in Sweden is generally very consistant. If there are red lights, you will definitely know why.

It's the same depths as back in the 70-80's and the 90's.

-Hedge

[MisterMagoo]

How do you mean I take pot shots?

And what assumptions? I wondered what you based your red lighting statement on, that was all.

As far as the uneven lockout rule, I am in favor of removing it altogether actually. I wouldn't be surprised if it was. There has been a few rule changes as of late in the USAPL, some done to get rid of the extreme arches (like press command), some done to make the sport more logical.

I don't agree with all of these changes, but as a whole, the IPF is moving in the right direction.

IPF in Sweden is generally very consistant. If there are red lights, you will definitely know why.

It's the same depths as back in the 70-80's and the 90's.

-Hedge

you made assumptions on what type of powerlifting i'm a fan of. i was merely saying that either you go APF style or raw, somehow you took that to believe that i only endorse all-out gear feds despite my earlier admission that i enjoy raw lifting better.

the uneven lockout rule is a good one, but it should only apply to severe cases. minor wobble is unavoidable because no one has a symmetrical body. it's sort of like hitching your pull. if you lean back a lot it'll touch your thighs, but as long as you aren't using the lean to take the weight off you're good.

i'm not a fan of the arch removal, though. not because it inflates numbers, after all the best shirted and raw benchers have far less arch than many (chabot, henderson, rychlak, kennelly), but because not arching kills my shoulders.

belly benching only really comes about in geared lifting, there aren't many lifters who touch their stomachs in a raw press. siders at the NERB was right on his sternum when he got the 625 and he does a belly sink frequently in training. i bench to the bottom of my sternum roughly but in a shirt it was lower than that.