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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: James on October 01, 2009, 06:03:53 AM
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But they do vote!
Does anyone else see the problem?
47% pay no taxes, but have an equal vote that says how much the other 53% have to pay in supporting them
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm
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The 53% make some good money from the stocks they own when the other 47% spend.
So maybe a 15% tax on everything we buy wuld solve all the probs?
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so people who dont pay income tax should not be able to vote eh?
good stuff.
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so people who dont pay income tax should not be able to vote eh?
good stuff.
No representation without taxation!
People who pay no taxes are always going to vote for the guy who promises more free stuff from the taxpayers.
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No representation without taxation!
im pretty sure we're taxed to shit here in ny already
sales tax is fucking 9 percent
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im pretty sure we're taxed to shit here in ny already
sales tax is fucking 9 percent
No kidding, I live in Westchester and we are officially the highest taxed county in the nation now!
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But they do vote!
Does anyone else see the problem?
47% pay no taxes, but have an equal vote that says how much the other 53% have to pay in supporting them
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm
I think I have the answer - appoint a military dictator, invade other countries and then steal their resources, remove citizens rights and protections, make the rich richer and call anyone who opposes you unamerican.
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This is a real problem...everyone that earns above the poverty level should pay kind of some tax. Maybe not a lot but some. Then they have skin in the game when it comes to decisions on taxation and gov spending.
Thats bullshit. People that work and own a home get f-cked, even worse if you also own a business.
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what happened to all the libertarians who didn't believe in over taxing? Shouldn't you all be singing the praises of those who haven't paid? Isn't that what you all want to become?
Or is it you feel everyone should contribute to society in the form of taxes?
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what happened to all the libertarians who didn't believe in over taxing? Shouldn't you all be singing the praises of those who haven't paid? Isn't that what you all want to become?
Or is it you feel everyone should contribute to society in the form of taxes?
Everyone who earns income should pay something.
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Everyone who earns income should pay something.
That is what i believe but aren't you part of the chorus who champion no taxes?
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That is what i believe but aren't you part of the chorus who champion no taxes?
No, I want as low taxes as possible spread out as wide as possible and as shallow as possible.
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No, I want as low taxes as possible spread out as wide as possible and as shallow as possible.
agree.
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"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage. "
Alexander Tytler
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"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage. "
Alexander Tytler
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No, I want as low taxes as possible spread out as wide as possible and as shallow as possible.
Amen. The key to getting a lot of tax revenue is to have a low rate and a wide base.
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Yeah, I believe taxes are needed but only necessary taxation. We have allowed our government to spend way more than it was ever intended. These guys, on both sides of the isle, have little fiscal responsibility. The democrats are probably worse in general but look at spending under Bush. Taxation should be capped. We need to limit the amount of $ the government can spend since they cannot limit themselves.
Taxes began as a way to fund things like infrastructure, protection of the nation, services to veterans, temporary assistance for those who fell on hard times, a net for old retired citizens who paid their dues, police/fire/emergency services, etc. Then the expanded government in many directions and we are funding shit that the gov was never intended to fund. The amount of aid we give to other countries is appauling when people are starving here and real unemployment is 10-17%. The amount of defence spending is outrageous, entitlement spending out of hand...pet projects, pork, the U.N., the list goes on and on
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Amen. The key to getting a lot of tax revenue is to have a low rate and a wide base.
The stooges around here don't grasp basic economics and instead choose to hurl insults like romper room kids when they lose a debate on the merits.
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Where does this hysteria come from?
It can't be based in reality.
Why are Americans so hysterical about "the poor" getting too much? Hysterical about "the poor" having things too easy? Hysterical about the "the poor" receiving handouts?
Hate to be the bringer of facts... but you guys need to check your definitions.
It's "THE RICH" who have too much. It's "THE RICH" who have things too easy. It's "THE RICH" who receive the handouts.
How can you guys be so delusional as to believe the poor have too much and the rich too little?
The Luke
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Where does this hysteria come from?
It can't be based in reality.
Why are Americans so hysterical about "the poor" getting too much? Hysterical about "the poor" having things too easy? Hysterical about the "the poor" receiving handouts?
Hate to be the bringer of facts... but you guys need to check your definitions.
It's "THE RICH" who have too much. It's "THE RICH" who have things too easy. It's "THE RICH" who receive the handouts.
How can you guys be so delusional as to believe the poor have too much and the rich too little?
The Luke
No one is saying that the poor are getting "too much". We're talking about paying taxes. We want the poor to succeed. They cant achieve that by the rich being punished. The rich supplys thier income through thier spending and investing. Why do you say that the rich have too much? They cant get rich unless they produced enough to get rich.
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disgusting thread
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No one is saying that the poor are getting "too much". We're talking about paying taxes. We want the poor to succeed. They cant achieve that by the rich being punished. The rich supplys thier income through thier spending and investing. Why do you say that the rich have too much? They cant get rich unless they produced enough to get rich.
..totally delusional.
The Luke
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Luke your so fucking stupid it makes me sick to my stomach.
First of all politicians don't give a shit about the poor, the want to keep them poor, so they are dependant on government ( tax payer ) hand outs. That way they will all ways vote for the jerk off who is going to promise them the most "free stuff" from the government (tax payer).
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Luke your so fucking stupid it makes me sick to my stomach.
First of all politicians don't give a shit about the poor, the want to keep them poor, so they are dependant on government ( tax payer ) hand outs. That way they will all ways vote for the jerk off who is going to promise them the most "free stuff" from the government (tax payer).
...I think you'll find that the rich own the political system, not the poor.
So, if politicians keep the poor poor as yo contend, by your reasoning the rich are the cause of poverty... which was MY point.
Logic strikes again.
The Luke
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...I think you'll find that the rich own the political system, not the poor.
So, if politicians keep the poor poor as yo contend, by your reasoning the rich are the cause of poverty... which was MY point.
Logic strikes again.
The Luke
I see you are prepared to take another beating Luke?
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But they do vote!
Does anyone else see the problem?
47% pay no taxes, but have an equal vote that says how much the other 53% have to pay in supporting them
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm
If you're factually right, then yes it's a big problem.
I believe in progressive tax. But everyone needs to be part. Even those who are net receivers. Otherwise the system will crack.
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If you're factually right, then yes it's a big problem.
I believe in progressive tax. But everyone needs to be part. Even those who are net receivers. Otherwise the system will crack.
This is why I favor a sales tax based system.
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This is why I favor a sales tax based system.
I don't. that would mean something like slapping a 50 percent tax on products and services. That would effectively punish trade and consumption.
Incomes, properties and shares are areas where taxes can be implemented to some degrees.
Of course a sale tax has to take some part of the tax burden.
I agree with you there 336. But I think it should play smaller part.
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Luke you really are neck in neck with Mons and Samson as the dumbest person to post on this board.
This argument is not about rich and poor you dolt. The rich can afford to be taxed in excess and the poor don't pay taxes. The middle class ends up getting fucked in this whole equation. It's the family with two kids making 85k that loses out, its the young professional that just got his first raise, its the widow in her mid sixties looking to retire and collect the pension she earned after working for 40 years.
If the rich, as you claim control the political system, then why on earth would they allow themselves to be taxed at all?-- especially for the benefit of the poor who are dependant on handouts derived from tax revenue taken from the more productive members of society?
I have provided this argument 10000 times and nobody on this website or anywhere else has been able to counter it at all. If the taxation system in this country degenerates further under Obama and the democrats ( which it will) and 60% don't pay taxes, how will the dems be voted out of office? Tax breaks= Votes
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Everyone over the poverty line needs to pay some taxes. This bullshit where they are eliminating people from the taxation pool is absurd. Completely sets up class warfare and provides no incentives for low income people to improve their economic standing or create anything. They are not making the pie bigger.
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you believe any form of taxes, lets say an income tax, creates incentive for those in the lower socioeconomic brackets?
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you believe any form of taxes, lets say an income tax, creates incentive for those in the lower socioeconomic brackets?
All taxes are a disincentive, but some are necessary to fund the govt. High taxes destroy incentives to work, especially for the poor and middle class since most of their income is on a W2 and not offset by deductions, etc.
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This argument is not about rich and poor you dolt. The rich can afford to be taxed in excess and the poor don't pay taxes. The middle class ends up getting fucked in this whole equation. It's the family with two kids making 85k that loses out, its the young professional that just got his first raise, its the widow in her mid sixties looking to retire and collect the pension she earned after working for 40 years.
If the rich, as you claim control the political system, then why on earth would they allow themselves to be taxed at all?-- especially for the benefit of the poor who are dependant on handouts derived from tax revenue taken from the more productive members of society?
...I understand your argument, and I understand why you believe it to be valid.
But your argument is based upon assumptions that are wholly wrong.
Look at the portions of your post that I have highlighted: totally divorced from reality.
The rich can afford to be taxed in excess and the poor don't pay taxes.
...this is totally wrong. The poor pay the vast majority of the tax burden.
Inflation is a tax on the poor and those who do not own major assets.
Wealth appropriation is one of biggest forms of taxation. It is implemented by the rich as a weapon against the poor: common wealth is redistributed as private personal wealth to the rich. Seeing as the poor don't have private wealth or the ability to accumulate it (due to inflation), the common wealth is all they have, and this common wealth is what is being appropriated by the rich.
If you add inflation and wealth appropriation together it effectively constitutes a tax on the poor which dwarfs all other taxes combined.
The middle class ends up getting fucked in this whole equation. It's the family with two kids making 85k that loses out, its the young professional that just got his first raise, its the widow in her mid sixties looking to retire and collect the pension she earned after working for 40 years.
...the median income in the US is currently $28,500 a year.
This "middle class" ($85k) are actually a feeder class of the rich... a family with two kids earning $85k are only losing out because they aren't rich enough to be exempt from the taxes designed to keep the poor poor.
They suffer inflation tax because they own only one asset (their house)
They suffer income tax because they dont earn enough to be exempt or off-shore.
They suffer education tax (college tuition etc) because the rich have appropriate this form of common wealth (education) lest the poor avail of it.
They suffer stock exchange tax (forced into speculating for retirement, only to be fleeced during stock crashes) because they can't afford insider information; or market manipulation and don't qualify for bailouts.
I'm not dismissing your argument, it's a well reasoned one from your perspective... it's just that your thinking is poisoned by you having bought into the whole charade. Step back and take a realistic look at things.
Just look at your summation:
If the rich, as you claim control the political system, then why on earth would they allow themselves to be taxed at all?
Firstly, the rich owning the political system is not even open to debate... it is a demonstrable fact.
Secondly, the rich don't pay taxes... however they do sometimes contribute just enough "bread a circuses" to keep the poor from rebelling.
Last year, (a bumper year for bonuses) Government Goldman Sachs payed less than 1% tax. What more evidence do you need?
...especially for the benefit of the poor who are dependant on handouts derived from tax revenue taken from the more productive members of society?
...you've got this the wrong way round.
The uproductive rich are dependent upon the productive poor for handouts. The rich surrender only enough of their ill-gotten gains to prevent revolution.
The Luke